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Hi guys, I would like to share some photos I took with my HTC One from the summit of Mount Elbrus.
Just a note tho, i was wearing ski goggles and the sun was extreme bright. So i couldn't really see the screen. It was mostly 'point and shoot' without the focusing part.
It was roughly -20 degrees at the summit, I was genuinely surprised when my beloved One was still functioning (my brother's iPhone died at the summit).
I did experience some difficulties taking some pictures while near the peak, I don't know if its from the cold (the battery was around 3 degrees Celsius) or everything was too white for the autofocus to work properly. sometimes it took roughly 10 seconds (from pressing the shutter to picture being saved) for the picture to be taken.
I would love to hear your guys opinion regarding the photos!
Another thing, The battery on the One is EXTREMELY resilient, I was able to run the GPS chip to do Geo-logging for over 12 hours and the battery was only down the 30% even in the extreme temperature!
General information about Mount Elbrus:
Highest mountain in the continental Europe, standing at 5642m above sea level.
nice!!
Wow. Nice pictures from a nice adventure. Thank you.
Skickat från min HTC One via Tapatalk 2
That's incredible! Thanks for sharing, and congrats on your climb!
Those look like some great pics to me..
Thanks for sharing them and the story behind it..
Very nice indeed the camera on this phone despite what some so call experts say is one of the best on a smartphone
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
These are really great pictures.
They remind me that the One has very coarse granulation of image adjustments. ie, trying to increase the exposure of a scene by the minimum increment will *drastically* increase the exposure.
In scenes like the ones in these pictures where there is a lot of snow, you generally want the snow to be a little whiter, less gray, so that the distant sky and forest will have a normal exposure. If the One allowed you to increase exposure *a little bit* , you could probably get the perfect balance of detail and realism. But I imagine if you set the camera to the smallest possible increase, ie " + 1 " , it would completely blow out all the lighter areas of the picture.
..at least with the initial versions of the camera software (ie system software 1.2x). They may improve this later I realize.
Of course at 5000+ meters you probably don't want to be playing around with the "image adjustments" menu anyway. So the default settings produced perfectly acceptable shots considering the conditions.
Gorgeous pictures. Congrats as well, amazing milestone.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
Someone should spread this story. A feel good story for the One.
-Sent from Marino's One-
Great story and great pics mate :thumbup:
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Amazing pictures man.....great adventure...
The only thing is... its a pitty that there is so much noise in the bluesky in the pictures..
I hope htc will fix this...other wise great
Here's some more photo near the summit.
I don't understand why there is so much noise...
john291 said:
Amazing pictures man.....great adventure...
The only thing is... its a pitty that there is so much noise in the bluesky in the pictures..
I hope htc will fix this...other wise great
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I was about to say, am I the only one that doesn't agree that theses are great pictures? It seems many judge pictures by the scenery but not the quality of the image.
Sure the subject matter and location are stunning, but the quality of the image is not really that good. My old sgs2 would have taken a better picture with more clarity and less noise. That phone is over two years old!
If I took a grainy, noisy picture of Kim karsashian in bed with Cheryl Cole people,would still be saying wow! Great image! What a great camera! The One sure has a good sensor!
No offence, I have the One, like the one, keeping the one, but I sure hope some image improvements are on the way.
I think it's certainly possible to find fault with the images.
But we have lots of other threads for stuff like that.
I'm willing to just accept this thread at face value: a guy took this phone to the top of a very high mountain and the phone's camera performed ably in this unusual environment. Nothing more nothing less.
I commend him for the report (as well as the journey itself!).
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
NxNW said:
I think it's certainly possible to find fault with the images.
But we have lots of other threads for stuff like that.
I'm willing to just accept this thread at face value: a guy took this phone to the top of a very high mountain and the phone's camera performed ably in this unusual environment. Nothing more nothing less.
I commend him for the report (as well as the journey itself!).
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.... I've taken a number on top of mountains myself and whilst the One shoots ably, the fact is the photos once you actually zoom in lack detail. The grave stone in first pictures for example lacks detail, the text can not be read. Everything beyond normal focal range is overly soft and lacking details and suffer noise and artefacts. Or the fact in one of the photos of your climbing partners, if you zoom in you can't even make out details on their clothing or faces sadly.
As much as I love my One, the reality is for landscapes where much of clarity is in distant objects the 4mp on the one just isn't enough to capture the fine details.
Yes they look great on Facebook, twitter and posted on forums when viewed quickly, but when you load up the full image and actually examine it the faults are all to easy find.
In the scenario the OP took the picture, blue clear day - ultrapixel actually provided NO benefit as there was always enough light for the image to capture, but the lack of megapixels does hurt because with greater MP we would have been able to see so much more clarity in the photo, a clarity that would have done so much more justice to the breathtaking view on the summit than sadly the camera does capture.
Congrats OP on your climb / achievement - its great. But I think some folks are mixing up your 'great' achievement with 'great' photo. Sadly the photos are just fine.
g2525 said:
Hi guys, I would like to share some photos I took with my HTC One from the summit of Mount Elbrus.
Just a note tho, i was wearing ski goggles and the sun was extreme bright. So i couldn't really see the screen. It was mostly 'point and shoot' without the focusing part.
It was roughly -20 degrees at the summit, I was genuinely surprised when my beloved One was still functioning (my brother's iPhone died at the summit).
I did experience some difficulties taking some pictures while near the peak, I don't know if its from the cold (the battery was around 3 degrees Celsius) or everything was too white for the autofocus to work properly. sometimes it took roughly 10 seconds (from pressing the shutter to picture being saved) for the picture to be taken.
I would love to hear your guys opinion regarding the photos!
Another thing, The battery on the One is EXTREMELY resilient, I was able to run the GPS chip to do Geo-logging for over 12 hours and the battery was only down the 30% even in the extreme temperature!
General information about Mount Elbrus:
Highest mountain in the continental Europe, standing at 5642m above sea level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome pics buddy! Beautiful view! Congrats on the climb
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
nookcoloruser said:
Exactly.... I've taken a number on top of mountains myself and whilst the One shoots ably, the fact is the photos once you actually zoom in lack detail. The grave stone in first pictures for example lacks detail, the text can not be read. Everything beyond normal focal range is overly soft and lacking details and suffer noise and artefacts. Or the fact in one of the photos of your climbing partners, if you zoom in you can't even make out details on their clothing or faces sadly.
As much as I love my One, the reality is for landscapes where much of clarity is in distant objects the 4mp on the one just isn't enough to capture the fine details.
Yes they look great on Facebook, twitter and posted on forums when viewed quickly, but when you load up the full image and actually examine it the faults are all to easy find.
In the scenario the OP took the picture, blue clear day - ultrapixel actually provided NO benefit as there was always enough light for the image to capture, but the lack of megapixels does hurt because with greater MP we would have been able to see so much more clarity in the photo, a clarity that would have done so much more justice to the breathtaking view on the summit than sadly the camera does capture.
Congrats OP on your climb / achievement - its great. But I think some folks are mixing up your 'great' achievement with 'great' photo. Sadly the photos are just fine.
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Click to collapse
yes it's a basic fact the ultrapixel camera will never be useful if zoomed, for that get another device
otherwise its one of the best all rounder phone cameras, especially in low light
the only thing weird in these photos, considering how much sun is that the images are little under exposed, guess the phone was trying to counter the extreme light in auto mode
as for the battery looks like heat is a good contributor to drain in ordinary use
hamdir said:
the only thing weird in these photos, considering how much sun is that the images are little under exposed, guess the phone was trying to counter the extreme light in auto mode
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Click to collapse
Was actually thinking the same thing. Setting must have been changed in camera for contrast / exposure because I've shot in similar circumstances and the HTC One will tend to over expose. It could also explain 'additional' noise in the image if settings like that have been changed in image adjustments.
I think HDR would have likely done a better job at balancing it out (which is what I tend to do myself) rather than leaving it on standard setting albeit with image settings adjusted....
Absolutely amazing! First of all congratulations on your milestone...a fantastic achievement!
Secondly...I would like to propose your post + pics for HTC One's top-achievement...ever (so far). Ridiculous really for a mobile phone to function at all at nearly 6 km height...plus taking some real quailty pics to boot :highfive:
mwatson said:
I was about to say, am I the only one that doesn't agree that theses are great pictures? It seems many judge pictures by the scenery but not the quality of the image.
Sure the subject matter and location are stunning, but the quality of the image is not really that good. My old sgs2 would have taken a better picture with more clarity and less noise. That phone is over two years old!
If I took a grainy, noisy picture of Kim karsashian in bed with Cheryl Cole people,would still be saying wow! Great image! What a great camera! The One sure has a good sensor!
No offence, I have the One, like the one, keeping the one, but I sure hope some image improvements are on the way.
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Would the SGS2 have taken better pictures in that extreme environment though?
Yes they are a bit noisy, yes the scenery is great, there is a tradeoff there but the real issue is the environment.
Hi all,
TL;DR - Pretty pictures taken with the HTC One here: Click
I've been very interested in the HTC One's camera ever since it was announced, as I believe that the philosophy behind the trade-offs made in its design are a step forward for the mobile phone camera industry.
I've recently returned from a trip to Japan and as an experiment, used the HTC One as my only camera (clearly not because my P&S was stolen two years ago!). I have taken nearly 8,000 shots over the 14 days I was in Japan and after nearly a hundred (if not more) hours spent in post-processing, I think I have a decent set of pictures.
I have annotated some of the pictures in a travel-journalistic manner. If you are a experienced traveller, I am probably not saying anything you do not already know. If you have never been to Japan, I hope they provide you with some insights.
A few observations I've made in the process of shooting said pictures:
The wide angle lens on the HTC One is wonderfully versatile, especially for landscape and architecture shots. Framing the shot is effortless and as it turns out, of utmost importance.
The most controversial aspect of the One's camera, the 4MP resolution does come with a very real drawback. You have little room in post-production to recover a badly framed shot. Cropping in post-production is often an unhappy compromise as you are left with less room to compensate for noise and blur. I would hazard to say that shooting with only the One for an extended period of time may be a great way to improve your composition skills.
The HTC One's camera software and auto-focus is fast and responsive, you can compose, re-focus/expose and shoot in a blink of an eye, which is something I took advantage of to take the multiple exposures required for the HDR pictures.
While no aspect of the HTC One's camera is exceptional, the package of a very fast f2.0 lens, optical image stabilization and above average sensor sensitivity means that vis-a-vis other mobile phone cameras, you will nail shot after shot in daylight and have a decent chance of grabbing something usable in low-light.
Will I do something like this again? Unlikely. The next time I can afford to travel, I will almost certainly be packing a decent camera. Do I regret the experience? Definitely not. Shooting with a camera like the One forces you to learn to frame your shots well. I like to think that technically, I am a decent photographer, but as far as composing a picture well, I have a long way to go.
Links to the various albums below. Sorry if you dislike Google+, but its easy to upload and annotate and it has a really clean interface. The albums are all public, so there is technically no need to sign in, but Google+ prompts you to login if you happen to be signed into another Google service. If you really want to avoid signing in, simply open the links in a incognito window.
If you are impatient, Kyoto and the Highlight albums are probably the best.
Comments, feedback and questions welcome. Wasn't sure if I should have created a new thread, if not, please merge into the photograph thread, thanks moderators.
Highlights
Tokyo (東京)
Odaiba (お台場)
Sensoji Shrine (浅草寺)
Meiji Shrine (明治神宮)
Tsukiji Fish Market (築地市場)
Hama-Rikyu Gardens (浜離宮恩賜庭園)
Osaka (大阪)
Osaka Aquarium Kaiyukan (海遊館)
Nara (奈良市)
Himeji (姫路市)
Kyoto (京都)
Kanazawa (金沢)
Shibuya Scramble Crossing (Youtube Video)
---
Photomatix Presets
edit: converted text to links
edit2: added link to timelapse of Shibuya scramble crossing
edit3: link to the photomatix presets I've used
Wow! Those are some very nice photos! Just goes to show how much power is behind our phone. It makes me want to go out and use my camera now.
Excellent shots! You clearly have a lot of talent! And that is some good post-processing too.
It would be great to know if you touched up the HDRs in post-production in anyway or are they mostly untouched?
ankanb said:
Excellent shots! You clearly have a lot of talent! And that is some good post-processing too.
It would be great to know if you touched up the HDRs in post-production in anyway or are they mostly untouched?
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Click to collapse
Most of the HDR shots are not in-camera HDR shots, they are multiple pictures of the same shot combined in post.
Every picture has been touched up in post. The natural looking ones are probably just simple lighting/contrast adjustments, the surreal looking ones took more effort.
Love Japan. Absolutely love Kyoto. You took some really good shots
One thing I am a bit disappointed with is the amount of noise the camera has. (still love it hough)
Some of your shots (especially the HDR) are way too noisy for my liking, but that's a matter of taste or sometimes plain nitpicking.
Which settings did you mainly use?
Did you leave the phone in charge of most of the settings or did you do it manually?
I agree, you took some beautiful shots!
Makes me want to travel. Lol.
MartinS13X said:
Love Japan. Absolutely love Kyoto. You took some really good shots
One thing I am a bit disappointed with is the amount of noise the camera has. (still love it hough)
Some of your shots (especially the HDR) are way too noisy for my liking, but that's a matter of taste or sometimes plain nitpicking.
Which settings did you mainly use?
Did you leave the phone in charge of most of the settings or did you do it manually?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect to the noise, agreed. In most cases, with some work, as its only really bad for the uniform areas of the picture, the noise is entirely cleanable in post. But in most cases, I've chosen not to for effect. And the HDR process does tend to accentuate the noise and would typically not be visible if I had processed it for a natural look.
Still, it doesn't surprise me that much. I picked up a Fujifilm f100fd, a P&S as my last camera. It was supposed to be really good with low-light photography due to its excellent noise control. While clearly better then the HTC One, I found myself running into the same problems when post-processing the f100fd's shots vis the HTC One's shots. I think if you really want clean, low light shot, a DSLR/interchangeable lens camera with a fast prime lens is the only way to go, that or a tripod, depending on the picture you want.
Sharpness at -2 for virtually all the shots. Occasionally exposure at -1 is very useful, when you are sure that you can capture enough detail in a darker picture. You're essentially telling the camera, hey, I'm OK with a dark picture, take the next shot as fast as a shutter speed as you can. For that reason, almost all the aquarium shots are with exposure -1, as you don't really care about the walls of aquarium being properly exposed, you just want the fish exposed.
For the multiple shots needed for the HDR pictures, tapping at a bright spot, taking a picture, then quickly tapping at a dark spot, then taking another picture... The problem is that sometimes having the camera focus at a bright/dark spot means you screw up focus entirely.
The HTC One's backlight mode is incredibly useful when you want to take portrait shots with something bright in the background. I've used the landscape and HDR modes a few times, but I'm still not entirely sure what landscape mode gets me.
So... Long story short, normal mode, with sharpness at -2, with lots of tapping on the screen.
edit: oh, also, I manually flashed to 4.2.2, which meant that I had access to AF/AE lock. That came useful for the epic panorama of Himeji castle's surroundings.
Exposure -1 is indeed good in some cases. I've used that too.
I also want to try setting the ISO manually in dark photos as I believe there is room for lower ISO in some cases and the camera just increases it a lot.
I'm also not a fan of noisy, instagram-y photos like some of yours but you have some very nice shots.
I saw a link with a timelapse video. What's the deal with that? Is it yours?
Ooops, error.
Corduroy-21 said:
Exposure -1 is indeed good in some cases. I've used that too.
I also want to try setting the ISO manually in dark photos as I believe there is room for lower ISO in some cases and the camera just increases it a lot.
I'm also not a fan of noisy, instagram-y photos like some of yours but you have some very nice shots.
I saw a link with a timelapse video. What's the deal with that? Is it yours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The timelapse video is mine yes. If it helps, the noise is inherent in the picture, and not added for "authenticity"
edit: I think the One generally makes good decisions when it comes to ISO, it priorities shutter speed over anything else, which I think, given the fact that in any low-light shot, you are going to get unhappy amounts of noise, is a good choice. A blurred shot is usually totally unusable.
shasderias said:
The timelapse video is mine yes.
Click to expand...
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How did you do it?
Did you use the One?
Corduroy-21 said:
How did you do it?
Did you use the One?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. Sideloaded the stock android camera, used the timelapse function. Waited...
The pictures you have posted are just amazing.
Although I have a HTC One but I don't take much pictures. You have motivated me to take more pictures from this phone now.
The filters you have used in this are given ones or some other application for that?
Wow. I just went through every album. Those all turned out amazing.
Great pics! :good:
rahulwadhwani said:
The pictures you have posted are just amazing.
Although I have a HTC One but I don't take much pictures. You have motivated me to take more pictures from this phone now.
The filters you have used in this are given ones or some other application for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No filters used, photos are all taken normally and edited in post. Photoshop for all editing, Photomatix for most of the HDR pictures.
shasderias said:
Yup. Sideloaded the stock android camera, used the timelapse function. Waited...
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Click to collapse
which timelapse function did you use? How come my phone doesnt have it?
aceonetwothree said:
which timelapse function did you use? How come my phone doesnt have it?
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Click to collapse
I didn't use the HTC One's camera app, I sideloaded the camera app from stock android (the one with photosphere) to do the timelapse.
Incidentally, the photospheres for some reason, turned out super low-res.
How do you manage to take photos with the phone using 3 exposure values, going into the menu and changing the value after each photo while keeping the phone perfectly still?
Love these! The Shibuya Scramble pictures gave me to flashbacks to The World Ends With You.
http://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_6s_galaxy_s6_xperia_z5-review-1329p2.php
Xperia Z5 took top honors, and the ranking look more like the Dxomark ranking
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
schecter7 said:
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! After looking at your pics, I also went back to Tim's 20 MP vs. 8 MP comparison pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22126137922/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21515893794/in/photostream/
If you look at the EXIF info, they both used the same shutter speed, but the 8 MP used a higher ISO. Better exposure and less noise, so 8 MP mode is better for low light, as Tim has shown. Tim also waited for the tripod symbol for his 20 MP night shots.
So my question is this: Does the tripod symbol show up for non-night scenes? Like in moderate to bright light? It seems to me the Z5 has two AF modes - fast vs. slow AF. Fast AF is super fast, but only good for capturing a specific subject (and tends to blur the background). Slow AF does full scene analysis and takes longer. It would explain why people are getting such wildly varying results with the Z5.
Anyone wanna test and see? Please?
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
schecter7 said:
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
joe_dude said:
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
schecter7 said:
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
joe_dude said:
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
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Click to collapse
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
schecter7 said:
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
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Yeah, I think the ZU was the best phone of all time (when it came out). On light use, I've gotten 4 to 5 days out of it on a single charge. And Kitkat 4.4 and Lollipop 5.1.1 have been rock solid. If there were a Z5 Ultra (or Z6 Ultra), I'd get it in a heartbeat.
Anyway, I should be able to do some testing with the Z5 and a G4 shortly (yea!), but I don't have a lot of free time, so I'm gonna try to grab a bunch of shots and analyze them later. Oh well, RL comes first.
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
chesterr said:
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
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Click to collapse
Yeah, a fully unlocked camera would be really cool. Well, for us geeks anyway. I think Sony's simplified manual modes are still not simple enough for the average consumer. But that's a problem with the average consumer, not the phone. xD
As for low light performance, let's see how it does in comparisons using the default 8 MP SA. Even if the tests don't adjust for its 24mm lens, I think it'll do a lot better than in 23 MP mode.
If things go well I might have my Z5 next week.
And do some proper testing with Z5 and Z2 which I know really well since I have it for over 1,5 years.
I should do a proper comparison. All the questions will be answered.
joe_dude said:
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
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Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
TheEndHK said:
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
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There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
EQ2000 said:
There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
TheEndHK said:
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
In any case, the Z5's flash is rated better by DXOMark than the S6. So it was obvious that the GSMArena's flowers flash test had some kind of problem. I mean just look at the pic - the Z5's pic was mostly of the night sky, while the S6 and 6S were mainly on the flowers. Because they didn't consider the FOV and framed the shot incorrectly, the Z5 detected it as a night scenery pic with flash fill, not a flash pic of flowers. There are examples from other reviews that show the Z5's flash working well and as expected.
Reviewers are expected to understand and be knowledgeable about the product they are reviewing. Would you ever buy a car magazine where the reviewers don't know what kind of engine is in the car, or how much gas it uses? Reviews that give false, misleading and/or incomplete information are bad for everyone.
---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------
EQ2000 said:
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
joe_dude said:
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
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Click to collapse
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to buy Z5c today(not sure, but most probably, if I could find a cheaper one for sales) and let me see how well the camera. Actually, I think it is worthless to discuss the camera before any big updates.
EQ2000 said:
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
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Click to collapse
No, I'm still playing with SA. As much as I want to fiddle with the camera, I'm gonna have to cut the experimenting short to get back to other RL things. Sigh. But thanks for the suggestion... I'll keep in mind!
FYI, I did more analysis on the IFA photo you had posted. Believe it or not, I think the Z5 was correct with the exposure. Look closely at the pics - in the other two pics, the model was over-exposed. In the Z5 pic, she had a nicely balanced colour and brightness. The other phones did not do face detection, so measured the exposure based on the entire frame, and not on the model. Since the pic was primarily of the model, the Z5 took the picture as it had been intended.
This is part of the problem - we assume if the Z5's pic looks different, it is "incorrect". I'm starting to understand SA tries to do a lot, although sometimes it will guess incorrectly. But I think Sony needs to tweak SA to work better/more consistently.
Background
While the Z5 has demonstrated that it can take good daytime photos and excellent video (thanks to its closed-loop actuator), low-light performance has been a concern, due to a lack of OIS and its smaller pixels.
I had the opportunity to borrow an LG G4 to test low-light conditions with the Z5. Testing took a while, as I needed to understand the different scene selections of the Z5's Superior Auto mode. I chose two classic, well-known, posters for the basis of the analysis: Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back and Breakfast at Tiffany's. The posters feature both artwork and text, which should provide a good mix of characteristics for comparison. Also, the posters can easily be found online, so no reference photos were necessary.
Test conditions
The SW:ESB poster was lit from a single, overhead, incandecent light bulb (60 watt), which was roughly 10 ft/3 m away. The Breakfast at Tiffany's poster had no nearby light source - the light comes from the next room over 20+ ft/ 7+ m away.
All photos were taken in automatic mode for both phones. The Z5 was set to 8 MP in 16:9 ratio. I had tried set up the photos to look as similar as possible.
Camera setup
The SW:ESB night pics were taken while sitting down. The Z5 photos are as follows:
a) Night mode icon (i.e. moon icon)
b) Night mode icon + tripod icon
c) Night mode icon + tripod icon, phone holder stabilized (not hand-held)
The Breakfast at Tiffany's pics were taken while standing up, with arms in an elevated position. This is was due to the fact that the poster was mounted higher on the wall. It should represent the Z5's worse case scenario, as there was no way to stay completely steady due to the awkward posture and poor lighting.
Note: I had to re-take the Breakfast at Tiffany's photo, as I discovered that the initial photo had moved the focus to the top of the poster, due to face detection. I manually adjusted the focus rather than cut off Audrey's elegant face. When face detection icon was not on screen, the low-light icon (i.e. candle icon) would come on.
Link to photos (7-zipped):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Put-ePeAktZXE4YkxpNmhmWUk
The photos have not been edited in any way, other than to rename the files. I will leave the photos up for a couple of weeks. If you are reading this post after November 2015, and would like a link to the pics, please send me a PM.
Conclusion
OIS definitely helped with the low-light pics. The difference in detail was due to blurring, not MPs as far I could tell. In better lighting conditions or when stabilized, the Z5 and G4 had the same level of detail. The G4 pics became more and more "washed out" as the light level dropped, which was probably due to its smaller sensor.
Kids vs. stills: For quick snaps of people in moderate-to-low lighting, the Z5 was better, due to face detection. OIS couldn't do much to help. G4 had a lot more blurred photos, but when it wasn't blurred, the quality was good.
So why choose the Z5 (without OIS)? For the video recording. Once you've tried taking FHD videos with the Z5, you'll probably never go back to using OIS. Try it in the store... take a walk, jump up and down, shake it all around. It's pretty dang amazing.
Anyway, I hope the pics and the comparison were helpful.
Cheers!
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
schecter7 said:
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
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Gah... I don't have the G4 to test with anymore. I didn't say it was "dinner by candle light". But I'll change the title a bit.
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
bloodfire1004 said:
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
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Click to collapse
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
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Click to collapse
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
schecter7 said:
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
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Click to collapse
I see. Thanks!
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
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Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
EQ2000 said:
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me Sir. Do you actually know what are you speaking? You always blame S6 got strong noise reduction but when you found noises there you also said that S6 is too bad to has noise.
Sony is all good in your mind even there are indeed more flat area in photo but you'll just think that some noises to simulate fine grain so it's all good.....
To be honest, I've also played a lots of video stuffs, I was a video lover. The film grain isn't real using in this way. In the old days video encoding technologies were not yet mature, the encoder did remove too much things from the source and people was trying to apply some noises in flat area to fraud human eye but this method should not use again in recent year. Some others were trying to simulate old Film noises for special purpose though.
The environment is total stable and it won't change the result after 15 - 20mins like day time so it is meaningless to mention about this, I'm not only focusing to take photo because my friends whatsapp me. Furthermore, the Z5c is freaking hard to get good result in such low light condition, some scenes were actually been taken 4 to 5 times to try to get one with good result. S6 was almost all done in one shot.
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
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While an instructive and very interesting comparison, we do loose a bit of something by dealing with differing Fields of View. Some of the loss of detailing that you might otherwise put down to the sensor or software is actually far more about the focus of the lens on the sensor. To see what the detail reproduction is more accurately, we could do with seeing the two framed identically (IE, taking half a step nearer with the Z5 when taking the shot to correct for the different lens).
While I hate to put you to more trouble, could you have a go at this at all? Thanks
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
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S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
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Ah, Hong Kong... been there several times. Sorry, but I hate to say it, the video quality on the S6 was not very good. Maybe when standing still it's good, but as soon as you started panning, the video was jittery. In FHD, the Z5 was completely smooth. In 4K, both videos were jittery.
If you're going to critical of the Z5, you should be at least as critical about the S6's poor video performance. You live in HK... a fast paced city. Hold it up and walk around with the crowd, take it on the bus, go up and down the subways stairs. Don't use the Z5 and take video like it's an S6 - judge it on its own merit. If you've ever tried to keep up with a child and record video, you'd know what I mean!
Thanks for the vids and photos... I'll check out the photos later.
TheEndHK said:
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
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Okay, I've gone through the pics, comparing both sets of pics side-by-side. First thing I noted was that a few of the Z5 pics were actually less blurry than the S6. LOL! I think I could have done better with the G4.
At 100% size, the Z5 and S6 had nearly the same level of detail across the pics, except for a few pics where either the S6 or Z5 was clearly blurred. The Z5 had smaller text because of the FOV, but it wasn't any harder to read.
I thought the S6 would be the clear winner with OIS, but the pics look very close in quality. Z5 should have slightly better colours, but I can't tell without neutral reference pics. I think you should have spent more time stabilizing the S6. From your pics and video, I'd choose the Z5, since the only thing that's clearly better from the two sets was the Z5's FHD video. xD
Now that I've had the Z5 for a couple of weeks, here are my thoughts:
Here on XDA, we tend to get overly technical (no, really?), so I've been thinking about how a "normal" person would decide to get and use the Z5. I bought the Z5 based on early impressions of its video performance and technical details of the new camera system (dat closed-loop actuator). After taking some family vids running around the house, I'd say it works as advertised.
But it was my SO's reaction (a non-geek) that was more telling. She was curious how the videos would turn out, as I barely paid attention to the phone while it was taking videos. She was impressed and commented that it was so smooth that it looked "professional". As any family man knows, having the "other half" onboard with a tech purchase means life is good! Heh!
The photo quality? Frankly, she didn't notice much difference between the Z5, G4 or even my old Z Ultra. The G4's OIS didn't help much for impromptu pics of people. I had plenty of blurred indoor shots of moving faces with each phone. The Z5 did try harder with face detection and scene selection to get good pics, while the G4 was basically a straight dummy point-and-shoot. The G4's strength is in its manual mode, and in quick snap situations, there was no time to play with the settings. Ironically, I caught some of the best moments - not talking about colour or details - from the Z Ultra, as it was the camera I was most familiar with. LOL!
The Z5 is now my go-to camera for videos. I think anyone who wants to take good family or vacation videos (or even vloggers), the Z5 is probably the best choice for a phone. Personally, I'd still take a real camera on vacations for better pics and optical zoom. Gawd, nothing is more annoying than taking a pic of something and have it show up the size of a pinhead because I couldn't zoom in.
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
schecter7 said:
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
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Good shots and a good example piece that demonstrates that you can get very good night shots from the Z5. I especially like the carriage.
As is my way, I've been looking through Flickr at S6 shots that random people have posted and have come across images like https://flic.kr/p/A14UVf and https://flic.kr/p/ytEfJq - both of which are noisier than a great many night shots and indoors night shots I've taken with my Z5. These are not isolated examples.
Not very scientific, I know, but it's evidence that getting good results is as much about the person behind the camera as it is about the camera itself. Those S6 shots aren't really any better than anything that the Z5 could produce: detail is relatively similar (though a little better with the S6, probably) and noise is higher. Compare that bar shot with one of mine in MUCH worse lighting (so much darker than the image produced): https://flic.kr/p/AHaxNj . Sure, the detail is smudgy but it is there and there is far less noise, to boot. Not saying that my image is perfect - anything but - but seeing the S6 bar shot above (Full of very ugly noise in an environment with many more light sources) makes me wonder just how much better the S6 would've handled that scene, if at all.
Some of my initial comparative shots.
Just my first day with Z5, and the shots are in difficult conditions sometimes, on purpose.
The Zoom is ok considering it was bad lighting.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsknZUGYc
At the club, at the bar, or just in your mom's basement, nighttime is when you come out to play. Rate this thread to express how the Huawei P40 Pro's camera performs when no or low light is present. A higher rating indicates that the camera sensor "sees" lots of light in dim conditions, and that the resulting photos have minimal noise. A higher rating also indicates that when the flash fires, the resulting photo is evenly-lit without any bright spots.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
Any experience regarding blur when capturing moving objects (pets, kids, people) indoor?
For me p40 pro doing night photos like a beast.
For low light shots, using normal "photo" mode seems better than using night mode. Example in attachments. First shot is night mode, second is photo mode.
I think night mode is better when you have a tripod. Although I havent tried that.
EDIT: After further testing, I think it really depends on the situation. In some situations, night mode will produce better shots. In others, it will produce worse shots than normal photo mode. So, just in case, always take at least two photos. One in photo mode, one in night mode.
Just a small low light comparison with Huawei Mate 20 Pro. Night mode used on both devices. As you can see on the photo taken with the Mate 20 Pro, the text "co engineered with Leica" isn't as clear as on the pic taken with P40 Pro. Huawei keeps improving their night mode, it's actually very impressive. ?
UXELLR said:
Any experience regarding blur when capturing moving objects (pets, kids, people) indoor?
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I do. A lot of pictures failed due do this. I expected a bit more from this phone on this point.
regarding low light, i had a few reviewers taking pictures in pitch darkness, yet the image comes out well. Just a point and shoot. is that in an update or its just fake? cause i have tried it, does not work
UXELLR said:
Any experience regarding blur when capturing moving objects (pets, kids, people) indoor?
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Michael69300 said:
I do. A lot of pictures failed due do this. I expected a bit more from this phone on this point.
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In that case, you need to expect a bit more from the fundamental laws of physics and optics.
Three approaches to low-light photos with a fixed aperture:
1) High ISO and short exposure - grainy pictures. The higher the ISO, the uglier the photo. Same with digital zoom, a real pestilence of modern times and death sentence of just any photo.
2) Low ISO and long exposure - in-motion unsharpness.
3) Multiple pictures taken with different ISO and exposure settings, "stacking".
That's it, eat or die. :/
Same with all digital cameras. There's no workaround to defy the laws of physics.
There's only one approach to taking low-light photos with a short exposure, thus being able to avoid in-motion unsharpness: High ISO, thus grainy pictures.
Taking high quality photos under bad lighting conditions always requires long exposures. And long exposures naturally cannot catch quick motions.
Okay, there's algorithms. But the worse the picture, the more the algorithms need to "guess". And guessing means "not knowing". Thus it's a kind of lottery if your low-light pictures showing moving objects turn out acceptable or bad.
If they're acceptable, be happy.
If they're bad, blame it on physics.
You are right about physics. Still there are difference between cameras/phones regarding blur. Pixel phones generally seem to capture movement better than, say galaxy phones. There has to be an acceptable weighting to faster shutter speeds, even if you end up with some grain. Its easier to fix grain afterwards than a light-trail-resembling face.
UXELLR said:
You are right about physics. Still there are difference between cameras/phones regarding blur. Pixel phones generally seem to capture movement better than, say galaxy phones. There has to be an acceptable weighting to faster shutter speeds, even if you end up with some grain. Its easier to fix grain afterwards than a light-trail-resembling face.
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You've got four options:
1) Use the Night mode, which will take several pictures with different ISOs and exposures, will then stack the pictures taken to achieve a kind of HDR picture for low-light purposes. Drawback: Not suitable for motion.
2) Use the regular Photo mode, which will try to get a sound balance of ISO and exposure, then use proprietary algorithms for making the best out of the mess taken.
3) Try the Pro mode, which allows you to set ISO, exposure and exposure value compensation ("EV", for brighening/darkening the photo a bit further) with less algorithms wreaking havoc on the picture. That way, you can experiment with the effects of different parameters like ISO and exposure time.
4) Use the Pro mode, but save the picture as a RAW file. It will look horrible without all the manipulations of the software algorithms. - Then grab a good PC tool for "developing" and postprocessing the RAW image. That way, you might be able to achieve better results because you bring in the "human factor", yourself, taking care of the things you prefer, not the software.
If you're heavily into catching quick movements, you need to force your P40 Pro into using short exposure times, then play with the other parameters to achieve a sound balance.
Two great PC tools for picture postprocessing:
1) "Luminar 4" by Skylum - this is your choice if you're new to image processing, don't wish to spend months with learning. That software gives you almost instant success with creating pleasant pictures.
2) "Affinity Photo" by Serif - that's your choice if you are an old-stager of image processing, and/or willing to spend weeks or months with the real steep learning curve of that software. It's the "swiss army knife" of everything out there. Utmost capable, can do just everything. But as said: Takes ages to master.
Both tools are massively supported by YouTube videos and tutorials, there's no evil subscription bondage as with Adobe, just give it a try.
I can almost guarantee you won't regret spending a few bucks - as postprocessing is one of the key factors for creating stunning images.
But I need to repeat: If you're new to this matter, go for Luminar, not for Affinity.
Additional note on that: As Huawei doesn't use the standard Bayer sensor matrix, RYYB instead of the "classic" RGGB, you might need to wait for the developers to implement some special algorithms/camera profiles dealing with that to achive real outstanding results. I did not try, yet, maybe it's okay already.
Each phone and camera and camera software has it's benefits and drawbacks. Some work great in a specific situation, less great in others. Plus, there's the "moment momentum": Exactly the same scene might result in a great or an ugly picture, slightest changes of lighting, field of view (affecting exposure metering and more) or temperature (sensor temperature is a common source of picture noise) might cause a mighty difference. It's just a bit unpredictable, no hardware/software combination is able to deal with each and every challenge, for each benefit you usually pay with a drawback.
Just like with everything in live.
Great post, thanks is given?Yes, one can achieve good results, even with less expencive mobile camera phones, if you are willing to invest time and work. The lack of HDR in pro mode, for instance is a big handicap when developing pictures yourself. Blown out highligts, as an example, cant be brought back if the data is not there. But again, great tips and workarounds for getting the best out of what you have!
jericho246 said:
For low light shots, using normal "photo" mode seems better than using night mode. Example in attachments. First shot is night mode, second is photo mode.
I think night mode is better when you have a tripod. Although I havent tried that.
EDIT: After further testing, I think it really depends on the situation. In some situations, night mode will produce better shots. In others, it will produce worse shots than normal photo mode. So, just in case, always take at least two photos. One in photo mode, one in night mode.
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i´m agree with you, the normal photo mode es better than the night mode
Normal night mode without settings vs 100 iso (normal night mode)..
Ricardo_G said:
i´m agree with you, the normal photo mode es better than the night mode
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I don't agree fully.
Both modes work a totally different way - normal mode taking just one picture, night mode taking several pictures and combining ("stacking") them into one.
Thus both modes have their own usage scenarios, with the normal mode suitable for taking pictures in "medium" low light, night mode being able to take picture in almost completely dark environments.
You can also "abuse" the night mode for taking pictures of computer screens without that nagging moiré effect.
So both modes are specialists in their field, allowing you to choose the one best suited for different situations, with both of them having their own benefits and drawbacks.