Database Users

'Jasjar' with WM 5.0 (Benchnarked) 10x slower than PPC2003SE

Sorry to be the bearer of seemingly bad news, but as I haven't got my Universal yet, I can't help but look for as much info as possible. Even if it ends up negative!
The following link is damning. Someone show me some other results please or explain why it looks so bad. Maybe it's the graphics chip in the dell Axim?
Anyway read this: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,43092&start=4

Full story here: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=365871

hopefully down to patching then :?

I think it comes down to the Benchmarking application. First they need to compile a Benchmarking app for WM5.0 and then and only then compare.
However, let's not forget that WM5.0 reads/writes to ROM which in practical terms is much slower than RAM.
I have not hear an actual Universal owner complain about slowndowns.
We will just have to wait and see, don't you think?
Worst case scenario, I'm sure there will be patches and customizations in this very forums to increase OS performance as is the case of the Himalaya WM5.0 which is much faster than the first releases.
Cheers!
Rayan

No problems here with slow devices, its much faster then my BlueAngel...... :roll:

Appreciate the feedback guys. You've settled my nerves withyour logical deduction. Suppose it was obvious, but panick had set in, especially as I have read on these forums that some people had in fact experienced significant slow-downs in connection with certain 3rd party software. Well thanks again.
What about Activesync? Does anyone out there see this as a problem or do you have confidence in MS that they will update & fix bugs within the near future?

rob_van_triet said:
No problems here with slow devices, its much faster then my BlueAngel...... :roll:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can second that.. its snappier than any other device ive used (ipaq 2210
pda2k, xda2i ,imate jam) this baby is fast
unlike the xda2i where the default running mode was 400 mhz (with optional turbo mode jasjar by default runs on 520 mhz) read that somewhere...

Its just as fast as the xda IIi and in some cases it seems quicker. So it all boils down to what apps you are using.

Yep, much faster than my Jam was, (even though it's VGA, and as such, I half expected it to be slightly slower)
I did find that the WM2005 'beta' of Wisbar Advance slowed it down quite a bit, but I can live without WA until it's been optimised for WM2005.

Faster and Smoother
Jasjar WM5.0 is quite faster then its predecesors and ActiveSync works fine with USB cable and Bluetooth , haven't tried Infra yet.
Overall its a fantastic device to have.

Jasjar is only noticebly slower when you select the smallest text size in the screen options and you're writing using Calligrapher in notepad (possibly other apps that can operate at this high res - 640x480?).
I found it most deinitely slower with Calligrapher; writes much slower to screen; in lower resolution, Calligrapher seems to just print the entire recognised text to screen immediately.

New Jasjar Rom-Seems more stable than ever.Early days still!

Last night I installed the latest ROM from i-mate (my first ROM update ever)...boy was I nervous, but very cautious.
All went smoothly without glitches! Everything seemed fine all day, no hiccups or soft-resets needed. So I thought I'd 'stress-test' the jasjar a bit. So far, I have the following only installed:
Spb Pocket Plus 3.0.1
CA eTrust Antivirus for Pocket PC
DigYs Billiard Master 2
TCPMP The Core Media Player
Resco Radio (Streaming Internet Radio)
**All of the following are currently running:
Wi-Fi is on and active (streaming music and surfing web simultaneously)
Contacts
Internet Explorer (using Wi-Fi)
Word Mobile
Pictures & Videos (Photo slideshow)
Spb Pocket Plus 3.0.1
TCPMP The Core Media Player
Resco Radio (Streaming Internet Radio)
Using my memory indicator on Spb, it reads: 3.8 or 7% available!!!
Is it just me, or isn't this pretty good, considering how many apps are running?
System performance has not degraded either. Just as slow as ever!!! But not any slower!
Whilst typing this, I have had an increase in memory, up to 5%! Everything is still running; movie in one application with sound and streaming music at the same time. Forgive me, I'm going on, but there seems to be more to this picture than, either we know, or we are talking about. The Jasjar is performing fine for what it is and maybe because of it's feature set, we have all expected too much from it. It does actually deliver, albeit not as fast as we'd expect given the speed of well established WM2003SE devices.
Your feedback on this will be greatly appreciated, as I am still somewhat confused as to why there was so little memory installed on the Universal in the first place.
All in all, the ROM update/upgrade, so far, seems to be more stable. But then it is still early days.
mackaby007
ROM version: 1.13.53. WWE
Radio version: 1.03.01
Protocol version:42.36.P8
ExtROM version: 1.13.137 WWE

Where can i download resco radio?
Sound like a cool app.

sharky: It is cool. Enjoy the trial download.
http://www.resco.net/pocketpc/radio/

Re: New Jasjar Rom-Seems more stable than ever.Early days st
mackaby007 said:
Last night I installed the latest ROM from i-mate (my first ROM update ever)...boy was I nervous, but very cautious.
All went smoothly without glitches! Everything seemed fine all day, no hiccups or soft-resets needed. So I thought I'd 'stress-test' the jasjar a bit. So far, I have the following only installed:
Spb Pocket Plus 3.0.1
CA eTrust Antivirus for Pocket PC
DigYs Billiard Master 2
TCPMP The Core Media Player
Resco Radio (Streaming Internet Radio)
**All of the following are currently running:
Wi-Fi is on and active (streaming music and surfing web simultaneously)
Contacts
Internet Explorer (using Wi-Fi)
Word Mobile
Pictures & Videos (Photo slideshow)
Spb Pocket Plus 3.0.1
TCPMP The Core Media Player
Resco Radio (Streaming Internet Radio)
Using my memory indicator on Spb, it reads: 3.8 or 7% available!!!
Is it just me, or isn't this pretty good, considering how many apps are running?
System performance has not degraded either. Just as slow as ever!!! But not any slower!
Whilst typing this, I have had an increase in memory, up to 5%! Everything is still running; movie in one application with sound and streaming music at the same time. Forgive me, I'm going on, but there seems to be more to this picture than, either we know, or we are talking about. The Jasjar is performing fine for what it is and maybe because of it's feature set, we have all expected too much from it. It does actually deliver, albeit not as fast as we'd expect given the speed of well established WM2003SE devices.
Your feedback on this will be greatly appreciated, as I am still somewhat confused as to why there was so little memory installed on the Universal in the first place.
All in all, the ROM update/upgrade, so far, seems to be more stable. But then it is still early days.
mackaby007
ROM version: 1.13.53. WWE
Radio version: 1.03.01
Protocol version:42.36.P8
ExtROM version: 1.13.137 WWE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems that the biggest problem of Jasjar, is memory management, it really let you do nothing with such an unbelivable device, it seems that, after writing to the whole world, expansys, I-mate, various forum, it came out, that HTC, will give a new rom, that will free more than 20 MB to the Jasjar...
When I see it, I'll believe it :twisted:

trendystyle: That would indeed be most welcome! :lol:

Is there any chance a new slimmer ROM would also free up any RAM? I guess I'm hoping the new ROM might load less crap at start up which might save a little room on the RAM.

galt, That's about the only way that RAM could be freed up.
A slimmer ROM, or at least a better compiled ROM...

sub69 said:
galt, That's about the only way that RAM could be freed up.
A slimmer ROM, or at least a better compiled ROM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, I mean, is not said, that I need skype, it's great, but with the RAM in the Jasjar, 4,56MB are far too many to be wasted, they should give a cd apart, and if you want, you install it, if not, you keep your 4 and a half MB free, same story for the antivirus, and backgamon.
Still, I believe that most of the SW, were developped on WM2003 basis and experience, for sure, there will be a better way, to develop on WM 5, using less ram...
In the future, developers of WM5, will have for sure to keep care of that...

Yep, it might take a while though...
It isn't too difficult to get things working on WM5, but optimising them is a bit trickyer especially if you're essentially starting with a WM2003 product and trying to 'tweak' it.
Like you say, when people start developing primarily for WM5, I'm sure we'll see more stable and better optimised software...

sub69 said:
Yep, it might take a while though...
It isn't too difficult to get things working on WM5, but optimising them is a bit trickyer especially if you're essentially starting with a WM2003 product and trying to 'tweak' it.
Like you say, when people start developing primarily for WM5, I'm sure we'll see more stable and better optimised software...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe as soon as WM5 devices will hit massively the market, with the sale of some hundred thousands devices, as everybody knows, the demand raise the offer, still, WM 5 is too young O.S., developpers, have to invest in time and money on something that will give a medium term revenueI remember when XP came out, we had to wait a while, before seeing dedicated applis, and not sidegraded applications from Windows 98

Exactly, fingers crossed for some good WM5-specific software soon!
And here's hoping that SBSH are one of the first with a spanking-new WM5 version of their product. ContactBreeze is hard for me to live without, and PocketBreeze still isn't quite perfect (but then I am using a beta release).

sub69 said:
Exactly, fingers crossed for some good WM5-specific software soon!
And here's hoping that SBSH are one of the first with a spanking-new WM5 version of their product. ContactBreeze is hard for me to live without, and PocketBreeze still isn't quite perfect (but then I am using a beta release).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am having problem with spb pocket plus, they sent me version 3.1, but couldn't manage to install it properly with the latest rom for jasjar

this is a shame for a device costing so much, and claiming to be so much more, and is worse than its predecessor! I cant believe the f***** up on this so bad....did they even use the device themselves after manufacturing it? huh :?

dreamtheater39 said:
this is a shame for a device costing so much, and claiming to be so much more, and is worse than its predecessor! I cant believe the f***** up on this so bad....did they even use the device themselves after manufacturing it? huh :?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's why I am pi**ed off!!
They should said,this is not definitive device with the new O.S., I have 5 mobile phone, a Motorola a1000(not very good), a Nokia 6680(great), atreo 650(very good), a Samsung zh500(fair), all of those phone, but the a1000, deliver what they promised.
But Jasjar is the maximum, it has a maximum price, and I want maximum performances

road n trail
Trendystyle, i think you need to go n find yourself a dirt bike or a road bike, and stop buying the cross over. If you want something that is the best, buy the specialised product, if you want something that does a bit of everything, but nothing well, buy a cross over device.
Settle, be supportive and contribute knowledge, there is no point connecting just to whinge for whinging sake, if we wanted that we'd be talking to our wives instead of typing here.
I too was originally really really "upset" about HTC not upgrading the XDAII, in the end, arguing and spewing didnt get me one step further, but this forum, the knowledge skill and ability of those around allowed me to hack, tweak, rebuild, reformat and structure a device that suited everything I needed and wanted.
I am sure in due course, this forum will do it again. So if you havent got anything nice to say about it, say something to improve it, dont just come here to whinge.

Re: road n trail
simon_darley said:
Trendystyle, i think you need to go n find yourself a dirt bike or a road bike, and stop buying the cross over. If you want something that is the best, buy the specialised product, if you want something that does a bit of everything, but nothing well, buy a cross over device.
Settle, be supportive and contribute knowledge, there is no point connecting just to whinge for whinging sake, if we wanted that we'd be talking to our wives instead of typing here.
I too was originally really really "upset" about HTC not upgrading the XDAII, in the end, arguing and spewing didnt get me one step further, but this forum, the knowledge skill and ability of those around allowed me to hack, tweak, rebuild, reformat and structure a device that suited everything I needed and wanted.
I am sure in due course, this forum will do it again. So if you havent got anything nice to say about it, say something to improve it, dont just come here to whinge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your sugfgestion, but, as everybody say in every forum on the net, before talking, it's better to read around the forum....
So, checkUniversal, thread: HTC & MS are Cruel & Manipulative!I know u visit thi
And then see, if i didn't do anything, I turn upside down I-mate support!

Yep, due to trendystyle's tireless hounding, i-mate have decided they need to release a new ROM....
Let's hope he's happy after that's released, otherwise all hell will be let loose ;-)

sub69 said:
Yep, due to trendystyle's tireless hounding, i-mate have decided they need to release a new ROM....
Let's hope he's happy after that's released, otherwise all hell will be let loose ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
probably they won't allow you to download it, as yours, is the only perfect Jasjar in the market... :lol:

trendystyle said:
I am having problem with spb pocket plus, they sent me version 3.1, but couldn't manage to install it properly with the latest rom for jasjar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've heard SPB Pocket Plus 3.1 seems to be working for most people with WM5 devices (including my JasJar). You may have some other conflicting software?

trendystyle said:
probably they won't allow you to download it, as yours, is the only perfect Jasjar in the market... :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, probably not.

Your unbiased opinion please

Ok perhaps this might be a question that may not be hontestly answered but, in any case I'm going to replace my sony T610 and palm E2 with one single device. Either the HTC magician (128mb) or Wizard. : D
On the wizard I like the wifi, keyboard, edge, not sure about mobile 5. On the magician I like the smaller form factor, speed, standard sd card, price.
I read in mobile review.com that the performance is not so top with the TI processor turning at 200mhz instead of 416mhz of the magician.
http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-wizard-en.shtml
So whats your honest opinion, any regrets, are the benchmark tests correct, whats your real life experiences? or too early to tell........... :?

A good question to ask is, do you really need that top performance ? Do you want a device that has good battery life and does the job with good speed 99% of the time, or something that runs out of battery faster but can display one extra line of text 1/100 of a second faster ?

i had the qtek s110, and replaced it with the imate k-jam and could not be happier.
because of the type of processor the mhz is not as important as it may seem.
i use tomtom navigator 5 and it starts much more quickly than it did before, and i can be listening to mp3's and un-install programs without any dropout from the music.
may seem strange examples but they both should me things were better.
also the keyboard is great for me, as i am too lazy to take the pointer out of the unit to type with.
there are teathing problems but that is our fault for being so impatiant

ok, you have a point about that. but what about video playback with TCMP? in the review, the results were poor. It seems my Tungsten E2 has similar results and thats one of the main reasons that i'm changing it, poor video performance.
In the video index test it placed dead last, and almost last for the pocket quake test. Whats your take? Have you been able to get better results?

I've had my MDA Vario (k-jam) for around 12 hours, and i'm so far not impressed.
Video playback is poopants. (Through TCMP and WMP)
You have to perform some voodoo finger juggling to type
I can't get pocketLAN to browse any more than one folder deep on my PC. (this could be a WM5 related issue though, as my MDAc worked fine doing this)
I cant stream any files what so ever. (WMP says 'parameter incorrect' TCMP says 'file not found')
Lets hope i'm blessed with a little more patience tomorrow.

Hi Mogwai,
I had a QtekS100 and an S110 before my Qtek9100. What do I think ? Very nice tool. It's much better than all the other Qtek I had before. Small, great batterie life, keyboard (very cool for SMS or e-mails), all the possible connections (exept UMTS ). However, I have two complains, first, the processor speed, I would really prefer to have a faster processor (It's connected to my laptop almost all the day, so stand by is not a problem for me), Mobile Navigon is not working properly on it... it's a shame I liked my GPS. Then, my second complain is about memory. It would be better with more memory. I'm used to install plenty of 3rd party softwares and it seems that the memory is fast full......
Concerning the movies, I have some on a storage card... it's nice but don't expect to have DVD quality.
To be honest, if the Qtek 9000 has the same quality without these two "problems", I will go for it :lol:
Mav

Hi Mav,
Thanks for your input. Really dont know why HTC did not put the intel 416mhz processor in the wizard, even if it cpu speed was downgraded. If this is truly a replacement for the magician why leave out something as important as performance for battery life?
I saw the pics of the HTC prophet floating around and it claims to have the intel processor with all the features of the wizard less the keyboard and the magician form factor, THAT would be the phone to have, but not sure if its coming out any time soon, or if it really a new model!
As I am new to ppc's is the wifi surfing experience anything related to surfing on a pc?
mogwai

OK Further to my experience yesterday, i have this to add.
This device (MDA Vario) is so unstable, its unreal.
If i start to stream radio over the 'net through WiFi then do anything else, the audio skips. The loaded MSN, audio skips, stops. device hangs.
Battery Out.
The amount of times i've had to pop the battery in the space of 24 hours is insane.
I'm very very tempted to use my '7 day cooling off period' with T-Mobile, and send the phone back.

Mogwai said:
ok, you have a point about that. but what about video playback with TCMP? in the review, the results were poor. It seems my Tungsten E2 has similar results and thats one of the main reasons that i'm changing it, poor video performance.
In the video index test it placed dead last, and almost last for the pocket quake test. Whats your take? Have you been able to get better results?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not tried quake, and video playback is ok but not a main requirement for me so i'm not so bothered.
one thing i forgot to say between the two, is wifi is great for me and of course the s110 or other versions of it do not have wifi.

Whats not stable the OS? or perhaps there is not enough juice to keep the apps running at the same time. Hope its not an issue with this model. So far leaning towards the wizard, but there may be the S200 or prophet out soon, beginnnig 2006, which seems to have it all! except the keyboard.

Mogwai,
I'm not sure if it's me or not.
I've come from the MDA compact , so maybe i'm expecting too much, but it seems my Vario (k-jam) is very sluggish. I've installed all the apps i used to use on my MDAc.
SPB pocket plus / psshutdownXP / TCMP to name a few...
It's just not performing as well as i hoped.
If i'm on the internet (WiFi), flick out the keyboard do some browsing then flick back and load MSN... it seems to struggle.
I've tried to play videos in TCMP, playback was VERY poor, then the unit hung.
It then seems to get very sluggish and halts.
I can't put up with this every day.
I'm hoping someone will tell me some of the apps i'm using aren't optimised for WM5 and thats the problem.

gazzrenn said:
I've tried to play videos in TCMP, playback was VERY poor, then the unit hung. I'm hoping someone will tell me some of the apps i'm using aren't optimised for WM5 and thats the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm also an MDA Vario owner and while not having all the apps installed that you have, I can confirm that TCMP playback is absolutely fine on my phone.
I don't have a lot of extras installed except for MS Voice Command, Total Commander, PHM Registry Editor and TCMP.
So I guess it's one of your 3rd party apps hogging the CPU. Also, did the soft reset button not work (instead of pulling the battery out in an earlier post).
Cheers,
Andy

Andy, were you playing the file from the phone storage or from an SD card? I was playing from the phone memory, having not bought a card yet.
As a side note, i've taken SPB pocket plus off there which helped a bit, it does seem less sluggish.... and if i'm honest Andy, i didn't know about the softreset button! :roll:
I'll test playback again.

gazzrenn said:
Andy, were you playing the file from the phone storage or from an SD card? I was playing from the phone memory, having not bought a card yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From an SD card (1GB Sandisk if that helps)
gazzrenn said:
As a side note, i've taken SPB pocket plus off there which helped a bit, it does seem less sluggish....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad I haven't tried using that app then - I might have just thought the phone was crap
gazzrenn said:
and if i'm honest Andy, i didn't know about the softreset button! :roll:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I do wonder if there's more to come from TCPMP yet, too: I don't know if the OMAP 850 2D graphics accelerator is supported natively, and if it isn't then it should be possible to push the graphics faster...
So far, I like the device with the caveat that activesync refuses to work with Symantec Security Agent. (Getting rid of that and using Windows Firewall poses no problems...)

I tried my "standard" pocket video test today, the matrix revolution trailer. Average speed in TCPMP 0.7 was 139.32%, 33.44 fps, 571kbit/s from a 24 fps 410kbps file.
Seems to work well

chiark,
Could you try and play that file again from the phone storage?
Video playback on my device (from internal storage) is just hopeless

That is from internal storage - I don't (yet) have a mini-sd card...
Just in case it's something to do with the file, here's the file I use:
http://www.pocketmatrix.com/multimedia/downloads/matrix-rev.ogm
As soon as I get a mini-sd card, I'll benchmark that too to see if it makes a difference.
Are you using TCPMP 0.70?

gazzrenn, I've downloaded this Matrix trailer and run it offf my 1GB miniSD card and it runs perfectly (and is actually quite a good demo of fast moving video on the phone - thanks for the link chiark).
Cheers,
Andy

Sorry, I just noticed you also posted benchmark results. I've done likewise from my miniSD card:
Average speed in TCPMP 0.66 was 142.09%, 34.10 fps, 582kbit/s from a 24 fps 410kbps file.

Wizard Overall Performance... are u satisfied?

I have a Cingular 8125. I bought it only a couple weeks ago, and I have to say that if it wouldn't have been for these forums and all the tips tricks and hacks that are being discovered here - I would have taken this devvice back to the store... I have days when I love it and days when I hate it - but overall I have to say that I just barely satisfied with the performance. It just feels like the OS (wm5) is to intensive for the processor in these devices.... and is it just me ... or does anyone else feel like they also are a BETA Tester for this devices and this platform in general .... cause let's face it - these things are not for everyone - it takes a über-geek like me and you to use one
Anyway, I am rambling, but - share your thoughts...

Yes i am, with it overclocked, upgraded rom and various hacks lol... Plus it gives this forum a boost - most problems are fixable

The 195 Mhz of the Wizard are enough for PDA/phone activities. But it's too little if you want to do more wiht your device. For example, when streaming mp3 via WiFi and then immediately encode to A2DP, the machine CRAWLS.
And it is getting worse with WMV video: it won't playback any QVGA WMV videos, too slow of a cpu (tried both WMP and TCPMP).
So, it depends how you use your device.

the 8125 processor 195/200mhz is just as fast as the Verizon/Sprints Xscale 400mhz process just different chips that clock speeds differently. it's like comparing a Intel Centrino 1.5ghz to a 2ghz mmx the centrino can blow past the mmx chip in a benchmark... but anyway the device is pretty fast being that it's small and can hold a decent battery life.
a lot of people add tons of plugs to there device that really slows it down. crappy coding in a plugin can make the 8125 really slow

I have to concur with phlojo on this: I migrated from a Himalaya (XDA2) & WM2003SE onto an MDA Vario. I was seduced by the prospect of built-in wifi, smaller footprint and WM5, but I have been severely disappointed by speed, memory space and stability. The poor stability is probably due to lack of memory, but there are other 'features' :x that infuriate, like a hit and miss alarm. Today I got 2 at the same time - but I have known it to miss alarms or to lose WEP keys, which is a PITA to type in as you can't paste the key on WM5; you have to type manually.
It was suggested in this thread that these issues were caused by additionally installed user applications. All I can say it that I'm only trying to run the same apps as I did on my xda2 (GPS map finding, opera & TCMP). At the moment I give it 6/10. If I find a smaller memory footprint rom to download, this might go up.
I think those considering the upgrade version of this phone need to check the hardware specs before taking the plunge. I've got this on a 18 month contract, so I'm stuck with it for a while.

running wm5 on a vario is like running winxp on a celeron 700
definatley needs more ram as well

Hi everyone,
I was quite concerned when I went from my Dell Axim x50v to the MDA Vario.
I was worried that the jump from 624Mhz to 180Mhz would be a bridge too far!
And it nearly was.....until I upgraded my ROM to 2.17.x.x, now it is reliable, doesnt randomly reset without warning and the performance is very good.
I use Tube 2 quite a bit and Tom Tom 5.21 and find there is little noticable difference to the Axim.
I am sure media encoding and streamng would be a totally different kettle of fish though - 180Mhz is just not enough for this kind of 'work', I am sure the Axim would struggle with this too!
The question is, is this really what you want to do with your Phone/PDA when theres such good 'tools for the job' such as the Sony PSP?
Mark

as a new user to the ppc scene. i dont really know what to expect. i should be receiving my 8125 very soon..
It set to come stock with whatever cingular puts on it..
any advice from the start? im really new to this whole rom thing so dont know what to do exactly..
ive read on here that overclocking boosts performance?

Im really impressed with mine, it works twice as good as i expected it to and thats with minimal hacks, its not even overclocked
im using the latest O2 ROM and i cant say i notice any slowdowns at all.
as i've said before, it performs so much better than my old XDA IIi and thats a 500Mhz WM2003 device!
i honnestly cant complain about it in anyway ... well 1 thing i spose, the stock headphones are horrible, but they work

Mediocre phone barely useable for business
I came from a kyocera 7135, treo 650 to this phone. I had two purchase 1 program and install 3 third party apps to get the functionality of the 7135 on the treo. As for the 8125 wizard this phone is a toy. I use my phone and pda functionality to the fullest and its just been extremely frustrating. DPAD navigation is a joke if it exists for the application. Phone integration with the PIM is worthless just try to copy a phone to the clipboard it only allows to save as new contact. MS made a big deal of respond to missed calls with an sms on the treo 700. Why exclude that feature on this version. Like everything they do nothing is consistent. My favorite flaw though is something that palm does very well. Hard reset the device and your screwed. Apparently not everything is backed up. You are required to reinstall many apps.
Performance the device has to be overclocked. Its performance isn't even acceptable out of the box.
To make the device usefull you need to overclock, install a few apps for menu navigation, a few progs for system maintenance, upgrade rom, make varios registry changes. If it this forum didn't exist I would have sold the phone bought another Treo.
The device or WM5 is good on two items. Wifi and web browser. Palm droped the ball on this big time although the newest version of blazer is supposed to be much better there is still no wifi.
MS needs to work on their PIM/Phone integration and the dpad for the device. the dpad hould navigate to all controlls and menus on the screen.
anyway just my gripes.
- Richard

I love my Vario. Everyone I show it to loves my Vario. That's even without google maps mobile, which I got working today.
Yes it is slow out of the box, I ran it for my first 2 months at default speed, I only setup overclock a few days ago, but now I have it overclocked 20% 24x7 and it's so much better.
I am totally happy with it. Of course I would love the faster CPU and UMTS and scrollwheel of the Wizard II, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I am happy with the software side. Very happy. It is the first XDA that I can rely on for receiving phonecalls, which afterall is what its for. Hell, its the first one where caller display works properly.
An overclocked XD mini-s plays QVGA videos fine for me.
I bought it knowing it would need hacking, but yeah, were it not for these forums and me being a phone nerd I'd wanna take it back.
I am not happy with hardware. The gap between the botom of te screen and case is appauling. Stuff gets down there, then the touchscreen stops working and its an arse to get out. The stylus falls out and the black paint flakes off.
Also, it randomly fried my 2GB mini-SD card, something which I have never forgiven it for as I still have not managed to replace it. Using this device without a card is impossible. If you have more than 5 photos on it, it constantly comes up with low memory errors.

The main reasons for the dreadful performance are two.
first, the processor has very small data and instruction caches. second, wm5 has this great nifty trick where system calls from a user-space process gets intercepted by the os, run, and then the results go to the process. Or something like that.
Plus, a significant portion of the os and user interface must be .**** i mean .NET which makes it even slower.

I use the custom 2.17 rom available on this site and I'm quite happy with it. Granted, I don't use it's every available feature or play mp3s and video with it often, but I do now and then, either as files or streaming off the web, and it all works fine. I was overclocking for a while but found I didn't really need it and haven't used it since the 2nd or 3rd week I had it. It's definately slower than my old Blue Angel but WM5 is so much smoother in operation than 2003SE which makes up for it. Also, just like with a pc where the keyboard is faster and more convenient than a mouse, the keyboard is much faster and more convenient than the stylus and I avoid pulling out the stylus when at all possible.
I guess everyone's milage may vary but my experience has been a very good one.

Wizard Performance
I must begin by saying that I really love the Wizard after using the ROMs and hacks on this site.
My first Windows device was a n xv6600 with verizon's EVDO network. The xv6600 has a 400 mhz processor. It was very fast but had horrible battery life, poor reception, and had to be soft reset all the time.
When I first got the 8125 Wizard, I almost sent it back. it was slow and locked up often. Next, I tried the Qtek Test ROM which worked better and had A2DP. However, I was still resetting all the time.
Now I'm running Exelencin's 2.17 Custom ROM for TMO. It works very well. The unit performs all tasks just as fast or almost as fast as the xv6600 (Blue Angel) which I still have and use as a benchmark.
I'm hooking up to the Wifi at work and home between 900 and 1200 kbps. That's faster than the EVDO speeds on the Blue Angel. The Wizard streams video from the web very well on Wifi. I'm getting Edge connections through TMO in SLC from 60 to 95 kbps. Though the EVDO is supposedly 3 to 4 times faster, it sometimes takes just as long to download some pages.
I use a ton of BT devices, including but not limited to:
I-PHONO 450RX and MOTO BT820 stereo headsets; Jabra headsets, my HP laptop with BT, and my Audi A6. The Wizard works much better than the Blue Angel. The Wizard even transferred all my contacts directly into the Audi. The BT connections are clearer and work from a longer distance.
I use a variety of foreign language dictionaries, read my mormon scriptures on the wizard. These memory intensive programs actually run faster on the Wizard than the BA. I put all programs on the sd card except one's like voice command which must be in device memory to work well. I also keep all pictures etc. on the mini sd card. Voice command can also be activated with my jabra or moto stereo headsets.
All in all, the Wizard rocks with the right ROM and settings. The battery life is simply outstanding. I can go one to one and a half days without a recharge.
The only time I get the wizard running slow is when I have half a dozen programs running. I wish programs would close when closed. I'm tired of going in the memory settings and shutting down programs I've already closed.
All in all

I have an imate Kjam which I got in MArch this year. I have installed and removed TONS of software and only had to do one hard reset as a result of crap dictionary software. I only have a speed issue when opening large Word docs with tables in it. Otherwise I am a happy camper with my device. I will not use the overclock software as I believe you are looking for trouble.
I will never go back to a regular cellphone now.
I regularly use mortplayer, TCPMP with full feature movies, Media player and Real One Player, and I have NEVER had speed/memory issues.
Remember guys that this little sucker has a DUAL CORE processor!!! It handles graphics BETTER than other faster clock speed processors.
ENJOY!!!

Something else to keep in mind for those with issues with video playback is that the 1.0 version of TCPMP is basically built from the ground up. They are reporting a VERY large increase in speed all round.
Yes you may have to fork over some cash to get all the codecs but for a player like TCPMP I dont think that $20 or so is that big an ask.
Lastly - and something I think is overlooked often - The wizard is a pretty fair phone with good battery life. I bought the unit because it was reviewed as a useable phone, sure I wanted a PPC as well but the phone had to work and not die in 1hrs use.
If all I had wanted was a PPC I would have bought something else, but I hate single taskers and to me the wizard is a great multi-tasker.

Good and bad
After applying a bunch of the tricks available on this site, I am overall quite happy with the T-Mobile MDA, over the Treo 600. I also agree that this site is necessary, but treocentral's forum was necessary, too: every advanced device needs educated users to achieve full functionality.
The biggest nuisance to me is not the speed but the fact that it is not responsive for a long time, 20 seconds or even more, occasionally.
The second biggest nuisance is that I can't search my 700 contacts for a keyword and get an answer in a realistic amount of time. On the palm, that took a couple of seconds; here, even overclocked at 240, it takes 20 minutes. What is with that?
The third nuisance is caps/shift lock, which is mostly that I am used to the Palm method and partly that the palm method makes more sense (turn on sticky with a double press, turn off with a single press of the caps or shift key).
Better things about the MDA: multitasking. wifi. VOIP. Today screen with SPB weather and diary. Runni8ng programs from the mini-SD card. Sound quality (phone and music).

8125 Works Like A Champ
My Cingular 8125 Is absolutely Fantastic...
Previous History...
I had a Samsung x427m freebie Phone and a Used Hp1910 Pocket Pc Off ebay...(150bucks) Did everything I wanted at the time... Played movies encoded at 220bit just fine... Plus I'm Cheap... had games... NES Roms... Mobipocket.... mp3's Liked the 3.5 screen...Kept it for 3-4 years...
8125...MINE...lol
1gb minisd Card
Motorola h500 Bluetooth Handsfree
1 Delux Black aluminum Case...
Firest thing I did was Update the Rom...
Cingular_RUU_225111_BETA_Custom_A2DP_THMS_RNGRS.exe
I knew That I would need to do that Much before I started any Computer geek will tell you you to find the newest Firmware/Drivers...lol
added vjvolubilis.cab to use my motorola H500 Bluetooth Handsfree To listen to music...works good...
Did the Wifi Update so It would actually connect to my wifi... I like WIFI...lol
Kept Wisebar Advanced off... Decided that it Slows up stuff a little, and doesn't like landscape with the only theme I'd actually use...no big deal,
Installed Battery Pack Pro... A MUST HAVE... lets you setup custom little icons to quickly pick application or game to run.... and will let you endtask Without having Wisebar on there... also shows battery time left and memory...
Installed MS Voice Command...
Installed Sprite Backup Another MUST HAVE... Make a quick backup when everything you want is running perfect and everything is installed...
Mobipocket reader Pro.... BOOKS>>>>BEST PROGRAM EVER FOR THIS...
Full Screen, From TXT and other pda formats... Scrolls Best way to Read a book in the Known universe...
TCPMP --- VIDEOS --- Need I say More.... full lenght dvd is about 100mb an hour... at 248 bitrate
Age Of empires Gold ---- Works Good... Good Game.... Still Wishing for AOE2 on PPC
Pocket Tombraider... Works Good... Amazing....
OverClocking Utilities
I've Tested it with the defaults 200mhz 240mhz and 252mhz, seems stable with all haven't compared battery test with them yet
Cingular 8125... Finally SET ME FREE....lol
Music
I still need to Put Pocket Music Player on there... Don't care for Mediaplayer10 but media player 10 works ok...
Movies...
I encode movies from dvd using Lathe around 248 bitrate... Plays them Perfect... without needing to overclock over 200 don't know why anyone would want higher bitrate on such a small screen...
Games - Havn't tried NES yet, but SNES was still too slow...Oh well... I'm fine with Super Mario Brothers 3 --- I'm Still afraid to Remap the phone on and off buttons for games... don't want to miss a call...lol
Tested Battery at 200mhz... thats what I keep it at... looks like playing a movie 248 bit and music and movies, reading, with blutooth off, wifi off,
will give you somewhere about 6-7 hours... WOW... my old PPC only would go for 2h 35min... Oh... the Screen Brightness was at 50% which is what my old pda looks like at 100% and looks great... brightness could go Way higher but not Necessary (wow did I just say that)
Bluetooth... H500... number 2 Handsfree device Cost me 35 bucks including shipping on ebay... Works Very Well When Close to device... Like 7-10 feet...
I use a phone like almost never.... But using the BT to Voice Dial Numbers Is Great...
I was afraid to get this because of the suposedly slower 200mhz processor... what a joke... This is way faster than my old Pda clocked at 300mhz...
I'd say the only drawback is the 2.8 screen, but it seems no to make much difference...
Price... $400 bucks... I bought it New Off Ebay... Unlocked... payed about 50 bucks more than cingular sells it for but keeps me from their stupid 2 year contract... seems worth every penny...
a friend of mine returned hers after about 5 days because she didn't know any computer stuff... had lockup problems because she didn't update Rom... The usuall stuff...lol These arn't for the completely computer illiderate...(at least straight out of the box) But I'd be hard pressed to find a better Device...

I'm pretty happy with my 8125. It's zippy enough for me. I even have Wis Bar Advance 2 loaded along with a bunch of other today plug ins and it's fine at the factory 195mhz clock speed (Though I've recently up'd the clock speed to 228 just because I can, feels zippier w/menus and webpages). It's never frozen up on me, I use Explorer A LOT (3-4 hours a day minimum) for browsing email and webpages at work. I have my Motorola H700 BT headset with me at all times so bluetooth has been turned on since I've had the device. This is the best phone I've had so far. Kicks the **** out of my Treo 650. I was a hardcore Palm user (Owned many Clie's and a Treo 600+Treo 650) and it took me a lot of convincing to "try" the 8125 but now I'm just in love with it :wink:

Why do we need Athena if Universal Crossbow is already amazing!

Hey mackaby007,
How could you move from Universal Crossbow to Athena at the moment? I find that for a few days of using crossbow, it's exceptionally responsive, also it's a better and more stable ROM compared to WM5. I noticed right away the extra performance and fast synchronization, Better multiple SMS features, No Longer memory Leak problem(So I don't have to keep soft resetting), Reliable Installing/Uninstalling software, Elimination of occasional pauses problem.
Just the mean of justifying Athena purchase now.

jlingo said:
Hey mackaby007,
How could you move from Universal Crossbow to Athena at the moment? I find that for a few days of using crossbow, it's exceptionally responsive, also it's a better and more stable ROM compared to WM5. I noticed right away the extra performance and fast synchronization, Better multiple SMS features, No Longer memory Leak problem(So I don't have to keep soft resetting), Reliable Installing/Uninstalling software, Elimination of occasional pauses problem.
Just the mean of justifying Athena purchase now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree too WM6 on UNIVERSAL is really good, but there are things Universal can't do, but Athena could! e.g. GPS, extra Rom, Micro Drive, bigger screen.
Personally, i really thing the 5 inch screen is a plus, you can fit so much more info on one screen, i used to think Universal screen is big enough, but after using Athena for almost a month, Universal's screen look really quite small to me.
And also i think the design and built quality of Athena is better then Universal as well.

wu5262 said:
I agree too WM6 on UNIVERSAL is really good, but there are things Universal can't do, but Athena could! e.g. GPS, extra Rom, Micro Drive, bigger screen.
Personally, i really thing the 5 inch screen is a plus, you can fit so much more info on one screen, i used to think Universal screen is big enough, but after using Athena for almost a month, Universal's screen look really quite small to me.
And also i think the design and built quality of Athena is better then Universal as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perfectly said Wu. Just to add to that.....WM6 is a great O/S, which makes the Universal great for a while longer.....but Athena blows it clean out of the water in every way!! Therefore Athena (best device IMHO) coupled with WM6.....= cutting edge mobile technology with the richest hardware feature....simply no competition IMHO.
It's like comparing the Wizard with the Hermes....same form factor...different device/technology alltogether.

wu5262 said:
I agree too WM6 on UNIVERSAL is really good, but there are things Universal can't do, but Athena could! e.g. GPS, extra Rom, Micro Drive, bigger screen.
Personally, i really thing the 5 inch screen is a plus, you can fit so much more info on one screen, i used to think Universal screen is big enough, but after using Athena for almost a month, Universal's screen look really quite small to me.
And also i think the design and built quality of Athena is better then Universal as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Wu,
May I know how can you fit more information in one screen compared to Universal? Isn't Universal and Athena essentially the same resolution 640x480, therefore technically you see the same amount of information only bigger size?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks,

jlingo said:
Hi Wu,
May I know how can you fit more information in one screen compared to Universal? Isn't Universal and Athena essentially the same resolution 640x480, therefore technically you see the same amount of information only bigger size?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes that is basically right, but don't forget because Athena has bigger screen, you can really change the font size to smallest and is still visible, (so small font in Athena = Medium font in Universal). This way you can fit more info on one screen, you can also change the icon and everything to smaller one.
For opera it's the same, browsing through internet is so much better now.

jlingo said:
Hi Wu,
May I know how can you fit more information in one screen compared to Universal? Isn't Universal and Athena essentially the same resolution 640x480, therefore technically you see the same amount of information only bigger size?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The next of my concern would be the battery life. How much better is the battery life in Athena compared to Universal? Let say if you work on documents with lowest backlight on continuously in universal would last you for 5 hours but perhaps 8hours in Athena?
Thank you guys for the encouragement.

jlingo said:
The next of my concern would be the battery life. How much better is the battery life in Athena compared to Universal? Let say if you work on documents with lowest backlight on continuously in universal would last you for 5 hours but perhaps 8hours in Athena?
Thank you guys for the encouragement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would say Athena's battery is truly amazing, personally i think it's much better then Universal. I have not work on documents that much on my Athena, but for day to day normal usage (read news, make calls, send message, play games, GPS), with Bluetooth and 3G always on, with backlight set to highest, it can easily last for 1 day.
Stand by time is good too, i have my athena beside me when i go to bed (battery level is 70%) . Wake up in the morning and is still 70% !

I have virtually every device that HTC have made; So far the Athena (My one is a dopod U1000) is the best so far. It is by far the most usable that i have come across. The screen is Wow and best of all the phone is so dam stable. BT works across all profiles, all my software works, I am a heavy user of the phone both voice and data, I must admit as a very heavy user by the time i get home my battery is like around 40-50%, possibly also because all my apps are on the microdrive. (TomTom runs so fast installed on the MD that when i installed the Maps on the SD card the difference was unacceptable compared to the MD) TBH when i got my Universal it was a little disappointing (way too slow did not support HSDPA), and no soon as the TYtn was released i upgraded. The tytn is also a great phone but the screen size is too small compared to the Universal. The Athena Rocks! best HTC device I have had so far..

i agree with you faisal. I do a lot of remote oncall support for my office and my athena has now completey replaced my bulky laptop, allowing me to connect to my office whenever, wherever I am.
The athena offers a much better and user friendly screen size, although much bigger than the tytn, its size certainly outweighs the annoyance of having to scroll all the time.
To most people the athena is massive but after using it for a week i find myself liking it more and more, as I have said it has now more or less reduced my on call laptop to a brick in the corner gathering dust.

faisal.husain said:
I have virtually every device that HTC have made; So far the Athena (My one is a dopod U1000) is the best so far. It is by far the most usable that i have come across. The screen is Wow and best of all the phone is so dam stable. BT works across all profiles, all my software works, I am a heavy user of the phone both voice and data, I must admit as a very heavy user by the time i get home my battery is like around 40-50%, possibly also because all my apps are on the microdrive. (TomTom runs so fast installed on the MD that when i installed the Maps on the SD card the difference was unacceptable compared to the MD) TBH when i got my Universal it was a little disappointing (way too slow did not support HSDPA), and no soon as the TYtn was released i upgraded. The tytn is also a great phone but the screen size is too small compared to the Universal. The Athena Rocks! best HTC device I have had so far..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey faisal, nice to hear you enjoy your device so much, me too here ! just wonder when you say you install all app on Micro drive, do you come across any problem at all? any more battery drain? And also when you say TomTom on MD is much faster, how much faster is it? I have install mine on SD and it seems really fast as well. (e.g. Load up TomTom in 5 sec, GPS signal in 10 sec, route planning in 7 sec).
After all, will you suggest me to move all my app to MD?

wu5262 said:
Hey faisal, nice to hear you enjoy your device so much, me too here ! just wonder when you say you install all app on Micro drive, do you come across any problem at all? any more battery drain? And also when you say TomTom on MD is much faster, how much faster is it? I have install mine on SD and it seems really fast as well. (e.g. Load up TomTom in 5 sec, GPS signal in 10 sec, route planning in 7 sec).
After all, will you suggest me to move all my app to MD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wu5262 (got it right this time.) I have not had any issues yet running software from MD, even spb shell, which should be installed on main memory works perfectly installed to MD. In regards to TT6, you will notice the difference when switch to browsing the map, play about with the zoom and pull the map up and down, you will notice it redraws much quicker when run from MD compared to SD. As virtually everything runs from MD there is more drain. Average usage (I use HSDPA a lot, do a lot of browsing with opera and use Sling box viewer an average of 2 hours a day so thats streaming TV via HSDPA, an average of around 10-15 txt and at least a total of 45min worth of calls (not all at once)) with 100% charge at the start of the day by the time I get back from work around 6.30 7.00 pm, my battery indicator is between 50-60%. I have not found it an issue yet where I get worried that i may not have enough charge to last till the end of the day. For back up I use WM5storrage to mount the drive and then run a Robocopy script which does differential copies, so I do a backup every day of my MD which takes on average less than 2 minutes every day.

faisal.husain said:
Wu5262 (got it right this time.) I have not had any issues yet running software from MD, even spb shell, which should be installed on main memory works perfectly installed to MD. In regards to TT6, you will notice the difference when switch to browsing the map, play about with the zoom and pull the map up and down, you will notice it redraws much quicker when run from MD compared to SD. As virtually everything runs from MD there is more drain. Average usage (I use HSDPA a lot, do a lot of browsing with opera and use Sling box viewer an average of 2 hours a day so thats streaming TV via HSDPA, an average of around 10-15 txt and at least a total of 45min worth of calls (not all at once)) with 100% charge at the start of the day by the time I get back from work around 6.30 7.00 pm, my battery indicator is between 50-60%. I have not found it an issue yet where I get worried that i may not have enough charge to last till the end of the day. For back up I use WM5storrage to mount the drive and then run a Robocopy script which does differential copies, so I do a backup every day of my MD which takes on average less than 2 minutes every day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the info, i will keep that in mind, maybe next time when i upgrade i will install everything to MD.
One more question, do you have any issue with spb mobile shell? does your spb menu load up correctly? mine one don't load up straight away, i need to point here and there to get it to work. when it finally loads up, all my sound is gone.
I have heard other people having the same issue as well, might to do with landscape VGA. Anyway, i have disable the spb Menu to load up from startup folder and only use the mobile shell plugin.
Your one working with spb menu?

wu5262 said:
thanks for the info, i will keep that in mind, maybe next time when i upgrade i will install everything to MD.
One more question, do you have any issue with spb mobile shell? does your spb menu load up correctly? mine one don't load up straight away, i need to point here and there to get it to work. when it finally loads up, all my sound is gone.
I have heard other people having the same issue as well, might to do with landscape VGA. Anyway, i have disable the spb Menu to load up from startup folder and only use the mobile shell plugin.
Your one working with spb menu?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, got the same problem with spb menu.

I have the same problem with SPB shell, how do you disable the sob menu from the start up menu? which files do i delete?
thanks

faisal how do you install SPB mobile shell to the MD as when i install it it doessn't give me a choice where to install and only installs on the main memory.
thanks

bashi007 said:
faisal how do you install SPB mobile shell to the MD as when i install it it doessn't give me a choice where to install and only installs on the main memory.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm weird, I will test it again, but am certain it gives me a choice

bashi007 said:
I have the same problem with SPB shell, how do you disable the sob menu from the start up menu? which files do i delete?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
go to windows/startup and delete the spb menu there

Hi faisal, when you installed your Tomtom did you let it auto start from the SD card and then copy everything over to your MD or did you use Activesync to move all the setup files to your MD first?

Yes, I have to agree U1000 is so damn stable. It's probably the most stable and the most problem free out of many PDA's that I have used before. It's much more stable than Universal. And that's for sure. All my softwares are indeed working flawlessly. Bugs problems that I used to experience under Universal WM5 seemed to have already been ironed out completely. It's the most mature WM5, which is very impressive IMO.
At the moment, I'm reluctant to upgrade to WM6 in June unless they offer similar stability which I doubt it after knowing Microsoft for a long time.
Well I was having a lot of problems with Universal WM6 and Vista, Office 2007, WDMC. Synchronization problems, Slow Word processing problems, partnership problems, Contact notes disappearance and many others...
I'm so happy that I bought U1000 after so many considerations.
faisal.husain said:
I have virtually every device that HTC have made; So far the Athena (My one is a dopod U1000) is the best so far. It is by far the most usable that i have come across. The screen is Wow and best of all the phone is so dam stable. BT works across all profiles, all my software works,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Me too agree...just superb...