Database Users

Epic 4G review

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/16/epic-4g-review/
Surprisingly, the now-infamous AGPS bug is still alive and well right now on the Epic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Epic 4G review
By Chris Ziegler posted Aug 16th 2010 12:01AM
Review
Of the seemingly countless variants of the Galaxy S that Samsung's in the process of deploying around the globe, one stands out in a couple very unique (and important) ways: Sprint's Epic 4G. The Epic hangs on to a couple of the Galaxy line's most important characteristics -- namely the 1GHz Hummingbird processor and the 4-inch Super AMOLED display -- but adds in a sliding landscape QWERTY keyboard, support for the wickedly fast WiMAX network that Sprint shares with partner Clearwire, and a handful of other notable one-off customizations.
We've already taken a look at two of the other US-bound Galaxy S models -- AT&T's Captivate and T-Mobile's Vibrant -- but it shouldn't take more than a quick glance at the Epic to tell you that this is a very, very different beast. Becoming just the second WiMAX phone released in the States (and the first with a physical keyboard), this is a pretty critical release for Sprint at a time when its subscriber count is just starting to pick up after several quarters of decline -- and making things even more interesting is the fact that Sprint's first WiMAX handset -- HTC's EVO 4G -- is simply one of the best phones we've ever reviewed. In other words, yeah, you could say that the Epic's got a lot to live up to. Is it up to the task? Let's find out.
Epic 4G review
Packaging
Sprint has ditched the strange (or cute, depending on your attitude) "TV dinner" packaging of the EVO in favor of a more traditional box here. Boring, yes, but look on the bright side: unlike the EVO, this setup is easier to keep closed (assuming you care and you're going to hang onto it) because it doesn't rely on a flimsy cardboard sleeve to keep the lid on, and fortunately, they've gone with a really thick, sturdy, high-quality material for both halves of the box. Inside you'll find -- besides the phone, of course -- a USB charger, micro-USB cable (there's no cable permanently attached to the charger, a pretty common trend these days), and the same surprisingly decent earbuds found with the Vibrant and Captivate. Anyone intending to use the Epic for serious music use is still encouraged to bring their own headphones or earbuds of choice, but it's pretty cool that Sammy's offering buds in the box that are high-quality enough to include replaceable tips.
You also get an SD-to-microSD converter that you'll be able to use with the 16GB microSD card that comes pre-installed underneath the phone's back cover (though you don't need to remove the battery to get at it, which is nice). Why 16GB when AT&T's and T-Mobile's versions only include 2GB? Good question: turns out the Epic only has a little over 400MB of app storage internally -- not the capacious 16GB of the others -- so Sprint compensates by throwing in a beefy card. Though that'll work just fine for 95 percent of users, it's important to note that this means you can't get it up to 48GB of available storage by picking up a 32GB card. Since it's obvious Sprint tried to make this phone as "epic" as possible, it's unclear why they left out that internal capacity; the only thing we can think of is that they simply ran out of room with all of the phone's modifications over the standard Galaxy S like the slider mechanism, the LED flash, and the WiMAX circuitry. Hard to say.
Hardware
Of all the Galaxy S flavors we've seen, the Epic 4G -- despite its name and form factor -- might have the most nondescript appearance. Depending on your personality, that's either a good thing or a bad thing (for what it's worth, we liked it). The front of the phone is dominated by an expanse of black gloss rimmed by a matching black bezel, which makes it almost intimidating when it's sitting there with the screen turned off because you can't readily see the outline of the screen or the capacitive buttons below it -- just a whole lot of black with tastefully-proportioned Sprint and Samsung logos at the top and bottom, respectively. In fact, it's so black that it almost seems like you could be looking at the back of the phone.
Speaking of the back, Sprint got it right where AT&T and T-Mobile frankly got it wrong. It's a subtle black soft-touch -- not the Vibrant's cheap, glossy plastic or the Captivate's faux carbon fiber weave -- which gives you just a little bit of grip when you're holding it. The sparkling flecks in the back cover are actually one of the few concessions to style on the entire phone, and though we generally don't like our phones to sparkle, we'll begrudgingly admit that it probably would've been a bit too plain if they'd just done it in a flat black. Another place where the Epic wins over its Galaxy-branded cousins is just below the 5 megapixel camera, where you'll find an honest-to-goodness LED flash (more on this later). One very minor complaint we have about the back is that it pries off; we always prefer the sliding style because it involves less of that uncomfortable "I wonder if I'm going to break this" feeling you get when you're trying to yank a flimsy cover straight up and out, but considering how rarely you should need to get in there, it's basically a non-issue.
The sides of the Epic are where you'll find the only other blatantly stylish element on the entire phone: a thin chrome ring that runs all the way around, roughly in the middle of the edge, without extending into the keyboard area at all. We don't frequently say this about chrome, but it's tasteful and it actually works here. You'll also find the usual array of edge-mounted doodads, including a volume rocker on the left side, power and two-stage camera buttons on the right, and a 3.5mm headphone jack and micro-USB port up top. Like other Galaxy S models, the Epic has a neat retractable door to protect the port, a far better arrangement than the flimsy rubber plugs you usually see (though we still don't think micro-USB ports really need a lot of protection, considering they were specifically designed to be robust). The volume and camera buttons have plenty of feel, but the power button -- which is more flush than the others to prevent accidental actuation -- would be much easier to deal with on the top for a couple reasons: one, that's where you usually find it; and two, every time you press it, you risk accidentally sliding open the phone a bit. Considering how often you press power to take the screen in and out of standby, this is actually a topic worth discussing, but it's not a deal-breaker (and interestingly, we didn't like the design of the power button on the EVO, either).
The Epic's slide mechanism is a fairly heavy, smooth spring-mounted arrangement that feels solid with no wobble; on our unit there's just a tiny hint of give on the screen if you actively try to twist it, but we don't notice it in normal day-to-day use. That leads us into the keyboard, which is a completely flat, five-row type with a good deal of separation between the keys. You've got a good, strong "click" on each key -- no mushiness here -- but we definitely would've preferred a bit of doming, and we would've even been happy to sacrifice the separation in exchange for making the surface area of each key larger. The layout is a mixed bag -- we enjoyed having access to big Menu, Back, Home, and Search keys astride the letters, but the placement of Backspace and Enter gave us a little trouble... and we definitely weren't feeling the need for a dedicated smiley face key. Overall, we'd say that the Epic's QWERTY falls behind those of Android contemporaries like the myTouch 3G Slide (manufactured by keyboard specialist HTC, of course) and the Droid 2, but that's not to say that it's bad -- it's leaps and bounds beyond the dismal Moment, for example, and we imagine that anyone would be able to get fast and error-free on it within a couple days of use.
What surprised us the first time we picked up the Epic was how light it felt -- 15 grams less than the EVO, to be exact. Frankly, we wouldn't have minded it being a bit heavier, which leads us to wonder whether they could've squeezed in something beefier than a 1500mAh battery without causing problems. Though the Epic's screen is three-tenths of an inch smaller than the EVO's, the two are surprisingly close in length and width -- in other words, you shouldn't consider this over the EVO simply because you think it's going to be easier to hold. At 14.2mm deep, the Epic is noticeably thicker, but still comfortable in the hand (it's thin enough so that your fingers will likely still arch beyond the back cover) and it doesn't produce a ridiculous bulge in your pocket -- unless you're wearing something skinny and fashionable, of course. Then again, there aren't many smartphones that look good in that situation.
The Epic's 4-inch Super AMOLED display at WVGA resolution is exactly the same as the one you find on the Captivate and Vibrant -- and as you can probably guess, it's absolutely glorious. If you're not accustomed to these displays (even if you're already familiar with standard AMOLED), you'll be pretty shocked by the insane black level and the rich, dazzling color saturation that you get from these. Despite what you may have heard to the contrary, we'll echo what we said in our look at the AT&T and T-Mobile models that it still doesn't perform as well as a traditional LCD in direct sunlight, though it isn't completely washed out; in our experience, we could always make out the contents of the screen if we squinted hard enough. Since the screens are literally identical and the Epic won't be out until the end of the month, we might even recommend heading down to an AT&T or T-Mobile store beforehand and checking out the Captivate / Vibrant -- you'll get a good sense of what to expect when you pick up your phone, both from a display and a software perspective.
Below the display are four capacitive buttons -- the usual ones you find on Android devices: Menu, Home, Back, and Search, in that order from left to right. The buttons are actually below the Samsung logo, which means there's plenty of separation between them and the bottom of the display, but we found that they still suffer from a couple problems. First, they don't seem to be quite sensitive enough -- we found ourselves occasionally tapping twice to actuate them (we also noticed this on the touchscreen, suggesting that the entire capacitive surface could stand to be tweaked a bit). We also had the same problem here that we'd had on other Galaxy S models, which is that the buttons are backlit on a different schedule than the display. They seem to go out after five seconds and come back on whenever a button or the screen is touched, which is actually more distracting then if they simply stayed lit all the time. The behavior here might make sense if the buttons were more readily distinguishable without backlighting, but as it stands, they aren't -- we found ourselves leaning in to see the darkened icons more closely on a couple occasions. Basically, the simplest solution would've just been to paint on the buttons so you can see them without light (as Motorola and HTC usually do) and save a little battery power in the process.
Speaking of battery power, we got 3 hours and 43 minutes of use from 97 percent power to shutdown with the phone in 4G hotspot mode while occasionally interacting with the handset, continuously streaming internet radio, and doing... well, you know, other "internet things" on our connected laptop. That bests the EVO by a few minutes, but we'd argue that it's within the margin of error -- especially since 4G battery life seems to be affected drastically by city and signal strength (we performed all of our testing in Chicago's Loop, where WiMAX flows like water). Interestingly, we checked Android's built-in battery monitor shortly before the Epic shut down -- the screen where you can see what components and apps have been draining your juice the most -- and were surprised to see it report that the display had allegedly been responsible for 55 percent of the drain, despite the fact that we had played with the phone for perhaps 10 to 15 minutes of the entire test. We suspect the app isn't properly accounting for the 4G radio, but that's just a guess -- and if by some odd chance it's accurate, that paints a pretty scary picture for the power consumption of these Super AMOLED displays. We haven't had an opportunity to complete a more traditional battery test in normal (read: non-hotspot) phone usage yet, but our preliminary testing suggests that you should have no problem getting through a typical day, particularly if you're smart about 4G radio management and you aren't keeping the screen on any more than you have to.
For 4G performance, this is always a tricky topic -- as we mentioned, network performance varies widely by location and other variables, but we were generally very happy both with on-device data and hotspot mode. Basically, it never stopped feeling "WiFi fast" both in terms of speed and latency, and that's exactly what you need to make a fantastic mobile hotspot. We were consistently getting around 4Mbps down and 1Mbps up during our testing; when we'd tested our EVO back in our review, we'd seen numbers as high as 7.5Mbps down and 3Mbps up, but checking it alongside the Epic revealed lower numbers more in-line with the Sammy, so we'll chalk it up to the network.
Camera
We weren't expecting the world out of the Epic's primary camera; given that other versions of the phone don't even ship with any sort of flash, it was obvious that Samsung prioritized a thin shell over heavy-duty optics. That said, we came away really happy with the stills we were able to capture. Maybe we were just having a good photography day, but whatever the case, shots looked clean and sharp with minimum artifacting at 100 percent zoom.
Of course, the Epic ships with not one, but two cameras: the 5 megapixel primary on back paired with a weakling VGA cam on front. Make no mistake -- this second camera isn't to be used for anything but video calling, and considering that the quality of your video call is limited by bandwidth more than by camera quality, it'll work just fine there. Yes, the Epic's camera app allows you to toggle between cameras (the second camera is used for a "self portrait" mode), but trust us -- you really don't want to do that.
Video capture was less impressive than the still shots. The problem, really, is that this is advertised as a 720p recorder. Yes, true, you can toggle a 720p mode -- but to associate the quality of the output you get with anything you'd consider to be 720p is a complete fallacy. It's just roundly not good at that size. What Samsung probably should've done is cap the output to 480p and quietly offer 1280 x 720 as some sort of "extended resolution" mode, which would've gotten them off the hook at least a little bit. On the plus side, we found audio quality to be decent, though not quite as strong as the Droid 2 or Droid X.
Epic 4G camera samples
Software
In most respects, the Epic 4G runs the same TouchWiz 3.0-skinned build of Android 2.1 that you find on other versions of the Galaxy S, which unfortunately means that we've got most of the same complaints. Many of our annoyances probably won't bug people who are just getting into Android for the first time, but some seasoned users -- particularly of stock Eclair or Froyo -- will be ready to punch Samsung's UI designers in the face after just a few minutes with the Epic. Our biggest issue is with the cartoonish, overly colorful appearance of everything, a problem exacerbated by the fact that this display makes bright colors look... well, really bright. For some reason, TouchWiz puts a seemingly randomly-colored square behind every app icon in the launcher, which -- to put it very bluntly -- looks stupid. We also don't like the fact that the launcher can only be toggled between a horizontal-swipe grid mode and a vertical-swipe list mode, which means that the standard vertical-swipe grid -- the one you've used on practically every other Android phone, ever -- isn't available.
Annoyances continue to the home screen, where Samsung has elected to permanently display a large panel number indicator (they use a 7-panel setup, by the way) immediately below the status bar. We don't mind when they're permanently displayed (in fact, looking at the way the Droid X and Droid 2 do it, we prefer it to be permanent), but TouchWiz's is huge -- large enough so that we actually think they could've squeezed in another widget / icon row if they wanted to. Sammy should've taken a cue from Google, HTC, or heck, even Motorola's first-gen Blur UI on the right way to implement this.
Generally, these manufacturer skins exist with the claimed goal of enhancing the platform's stock functionality, but we actually found a case on the Epic where the opposite is true: the phone's lock screen consists of a circle in the center of the screen that you drag up to unlock... and that's it. Gone is Android 2.x's ability to toggle ringer mute from here, a nice touch considering that you need to unlock, press power, and select a menu option otherwise. To our surprise, also missing is the neat "puzzle lock" mode available on the Captivate and Vibrant, which allows you to immediately view messages, missed calls, and the like by dragging and dropping a puzzle piece into its matching hole on the screen. It's not clear why Sprint would've decided to kill it off, because all that's left is a gimped lock screen (with the option of using Android's regular pattern lock).
As bloatware goes, Sprint and Samsung have done an okay effort -- just okay -- at holding back. When you turn the phone on for the first time, the installed apps consume two full pages in the launcher, which feels manageable. Besides the normal Galaxy S custom stuff like AllShare and MediaHub, you get Qik (with video calling capability, of course), Sprint Football and NASCAR, Sprint Hotspot, TeleNav-powered Sprint Navigation (which you might never use since Google Maps Navigation is included fully functional and unhindered), ThinkFree Office (lacking the Google Docs integration of the version available in the Market), and Sprint Zone, which is basically a one-stop shop for finding Sprint stores, checking out your account, and getting quick access to apps the carrier recommends. Sprint TV's also included, of course, but it just hangs on 4G whenever you try to watch a program -- we had to turn it off and use EV-DO to make it work, which is pretty counterproductive considering how much better it could look on a faster, lower-latency connection.
Apart from an occasional stutter while scrolling in the browser, the Epic's performance felt in line with what we should expect of its Hummingbird core -- in other words, it was generally responsive and smooth (Linpack scores ranged between roughly 7.6 and 8.2 MFLOPS). Of course, by Android's nature, it's easy to gum up the works by installing too many apps trying to do too many things at once -- but with a few of our essentials installed and the device fully synced to our Google account, everything sped right along. We did, however, notice an occasional hiccup with the phone's many window transition animations where they'd flash or stutter; it was hard to tell whether this was a performance issue or simply a bug, and in the end, we just turned them off and didn't worry about it. Also encouraging is the fact that the Epic is running Android 2.1 out of the box; we can only expect performance to improve once they've deployed 2.2 (it's not often that you'll hear us spin the lack of 2.2 into a positive, so relish in it while you can).
Surprisingly, the now-infamous AGPS bug is still alive and well right now on the Epic. We're not sure how Sprint can justify releasing it with this bug now so well-known, well-documented, and critical to the operation of the phone -- seriously, it cannot find you most of the time -- but we suppose it'll just get fixed at the same time as the remainder of the Galaxy S models in September. In other words, unless we see a quick firmware update prior to the 31st, don't expect Google Maps to work particularly well out of the box.
Wrap-up
Let's take our attention away from the specifics of this phone for a second. Speaking in more general terms, it's really impressive that Sprint has already managed to release two very high-end, exceptionally desirable devices built specifically to take advantage of its 4G network. In fact, we'd say that the Epic and the EVO -- even more than the Pre -- have vaulted Sprint from its status as an also-ran to perhaps the most gadget-savvy carrier in the US today. If you'd asked us 18 months ago whether we ever thought we'd be saying that, we'd have laughed at you. Of course, the Epic can't just be geeky, it's got to be good -- Sprint isn't out of the danger zone yet for subscriber churn, and it's going to need average Joes and Janes to buy these right out of stock. In other words, it needs to parlay the buzz that the EVO generated into a permanent slow burn, and the Epic is a critical part of that equation.
So is it the right phone for the job? In a word, yes -- the Epic 4G is a great device. Killer, even. Nothing speaks to us more strongly during the course of a review than finishing it and saying, "alright, I'm ready to buy this thing," and the Epic is on the short list of phones that has managed to do it. More than its Galaxy S siblings, it feels like the Epic has overcome its shortcomings -- notably the forgettable UI skin -- to shine, and it's a phone we could easily imagine using day to day. Only thing is, the EVO is also on that short list for us -- and the better camera, bigger screen, and $50 savings versus the Epic still make it our winner in this 4G shootout, though only by the thinnest of margins. Needless to say, if you need a physical keyboard and you're looking for the one of the most musclebound Android phones money can buy, we wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

I pretty much know as much as there is about this phone since I purchased my mother her vibrant, I just can't wait for my epic though!
Im hoping the battery will not be an issue, although once we get some custom kernels we should be good.
15 days 6 hours 49 minutes to go!
Sent from my Nextel™ using the XDA app

"Best of all, the GPS issues which many have reported affecting Galaxy S family devices aren’t apparent on the Epic 4G, with our review unit proving capable of quickly establishing a fix and tracking it accordingly"
via Slashgears review.

Don't believe the hype, first of all if you want a good professional review please don't even spit in Engadget's direction, they're biased to any device that isn't made by some type of fruit company.
Take a look at cnet pcmag or other credible source, just look at how they downplayed the camera making it seen like it was worse than an Evo's then look at Gizmodo which had visual comparisons vs the iPhone4 where the Epic clearly dominated that camera. In between those reviews is a spec of truth, both are absolutely biased for different reasons and neither are professionally done, don't let these "journalists" (hobby bloggers at best) let you decide what is or isn't a good device.

I believe that the GPS is indeed a problem in quite a few Samsung Galaxy phones..... but whether not your GPS will work or not is a luck of a draw since there are people who have absolutely no problems then people who have completely non-functioning AGPS.
GPS is a very important function for me. I use it almost daily on my phone. if not for navigation, for quick searching of businesses etc.
I figure if the Epic I receive doesn't have functioning GPS, i'm going to return it for another until I get one that does work.
As for the review, its about as UN-biased as I've seen Engadget. If you thought the Epic review was biased, you must not have read the iPhone 4 VS Evo article they posted awhile ago. I was actually surprised that Gizmodo, which is like BIASED-APPLECENTRAL, had such a positive review of the epic!

Yeah, engadget reviews are pretty bad. It has a negative vibe throughout the review and at the end they call it "killer." Talk about a roller coaster ride

First impressions.

I ordered the silver 551 (64GB) from amazon on monday, as well as an el-cheapo bluezoon wallet case.
Setup was easy, I'm coming to the zf2 from a note 3, so getting used to the new locations of the volume and power buttons is still taking some adjusting. Everything seems snappy enough at least for my purposes, and after rooting (make sure you update busybox after using the temporary cwm, or tibu seems to complain), and using tibu to blow away some extra crud, my battery life has been acceptable, with 22% usage thus far through my day, doing the things I usually do, texting, answering calls, etc. My note 3 with Alliance would be down about 15%, at this time, but it's not apples to apples comparison.
Good things compared to my note 3:
There's a certain section of the interstate on my commute where I always drop a call on the note 3. 2 trips now both directions with the zenfone 2, and it's held solid. So I don't know if it's a handoff problem at the tower, or what, but it works now, and didn't before. Although I will miss the nightly "hang on, coming up on deadman's corner, I'll call you back" during the middle of every phone call on my commute home.
Minor gripes: I wish the home keys were backlit. At night using it to control plex on my TV, I was having to guess where the back button was. I also find myself regularly swiping too low on the keyboard when going for the space bar and picking off the home button, which of course drops me out of whatever I was typing. The ASUS kb is working fine for me, but I'll switch to the google one anyway because I just like it better. I miss the s-spen, but I'll live.
Why the ZF2 over the note 3? My daughter busted her note 2, and I refuse to buy samsung anymore with the locked bootloaders, so wanted to try a few things. Gonna run the ZF2 for a while, and really want a huawei p8 max when it comes available.
As to the bluezoon case? Well, the less said, the better. It's a POS. But it holds my ID and card and cash, and will suffice until something better comes along. It took me a while to figure out that the magnet in the case was causing my zf2 to think it had a different case on (that big circle swipe thingie?), but if I don't fold the case all the way back, it's fine.
Time will tell, but so far, the extra 32GB of storage is nice, and everything is working fine that I regularly use, so I consider it 299 well spent.
Time to update the old sig.

I'm having better connection on troubled areas with this phone that I've ever had with any other before (including Motorola, which were the second best) so I think the radios are good for real, even the GPS is working good for me inside the car (previously I had to put it in the dash for it too work)

Overall love

Yes, yes, it's possible to love a phone. Heck, you sleep next to it, don't you? Rate this thread to indicate your love for the Moto Z2 Force, all things considered. A higher rating indicates that the Moto Z2 Force is an incredible phone that you enjoy tremendously. You love it.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

The best Android phone I've owned to date.

I love the phone enough to buy it multiple times, searching for the combination of carrier compatibility, unlockable bootloader and color.
I also love the phone enough to overlook its main shortcomings (no headphone jack, not truly waterproof, small battery) I love the hardware enough to use an unrooted phone. *gasp* literally every Android device I've ever owned has been rooted within a week, my first was a Nexus one.
This is a bit of a monumental device for me. It's my first ”phablet." My last daily driver was a Sony Z3 compact and a Z1 compact before that. I dropped my Sony trying to put it in my pocket while juggling keys, a backpack and my water bottle. The back glass shattered and the front has a hairline fracture.
Initially I was going to get the Z5 compact but I decided maybe I'd try something a little bigger, so I ordered an Xperia XZ from Amazon. It was a nice phone, but I hated the purplish color of the "black" model and I found myself constantly worrying about it after my last drop, so back it went in about a week.
The thing is, I hate using cases. What's the point in buying a phone you like the look and feel of just to cover it up? Enter the Z2 force. When I first saw promos talking about the shatter proof screen I was intrigued. I was never miffed by the easily scratched screen because an $8 screen protector is all you need to solve that problem.
Between the piece of mind of an unbreakable screen, stupid fast experience, solid aluminum body and gorgeous OLED display this phone is a keeper.

It's one of those phones that got shoved under the rug the second everyone saw the battery specs on paper, myself included. My previous long term daily driver was a Nexus 6 for the most part and that was the last high end, highly customizable Android phone I've used before briefly dailying a Nextbit Robin and then switching to Essential PH-1 for a few months. Both of those have great custom ROM support, but the battery life on both and signal strength on the PH-1 with T-Mobile were barely tolerable, so the only other sub $500 flagship/high end device with an up to date hardware feel was the Z2F from T-Mobile ($375 new), and glad I took the plunge despite the smallish battery capacity. From my experience, Motorola (at least as of their 2013 and newer models) have had a great track record for keeping close to stock Android experience, superb cellular signal, and great battery life and efficiency (despite often using smaller batteries, ie Moto X2, Moto G2, Moto E2). Somehow their devices always had awesome standby to screen on time efficiency. Essential didn't do this for me as much as I wanted to like it (although those on Verizon had a completely different perspective of that device).
This device gets some seriously great battery life (I've managed 8+ hrs sot with 20+ hrs total discharge from 100% charge capacity), excellent signal strength (probably why the battery doesn't suffer too much), solid screen (for those that do lots of accidental drops), front facing flash (with forward facing torch option in Moto camera flash settings), useful Moto gestures to enable main torch and camera with simple chop and twist gestures even when screen is off, solid and super thin build (Jerryrigeverything on YouTube approved it in his infamous bend test, it passed!), and because it's so thin, a simple tpu case gives this phone a perfect grip and thickness. There's a lot to like about this phone, it certainly checks all the right boxes. Most of all, it's the Android device with a Nexus/pixel-like experience; unlockable bootloader, easy to root, custom ROM availability (although from what I gather it currently works best in it's Motorola stock factory firmware form, custom ROMs are currently suffering from weaker cellular signal, failing safetynet due to the current state of selinux being set to permissive, and no sound in default video recording, also on some ROMs WiFi calling and Moto mods have issues), and to be quite frank, this device is very livable with stock firmware, just add root via Magisk and customize from there. Nexus 6 was by far my favorite device, but it is starting to feel a bit dated at this point, it had (and continues to have) some of the best third party dev support, and everything almost always works as good or better than what Google offered in it's stock Android form, that device was truly ahead of it's time and just like this device, was criticized and thrown under the bus numerous times, but low and behold a year or so after it's release, it was one of the best, if not the best device to mod. Of course with this device it's a bit finicky to mod or convert to another carrier firmware (if at all possible), but when it comes to working in it's native firmware for the carrier they were configured to run on, it truly doesn't miss a beat. You get a lot for the asking price, and until another developer device like Nexus 6 comes along, this will serve as a perfect successor for the time being. Yeah I'd love to have the dual front facing stereo speakers, and I'd love to have tons of custom features found in Resurrection Remix ROMs, but not at the cost of battery, cell signal, and failing safetynet check. Many of the custom ROM features can be manually added on stock firmware with root access enabled. Custom firmware just makes it easier to do so and also implements its own features, but often takes away features that are only available on stock firmware, for this reason, Nexus 6 was superior on every front in its time, everything was open source and easy to carry over to a custom firmware. Essential phone is like that, but unfortunately it doesn't play well with all carriers, despite being compatible with every carrier like the Nexus 6.
Some other cool and useful features include:
-Ability to remove navigation bar and allow fingerprint sensor gestures to navigate in the essence of Android P (swipe left for back, right for recents, short tap for home)
-fingerprint scanner also doubles up as a power button (normal tap for turning on to bypass screen lock, and normal press for screen off)
-voice assistant via long press on fingerprint scanner
-Moto voice for useful info on the fly, even with screen off
-Moto display, which unlike ambient display, doesn't waste much battery and is very precise when hovering your hand over and lifting vs keeping face down or in pocket (to keep screen from accidentally lighting up))
-dual rear facing camera with a dedicated rear facing black and white (monochrome) camera as one of the lenses
-twist gestures can double up as front/rear camera swapping
-lift to silence ringtone
-flip device onto screen to mute calls
-built in phone video calling
-power button to end call
-double chop for flashlight
-double twist for camera
-front facing torch through stock selfie camera
-night display (adjusts screen tint based on time if day)
-announce calls while driving
-and last but not least, water repellant nano coating, which is something I can't thank Motorola enough, my Nexus 6, Moto G2, Moto X2, Moto E2 all have this coating and I can confirm it works because the G2 owned by my grandma and my friend's Nexus 6 both fell into a tub and sink full of water, both devices worked without issue after removing them from water. Sure they're not water proof per say, but water proofing requires seals/gaskets and adhesives, both of which are compromised over time due to excessive heat from the internal hardware components and when screens or back glass (where applicable) break. So in essence a repellant nano coating may not be as water resistant as gaskets and adhesives, it does it's job most of the time when accidents happen and can surely withstand rain and shower splashes (just don't go plugging headphones or power cables before drying the ports and device as that may cause a short) and best of all, it doesn't get compromised because your screen broke or because of excessive heat and wear and tear.
The only cons I see are the few carrier and Motorola bloat apps most of which can be disabled (or frozen if rooted).
I enjoyed this device so much that I got one for a friend who had issues with her Nexus 6 charging port. Truly an underrated device that will hopefully get more attention from third party devs sooner than later. Personally, I will go as far as to say that this device should be looked at as a benchmark to beat. I've yet to see a device as well optimized, efficient, and as easy to manage right out of the box for such an awesome price.

Syndrome666 said:
snip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the developers for the Nash have been working on getting things fixed. You know good things are coming when LOS might be official soon™

Uzephi said:
All the developers for the Nash have been working on getting things fixed. You know good things are coming when LOS might be official soon™
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely do, this phone's technically a successor to what used to be the Moto X series before the Z line took its place, and those had awesome third party dev support. I'm sure I'll get flashing on the Z2F once I get some free time to mod this thing. Any clue if RR is in the works for this phone?

Syndrome666 said:
I definitely do, this phone's technically a successor to what used to be the Moto X series before the Z line took its place, and those had awesome third party dev support. I'm sure I'll get flashing on the Z2F once I get some free time to mod this thing. Any clue if RR is in the works for this phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No clue about RR but @npjohnson pretty much stated how everything is for LOS, unless something "goes sideways" Lineage will be official VERY shortly. @erfanoabdi also stated fingerprint nav now works with selinux enforcing so very few bugs left now. Pretty sure just a few gerrit reviews and everything before LOS ships official. (Red tape and all)

Uzephi said:
No clue about RR but @npjohnson pretty much stated how everything is for LOS, unless something "goes sideways" Lineage will be official VERY shortly. @erfanoabdi also stated fingerprint nav now works with selinux enforcing so very few bugs left now. Pretty sure just a few gerrit reviews and everything before LOS ships official. (Red tape and all)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice, sounds tempting. I'll have to give it a shot

I like my Z2F a lot! So much I bought a second one, a Sprint version. I enjoyed flashing ROM’s and stuff since the Motorola Droid days before 4G. I’ve had Safe strapped RAZR’s and then the RAZR M with the bootloader unlocked, that was fun till I bought a Moto Z Droid. Fast phone but being on Verizon, no root and no playing with ROMs.
I think the Z2F is a great phone, lots of ram so the bloat apps don’t matter much but I miss flashing ROMs. So I purchased a Sprint Z2F and as soon as the UPS guys delvers it, I’m going to activate it on Sprint, Unlock the boot loader, root it and tryout some ROM’s. And after a month or so I want to unlock it and add it to my Verizon account. Should be fun.

Still Loving the performance of this device 5 months later. I think my next device will be the z3 force.

A nicely packed set of features, still a mixed bag
Just got this device couple weeks ago, because: seemed a nicely packed set of features, I needed a new one after 3 years, and it was on sale locally for ~240€, about a third of the 2017 MSRP of 799€. So am happy with seeing and getting that bargain!
However, with the previous device being a Moto X Pure, which had just gotten tediously slower and slower over the last year or so, I find the differences in specs add to it not feeling like the real thing. Like that nightly purchase impulse this posting is severly subjective. I'll mark the so-sos with o and plusses and minusses (where it compares favourably or less than to my previous Moto experiences) in the list below.
o Moto X Pure has stereo speakers, the Z2 Force has 1 mono speaker. Watching the occasional video it certainly feels ok, but definitely "lopsided", thinner, inferior to front-facing stereo speakers. Yes, why, Captain Obvious told me, how did you know?
+ For telephone calls both call quality and, in quiet environments, the speakerphone functionality is just about right. People understand me well and I can hear everyone clearly.
+ Bluetooth connections work well and are quicker to establish. It seems as if the bluetooth range has also increased slightly.
o As of yet, the lack of a 3.5mm headphone jack hasn't actually bothered me. Since I'm on the traditionalist side I would have liked one, and sorta expect a hi-def moto mod for this some day.
- The main camera is meh when used with the vanilla Moto app. Really sorry to say that, but I am disappointed. 12MP does not mean much on paper, but the artificial sharpening puts me off. Probably I compare too much with the X Pure's 21MP and subjectively much better image quality, but in low light and less-than-ideal light conditions and when seeing strong contrasts I am unhappy with the Moto camera app. Maybe I have just gotten used to the X's quirks, but still. Disclaimer: need to take more pictures; I might set up a public album for this.
+ Using OpenCamera though I am getting different and better results. So overally I tend to use this now. Suggestions? Should I try FV-5 or Ektacam?
+ Using the Vignette camera app (as I did on all previously used devices) I can get proper results, even though I suspect it does not use the 2nd camera.
+ The snapdragon 835 is superfast, and the Z2 force with these recent price drops in Europe possibly one of the cheapest devices having it
+ the 6GB memory means I can multitask as hell and there indeed is very little reloading an app
+ I got used to having a fingerprint sensor quickly, position on front is fine
+ GPS works much better than on the old Moto, even indoors I typically get a fix both a) faster and b) at all
+ Display, having that crisp 2560x1440p resolution. Colours in saturated mode are strong, bright and I'm impressed.
+ Display colour settings can be set to "standard", which means colours come across as subdued, thinner, and erm less artificial. I use this mode.
+ Touch interactions have that very immediate feel to it, like zero lag and precise positioning. Like!
o the plastic shatterproof feature, well, it comes with a plastic layer on the screen that seems to have a blueish, almost milky tint to it, and that makes it look like plastic very much. Visually speaking it looks plastic when viewed from the side.
+ Connectivity in 4G was good.
o Using two LTE sim cards at the same time though it seems as if only the first one inserted makes use of 4G, the second one can't. Disclaimer: did only test this first evening and unsystematically.
+ Wifi is fast, holds both connections properly on 2.4 and 5 even when in offices or places with more than 40 available networks.
o Using it on commute though it seems as if, even when arrived on destination, it takes those very long extra seconds to connect to a known network. Need to fiddle with a scan interval setting I guess.
+ Built-in battery capacity is smaller, but as of now it lasts me almost two full days, and won't ever go below 20% really. The X Pure's battery is far from dead, but using it heavily means recharging it three times a day.
Overall love after these couple of weeks: an "acceptable meh" Yes, everything works, but I really needed something new and had hoped for something to give me that sensational thrill, but now feel unsatisfied. Had I bought it last year that would have been a serious disappointment.
With all this I think I am in sort of in line with many reviewers who see the oh so revolutionary mods concept as meaning well and ending up mediocre. While I intend to get that Incipio battery mod some day, that might well be the only mod I'll be getting.

mookiexl said:
Still Loving the performance of this device 5 months later. I think my next device will be the z3 force.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the z2 is the last force edition they will make.

jasperbastianrain said:
the z2 is the last force edition they will make.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw that and it made me cringe. I guess moto figured they couldn't put the price in the range of the Samsung and other more popular manufactures and compete. I still hope they release a device with the SD845 or one with OIS.

Love this phone at all. Just the backside has scratches from the first day on. Never complained, but was there out of the box. More important for me is that the screen has no scratches, even after months. No monday device, absolutly perfect, love this plastic screen. Very sad to know that we don't get any newer model of this force stuff. Battery is very good, too. That's very good at all. But additional screen protector isn't needed, at least at my model the screen isn't scratching. Maybe I have to do it with harder stuff? Don't know how the people get scratches in the screen

I'm absolutely in love with this phone. Obviously everything comes down to value, and for the original $700 or whatever asking price, there were better options. For $260 though (with the projector mod included), it's a downright steal. The phone is blazing fast and the only complaints are no headphone jack and a relatively weak camera. The very un-2017 screen ratio is also a negative, but considering the price you can find the phone for these days it's nothing to me.
ROM support is straight up bad unfortunately (huge thanks to the devs that do support it), but the phone works very well stock. I've always ran my phones with ROMs, but I don't really feel like I even need one.

Yeah I have this phone as well. I don't have any real issues beside poor signal but that's from where I live. Even with the booster T-Mobile sent me from Cel-Fi it can pickup 3 bars and 6 on the booster box I get 4G LTE and 5 bars. I can hear all my friends now. GF she has the same cell as well her's has issues like with most women when it come to cells. Data Mode drops can't do anything except remove the sim but not only that the screen is peeling off. So T-mobile is doing a warranty exchange with a brand new one. Not factory nonsense excuse for a cell. Brand new. Mine is like new!

01/2019 Real user review Great phone, super fast, great size, look outdated due to its form factor (big chin, no notch) Great battery life, super fast charging. Overall great phone, a little slow on updates

Update 01/17/2020. I've had my black, unlocked Sprint version since my last post in 2017. I've been using it flawlessly on Mint mobile for a couple years. It is positively Boba Fetted out with scratches all over the aluminum body. I am on my 3rd IQ shield screen protector. My wife has the white Verizon z2 force and we have almost all the mods.
A few months ago I noticed my battery life take a nose dive. Even after a complete wipe and clean install I struggle to make it through a day with moderate use. I've never had a phone long enough to experience battery degradation.
I went to Best Buy to check out the current crop of new phones. I handled the z3 and z4 and while nice they just seemed kinda..."meh" I didn't notice any speed difference or screen clarity between either of those phones and my 3 year old z2 and I'd be giving up shattershield. I thought about trying something new and was seriously tempted by the S10+ but a case would be a must. It is crazy
My daughter has a pixel 3 so I checked out the 4 and was a little underwhelmed. I ended up leaving with the phone I came with. I got home and started shopping online. I stumbled upon a nib unlocked gray T-Mobile Z2 for $150. Considering the Samsung cost almost 5x as much and would need to be babied I pulled the trigger on the Motorola.
So in summary I love this phone enough to buy it again despite it being old as dirt in the tech world. I plan on riding the gray one until the wheels fall off or until some new hotness comes out that I see and just have to have.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Owner of one of the first Z2 Force XT1789-06 dual sim with Nougat, since of reduced battery life and screen a bit "impressed" I decided to buy a new phone.
I decided for a "brand new" Xt1789-06 dual sim that I set up with Pie. Need I to add something?

enetec said:
Owner of one of the first Z2 Force XT1789-06 dual sim with Nougat, since of reduced battery life and screen a bit "impressed" I decided to buy a new phone.
I decided for a "brand new" Xt1789-06 dual sim that I set up with Pie. Need I to add something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, there is no better phone on the market with unbreakable screen. I would buy it again, too. Costs 399€ (very much, but high end for many years) at the moment. More than 2018 here in europe.
Set Up should be Lineage OS 16 and then it's perfect.

First impressions

Picked up a dual-SIM, 6 GB RAM HTC U11 two and a half weeks ago for a little more than $700, thought I'd write up my impressions so far. I have not procured a SIM card for it yet, so I've just been using it as a mobile computer, which isn't unusual as I mostly don't take phone calls or texts anyway. I use my mobile devices for computing, ie writing software and running it on them, and for reading and watching videos, as I haven't owned a Wintel device in years. That's actually what settled me on this device: its octa-core CPU, 6 GBs of RAM, and 128 GBs of storage. While I currently use an 8.4" Android tablet with a bluetooth keyboard for software development (writing this post on it now), I plan to switch to the U11 with a laptop shell like the Sentio or Mirabook, as it's more convenient than unfolding a tablet stand and keyboard anywhere I move and smartphones come with more powerful hardware than any non-Windows tablet these days.
I planned on getting the LG G6, as it's a pretty good deal at a bit more than $500 now, but I was worried about the CPU being a bit dated and slower. I had been using a Samsung GS5 for the last year, and all my mobile devices were getting out of date, as they were all released around 2014, even though I bought the GS5 new for $250 in late 2016. I went to a store to see the black G6 in person and it is gorgeous, but the older quad-core chip had me doubting. To settle it, I built a C++ codebase in the Termux app on some devices a family member had picked up last year: a tablet with the quad-core Snapdragon 820, very similar to the 821 in the G6, and the Samsung GS8, an octa-core Exynos that's considered to be equivalent to the 835 in the U11. The software compiled in parallel more than twice as fast in the S8, 2.5 minutes versus 6, so that settled me on the U11. No local shops carry HTC nowadays AFAIK, so I ordered the Sapphire Blue from an online vendor and had it within 3 days.
The U11 is also a gorgeous device, the photos do not do it justice, just like the G6. I agree with everyone that the S8 is the most visually stunning of last year's crop, but I hate how the curved edges obscure text on the sides, as I read a lot. Once you account for usability, the G6 is probably the best-looking, because as great as the blingy back on the U11 looks, it's too flashy for me. In photos, it just looked gaudy, which is why I never thought the U11 looked that great when released, but it does make a better impression in person. I never minded the older 16:9 display ratio, though it is weird how the bottom bezel is significantly larger. The U11+ is now available here, wasn't when I got the U11, but it costs $200 more so I wouldn't have got it anyway. I also love capacitive buttons, missed them from my HTC One X+ from five years ago, and hate the physical home button I had to keep pushing on my GS5.
So what has it been like moving from 2014-vintage devices to 2017? These things are slippery! Every surface of the U11 is ultra-slippery, I guess nobody uses these mobiles without cases anymore, like I always have. Even the metal sides are slippery, so that it slowly slips out of my hand when reading. My GS5 has ridged sides to account for this, works great. I tried the clear case included with the U11 for a couple days, worked well though made it bulkier. The other big change is just how fast these phones are now: web pages on the same network, through the wifi hotspot from my GS5 or tablet, load significantly faster. That same C++ codebase I benchmarked above builds in 1.75 minutes, significantly faster than even the GS8.
The software looks great and is very snappy, always liked HTC's touch more than the other skins I've used. I tried out the Taskbar app on the Nougat build that came with the U11, and multi-window mode worked fine, important as I'd like to use that mode with that laptop shell. However, once I updated to Oreo, it stopped working, as google strangely makes you explicitly enable it with adb now. I'm fine with doing that, as I'm a developer and can always figure it out, but I don't like how they made that much more difficult for normal users to access.
While I had tried the built-in split-screen mode on others' Nougat devices briefly and extensively use Samsung's older split-screen mode, this was the first time I'm spending much time with the built-in one and it works great. Love how videos keep playing while I'm picking the second app, only drawback is that the split-screen width isn't configurable like Samsung's. Weird how they always change Android's battery stats reporting with every update, though I like that Screen-On-Time (SOT) is prominently reported up top now.
Speaking of which, I get great battery life, between 8-11 hours of SOT, usually around 10. Big change from my GS5, which started off with 2-4 hours and went down or my Samsung tablet that has dropped to 4 hours from 6 initially. The massive display is always the biggest drain on the U11, around half or more, and the power usage probably varies based on the automatic brightness and whether I'm outside more. This is while reading or watching videos, as I'm not developing any software on it yet (need to pick up one of those laptop shells when they're shipping). The battery drains 1% every 3-4 hours with the phone idling, though it may get slightly worse as I have the cellular radio turned off in Airplane mode now.
The dual speakers sound great and very loud, will be watching much more video on this than on my GS5 as a result, with its single, quieter back-firing speaker. I don't use headphones much, but the included USB-C set sounded very good. The phone only gets hot when charging, takes a couple hours to top up. The camera is fantastic so far, love the shots its taking. Low light isn't as good, but still better than I've ever had before. It's a bit heavy and big at 169 grams, particularly compared to the 145 g GS5, but I've finally gotten used to the bigger mobiles now.
The display is wonderful, always loved the Super LCD2 on my old One X+, this Super LDC5 compares well to even the best OLEDs. I wish they'd left a little bezel on the sides, as I've had back button presses not register more than a dozen times already, because I had a finger slightly touching the display on the side while holding the phone. Move that finger off the display, and the back button works again. I worry about dropping this phone, as my GS5 is pretty banged up with most of the metal paint on the edges flaked off, so I may slap on the included case sometimes.
All in all, a great device, and really seems to fulfill the promise of your mobile becoming your computer too. Looking forward to hooking up to a laptop shell and really putting the U11 through its paces that way. :victory:

Overall love

Yes, yes, it's possible to love a phone. Heck, you sleep next to it, don't you? Rate this thread to indicate your love for the LG G7 One, all things considered. A higher rating indicates that the LG G7 One is an incredible phone that you enjoy tremendously. You love it.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

i'm coming from the G4, which i have a lot of negative things to say about due to LG basically abandoning it not too long after launch - i said i wouldn't buy LG again but the super bright screen and android one lured me back in (plus i needed to know all the LTE bands would be supported here in canada).
overall i'm enjoying the device, the screen is gorgeous and performs very nicely in bright light. the operating system is pretty darn zippy and responsive, the CPU doesn't run too hot and although i would prefer more RAM it's performing pretty well all told. no real issues so far other than the abysmal rollout on "monthly" security updates (they skipped february and took until the 21st for march's). the default camera app is okay i spose, although i installed the gcam apk from the relevant thread here and have been pretty happy with it other than what i perceive as a bit of lag in taking images. the device boots up quickly, the fingerprint scanner is accurate and fairly fast, but i have to say that the speaker itself does not sound as "full" as my G4 in everyday use although it definitely goes louder - it sounds a bit shrill in the hand, but my bluetooth headphones sound just dandy. haven't actually tried wired cans, but bluetooth in general is quick to connect and my amazfit bip watch is much happier than with my previous phone. range is excellent and i've had no disconnect issues as of yet.
personally i can't stand the google assistant key, so i ended up buying "button remap" by the fabulous @flar2 and made it dance to my satisfaction, which had the side benefit of uncoupling the volume key controls so i can manage just the ringtone/notifications separate from media (pie has some weird ideas, imo). LTE reception is excellent, all the bands worked out of box and my Fido sim had no issues with automagically choosing the correct APN, and overall data throughput is good, call quality is good. handfeel is pretty decent, although without a case it's slippery as all out and i definitely wouldn't try to operate it that way. the design is not particularly inspired, and availability/price is atrocious and typical of LG not seeming to care about their mobile division. battery life isn't the best, i'm not sure why they went with a 3000mAH sized cell, but the fast charge works excellent - although the included usb c cable does NOT support the full 18w (my inline meter says it peaks at 12w, and i had to get a different cable to get it to charge at rated speed/voltage).
personally, i find the notch to be rubbish (nacho notch improved things visually) and the notification led is small, not bright, and seemingly not very adjustable. obviously the speed of security updates is garbage, as is the lack of an actual usb driver and the likely never to be unlocked bootloader is typical LG. the screen has a slight curve on the sides, which meant that the tempered glass screen protector i picked up with the phone doesn't cover the entire screen side to side which is silly as there was no need to curve the screen other than trying to look cool/riding samsung's tip ;b
overall the phone feels like kind of an afterthought by LG, and i don't get the impression that they're going to support this device very much. i paid $539 CAD for it on amazon and definitely wouldn't want to pay more for it, but android one and the screen are definite saving graces. perhaps not enough to justify it versus other devices on the market, but it is what it is. /rant

I concur with most of what you said. I got the phone for $0 with a two-year plan on Bell. They dropped the price quickly. The price you paid for the phone outright seems good.
I would add that sometimes the scrolling is jumpy and stutters, maybe depending on what site you are on. Sometimes it is as smooth as butter. Maybe 4GB is not enough. Also, despite having the option for and SD card, I think this phone should have shipped with 64GB.
The chassis is slippery as hell, bought a TPU case off Amazon and it makes a huge difference.
Because LG promised two years of software updates, we should be getting TWO major updates AFTER Pie, to Android R, but I'm not holding my breath. If it stops at Q, and LG tries to tell us it's because we had Oreo out of the box, the Android One program will lose a lot of credibility. Watch it happen though. I don't think LG will bother supporting a two-year old phone with the latest Android version.