Database Users

Linux for XDA - how was CCC?

Hi!
I just want to know if there is some success for getting Linux on the XDA? I've read that at the CCC Summercamp some people wanted to get starzted with it...
Damn i missed the camp... i live in Berlin, so it wouldnt have been a long travel :-(
greetings.... Jabba

Linux on XDA
Hi,
Just a quick update without any concrete stuff for people to play with yet. Basically good progress was made and a first very bare version of linux on the XDA can be expected soon (say within a month). Note that very bare means you can't do anything with it. However it will be a jump start installation to kickoff porting periperal support to it for anyone who wants to have a go at it.

does it mean that the guys from OPIE will be able to port their system in the near future with these guys from FAMILAR LINUX ?
I've read that they want to program a telephone api as well...

It would be great because Windows CE is not a OS stable enough for a Phone.
I can't imagine I have a phone have to reset every single day.

killercheung said:
It would be great because Windows CE is not a OS stable enough for a Phone.
I can't imagine I have a phone have to reset every single day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I reset my phone most mornings. Switch my XDA on to find that cooked in the XDA-Developers Kitchen Screen! I begin to believe that it actually switches off, not stand by.
This in-stability is the main reason I am moving on to a more stable Symbion device for my main phone. Pop a pay as you go chip in my XDA, it is one kick as toy!!

Jabba said:
does it mean that the guys from OPIE will be able to port their system in the near future with these guys from FAMILAR LINUX ?
I've read that they want to program a telephone api as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In fact, there's an app/lib called gammu on Linux, which is a pretty generic phone manipulating/controlling software. It supports various type of phones including different models of nokia mobiles as well as generic gsm modems, etc.
I've written a phone app for the iPAQ (with the GSM/GPRS sleeve) on linux using this library. The current opie ipaq-phone actually uses gammu as well. So maybe at some point we may go from there.
http://www.mwiacek.com/english/gsm/gammu/gammu.html
I've also thought about starting to do a GPE phone too... :twisted:

so it seems that everything which is missing, is a port of familar Linux to XDA...
i really would like to help, but i'm no C(++) developer... and i guess Linux is NOT written in Java :shock: :wink:

.net 2005

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/welcome/default.aspx
have anybody tried messing with the beta's to make pocketpc applications ?

Rudegar said:
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/welcome/default.aspx
have anybody tried messing with the beta's to make pocketpc applications ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a MSDN subscriber and haven't received it yet. As soon as i get it will try to publish it somewhere in the net...
Cheers

well the link i gave will let you download the beta even if you dont subscriber to msdn
it does require a passport though
havent dl'd it myself though

infolink
Rudegar said:
well the link i gave will let you download the beta even if you dont subscriber to msdn
it does require a passport though
havent dl'd it myself though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on my i-mate now & can't find any download links on that page. It is not even published at http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/recent.aspx download center.
Can you post a link to a pre-DL passport auth page?

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/
https://login.passport.net/ppsecure/uisecure.srf?id=42814

me
I'm using Visual Web Developer 2005 beta.
Completely new to web development.
HTML tags were completely beyond me as was data driving asp stuff.
BUT......
VWD is a dream to use.
I now have an asp site that lets XDA equiped engineers interface with our back office systems. The database integration is simple (tho there are a few bugs) and controls autosize for the target device.
Give it a go

well the only stuff relevant for me is c++ and maybe a bit of c# so i dont end up like some creepy dinosaur like those people who started coding Cobol back in the 70's and are still at it!
suppose one have to keep a bit up with the trend

VS 2005
Hi, there:
I'm using VS2005beta1, and I think its cool except a stupid bug on device application development. I attached some screen shots here. hope these information helpful.
Unlike evc+sdk developer tool set, vs2005 includes all stuff needed to build device applications, and it supports the latest emulator which running native ARM code on an emulated arm920 device, it's much faster than the legacy emulator, the legacy i486 emulator is still suported, check the attached platforms.jpg for supported platforms, notice wince 5.0 device is in the list. :lol:
now we can program in vb.net, c#, or c/c++. the attached screen shots show these different types of projects. convenient enough hur.
well, a big problem arised when develop in c/c++, i did not try vb.net and c# coz I don't like'em. when you create a new project, two platform configurations are created, one for device and the other for emulator. I mentioned the new emulator before, remember? its cpu is an arm920, check the screen shot. this emulator is used when deploy and debug for the project's emulator configuration. but unfortunately, under the emulator configuration, the compile and linker will generate x86 executable which cannot be run on the target emulator. what is worse is that you cannot change to use legacy i486 emulator, you can not even connect to the legacy emulator, the problem may related to the virtual machine network service driver installed by the emulator installation file. I'm still checking it. until this problem is solved can we finally debug on emulator, otherwise we had the only choice to debug on the device, btw I can debug on device with no problem, it can even attach to a running process on the device
at the predicatable future, vs2005 will certainly supercede evc+sdk to become the unified development platform.
why the screen shots appear in a reverse order of my attaching? I think it should be a list instead of a stack. :roll:

Well, I think I´ll have a look at it soon. Could you check if there are any project types for deployment? Means a "setup projekt" for devices?

yeah, I forgot this one, check the shot, it support device cab project.

Running PPC specific code on Smartphone device

Most of us are already aware that PPC and smartphone edition are similar enough to be mostly compatible in their apps across the platforms.
That is, with enough coaxing and the help of input simulators like SPHelper, I've managed to run almost any Pocket PC app on a smartphone device.
Well, until now.
I've officialy run into my first brick wall of sorts, and I'm hoping someone here can shed some light onto the situation.
Since the MS implementation of A2DP has quality issues, I'm trying to run MSI Blueplayer app ( found at http://cweb.msi.com.tw/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_detail.php?UID=619&kind=8) on a smartphone.
Analyzing the cab, I extracted 4 .dll's that go in the \windows dir (msibtstk.dll, msibtapi.dll, CHS.dll and TW.dll), and two .exe program files that go in program files\msi\blueplayer (STLoader.exe, and MPOBCE.exe).
Now, normally its as simple as running the .exe, at least it always has been in the past.
However, every time I hit MPOBCE.exe, all I get is:
"Alert
Can't find MPOBCE or one of its components. Make sure the path and filename are correct and that all the required libraries are available."
Just to control this experiment, I copied the exact same files over to a PPC device and ran it to find that it DOES work.
Now, I've never encountered PPC specific code before- in fact, I didn't even know such a thing was possible. Has anyone see/heard of this sort of thing before?
Can someone help me take this apart and find out what makes it work on a PPC only? Perhaps a PPC-specific path (if there is such a thing)?
At this point, as much as I'd like to get this working, I'm just as much intellectually curious as to what would cause a program to only operate on a PPC installation.

Hello Dishe.
Your problem is simple: Certain DLLs that come built in Pocket PC version of windows mobile do not exist in the Smartphone version. An example is MFC DLLs.
What you need to do is get hold of 'dependency walker' which is a neat little app that MS incorporated in to VS 6 (though I understand it was written by an independent developer and should be available separately).
It will show you exactly which DLL files each exe is linked to. You then have to get a good copy (from a ROM dump) of the needed DLL and put it in windows directory.
Hope this helps.

That's a great idea. Thanks! I never heard of the dependency walker before, but it sounds like a perfect tool for this. I'll have to check it out on my office computer (I don't have VS 6 at home).
I wont be back in my office until wed., so if anyone had a bit of spare time, I'll attach the files here for someone to examine.
If anyone wants to look into it and tell me what dll's are required, I can get ahold of them from a healthy Pocket PC image.
Thanks!
This zip file has the two .exe's contained in the installation. I think only mpobce.exe is complaining about missing components, though.

Oops, apparently I should have checked first...
Dependency Walker is a free app. I downloaded it and tried it out.
It lists a bunch of .dll's, most of which I had on smartphone.
However, the two missing ones are:
mfcce300.dll
olece300.dll
Now, I'm not exactly sure what these do, so I need to look into it some more. Does anyone have any clue what these are for? If I copy them from a Pocket PC, will they operate on a smartphone?

Hi Dishe.
I guess I should have been more clear: Dependency Walker was written as freeware by an independent developer, but M$ liked it so much they decided to grab it for VS.
Any way, mfcce300.dll is MFC version for PPC (if you are not familiar with MFC, it's a collection of "ready code" that simplifies writing apps in c++)
It comes built in for PPCs but not for smartphones for some reason. If you have a good dump check that DLL with dep. walker as well, I am pretty sure it is linked to a few others.
olece300.dll - is a COM support dll. I won't even go there because I really hate COM (that's Component Object Model, not com port) and I am really not sure my self what the DLL does.
If you do get a good version of those two you should be able to get the app running.

levenum said:
Hi Dishe.
I guess I should have been more clear: Dependency Walker was written as freeware by an independent developer, but M$ liked it so much they decided to grab it for VS.
Any way, mfcce300.dll is MFC version for PPC (if you are not familiar with MFC, it's a collection of "ready code" that simplifies writing apps in c++)
It comes built in for PPCs but not for smartphones for some reason. If you have a good dump check that DLL with dep. walker as well, I am pretty sure it is linked to a few others.
olece300.dll - is a COM support dll. I won't even go there because I really hate COM (that's Component Object Model, not com port) and I am really not sure my self what the DLL does.
If you do get a good version of those two you should be able to get the app running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the help, I'm realizing there's a lot more to this I should have known before embarking on such a task. I've never had such a problem doing this before, I guess MFC isn't so popular!
Anyway, I need a good ROM dump, I haven't been able to aquire one. In the mean time I tried some files I found searching google... didn't expect it to work, but tried it anyway. Still complained of missing files- you're right, I'll bet MFC is calling more dll's as well that I need.
Perhaps there's hope...

You were right... I just needed more .dlls!
I found a whole series of .dlls required by mfcce300.dll that my smartphone was missing, so I put them all in the program directory and it opened!
Problem is, its not so stable... the files were pulled from a ce.net-4.1 set of files since I don't have access to a wm5 rom image.

One more thong I should have thought about earlier:
Some COM dlls, maybe even olece300.dll have a function called DllRegisterServer that writes them to registry as COM provider (under HKCR\CLSID).
Check to see if I am right using Dep. Walker and if so try to get regsvr32.exe or something similar for the PPC. (On a PC you use regsvr32 somedll.dll to register a COM server)
This may help with stability issue.

Simple OS? OS GUIs 4 ur PPC

hey,
have any of u tried this application for pocket pc? check it out on this link http://simpleos.iroot.ca/index.php
apparently, it makes ur pocket pc GUI exactly similar to a MAC or Windows XP (an emulator of some sort). It comes with additonal plug-ins that you can download which emulates applications such as outlook, word, media player, etc
It's a freeware and it looks pretty interesting. My PPC has been in the shop for repair so I have not been able to try this (and probably wont be able to for at least a week) but if anyone out there can give it a shot, let me know ur feedback on this app (is it stable?does it mess up ur PPC?). from the screenshots and videos, a WM2003 version was used so I dont know if it's compatible with WM5 or WM6. I cant wait to try it out when my PPC gets back from the shop.

Initial testing shows that is it quite slow. But that maybe due to the wizards slow processor on WM6. Does not install as it should. I believe that to be an WM6 issue. Other then that overall looks good but not recommended for a wizard. Also get designed for VGA resolution. I think that is due to the fact that it doesn't install and does not configure the software.
My initial view is positive. but need to do some more testing. A cab install file would be useful.
Cheers,

thanks for checking it out! According to the support forums in the site, u can change the VGA setting. Quoted "if you unzip the files from zip, unside a "bin" folder there is a file "kernel.xml" open in notepad and change the 64 to 32 and save". Dont know if this will fix it though.
Also this application is open source i think, so if any of our great programmers here at xda-developers can have a crack at it, i'm sure someone can improve this promising application and make it fully operational for all of us here (like what A_C did with the ILock). The programmer did say that he is open to the idea of someone continuing the development of this program as he does not have a lot of free time to work on this (check the forums section in the site)

Programming CE, Book and resource recommendations

Hello,
After a decade of not doing C, I find that alot of things have changed when programming c++ native for CE. Even things like:
string somestring;
no longer function. Wow!.
strcpy has been replaced with StringCchCopy. Wow, MS has done a number here... and so on...
Anyhow I searched xda and found allot of good threads. But what if I'm looking at re-learning C++, with a focus on CE programming only? What books and other resources would you recommend, its almost like starting from scratch. I got vs2005 + emu + been reading allot of MSDN, did some basic apps. etc.
BTW: How the .... do you declare a variable length string???
and in VS2005 is running the debugger the only way to get the app to start automatically ???
Thanks

*bump*, anyone?

Couple of notes:
1) I strongly recommend avoiding VS, it is unbearably slow and balky.
2) strcpy and all the other functions are still supported by c runtime on CE (VS 2005 complains about them but you can ignore it). The problem is all windows API on CE use UNICODE so you have to declare strings as WCHAR (thats MS speak for unsigned short) and use wcscpy, and such.
3) The only book I know on CE specifically is this and I only read the two sample chapters online, so can't really recommend it. (Though the sample chapters were very useful). What you need is to get a good book on Win32 programming that will get you well on your way.
4) There is an MFC class CString which wraps up all string related functions very nicely. If you are not using MFC but clean C/C++ the only thing I can think of is malloc and free or the C++ versions new and delete.
Check out the links in my sig if you want to see code examples of small but functioning apps.

I disagree with levenum's comment on VS, but agree at the same time (weird I know). I wouldn't use VS for native development because it has A LOT of extra features that I think would be useless for native developers. Also, the lighter eVC++ has pretty much everything you need to write native apps.
I had this book called "Programming Windows CE 3.0" or something along those lines a few years ago. I got it for like $3 on Amazon. If you can find an updated version of that (or even the old version would be useful) then you should buy it. It will show you all you need to know to get started. You can learn the new api's from browsing msdn.
If you're only a little rusty with C/C++ I would suggest jumping right in to the Sdk samples and seeing how they do things.

Thanks, the reason why I wanted to use VS is so that maybe later I wouldn't mind going into MFC. So having one platform would be nice.
So far I have done some basic things, like drawing, etc, but I find I'm having a harder time making strings and including the api's to work. Almost all of the msdn examples fail to compile properly.
I have an old book MFC for Windows 95 by MS, is it even worth looking at ?

robp said:
I disagree with levenum's comment on VS, but agree at the same time (weird I know). I wouldn't use VS for native development because it has A LOT of extra features that I think would be useless for native developers. Also, the lighter eVC++ has pretty much everything you need to write native apps.
I had this book called "Programming Windows CE 3.0" or something along those lines a few years ago. I got it for like $3 on Amazon. If you can find an updated version of that (or even the old version would be useful) then you should buy it. It will show you all you need to know to get started. You can learn the new api's from browsing msdn.
If you're only a little rusty with C/C++ I would suggest jumping right in to the Sdk samples and seeing how they do things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
could you provide some links for msdn. also i know how to program in c but how do i compile a program for windows ce could you recommend a free one. thanks

The only way to code for Windows Mobile for free is to use embedded Visual C++. You'll have to google it to find a link.
Once you have that downloaded, check out:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb158662.aspx
The new solution files most probably won't open in eVC++ but you can create new projects and add the source files yourself.
You'll want to look at the samples in the Win32 folder.

robp said:
The only way to code for Windows Mobile for free is to use embedded Visual C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not entirely true - there's still ceGCC (it works on linux or windows using cygwin) - however this one lacks resource (window, forms, etc) editor (but if you have resources already created it will compile/link properly). But it works great with apps where you want to handle all the graphics and user interaction by yourself (like games, or programs with 100% custom UI), for example using SDL, pocketHAL, etc.
Also, wxWidgets seems to have support for windowsCE, and might be made to work with ceGCC, but i haven't tested it yet.

Sorry, I actually meant to put "(I think)" after that sentence lol.
Actually I think you should be able to use any C++ compiler as long as you have the necessary libraries, and I think all the libs you need are in the sdk download. But the easiest route for beginners in native coding is probably eVC++

Well, now i can agree with you
That is, unless you want to create games - in that case ceGCC+XFlib might be a good way to go for someone with general programming knowledge, but not familiar with winCE-specific coding. Some games coded with it (and their sources) can be found on XFlib homepage: www.xflib.net.

thanks for the info

Ok, as I wouldn't mind at a later time going into MFC, and building dll's for mobile. How much "harder" would it be for me to learn VS2005 native for ce instead of using evc++ ?
Just trying to weight the cons and the pros. BTW where can I get eVC ?
Thank you.

Two more free options: PellesC and Lazarus + WinCE add-on

I don't think it would much harder. Once you get the hang of it you'll find that it makes life much easier. If you buy a boxed retail version it comes with a nice book that will take you from n00b to master in a few hours (not really but it's still a great reference).
I think the hardest part of upgrading to newer versions of VS is learning the new project file setup. Atleast that's what it looks like from watching other students at my school go from VS6.0 to VS2k5 and 2k8.
Also, I should note that I prefer VS2008 hands-down, but I don't disagree with other people who say eVC++ is faster. While I haven't done any real native development since eVC++ 4 was new, I still dabble a bit (especially since getting active on this forum) and VS2005 works great to me.
So, my advice would be to use the newest tools available to you, unless money is an issue. But don't be worried about upgrading. Your life will only get easier once you do.

robp said:
Also, I should note that I prefer VS2008 hands-down, but I don't disagree with other people who say eVC++ is faster. While I haven't done any real native development since eVC++ 4 was new, I still dabble a bit (especially since getting active on this forum) and VS2005 works great to me.
So, my advice would be to use the newest tools available to you, unless money is an issue. But don't be worried about upgrading. Your life will only get easier once you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I just got eVC and will give it a try too. But I am pretty much used to vs2005. I do not think I can't afford the vs2008 right now. How much difference is there between 2005 and 2008 when it comes to programming for WM?
I'm looking to create some commercial applications for WM. For the last 10 years I'v been doing .com apps, now I figured I would do some for the mobile platform. We have all the graphics/design/marketing guys for .com, so it should work out just fine for WM.
One thing we noticed when working with exec type people is their frustration, I see exactly how we can help them resolve their frustration with WM, Symb, and java type phones...
Thanks

marek101 said:
Well I just got eVC and will give it a try too. But I am pretty much used to vs2005. I do not think I can't afford the vs2008 right now. How much difference is there between 2005 and 2008 when it comes to programming for WM?
I'm looking to create some commercial applications for WM. For the last 10 years I'v been doing .com apps, now I figured I would do some for the mobile platform. We have all the graphics/design/marketing guys for .com, so it should work out just fine for WM.
One thing we noticed when working with exec type people is their frustration, I see exactly how we can help them resolve their frustration with WM, Symb, and java type phones...
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly I wouldn't rush to upgrade. VS2008 is better, but doesn't add much to the WM development arena.
And if you already have VS2005 and are used to it, I would stick with that and forget about eVC++. You should give the compact framework a try. I promise you'll love it

compact framework, that's a part of the .NET isn't it?.
For the time being, for learning purposes, I think I will stick with the native for now. Once I get a grip, I will explore .net. The thing is I really don't like bulky apps for WM. Most of the apps I came across that required the .net framework were slow, any apps that use the .net with a today plug in seem to really slow down my phone.
BTW is HTC Home plug in written with the .net?
Thanks

marek, it seems to me that you are under the impression that you need VS 2005 to use MFC.
eVC fully supports MFC as well as creating DLLs and MFC DLLs.
It admit the reason I don't like VS is because I only write in native and don't like .NET languages a lot.
Since you want to create commercial apps you should note that any app created with WM 5 SKD will not be backwards compatible with WM 2003 which reduces your clients range.
You should compile with WM 2003 SDK which is forward compatible.

Our primary target audience would be WM6. We will make every effort to make WM5 compatible apps. Yes it does reduces significantly the client base, but also there are many positives...
We are still looking for more programmers for the simple concepts we have developed. I believe this will work out just fine. Having WM5 support is a "would be nice" but not required. WM5 has a bag of problems, 2003 I don't even want to touch it.
Thanks

I have to admit that I love VS because I love using .net
But VS is also a much more powerful editor in general than eVC is. It's still nice but the experience isn't as smooth as it is in newer versions, which is expected since the newer versions build on the previous ones.