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Hi everyone,
I received my new XDA Exec last Friday and today (Tuesday) I just returned it!
I'm not here to try to influence anybody, but if you haven't bought one yet, you might find this useful.
Then it's up to you.....
I owned 6 PDAs until now, from an old IPAQ with B&W screen to this great XDA Exec piece of kit.
This to me is simply a fantastic piece of hardware, but unfortunately it is severely let down by the software running on it and comiing with it.
Here is what I found in the last 4 days before I lost my patience:
PROS:
1) FAntastic screen, great resolution, brightness and clarity
2) Very good keyboard. It might be too small for touch-typing, but it's great if you don't have to write a book with your Exec. Most of the functions on the screen are replicated on buttons on the keyboard, so you can use the Exec without a stylo pretty easily.
3) USB charging. Nice after the previous XDAs to have one with a "normal" adaptor.
4) Nice new processor. I know many people on this forum had problem with the speed of their JasJar, but I found my Exec very speedy. I personally noticed an improvement from my XDA II.
I'm sure I could have other nice things to say about it, but here are the CONS:
1) It says everywhere about its 285gr weight, but I don't know if you really realize what you're getting yourself into. If you're used to bring your XDA into your bag or your backpack, then no problems. If you always found a place in your pocket for your XDA, then you better tighten your belt because this baby is a real brick!
2) The hardware is probably the best piece of kit I came across, but the software is the worst ensemble of problems I've ever dealt with.
Activesync 4.0 is a bag of .... Both my tomtom 5 software and a flight planning navigation softare that were working to perfection on my XDA II, are not working on the new EXEC.
I know somebody has been able to install the tomtom by transfering the .CAB files directly to the Exec, but I'm one of those "unlucky" (or too stupid) ones that couldn't install one of the 4 .CAB files and therefore....no tomtom 5 for me anymore.
The other piece of software is a VB written software, I installed the VBruntime and I was able to transfer the .CAB files individually. I managed to install the software, but it then started to play havoc with the Exec (the keyboard light would not come on anymore and even after few soft-reset and unistalling the application, I could only bring the system back to normal throught a hard-reset).
3) I also had the soft buttons disappear on me, and had to reset the machine before they reappeared. By the way, please note that the soft reset on my XDA Exec, takes approx 1 min to take place and restart the system. It's a lot longer than on my XDA II and if you think of how many times you'll need to restart it in its life (thanks Microsoft for its well known stabiltiy).
4) WM Player has problem with its full screen funcition. Even if you select the box, it won't play in full screen. If you like me, have plenty of movies converted in a 320x240 format and you'd like to use them in the new Exec, then forget the WMP because they'll only play in 320x240. WMP will not "stretch" them and they'll only look as big as a stamp.
You can easily download a free software (Core Pocket Media Player) which is a great piece of kit, but this brings me to my next point,
5) Storage memory in the new Exec is not "plentyful". The system should come with 128Mb, but around 80Mb are already taken by the pre-installed software. When you first start the machine, if you look and the memory settings, you'll only have around 40Mb available, 20 for Storage and 20 for programs.....and you cannot bias the size from one side to the other. In this new software, it's done automatically.
You can probably download software to correct or improve the one that the system is shipped with, but you'll soon find out that you'll run out of memory.
I installed on my new XDA:
The PDF viewer,
The VBruntime,
Microsoft Autoroute,
Core Pocket Media player,
and all I was left were 6 miserable Mb to play with.
I know somebody said that the system is designed for you to install the programs on SD cards, but I found this whole thing a bit ridicolous.
BTW, Microsoft Reader is NOT included in the system, so if you, like me, like to read books on the go, you'll have to download it separately and utilize even more memory
I'm sure I could go on for another few pages but I'll better stop.
I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, but I'm trying to make a simple point.
If you're an expert in PC and PDAs and if you're ready to "play" with your exec for hours on end to reach a "usable" machine, then enjoy it. It's really a great piece of hardware, with almost endless potential.
If you are an XDA (or probably any other PDA) user and you think that you can get the new Exec and transfer all of your programs on it and have it working in a heartbeat......think again.
I'm no pro, but I'm not a complete rockie.
I don't want to spend my next 3 months downloading ROM upgrades and hard-resetting this beast, just to get out of it what I already get out of my old XDA II.
My final thought is that if you haven't bought one yet, you might want to wait a litte bit more, until microsoft or somebody else, sorts out some of these problems.
I Hope somebody might find this useful.
ps My apologies for the grammar.....
Wow...
I am really confused on what to do...
I'm just confused!
trendystyle, don't you already have a JasJar!?
And mig31, returning "a fantastic piece of hardware" because it's not running some old (and therefore not fully compatible) software properly seems a bit hasty, doesn't it?
I love my Exec. I have no issues with memory, except it is misleading how they publish.
And software does need to be updated to WM5, so patience. The rom works well.
Its a PDA with a phone and thats the best way to look at it.
Well i recieved my exec this morning. First impressions are that its not that big. If your used to and xda then there isnt a great deal of difference. Its quite heavy but not massivly so.
The screen is fantastic, as is the keyboard. So far i am loving it!
The box that it comes in is wroth the money alone!
I'm returning mine too.
This was my first PPC after years with Palm and the Pam interface just seems to come across as cleaner and friendlier.
I've had AS 4.0 hose the wireless connection on my laptop and no one seems to be able to help.
Another thing that bothers me is the need to pay for 3rd party programs to do just about anything to make it more usable.
Even something as simple viewing the list of programs as a list instead of as large icons need a 3rd party program.
Want to close a program instead of just puting it in the background, get a 3rd party program to make the close button work like a close button.
Don't even get me started about Pocket IE.
I've had to hard reset it once and soft reset the device 4 times in 2 days, this was before loading anything new on it. Just while using it as normal right out of the box.
Finally, it's really slow.
I did not mind the size as I knew what I was getting into. I wanted the larger screen and keyboard. It actually felt just fine as a phone in my hand.
The phone seems to be designed with PPC afficionados in mind. For a regular user who does not have the time or inclination to play around with ROM upgrades, tweaks, 3rd party programs, etc. this doesn't seem to work. If you want to spend hours playing with it, this just might be for you.
I'm going back to my Treo 650 for now.
Hi,
i can´t really understand some of your cons.
> 2) The hardware is probably the best piece of kit I came across, but the
> software is the worst ensemble of problems I've ever dealt with.
> ActiveSync 4.0 is a bag of ....
Active Sync works perfectly for me, no problems at all.
> Both my tomtom 5 software and a flight planning navigation softare that
> were working to perfection on my XDA II, are not working on the new
> EXEC.
Both programs aren´t designed for use use with WM2k5, so what do you expect ? Instead of blaming the device, go and ask tomtom for an update.
> 3) [...] By the way, please note that the soft reset on my XDA Exec,
> takes approx 1 min to take place and restart the system.
Ok, it´s 35 seconds for me, sure, that´s not really fast, but i needed exactly one softreset in the last two weeks .. so i can live with that.
(i don´t count resets after installing ne software)
> 4) WM Player has problem with its full screen funcition. Even if you
> select the box, it won't play in full screen.
Yes, you are right ... the WM-Player is really bad, but just download the free betaplayer .. works very fine and this problem is solved - 2 minutes of work.
> 5) Storage memory in the new Exec is not "plentyful". [...]
> I installed on my new XDA:
> The PDF viewer, The VBruntime, Microsoft Autoroute, Core Pocket
> Media player, and all I was left were 6 miserable Mb to play with.
First of all, the pdf viewer is already installed in WM2k5, so no need to reinstall it (at least it was on my machine).
I have the following programs installed on my mda pro:
- Total Commander
- Chess
- Betaplayer
- Registry Editor
- i-Mate backgammon
- weather plugin
- grps monitor (from the t-mobile cd)
and i have 32 Megs storage mem free and 29 megs program mem free.
But .. hey, if you install a routing software like autoroute and don´t install it on the sd card .. your fault.
Sure, your conclusion is not so bad .. the mda pro is no device for bloody novices, but .. a minumum of knowledge and understanding is enough to use and configure it.
- Superbowl
Read your comments, its a shame.
I am a power user, and I have used the Treo. The only advantage the Treo has is its simplicity and size.
WM5 and the Exec are a complex beast. It can perform loads of tasks. There is no need to always close apps. I dont use any task manager as I do not see the need.
Standard MS apps can be closed with ctrl q on the SIP keyboard.
The device is new. You havent given it anytime to really understand it. It takes at least a week - a month to learn about it.
All of these 'issues' could have been identified before purchasing the Universal with just a tiny bit of research!
Again, it sounds like people are rushing out to spend their money on the latest greates device without the slightest idea of what they're getting themselves into. (I got a proper mauling for suggesting this a week or so ago in another thread, but I still firmly believe this to be the case)
I'd suggest a lot of people around here would be more comfortable with the far less threatening new P990. Looks like a decent 3G smartphone, and would be easier for a newbie. Perhaps get to grips with something like that before moving on to an XDA device when you've outgrown Symbian? (That route worked for me, anyway!)
If only I'm staying in UK.I don't mind buying a set from u guys . :wink:
Many thanks to mig31 for a useful guide to others thinking of buying this device. I do think though that as most of the Cons highlighted have been discussed at length in previous threads, maybe you should have held off a little longer before buying one.
As a first time poster, mig31 may have an excuse as indeed would any unfortunates who have walked into their local 02 shop and bought one on the recommendations of the sales teams. But surely, all regular readers of xda-developers forum should be well aware of the pros and cons of the device. I am also fairly sure that like me, most will be subscribed to many other sites as well.
I would therefore have to agree with sub69, (incidentally, I also agreed with your comments on the earlier thread but refrained from joining for fear of receiving similar irrational abuse). :roll:
Thinking of getting an Exec...
Greetings to all!
I'm new here, just recently registered. I've been doing some background research on the Exec and it seems reasonable. However, I am finding more mixed reviews about it.
I'm currently on the II and I am thoroughly enjoying it! Prior to switching to the II, I entrusted my mobile needs to my good 'ol 6210 and Vx which I do not miss at the very least. Those two served me well.
I am thinking of getting an Exec, do you guys/ gals think it would be a worthwhile investment? I use my II almost exclusively for work and I plan to do the same with the Exec if ever. I hardly get to use the camera and MP3 on my II, but I adore it for having access Word and Excel. The Exec currently isn't available in Manila, hence my search outside. Being behind the curve (in Manila) would guys/ gals know of any hitches that I might encounter by trying to operate my unit here in Manila (phone function)? Are there language settings to choose from on the Exec?
Lastly, by any of you might know of a user/reseller planning to dispose of their Execs?
Cheers!
gavinfabl said:
WM5 and the Exec are a complex beast. It can perform loads of tasks.
...
The device is new. You havent given it anytime to really understand it. It takes at least a week - a month to learn about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you. That's why I'm going to try it out for close to the full 14 day trial period. Then, if it's still not for me, it goes back.
sub69 said:
I'm just confused!
trendystyle, don't you already have a JasJar!?
And mig31, returning "a fantastic piece of hardware" because it's not running some old (and therefore not fully compatible) software properly seems a bit hasty, doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviuosly I have it!
I am confused, cause I don't know what to do, and time is running out(1 month for refund...), should i keep it, hoping for a new update, or sending it back, and waiting for real and mature super device?^??
I've had AS 4.0 hose the wireless connection on my laptop and no one seems to be able to help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm while you don't specifically state the problem here I think I may have one possible solution...if my hunch is correct.
When you connect a WM5.0 device using ActiveSync 4 Windows creates a Network Port for it.
Now Windows uses a series of Metrics for all networked devices, whichever device has the lowest metric becomes the default. It is possible that Windows is assigning a lower metric to your XDA's network device then your Wireless network, hence it picks that as your default device screwing up your wireless connection.
For more detailed information on metrics see this article
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg0405.mspx
You can however over-ride the default behavior.
Go to Start>Control Panel>Network Connections
Right click your wireless network connection and choose properties. Select Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) from the list and then click the Properties button
From the properties window click the Advanced button
In the advanced settings window at the bottom there is a tickbox which says Automatic Metric. Untick this and assign it a number, say 20
Click ok and close all the windows till you get back to the Network Connections Window. Do the same for the network connection assigned to your XDA but assign it a HIGHER number then you did for the wireless connection.
Your wireless connection should now be the default!
If it doesn't work then you can just simply put things back as they were and everything will be ok
trendystyle said:
Obviuosly I have it!
I am confused, cause I don't know what to do, and time is running out(1 month for refund...), should i keep it, hoping for a new update, or sending it back, and waiting for real and mature super device?^??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhhhhhhh, I see!
Well, if you return it for a refund you can always pick up a subsidised Exec or Pro later on for much less money, or you could stick with the JasJar and update as you go along.
Either way, you'll be waiting for a more mature device, just a matter of whether you want a less mature device while you wait, or no device at all?
mjames_84 said:
I've had AS 4.0 hose the wireless connection on my laptop and no one seems to be able to help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm while you don't specifically state the problem here I think I may have one possible solution...if my hunch is correct.
......
If it doesn't work then you can just simply put things back as they were and everything will be ok
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input.
Here's a more detailed description of the problem:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=168289#168289
See my followup post in that thread for more info as well.
sub69 said:
trendystyle said:
Obviuosly I have it!
I am confused, cause I don't know what to do, and time is running out(1 month for refund...), should i keep it, hoping for a new update, or sending it back, and waiting for real and mature super device?^??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhhhhhhh, I see!
Well, if you return it for a refund you can always pick up a subsidised Exec or Pro later on for much less money, or you could stick with the JasJar and update as you go along.
Either way, you'll be waiting for a more mature device, just a matter of whether you want a less mature device while you wait, or no device at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as you might know, as you purchase a new device, there are always bacos, problem, or maybe bad firmware:
I prefer maybe to see, if in the next 4/6 month they will come out, with an improved Jasjar(at SW or HW level), maybe at a fair price, not at thieves price, that will allow me to do all the things I was doing normally with much cheaper and obsolete devices (like installing 3rd party applications, games, etc.), without rebooting every 20 minutes
I understand the post on the Treo 650, is by far much better delivering its mission, it goes smooth, never reboot, and cost the half!
trendystyle said:
Well, as you might know, as you purchase a new device, there are always bacos, problem, or maybe bad firmware:
I prefer maybe to see, if in the next 4/6 month they will come out, with an improved Jasjar(at SW or HW level), maybe at a fair price, not at thieves price, that will allow me to do all the things I was doing normally with much cheaper and obsolete devices (like installing 3rd party applications, games, etc.), without rebooting every 20 minutes
I understand the post on the Treo 650, is by far much better delivering its mission, it goes smooth, never reboot, and cost the half!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see where this is going, so lets just agree to disagree now, shall we? :wink:
sub69 said:
trendystyle said:
Well, as you might know, as you purchase a new device, there are always bacos, problem, or maybe bad firmware:
I prefer maybe to see, if in the next 4/6 month they will come out, with an improved Jasjar(at SW or HW level), maybe at a fair price, not at thieves price, that will allow me to do all the things I was doing normally with much cheaper and obsolete devices (like installing 3rd party applications, games, etc.), without rebooting every 20 minutes
I understand the post on the Treo 650, is by far much better delivering its mission, it goes smooth, never reboot, and cost the half!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see where this is going, so lets just agree to disagree now, shall we? :wink:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right!
It's a way of fact: TREO 650, at the moment works much better than the Jasjar: let's hope for the future!
1) Or I-mate solve a lot of problem
2) I will buy the new Treo 700, on Windows mobile 5.0
Hi guys,
This may be a stupid question but here goes....
I recently upgraded my father's phone to an XDA Exec from a Nokia 9500 and everything seems fine but I'm having two small problems...
1) There doesn't seem to be a way of actually switching off the phone like you can on the HTC wizard ot Tytn... is there a reason for this and is there a patch I can install that will remove the screen dim function and replace it with a real off button?
2) I have installed MS Voice Command 1.5v but there seem to be problems with it, it wont call contacts or even display them on the screen, I dont really fancy paying another $40 for it so is there a bug fix for this or is it literally a case of biting the bullet and ordering the latest version?
Thanks a lot guys, this site is Fab!!
Terryd1980
terryd1980 said:
1) There doesn't seem to be a way of actually switching off the phone like you can on the HTC wizard ot Tytn... is there a reason for this and is there a patch I can install that will remove the screen dim function and replace it with a real off button?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some utilities may have shutdown commands, or you can remove and reinsert the battery; the device won't restart until you press the power button.
2) I have installed MS Voice Command 1.5v but there seem to be problems with it, it wont call contacts or even display them on the screen, I dont really fancy paying another $40 for it so is there a bug fix for this or is it literally a case of biting the bullet and ordering the latest version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That version is known not to work under WM5. The current version, 1.6, works fine, so you may want to upgrade. Cheers,
Hi all,
I have an Archos 70IT but, with an accident, the screen broke up, and now i wan't to know if I can do something with my Archos, like installing Linux on it, making a server or whatever else than letting it on the ground.
Thanks for your answer
eagleofdeath13 said:
Hi all,
I have an Archos 70IT but, with an accident, the screen broke up, and now i wan't to know if I can do something with my Archos, like installing Linux on it, making a server or whatever else than letting it on the ground.
Thanks for your answer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if it still runs then great - but how can you configure it to enable ssh, some kind of a share, or even usb access, without a screen?
can you use it by plugging an hdmi monitor to it? ( don' tknow if your model has hdmi out)
First of all thanks to reply ^^
Yes it still run (or it seems to run ^^) and the "how?" is the the question that i ask ^^
I will try to plug it to an HDMI monitor but I think it will not work (to make the external screen work you have to use a button, that i can't use without screen).
The only thing i've done is going in recovery and use the flash disk with my compute. If only we could make our self .aos i could make a one that accept SSH access, and then the work will be done, but we can't
hmmm.... that's a tricky one then.
Without trying to sound negative, all I can think of is to get another one, take both of them apart to get access to the screen connectors, attach working screen to yours and do whatever programming changes are needed so that when you power it on you can access it or vnc control it from another machine by default without having to touch anything. then put the other one together again and return it to the store or give it back to your generous friend who let you borrow it for the weekend
and no - I'm not that generous ;-)
There may be some other brilliant method but I certainly don't know of it in standard android.
I have bought another one (i was addicted to this thing ^^) but ... open it wil break the garanty so i'm not sure. Maybe i will wait some time before doing this (or wait another idea) but thanks, it's a really good idea ^^
If you can see anything on the screen you can get a wireless keyboard mouse combo to use the device. If you can't see anything you might have a pretty hard time and a lot of guess work flashing a custom kernel with SSH enabled by default. Does angstrom have SSH enabled?
Also not really android dev...
Sent from my A101IT using Tapatalk
Nothing visible on the screen, only white :S And for Angström I don't know.
(Could someone replace this subject on the right place!)
eagleofdeath13 said:
I have bought another one (i was addicted to this thing ^^) but ... open it wil break the garanty so i'm not sure. Maybe i will wait some time before doing this (or wait another idea) but thanks, it's a really good idea ^^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool, I agree about the warranty issue if you own the second 101 yourself.
My suggestions were slightly illegal (buy then return to store "I don't want it after all so would like a refund" LoL) or just not very nice ("thanks, I liked borrowing that over the weekend to play games" LoL).
Wait as long as possible in case someone more clever can help you out.
But I'm glad that my ideas weren't completely crazy anyhow
Cheers,
Don
But i'm also afraid to break something ^^
eagleofdeath13 said:
But i'm also afraid to break something ^^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that would stop me from doing it also. I was hoping you were more confident working insde tiny electronic devices than I am.
d31b0y said:
If you can see anything on the screen you can get a wireless keyboard mouse combo to use the device. If you can't see anything you might have a pretty hard time and a lot of guess work flashing a custom kernel with SSH enabled by default. Does angstrom have SSH enabled?
Also not really android dev...
Sent from my A101IT using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, seems like you could flash it with a cooked Uruk configured how you wanted it so that it would work with ssh/vnc from a straight boot. I'm trying to think of the steps that would be involved and if you would need a working screen.
If you knew the exact location of the menu items on the Uruk install you could do it without the screen (press vol down twice, then enter; next step press vol once, enter, etc - these are just examples, obviously). I think Uruk comes with ssh enabled by default. I could be wrong or missing a key step you can't do blindly, just thinking out loud here.
I've never used UrukDroid, but if someone here knows the steps it would be very, very nice! Thanks in advance and Thanks for your help.
Pull apart the broken one and see what the make/model of the screen is and then see if you can buy a new screen.
You could also contact Archos and buy a screen from them.
Thanks, yes I think i'll try to do that ^^
Same problem ...
Broke my screen too!
I'm trying this route ... EBAY - cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230598268646
Cheaper but you have to use Western-Union: item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9004146795
I dropped the http : //. I'm new to the forum and they do not let new members post links. I assure all that I have no connection to either link. In fact, I'm still waiting for my purchase from EBAY (it's only been a week or so from over-seas). I obtained the second link from forum(.)archosfans(.)com and had contact with them - they wanted $77 USD plus shipping and payment via WesternUnion. I chose EBAY because I felt I had more financial protection.
Hi all,
So, despite being careful I inevitably dropped my shiny Galaxy S2. I was more than unlucky though, and it fell in the path of a revolving door! End result is a smashed screen but working device. Nope, no insurance and I bought it without contract so I've lost a lot of pennies.
However, I am hoping to save something from this. I'm typing on my old desire so excuse the brief initial post bit I'm hoping I can at least not let the phone go to waste...
I have the MHL to HDMI cable and using this I can see the phone started ok and the pattern screen is displayed, so far so good!
However the screen doesn't respond to touch. Bummer.
So my thought is this: I've seen that you can hook up a Bluetooth mouse to the phone ... I'm wondering if I can pair a Bluetooth mouse before the pattern lock using adb and thus have a phone I can leave connected to the TV, use a mouse with and still get some use out of.
What do you guys think?
Cheers!
Its actually very doable.The problem is how to pair the mouse
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
Indeed, that is very much the problem! I would hope that once its paired it will all be plain sailing, but trying to get it paired in its current state is the crux of it
Why not buy a new screen?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Mostly because they are almost as expensive as the phone itself... That and it's not just the screen, the surrounding frame is also quite badly damaged. I figure if I wait till after xmas I can probably get a new S2 for a similar price as I would be paying for just the screen now. I have my old desire which is keeping me going in the meantime.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=971768
See if that works?
can't you just perform a hard reset? It can be done through recovery and only requires hardware buttons.
Should take care of the unlock code part, not?
sargorn said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=971768
See if that works?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks sargorn, however my phone doesn't have debugging enabled to I can't adb into the phone in anything other than recovery mode...
swiftshifter said:
can't you just perform a hard reset? It can be done through recovery and only requires hardware buttons.
Should take care of the unlock code part, not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi swiftshifter...
Yes, this is an option to get rid of the unlock part but I'd rather not hard reset if there are alternatives. I'm keeping this as a backup.
I still need to figure out the send event stuff though because I'll probably need this to 'press' the buttons required to pair a mouse.
I think my biggest hurdle at the moment, or the biggest win if I can get it, is to enable debugging mode whilst the phone is on normally as suggested in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17910067 But I haven't had a chance to try this yet...
How about going into your market account from PC and remotely install VNC server? One problem though.. how to automatically start the VNC server...
MindToAsk said:
How about going into your market account from PC and remotely install VNC server? One problem though.. how to automatically start the VNC server...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A good idea! But yeah, hindered by the same issue. I think long term I'd prefer the bluetooth mouse but for the sake of setting everything up VNC on there would probably make life a lot easier! Can't believe I hadn't though of it to be honest!
Now just to work out how to get it started ;-)
I wanted to start a thread to solve some minor headaches regarding NuVision tablets. Specifically the TM800W560L, but may include others.
The manufacture is TMAX, and the brand is NuVision. Some of you have these. I picked up the 560 at the Microsoft store, a couple of days before Christmas, 2016. I ghosted the factory image as backup, and wiped clean to start from scratch, using Windows 10 Pro.
Let's say my hack started at the Microsoft Store, social engineering a sale of $25 for the unit. Yes you can get these for free, if you were buying a Windows Surface, but why would you want this if you have a Surface? It's such a terrible device to support for the sod who got one...
This unit is the most similar to the HP Stream 7, MSRP $79. I have a couple of these as well. I a bit miffed that, although the CPU is 64-bit, we can only use 32-bit Windows. This produces some problems as only 64-bit drivers are readily supported via Windows Update. I have made use of some of these drivers for the 560 to solve some problems.
Lets get down to the issues at hand:
1. The Camera drivers.
OV2680 ( OVTi2680 Ven_OVTi&Dev_2680 )
OV5648 ( INT5648 Ven_INT&Dev_5648 )
Problem: For every Windows Feature Upgrade, the drivers are wiped out and replaced with some non-functional version. Frankly, I don't think I have been able to get the cameras to work at all. At least, not by using the Windows 10 Camera App. I pulled a litany of drivers from various sources and I can get them to at least seem okay, as far as the device manager is concerned, but not much beyond that.
2. Intel Chip Set drivers.
Problem: Much like the camera drivers, for every Windows Feature Upgrade, the chipset drivers are updated as well, but then the supplied drivers are non-functional. This results in the lost of touch and gravity sensors, among other functions. This requires the use of a USB OTG adaptor, (Yes you can have USB and power at the same time!) and reinstallation of the original chipset drivers.
All in all I get the sense this is abandoned technology, and I feel that no-one particularly cares. In addition, I am a little bored with this thing, and I would like to see if I can make it better.
If anyone has questions or advice, I am open minded, but it should be sincere.
Thanks,
I picked the TM800W610L. I will see if the camera drivers and chipset drivers from this model will work for the 560. However NuVision has reduced their driver set to bare bones. In some respects this is admirable, but in my case, it leaves little hope that there's any 32bit support.
For the uninitiated, the 560, although has a 64bit CPU, the BIOS only boots 32bit Windows. This is the same situation on the same CPU, for the HP Stream 7, which I am also leveraging for support.
I have been able to dig around a little bit, regarding the BIOS firmware, for both models. Geekbench is a nice repository of data, for a shallow dive.
This is what I have, for known BIOS revisions:
I have the installer for version H, supporting the 610.
I can backup version R, installed on my 560.
If anyone is interested in an "update" from an older version, it would be interesting to get a backup of what you currently have in exchange for an update.
TMAX TM800W610L
JK-BI-8-HLK80CR100-C34A-101-F-LCD3 08/01/2016
JK-BI-8-HLK80CR100-C34A-101-H-LCD2 03/02/2017
TMAX TM800W560L
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-G
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-H
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-L
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-O
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-P
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-Q
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-R 08/25/2016
JK-8-BI-PX5S10TCR100-X534A-001-T
I just picked one of these up myself (the TM800W560L) and am working on getting it upgraded to Pro (and put on the Insider preview program, because I like my devices consistent) at the moment. I was a little sad to see that these machines have 32-bit UEFI effectively making the 64-bit enhancements useless and limiting software support to 32-bit only (that immediately threw out my plans for using WSL/Ubuntu on the thing since Windows Subsystem for Linux is a 64-bit only feature), but after a couple hours with this tablet, I'm really enjoying it. It took about 4 hours to install the latest batch of updates, but unlike your own experiences, all my drivers still worked after the upgrade from 1511 to 1709 (Build 16299).
I did see some very negative reviews for the product on Amazon, mostly about customer support, so I knew what I was getting into when I ordered it.
EDIT: My gripes about the device were apparently for a defective device. Got a new one after the note below caused a brick and have had a much better time with it.
Important! For my first real contribution to this thread, I wanted to give a warning, don't mess with the BIOS options if you can help it on these devices. I simply changed the "Boot to State when Power is resumed" from G0 to S5 and the tablet no longer powers on. It's charging, but nothing is happening from the buttons. So I guess it's to the exchange with this one.. Learned for the next one though :/ [Update: Turns out that it caused an actual brick, lesson learned, don't mess with the Power Management firmware settings! There's no good way back from a brick caused by UEFI firmware settings, you apparently have to reflash the BIOS using an SPI programmer to fix those. These manufacturers really should be designing their firmware better (and not using 64-bit firmware on a 64-bit processor, shame on them for that travesty!)]
Edit 2: I ran into an actual issue that I can reproduce pretty frequently. With the native Windows auto-rotation on, going from Landscape to Portrait (or vice-versa) leaves the touchscreen in this weird state where it's still looking for touch input from the previous orientation. Not sure if this is a Windows 10 version 1709 build 17043+ bug, but it appears to be, as the issue does not happen if I turn rotation lock on and manually change orientation. It's an interesting issue to say the least. [It appears after browsing the feedback hub that this is indeed a Windows 10 Insider bug, if you are affected by this, turn off auto-rotation and then manually rotate the screen using Settings, the touch input works as expected then.]
Hi, thanks for the great info! I'm trying to start a little robot makerspace and wanted to mount these little cheap tablets on mobile robots. The only issue appears to be not being able to use USB devices while supplying external power to the device. It sounded like you mentioned this is somehow possible, could you elaborate on that?
Thanks!
Jesse
ShadowEO said:
Edit 2: I ran into an actual issue that I can reproduce pretty frequently. With the native Windows auto-rotation on, going from Landscape to Portrait (or vice-versa) leaves the touchscreen in this weird state where it's still looking for touch input from the previous orientation. Not sure if this is a Windows 10 version 1709 build 17043+ bug, but it appears to be, as the issue does not happen if I turn rotation lock on and manually change orientation. It's an interesting issue to say the least. [It appears after browsing the feedback hub that this is indeed a Windows 10 Insider bug, if you are affected by this, turn off auto-rotation and then manually rotate the screen using Settings, the touch input works as expected then.]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can confirm the strange rotation behavior, on the 610L. I got out of it by hooking up an OTG cable, keyboard and mouse.
Boot up and log in, rotate to landscape and reboot, not messing with the touch screen. After the reboot, the touch screen worked in landscape, and seems to be in sync again.
I installed 17083, that was a chore, and all seems well. However I am getting app crashes, which I think is an OS issue. (currency ran sfc /scannow - no probs. And dism /online /cleanup-image /startcomponentcleanup /resetbase) Next is to run chkdsk and reboot... I have no real hope this will take care of things until the next fast build, which could be in a week or two at the moment.
To get the recent build installed, I had to run a custom script, to clean up all the known temp and softwaredistribution/downloads folder. Additionally I removed the upgrade assistant and one drive. Then ran the Windows Update trouble shooter, and ran (compact /compactos:alwasy) and set NTFS compression on the C drive, ignoring all errors. I was able to get 16GB free, and finally able to install the latest Fast Insider's Build.
Some of these things are not recommended, however extreme conditions require extreme measures... 32GB MMC Crive is a bit restricted.
jjurban55 said:
Hi, thanks for the great info! I'm trying to start a little robot makerspace and wanted to mount these little cheap tablets on mobile robots. The only issue appears to be not being able to use USB devices while supplying external power to the device. It sounded like you mentioned this is somehow possible, could you elaborate on that?
Thanks!
Jesse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am having mixed results here. I plainly am not getting good results with an OTG/HUB combo with three power settings. I am not getting power and USB/date to the micro USB port, as the same time. It's either/or.
610L - Nope, one or the other. I originally thought it was possible, but it's not.
560L - Nope, just confirmed, same result as the 610L - will charge in power+data mode, while completely off.
I have confirmed as well, 17063 build, on both the 610L and the 560L, has this strange screen rotation, mouse, touch screen orientation lock thing. That is, the screens rotate, but the touch alignment does not. The mouse pointer only moves in the same space as if it was prorate mode. Touch is fully prorate mode, while the screen rotates to landscape. Then got the BSOD (green screen)... Rebooting while in landscape mode, (requires a mouse), does fix the issue. Touch alignment comes back with screen rotation. (works on both models)
I see a future problem which I think we will have to address on our own. No help from TMax/NuVision I suspect.
When the microcode is finalized by Intel, we will have to come up with a solution to update the code, to protect against Meltdown and Spectre.
I have doen this before, prior to Compaq merger, on the HP VLi8 and VL400. But I don't know if it's possible to inject new microcode on the TMax firmware/bios update.
As you can see above, I have listed a number of firmware for our tablets, I am hoping we can work with some recent purchasers and see if there's an arrangement, where we could come to trade.
The USB OTG ACA support is weird. There are times it does work and times it does not. I have two USB OTG hubs that support supplying the tablet power while USB OTG is in use. With one hub, this works fine; with the other though, it will either not charge, or it will claim to be charging, but I assume not receiving enough power on the tablet side to charge the tablet enough while it's in use. It does however work, I have used it multiple times already with my 560L.
As for storage space, yes, I recommend running
Code:
compact /compactos:always
after each update. You can also get away with storing your user profile on the MicroSD card (and applications, thus rendering the internal storage an OS only drive)
As for my previous complaint about screen rotation, this disappeared after the upgrade to 17083. It was confirmed to be a problem with the Desktop Window Manager service by Microsoft and even had a fix posted to the Feedback Hub entry for the issue.
@CraveTech It may indeed be possible to modify our firmware, but the risk of doing so may outweigh the benefits. Windows already has user-mode mitigation of Spectre and Meltdown that isn't dependent on the microcode to be installed. We also have to worry about the possibility of bricking the devices without recovery (at least in my case, as I don't have access to an SPI programmer, nor do I feel comfortable cracking this thing open) seeing as a single option change in the BIOS effectively bricked the device.
anyone try to unrar the current image from nuvision for model w610L
test the archive and i get errors.
same with drivers.
tried newest unrar and also older version.
wtf??
ShadowEO said:
The USB OTG ACA support is weird. There are times it does work and times it does not. I have two USB OTG hubs that support supplying the tablet power while USB OTG is in use. With one hub, this works fine; with the other though, it will either not charge, or it will claim to be charging, but I assume not receiving enough power on the tablet side to charge the tablet enough while it's in use. It does however work, I have used it multiple times already with my 560L.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the model of the one that works for you?
I just got a TM800W610L the other day and have been looking for one that works with this tablet.
Thanks
netstat_EVO said:
What is the model of the one that works for you?
I just got a TM800W610L the other day and have been looking for one that works with this tablet.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the exact hub I had the best experience on so far (I am still buying and trying hubs) was this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LTHBCNM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It charged when it said it was charging and had no qualms with the other devices. There's a Cerrxian branded 4-port rectangular hub which doesn't seem to work well at all for my devices. Even when the Cerrxian says the system is charging and the system shows it, it still dies. I assume that it just isn't supplying enough power to the VBUS :/
ShadowEO said:
the exact hub I had the best experience on so far (I am still buying and trying hubs) was this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LTHBCNM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It charged when it said it was charging and had no qualms with the other devices. There's a Cerrxian branded 4-port rectangular hub which doesn't seem to work well at all for my devices. Even when the Cerrxian says the system is charging and the system shows it, it still dies. I assume that it just isn't supplying enough power to the VBUS :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. I had seen that one on Amazon and quickly glossed over it since it had a switch for OTG/Charge, so I assumed it couldn't do both simultaneously. At $7 I'd say it's a cheap enough experiment though. Thanks for the info.
netstat_EVO said:
Interesting. I had seen that one on Amazon and quickly glossed over it since it had a switch for OTG/Charge, so I assumed it couldn't do both simultaneously. At $7 I'd say it's a cheap enough experiment though. Thanks for the info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I was surprised too, but it worked with my Nexus 7 and LG G2 with their ACA enabled kernels. I had to fidget with the switch a little before charging started, but I was able to confirm in Ubuntu Touch on the Nexus 7 that it still saw the USB devices via lsusb. I seem to have lost that exact hub within the past week or so, but I had used it last month to charge the tablet while reinstalling Windows from my flash drive with a keyboard and mouse attached. I can't testify that it actually charged the device since I hadn't been able to see percentages (being in Windows setup and all), but the charging indicator was on, the screen was as bright as Windows normally makes it when charging, and it didn't die while the device was at ~15% battery before starting the installation. The Cerrxian hub couldn't do that and the tablet died while attempting installation, So I assume it was charging the tablet, or at least provided enough power to keep the device's battery stable.
I also just bought another 3-port hub from Acasis, another Chinese company making these cheap devices, but so far, I have yet to get that hub to charge the device either. So it seems that this is a very specific type of configuration inside the adapter, but the device does support OTG+Charge.
That said, Windows itself (at least the desktop versions) does not actually support this feature according to Microsoft's USB driver documentation. That it works at all seems to be a bug in the USB driver, or perhaps the adapters are doing something strange to trick the device into pulling down it's own VBUS and using the external one, possibly independently from the OS (Firmware USB drivers maybe?).
Does anyone have screenshot of the BIOS main menu and the save and exit screen? I'm trying reset to the bios. I was messing MIPI and eDP. I thought eDP was meant for external display port.
lol I fixed it. I gamble on different version of this tablet. I press F3 and Left arrow key for yes and enter. Then I press F4 and Left arrow key for yes to save and restart.
snkchaos said:
Does anyone have screenshot of the BIOS main menu and the save and exit screen? I'm trying reset to the bios. I was messing MIPI and eDP. I thought eDP was meant for external display port.
lol I fixed it. I gamble on different version of this tablet. I press F3 and Left arrow key for yes and enter. Then I press F4 and Left arrow key for yes to save and restart.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to see that you fixed it. I would recommend against modifying the firmware settings if you can avoid it, especially any power management settings as changing one of those can completely brick the tablet leaving you unable to even enter the firmware.
EDIT 2/27: I came across my other OTG hubs and have some bad news, it appears that the OTG+Charge works on the 560L, but doesn't on the 610L. Perhaps NuVision changed USB chipset revisions between models?
Just picked up the 610L last week for $66 as a small option to use a program I need mobile. Updated to 1709 after a struggle (why Microsoft, why?).
Ran great for a week and now it’s starting to freeze and BSOD with mainly “Clock Watchdog Timeout”.
Not really getting any indication of why, I know I can run a log dump, but I often can’t get it to stay on log enough. It will even hang and crash when trying to wipe/revert.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Been a long time since I was active around here
update:
Was able to locate the stock ISO files and made a bootable usb. It’s currently restoring back to OEM status.
The installer is another language, but it’s working.
I think I won’t be install updates until I finish this project I have to do.
Another update:
Getting an intel framework and thermal error in the logs, which I notice while the device gets hot while charging and operating. If I let things be without charging it stays cooler.
I’ve only had had one BSOD and it was for System Service Exception but the logs don’t show much.
I let things update overnight with it plugged in and the screen off and it was still operating this morning.
Not sure if this is a driver issue or not. Seems that way.
Been trying to restore this but get an hour into the nuvision software and it times out. Anyone have an idea how to get this back to stock?