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I just recently upgraded from Qtek S100 to the S110, got the phones from Brightpoint in Sweden, and now i have the opportunity to compare the two devices. First thing i noticed was the differences in the display that no one seem to mention anywhere in forums. The S100 panel is somewhat easier to view in direct sunlight, more reflective. On the other hand, the S110 display is somewhat crisper in the matrix, it's like looking at a display with slightly smaller dot pitch. This is very clear when using a screen protetcor such as the ClearTouch. It doesn't "spread" the pixels as much producing the typical "sparkling effect" seen when using protector. I am still a bit undecided as to which one i like the most, at first i was a tad disappointed by the S110 -- that is by the display only of course!! ;-)
Anyone else had this experience on the two?
I compared my friends MDAc and my new S110 and honestly I cant see that diff you're talking about. To me the two LCDs look identical. I'm positively shocked by the speed diff caused by the extra 64MB of RAM, in some apps this make a hell of a diff.
That's strange, i suppose HTC have been using two different panels but not just on the S110, apparently, but also on the MDA's or perhaps it's just batch-specific based upon serial numbers.
Anyway, for those who might be interested, here's some more details on the two different LCD versions i've tested so far on the Magician:
1) Earlier model (?) seen on my S100
In this version of the LCD, brightness of the screen gets darker when tilting the device upwards, i.e. looking from below the device towards the LCD, and it gets brighter when looking from above. Sideways tilting the device makes the screen fade a bit. In the outdoors, this display is bright and reflective, you can read it without backlight indoors, and in direct sunlight and wearing sunglasses, the display remains quite rich in contrast and brightness.
2) The model i have in my S110
This screen has the opposite properties when tilting vertically. Looking from below the device makes the screen look brighter, less contrast. Looking from above the device makes the screen look darker, more contrast. From a right angle the screen appears to have slightly less contrast but more vivid colours, especially red tone more brilliant. Sideways the screen has a slight, very slight yellow tint, also when viewing from below. This screen is slightly less sensitive to viewing angles and it's most evident when watching movies in landscape mode, more comfortable view. In direct sunlight the screen is very dark, less reflective. Indoors it is nearly impossible to view the screen without backlight in a low-lit room. The screen image looks weird when looking through polaroid sunglasses. Slightly less visible in the car, though not a big problem. This screen looks good with a screen-protector, less internal reflection as seen on the S100 i have (screen-protector causes the display to "shimmer" a bit)
This is just my subjective opinion of course. The S110 is really awesome, i love the extra punch in speed and the ability to install all the software you want without counting bits and bytes, i upgraded because i considered staying with this model for a while. I am still a bit puzzled about the screen, starting to get used to it now. The difference is that remarkable i had to change the today-theme i had made for my S100 because it looked VERY dull on the S110!
this is absolutely true - mda compact and xda mini (both are the so called magican series) have different screens, the screen is made by different companies. you can see the difference easily especially in sunlight. i can really tell since i have both devices and can use them with identical today screen - the xda mini screen is so mutch brighter and more sharpen and also very much better to read in straight sunlight.
cheers, lutz
Sorry to say that but that a load of bull****. Any magician uses QVGA res on the exact same size so the pixel pitch is exactly the same. Why should one look "sharper" than the other. The only way this would be possible is by moving the pixels closer together (smaller pith) or using higher res. And neither is the case with any magician. It may be slightly different with sunlight use when there really are two diff LCDs but one CANNOT be sharper than the other. Its simply not possible.
nobody said anything about resolution or anything. but you must admit that e.g. a different material on the back of the screen or another way of lightening the screen may result in different sharpness. and thats the case.
cheers, lutz
Can something look sharper that actually isnt???
yes
I know, with a lot of liquor some women tend to look sharper than they really are.
Honestly, I admit that there may be a difference in performance/looks when exposed to sunlight etc but since every screen on the magician uses the exact same pixel pitch and res and size I doubt that there is really a diff to be seen other than what some people wish they can see. Otherwise you could make an LCD sharper by altering its surface. I mean you can make it blurry when pouring vaseline over the screen but make it sharper - I doubt that.
Did you ever see different LCD monitors in a row in some market? And you still say that there can't be a difference in picture quality between two monitors of the same size and resolution? Well, if you say yes, then you should have a closer look next time! Even the whole display technology varies from display to display.
PDA displays are reflektive and there are definately differences in the quality. My guess is that they built in improved panels somewhere within the production process so that newer devices (also new S100) have the better displays than the older ones.
Well with big LCDs its a big difference. They can use a lot of panel technologies (TN, MVA, IPS etc.), different anti-refectice coatings, different resolution and pixel pitch and so forth. The variation with small PDA LCDs are way more restricted.
We seem to have a misunderstanding anyway. I don't doubt that one magician could look different from another if the LCD has another coating or different backlight etc. BUT they cant be sharper since they use the same resolution and pixel pitch so that is not possible from a technological point of view. You may find one look different (maybe better) but that is a very subjective view. Besides all magicians (no matter if they are sold by O2 or Vodafone or Qtek or ...) are made by HTC, why should they use different LCD models in the exact same production line???
Ok, now I get your point. It's how you define what you mean with sharper. Sure, the resolutions stays the same, so the sharpness with regards to the resolution isn't better.
What about this guess: They asked their LCD supplier (or chose a different one) to supply them with LCDs with better reflektive behavior because the Magician isn't great under direct sunlight. So the newer panels have a stronger reflektion. I also suppose that these reflektions on the background cause the pixel to spread their light also more to the side (sorry for saying it that way, it's just a guess and I'm no pro). This would cause a pixel also to light some of its neighbours and this would cause a less sharp picture.
Just a guess.
I've noticed that Leo is somewhat wide, and still it has same resolution as other phones.
It has resolution 480x800, which is width=0.6 * height.
That huge Russian review states that Leo has display dimensions 88x56 mm. That makes it 0.63 * height. Which would mean the pixels are not square, it is 5% wider.
That is not much and it would be hardly noticeable. But if you rotate the screen, it will be 5% in other direction, and the difference would be 10%.
Question is .. is it noticeable ?
At least it should be measurable. If you have Leo, could you recheck my theory ? Display perfect circle or square (such bitmap should be easy to make on PC), and use ruler to measure the width and height on Leo's display. Also try that in landscape mode.
If indeed the pixels are not square, I'm interested how is it noticeable. Especially on people it should be visible, especially if you switch from landscape to portrait and back. On portrait all should be wider, on landscape all should be thinner.
88x56 cant be correct cause it is not 5:3 and this also imply a 4,1" display and not a 4,3" one ^^. Conclusion: The values arent correct . The pixel are squared.
It's probably not that noticable, or rather doesn't matter as soon as you get used to it. The pixels on my laptop (Thinkpad SL500) aren't square either, but as soon as you get used to it it's no problem
NetDwarf said:
88x56 cant be correct cause it is not 5:3 and this also imply a 4,1" display and not a 4,3" one ^^. Conclusion: The values arent correct . The pixel are squared.
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Good point. Still .. what is the real display size ?
Leo surely seems wider aspect ratio then my current Xperia, which has the same resolution, and perfect 0.6 ratio.
I searched for some pictures on google and measured the aspect ratio on them, and it looks ok. So the impression comes probably just from the fact that Leo does not have hardware keys and the part above display is quite short too.
Good ! Eh .. now I simply HAVE to buy it, right ?
to be 4.3in diagonal (109.22mm) AND be square pixel at 800x480 the lcd size has to be 93.65mm X 56mm.
Is is that? i don't know, but it would fit in the frame reported at 120.5mm x 67mm.
I just held a ruler next to my screen and measured the screen. The size is 56x94. The are approximate sizes no exact measurements...
Thanx, that makes this non-issue.
sure everyone loves the super super-amoled display of our sgs's.
but even in casual usage- not looking under microscope,
i can make out the dots making up every font. small fonts look bad.
and in landscape its even more noticeable.
in the android running on my topaz , i cant make out the dots.
so is it the bigger screen, with poor dpi or an issue specific to amoled?
is dithering off , if so any way to turn it on?
or is it just me/ should i get my eyes etc tested?
4-inches of nexus 1 res = that.
afaik the black dots are a physical limitation so you can't really software fix that
personally i don't have a problem with it, they're noticeable only on very small fonts (its ok on "only pretty damn small" haha)
Unfortunately text is not the Galaxy S' screen's strong point, because it uses a PenTile layout - rather than having red, green and blue (RGB) subpixels to make up each pixel, it has an alternating pattern of RG and BG subpixels, using interpolation to provide proper colours over the full screen resolution. However, while this is fine for graphics, it's not as crisp for text. I was concerned about this before getting the phone; it's livable with though, as I usually hold the phone just far enough away that I don't notice.
There's nothing that can be done about it, because it's hardware, and it's a tradeoff for having the Super AMOLED screen. The Nexus One and Desire, which have (until recently, anyway) AMOLED screens, also use a PenTile matrix.
Mithent said:
Unfortunately text is not the Galaxy S' screen's strong point, because it uses a PenTile layout - rather than having red, green and blue (RGB) subpixels to make up each pixel, it has an alternating pattern of RG and BG subpixels, using interpolation to provide proper colours over the full screen resolution. However, while this is fine for graphics, it's not as crisp for text. I was concerned about this before getting the phone; it's livable with though, as I usually hold the phone just far enough away that I don't notice.
There's nothing that can be done about it, because it's hardware, and it's a tradeoff for having the Super AMOLED screen. The Nexus One and Desire, which have (until recently, anyway) AMOLED screens, also use a PenTile matrix.
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Thanks that was very informative.
Had a quick question I was hoping some Nexus S owners could help with, to do with the screen's pixel layout.
Pretty much every LCD display I've seen has its pixels lined up in neat horizontal and vertical rows (basically in a '+' configuration). Looking at the AMOLED screens on the HTC Desire and Samsung Galaxy S i9000, they both look like their screens have been rotated 45 degress, so that the pixels line up on an 'X'. This means that straight horizontal or vertical lines actually look jagged on an AMOLED phone (as opposed to diagonal lines looking jagged on normal LCDs).
Having seen the Nexus S in videos and photos, I think it may have a more normal, LCD-type '+' pixel grid. Can somebody take a look at their screen (or better yet, take some up-close photos of straight horizontal/vertical lines) and tell us what they see?
The only way you'll see anything jagged looking is if you're looking at your phone under a microscope.
ikon8 said:
The only way you'll see anything jagged looking is if you're looking at your phone under a microscope.
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Agreed, and even then it's not like when you are looking at a G2 or MyTouch 4g screen you just cry yourself to sleep. I think they are still pretty good screens, but SAMOLED is like the switch from a tube TV to that nice Plasma, never gonna be the same.
What the OP is noticing is the different pixel arrangement that samsung decided to use for these SAMOLED panels... which is RGBG instead of the traditional RGB on most LCDs. It's also responsible for the type of 'jagged' lines, which in effect is not really jagged, it's just that there's more space between red and blue subpixels than on a traditional RGB layout so you see more gaps for certain colors.
I notice the fuzzyness that the original poster is talking about when looking at the Samsung Vibrant. Text just was not as sharp on the SAMOLED screen on the vibrant (and other amoled screens) as on LCD screens on the G2 or Mytouch4g. This is due to the subpixel layout of the SAMOLED screen. Some people notice it more than others.
The Nexus S screen does seem to be sharper than the Vibrant, at least on the demo I played with.
the OP is right. and the Nexus S screen is the same as Galaxy S in that matters. its not a +. more like X.
however, i find it really hard to notice it unless you get very close to the screen. you have a good eye man.
Yup, the mesh/screen effect you notice over the pixels are from their different pixel arrangements, called pen-tile arrangement. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family
The galaxy S phones, and the nexus [1S] use this pen tile arrangement. I think the only amoled display I've personally seen without the pen-time arrangement, is the nokia N8's, though I'm sure there are more..
I just wanted to post this for anyone who is overly anal about small problems with display technology, like myself. After owning the G2 for a week (Verizon)and finding some of its display flaws, I was able to confirm all of them with 3 other Verizon units.
1. It seems that the bottom left corner area (in portrait), radiating out maybe an inch (and a little further up the left edge, most easily seen by using the default white soft buttons and comparing the left and right corners) is a little bit cooler in color (blue hue) than the rest of the display. Most people probably won't notice this, but at least 3 of these phones were from different batches.
2. The top edge of the display (near the camera) is a bit brighter than the other edges, a characteristic that many edge-lit LCD phones seem to have.
3. Yes, the grid of dots on the display are normal, but if you can see them with the display on in a poorly lot environment, you probably have either a bad revision of the digitizer hardware (one if the 4 I looked at had this problem, not the one that I own).
4. Like any display, the calibration range varies widely between panels. My phone appeared to have a warmer calibration than the other 3 (which I prefer), one of them appearing almost as blue as my old GS3. So, if you think your display is too blue, it probably is. For reference, by iPad appears to be slightly cooler than my G2 unit.
If you're like me and at times have been a chronic phone-returner for defective units when it may have just been a defect with the technology used in a particular model (or just a product of bad QC), I hope this helps.
I have this on mine. It also appears that the right side is more yellow than the rest of the screen as well. This is normal for the Verizon version then? Im usualy picky hut its a huge quality improvement over my old dna.