Database Users

Win2k5 - Platform Builder, Post comments here please

Anansky, with your experties and knowledge please look into the possibilities to run win2k5 on the magician. I am sure everyone here is willing to help in any way possible. YOU ARE OUR LAST HOPE!

Re: Once more, windows 2k5 ANANSKY HELP US!!!
andrew_sh said:
Anansky, with your experties and knowledge please look into the possibilities to run win2k5 on the magician. I am sure everyone here is willing to help in any way possible. YOU ARE OUR LAST HOPE!
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Maybe it's worth to put a price on such desires I would have been happy to pay HTC for $$$ for an upgrade, but they appear to foolishly expect me to buy a new device (not happening, almost sold my unit on ebay but canceled the auction as it's still a good device). I'd personally pay someone 50 bucks if they got it up and working to an acceptable level. I'll pass the collection tray...

Yes, thats how we all feel. I'm sure our device is capable of running WM2k5 and that is what i can't understand. By the way, has anyone seen anansky recently?

andrew_sh said:
Yes, thats how we all feel. I'm sure our device is capable of running WM2k5 and that is what i can't understand. By the way, has anyone seen anansky recently?
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Yep, and the Magician would have only just passed it's 6th month aniversary when it was announced it wasn't gettin WM2K5. Talk about planned obsolescence. And before anyone says it's only got 64MB ROM, HP announced that their model that has 64MB ROM *is* getting WM2K5 so it's clear that HTC just want to milk our wallets some more.
Sure, I wouldn't mind so much if the existing OS got a few things fixed and tidied up a bit but fat chance of that, the cash cow has already moved in. I'm not purchasing any more Pocket PC related heardware/software until this situation is sorted out (anyway, I've bought all the 3rd party apps I need now). I feel like any additional dollar I put into this market will only serve to support it's current structure and I have more principle than that. Of course, like I said, I am more than happy to pay for an upgrade, but I find it incredibly extravagent to fork out another small fortune for a new device. I'm not going to play ball, roll over, set, beg and pay at HTC's mercy Toshiba really alienated it's users over lack of upgrades before and it's interesting seeing companies continuing that trend because us geeks just keep on buying no matter what :roll:
Anyway, what is it exactly that everyone feels is needed that WM2K5 provides? For me it is a better dialing interface, I'm not particularly fussed about the non-volatile storage as the Magician has a good enough battery life to make charging a non-issue for me. Perhaps we should all start up various open source projects to improve WM2K3 to get ourselves better returns on our investments (hey, I guess that's what's been going on here for ages now anyway, hehe)? I've personally been eyeing off the dialer interface in WM2K5 and think it looks a lot more logically laid out for single handed operation.... Hmmmm.... nice project... :lol:

I just bought a magician to replace my XDA2 and i'm happy enough with WM2003SE (which i only just flashed to my XDA2) as it's stable and does everything I need. Bar some interface improvements WM2005 only seems to add NV storage to the arguement to upgrade and Sprite takes care of that problem for me now..
I think we will see WM2005 for the magician eventually anyway (unofficially) and i'm quite happy to keep my current (magician) device for 12 months until my contract runs out..

Correct me if i'm wrong but i've downloaded microsoft platform builder which supposingly creates a custom platform for a device. I'm trying to see all of its features but it seems pretty straight-forward. It allows you to add the components you like, the drivers you want. I think we could be able to use our current drivers. It then builds a .nk file that you upload to your device. I think this is the correct direction. If someone likes to help, download the platform builder (trial from microsoft) and post any comments here.

andrew_sh said:
Correct me if i'm wrong but i've downloaded microsoft platform builder which supposingly creates a custom platform for a device. I'm trying to see all of its features but it seems pretty straight-forward. It allows you to add the components you like, the drivers you want. I think we could be able to use our current drivers. It then builds a .nk file that you upload to your device. I think this is the correct direction. If someone likes to help, download the platform builder (trial from microsoft) and post any comments here.
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I believe that will allow you to only build the CE 5.0 kernel. WM2k5 is a layer on top of that. Also, device drivers would be another issue entirely. I think it might be a bit job, but wait in hope that somebody can prove me wrong :lol:

If i experiment flashing different files to the magician. is there a possibility to destroy the bootloader? Are there any safeguards? How can somebody destroy the bootloader?

WM2005 for Magician?

Are there any plans from distrubutors of the Magician to release WM2005?
Or is will be there any unofficial release like on the Himalaya?

As it was written probably A MILLION TIMES in this forum:
NO, there are no plans to offer WM2005 officially on Magician.
NO, currently there are no known plans of some unofficial source to offer WM2005 on Magician.
HOWEVER: When WM2005 comes for Magician, you could easily find the information using the SEARCH function of this board.
BTW: What do you need WM2005 for? Is it so much better? Has it less bugs than mature WM2003SE?

Didnt mean to hit a nerve there, was just a simple question...

Even if we found a way it would be a pain in the *ss cos it wouldn't fit in the amount of ROM. Face it: the Magician is too small! :wink:
The Qtek S110 is a different story tho... :idea:

it will fit, as W2005 will be released for Dells and HPs with same ROM size(64MB)

Hoping somebody will cook it for magician

esackbauer said:
As it was written probably A MILLION TIMES in this forum:
NO, there are no plans to offer WM2005 officially on Magician.
NO, currently there are no known plans of some unofficial source to offer WM2005 on Magician.
HOWEVER: When WM2005 comes for Magician, you could easily find the information using the SEARCH function of this board.
BTW: What do you need WM2005 for? Is it so much better? Has it less bugs than mature WM2003SE?
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I hope you made same brilliant remark to all the HTC Typhoon users?? who will never ever recieve a official w2k5 rom! but are all playing with w2k5 now. It is very well possible that HTC has already made a rom available with w2k5 we don't know it's up to the providers to release it for the magician, but I guess your right they never will. Maybe next time it's more helpfull to say nothing then to point someone out the search function, because this i a forum for a bunch of wackos who try to do the impossible with their phones hehe

I'm waiting for the next Magician sized device with WM5.0, so far the only thing I've heard about is the ETEN m600 (or was it 700).

It will happen soon enough when the next devices become available. I don't see them releasing it on this one though. There is already a 128MB one on its way and the spec for that still says WM2003.

Will magician ever be upgraded to WM5?any chances?

hi there
I know it's WM5 upgrade not available right now but I was just wondering that if it'll ever be possible that mini would be upgraded to WM5.Is it possible or mini doesn't meet the hardware requirements of WM5?your ideas?

Read the forums This was discussed all over the place!

However
You can always hope, especially as teh o2 atom specs ate similar.
I get mine hopefully next week when I am over in China.

Nope, never, jamais, nunca, nie, никогда, nooit, ποτέ, mai.

Re: However
apple_power said:
You can always hope, especially as teh o2 atom specs ate similar.
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I hope that you are aware that Magician and o2 atom are not only different devices, BUT ALSO FROM DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS.
I will not be so naive to hope for WM5 on Magician, instead I hope for a nice brandnew WM5 device under the christmas tree. This hope is more likely to become true

Oh, another one!
:mrgreen: :lol: BWAAA HAA HAA HAAA HAAAA HAAAA :lol: :mrgreen:
Sorry, but I find people who ask this funny!

Especially because WM5 is absolutely uninteresting. It has been very slow on almost any new devices and the "nomore backups" issue isn't important to most of us people since we know how to make good backups - don't we?

I think WM5 is interessting! Not because of the Backup-Options.
Look here:
http://mobile-review.com/pda/articles/wm2005-1-en.shtml
The Outlook Contacts for example are _much_ better in WM5.
You see the Contact's full name _and_ the numbers and calling is so much easier!

Hate to sound like a newbie (which I am, just got my Mini/Magician today and first post to the forum), but according to some websites (http://www.gsmarena.com/o2_xda_atom-1372.php), looks like the new Atom will use the same processor as the Mini? Only difference is 128MB ram and possibly wifi (although another thread is debating that issue).
Wouldn't that be reason enough to expect a way to install Atom's WM5 to the Mini?

Stupy said:
Hate to sound like a newbie (which I am, just got my Mini/Magician today and first post to the forum), but according to some websites (http://www.gsmarena.com/o2_xda_atom-1372.php), looks like the new Atom will use the same processor as the Mini? Only difference is 128MB ram and possibly wifi (although another thread is debating that issue).
Wouldn't that be reason enough to expect a way to install Atom's WM5 to the Mini?
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Stupy, the problem is not just the processor type. The OS has to interface with all the hardware on your device such as Camera, BT chip, WiFi, Screen, etc. All of these require "drivers" that have to be written specifically for your hardware.
Unfortunately WM5 on the Magician is almost impossible. Unofficial upgrades for other devices occured simply because M$ and/or carriers were testing the new OS on these devices and the ROM got leaked. Now that the testing is over who do you think will take his time and effort to develop this interface for free??? And that's providing he/she has the necessary resources.
At this point the only way to upgrade to WM5 is to sell your device and get a new one :-( I will probably go for the 02 XDA Atom or HTC Prophet fairly soon.
(btw, I really really hope someone proves me wrong )

look at this link
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/2005/12/pink_pda.html
the specs are almost identical to xda2mini except for the 128mb, does this mean there is still hope that wm5 would still be possible for mini?

nato said:
look at this link
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/2005/12/pink_pda.html
the specs are almost identical to xda2mini except for the 128mb, does this mean there is still hope that wm5 would still be possible for mini?
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No. How may times does it have to be said. Read the post immediately before yours. :roll:
It's not going to happen.

kta said:
Stupy, the problem is not just the processor type. The OS has to interface with all the hardware on your device such as Camera, BT chip, WiFi, Screen, etc. All of these require "drivers" that have to be written specifically for your hardware.
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Thanks kta for sorting that out. I just got the Mini, so it'll be a little while before I get the Atom - they don't sell too many of these types of phones here in Canada. No matter, I'll be happy with what I've got. Cheers!

Don't hold out for Crossbow on the Hermes (on the Vario 2, at least)

After Crossbow was spotted running on an M3100 earlier this month, I fired off an email to T-Mobile asking them whether it would ever be available for the punters... Got a reply today:
The helpful Jann at T-Mobile said:
Good Morning Mr Woods
Thank you for your enquiry regarding handset updates.
So far the new AKU versions have all came out with new devices and the upgrade has never been supported from eg 2003 to 2005. if this will be available for the Crossbow then I don?t know.
From a t-mobile marketing point of view I would say it probably won't be available.
Kind Regards
Jann
T-Mobile
On 13/12/06 00:01, I wrote:
[From .CO.UK]
message:Now that Crossbow has been sighted in the wild on an Orange-branded flavour of the lovely Hermes, does T-Mobile have any kind of an ETA (be that from Microsoft themselves, TM head office or otherwise) for rolling it out to its Vario 2 customers?
I've read that Crossbow most likely won't be AKU3 of WM5, instead being an entirely new update which will be released before Microsoft release their Photon OS, and I've also seen it described as Windows Mobile 6 - but yeah, now that there's shots of an M3100 running it, it can't be that far from retail release, so I was just wondering if you had/have any plans in the works for letting us customers get it for their devices!
Cheers in advance
Christopher
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... Oh well. :/

that sucks :-(

He also is saying that there wont be a AKU3.x at all for the Hermes, and I think that's a load of BS. What he's saying is, if we want the latest AKU's, we have to buy new devices, FU buddy (the t-mobile guy that is)!

I'd say we need to concentrate on getting Buzz to update his stealth rom dumper.

If anyone has their hands on a Crossbow Hermes, get in touch with us. Buzz is temporarily detained, but source code of grabbit is available if required. What's needed?
Use Mamaich's rom dumper, the wiki solution or Pof's solution if you can. If not, contact a mod.
I suggest that it's unlikely an official Crossbow upgrade will come for Hermes. BUT the Samsung CPU has been popular and I imagine HTC will base a number of upcoming devices on the architecture. If so, a possible leaked rom may be hackable.
V

Sleuth255 said:
I'd say we need to concentrate on getting Buzz to update his stealth rom dumper.
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A dump from WinCE is not as good as a dump from bootloader.
Someone should write a windows tool that communicates to bootloader over USB and does all the 'rbmc' commands needed to dump xbow.
Sleuth255: I see you've developed several apps... are you able to write such a tool if i give you the right bootloader commands? USB is seen as a serial device.

Keeping this thread alive and on top, maybe seen before, lots of Crossbow screenshots on this site:
http://www.pgcw.com.cn/newsdetail.asp?id=1366#here

How can we make it stealthy though? I may get my hands on a CrossBow equipped Hermes during MEDC 2K7 in May, but if I do, it'll most likely be in the exhibit area for only 5-10 minutes. This is why something like buzz's solution is so compelling.
I can certainly work on an app that will pull the ROM image when a device in bootloader mode is connected up to a PC. Having this certainly increases our chances if someone does manage to get one for a few hours.
I'll see what I can code up, but IMO we should also pursue buzz's stealth solution. Go ahead and point me towards the commands pof.. I can start with the instructions you left for tsuishui.

christopherwoods said:
After Crossbow was spotted running on an M3100 earlier this month, I fired off an email to T-Mobile asking them whether it would ever be available for the punters... Got a reply today:
... Oh well. :/
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Reading the message with open mind and not only with the eyes I read:
1) The man answering doesn't even knows the difference between OS and AKU. He speaks about 2003 and 2005 as AKU difference: ISN'T AKU, is a new OS release!
2) The same fellow doesn't even know the NAME of OSes! 2003 was right but we have Windows Mobile 5 an NOT 2005!
3) He is a man from the customer service, or, worst, probabily the answer comes from Tmobile marketing man, with little or no knowledge about the future of windows mobile devices, he knows about the past but seem really short sighted abut the future
4) The answer is the only answer he could give: if he will say "may be.." or "we will see" everyone will start asking WHEN, boring him from is well paid chair, so is better to say "no", beacuse "no" was the answer given since yesterday and worked! They don't sell devices, the sell radio time and traffic
5) In the Operators market strong agreements exists between MS and operators and marketing doesn't drive, they follow!
Overclock the brain reading messages and spokesmen transcripts from companies, not only eyes and be carefull when asking something simple but revolutionary to a large and with good revenues company: 90% of answers will be NO

Will WM7 ever work on the BA?

Pretty much what the title says. Any speculation over whether we will get wm7 running?

we have so many fine chefs in the forum, i say YES to it.

i would say yes, but i am not quite sure, if i am sooo happy about it. i mean, i like wm6.5 and looove the BA, but even in wm6.1 and of course now in wm6.5 there are many things additional that many people want for their phones but the os alone can't help it, many things are only available for vga/wvga devices and even if we can make the ui better and make it look nice, a BA will never become the same as the "big" phones like touch diamond, touch hd...
you can do a lot with the device and even add a lot of features, that's what i always try to explain to my friends. the software features of a wm phone are basicly all the same, there is a lot of potential in each and every device, the things that really matter when buying a new device is the hardware specs: wlan, accelerometer... things you can't install afterwards.
in conclusion i would say wm7 will work o the BA, but i doubt that you can use the full experience, since the resolution of qvga might not be enough for most add-on apps, and without accelerometer, light sensor and other gimmicks, maybe some basic ui features might be missing.
i think this is going to be a very interesting thread, thx hardingt0110
Chef_Tony

Well i can not answer this yet, when WM7 is publically available and more developers have fixes for core and driver issues which will emerge with the new CE OS it may be remotely possible
But for now my answer is NO, we will not see WM7 in Blueangel, the new CE core will be incompatible, a BA ce core should be generated via platform builder and the blueangel BSP, also all drivers must be rewritten from scratch, and noone outside HTC and Microsoft have the BSP,and (i only talk for myself here) i do not have such development skills to do it

I think the answer is may be work,I dont understand the mechanism of the internal properties and small details of the BA hardware, but for long time they said there is no wm 5 for magician(i mate jam),before like a month a russian developer called cotulla made it and now the wm 6.1 runs at magician.
really we trust that BA developers will make it too.

xplode said:
Well i can not answer this yet, when WM7 is publically available and more developers have fixes for core and driver issues which will emerge with the new CE OS it may be remotely possible
But for now my answer is NO, we will not see WM7 in Blueangel, the new CE core will be incompatible, a BA ce core should be generated via platform builder and the blueangel BSP, also all drivers must be rewritten from scratch, and noone outside HTC and Microsoft have the BSP,and (i only talk for myself here) i do not have such development skills to do it
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How many times have we gone over the same things? I believe that over the last 4 years, I have seen this post and thread (similar anyways) as many times as M$ has come up with/announced a new OS. Same reasons that xplode listed here too...
*different core
*drivers not the same
*hardware is different
and so on and so forth....
Have some faith people... our devices still pack a powerful punch and I don't think the world has seen the last flight of the Blue Angels just yet. So what if we can't tilt the device back and forth? Trust me, I have been using this acceleromenter feature on the Fuze and I am not that impressed. Besides, I am almost certain that something can be created to replace it. The only thing that I would not mind seeing would be multitouch screen, in which case, I would have to admit... we are screwed
Look at it this way guys, many of us have the SX66 variant of the BA, which means no camera. If we were able to get by without cameras for this long (that is for the ones that are still holding onto their dear BA's), I guess we can do away with a few things here and there...
Look into the future with sunglasses ladies and gents, it is gonna be a bright one

well the hardware may support WM7 but there is no software upgrade (core and drivers) for this hardware
take a look at alpine still have no upgrade from WM 2003 and it is powerful device
well in latest OS-es they al are based on CE5 (WM5 - CE5.1, WM6(including 6.1 and 6.5) - CE5.2) so the core is almost the same it was made run with few hex edits, and drivers are the same ones from WM5. For WM7 we now have new CE OS everything is difrend there.

xplode said:
well the hardware may support WM7 but there is no software upgrade (core and drivers) for this hardware
take a look at alpine still have no upgrade from WM 2003 and it is powerful device
well in latest OS-es they al are based on CE5 (WM5 - CE5.1, WM6(including 6.1 and 6.5) - CE5.2) so the core is almost the same it was made run with few hex edits, and drivers are the same ones from WM5. For WM7 we now have new CE OS everything is difrend there.
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That's true, but I don't think the Alpine ever had too many "enthusiasts" or at least not as many as the Himalaya or the BA. You are right about the specs though... powerful indeed, but I guess since it came out around the birth of the BA, lots of people went for the extra added bulk of the keyboard. Long story short, if you don't have too many devs on it, there isn't much to do...
My two cents

Yeah you are right, but i just gave it as example
We have 6.5 now because we had WM5, but we will have WM7 only if there is such rom made in microsoft and leaked in the process

xplode said:
Yeah you are right, but i just gave it as example
We have 6.5 now because we had WM5, but we will have WM7 only if there is such rom made in microsoft and leaked in the process
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Like that has never happened before ... I mean, I normally think of M$ as a humongous strainer or a really bad filter

egzthunder1 said:
Like that has never happened before ... I mean, I normally think of M$ as a humongous strainer or a really bad filter
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Well from what I've seen and after working for some related companies, I really don't believe in such thing as a "leak", its done on purpose. Reasons? Free Advertising, creates expectation, free testing w/o risk to "the company", etc, etc, etc. Just look at it that way, and you'll understand me better

xplode said:
Well i can not answer this yet, when WM7 is publically available and more developers have fixes for core and driver issues which will emerge with the new CE OS it may be remotely possible
But for now my answer is NO, we will not see WM7 in Blueangel, the new CE core will be incompatible, a BA ce core should be generated via platform builder and the blueangel BSP, also all drivers must be rewritten from scratch, and noone outside HTC and Microsoft have the BSP,and (i only talk for myself here) i do not have such development skills to do it
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xplode is just being modest here, sun_dream and helmi_c is probably smiling behind his back now

Even though WM7 may not be able to run on BA due to different core, drivers, etc, I do have faith and believe in developers!

When will WM7 be released... any ideas?

shaper said:
When will WM7 be released... any ideas?
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I doubt anyone could answer you that, google for your answer.

imatrix said:
I doubt anyone could answer you that, google for your answer.
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Have googled many times, not one site can give a real answer, some report the last quarter or last year..lol. Perhaps one of the talented people here may have a better insight

noone can give definite answer to that because veen the people at MS are no sure yet, but suggested date is sometime autumn 2010

xplode said:
noone can give definite answer to that because veen the people at MS are no sure yet, but suggested date is sometime autumn 2010
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Thanks Explode, was hoping that my phone upgrade in June might have been with WM7!! And thank you for all the hard work and advice you give us!!

Though I am a fan of Windows Mobile OS, but I still question why do we need new releases from M$? Have you seen any new features and considerable improvements since its release as WM 2003 in the year 2003? Answer is a clear NO, features offered in 2003 ans features offered now after 6 years are exactly the same. I am sure WM7 release will be a big disappointment too. WM6.5 is clearly showing lack of innovations and introduction of new features. Home screen of 6.5 is a big disappointment, today;s screen has made life more complex and omg introduction of honeycomb proved us that how simple interfaces could be made more complex, lock screen is buggy etc etc.
WM has been a leader in smart phones since long but why a newcomer like iPhone could easily push WM years behind the innovations. iPhone clearly proved that even though there are less features packed into it, but whatever is packed is reliable and very user friendly and thats what is appreciated by customers. We are still struggling to resolve wifi issues in wm. PIE or WMP can not stream popular YouTube videos. M2D offers much superior user interface though heavy on memory. I have yet to see a new innovative feature in WM. thats why I ask why do we need another version of WM. M$ team is just chasing features introduced by other players like touchFlo, touch zoom, multiple touches.. If next version of iPhone release in this June offers maps with text to speech directions, WM release will be pushed back by one more year. I am sure new version of iPhone will offer many more new features and I simply pity lack of innovations and leading innovations at M$ house. Chasing behind someone will never give a lead.
I wish M$ has hidden agenda for 6.5 as well for wm7 else I dont see any point in going for WM7 in the near future except if i want to say I have the latest windows mobile on my BA.
I think the topic of this thread should be changed to 'Will we ever need WM7?"

overall from WM5 to WM6.5 there are a lot under the hood improvements, but the UI was almost the same, this will change in WM7
well to answer your question i will say this (this is my personal opinion)
Yes i need constant change so yes i need the change to WM7, but if you as is it worth to upgrade to WM7 i can not answer yet and noone outside microsoft can at this moment