Database Users

xda CE 2005 Project

We seem all to be waiting for a version to leak of the CE 5.0 for our devices, and at the same time we seem to think that this will not happen due to the fact our providers are going to want to ship it on new devices and not upgrade the old ones.
Well Mwang put me in the mood to do some searching and this is what I found.
Because Windows CE is in components, you can create a custom version of the OS that includes exactly the elements your particular device requires—no more and no less. Using the Windows CE development tool called Platform Builder, you can create a customized version of the OS, called an "image," that you then download onto your device hardware for debugging. If your hardware is not available yet, you can run your image and debug your applications on the included x86 emulator. That allows the end-user application developer and the low-level system software developer to work in parallel on the same project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/getstart/bring2market/plan/learn/windowsce/default.aspx
Well it seems that you can download a 120 days trial version which would mean you would have to flash your device in 120 days.
Windows CE Evaluation Version
Windows CE integrates reliable real-time capabilities with advanced Windows technologies to rapidly build a wide range of innovative, small-footprint devices. The evaluation version is a 120-day trial version of Windows CE, valid from the day of installation. The CD and DVD versions include a copy of Microsoft eMbedded Visual C++ 4.0 Service Pack 4. The Evaluation Edition (download) requires you to download eMbedded Visual C++ separately.
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Click to collapse
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/getstart/evaluate/default.aspx
Think this is the homepage
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/windowsce/default.aspx
So what is stopping us ?? Or Cant I read?
Any body in the mood for this??

Downloading now What could go wrong ?

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...50-D311-4F67-9FB3-23E8B8944F3E&displaylang=en
Does this work for you gues ?

I tried this a while back.
Its not as easy as it sounds, firstly you have to correctly setup all the drivers for the hardware.
I wouldnt garantee that it has stuff like the phone apps ready to be compiled in either.
lastly, you have to make it into the correct format for the installer prog, I dont know if the package will output a himaupload.exe compatible rom.
Let me know how you guys do though, it would be nice to compile our own OS!

It's installing on my computer :shock: i want it on my PPC

Well I found a 30 min tutorial on the platform builder and it looks like a lot of the stuff is around (Wifi), What we will miss is the camrea app, but hell its a start.
Ps cant find that link anymore, and the posted link works great.

MDAIIIUser said:
Well it seems that you can download a 120 days trial version which would mean you would have to flash your device in 120 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sure it's a 120 days from the day you install it on your Desktop PC :?

definatly not as easy as you think!
i had the older version and i made some images for X86 machines (to make them thin clients)
you need every driver for the device that it will be installed on so theres alot more required than just the platform builder,
check it out anyway, its still fun to use and you can make custom CE's for old PII machines (routers, thin clients etc)

Well Bosjo, would that not give you 119 days to post a BA Rom?

@MDAIIIUser
Well i dont know, but Im guessing that the ROM itself will expire 120 after Desktop installation

@bosjo
Well you better hurry up and do good documentation so that I can rebuild your posted rom in 118 days.

@MDAIIIUser
Ha ha ha, well don't get your hopes up, Im just a plumber that bought a BA to save some time and get projects more organized........... Well that what just to be a laughf, this device has eaten every spare second I have had since the day i bought it, and it's still crappy...............

What? You mean you can use it as a phone, thought it was only good for the pocket solitair, how did you do it? and can I read it on wiki?
You see I am True born again MDAIIIUser and
"I haveth faith in thou"

I've pu the windows CE 5.0 installer in the upload folder

Good job you got this , see your pm

Hmmm... well, if someone can create a ROM that won't expire or brick my device, I'm willing to help with testing...
Let me know if you need me...

hehe. Its impossible to create WM2005 from the stuff offered with the trial WinCE 5.0 Platform builder.
Hint: WM5 has version 5.1. PB offers 5.0

im wondering.. where would you get ALL the drivers from? im sure HTC will not be willing to help us here..

@Manich
I truly respect your post and I am very much aware of not having your knowlege, insight, understanding, hacking competence.
That is why I am amember of this forum, to learn from people like yourself in order to try and get the best for my device. To share what I have learnt with others (I use wiki for that).
So please, please share with us a better idea of how we can get 2005 on a BA. It would save me a lot of time searching on the net, uploading sdk that are of no use as well as moving files on the ftp.
A "it cant be done answer" I could accept if it came from somebody else without your knowlege and I remember reading that somebody wrote something along the lines if it can run it can be cracked (smile).
With alll due respect
MDAIIIUser

Generally it cannot be done as you don't have a board support package for BA or other compatible platform. With lots of hacking and reverse engeneering you can write all drivers and all applications absent from Platform Builder (like cprog, SMS client, SIM toolkit, etc), but it would be only a waste of time. It would take as much time and would be as useless as making a Linux for BA. Better buy a device that originally ships with OS you want.
The only hope for getting WM5 on BA is that some person from MS would offer it or someone would get a device with such a ROM. Even a locked device with a signed ROM would help.

XDA new OS

Hi
ok heres my idea
we takes a htc hermes and fully wipe all the memory, radio gsmrom and os roms and rewrite the partition table so all we have is a ipl and spl roms left
then we customise a spl for efficiency and to remove the radio functions and any unneeded functions
then we write a new base kernel that is original and lightweight using nesscary drivers from linux source tree if we need them then to create a lightweight enviroment from the ground up with the ablity to run wince applications and linux applications and then my plan is too either turn it into a gaming / video / camera
ok questions
why?
it is mainly to show it can be done
but also i have a htc hermes and htc universal and i always use the universal
so i dont want to use the hermes for phone usage, but it would be good to have a gaming console off of it or video player because it would make the battery last longer and i find that playing games and wtching videos on wince is often slow and jumpy and this way we can access the raw power of the pda
do the experts on these fourms think this is possible?
i know it will be a long and tedious task but i think it will provide a better replacement then linux ontop of windows ce
i do have a fair bit of kernel and bootloader experience and am ok with asm learning ARM shouldnt be too hard, and im a CS student with plenty of free time
so what do you guys think?
i will be making a more detailed specification over the next week this is jsut for opinuon and feed back
Lloyd

lloydsparkes said:
Hi
ok heres my idea...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it would work... The full ROM image is in 3 parts, at the very least, the radio ROM itself is stored on the PGA that handles the hardware - so doesn't affect the base OS anyway so nothing to gain by going near that.
I guess, in theory, if you _really_ knew what you were doing you could write yourself a new OS part assuming you'd worked out the hardware addressing for all the bits you would want to use/need to use in your OS.
I think the project to try and get Linux running on Hermes a while ago sorted some of this stuff out...
See this thread and this wiki page
Certainly the wiki page has some extremely useful info should such a kernel rewrite be attempted.
HTH and good luck!

ok kool thanks
i have plenty of spare time so i will research it alot more my only resaon for wnating to touch the radio rom is to get more memory but kool thanks

starting a process on incoming call and stopping when the call is answered

Hi,
I am trying to write a small application for my WM6 phone device.
What I intend to do is :
- write the application in c#
- it will be a background application (daemon)
- starting to blink leds of my phone (I have a dll which I know how to call from within a C# app)
- stopping this process when the call is answered or the ringing state is passed
- no forms will be used (as it will be a background application which will only play with leds)
- when the exe is called a second time , it should disable itself
Unfortunately, I could not succeed a few months ago as seen here :
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2454023&SiteID=1
Then , I had some other issues to deal with and left the project. Now I want to start over, fresh...
However, I am not sure of what is the most acceptable solution for this.
As I do not want to load the CPU or memory with unneccessary processes, I want to be able to do it correctly.
Could someone show me the path ?
Please take a look at the thread that I gave the URL above. At that time we discussed this but I couldn't achieve it.
Thanks for any help, comments...

SystemState class seems to only work if you have a form based application. Which is silly I know. Basically the only solution is do dump the daemon idea and have a form based app but hide the form.

thanks for your reply.
what do you mean by "dump the daemon idea" ? do you mean I shouldn't use it ?
if I create a form based app and hide the form, which method should I use to start the process when phone starts ringing ?
p.s : english is not my native language so I may misunderstand some phrases.

yes he means forget the daemon..and i recommend using C++ as it uses less system resources plus its fast .. im currently developing my first Kitchen in C++ if u want i can work with you also

I agree with you; of course c++ is faster but it's not as easy as c#.
what do you mean by kitchen ?
I would like to work with you but my intention is just creating a simple application. This is not my job, you see ?

A kitchen is a place where you can cook your OWN ROM for your Windows Mobile Device..currently its for Himalaya Only ..check it out here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=378498
for me its not a JOB also its just my hobby ..im also a student in 12th grade

thanks for your kind offer. however, I wouldn't like to take your time for my very simple application
If you tell me the correct and easiest method to invoke my application and start its process, I can write the application. I'd just consult you if I'm stuck.
If you are also interested in this app. I can always send you the source code.

sure sure..send me the source....i am not doing much at the moment any way..except for re-writing the tools in C++..i have another useful suggestion..u can use MortScript to this but then it will be different

if you pm me your email address , I can send you the current source code.
But I am not sure if what I wrote is the best way of doing it.
by "best" I mean least cpu power used.

ather90,
did you receive my email ?

yeah i got the source..but there is a problem..you have built this on WM6 Pro SDK..not on WM5..i dnt have WM6 SDK..so i couldnt work yet..but will download it today..its better if you can switch it to WM5 SDK ( it will be same for WM6/6.1 i guess).

I don't know how to convert it to WM5 SDK.
If you tell me I can switch...

NO probs..the SDK is almost downloaded..i figured i might as well download the SDK caz i will need later

ok; waiting for your update...

any updates ?

Useful Information for people new to XDA and Windows Mobiles

My first post.
First of all to all the seniors, gr8 forum u guys got here.
Second, it's got so much information I cant make head or tail of anything
I am going to be purchasing a HTC P3400i WM 6.0 version soon, most probably in the next week or so.
This is the first time am going to be using a WM device so I was trying to get a feel of things by reading through the posts here.
I have few questions,
1. What exactly is a ROM, why is it called so and will it void my warranty?
2. I understand it is possible to give the p3400i a "touchflow" look can i do it w/o using a "ROM".
3. When using a WM device what are the basic things that one should learn/understand/take care of??
4. Which posts should I go through and what order to understand the whole concept of WM devices, without actually experimenting with my own device.
5 Finally thanks in advance looking forward to your replies and guidance.
P.S: I sincerely hope my post is in the correct section, coz a lot of my questions are of the "General" category.

1. ROM is actually "Read Only files in your pda" ... Its actually the OS and its files running on your gadget........The default OS in p3400i or gene100 comes with lot of junk files and drivers and the RAM will not be sufficient to run all the new Programs....SO dvlpers are cooking faster ROMS than the default one by modifying these files and drivers..... also they make use of files from other faster devices.....YEs it will void your warranty... But normally all the software issues can be rectified.......
2.YEs u can give ur pda touch flo without using by softwares like.......M2D , SPB Mobile shell, Pointui......etc...etc.... But it will faster it will be better if its in a ROM....
3. There are many things.....one advice.....do a research before doing anything stupid on your device,...... Ask lot of questions and doubts...... dont get ur device bricked......
4.Read the Sticky Thread by Sumit before flashing........

Great answer go4thomman Here are my views :
1. A ROM actually is an image, much like images of CDs you create with burning software. It contains the Windows Mobile Operating system, Drivers to run your device as well as Manufacturer made programs to make the best use of device. All these things are packed into a single file, much like you do with zip files. Your phones contains 128 MB of memory for putting things on it. So to provide base functionality to the device, this ROM is written to that memory and that portion is made read only so that things like viruses (and humans ) don't mess around with the important files. The concept of ROM is there only to make this process simpler, as you don't have a CDROM drive in your mobile to pop a cd and install OS into it. Also a phone is expected to come in ready to use condition, not like a computer. So a ROM provides all the software related functionality to your phone. After that, rest of the remaining memory becomes your phone memory.
Device Manufacturers don't allow making custom roms and flashing them to phones as it makes it difficult for them to provide support. So they lock the device using their digital certificates as protection. This locking is done in the special part of the phone called the SPL (Second Program Loader) and the lock is called CID (Carrier IDentifier). SO to unlock the phone, you need to install a SPL that is CID unlocked but this is against the warranty policy of HTC or any other manufacturer for that matter. Plus the process is dangerous and if not done properly can make your device non functional, non booting also called a "Brick" coz the only thing you can then do with it is using it like the one
Fortunately, we have some really good people here who have developed safe unlocking methods as well as unbricking solutions for certain situations (but not all). Two such people that have worked for GENE SPL are Olipro (old gene) and Orefkov (new gene).
For more info regarding this and to know how to do it, ready the sticky post by me.
2. Touchflo refers to two things, Finger scrolling in applications and the Manilla 2D interface. Finger scrolling is something that you will find in recent versions of Windows Mobile OS. So if you upgrade to newer ROMs you will get it. There is also a 3rd party driver available called FTouchFLO but the older versions have problems and newer are not free.
The Manilla 2D interface, which HTC calls TouchFLO in its specs but manilla inside the ROM, is a Today plug in that allows accessing most of the phone functions without going through the usual Windows Mobile OS menus. This plugin is great, looks cool and works nicely. But its disk and ram footprints are quiet large. so HTC only uses it with devices which have 256 MB flash memory and 128 MB of RAM. It is possible to use this plugin on GENE but using it from phone memory is not recommended as it is way too slow that way. When it is cooked into the ROM, it takes half the space as ROM files are compressed and runs smoother. Cons of this plugin are that it acquires all of the screen space so you cant use any other plugin with it, it doesn't even allows to enable any other plugin, It hogs considerable amount of RAM, Decreases the battery backup by 5%, and is not easily customizable.
3. There is not much special you have to do to take care of this baby, its quiet sturdy. But do keep these things in mind:
a. Discharge the battery fully atleast once a week.
b. Use a good quality screen protector with the screen, never ever do cold lamination on the screen, it damages it. Also replace the protector every 6-8 months or so.
c. Avoid hard tapping on the screen, its quiet sensitive and if its not responding, its probably because software is hanging. Dont hit your hardware for that
d. Keep it away from liquids, get cold lamination on the rest of the body to avoid scratches.
e. Keep the volume at a point less than full, speaker sounds good that way.
f. Keep brightness and power settings to the minimum that you prefer, to save battery.
4. This is a forum not a book so i cannot recommend you any particular order, but do read things related to flashing and cooking as well as the threads related to ROMs in the gene section. Wiki is also a good place to learn things, as well as do keep an eye on General Discussions and Development and Hacking section for getting important information and software upgrades.
Always Search before you start a thread or be ready for flaming, respect other members, never demand things as you are not paying for anything and nobody owes you anything, And read thoroughly and between the lines before attempting anything with your phone.
Good luck!

One more thing, rename this thread to "Useful Information for people new to XDA and Windows Mobiles". That way, i guess i wont have to type it all again. You can rename you threads by double cliking besides the title of the thread in the list of threads.

Thanks a lot guys.

herald, wing, p4351?

hi, i want to buy a htc p4351 and i've been reading the tutorials, faqs, and stuff here, and it looks a great phone with great custom rooms, kitchens and stuff and i will probably but it...
but i dont get the differences between htc herald, t-mobile wing, htc p4351 and htc p4350, are their roms compatible? programs are also compatible?
i also want to know if you can permanently brick it or if you make a original rom backup it is impossible to brick it permanently. also the programs developed for it are in what language? java, c++, .net, all of them?
tthaks for the help

They are all the same device, just from different regions and different keyboard layouts. The insides are the same, thus the ROMs are compatable. The programs are also cross compatable...pretty much all Windows Mobile programs are.
You CAN permanently brick your Wing...tho it is rather hard. Just follow the instructions COMPLETLY. READ EVERYTHING before you start and you should be fine.
WinMo programs are usually coded in .net...but there are Java emulators, they can be written in C..its just the developers preference. Windows Mobile basically supports all the programming languages that standard desktop Windows does. You dont have to compile the programs or whatever though if that is why you ask...most come as a .cab file, which is a self extracting installer.
Hope that helps!

oh ok thaks alot i'm asking about the programming language beacuse i want to know the programing languages avaliable, or if u had to use java, .net or some obscure windows mobile specific programming language, maybe someday make some program for it lol
and about bricking: so it has the bootloader and the os, and u can upgrade then alone, no need to write to the bootloader if u just want to change the os? so even if i make a complete backup with the right memory card and stuff, if i write invalid data to the bootloader all hope is gone? the phone is dead and the only hope is opening it and writing directly into the rom?(if this is possible)
ah also is the architecture open? they provide iformation about the phone's assembly, memory map, maybe some c compiler?
again thaks a lot

bug666 said:
oh ok thaks alot i'm asking about the programming language beacuse i want to know the programing languages avaliable, or if u had to use java, .net or some obscure windows mobile specific programming language, maybe someday make some program for it lol
and about bricking: so it has the bootloader and the os, and u can upgrade then alone, no need to write to the bootloader if u just want to change the os? so even if i make a complete backup with the right memory card and stuff, if i write invalid data to the bootloader all hope is gone? the phone is dead and the only hope is opening it and writing directly into the rom?(if this is possible)
ah also is the architecture open? they provide iformation about the phone's assembly, memory map, maybe some c compiler?
again thaks a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use C++ or C#, or the Java mobile suff, I believe.
Bootloader - This stays the same, and is seperate from the OS, but HardSPLing tweaks the bootloader, etc. And you are NOT writing crap to the bootloader, there's no reason.
ROM's - You can create your own ROM's and tweak the operating system however you like, by using a kitchen, like Ivan's SuperJustKitchen. You can mess around with lotts there.
Flashing Instructions - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=581996
Some Termonoligy - http://thewingster.com/Documents/More info on ROM's.pdf

thanks once again, but if something go wrong while writing to the bootloader, the battery disconnects or whatever happens will the phone be forever dead or there is still hope?
about tweaking the OS, and what if i want to make my own OS, is this possible? i mean, is the phone architecture open? there is information about its assembly, memory map and very low level stuff?
thanks once again for your time

bug666 said:
thanks once again, but if something go wrong while writing to the bootloader, the battery disconnects or whatever happens will the phone be forever dead or there is still hope?
about tweaking the OS, and what if i want to make my own OS, is this possible? i mean, is the phone architecture open? there is information about its assembly, memory map and very low level stuff?
thanks once again for your time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well just don't let anything go bad while HardSPLing!!! HardSPL is the ONLY thing you will be doing to the bootloader. Just be careful when doing it, and everything will go fine. The last resort option from recovering from a brick is "Goldcard", but you shouldn't need to do that.
And idk, you can do lots with Windows phones. People have ported over Android to the Wing! So that proves that lots of stuff is possible. I haven't played around with that stuff though.

As far as the architecture of the phone is considered, it is open...if you can find the information for the various components. The CPU is an Texas Instruments OMAP850, the same as the Wizard and Shadow/Juno use. As far as anything else goes you will be hard pressed to find any real reliable information for things such as the RAM or flash and such. You could possibly ask the boys over at the Wing Linux project if they would make their information available to you because I believe that it is available under the GPL.
Anywho, just as ace said, Android and good old regular Linux are both bootable on the Wing, so the support is there, albeit limited.

oh so even if it is not open there is already reverse engineering enoght to make a new os, so great
thanks

the htc wing(purple) is the phone that tmobile has....the htc p4351(what i have is the unlocked version(black)

Honestly, I wouldn't really put any money into buying a Wing/Herald; my suggestion would be to go for the HD2..