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Hello,
as here in Austria the market leader Mobilkom Austria is opening up HSDPA *NOW* I'd be keen to know if the HTC Universal is technically able to use this advanced 3G coding scheme with just an update of the radio firmware!
This question also goes to anyone from HTC, who is surely also reading here.
I think this question can be ultimately answered by yes or no.
Anyway, my thanks in advance.
HSDPA is a pimped up version of UMTS and is backwards compatible with UMTS. HSDPA supports 1.6Mbit while UMTS supports 384Kbits. Any Universal device that connects to the HSDPA network will connect at 384Kps, the maximum speed that is technically possible for a Universal device.
However, as other companies such as T-Mobile Netherlands have done, they *may* limit their UMTS connection speeds to 64kbps for cheap flat fee subscriptions and 384kbps for full price UMTS subscriptions. What they would do with HSDPA subscritions I do not know.
So, NO the Universal devices will not be able to be upgraded to HSDPA, since this would require a hardware modification, not a software upgrade.
but, YES, the Universal will be able to connect to HSDPA networks, but only at UMTS speeds.
Thanks Wiz for your swift (only 10mins after my posting) and concrete reply.
The strategy of T-Mobile NL is interesting. Didn't know about that.
I'm not sure I agree, I think technically it may be possible that a radio upgrade could support HSDPA (I hope so) as various other vendors have announced software upgrades. (eg Acer on their notebook range)
Afaik UMTS and HSDPA are use the same base technology.
wamatt said:
I'm not sure I agree, I think technically it may be possible that a radio upgrade could support HSDPA (I hope so) as various other vendors have announced software upgrades. (eg Acer on their notebook range)
Afaik UMTS and HSDPA are use the same base technology.
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Click to collapse
I am afraid you're wrong there. HSDPA support has two components. A hardware component and a software component. While manufacturers may decide to add HSDPA hardware support in their devices from the beginning, they often (may) decide to wait providing the accompanying software support until Telcos have provided their requirements in protocols etc.
Since the Universal devices have no hardware support to accomodate HSDPA, a software upgrade would be impossible (and useless)
I guess it could roughly be compared to the days the faster modems were coming out, and all the older PCs turned out to have too slow serial ports and too small buffers (UART chips) to accomodate the higher transfer speeds. There, the hardware support was not available either, so while you could go and connect V-anything to your PC, all you would get was corrupted dataflows
Wiz said:
Afaik UMTS and HSDPA are use the same base technology.
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Click to collapse
Since the Universal devices have no hardware support to accomodate HSDPA, a software upgrade would be impossible (and useless)
[/quote]
That is indeed a pity since the Universal successor (with HSDPA) is only planned for 2007 release and HSDPA will be available next week where I stay.
Well, since HTC are currently struggling even to get UMTS support sorted, HSDPA for the time being will remain out of reach for now .... sorry
hspda
hspda in the USA will never work USA uses the 1900mhz frequency for HSPDA the universal uses the 2100mhz band
Wiz said:
Well, since HTC are currently struggling even to get UMTS support sorted, HSDPA for the time being will remain out of reach for now .... sorry
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Colonel, SiliconS & Gajet please note.....
Even though I am not using the latest ROM but I am using the radio 1.06.00 ROM the UMTS aspect seems fine (okay not good with weak signals compared to my O2 3G datacard) on my XDA Exec.
the universal does not support hdspa as it has a MTM6250 chipset. Perhaps future universals will be made with the MTM6260 which does. rgds:
http://www.cdmatech.com/docs_details/chip_tool/chip_results.jsp?chip=29&chip=27&chip=26
HSDPA and the UNIVERSAL ?
AT&T/Cingular are in the process of rolling out their HSDPA network and a handful of cities are using it; NOW is the Universal capable of this....I asked a similar question about the UMTS 1900 MHz being activated so it could be used in the states; Granted I was given some very good replies but I am still curious. Over the past week I have been talking to some other engineers in my field and have found that a great number of things are possible with the Universal, it has the architecture to support this, SUPPOSEDLY ! Now lets look at UMTS as a whole; then HSDPA ! HSDPA is a software upgrade to existing UMTS software, that's all ! SO is it possible that we can have HSDPA on the Universal with an upgrade to the radio stack, I think YES !...and the bands should also be able to be activate, current UMTS 2100 MHz to 1900 MHz so it becomes dual band...the other is the GSM 850 band ! That apparently can be activated !...HOW is the big questions....Most of the HTC is limited by software; not hardware...its existing hardware has been built with scalability in mind...I just hope that some one can figure out the radio stack updates to facilitate this functionality !
PabloPicasso - no and no
universal is limited to 2100mhz and non-HSPCA. look at my link above
colonel said:
PabloPicasso - no and no
universal is limited to 2100mhz and non-HSPCA. look at my link above
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according to your above link, the uni does not support SDIO !!! but in reality it does
Re: HSDPA and the UNIVERSAL ?
PabloPicasso said:
I asked a similar question about the UMTS 1900 MHz being activated so it could be used in the states;
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I just wanted to make a comment on this point. From what I know, which in all rights is limited, UTMS standard is characterised by two channels. An upstream and a downstream. In order to meet UTMS specifications the following would have to be met:
"The specific frequency bands originally defined by the UMTS standard are 1885-2025 MHz for uplink and 2110-2200 MHz for downlink."
This means that when North American countries move to this standard, wouldn't the Universal work 'as-is'?
I obtained this information from wikipedia by the by.
Lirathal
Hi all!
T-Mobile is working on their new, so called: "HSDPA-Ready Network". And since I'm having the T-Mobile provider in about 2 months, this really sounded interesting.
I suppose you all know HSDPA is high-speed (1mbit+) internet, but for as far as I know the Qtek 9100 doesn't have HSDPA support.
Maybe a stupid question, but will this support ever come? Like a firmware upgrade, or is this HSDPA-function really in the hardware?
Thanks in advance!
Rik
Like UMTS (which HSDPA is an upgrade of), it needs specific radio hardware, so no dice for our Wizard. The HTC Hermes, successor of the Wizard, will support UMTS and HSDPA.
Ah, thats a shame...
Thanks anyway!
also don't expect 1mb/s from the service in the first couple of years until they get some competition from others. it is like cabl modems. from day 1 they could go 18MB/s but because DSL couldn't compete they never opened up the extra bandwidth. Cingular set theirs to operate on average just above that of Verizon's EVDO network. i.e. 300-500Kb/s. still 3-5 times the speed we get now with lower latency, but no 1mb/s either.
Koksie said:
Like UMTS (which HSDPA is an upgrade of), it needs specific radio hardware, so no dice for our Wizard. The HTC Hermes, successor of the Wizard, will support UMTS and HSDPA.
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with the hermes will it support us, tmo and cing, frequencies of hsdpa. i know that the hsdpa network, like gsm, can operate at different frequencies so i was just wondering if the planned rollout of the tmo and cing networks will follow the same frequency requirements as the rest of the world...
joecartoon22 said:
with the hermes will it support us, tmo and cing, frequencies of hsdpa. i know that the hsdpa network, like gsm, can operate at different frequencies so i was just wondering if the planned rollout of the tmo and cing networks will follow the same frequency requirements as the rest of the world...
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Click to collapse
you are correct in that the EU's freq is different than ours for UMTS. I can't remember the freq's off hand though. it is annoying that this happens so often.... here's to hoping that world phones remain world phones even for umts freqs.
In europe it runs on the 2100 Mhz band, in the USA on 850 or 1900 Mhz
so it would make sense fo the phones to work world wide since the GSM used both of the us frequencies and in EU they have to add the 2100 freq.... again here's to hoping.
since this is supposedly quad band would you think that being so it would support the us version of HSDPA?
the wizard will never do hsdpa as it can't do UMTS which is the basis of hsdpa. HTC Hermes is the wizard replacement that does hsdpa.
I am very confused. my phone does not connect to 3g AT ALL.I have tmobile in usa in new york and I tried changing the settings in my phone options from gsm to wcdma and default the umts to 2100 and my phone stays on searching for service.. Can anyone help me out?? I want to be at 3g speeds not gprs... tmobile gprs is way too slow and it only works on GSM mode.. How do i connect to 3g with this phone? I updated my radio from 1.15 to 1.18 and I am getting the same exact results. This thing is driving me crazy, it just doesnt make sense.. someone please help me out, id greatly appreciate it
EDIT: Nevermind, i realized all of us HTC UNIVERSAL users are completely screwd because USA Supports only 1700-1900 Bands and the HTC UNIVERSAL only uses 2100mhz Bands.. NO 3G HTC UNIVERSAL IN THE USA. THIS SO SUCKS MAN.. =.-(
jxs714 said:
I am very confused. my phone does not connect to 3g AT ALL.I have tmobile in usa in new york and I tried changing the settings in my phone options from gsm to wcdma and default the umts to 2100 and my phone stays on searching for service.. Can anyone help me out?? I want to be at 3g speeds not gprs... tmobile gprs is way too slow and it only works on GSM mode.. How do i connect to 3g with this phone? I updated my radio from 1.15 to 1.18 and I am getting the same exact results. This thing is driving me crazy, it just doesnt make sense.. someone please help me out, id greatly appreciate it
EDIT: Nevermind, i realized all of us HTC UNIVERSAL users are completely screwd because USA Supports only 1700-1900 Bands and the HTC UNIVERSAL only uses 2100mhz Bands.. NO 3G HTC UNIVERSAL IN THE USA. THIS SO SUCKS MAN.. =.-(
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From what I have read on the Internet and speaking to a well knowledged person at a T-Mobile store the 1700 & 2100 AWS will be deployed in the United States. This is the same technology used in Europe on the 2100 UMTS WCDMA frequency. The T-Mobile representative had mentioned that New York City was using the 1700 AWS UMTS Frequency for voice & data but will also be deploying the 2100 Frequency later this year or early next year which last year T-Mobile was the highest bidder at the AWS auction and had also purchased this frequency but which originally the 2100 frequency was used by the government only for satellite transmission. Once the 2100 Frequency is deployed your radio will search for and if available find the 2100 frequency and connect to it automatically. You do not have to get a different sim card like AT&T which you have to purchase a 3G sim card. I am also anxious to get that frequency but is not yet available in my area. The best radio version is 1.15.
very very interesting... i cant wait till that comes then..
Park said:
The best radio version is 1.15.
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I disagree, usually with most software the higher the version number the better, and there is no evidence that 1.18 is any worse than 1.15 at all. I've been using 1.18 for around 1 year with no problems.
I was use a lot of times for search wcdma network name in shanghai , beijing or hongkong.
first , you need insert USIM card ,not SIM card to handset.USIM card is Support reg to WCDMA or GSM network.
Park said:
From what I have read on the Internet and speaking to a well knowledged person at a T-Mobile store the 1700 & 2100 AWS will be deployed in the United States. This is the same technology used in Europe on the 2100 UMTS WCDMA frequency. The T-Mobile representative had mentioned that New York City was using the 1700 AWS UMTS Frequency for voice & data but will also be deploying the 2100 Frequency later this year or early next year which last year T-Mobile was the highest bidder at the AWS auction and had also purchased this frequency but which originally the 2100 frequency was used by the government only for satellite transmission. Once the 2100 Frequency is deployed your radio will search for and if available find the 2100 frequency and connect to it automatically. You do not have to get a different sim card like AT&T which you have to purchase a 3G sim card. I am also anxious to get that frequency but is not yet available in my area. The best radio version is 1.15.
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You're post has been the most insightful writeup in regards to T-mobile US 3G I've ever came across, Many thanks!
Are our Universals compatible with the new T-Mobile 3G network in the US? Ive searched the internet, some say no, others say yes....
ATLDON said:
Are our Universals compatible with the new T-Mobile 3G network in the US? Ive searched the internet, some say no, others say yes....
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Click to collapse
Well I don´t know in USA, but in México with my Uni I can´t connect to any 3G network as Universal has only for Europe and Asia networks, I think is the same for your country, shame...
orb3000 said:
Well I don´t know in USA, but in México with my Uni I can´t connect to any 3G network as Universal has only for Europe and Asia networks, I think is the same for your country, shame...
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Interesting.......no tweaks?
Just have to see....3G won't be available in my area until the beginning of the year anyway
UPDATE:
T-Mobile 3G works on my I-Mate Jasjar in the Jacksonville Florida area. The only adjustments I had to make was a minor MMS settings change.
Anybody in the northwest US able to connect to T-Mobile's 3G network?
I try to force my band to WCDMA and specify the UMTS freq as 2100, but then it simply doesn't seem to want to register with the network. When I set it to auto, it appears to simply be using GPRS.
Somewhat related, anybody know of a way to force displaying an icon indicating EDGE vs default GPRS connection?
Edit: I just recalled that there's no EDGE support on the Uni, unless I'm mistaken, so disregard that...
Edit (again): So if I'm understanding this properly... The Uni only operates on UMTS/WCDMA/whatever 2100, not 1700, which T-Mobile US uses. It was designed for uk/other 3G usage, not future US 3G usage. So we've got 3G support outside the US, but as far as I can tell - we shouldn't be able to use 3G in the US, at least on T-Mobile's network, since they're using 1700 mhz band/AWS range, and the 2100 mhz band used elsewhere is not compatible. I THINK. I'm honestly just learning about this sort of thing now as I go, despite having had my Uni for a while and having known about T-Mobile rolling out 3G coverage for some time.
ATLDON said:
UPDATE:
T-Mobile 3G works on my I-Mate Jasjar in the Jacksonville Florida area. The only adjustments I had to make was a minor MMS settings change.
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Could you give some more details on this?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the deal is basically, as postulated by orb3000 - no 3G for US Universal users.
I was told by a T-Mobile rep on the phone that if I can connect to 1700 or 2100 mhz band, I should be able to use 3G... So I wonder... Huh.
GRiM_BoB said:
I was told by a T-Mobile rep on the phone that if I can connect to 1700 or 2100 mhz band, I should be able to use 3G... So I wonder... Huh.
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Ive heard not all areas have 3G on both bands. Probably your area doesnt have 2100 mhz yet.
ATLDON said:
Ive heard not all areas have 3G on both bands. Probably your area doesnt have 2100 mhz yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So can you confirm if T-Mobile uses 1700/2100 as:
1700 down/2100 up
1700 voice/2100 data
1700 OR 2100?
Because I've seen a lot of different things saying different things. =/
Incidentally, please go to http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed and tell me what speed you get on your phone.
GRiM_BoB said:
So can you confirm if T-Mobile uses 1700/2100 as:
1700 down/2100 up
1700 voice/2100 data
1700 OR 2100?
Because I've seen a lot of different things saying different things. =/
Incidentally, please go to http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed and tell me what speed you get on your phone.
Click to expand...
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T-Mobile uses 1700 AND 2100 mhz bands....sent and recieved data ARE NOT SPLIT between the two bands.....voice and data ARE NOT split between bands.
Ill check my speed tonight when I get off work....
I can see the difference between 3G and GPRS though. I have a HTC Wizard that supports EDGE, and my Imate JasJar is only slightly faster than my Wizard. My girlfriend has the new Mobile G1 and her 3G speed run rings around my Imate JasJar internet speed this is probably so because the age of our Universals.
3G Coverage U.S 2100 Frequency With The Univerisal
ATLDON said:
T-Mobile uses 1700 AND 2100 mhz bands....sent and recieved data ARE NOT SPLIT between the two bands.....voice and data ARE NOT split between bands.
Ill check my speed tonight when I get off work....
I can see the difference between 3G and GPRS though. I have a HTC Wizard that supports EDGE, and my Imate JasJar is only slightly faster than my Wizard. My girlfriend has the new Mobile G1 and her 3G speed run rings around my Imate JasJar internet speed this is probably so because the age of our Universals.
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I have a Qtek 9000 and am waiting for the 3G coverage for my area with T-Mobile which should be in the spring of 2009. Over the past few years I have done a great deal of research on this and have also spoken to very knowledgeable Tier 3 T-Mobile staff that are familiar with this and this is what they told me. The universal will work on the 2100 frequency with T-Mobile. T-Mobile will be using the 1700 & 2100 frequency bands in the U.S. for 3G frequency. I know when I visited my relatives in Germany in 2004 Year in the summer as I can speak, read & write German as good as English even though I am first generation in the U.S. which I visit my relatives every 5 years and due to visit them in the summer of 2009 year. The 2100 band was already released in the spring of 2004 year in Germany. But since T-Mobile has only certain cities available that have the 3G coverage in the U.S. which is spotty at this time. Since the T-Mobile G1 was deployed in October this should make the rollout faster in the U.S. for the 1700 & 2100 mhz frequency. Can you please confirm on your I-mate Jasjar on what your 3G speeds are? They should be at least 384 k.p.s. It is also nice to know that the send & receive data, voice & data are not slit between the two bands of 1700 & 2100 mhz frequency.
MobileSpeedTest.com
533.35 KB/sec
Park and ATLDON, thanks for all the info - this is all very good to know, and great news for US Universal users. I'll just have to wait for 3G 2100 to be active here in Portland, then.
Oh, and ATLDON - one more question. Under your Phone Settings, where you can select GSM and UMTS band and Network Type, did you set it to Auto, or force UMTs, or did you even change anything?
GRiM_BoB said:
Park and ATLDON, thanks for all the info - this is all very good to know, and great news for US Universal users. I'll just have to wait for 3G 2100 to be active here in Portland, then.
Oh, and ATLDON - one more question. Under your Phone Settings, where you can select GSM and UMTS band and Network Type, did you set it to Auto, or force UMTs, or did you even change anything?
Click to expand...
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I have it set on Auto.
this is interesting stuff, i just got my jasjar as an anniversary gift from my girlfriend and i love the device however anyone that has used HSDPA which i had on my kaiser before i sold it 500-900k going to GPRS has been something that would make one want to cry, and its good news to hear this because i need some form of high speed again, and i'd like to confirm this working because i am going to get a t-mobile prepaid or flex paid sim ASAP to get this going, i am in new york anyone from around here to confirm 2100Mhz?
also anyone able to do a screenshot ?
Funny, I was just trying to get an answer as to whether or not there was a delay in deploying 3G over 1700 vs 2100 mhz to a given area, and I ended up being told "definitively" that unless my handset is able to connect to both freqs, I would be unable to utilize 3G access. CONFUSION. I think there are some disconnects between staff at the T-Mobile customer support, and I haven't really gotten much further than what I would imagine to be tier-two tech support.
I trust in ATLDON's success story, so... Maybe I'll just have to wait and see.
Do you get a 3G indicator somewhere in the taskbar or system tray when you're connected? And what was the MMS setting you had to change? What server are you using for net access? Do you have the $6/mo T-MobileWeb access or one of the other plans?
Sorry for all the questions, just very curious and hopeful that I would soon be able to really use my Uni.
GRiM_BoB said:
Funny, I was just trying to get an answer as to whether or not there was a delay in deploying 3G over 1700 vs 2100 mhz to a given area, and I ended up being told "definitively" that unless my handset is able to connect to both freqs, I would be unable to utilize 3G access. CONFUSION. I think there are some disconnects between staff at the T-Mobile customer support, and I haven't really gotten much further than what I would imagine to be tier-two tech support.
I trust in ATLDON's success story, so... Maybe I'll just have to wait and see.
Do you get a 3G indicator somewhere in the taskbar or system tray when you're connected? And what was the MMS setting you had to change? What server are you using for net access? Do you have the $6/mo T-MobileWeb access or one of the other plans?
Sorry for all the questions, just very curious and hopeful that I would soon be able to really use my Uni.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 3G indicators don't work on the 6.1 Roms I use. I havent tried any of the WM 5 roms to see if their indicators work
The MMS connect, I had to change it from T-Mobile MMS to the Internet to send/receive multimedia.
I have the 19.99 unlimited data plan.
I use epc.tmobile.com
Are there any other US Uni users in different areas who can report 3G connectivity?
Thus far I've found my own interactions with T-Mobile tech support to be thoroughly useless in getting any sort of details on AWS/3G/2100mhz deployment (maybe I'm just not talking to the right people?)
So, a couple weeks later (and still impatient ) - anyone else in the US with a Universal able to access T-Mobile's 3G network?
ATLDON said:
MobileSpeedTest.com
533.35 KB/sec
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Interesting. 3G has a maximum of 384Kbs to get faster you need HSDPA which AFAIK the Uni does not have...
i would like to know as well i am going to be off of ATT by the 10th of January and i am in nyc i would really like to know so i can make the switch ASAP
Can I use the european HD2 in Japan?
They are the same, arent they?!
I ask, because last time I had a UMTS phone with me and I heard only UMTS will work. Data spec doesnt mention UMTS anymore.
Please forgive me my "no no knowlege" in bandwith..
If anything expect GSM will work, I am safe
Didnt look what kind of network it used last time..
Oh come on..
Somebody have to know it
Cant think of the possibility that this question is too hard for xda pros
I have used my HD2 in Tokyo with no problems. It is a quad band on the GSM freq 850/900/1800/1900, but the 3G (HSDPA) is on the 900/2100 freq. 2100 is what Japan and Korea use, and I have used it in both places.
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd2-2957.php
iarapilot said:
I have used my HD2 in Tokyo with no problems. It is a quad band on the GSM freq 850/900/1800/1900, but the 3G (HSDPA) is on the 900/2100 freq. 2100 is what Japan and Korea use, and I have used it in both places.
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd2-2957.php
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Are all HD2 around the world 900/2100? It seems USA isn't using this band for 3G, or is it?
Do you get HSDPA in Japan?
alex fung said:
Are all HD2 around the world 900/2100? It seems USA isn't using this band for 3G, or is it?
Do you get HSDPA in Japan?
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Click to collapse
No, USA doesn't use 900/2100.
See Here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands
but there's no way to get JP support or input on HD2