Related
For all those who are mildly paranoid about being monitored how much do we really know about the following: The XDA2 changes hands, is the original owner's info still linked to it; the XDA2 is barred, when using it as a PDA does it still send out signals? if so, can these signals be located? can the XDA2 be used to surf without a sim card, if so, are the signals posted to anyone? Can the XDA2 be unbarred? If it can be, is it hardwired to retain its original ID? Does all this sound like the Matrix ... well it may well be! :roll:
sounds like u got sum good dope
email me
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
...but seriously...
Dead Ringer said:
For all those who are mildly paranoid about being monitored how much do we really know about the following: The XDA2 changes hands, is the original owner's info still linked to it; the XDA2 is barred, when using it as a PDA does it still send out signals? if so, can these signals be located? can the XDA2 be used to surf without a sim card, if so, are the signals posted to anyone? Can the XDA2 be unbarred? If it can be, is it hardwired to retain its original ID? Does all this sound like the Matrix ... well it may well be! :roll:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When the radio is switched on the xda sends the imei whether a sim is in place or not, the information of a previous owner is lost once a hard reset is carried out, however some people think that by unclicking permanant save, that the data is lost, well that isnt true because if the next owner switches it back on and you were using the feature before, he will have access to all your data, the only way I found was to delete all contacts, check permanent save, reboot then uncheck it. There is no way known at the moment that is public knowledge that allows you to manipulate imei on xda2. I understand that there are calls from the uk government to have all imei numbers in hardware rather than firmware/software to make it almost impossible to change identity. Just because you are paranoid doesnt mean they arent out to get you. :shock:
Thank you you seem to be THE authority on XDA! You say ""When the radio is switched on the xda sends the imei whether a sim is in place or not"" I am not sure I understand the concept of 'radio' in the xda2. can the radio be switched off/disabled? what signals are sent and how are these managed, by whom? because there is now billing requirement why should this radio signal be monitored? It has been also said that "Paranoia is the belief in a hidden order behind the visible." anon (why do u think he chose to remain anon?)
:arrow: All cellular phones are beacons :!:
If you suspect they are listening, well, they are and all you can do is to make a little harder, thus:
http://www.cryptophone.de/html/products_en.html
It is not paranoia when they are really after you 8)
I want whatever you are smoking man!
Wish I was smoking something man! Maybe some food poisoning from bad lumpia :?
I was in a security presentation and saw how a secuirty engineer from Motorola was able to pinpoint and triangulate 17 different phones in an auditorium and then go down to each unit and "clone" it for surveillance purposes with a GUI application in his laptop. ( With the users permission for the purpose of the demo!)
If they are showcasing this technology, then I guarantee Big Brother
( NSA and NRO specifically) have the capability in a more advanced form and blend it with Exchelon, key word analysis and the like....
have a look at www.followus.co.uk its excellent we use it to track the kids, ( the more cell sites close by the better the fix) its show us they are at near by to where ever they say they are
Yes, I am aware of that service.
It is a good thing for parents and businesses and is not infringing on privacy because it is consentual and voluntary.
It amazes me to see how many peope think cell phones are not easy to trace or tap because they are mobile!
Having started this thread, I was begining to think no-one cared!
Is it worth pulling together all the intelligence on remote monitoring in one place? The benefit of this will be to know what currently done and if it is at all possible tweak the systems to ensure a modicum of privacy.
There is all sorts of legislation protecting privacy and some ensuring civil liberties. What are the implications of mobile phone contracts, for instance? Do they have a duty of care to protect our privacy is there anything in the contracts that limit their liability in this regard, and if so, why?
oh ... and I don't smoke but I'm told that I don't need to!
If you read my posts you'll see that I'm truly a proponent of working thro issues before lambasting a new product, and in fact you'll see that most issues raised are perfectly solvable with PocketPlus 3's close button and a few more apps. However, I'm now down to a few unresolved issues, and quite frankly I HAVE to tell the world NOT to buy this device until these issues are solved - probably by HTC. The bottom line is that there are not yet enough users to provide the critical mass to solve these issues, and one desperaely checks all the JJ forums daily only to find so few new posts it looks like it'll be many many months before the device is usable. What makes matters worse is that HTC don't seem to give a damn - we don't see them on the forums helping us early adopters AT ALL, their own forums do not even have a JJ/universal section - and you get fewer replies on there than you do here! It's shocking!:
1) BT unreliable: Turns itself off. Even when on, a call can come in and you cannot answer. Highly unpredictable so U generally miss the call whilst driving using your knees to steer, battling to open the JJ with one hand, and pumping your BT button with the other. I've battled with Gtec and Jabra BT devices - this IS a JJ issue!
2) GPRS/UMTS not always-on: The whole principle of GPRS was always-on, and UMTS brought us always-on broadband. Instead we have a situation where every app that wants to go on-line establishes a connection, does its thing, and drops the carrier when finishes. The best way to explain is how dial-up used to feel; too much hassle to bother booking those movie tickets on-line, yet once you had always-on broadband you didn't EVER queue at the moveis again! Broadband and wireless has always been more about always-on than about the access. Anton Tomov's GPRS Keep Alive does not solve this on the JJ.
3) No decent PIM: This is a 3-function convergent device; phone, on-line and PIM. The built-in PIM is SO awfully BAD that it defies comprehension. Psion Series 3's were way better than this! Yes, 1998 P3's! On WM2003 devices one merely used PI, AF or PB - or any other apps for that matter. Now none work on the JJ! NONE! You heard me - not a single @#$#@%one! The PI dev/CEO blames the JJ blank screens on a ROM bug and is not prepared to put any more effort into it. AF guys are not even starting to promise beta dates yet - and when they do they'll probably battle with the JJ too. All other calendar apps are blank or unusably slow (ie 2 mins to populate the screen).
4) Notification queue management: We ARE getting dups again! Pocket Mechanic is the only app that removes the sddeamon dup, and it does not have a feature to scan and clean up at midnight. This is going to build up to be an issue over time; we'll hit alarm failures, memory and speed issues, and general applicaiton problems all as per our old XDA's. For non-techie geeks, this alone is a reason to run away screaming!
5) No backup: OMG OMG OMG! This is such an appauling situation, that it is beyond my comprehension that M$ didn't run out to rectify it within 1 day of releasing WM5 over FOUR months ago!!!!! Now we have a device that we CANNOT back up. 1 hard reset and you start over. If you're faint-hearted you're simply not going to test new apps. If ur and early-adopter, then get ready for some hard resets (I've done 3 to date). Non-techie-hardcore-geeks will NOT NOT NOT tolerate this. Not for a single nano-second!
I am not a developer/experts on the PPC, but I have been on the bleading edge for some time. I had a perfectly smooth XDA, then XDAII from the day each came out, and I have used forums like this to solve ALL my problems. I also put hours and hours into it. ie I am not a housewife complaining cos I can;t find a menu item - the above issues are serious and a challenge for anyone with less capability than Buzz.
1) Can't help you there
2) Get the GPRS Always on application that can be found here if you search
3) 2 words for you. Pocket Informant
4) Can't believe this is still an issue
5) Use Sprite backup (best) or use the Backup feature of ACTIVESYNC.
NO NO NO!!
2) Anton Tomov's "GPRS always on" does not work fo this
3) PI fails on JJ within 2 days; blank calendar views which Alex (PI CEO) says is a ROM bug. Honestly if PI worked I would forgive ALL the rest; When it does work PI in VGA is AWESOME.
4) Queue dups definite - but I do concede that it may be a result of PocketPlus301, aeRepeatAlarms, TotalOmmander, or spb GPRS monitor. Havn't had time 2 test 1x1
5) Sprite themselves say it does not work on wm5, and you can find out the hard way by trying to restore. Ditto for sunnysoft. I agree that AS managed contacts etc, BUT I want to backup a state so I can debug apps
<submitted from my JJ - ClubiMate forums do NOT work from a JJ!!>
3, 4 and 5 are Windows Mobile 5 issues, not i-mate issues, so it's a little unfair IMO to reject the JasJar based on just issues 1 and 2. All WM5 devices have these problems. Two of those issues might be solved in future device releases by inlcuding Pocket Informant and a backup util (once one compatible with WM5 is released - there is none yet), but for now, there's not much that can be done while we wait for solutions.
Also, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for MS to fix the duplicates issues. This has been a problem for a long time now. The JasJar is a great device, but we have to accept the fact that it will be a while before we can start using it (and other WM5 devices) to the level we had gotten used to with WM 2003 and 2003 SE.
You buy a new device AND a new OS.
A little patience please.
But the GPRS always on (MSN) is also urgent for me.
Huib
Am I the only one to fnd that WM5 is a complete waste of time and not worth upgradong for let alone buying. It is in fact a huge step back from 2003.
First of all the flaky Activesync 4 which has had minimal testing on anything approaching a real world PC. How could any developer worth anything have not tested this on a machine with half-decent secruity measures, especially moving the sync protocol to use the TCP/IP stack. TCP/IP -> firewall -doh! (not the laughable toy Windows Firewall either).
Onto the operating system itself, where do I start?
1. The new "improved" memory management???? where is the improvement. How can you class something an improvement when it slows everything down, makes usability more difficult.
2. The communications manager. ....why???? a dumb interface hiding access to needed functions, especially when you are setting up a wireless access, why put on a pointless window just to be able to "switch on" a function???
3.GPRS why hide functionality again? Why remove the connect option from the icon on the top bar. Why do I have to start an internet explorer session just to connect to GPRS?
4.Messaging. Why remove the send/receive button? now we have to press menu then navigate to the send/receive function. So much easier to use...I think not... and why is Outlook email the default, we are not all corporate clones yet
5.Contacts. Where are all the customisation funtions, why can't i arrange the display to suit me. Why can't i select more than one contact at a time, which bright spark of an MS designer (whose only experience of the real world is the trip to the coffee machine) thought it was a good idea to only select one contact at a time....
6. Uninstall programmes, doesn't work properly, stupid error message about not being able to uninstall completley, then bits being left over even in soft reset, making a hard reset inevitable. double doh!!!
7.Installation failures, for example installing MS own voice command, warns not to install on anything but main memory but then when that is selected comes up with a classic null error message, and takes up over 50% of the program memory anyway.
For those of us who haven't got time to sit and devise brilliant technical workarounds, for us who have to deal with an irate user group having this approximation of an upgrade forced upon them. WM5 is a complete waste of space.
:evil: :twisted: :x
First, I totally agree with you about ActiveSync 4 - at best the testing and quality control was simply shoddy but not different from a lot of other sw these days.
@1 I like the new memory management even though it contributes to decreased performance. To have everything stored in a non-volatile storage and then execute out of ram is a much better architecture IMHO.
@2 I disagree. The advertised direction of WM5 was toward less use of the stylus which the buttons assigned to things like the Conn Mgr improve. My beef is that there is no GPRS control in Conn Mgr - can't turn it on, can't turn it off. I would like to never have to use the stylus - never!!!
@3 Totally agree!
@4 Before I had to use the stylus - now I don't - much better for me.
@5 Agree.
@6. I didn't find the uninstall to work much better in WM 2003. One almost has to do a soft reset before uninstalling and then I always check afterwards with Resco Explorer for stuff still left around.
@7. I have found that a lot of install errors are with legacy software not upgraded to WM5. In fact, almost all the errors and soft resets on my KJAM have been caused by old software not ready for WM5.
I do wish that before MS puts out a release of any software that they force the developer(s) to live it it for a week or two. Sometimes I think that they do indeed consider the real world as a short walk from their office to the coffee machine. Maybe WM 5.1, 2 or 3 will be better.
Frank
The saying goes "never buy the first iteration of a major release", and it's true. There's teething troubles that should have been caught in testing, but for me the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, specifically stylus-free use, and persistent storage.
We all have different requirements, hence the device won't be right for anyone. I'd imagine that an inevitable service pack will fix some of your complaints, but others really won't be addressed.
As for dealing with an irate user group, well, I wouldn't roll out a device like this to a user group unless I was confident in it. If you work for a network, I guess you've got no choice.
It used to be that early adopters of this sort of thing were geeks/technophiles at heart, but now a phone is a fashion accessory they're getting into everyone's hands quickly... The good news is that pressure should force manufacturers to get fixes quickly.
As for the wish that MS wanting developers to eat their own dog food, well, they do... However, the demographic of an MS developer or even business manager is a bit different to the audience for the device. I would still imagine that a hell of a lot of "focus groups" etc have been involved in designing the OS etc.
I guess sales advisors in the phone retailers should be aware of the potential pitfalls and be advising people as to whether the device really is for them or not. I've had huge problems with AS4.0/1 and my firewall, but I know that I'm on my own and that phoning t-mobile would be as much fun and use as kicking myself hard in the crotch.
I think the AS4 issue is going to be the single largest issue posing a challenge in the uptake of newer devices in the enterprise area. Large companies will not compromise on their existing security profiles just because MS can't get its newest product to coexist with even their own firewall... What a joke!
Activesync 4.1 is much better than AS4.0. I have been using build 4807 shortly after getting my K-JAM, and its much improved over the original 4.0. I updated to the beta build 4807 about a day after getting my KJAM (and installing 4.0) and its heaps better.
fmcgirt said:
My beef is that there is no GPRS control in Conn Mgr - can't turn it on, can't turn it off. I would like to never have to use the stylus - never!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The red phone button will kill a GPRS session if you just hold it down for a few seconds..
Dox
Dox said:
fmcgirt said:
My beef is that there is no GPRS control in Conn Mgr - can't turn it on, can't turn it off. I would like to never have to use the stylus - never!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The red phone button will kill a GPRS session if you just hold it down for a few seconds..
Dox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know about turning it off - but you need to run something like Messaging or PIE to turn it on - and some of my internet apps will no longer cause a GPRS startup so I have to run something else first - insane!!!
Frank
I feel your frustrations. I don't get it either. Microsoft seems to market their stuff to guys with a lot of time on their hands to troubleshoot problems. I always feel like a beta tester...within about 10 minutes of using something, I usually find some kind of glitch, bug, or problem like the Activesync bugs.
Wouldn't this be obvious to a big company who spends a lot of effort on R&D?
inbox7 said:
I feel your frustrations. I don't get it either. Microsoft seems to market their stuff to guys with a lot of time on their hands to troubleshoot problems. I always feel like a beta tester...within about 10 minutes of using something, I usually find some kind of glitch, bug, or problem like the Activesync bugs.
Wouldn't this be obvious to a big company who spends a lot of effort on R&D?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe they have so much effort in R&D and so little in Testing and QC because they have learned there are many of us that will buy new, shoddy stuff and spend the time to help get the bugs out that they don't have to bother - just get it out there and all of us dummies will gobble it up..
I am with you in feeling like the beta (or even alpha) tester - it doesn't take that much effort to discover bugs, glitches, inadequate user interface features, sync problems, etc., usually an hour or two with a new device is more than enough for me.
Maybe our expectations about converged devices are way too high. I know I compare the phone part to my old cell phones and without exception think: "Why did they leave out that feature?" or "Why doesn't this work?", "Why is the RF so lousy?", etc. And do exactly the same thing with the PDA part. I really don't think we will ever see a converged device that is as good as two very good separate devices - at least with the present set of OS developers and hardware manufacturers. Their mindset simply won't allow it.
But for me, I like my KJAM very much and even though I hate some of its problems and dumb implmentations, I would never go back to seperate devices. I think my frustrations are more with my feeling that with a little more effort things could be a lot better. And with the prices we pay I think we deserve that effort.
Frank
k_kirk said:
I think the AS4 issue is going to be the single largest issue posing a challenge in the uptake of newer devices in the enterprise area. Large companies will not compromise on their existing security profiles just because MS can't get its newest product to coexist with even their own firewall... What a joke!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could not be more wrong. From direct experience of corporate network protection, WM 5's dependence on AS 4 is a Good Thing (which is why MS state it is a concession to Enterprise pressure). The move to use the standard IP stack means the network manager can regain control of who has access to his network and who doesn't. It puts an end to people connecting their PPC to their work PC and syncing over all the crap they have stored in their home PC, deliberately or otherwise. That includes virus infected files in My Documents, porn, and pirated software/music/video. Or just personal information that in hindsight they rather we didn't see. Millions is invested in protecting corporate networks and this has been long been comprimised by PDA users (on all platforms) "innocently" syncing their personal devices. It's not just one sided - it protects the user against accidentally loading something onto the corporate network that could instantly lead to dismissal under most corporate network usage/abuse policies.
There's no unforeseen "bug", or technical reason why AS4 doesn't work with a firewalled PC. It just needs the appropriate policies setting by the firewall administrator (be that personal or corporate). That's how it should be.
I got tired of the random misbehavior of ActiveSync 4.1 (Official Version) via USB and decided to try a Bluetooth connection using the instructions under the Help Menu. No problems setting it up, connecting or syncing so I think BT is the way to go for me from now on.
Frank
EDIT - Still having problems!!! Faster connecting but still slow "Looking for Changes", hanging, etc. Soft reset sometimes required.
Ineedtoys said:
k_kirk said:
I think the AS4 issue is going to be the single largest issue posing a challenge in the uptake of newer devices in the enterprise area. Large companies will not compromise on their existing security profiles just because MS can't get its newest product to coexist with even their own firewall... What a joke!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could not be more wrong. From direct experience of corporate network protection, WM 5's dependence on AS 4 is a Good Thing (which is why MS state it is a concession to Enterprise pressure). The move to use the standard IP stack means the network manager can regain control of who has access to his network and who doesn't. It puts an end to people connecting their PPC to their work PC and syncing over all the crap they have stored in their home PC, deliberately or otherwise. That includes virus infected files in My Documents, porn, and pirated software/music/video. Or just personal information that in hindsight they rather we didn't see. Millions is invested in protecting corporate networks and this has been long been comprimised by PDA users (on all platforms) "innocently" syncing their personal devices. It's not just one sided - it protects the user against accidentally loading something onto the corporate network that could instantly lead to dismissal under most corporate network usage/abuse policies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although it's annoying, as I can't affect the firewall policy on my work PC, I have to concede it does offer a way to close a big hole in corporate security...
Ineedtoys said:
There's no unforeseen "bug", or technical reason why AS4 doesn't work with a firewalled PC. It just needs the appropriate policies setting by the firewall administrator (be that personal or corporate). That's how it should be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't agree with that though. It should be the case, but in my case (on my own PC), with all the correct policies in place, AS4.1 still refuses to connect until I actually unload the firewall completely. If I set the f/w to "Allow All", it still won't sync. The logs show no packets being rejected, so it should work. The comments on the MS ActiveSync help pages suggesting users may have problems with VPN clients and other applications that slot themselves into the protocol stack suggests that one or both parties are using coding techniques/functions that aren't as robust as they could be and have left, in my case at least, something that looks like a "bug". When it does work smoothly, and I can petition our IT people to amend the corporate policies and maybe open up AS over SSL for my GPRS connection, it'll save them having to shell out for as many Blackberries for people who've already paid for their own devices...
Dox.
There's no unforeseen "bug", or technical reason why AS4 doesn't work with a firewalled PC. It just needs the appropriate policies setting by the firewall administrator (be that personal or corporate). That's how it should be
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love that to be right, but it's really appearing that it isn't. Sygate Security Agent just doesn't seem to be compatible. When set to "pass all traffic", it doesn't work, and when I manually configure around every blocked piece of traffic, it still doesn't work.
Weird...
If you have any suggestions for what else I can do to get this working then I'd really be grateful for them.
I got my MDA Vario on 5th November. It's my first PPC/WM device ever, after owning a Palm T3 for two years and Psion 3c and Revo before that.
For me, ActiveSync 4.0 (supplied with the Vario) has worked smoothly and flawlessly right out of the box over USB and BT connections. I've now upgraded to the new official 4.1 release and that is just as reliable. I'm syncing with my personal laptop running Win XP Pro SP2 and all MS Windows updates.
I have the standard Windows firewall enabled, NOD32 AV and MS Antispyware Beta for my system protection. As I use a NAT router with SPI I think I have enough protection to not need any further/alternative firewalls running.
I haven't added much software to the Vario, just....
SPB GPRS Monitor supplied with the Vario;
Mapopolis mapping and route planning;
Ghisler Total Commander;
Eidos Tomb Raider.
It is all working just fine
I think it's generally well accepted that AS works fine as long as you're not running anything strange (and by strange, I mean "non-Microsoft" ) on the firewall front. Unfortunately some of us are
Chiark, fair enough, I understand that. But I question why people feel the need to run alternative firewalls. I understand they stop "phone home" type contacts, which a NAT router won't, nor Windows firewall, but I feel it is enough to be protected from external attacks and to let my AV and anti-spyware take care of the trojans and worms.
But each to his own, I suppose.
Windows Firewall is not popular with a lot of corporations... My company has decided on Sygate Secure Agent and has deployed it to over 30,000 employees. They're not going to change as a result of an incompatability with AS4!
The point is that MS needs to be working hard to correct this fault, and address the issues in the above posts.
has any one got any new wep cracking tools they would care to share or any bluesnafing/bluejacking tools
Do0d, it is very bad form to be asking for blatantly illegal things in public forum...
Concur
I concur.
Try Google please.
why would you say its illegal there are plenty of reasons for needing such programs eg you have just got a router of ebay it has the wep enabled wouldnt you need a wep cracker to get the key????
bluesnafing tools i have two phones one just for sms but i left it upstairs (am lazy by the way) i have my main phone with all the time i could use the tool to get my sms from the phone upstairs
i wouldnt dream of doing any thing illegal with them unless hacking my own phone and network is illegal
So please people dont be so quick to jump the gun
Well I'm glad to hear you have honorable intentions (and I assumed nothing), I still believe the tools you're asking for are designed explicitly for nefarious/illegal purposes:
- if you bought a router on eBay, why not ask the previous owner what the admin password was and/or perform a hard reset? Hacking the WEP key on your own device might be a legal gray area, but the technology required to do so is designed to break into secured environments (and definitely illegal).
- while it may be convenient for you to access your wife's phone via bluejacking (and yes, that may be a legal gray area), the spirit and intent of bluejacking is certainly illegal and designed for stealing bluetooth datastreams and/or voice conversations.
By the way, there is certainly work elsewhere on this site (such as hacking WM5 onto devices like the BA) which is clearly a violation of license agreements and illegal and certainly not condoned/supported by me, so don't think you're being singled out...
Bottom line: regardless of good intentions, please help keep the Hermes board out of trouble by keeping illegal content out of the discussions...
Cheers
ok fair comment sorry for the inconvenance
I don't think this tools are illegal... have seen worst things here (changing imei's for example). I work on a wireless company and we use tools like those for research, penetration testing and hardening of the networks we deploy.
Back to the original question, here's my answer:
1) For bluesnarfing and bluejacking I use btCrawler:
http://www.silentservices.de/btCrawler.html
You need to create this registry key for it to work:
\HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Bluetooth\Mode\"ISC"=1(DWORD)
2) WEP cracking with a pocket pc is a loose of time, search for "retina wifi scanner for PocketPC", it is able of doing it but will take ages to complete the process, I suggest to use aircrack-ng on a laptop with linux
hi pof. i dont know retina wifu scanner can crack wep.
thanks for the info. i search the whole internet n realise that it no longer can be downloaded. do u have a copy of it? can pm me? thanks.
Here you can download it: RetinaWiFiPoc.exe
when i execute retina wifi scanner on my dopod838pro. it said can not load device driver. if the wireless configuration utility is running, please shut it down. i already soft reset still cannot. any advice. did you try to run it on 838pro, i mean, hermes?
No, I used it some time ago with my old blueangel in wm2003, not sure if it is compatible with newer devices and I think retina discontinued the product.
yer i have already got both them progs bt is exallent but i get the same error as above with retina
but thank you very much for the reply
There is a windows version of crackair-ng, at the same place as the linux version, not sure if it's anygood though.
yer thanks i have that as well i was mainly looking for a pocket ver but it looks like ill just have to wait am sure some one will bring one out soon
In fact, it's a 400 bucks piece of utterly unreliable, useless crap.
Since I got my device back from "repair", it's been a mixed experience. Most things work, some make me cringe in despair.
Today is a bad-TyTN day and I'm really, really <expletive/>.
After the repair, I thought my "No GSM" problems were gone. But today, the first time I really couldn't do without it, it crashed a couple of minutes after I unplugged it from the USB-ActiveSync 4.5 link and told me again "No GSM".
And of course, the result being:
- All POP3 accounts lost, and now I lost all emails and have to use different account names to set them up again
- Network connections credentials lost, even built-in. No I can, again, connected by other means, go figure out how to set these up or,
- finally, hard-reset the device, which is a pain in the neck because I have no out-of-the-box backup.
I'm not even running any third-party software on the device for fear of introducing non-linearities. I did not even install the brand-new TomTom 6, also since nobody seems to be able to sell a sufficiently large MicroSD card at this time.
Who's to blame for my bad experience?
Did I do something wrong? Setting the lock-timeout to 2 hours instead of 12, so it locked during the ActiveSync session?
Did HTC screw up so it would reset some "protected storage" when the GSM card is not detected for some magical reason?
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Does my provider E-Plus Germany suck for confusing the device with poor, unreliable UMTS coverage and internet connection problems?
It's a mixture of all these things, I guess. There are too many moving parts, most of which aren't sufficiently documented by Microsoft, or kept up-to-date software-wise by HTC and the service providers.
Examples:
- Messaging that unrecoverably screws up my POP3 accounts and there is no documentation in the SDK about the setup to fix it myself.
- The worthless MediaPlayer, that abandons it's meta-data when the storage card is released.
- The HTC phone software that at times wouldn't let me hang up on occasions, or doesn't start, or keeps using a bad UMTS connection even if GPRS is available and good.
I thought the TyTN would make a great every-day device for a phone and a software development platform for new-class applications.
So far, it's been one of the greatest time-wasters I've ever acquired.
Just like any other toy.
Useless crap.
Not had anything quite as bad as that. Never had to hard reset due to irreversible problem. But, yes quite a few soft resets and in a way although I want to disagree with you I think the device is cutting edge and could easily have been held back a year to iron out some problems. However as you say some of these problems are down to WM and telecoms providers. For business I would not get one of these but probably something with fewer features but high reliability.
For trying out the new or new combinations of features I would still buy a TyTn in preference to anything similar and yes a large part of this is about experimentation and an acceptance that if this were not cutting edge in some ways then reliability would not be acceptable. As it is though my business use is low on TyTn having "Fun" and experimenting is high. My rant is about releasing the device with obvious hardware irritations, the software.. well that can always be upgraded.
Mike
HB_TyTN said:
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely not - the problems you've listed (particularly the stale e-mail accounts) are not MS-related problems but because of stale WinCE database entries.
Next time DO run SKTools 3 to clean up the mail databases instead of hard resetting your device.
Furthermore, it's a very bad a idea to send a device in for service that still has data on it. You should have wiped it before sending anyway...
If you view a PPC Phone as a primary data storage/communications center, then you're in for a disappointment. On the other hand, if you use it as an extension of your personal computer, then not only will you have a very productive device but you'll keep your sanity.
I've always used this strategy since my first sync experience on a Nokia 6210 six-years ago. Appointments and contacts all easily synced to my phone. Replaced that with grey t68. Then came the PocketLOOX 600 (touted as first convergence device - nice idea, poor execution). I tolerated the buggy loox for 18-months before trading UP to an h4150 running wm2003se. Great device. Kept a t610 for phone, ppc as outlook back-up.
Arrived in Taiwan for an extended business trip end of July -- immediately picked up the local version CHT9000 (aka Dopod 838pro). Through this forum, someone graciously made available the first English language ROM -- a tad buggy, but later upgraded to my current ROM (dopod 1.23) and in everyway it has exceeded my expectations. I take it to the US and it my t-mobile account with gprs keeps me connected. Recently spent two weeks in Korea and all over China -- again, UMTS available most places, GPRS/EDGE filled in the blanks. Mobile carriers everywhere will love HTC for bringing this device to the masses.
Don't have to, but it's prudent to sync the device at least once a day. In the event you lose the device, it's stolen, or you're forced to hard reset, because it's just a 'copy' of your outlook system, it's no big loss.
All that said -- I'd recommend this device to anyone with at least some technical savvy. Without this, they could never appreciate truly the first quad-band gsm/tri-band UMTS, BT2.0, WiFi G, PPC Phone with both a useable keyboard AND a real scroll wheel and would be better off owning a Chocolate or some other Nokia/SonyEricsson 'fashion accessory'.
Cheers
Menneisyys said:
Surely not - the problems you've listed (particularly the stale e-mail accounts) are not MS-related problems but because of stale WinCE database entries.
Next time DO run SKTools 3 to clean up the mail databases instead of hard resetting your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do I have to use 3rd-party tools to fix such a problem? Where is the KB article about it, either on Microsoft's or HTC's or on my provider's website?
goestoeleven said:
Furthermore, it's a very bad a idea to send a device in for service that still has data on it. You should have wiped it before sending anyway...
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Click to collapse
Before repair, my device had the "Does not reliably detect SIM card" problem, that clearly discouraged me to put any data on it.
As requested by my service provider, I sent in the device hard-reset, without SIMcard, SDcard, battery, or stylus. I even removed the screen protector.
So all that's lost now (EMail accounts, passwords, WiFi, and what not), has been set completely new AFTER repair.
aquanaut88 said:
If you view a PPC Phone as a primary data storage/communications center, then you're in for a disappointment. On the other hand, if you use it as an extension of your personal computer, then not only will you have a very productive device but you'll keep your sanity.
[...]
Don't have to, but it's prudent to sync the device at least once a day. In the event you lose the device, it's stolen, or you're forced to hard reset, because it's just a 'copy' of your outlook system, it's no big loss.
All that said -- I'd recommend this device to anyone with at least some technical savvy. Without this, they could never appreciate truly the first quad-band gsm/tri-band UMTS, BT2.0, WiFi G, PPC Phone with both a useable keyboard AND a real scroll wheel and would be better off owning a Chocolate or some other Nokia/SonyEricsson 'fashion accessory'.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciated the great feature list of the TyTN by putting more than 400 bucks on the table and commited to an additional data plan as well as another 24 months of mediocre network coverage and service.
As I said, I planned to use it for developing pocket pc applications and little helpers to make my life easier.
I use it as an extension to my laptop, it is connected to it via USB most of the time, to charge and sync.
But feel like I could demand that it reliably keeps my data until I sync again.
If I have to always carry my laptop around to get that reliability, then it would have been way cheaper to go with a UMTS modem card instead.
If something is only useful to technologically savvy geeks, without reliability for the Joe Public every-day user, then I consider it a toy. Maybe a great, feature-overbearing, remarkably innovative toy, but nevertheless, something to play with, not to rely on.
Unfortunately, beside the technical problems that could be overcome by updates and repairs, it's a systematic issue that support is split across Microsoft, HTC and my provider.
As I said, it's terrible hard to figure out if a problem is caused by my fault, inappropriate settings, too little or too much tweaking, mediocre network coverage, hardware faults or software problems.
I wouldn't mind hard-resetting the device every day, if there was something resembling a simple backup _out-of-the-box_.
By backup I mean settings, including personalization, network connections, email accounts, sms/mms, custom ringtones, etc.
And that's exactly what I'm into finding to buy or writing myself.
Finally, again
Hang, bang, gone. "No GSM" again.
This time not recovering.
The new thing this time: My service provider E-Plus doesn't accept it for repair.
I should quit my day job so I can fully concentrate on the struggle with this heap of crap.
HB_TyTN said:
In fact, it's a 400 bucks piece of utterly unreliable, useless crap.
Since I got my device back from "repair", it's been a mixed experience. Most things work, some make me cringe in despair.
Today is a bad-TyTN day and I'm really, really <expletive/>.
After the repair, I thought my "No GSM" problems were gone. But today, the first time I really couldn't do without it, it crashed a couple of minutes after I unplugged it from the USB-ActiveSync 4.5 link and told me again "No GSM".
And of course, the result being:
- All POP3 accounts lost, and now I lost all emails and have to use different account names to set them up again
- Network connections credentials lost, even built-in. No I can, again, connected by other means, go figure out how to set these up or,
- finally, hard-reset the device, which is a pain in the neck because I have no out-of-the-box backup.
I'm not even running any third-party software on the device for fear of introducing non-linearities. I did not even install the brand-new TomTom 6, also since nobody seems to be able to sell a sufficiently large MicroSD card at this time.
Who's to blame for my bad experience?
Did I do something wrong? Setting the lock-timeout to 2 hours instead of 12, so it locked during the ActiveSync session?
Did HTC screw up so it would reset some "protected storage" when the GSM card is not detected for some magical reason?
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Does my provider E-Plus Germany suck for confusing the device with poor, unreliable UMTS coverage and internet connection problems?
It's a mixture of all these things, I guess. There are too many moving parts, most of which aren't sufficiently documented by Microsoft, or kept up-to-date software-wise by HTC and the service providers.
Examples:
- Messaging that unrecoverably screws up my POP3 accounts and there is no documentation in the SDK about the setup to fix it myself.
- The worthless MediaPlayer, that abandons it's meta-data when the storage card is released.
- The HTC phone software that at times wouldn't let me hang up on occasions, or doesn't start, or keeps using a bad UMTS connection even if GPRS is available and good.
I thought the TyTN would make a great every-day device for a phone and a software development platform for new-class applications.
So far, it's been one of the greatest time-wasters I've ever acquired.
Just like any other toy.
Useless crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the first BIG complaint i have heard about the product.. Second, wow, what did you do to it that it had to end-up in repairs? (fiddler??) Third, if it does give this much problems, then there was something wrong with it from the start, but you didnt take it back an did not insist on a swop?
Look at this app, install it and see if your gsm still is disabled?
Also check your settings again to make sure all is set to the right ones! Else you got a big problem or just dono how the thing works(just saying this coz 80% of all problems are caused by the user him/herself!! See it everyday then they blame me!).. RTFM
Or it could be a virus!! hahah That would be funny!!
OH, your rom version!! Wow dude!! Update the thing!! ROM Version: 1.18.257.2; ROM Date: 05/30/06
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_Upgrades
HB_TyTN said:
Hang, bang, gone. "No GSM" again.
This time not recovering.
The new thing this time: My service provider E-Plus doesn't accept it for repair.
I should quit my day job so I can fully concentrate on the struggle with this heap of crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as testing purpose: superCID it and try to flash with HTC South African 1.35 Rom
The ROM update worked for me. It took a lot of work to get mine running how it should after that, 3rd party software, reg settings, and I must admit it runs beautifully now. But when it came out of the box it was bloody awful, wouldn't turn on, take 5 seconds to hang up, freeze etc.
One word ... iPhone, hmm.
Hallo HB_TyTN
Like you I am on the E-Plus network (at Hannover), and use a O2-branded Tytn, same firmware. However, I never experienced problems like you, and like us others got used to occasional soft reset requirements, mainly related to the 3rd party Today items I use.
Now that HTC is in the retail market by itself it is certainly not wise to buy their wares over service providers (unless like you one buys on contract), since HTC for machines bought with them will go to greater efforts to repair or exchange machines. Eplus will not repair your Tytn, but usually just send you another "refurbished" one from the same batch they got from HTC.
For the moment you seem stuck with E-Plus, and you can attempt to pressure them into proper service according to German law. Another possibility is in fact to try the South African ROM, and see if it improves your machine. Third option is to beg HTC for direct repair, maybe with confirmation from E-Plus that they cannot help you, and send the machine directly to a HTC repair centre. If you send in your machine, please mail a copy of your attached letter to Fred Liu, HTC COO office, 23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330, Taiwan, R. O. C.
He is the COO of HTC and the top boss of HTC Europe. Coming to Germany soon, he will not want to make enemies here ))
Now after 10 hours it booted just fine and I'm just rapiconfigging back my email accounts and networks.
Reestablishing Bluetooth pairings and TomTom actvation is still manual.
I'm not fiddling. First time it failed right out-of-the-box. After repair #1 I only installed SKTools and TomTom Navigator 6.
ROM upgrade is no option, E-Plus/Brightpoint have not published an update. So there would be no way back.
Last repair the device wasn't switched (same S/N, IMEI, ROM version), so I guess they couldn't repro the problem (that would also explain their refusal to repair it again).
Next time I'll rush to an E-Plus shop as soon as it happens.
lol < well this sucks. cant use less than 10chars.. > lol
My first experiences with the TyTn also were disappointing. It took me weeks to get it more or less useable, and even now some things are not as convenient as they were on my Symbian phone. Here are the things that bother me (some are solved by 3rd party applications, others are not):
General:
- onscreen keyboard pops up even when one is using the hardware keyboard
- no way to backup all the settings
- often hard to navigate when not wanting to use the stylus
- only one language for text entry (word completion and transcriber)
- no data counter (gprs traffic)
- wordcompletion intervenes too much (when I type a Dutch word "wel", after typing the space after the word it changes it to we'll, no way to prevent this)
- wordcompletion only shows one possible next word (no way to scroll between different candidates)
- any setting that is slightly more advanced or deviates from tradition is either hard to set or impossible
Messaging:
- no way to specify the imap-root folder
- not possible to switch SMTP servers (even the from field cannot be chosen when sending a mail, nor can mails be moved from one outbox to another) (other mail clients I tried have problems with my VPN)
- cumbersome downloading (headers only: one has to open a mail and then choose to download it, then click send/receive; why not download it when this is chosen? or even when it is openend?)
- many notifications for sms (sent notification in messaging client, sent notification from network, receipt notification) when sending messages (and one cannot mark them as "read" from the todayscreen)
- applications are not very well integrated (e.g. file explorer cannot send a file via bluetooth)
Calendar:
- always opens on day view, would like to change this to month view (but is not possible)
- day view should be scrolled down to show the start of the day (e.g. 8.00 at the top of the screen), now I have to scroll from 00.00 down before I can see stuff)
- cumbersome entry of time (esp. when entering times that deviate from the time slots)
Phone:
- no support for different call profiles (where a profile is essentially a call filter)
- when one contact has multiple numbers, the phone application only shows the last used one
Network:
- when you add a VPN server, then delete it, you can't add one with the same name (even though it has been deleted)
- wifi starts detecting all networks, and does not necessarily start with the networks one has been connected to in the past
Bluetooth:
- limited profiles
- sometimes counterintuitive
ActiveSync:
- sees the device as new every now and then (causing it to say it conflicts); I have to delete the device on my PC and let it find it all over again
Programs folder:
- is alphabetically, would be nice if one could order this to his own liking
Alarm:
- no snooze function
- unnatural way of entering time and repeat options
File explorer
- no way to view extensions of files
I've learned to live with some of these problems, but I would have expected Windows mobile to be a more mature system. I had to choose a WM5 device (so I new I had to compromise), due to the fact that I wanted to run some specific application (PocketFMS), but didn't anticipate I had to compensate this much. (of course, no of my issues is purely HTC related, but will be present on all WM5 devices)
In total, I personally consider Symbian (Series 60) to be more efficient, better customisable (one is less forced to do things one way) and (never thought I'd say this) more stable.
Jörg
hmmm.... the fact that I'm listening to mannheim steamroller over A2DP at Las Vegas airport while typing this reply on my TyTN is evidence of my disagreement with the OP. This device has done incredibly well at CES. unbelievable functionality in tough tradeshow conditions. i'm really happy with this little gizmo!
Nevermind, I really love it, too. Otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time with it.
But posting in a stable network environment (I'm on home WLAN right now) is not really a proof.
Try this when moving in a crowded area with weak 3G coverage, say on the subway. Add sensitive hardware and a mediocre provider and things go south.
It's unfortunate your having so many of these problems - my Hermes has been excellent! I haven't had any of the issues you listed. In fact, mine has only locked up once, and that was today (and I use it religiously). I've had it hard reset on it's own, but that was caused by Hackmaster. You should definitely try a ROM upgrade, if you haven't already.
At CES, I was using my TyTN on Cingular's network with 110,000 other geeks (kudos to Cingular btw... coverage was great!). Even so, my device was handing off between GSM and UMTS constantly and Cingular experienced at least one major data network meltdown that I could detect. Perhaps it was the combination of 1.35 & the 1.20 radio that made mine work so well.
The worst problem I had was A2DP, but after the first day I found out it was because so many other people had bluetooth going that there were simply not enough available frequencies to support A2DP's high bandwidth demands. All the vendors were bemoaning the fact that their A2DP stuff "just wasn't working right"....