Related
I'm really tired of all the complaining and bickering going on in this forum lately.
It's getting out of hand.
Especially from **** heads that didn't show their faces until after the hard work was done. Those that don't show up when the forum needs something but only show up when they need something.
Where were you when we were collecting money?
Instead of complaining, did you ever think to ask some of the leaders in the forum, what you could do to give back?
Where were you when we were testing? All we needed was $5 from a few people but all I see is more cheap bastards that want free stuff and expect it to be PERFECT. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Think of it this way...if you bricked your device after 20 other people have successfully "patched" it, then something else is wrong. Work with people in the forum to figure out what. Keep a cool head. We know how tough it is to spend high dollar on a device then have it not work...but you use solutions here at your own risk so it's not the developers fault IT IS YOUR FAULT. Learn to post based on other postings. Don't yell and start complaining. I'm not a developer myself but contribute in other ways. If I was a developer I would leave this forum because of the verbal abuse. STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY!
Read the forum. Most of the **** has already been done. I'm not upset because people are asking questions due to not understanding something along your research. Don't get me wrong, the forum is here to help people and it's helped me a lot. I'm upset because of all the bashing going on lately. It's getting out of hand. I'm also upset because many of you that are actually benefitting from these solutions didn't show your faces until all the hard work was done. Don't tell me you couldn't afford a measly $5 or to contribute your time in some way or ask the people involved...what can I do to give back to the community I leech from.....you get my point.
Note, I'm not going to respond to ANYONE regarding this thread. Just chill the out and let's work together. If your device breaks, READ and try to educate yourself first instead of blaming the developer who took time to contribute their knowledge and provided us with a solution we needed or wanted. If you don't like how things are going....GET INVOLVED WHEN YOU NEED TO...DON'T COMPLAIN BECAUSE YOU'RE USING A SOLUTION SOMEONE WROTE ON THEIR FREE TIME TO HELP YOU OUT! MY GOD PEOPLE!
If you think you might get upset, mess your phone up, or otherwise...JUST DON'T USE THE SOLUTIONS POSTED ON THIS FORUM PERIOD.
If the above doesn't make sense...oh well. Needed to get that off my chest. I'm not a writer either so if it's all mashed together, oh well. If you're smart enough you'll get my point. If not, then just ignore the thread and go on.
Well Said ltxda. If only people would listen could curb their emotions a bit and apply logic sometimes....but then we are emotional beings.
Well I agree anyway. Everything is done at your own risk in these forums...and while we are at it...you know complaining about complainers and so forth...
..has anyone actually bricked their device (rendered it 'dead' or incapable of being restored somehow)...you know killed it?
I don't recall anyone having had that experience since... say...Olipro's unlocker. Point being...it's safe for all...and that was the intention of the SPL patch in the first place..whether simple to use or not.
C'mon friends...let's close the divide eat some humble pie together and get back to the business of progress and development...I'll leave that last bit to the devs.lol
If it helps I'll go first...Sorry if I offended anyone of late.
I meant that BTW. If it it's not good enough..sorry the offense ran so deep...sorry again.
OK...back to business
Developer Midget_1990 should be getting his X7500 within the next few days hopefully. We wanted different variants of the Athena to ensure there any and all solutions would definitely work across the board.
Custom ROMs coming soon.
Why don't we put our heads together to finalize/agree on the wish list of software that should be incorporated into the ROM/Vanilla ROM?
Has anyone found any VGA converted files for the Kaiser plug-in .cabs? That would be nice.
well said lt.. well said...
Agree with all these comments and want to add my take on the situation. All of us were newbies at some point (except for Oli I guess), and we have all been there. I remember sweating the first time I made a registry change.
1. We need to be a little patient with newbies. We want them to become a part of the community, not drive them away.
2. Saying "Just use search" or "See the Wiki" isn't always helpful. Sometimes relevant threads are 20+ pages, hard to sift through all that and figure out what is really the **** and what is some lame-ass crap from some poor soul who is as clueless as me. And have you actually looked at the Athena Wiki lately. Not much there. I would feel more sympathetic to the dismissive tone if the Wiki were more up to date. (I know, that's me too!)
** Tip for newbies, go to Advanced Search, select just the Athena forum, and search by post not thread. That may help narrow things down.
ON THE OTHER HAND:
3. I'm pretty cautious in making major changes. Flashed my Wizard ROM probably 4 times in over a year... and still waiting to flash my Advantage. I appreciate the brave souls who will flash weekly or more, I learn a lot from you guys. But I don't have the time to constantly set things back up over and over, so I wait for an upgrade that I feel confident will do what I want. Plus I know my limitations, if something really terrible happens I'm not smart enough to quickly recover. I read everything there is to read before doing anything major.
SO WHY IS IT THAT SOME PEOPLE TAKE HOME A NEW DEVICE AND FLASH AWAY WITHOUT READING A DAMN THING? Then cry that they bricked their phone? (probably not) How can we get the message of BE CAREFUL across? Look before you leap, etc. Maybe there needs to be a sticky at the very top explaining who should be messing with what. Maybe every link to a ROM should have a warning label. Something.
Sorry to go on. I really appreciate the expertise on this forum and enjoy being able to contribute in some small ways. But we need a more civil tone. I hate to see things deteriorate.
"I was once like you are now, and I know that its not easy,
To be calm when youve found something going on.
But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything youve got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not...."
Cat Stevens...
I think XDA-DEV is the best forum I ever seen about HTC devices. So many
thoroughbred horses here, and everybody involved in management knows how hard is to keep them working together ... Forget Customer Relationship Management
Keep this discussion clean (language, flaming et.al.). I understand the frustration, but bickering in the forum (or anywhere) is pointless.
jwzg said:
Keep this discussion clean (language, flaming et.al.). I understand the frustration, but bickering in the forum (or anywhere) is pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Sorry I lost it again.
thx for cleaning up the unlocker threat.
It took a while before the Hermes forum to start getting crazy. I don't have my device for a week yet and there is already a lot sh*t among members already. For the Athena, I thought this would not happen until WM7. Anyway, let's get along people.
Bickering and namecalling
I think some of the newer guys should also look in the historie of things. The hermes forum had simmilar issues with jasjamming. For lot of the developers it not just someone asking a question, but another one asking the same thing. It's can be very frustrating, and some handle it better than others. I think it's safe to say that Olipro doesn't hadle it very well, and vents his frustration at the one asking the question. Wether i agree with him or not i do understand him.
As for the people asking questions. First search if your question hasn't been asked before... If you can't find it search again.
Give as much information as you can. Be specific about versions you use. Give the output of the software you get.If you're aked to give information you have given before, just give it again. Remember you are the one wanting help, so make it easy to help you, don't make the other one search for information.
And remember one thing: Free software is often provided "as is". No guarantees and no support. Assume that if it goes wrong, that you are on your own. Any support given is a bonus. Having said that, you'll find that there are enough people willing to help as long as you are patient and polite (or at least civil).
Can remove simlock from HTC Rose and from any other HTC device.
This service is not free.
You will get unlock code in 5 minutes to 72 hours.
It will costs 50$ = 38$ by donation to xda-developers.com - http://forum.xda-developers.com/donations.php
Please send me a Private Message for details.
P.S. you do not need to reflash, disassembly, hard reset your device!
??????
What the.... again? TRYOG what can you say? MDA III here we go again.
Haven't I said enough...?
The only way to stop this, is to stop xda-developers...
But xda-developers means a lot more to me than tupisdin, so I think we can't stop this guy from what he's doing.
But, at least, I'm happy I did my job to humanity and tried to show everybody what kind of ugly monster tupisdin is,
even though the mods didn't get the motivation to move their lazy ass and kick him out.
O.G.
Maybe there is a reason
I think some mods are friends of tupisdin, and the income he earn they get a percentage, is that possible?
That, and i did not see anyone else post some of the most important Pre Release roms the last year more then Tuspidin.
XDA is not a forum about suspicions and conspiracies.
It's an obvious Win Win situation for all members.
Tuspidin gets the satisfaction of helping out XDA and users get affordable Sim Unlock and the latest apps from PreRelease Roms.
Please do not start another debate about this, The Moderating Team and Admin have already debated this and a division has been made by the Site Admin and was communicated with Tuspidin.
So Since Tuspidin is not being "kicked out" i hope you can respect that decision and Shut Up Already.
I'm certainly not getting richer nor are any moderators.
Calling someone an Ugly monster in any case is something we can't have it's a personal attack we don't allow.
Please refrain from using these terms.
And Luckily Moderators know better then feel attacked when being called Lazy asses after removing Spam, Warez and preventing conflicts that have nothing to do with what XDA is intended for, but it doesn't make friends.
It's only normal that Moderators just accept to be called whatever people want to call them, right?
So i'm only giving a warning about the first remark aimed at Tuspidin, but i can't promise any other Mod might feel differently about the lazy part. The Warning goes for both of you two as it clearly looks you like to Team up when you go beat on someone.
If you want you can help Moderators get of their Lazy ass at this thread:
SPAM Users
Nice to know about an unlocking solution! Maybe you guys which are not happy with the offer will give as a free solution. In the meantime we can use this one...
Do you so alswo CID unlock ?
Unlock works with the EMOBILE S22HT version of the Rose as well?
http://emobile.jp/products/ht/s22ht/
Noonski said:
That, and i did not see anyone else post some of the most important Pre Release roms the last year more then Tuspidin.
XDA is not a forum about suspicions and conspiracies.
It's an obvious Win Win situation for all members.
Tuspidin gets the satisfaction of helping out XDA and users get affordable Sim Unlock and the latest apps from PreRelease Roms.
Please do not start another debate about this, The Moderating Team and Admin have already debated this and a division has been made by the Site Admin and was communicated with Tuspidin.
So Since Tuspidin is not being "kicked out" i hope you can respect that decision and Shut Up Already.
I'm certainly not getting richer nor are any moderators.
Calling someone an Ugly monster in any case is something we can't have it's a personal attack we don't allow.
Please refrain from using these terms.
And Luckily Moderators know better then feel attacked when being called Lazy asses after removing Spam, Warez and preventing conflicts that have nothing to do with what XDA is intended for, but it doesn't make friends.
It's only normal that Moderators just accept to be called whatever people want to call them, right?
So i'm only giving a warning about the first remark aimed at Tuspidin, but i can't promise any other Mod might feel differently about the lazy part. The Warning goes for both of you two as it clearly looks you like to Team up when you go beat on someone.
If you want you can help Moderators get of their Lazy ass at this thread:
SPAM Users
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's been a long time since I haven't visited this website.
And I was an active user.
(You know why I don't visit this website as often as I used to.)
I've helped people and people have helped me.
I've gained knowledge and people gained knowledge from me.
For example:
I was the first to write a tutorial about how to change the language on an HP iPaq 514.
The mods won't mention my help and win-win situations, would they?
Nooooooooo... And I don't want it.
But, if you are going to show me the help tupisdin gave you and forget about mine, then I will have to say that YOU are the guys who choose sides & attack people.
You are the guys who sold this websites fun & social part for money
Not us.
Now, there is less development, less fun, etc.
The only thing more is MONEY
Now, I hope you saw my love for this website in the past.
And you've ****ed it up.
P.S. MOD: Nobody's teaming up with me.
I've had something to say and people are agreeing with me.
They give their own opinions about a subject.
I can't find a rule about "shutting up about tupisdin" in the forum's rules.
The only reason I've shut up about tupisdin was, because my friend tom_codon asked me to.
P.S. 2.:
Mods, you can warn me all you want, you can't make me lose 1 thing I care about.
+ You guys play dirty and if you are going to continue, I'm going to play dirty, too
Bye.
// O.G.
MOD EDIT
please don't try to hijack someones thread.
thank you
people!
i want to unlock my new Rose i received a week ago so i PM this topic starter but he don't react. So i search further and came by the website:
http://www.unlock-now.com/
those people are very fast and cheap. so for everybody who want to calculates his unlockcode you can go to them.
This is only a tip i don't have any relation with this site. i only found the service very quick and cheap.(€17,50).
marshallmaster said:
people!
i want to unlock my new Rose i received a week ago so i PM this topic starter but he don't react. So i search further and came by the website:
http://www.unlock-now.com/
those people are very fast and cheap. so for everybody who want to calculates his unlockcode you can go to them.
This is only a tip i don't have any relation with this site. i only found the service very quick and cheap.(€17,50).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I have used them a number of times. if anyone finds anyone cheaper, please post
This thread is a complete and utter nonsense.
Two advertisements, nothing useful.
Just like this board is for more than 3 years now.
LOL.
What about development, eh?
Just lamers everywhere.
itsme, we miss you.
crusher said:
This thread is a complete and utter nonsense.
Two advertisements, nothing useful.
Just like this board is for more than 3 years now.
LOL.
What about development, eh?
Just lamers everywhere.
itsme, we miss you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no idea what you are talking about
this thread was to identify ways to unlock. commerical unlocking is the only thing available and two members have confirmed a supplier who works
.................
Sorry for not answering for a long time. I was on holidays.
Please send all requests by P.M.
Its informative!! i got my HTC Rose s743 by unlock code and i got it from Mobile-unlocker and got unlock code from them and unlocked my mobile..
Thread closed. Long gone!
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums.... if that had been a "we love HTC thread" would that have been closed?
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissastifaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
mikechannon said:
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturaly attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get usefull threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
Monty Burns said:
Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums....
We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker.
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissatisfaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction.
And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturally attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get useful threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer.
Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response.
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have doubts about this device then don't buy it. You will be severely disappointed. If you have not taken time out to test drive one before putting your order in then, with respect, more fool you.
Finally, moderators on here bend over backwards NOT to close threads or be seen as censoring debate. However we have to keep a balance and if, in our judgment, a thread is getting out of hand or no longer has any value nor serve any useful purpose then it will be closed.
All the best,
WB
as you've quoted inside of quotes you have made it really dificult for me to "quote" back - nice job! (although i suspect not deliberate).
"We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker."
Yeah ok. So the very big majority of Winmob market phones are produced by HTC, this site is dedicated to HTC (and historicaly Winmob).... do you REALLY think they don't read these forums? Really? Honestly? Are you sure?
"Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction."
I agree. There are SOME who want to gripe. There are a ship load more who want to make a device work but can't, no matter the support they get from the community - random users suffering from the SMS bug for example? The very fact most of these people have googled/have knowledge of these forums, means that they have at least gone to some effort to resolve an issue. So yes some, but a VERY small number. So, how can they air the frustrations they have? where? Maybe the most expansive and read HTC forums... thats a good place to start!
"And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract."
*sigh* .... ok .... i'll come back to this but, i did quote, if you really want me to link to a thread closed in the past 10 minutes other than i already quoted your mod. I will.
"Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer."
Yeah ya know, it was a developers site years ago.... its not any more and hasn't been for a long time. Its a cookers and users site now. If you still think HTC don't read this forum then .... The sites success over the years can also be its greatest strength if you let it.
Now this isn't a problem of the site itself, more one with many reviews and fanboys of ALL phones, Iphone, HTC, Nokia....
"Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response."
Trying out a phone is a shop is a VERY diferent affair to OWNING one. Any person will know that, sadly though, many of us have to go by the reviews and forum comments that are available and try to filter out what may or may not be fanboy. Magazines, forum posts, personal reviews, blogs are all individual and very personal. Saying that someone should have reviewed more is simply not fair. Its impossible. Try asking your local O2 shop if you can take a phone away for a couple of weeks to try?
Hold on .... yes you can!!!! And that was the point of the last thread that got closed! Your fellow mod closed a thread which wasn't actually personal to anyone and (from a personal fed up with moaners point of view) I was trying educate people who purchased there phones in the UK that they had a bucket load of rights. If they are not happy, and it was purchased from the uk, then please "turn it in!" and return it.
Now from my pov, i'm a londoner (can you tell?) but i work all over the world. Currently im in Durban (yeah I was there at the test match! and met the England team) but out here they dont have the HD 2 so, I have to go on the reviews etc. Some people out here will spend near on £600 getting it imported from Expansys UK (ummm .... co.za) and other sites.
also..
Can i provide evidence? No. It was not made public so all I can assume is that if I PM a mod, things will be closed:
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can i provide more evidence than that? I'm not privvy to your private messages. The previous line though backs up my "love HTC or go away" argument to a small extent:
mikechannon said:
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think you guys, having helped, actually almost pushed HTC to where they are should now use your position and be .... responsible(? maybe a bit strong)) ... finaly get off the HTC only band wagon. Let them know that the stunning products they produce will no longer be accepted only 90% complete.
Ok. Lets be realistic. I ain't gona change your minds on anything and I don't want you to rebel against HTC as they make amazing hardware but, at least, in the position you have got.... maybe create a "if your gone B*&% and let off steam, do it in this thread?" thread? Maybe, just maybe there will be a common thread in it that HTC will finaly get to grips with .....?
Oh, and i've had a tytn, tytn 2 and having had both of those replaced under warranty i thought... no! Poke it! And had a tosh g900 when most people couldnt even spell 800 res screens and then foolishly went to a TD. That was refunded quickly under sales of goods act. Have an Acer M900 but due to the fact i'm living in south africa and i purchased that under my company contract, i now need to replace next week when im back in the UK. I was looking at a Milestone but the exchange support is rubbish at best. So, I have a week to try the HD2 or return it as not fit for purpose.... I do however, really want it to work!
And one final word.... my best winmob device without a device? Well two actually .... the Samsung Omnia and the baggage reconciliation devices i'm working with at the new Durban airport (what??? its not just a PHONE O/S!!!!??)
My opinion.
Here's an example of 2 threads.
MY HD2 IS THE WORST FONE ON THE PLANIT
I bought this fone for £x000 dollars and it should do everything I can ever imagine, rite out of the out of the box. I am disgusted that HTC expect ME to fix their problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SMS didn't send
Hi everyone.
I tried to send a text message to my friends earlier and it's stuck in my outbox. Does anyone know why this might be? Does anyone have a suggestion as to what I should do about it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
johncmolyneux said:
Here's an example of 2 threads.
This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
Monty,
You are a Londoner eh? I should have known. You lot are nothing but trouble makers!
First off sorry about the quotes within quotes; didn't realise it stopped you from quoting back. Now that I do...
OK, lots in your post that I could come back on in detail but I won't because I'm the sort of chap that likes going forwards, not looking back in self pity or whatever.
The one thing that you have suggested, and you are not the first, is that we think on somewhere where people can let off steam WITHOUT cluttering up the forums. As you know there is some work going on as to how best we can restructure the place to make it better. Can I ask you to be a little patient while all this gets worked through.
In the meantime, think on the following:
- Help us to support people who need and want help and please be robust about those that don't but just fancy a moan and upsetting people on here without ever really wanting to seek help or to help themselves (the word Troll comes to mind).
- If you look at the Development & Hacking forums you will see that Development is stronger than ever and does not change what this place is all about. The work of the chefs is recognised and appreciated, and you can argue that is also development so 2-0 there.
- Lets all try to be a little adult, constructive and get along a little. I can tell you that, from a Mods perspective, we really want to be doing other things to make people's lives on here better rather than spending time closing threads down because people just can't have a little respect for each other. I often wonder whether anyone ever reads the forum rules.
Finally thank you for keeping on the straight and narrow re this thread and not going off the rails and getting it closed.
WB
jakem said:
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree mate (hence the support in said thread raised by [★] yesterday.)
I find this site a ridiculously valuable source of information when I need help with my phone, and I find it disheartening to have to wade through complaint after complaint just in order to get to constructive discussions.
If I wanted to live in troll city, I'd pack all my stuff into boxes; call a removals company; do some browsing of estate agents and property letting agents; check the reputation of the areas I was interested in and then guess what.... MOVE TO TROLL CITY!
I'm a placid guy generally, but some posts really make me struggle to just not tell the OP where to go.
+9999999 recurring to real constructive users of this site.
-9999999 recurring to trolls (and we know you don't think you're a troll, but you are.)
Monty Burns said:
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms then they should definitely speak their mind. They would be wrong though to go to a forum that supports uses of brand x condoms and slate them. A support forum is for support.
OK first, no idea who Martin is. (Its Monty spelt the wrong way - doh)
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
Monty Burns said:
OK first, no idea who Martin is.
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
To be fair, those "I hate this phone" ranting type threads really do spiral into a hate fest or at least the few I've seen. If a topic is interesting and you comment on it, and go back later to see how it develops when all that is left is just insults, it has no use to most if not all.
johncmolyneux said:
I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Argh! I'm not a god!!! (although I think I am, with my size 9 shoes... bow down before me!)
Seriously, maybe a good idea. I guess in an odd way this may complement (orb3000s?) the other thread vote about should it be HTC or not site? We don't know you server statistics of course but, we can hope that we can get to the stage where we can give our opinion on HTC honestly..... ( i wanted to deleted that and not type it as its not fair, i think we can, mostly ).
In my view its like a really cool manopoly. The games fun to play for almost all of us (i may/may not include myself in that after 2 years HTC abscense on next Friday) but for some it really sucks cos they keep losing.
I would think that moving it to an adult discussion of the real benefits as us users see if you become "open" but, we have no idea of the server costs... only you guys do.
(you do of course know that pressure will mount and mount and mount with regards to non-HTC phones. Your not silly Samsung, LG, Acer.... to name but a few know that the serious money is in smart phones in the next few years, not feature. In Slough o2 test 150-200 meg 4g phones a couple of weeks ago )
From what I understand, this is a developers forum. i.e. look to the potential rather than to the faults as is.
There are far too many distracting threads along the lines of "the virtual keyboard is killing me", "my wife left me because of the battery life", "the pink camera issue made me kill my neighbour". These type of threads may have valid points but they are all a bit melodramatic and really don't serve the purpose of the forum very well as they fan the flames of discontent rather that rise to the can-fix mindset. Despite what the trolls (for want of a better word) might like to say, this isn't a fanboi site, it's for those who realise a problem and want to solve it, simply just improve things, or just want to tweak things just because they can! I'm sure most of us here are all too aware of the shortcomings of Windows mobile software, just as we recognise the potential & strengths of this platform.
Speaking as a self-confessed technophile I will admit to spending an not inconsiderable amount of hard-earned money on utter crap i.e. gadgets that promised so much, yet delivered so little or were simply just badly executed. The HD2 is non of these, it's a stunning piece of design & engineering. It's not perfect, for example: the sharp edges of the camera lens annoy me a little, but it doesn't induce a desire in me to vent my spleen to the world.
I'm optimistic, I hope to survive longer than my HD2 and maybe via this forum HTC will hear my concern for this non-life threatening design flaw and engineer a more ergonomic lens cover for the next mobile phone I get. If they don't, it will undoubtedly leave a microscopic void in my life, but I'm strong enough to move on and no doubt the HTC designers will burn in hell for their tardiness.
xda-developers is what is says and is a great community that helps us get the best from these intriguing phones, so please diss the efforts of those who contribute and recognise that enthusiasm is a far better fertilizer for technology than manure.
Besides that, looking at my HD2 I've just noticed that it's going to be wet & windy at "My Location" tomorrow. That's fifty miles away and I'm not even going there, so it's a win for me!
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
- XDA is a space meant for collaboration and sharing information. Use it for that
- XDA is not a chat room. Posts just to thank or put down another user do nothing to help its purpose (There is a reason for the "Thanks" button).
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything.
- USE THE SEARCH TOOL and HAVE A LOOK AT A FEW PAGES of the thread of interest before posting the question .Likely you will find your answer and it helps PREVENTING threads from reaching the aforementioned 300+ pages, of which maybe like 30 pages actually contain INFORMATION.
- REMEMBER that what you are getting, you are getting for free. That applies both to stuff developed and put up on XDA, be it ROMS, tweaks, patches, whatever and to the wonderful people behind XDA - moderators, etc... whose work is often forgotten. If we as users can't be expected to read through all posts in a forum, why should we expect mods to have to act as if they had the time to do this?
- Having said that, if you like a development/tip/tweak, whatever, use the thanks button and leave it at that. If you don't like something, leave it at that. Posts to the effect of "You are God" or "You sleep with the devil" do nothing but mess with egos. And this forum is about messing with mobile computing platforms, not egos.
TO MODERATORS
- Please refrain from deleting threads. If they get out of hand (and they sometimes do) I humbly suggest that you (a) close them and/or (b) ban any offending users, albeit if only temporarily (aka "suspension").
For all the crap that may have gotten into a thread, most if not all threads contain a lot of useful information that may/will get lost if the thread is deleted. so the non-guilty parties get shafted as badly as the guilty. And I prefer to think that the majority of users are actually interested in moving things forward.
- Just an idea - but rather than having a simple requirement to have an account to post, would it be possible for you guys to set up a system whereby certain forums could only be posted to by users of a certain seniority - and preferably with a distinction to starting new threads or replying to existing threads.
Following on to this, I believe that the seniority requirements can be improved in a relatively easy way - maturity comes from experience, which is not necessarily related to # of posts (any fool can type 30 irrelevant posts in a day). What would you say to a system where, in addition to a minimum # of posts, a user needs to have been a member/at his previous seniority level for a certain amount of time? That should not be too difficult to implement and would help people get into the feel of things before blabbing off. Short tempers usually can't hold off a couple of weeks/months...
- THANKS for this great place!!!! Your efforts are too often forgotten.
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
"
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything."
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
If people respect the rules then good things happen
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
-PiLoT- said:
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
-PiLoT- said:
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
acmbc said:
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
yes but sometime sits the steps that people need to take since people will not read the rules
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the last lot of threads were closed not deleted
Crocodile1973 said:
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
some posts are deleted during a routine thread cleanup
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
-PiLoT- said:
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kudos to that. If it's been tried and not worked, my bad.
acmbc said:
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
TO MODERATORS
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
svtfmook said:
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Trip's work, heck, I even use it on my phone these past months.
There's a post I made in "News about current circumstances" thread that explains my point extensively.
Also, I know it in my gut that he will be back for sure.
You know why?
He feeds on publicity and Modaco forums are too low-populated for his huge ego.
I hope though, that upon his return he will be much more sophisticated and reasonable,
for the sake of every one here.
One can always dream...
PS: I was a 14 year old girl 10 years ago and, man, I'm telling you, I was a major drama queen.
I want to believe I've grown out of it though.
I really think the ideas from the original post would be used in some way at least. Good post OP. Hope xda considers this. There are some great ideas here.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
hello all i have found some intersting project :https://github.com/bkerler/edl
however this thing is not well documented im sure some expertes know about it already so i need some clarifications on what it does.... thank you
wasted-potential said:
hello all i have found some intersting project :https://github.com/bkerler/edl
however this thing is not well documented im sure some expertes know about it already so i need some clarifications on what it does.... thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really sure how to explain this in an XDA friendly way, so I'll explain it to you the way I did to a friend that didn't even know about XDA.
"XDA is public, it's friendly, supportive and helpful. With guides and files that you find on XDA, if something goes wrong, there is generally already a safety net in place to help you recover. Devs on XDA generally don't post things until they're "ready for the end user" and if they do, you get things like "[WIP], [UNTESTED], Your warranty is now void!!!, I'm not responsible, Flash at your own risk and I need testers". So being on XDA can be fun and exciting, almost like having a NERF gun war with a group of friends. -- Bkerlers EDL project, in a way is kind of the same thing, except the safety net has been set on fire and a bed of nails is now underneath it, your group of friends have all left you to play alone, and when something goes wrong and it's time to go back to war you realize that your NERF gun has become a water pistol, and your friends are now the enemy but with LR-300's, M4A1 Carbines, Barrett .50 Cals and Galils, oh, and your water pistol is also empty."
That toolset or project, whatever you want to consider it, is the real world. I'd call it a developer tool. Those devs on XDA that a lot of us might recognize by name, that are working on multiple devices at the same time, and that also bring you things like root, bootloader unlocks, bypasses, hacks, mods, modules, and safetynet bypassing, might use that toolset in some rare cases, but they might also vehemently advise against, and probably even protest an "end user" playing with it, if they even acknowledge it at all. XDA has the community guidelines to discourage inexperienced users from doing things that they don't understand, because 1). the devs here aren't earning a regular salary to sit around and give "Exploitation, Development & Flashing on Android Devices 101" guides and 1 on 1 walkthroughs to every noob that wants to get flash happy, 2). There is the possibility of liability if things like that become very public and are used incorrectly, for the wrong reasons, or some Dev trying to be a good Samaritan accidentally creates the real world equivalent of Raul Menendez. 3). Laws are different everywhere, and in some places that toolset might even be illegal and teaching someone how to use it could be a crime or "an act of terrorism". If you do decide to use it, it's definitely under the "do so at your own risk" section, and I doubt that you'll find someone on XDA willing to throw out their reputation to help you if you fall into trouble. If you're interested in the risk, while I'm not actually recommending anyone do this, pirating Nintendo ROMs is probably equivalent, except you don't have to worry about ruining your expensive hardware. The possibility of the FBI knocking on your door is still there though, depending on your search history and all. xD
PM me, please start with proof reading for spelling mistakes and then tell me what your experience with Android and Android development is so I know how to talk to you.
alucardetat said:
I'm not really sure how to explain this in an XDA friendly way, so I'll explain it to you the way I did to a friend that didn't even know about XDA.
"XDA is public, it's friendly, supportive and helpful. With guides and files that you find on XDA, if something goes wrong, there is generally already a safety net in place to help you recover. Devs on XDA generally don't post things until they're "ready for the end user" and if they do, you get things like "[WIP], [UNTESTED], Your warranty is now void!!!, I'm not responsible, Flash at your own risk and I need testers". So being on XDA can be fun and exciting, almost like having a NERF gun war with a group of friends. -- Bkerlers EDL project, in a way is kind of the same thing, except the safety net has been set on fire and a bed of nails is now underneath it, your group of friends have all left you to play alone, and when something goes wrong and it's time to go back to war you realize that your NERF gun has become a water pistol, and your friends are now the enemy but with LR-300's, M4A1 Carbines, Barrett .50 Cals and Galils, oh, and your water pistol is also empty."
That toolset or project, whatever you want to consider it, is the real world. I'd call it a developer tool. Those devs on XDA that a lot of us might recognize by name, that are working on multiple devices at the same time, and that also bring you things like root, bootloader unlocks, bypasses, hacks, mods, modules, and safetynet bypassing, might use that toolset in some rare cases, but they might also vehemently advise against, and probably even protest an "end user" playing with it, if they even acknowledge it at all. XDA has the community guidelines to discourage inexperienced users from doing things that they don't understand, because 1). the devs here aren't earning a regular salary to sit around and give "Exploitation, Development & Flashing on Android Devices 101" guides and 1 on 1 walkthroughs to every noob that wants to get flash happy, 2). There is the possibility of liability if things like that become very public and are used incorrectly, for the wrong reasons, or some Dev trying to be a good Samaritan accidentally creates the real world equivalent of Raul Menendez. 3). Laws are different everywhere, and in some places that toolset might even be illegal and teaching someone how to use it could be a crime or "an act of terrorism". If you do decide to use it, it's definitely under the "do so at your own risk" section, and I doubt that you'll find someone on XDA willing to throw out their reputation to help you if you fall into trouble. If you're interested in the risk, while I'm not actually recommending anyone do this, pirating Nintendo ROMs is probably equivalent, except you don't have to worry about ruining your expensive hardware. The possibility of the FBI knocking on your door is still there though, depending on your search history and all. xD
PM me, please start with proof reading for spelling mistakes and then tell me what your experience with Android and Android development is so I know how to talk to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you so much this was both entertaining and useful,i learned alot "menendez is up for revenge"
good job