Related
Hi, a new guy here!
I recently became a happy owner of 32Gb wi-fi only N7. I’m familiar with software dev (windows developer for 20 years with some work on unix) and customization/modding/flashing process (mostly for satellite receivers). However this is my first tablet and my first Android device so I could use some help
I successfully unlocked, rooted and installed custom recovery on my N7. I would like to get to a bare bones state of the N7 and then slowly add new features/programs to it when it becomes necessary for me. So I would like to remove all non essential parts that were preinstalled on my N7.
I was under impression that I could uninstall programs using N7 UI after device gets rooted. However it seems that for majority of the apps I still only have an option to disable.
I shelled into N7 and looked around. It seems that all (majority?) of the apps are in /system/apps folder. Can I simply remove the apps and their files from that folder? Does this folder only contain user apps or does it also have system apps that are essential for N7 to function? Is there a chance to brick it by removing something (everything?) from that folder?
I searched on a forum for a list of apps that are safe to remove. I thought it would exist since it seems to be something many of us would be interested in doing. I didn’t find the list. If there is such a thing and someone could direct me there, it would be great!
Given that I can remove apps by deleting them from that folder safely, I still have a question what each app does and how important it is. Is safe to assume that any app that has a wheel with a drive belt on it as an icon in apps screen on N7 is system app and has to stay?
I have two keyboard app installed – one is Android keyboard and one is ASUS keyboard. Judging by the name 2 of these are essential since Android is the OS and ASUS is the manufacturer. But do I really need two of them?
If there is a resource/thread that discussed something similar, please let know. I look forward to learn from anyone on this forum!
_Diver said:
Hi, a new guy here!
I recently became a happy owner of 32Gb wi-fi only N7. I’m familiar with software dev (windows developer for 20 years with some work on unix) and customization/modding/flashing process (mostly for satellite receivers). However this is my first tablet and my first Android device so I could use some help
I successfully unlocked, rooted and installed custom recovery on my N7. I would like to get to a bare bones state of the N7 and then slowly add new features/programs to it when it becomes necessary for me. So I would like to remove all non essential parts that were preinstalled on my N7.
I was under impression that I could uninstall programs using N7 UI after device gets rooted. However it seems that for majority of the apps I still only have an option to disable.
I shelled into N7 and looked around. It seems that all (majority?) of the apps are in /system/apps folder. Can I simply remove the apps and their files from that folder? Does this folder only contain user apps or does it also have system apps that are essential for N7 to function? Is there a chance to brick it by removing something (everything?) from that folder?
I searched on a forum for a list of apps that are safe to remove. I thought it would exist since it seems to be something many of us would be interested in doing. I didn’t find the list. If there is such a thing and someone could direct me there, it would be great!
Given that I can remove apps by deleting them from that folder safely, I still have a question what each app does and how important it is. Is safe to assume that any app that has a wheel with a drive belt on it as an icon in apps screen on N7 is system app and has to stay?
I have two keyboard app installed – one is Android keyboard and one is ASUS keyboard. Judging by the name 2 of these are essential since Android is the OS and ASUS is the manufacturer. But do I really need two of them?
If there is a resource/thread that discussed something similar, please let know. I look forward to learn from anyone on this forum!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the energy right now to address every app one at a time, but I'll nudge you in the right direction. That should help you start tinkering.
The Nexus 7 is very popular in this community because it's intentionally more open, and less bloated, than much of the competition.
That being said, sure there are apps you could uninstall if you decide to. Some of the custom ROM's will have probably already have done this for you, but may create little unexpected quirks here and there.
The first thing you'll want to do is backing everything up thoroughly. I would use Titanium Pro (you'll see it referred to as Tibu a lot), to backup all apps and settings. Then I would use the Google Nexus 7 toolkit (found in the forums here) to do a backup, as well as make a nandroid backup.
Ok, so you're ready to tinker. Well, if you bought Titanium Pro from the app store, you've already got all you really need. First, use titanium to freeze an app you don't feel you need, and don't think is required. Re-boot, go about your daily routine, and see if all is ok. Continue on in this manner. Once you've frozen everything you're interested in, and made sure all is well, you can probably go ahead and uninstall them through Tibu. Freezing them should generally make them not start up anyways, so unless the tiny amount of space they take up is a concern, that's really all you generally need to do *.
* Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
bladebarrier,
Thanks for your response. I understand the approach you suggested – disabling apps one at a time and then when they all disabled and device is working to my liking for a while I could uninstall them.
However, I’m somewhat frustrated with a sheer number of apps that I have out of the box and I can’t find a good description of what they do. For example:
Mobile Network Configuration
Google Partner Setup
Google Services Framework
Searching online doesn’t yield definitive answers if it’s something I need or will N7 work without them. I have google play store and google play services installed – does store app require services? Reading a bit about it doesn’t make it seem so, but I’m not 100% sure. So I was wondering if there is a list of apps that are required for N7 well being and that cannot be removed no matter what.
For example, Black Viper has an excellent example of what I’m looking for but for windows nt services: (can't post a link)
This page explain what each service is, what it does and if it’s safe to disable it depending on configuration you’re seeking – minimal set, typical, out of box of experimental. I would love to find something like that for N7 system apps
I installed CWM recovery when I rooted and as far as I can understand I does NAND backups. I plan on moving the backup file from the device to my desktop and keeping it there for safety reason.
The Tibu process that you described, as far as I understand (and I might be wrong here) is basically equivalent of disabling the apps using native N7 setting app, rebooting, using it for a while and then removing .apk and .odex (or simply app_name.*) files from system/apps folder. Tibu just makes it easier. Did I get that right?
And it’s still removing one app/widget at the time. I’d like to clean it out completely first and start from that point. So Tibu will probably not help me there. So my main Q is still out there – can I brick it by removing everything from system/app? Are there only user apps there or essential system apps as well? With CWM back up file on hand will I be able to recover if my experiment goes bad?
> * Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
One of the reasons I want to have them removed is to clean up the list of apps I have on N7. Right now I have 5 pages of apps and I have little idea what they do and if I need them – I had Korean keyboard installed for example.
As I mentioned I’m a newb in this area, so maybe my approach is a bit dumb, so please be patient with me
_Diver said:
bladebarrier,
Thanks for your response. I understand the approach you suggested – disabling apps one at a time and then when they all disabled and device is working to my liking for a while I could uninstall them.
However, I’m somewhat frustrated with a sheer number of apps that I have out of the box and I can’t find a good description of what they do. For example:
Mobile Network Configuration
Google Partner Setup
Google Services Framework
Searching online doesn’t yield definitive answers if it’s something I need or will N7 work without them. I have google play store and google play services installed – does store app require services? Reading a bit about it doesn’t make it seem so, but I’m not 100% sure. So I was wondering if there is a list of apps that are required for N7 well being and that cannot be removed no matter what.
For example, Black Viper has an excellent example of what I’m looking for but for windows nt services: (can't post a link)
This page explain what each service is, what it does and if it’s safe to disable it depending on configuration you’re seeking – minimal set, typical, out of box of experimental. I would love to find something like that for N7 system apps
I installed CWM recovery when I rooted and as far as I can understand I does NAND backups. I plan on moving the backup file from the device to my desktop and keeping it there for safety reason.
The Tibu process that you described, as far as I understand (and I might be wrong here) is basically equivalent of disabling the apps using native N7 setting app, rebooting, using it for a while and then removing .apk and .odex (or simply app_name.*) files from system/apps folder. Tibu just makes it easier. Did I get that right?
And it’s still removing one app/widget at the time. I’d like to clean it out completely first and start from that point. So Tibu will probably not help me there. So my main Q is still out there – can I brick it by removing everything from system/app? Are there only user apps there or essential system apps as well? With CWM back up file on hand will I be able to recover if my experiment goes bad?
> * Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
One of the reasons I want to have them removed is to clean up the list of apps I have on N7. Right now I have 5 pages of apps and I have little idea what they do and if I need them – I had Korean keyboard installed for example.
As I mentioned I’m a newb in this area, so maybe my approach is a bit dumb, so please be patient with me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Removing Google framework services is a big no-no. To be honest, the easiest way to accomplish what you want is installing a custom ROM like CyanogenMod, especially since you've done all the prep work for such a thing.
Once you install any official CM build it is as close to app-less as you can get on a modular OS like this.
littleemp said:
Removing Google framework services is a big no-no. To be honest, the easiest way to accomplish what you want is installing a custom ROM like CyanogenMod, especially since you've done all the prep work for such a thing.
Once you install any official CM build it is as close to app-less as you can get on a modular OS like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what i suspected! i thought that google framework would be something essential, but there is not much easily available information there to arrive at that conclusion
since i'm new to this, i thought i should stay away from any rom flashing until i get a bit more familiar with a device, terminology and stuff like that. i'm looking at the "[ROM] CyanogenMod 10.1 [OFFICIAL]" thread and i'm not sure about half of the terms - GAPPS, PSA, Nightlies i do know what ROM is, I do know what kernel is, virtual machine, etc. But it's applied to the platform that I have little experience with, so it makes me a little bit uneasy
_Diver said:
bladebarrier,
Thanks for your response. I understand the approach you suggested – disabling apps one at a time and then when they all disabled and device is working to my liking for a while I could uninstall them.
However, I’m somewhat frustrated with a sheer number of apps that I have out of the box and I can’t find a good description of what they do. For example:
Mobile Network Configuration
Google Partner Setup
Google Services Framework
Searching online doesn’t yield definitive answers if it’s something I need or will N7 work without them. I have google play store and google play services installed – does store app require services? Reading a bit about it doesn’t make it seem so, but I’m not 100% sure. So I was wondering if there is a list of apps that are required for N7 well being and that cannot be removed no matter what.
For example, Black Viper has an excellent example of what I’m looking for but for windows nt services: (can't post a link)
This page explain what each service is, what it does and if it’s safe to disable it depending on configuration you’re seeking – minimal set, typical, out of box of experimental. I would love to find something like that for N7 system apps
I installed CWM recovery when I rooted and as far as I can understand I does NAND backups. I plan on moving the backup file from the device to my desktop and keeping it there for safety reason.
The Tibu process that you described, as far as I understand (and I might be wrong here) is basically equivalent of disabling the apps using native N7 setting app, rebooting, using it for a while and then removing .apk and .odex (or simply app_name.*) files from system/apps folder. Tibu just makes it easier. Did I get that right?
And it’s still removing one app/widget at the time. I’d like to clean it out completely first and start from that point. So Tibu will probably not help me there. So my main Q is still out there – can I brick it by removing everything from system/app? Are there only user apps there or essential system apps as well? With CWM back up file on hand will I be able to recover if my experiment goes bad?
> * Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
One of the reasons I want to have them removed is to clean up the list of apps I have on N7. Right now I have 5 pages of apps and I have little idea what they do and if I need them – I had Korean keyboard installed for example.
As I mentioned I’m a newb in this area, so maybe my approach is a bit dumb, so please be patient with me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tibu requires root access, in order to perform what we're discussing. I'm relatively new to JB, but I can't imagine any stock settings replicating its capabilities.
As far as a whole bunch of apps being in your list, that's sort of the way Android works. Think of it like "superfetch", or whatever that term was in Windows Vista. Basically, two things happen when you boot. Android looks at a list of apps that are designed to start on boot, and also apps that it expects you may want to run in the future. Both of these are designed to make the device run smoother overall, and it will kill apps if extra ram is required and they are not in use. Certain Android apps require themselves to run at all times. Some of these are apps like Tasker (if you're using tasker profiles), some of these are system apps that make the device function, some of these are apps that maintain widgets or background monitoring (weather apps, gmail, calendar).
Now, there are two ways to go about sorting what is bloat, and what is there because Android decided to load it. You can install an app called Autostarts, that will give an insight into apps that start up when certain criteria are met. You can also use it to stop those apps from queuing up at those trigger points. This is another root required app, and while I purchased it long ago, may have a free version as well. It's time consuming to use, and not perfect, which is why Tibu is better for flat out locking down unwanted apps.
Back to my initial thoughts though, you will see apps in your system list that you haven't touched since boot, because Android tries to anticipate your needs. People used to use "task killers" to close the apps, and came to realize that unless one is causing a real problem, it's just going to go back into the cached app list again anyways, thus reducing battery life when it has to load it over and over again. "Task killer" is a dirty word around XDA, unless you're using it to close an app that doesn't just go into the background like a good little app should.
Basically, you're going to start playing whack-a-mole if you want your list to remain as small as possible, at all times, and yet still actually use the device for anything interesting. You can reduce it, via various methods, and if this were a device from say "insert-name" brand, and was loaded with bloat apps, by all means you should clean those out. However, I think you'll find that while google does install things that aren't needed, or even used by everyone, it's mostly not a big issue.
Check out Better Battery Stats, in the XDA forums. It's an app that shows a pretty good picture of what is actually going on when you're not looking, and can provide data on how to improve your performance. It's probably a better way to start delving into what processes are actually being used, and which ones are just basically harmless. You'll also learn a good bit about how Android works from the Dev's explanations of many of the processes.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------
_Diver said:
that's what i suspected! i thought that google framework would be something essential, but there is not much easily available information there to arrive at that conclusion
since i'm new to this, i thought i should stay away from any rom flashing until i get a bit more familiar with a device, terminology and stuff like that. i'm looking at the "[ROM] CyanogenMod 10.1 [OFFICIAL]" thread and i'm not sure about half of the terms - GAPPS, PSA, Nightlies i do know what ROM is, I do know what kernel is, virtual machine, etc. But it's applied to the platform that I have little experience with, so it makes me a little bit uneasy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make sure whichever ROM you use, if you decide to, supports your HSPA+ model. There is a separate development section in the Nexus 7 forums, for those of us that have the HSPA+ version. We are the minority, as the Nexus 7 was initially released as a wifi only tablet.
bladebarrier said:
Tibu requires root access, in order to perform what we're discussing. I'm relatively new to JB, but I can't imagine any stock settings replicating its capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do have SU privileges, so what i was talking about was disabling an app thru N7 setting screen and then when i deem the app ok to remove, going to adb shell and removing the actual file.
i just did this:
mount -o remount rw /system
rm iWnnIME_Kbd_White.apk
rm iWnnIME.apk
and it removed the japanese keyboard. however when i go back to app screen under settings, i still see it but now it has a grey icon with a SD symbols in the corner. so it appears it recognizes that the app is gone, but it's still referenced in the list. i pushed the files back using NRT and it all back to the way it was. so looks like my idea of cleaning the list by removing the apk might not fly.
and now I wonder how Tibu uninstalls the apps.
bladebarrier said:
People used to use "task killers" to close the apps, and came to realize that unless one is causing a real problem, it's just going to go back into the cached app list again anyways, thus reducing battery life when it has to load it over and over again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the notion of apps being in the cache and being removed when more RAM is needed, however the purist in me just doesn't want the junk apps to be there in first place However there is a lot of validity to these of your words:
bladebarrier said:
Basically, you're going to start playing whack-a-mole if you want your list to remain as small as possible, at all times, and yet still actually use the device for anything interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My wife got Kindle Fire HD recently and she's been using it happily. While I was thinking why would anyone want a closed up system (well, more closed up system then Nexus), she's been using it and I've been frustrated with my N7 so i might just let it go and enjoy the japanese and korean keyboards anyway
bladebarrier said:
Make sure whichever ROM you use, if you decide to, supports your HSPA+ model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm wifi only
ngshniq every
i think i found what i was after: http wiki.cyanogenmod.org/wiki/barebones (url modified since i still can't post urls). this wiki page has the list of app with a short description and if it's safe to remove. it also has additional information that explains why i still saw the reference to the app in the list when apk file was deleted:
looks like i need to pay attention to 2 additional files:
/data/system/packages.xml
/data/system/packages.list
i bet I would find a reference to the apps in these and i would need to remove it in order to have the app disappear from the app list. i'll play around a bit more and report back
One thing, could you explain your reasoning behind wanting to delete everything but the essentials? Do you have a particular goal in mind or is it because of your windows background? Because if so, you should know that android operates very differently when compared to windows, and such, the requirements to keep your device working in tip top shape vary greatly.
In my opinion, with your current limited knowledge of each process/app inner workings, what you're trying to do surefire way to break something beyond repair and needing to use a factory image to get back to zero. A custom ROM will be much safer and yield the exact same results that you're looking for. (Eventually, once you understand what each thing does, then this manual approach could satisfy your needs)
Note: GApps are the basic Google apps to flash on top of the barebones system. Gmail, Play store, and the framework.
Nightlies are experimental builds compiled nightly by a bot with the latest CyanogenMod code available.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
My goal was to simplify my approach to N7 by removing anything that I don’t need now and slowly adding all necessary components as I get familiar with it. But it seems at this point that this approach is a bit more complicated as thought it would be.
So I think I would leave it alone for now and revisit this later
_Diver said:
My goal was to simplify my approach to N7 by removing anything that I don’t need now and slowly adding all necessary components as I get familiar with it. But it seems at this point that this approach is a bit more complicated as thought it would be.
So I think I would leave it alone for now and revisit this later
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what you've done manually, you're clearly far ahead of a new user when it comes to understanding linux/unix.
If you want to lock down parts of what google implements, purely to keep it minimalistic, I would agree with the above poster. Go for one of the popular ROM options that are available, like CM, and work your way backwards. The Nexus 7 only has as much bloat as you allow it to have via the settings. This is another reason why Better Battery Stats is an excellent way to make sure your device isn't draining battery, yet isn't locked down. The other day I noticed an app that kept fetching my position, even though the case was closed (magnetic sleep mode). It turned out I forgot to disable the tracking in google maps (why it was defaulted to ON, I have no idea). BBS showed me what was running during the sleep phase, and I fixed it when I woke up the next morning after wondering why my battery dropped.
The Kindle Fire is a great option, because it doesn't require any of this fussing about. My woman loves hers. LOVES IT. Personally, I like to tinker a bit, and I'm too invested in Android apps to not have access to the play store. The Nexus 7, is for people like what you find here. We like to tinker, and make everything custom. At the same time, you could spend all day trying to figure out why EntriesRefresh_wakelock is your highest partial wakelock count, at 60seconds per 7 hours, or you can find that you just went 7 hours and only used 6% of the battery, even though you've been connected to wifi, texting, emailing, and checking the weather and news, the whole time. Not bad, honestly.
The biggest investment you can do for your Nexus, is probably getting a case that magnetically puts it to rest when you close it. After that, learn about the settings that drain battery in the background. Then, get Tasker and play around that (it's like programming, without the need to learn the code). After that, go to a custom ROM, or dig out Tibu, and basically start customizing which apps you will use. If that doesn't pass the time long enough, you can literally make your own ROM and put together exactly what you want. Whether the performance will be that much better or not, and whether you'll spend most of your day trying to look for coding errors, is up to you. I don't have the patience to code, but you're a coder, so what is broccoli to me, may be bacon to you.
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).
Will omniroms system apps have the same unnecessary and abusive permissions as stock roms and cyanogen mode roms have?
I'm quite concerned about privacy and whatever rom I use, be it stock, cyanogen mode or aosp, I have to restrict dozens of privacy related permissions.
And of course the device still works, which means that those perms weren't needed.
For example, I don't see why some system apps (I mean, not Google apps cuz I get rid of them but apps like systemui, settings, android system etc.) want to access my location, my contacts, my logs, my imei, my id, my serial number, my phone number, my provider, the list of accounts on the phone etc. eventhough they don't need it to work properly.
I guess that cyanogen mode doesn't have any other choice but to include what is to my opinion little more than spyware in the source, cuz if they didn't Google wouldn't allow them to use its material.
So what about omni roms? Will they be free from Google spyware or will they be enfeoffed to it?
unclefab said:
Will omniroms system apps have the same unnecessary and abusive permissions as stock roms and cyanogen mode roms have?
I'm quite concerned about privacy and whatever rom I use, be it stock, cyanogen mode or aosp, I have to restrict dozens of privacy related permissions.
And of course the device still works, which means that those perms weren't needed.
For example, I don't see why some system apps (I mean, not Google apps cuz I get rid of them but apps like systemui, settings, android system etc.) want to access my location, my contacts, my logs, my imei, my id, my serial number, my phone number, my provider, the list of accounts on the phone etc. eventhough they don't need it to work properly.
I guess that cyanogen mode doesn't have any other choice but to include what is to my opinion little more than spyware in the source, cuz if they didn't Google wouldn't allow them to use its material.
So what about omni roms? Will they be free from Google spyware or will they be enfeoffed to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those permissions are there so they can interact with other things in the system.
unclefab said:
Will omniroms system apps have the same unnecessary and abusive permissions as stock roms and cyanogen mode roms have?
I'm quite concerned about privacy and whatever rom I use, be it stock, cyanogen mode or aosp, I have to restrict dozens of privacy related permissions.
And of course the device still works, which means that those perms weren't needed.
For example, I don't see why some system apps (I mean, not Google apps cuz I get rid of them but apps like systemui, settings, android system etc.) want to access my location, my contacts, my logs, my imei, my id, my serial number, my phone number, my provider, the list of accounts on the phone etc. eventhough they don't need it to work properly.
I guess that cyanogen mode doesn't have any other choice but to include what is to my opinion little more than spyware in the source, cuz if they didn't Google wouldn't allow them to use its material.
So what about omni roms? Will they be free from Google spyware or will they be enfeoffed to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Out of the box, there's no "spyware" that anyone is aware of in Android. If you install Google Apps, you are giving those apps these permissions obviously.
If you don't use Gapps (like me), then you should be fine - you can check what each app does in its own source code.
I am also looking into ways to help protect against spying third party software you install (ie. apps a user installs), for those who want added protection.
I work as a security researcher, so yes, I do care quite a bit about security, and excessive permissions is a life-long hate of mine There are no gapps when you install Omni, so you'll be safe. For those who want them, they can flash them.
What I meant with spyware is not what one usually calls spyware, but I didn't have any other term to refer to it.
What I wanted to say it's that system apps (not Google apps like gmail or gtalk but system apps like phone, android system, systemui etc.) have intrusive, and unnecessary, permissions. When I say unnecessary I mean it, cuz I block or spoof them without my phone to have any problem. I know it's not the devs' fault but Google's, who likes to know what we do, who and where we are, and thus releases android updates full of spying system apps.
So then I wanted to know if Omni's system apps will be free from such perms, since the source comes from Google.
Until cm7 it was possible to block perms directly from the app manager, but I guess Google got annoyed at it and obliged the cm team to remove that function.
Whatever rom we use now, we are left with system apps spying on us, and that's why I call them spyware.
Cuz for me apps that want to know where I am, what contacts I have, what numbers I have called, my phone number, my imei etc, eventhough they don't need it, are in a way spywares. For instance look at the framework-res.apk (android system), every time we connect to the internet it calls home (I've checked, the address is Google inc, mountain view, CA). Look at the perms the systemui or the phone apk have, it's insane! Not to mention all the other system apps that want to access the /proc folder, our serial number and the like. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot fusedlocation.apk, Google's latest spyware since 4.2.2, that one can't uninstall or freeze or block.
I do not use Google apps, and I do use apps like Xprivacy or af+wall, but still, it annoys me to always have to play cat and mouse, and it annoys me that the android system always calls Google when I connect to the internet. Not that I'm an internationally wanted terrorist, but hey, privacy is privacy!
The thing is that future android updates will be more and more filled with such spyware (above mentioned fusedlocation.apk being the perfect example), and I hope that devs will find a way to bypass it.
That's why when I saw an announcement about Omnia I came to see if it will be better than cm privacy wise, and to give some suggestions about privacy and permissions...
unclefab said:
What I meant with spyware is not what one usually calls spyware, but I didn't have any other term to refer to it.
What I wanted to say it's that system apps (not Google apps like gmail or gtalk but system apps like phone, android system, systemui etc.) have intrusive, and unnecessary, permissions. When I say unnecessary I mean it, cuz I block or spoof them without my phone to have any problem. I know it's not the devs' fault but Google's, who likes to know what we do, who and where we are, and thus releases android updates full of spying system apps.
So then I wanted to know if Omni's system apps will be free from such perms, since the source comes from Google.
Until cm7 it was possible to block perms directly from the app manager, but I guess Google got annoyed at it and obliged the cm team to remove that function.
Whatever rom we use now, we are left with system apps spying on us, and that's why I call them spyware.
Cuz for me apps that want to know where I am, what contacts I have, what numbers I have called, my phone number, my imei etc, eventhough they don't need it, are in a way spywares. For instance look at the framework-res.apk (android system), every time we connect to the internet it calls home (I've checked, the address is Google inc, mountain view, CA). Look at the perms the systemui or the phone apk have, it's insane! Not to mention all the other system apps that want to access the /proc folder, our serial number and the like. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot fusedlocation.apk, Google's latest spyware since 4.2.2, that one can't uninstall or freeze or block.
I do not use Google apps, and I do use apps like Xprivacy or af+wall, but still, it annoys me to always have to play cat and mouse, and it annoys me that the android system always calls Google when I connect to the internet. Not that I'm an internationally wanted terrorist, but hey, privacy is privacy!
The thing is that future android updates will be more and more filled with such spyware (above mentioned fusedlocation.apk being the perfect example), and I hope that devs will find a way to bypass it.
That's why when I saw an announcement about Omnia I came to see if it will be better than cm privacy wise, and to give some suggestions about privacy and permissions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there's anything that you've found like "call home" routines, please let us know - they will be looked at and removed if necessary.
Totally agree with you on privacy though here. It's very important. I have some ideas to go further than CM, but it's all ideas for now.
pulser_g2 said:
Out of the box, there's no "spyware" that anyone is aware of in Android. If you install Google Apps, you are giving those apps these permissions obviously.
If you don't use Gapps (like me), then you should be fine - you can check what each app does in its own source code.
I am also looking into ways to help protect against spying third party software you install (ie. apps a user installs), for those who want added protection.
I work as a security researcher, so yes, I do care quite a bit about security, and excessive permissions is a life-long hate of mine There are no gapps when you install Omni, so you'll be safe. For those who want them, they can flash them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Question here, if you do not use gapp what exactly do you use? I mean you need ways to download apps right? so you only install the playstore and call it a day or what?
mgbotoe said:
Question here, if you do not use gapp what exactly do you use? I mean you need ways to download apps right? so you only install the playstore and call it a day or what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to keep only the play store you can, but you will have to keep the Google service framework as well, and maybe the Google log in.
@pulser_g2
my phone is very well protected, and skinned to the extreme (like only 20 or so remaining system apps), so for now the only app that performs a call home routine is the android system. But if I disable all the protections then the wlan test, the settings and the settings storage do call home as well. I guess other system apps would do it as well, but since I've uninstalled more than 150 of them I can't tell which ones.
One can check by oneself using this:
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/monitor-your-devices-network-connections/
and this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...dium=organic&utm_term=network+log+google+play
Regarding android system's home call routine, could you please point me at a tutorial explaining how to disable it (I searched the web but couldn't find anything)? I'm not a dev, but I'm not bad at modding
I'm happy to see that you are more privacy concerned than cm, and when Omnia gets released I think I will try to make a build for my galaxy grand i9082 (cuz there's not much development going on for that device)...
I'll try to make it as simple as I can.
Here is what I want:
CyanogenMod with root privileges
Full control over which app, service or system component can access my data and the Internet.
(at the moment for instance I can't alter the "network access" privileges of my apps)
Safe to use speech recognition software
Safe to use, sophisticated navigation software
My questions:
Is that even achievable without a ton of work?
Is there a simple way to flash CyanogenMod without pre-installed bloatware? (e.g. Google apps, Skype, Cortana, ...)
Which tools should I use to make sure that apps can only access what I want them to?
Is there speech recognition software for Android that doesn't require Internet access?
Is there a navigation app that is capable of using the offline maps of Google Maps without requiring an Internet connection?
(e.g. Google Maps makes itself useless if you don't update from their servers every 30 days)
From your experience, do apps refuse to work when you deny certain privileges?
ferivon said:
I'll try to make it as simple as I can.
Here is what I want:
CyanogenMod with root privileges
Full control over which app, service or system component can access my data and the Internet.
(at the moment for instance I can't alter the "network access" privileges of my apps)
Safe to use speech recognition software
Safe to use, sophisticated navigation software
My questions:
Is that even achievable without a ton of work?
Is there a simple way to flash CyanogenMod without pre-installed bloatware? (e.g. Google apps, Skype, Cortana, ...)
Which tools should I use to make sure that apps can only access what I want them to?
Is there speech recognition software for Android that doesn't require Internet access?
Is there a navigation app that is capable of using the offline maps of Google Maps without requiring an Internet connection?
(e.g. Google Maps makes itself useless if you don't update from their servers every 30 days)
From your experience, do apps refuse to work when you deny certain privileges?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude- You should start developing your own rom in this case.
But consfused here and at this point i think you dont know.
CyanogenMod & Cyanogen OS
Assuming- when you said, cortana etc etc--- i think you are on cyanogen OS.. Which is the original OS for 1+1.
1- To achieve, you need to work.
2- Some optimized COS builds in XDA one android dev section- try a search. but not latest 13.1.2-ZNH2KAS3P0. Root using SuperSU. and use system app uninstaller to remove apps you dont need. Some debloater zips also lurking around in XDA. If you install CyanogenMod, then no need of gapps flashing if you dont use google account.
3. you can stop background data for the apps you dont want. Settings in most roms.
4. Speech recognition can be used offline after u download all languages of your choice. Not 100% and dont use it.
5. Try Maps.me. i didnt know google map needed to be force updated every 30 days unless some one restructures the entire landscape and routes.
6. Certain apps refuse to work if you dont grant permission. yes. its like telling some 1 without hands to eat from hand,.
:good:
Thank you so much for your reply. I indeed did not know that there is a difference between Cyanogen OS and CyanogenMod. But if I understood you correctly, CyanogenMod comes without gapps. (I hope it also comes without Google Play Services?)
The offline speech recognition you linked to seems to be from Google. I bet it will require Google Play Services and an Internet connection after some time, just like Google Maps does and I'm really afraid of that.
I might give Maps.me a try, but I think Google Maps still has by far the best most detailed and correct maps especially when it comes to POIs.
I would consider using official Google Maps, if there was a 100% safe way to wipe all the data the app collects before I allow it to update the maps. Alternatively, maybe I could download the apps from a second device and just copy the map data over to my main device every once in a while.
An even more crazy approach might be to spoof the time/date data for Google Maps so that it thinks the 30 days haven't been reached yet.
But I would still be very concerned about Google Play Services. Would microG be sufficient for my purposes to replace Google Play Services?
edit:
Okay, I have a rooted CyanogenMod without gapps now on my OPO.
edit2:
I have Xposed with modules "Xprivacy" and "Per App Hacking" installed now.
Xprivacy is an app permission manager and "Per App Hacking" can be used to spoof the system time an app will see. Hopefully I'll be able to fool Google Maps with it.
edit3:
I have microG installed now. Hopefully this will be enough to run Google Maps.
I really need to make sure I understand Xprivacy before that though.
My recommendations:
1. I recommend full device encryption with long and secure boot password and easy to use pin lock screen password. Here's more info: http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/security/guide-separate-passwords-encrypted-t3048072
2. Get an email address from a provider that respects user privacy i.e. Riseup. https://riseup.net/
This is one the most important things to do if you don't want google / yahoo / microsoft scanning your email for surveillance / marketing purposes.
3. Use apps from F-Droid. It's an app "store" for open source apps.
4. Always use Afwall+ to have control over which apps have access to internet. Even better if you use Afwall with combination of Orbot. This way you can route some apps through tor (need a custom script though). Orwall does the same thing more easily.
5. Instead of closed source Supersu, use open source superuser http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/wip-selinux-capable-superuser-t3216394
6. For maps I recommend openstreetmap. Download Osmand from F-Droid. It has navigation too.
7. For cellbased location provider, use unified location provider found from F-droid. It's connected to microg projects.
8. For encrypted SMS use Silence from F-droid (recipient needs the same app if you use encryption).
9. For encrypted instant messaging use Conversations (XMPP client) from F-DROID. Or Riot (which will soon have strong encryption).
Hey tofu thanks for your answer, I appreciate it!
I'm only really concerned about my phones software spying on me.
About the email thing: I'm running my own email server for that.
But I'm still looking for a way to anonymously creating a google account without providing my phone number.
I'm using F-Droid already and it's great.
I'll never go back to the play store that's for sure.
And for anyone else reading this, please don't touch the amazon app store, it's pure poison.
I'm also using AFWall+ already, but I'm not satisfied at all. The creator doesn't really seem to care about ensuring that no data gets leaked ever. I read a lot of reports that data was being leaked every once in a while, especially during system boots.
This is really scary to me... I'd really like to have a safer firewall.
Blocking Internet/networking permissions directly just causes apps and the system to become extremely unstable. I soft-bricked my phone like 5 times while playing around with it the last few days.
I was not aware supersu was closed source. I'll switch to the open source alternative soon.
I just installed OsmAnd~ and I'm not very satisfied. Navigation was ok, the tts voice was absolutely terrible and I wasn't able to find a single POI, I wouldn't even be surprised if it would fail to find the next McDonald's to my place. Google Maps just seems completely unmatched to me.
And about that: I was actually able to get Google Maps running without Google Play Services installed and I was able to successfully use it offline, spoofing the system time for that app, so that my maps would never become outdated. I notices a few downsides though, for example it only works for car navigation (bicycle mode etc are not available). After completing the installation of all the microG components I wasn't able to get it to work anymore though (I couldn't download the offline maps, because I couldn't enter my google account data anymore...).
But I'll figure out how I did it and go with Google Maps then.
To complete the microG installation I installed unifiedNlp with GSMLocationNlpBackend.
For encrypted messaging I'll probably be forced to stay with WhatsApp, as I can't possibly convince all of my friends to switch. But hey at least WhatsApp claims that your messages are end-to-end encrypted.
But obviously WhatsApp will always know who I know... that problem seems pretty much unfixable to me though...
I have btw also tried to get Google Now (speech recognition) to work offline. But I was unsuccessful. I have read reports of others getting it to work for literal voice to text applications... it won't take voice commands though. So that's not very useful... unless there was a way to define your own voice commands somehow.
But my biggest worry at the moment really is the firewall. I feel like there is nothing that you can really trust to work reliably.
And also the fact that Xprivacy can't restrict file access to certain folders... it's either all or nothing.
The worst of all might actually be IPC though (inter process communication) which a lot of apps require permissions for. And from what I understand any app with that permission could use another app as a sort of proxy to access the Internet.
I'm using a Google-free device with maximum privacy, so maybe I can not answer all your questions but I can give you an idea. First of all - disclaimer: I'm here because my girlfriend has an Oneplus One (OPO), but I do not have one. I use her old Nexus 5 (N5), but you will get the general idea. You already noticed there is a difference between CyanogenOS (COS) and CyanogenMod (CM). It also took me a while to figure out that difference. If you still have a stock Android in your OPO, it should be a COS 13.1 which is based on Android 6.0.1 and comes with alot of bloatware from Google and Microsoft.
1. First step is to find a suitable ROM for your needs. If you are used to COS and have not much experience in chosing custom ROMs, you should give CM a try. Here is the official wiki which includes Download links and installation instructions: https://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Bacon_Info
2. The 2nd step after installing CM is the full device encryption, can be found in Settings > Security. If you do it on a clean phone without any apps and data it only takes a couple of minutes and chances of breaking stuff are low at this step.
3. Now I usually root it (with SuperSU) and install some magic which is called XPOSED framework. It's something which allows you to install modules on your phone on system level, not like an Appstore, but rather like a Tweakstore. There are a lot if chances you break stuff and most of the modules do not work with CM, however, one module to beat them all is the XPRIVACY module. It gives you back full control on everything. You can manage App permissions, you can fake permissions or if apps do not want to run with your set of permissions, you can even feed fake data (like wrong GPS signals, etc.). Read more here. http://repo.xposed.info/module/biz.bokhorst.xprivacy
4. F-Droid, yeah, the one open-source repository for your new apps. I'll install it at this point.
5. Now, that the device is flashed with CM, probably rooted and with a custom recovery, you have to flash a stock recovery again and lock the bootloader. Stock recovery because it does not allow any malicious party (hacker with physical access, police, intelligence services, etc.) to deploy any code to your phone which compromises your privacy. Locked bootloader is important to disallow any malicious party to boot anything they want which also compromises your privacy.
And this is pretty much what you need to get started, a rock solid environment free from Google. Make sure you have a strong PIN, I also use randomized screen locker, so people can not "observe" the way you enter your PIN.
For encrypted calls and SMS there is Signal, but that does not work without Google services and LibreSignal, the Websockets version, was discontinued just recently. For encrypted IM use ChatSecure rather than Conversations. Both are XMPP clients, but Conversations does not allow you to import or export OTR keys, which is very annoying for an Jabber client. For not so sensitive chats, I use telegram.
Finally, not having Google Play and Google Services available, makes the experience a totally different for the android device. Apps like Snapchat which do not require Google, but still do for some unknown reasons checks for Google, wont run. Also, a lot of apps work without Google, but you can't install them without downloading suspicious APKs from dubious websites. Be very carefull from where you download and install software if you can not find what you need in F-Droid.
I hope that helps you for your considerations.
---
Edit, one more final note. I also use OsmAnd and have to say it never let me down on any occasion (except when I forgot to download the maps before going somewhere remote without internet). The geodata quality is excellent in most urban areas, but the interace and usability are a mess. If you find your way around in the interface, the navigation works out pretty well. I sometimes have issues calculating very long routes, but you start to live with that.
Thanks for your input 5chdn! Most of the stuff you mentioned it already on my phone.
I made some progress yesterday and I'd like to share my current configuration:
All the apps I mention in this post are (at the time of writing) available in F-Droid, unless stated otherwise.
Everything I mention in this post is free and open source, unless stated otherwise.
Recovery Image: TWRP
ROM: CyanogenMod
'Apps' that have to be flashed:
SuperUser (this roots your phone which means you can grant root access to apps)
Xposed (provides a lot of important privacy tools)
Apps:
F-Droid (app store that provides free open source apps)
AFWall+ (manage which app can access the Internet)
Autostarts (manage triggers that apps can use to start themselves)
AdAway (can remove ads from apps)
Xposed Modules:
BootManager (manage which apps can start on boot)
Xprivacy (manage/spoof app permissions for privacy)
Safely using Google Maps offline permanently:
Please note: Google Maps is not open source.
Install microG (open source alternative to Google Play Services)
The installation complete installation consists of:
'microG Services Core' (aka 'GsmCore') (app)
At the time of writing this app is NOT available in F-Droid. This app also automatically installs 'µg unifiedNlp (NO GAPPS)' for you.
'microG Services Framework Proxy' (aka 'GsfProxy') (app)
'FakeGapps' (Xposed module)
'FakeStore' (app)
'XposedGmsCoreUnifiedNlp' (Xposed module)
'LocalGsmNlpBackend' (app)
'NominatimNlpBackend' (app)
'µg unifiedNlp (NO GAPPS)' (app) (will be installed automatically!)
Install 'Per App Hacking' (Xposed module)
Use this module to spoof the system time/date that Google Maps sees e.g. to '2016-10-14 10:00' so that offline maps don't become outdated. The feature to spoof the time is called 'time machine'.
I would really like to improve what I got so far and share it with the community.
If you know of anything that could help improve privacy please tell me.
I do not mention things like device encryption, passwords, lock screens etc, as these are a separate issue.
All features, full flexibility, no bloat -- one simple solution!
On the one hand, it is frequently being suggested to build into Lineage various apps and features. Most of these suggestions are required by some users only, would bloat the core ROM, or have other downsides. On the other hand, these apps and features are usually already implemented somewhere, most users want incremental updates and many would prefer a fully-featured ROM without GApps installed.
To satisfy those wishes and yet avoid the downsides, I suggest simply supporting F-Droid and microG instead:
Idea outline:
Provide API for and build in F-Droid Privileged Extension
Thus have a Store, with automatic updates, and all bells and whistles
Ship with (rebranded fork of) F-Droid pre-installed and a custom LineageOS repository pre-configured (like Guardian Project in F-Droid)
Add AOSP apps, Lineage apps and Lineage-specific versions / branches of apps to LineageOS repository
Use "unstable update" marker in F-Droid to beta test new versions, e.g. of launcher, locker, ...
For additional, bloating apps and features, have users install what's already there (for instance, Location Services: UnifiedNLP with LocalWifiNlpBackend)
Add to Lineage Wiki a curated list of well-tested app suggestions for basic tasks (for instance, WebDAV: DAVdroid, Tasker, Etar, ...).
Key Advantages:
Developer effort most efficiently used
Faster time to market, because much is already implemented
Higher quality, less bloat, more features by referring users to existing apps and joining efforts
Easier innovation, because versions of pre-installed / system apps are publishable like regular apps
Developers happy, because LineageOS is clean at its core
Enthusiasts happy, because they can built on a minimal ROM
End Users happy, because they can easily use ROM, using curated list of apps
Regular, normal app updates for all system apps and pre-installed apps through Lineage repository
Does not prevent using GApps, but improves life without
Major step towards fully featured ROM, and yet without any proprietary apps or services
For good reasons, it's what Google does, it's what GNU/Linux distributions do.
One framework will solve most problems, provide most features ever suggested.
This will make everybody happy.
tldr
Bump!!!!
1, 2, 3 - Fully agree. If I had a proper Play Store alternative I wouldn't need Gapps at all.
4 - Essential in what way? I'd say its best to have only AOSP apps and to let every user download the apps he uses.
There would be practically no bloatware available and the ROM would truly give users the best choices.
8 - Additional preinstalled apps? Rather not.
9 - Rather AOSP mail. Someone might not want to use K-9, but for those who do they can always download it.
10 - Same as 9, avoid preinstalling apps that are already provided by AOSP.
11 - Eleven is OK for me, but still I find it somehow way underpowered. I really miss Apollo from early CM days...
14, 15 - I agree on ROM type. Allow users to select nightly, weekly or stable update channel through settings. Regarding basic preloaded apps, it would be OK only by means of AROMA installer where you could choose which ones you actually want/need.
Cheers!
In this thread it is being suggested to build into Lineage various Launchers, Themes, Widgets, Apps, WebDAV support, et cetera. As a contrasting response to that, I suggest simply supporting F-Droid and microG instead. A Lineage repository for F-Droid could include all AOSP apps; F-Droids own repository would supplement this.
It appears to me, almost everything which has been popularly requested would thereby be solved.
dj_chapz said:
4 - Essential in what way? I'd say its best to have only AOSP apps and to let every user download the apps he uses.
There would be practically no bloatware available and the ROM would truly give users the best choices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here, "essential" refers to, more or less, what's needed to install other apps (launcher, browser, file manager),
but could be thought of as to include functions, which were typical for feature phones, too (basic messenger, dailer, calendar).
dj_chapz said:
8 - Additional preinstalled apps? Rather not.
9 - Rather AOSP mail. Someone might not want to use K-9, but for those who do they can always download it.
10 - Same as 9, avoid preinstalling apps that are already provided by AOSP.
11 - Eleven is OK for me, but still I find it somehow way underpowered. I really miss Apollo from early CM days...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These were just written-out to illustrate what would be possible.
I'll adjust the original post for clarity.
Anybody can fork it and add their ideas. Some people do not want to support fdroid. Keep it clean + gapps.
goorek said:
Anybody can fork it and add their ideas. Some people do not want to support fdroid. Keep it clean + gapps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if F-droid wasn't preinstalled, could be a Lineage repo for it?
LineageOS IMHO should really seek to become the ROM for professional PIM, self-employed, small-business or even big-business device users which seek to avoid GApps and rely on a clean slim ROM. So I like many of grefnab's ideas but currently have no clear idea what the stakeholders of LineageOS have as main goals for the midterm.
Having everything App based in an "FOSS App Package" (as GApps and commercial/device App replacement) with advanced support by LineageOS and/or other main CustomROMs would be geat. See my post in What features would you like to see in Lineage that CM didn't have?
support 1-3
I really hope that this thread will get recognition. I really like the idea of having priviliged F-Droid build into the ROM.
That would make everything much easier.
I fully support the three first points
Provide API for and build in F-Droid Privileged Extensio
Thus have a Store, with automatic updates, and all bells and whistles
Ship with F-Droid pre-installed and a custom LineageOS repository (like Guardian Project) pre-configured
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rest is nice but I would put emphasis on the first three points. They seem like a real advantage to have.
Rephrased some sentences to clarify
This seems like a very good idea to me :good:
I mean it is basically the same procedure Google has in place to keep its apps up-to-date without people having to update their firmwares. Being able to update the apps independently from the rom would be a huge benefit in my opinion. While I don't use gapps on my phone at all, I understand, that some people find it essential. Therefore it would be a bad idea if this interfered with installing gapps in any way.
herrritschwumm said:
While I don't use gapps on my phone at all, I understand, that some people find it essential. Therefore it would be a bad idea if this interfered with installing gapps in any way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would not prevent installing GApps, it would simplify and improve usage without them, though.
+1 for having LOS F-droid repo and bundling F-droid and having fewer other preinstalled apps.
I think this thread is a very good idea!
Just a clarification on technicalities:
microG kinda requires signature spoofing. More specifically MicroG effectively has two principal frameworks inside -- location services and GCM. Location services would work regardless, but iirc for GCM to work properly the ROM itself would need a signature spoofing support. All other ways to enable spoofing employing needlepatch or whatever are ridiculously impractical and one cannot expect normal users to bother with them.
I have two phones (OP1 and OP3) and for both the choice is of exactly ONE custom rom only (based on LineageOS14.1) with a spoofing patch. Therefore applying spoofing patch into the main code base would be great. However the caveat here is that any app or framework like SafetyNET would most likely stop working. Since the developers decided to push for compatibility, I seriously doubt that they would implement signature spoofing.
They could try to implement the patch in a flashable zip like with root but I don't know if it is possible.
fully agree for spoofing support since we are out ot cm
Sent from my Nexus 5 CAF using Tapatalk
I would like to see signature spoofing built into lineageOS or an optional flashible zip, too. But right now a flashible zip could take a long time to flash. See: https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_GmsCore/issues/196
Sounds great.
dj_chapz said:
If I had a proper Play Store alternative I wouldn't need Gapps at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could try Yalp Store, it's there in the F-Droid repository.
@grefnab: My flashable zip help those that want to automatically without any effort: remove GApps, install microG and F-Droid Privileged Extension.
1plus said:
Just a clarification on technicalities:
microG kinda requires signature spoofing. More specifically MicroG effectively has two principal frameworks inside -- location services and GCM. Location services would work regardless, but iirc for GCM to work properly the ROM itself would need a signature spoofing support. All other ways to enable spoofing employing needlepatch or whatever are ridiculously impractical and one cannot expect normal users to bother with them.
However the caveat here is that any app or framework like SafetyNET would most likely stop working. Since the developers decided to push for compatibility, I seriously doubt that they would implement signature spoofing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tingle is very easy to use, if you find something impratical just tell me.
SafetyNet do pass for me.