Database Users

Posting rules really don't rules at all

Hi there, all you guys and moderators.
I can't help my self from posting this...being frustrated and a wee bit disappointed!
I can't for the life of me see, nor understand, the "rule" for a new member of this forum, being prohibited to comment and/or post anything elsewhere then to the "approved" threads before making any post anywhere else! And mind you, you've got to produce ten (10) posts before being able to share your experiences and/or thoughts to anyone, such as the ROM-provider or a noob searching a answer...
And yes, I'm a noob..to you. Being a freshman at this forum doesn't necessarily mean I'm a noob at what I'm doing
With this post I want to share my thoughts around the posting rules here...and it triggers a flashback memory from when I worked as a consultant programmer at a BIG Swedish company and one of the other consultants asks me why they never saw me at the hours of extended hours at work, since the wast majority of consultants were there...well...my reply was: Why should I do extended working hours when I'm capable of finishing my work on a daily basis, working 9 to 5? I did not ever got an answer! My answer was to show that overtime hours didn't necessarily equals efficiency...
Get the drift don't you ? What I'm getting at is that it seems to me that quantity matters more than quality within this forum...and that conclusion doesn't feel nice at all!
I once upon a lullaby joined MS beta tester program...no one ever at MS had questioned the number of feedback experiences from the software/OS's that they have sent me...I'm living in the belief that MS actually took a look at the feedback provided and discovered that this guy probably got some experience, skills and interests for us to learn from...this said, not to express myself as a number one person to listen to, but as a noob within this forum, frustrated and PO'd.
Question that still lingers on: Why does quantity matters more than quality?

The minimum of 10 posts is before you can post in development fora.
You shouldn't be posting in development fora unless you're releasing something you developed anyways... Unless you're trying to offer feedback in a thread that already exists there.
The idea about not letting you post there before your get to 10 posts is so that maybe you figure this out, or someone tells you this. It's an imperfect system, but it's what the moderator committee has to work with.
Also, there is a HUGE difference between being a n00b, and being a new member. N00bs don't learn, or at least, they don't learn very easily.

Rules are there to limit the off topic, wrongfully posted threads in dev forums.That being said this thread has nothing to do with the device and because of which shouldn't have been made here. @OP go to Q&A and help other members to get your post .

[GUIDE] Forum Etiquette

This post is designed to promote proper forum etiquette. There has been a distressing trend in the XDA forums of laziness, impatience and rudeness. My goal is to curtail this and help promote the environment that XDA was designed to be.
A fun place for different people of varying technical experience to get together and learn from each other and to encourage out of the box thinking and design.
In order to accomplish this we, as a community must follow certain guidelines and have certain understandings. The following list is by no means all inclusive and in the true spirit of XDA, I welcome ANY and ALL constructive comments or additions.
1.The XDA forums are NOT a funded, company driven organization.
a. The participants are other people generally like you, with jobs, families and Outside XDA (OXDA) lives. Remember that and try to treat them as such.​
2.You are NOT entitled to anything.
a. If a developer creates an App or ROM or Kernel (ARK) and freely distributes it, remember that. FREE. Nothing is really for free. That individual spent his/her time in the development of that ARK and is either looking for feedback or simply enjoying sharing it with the community
b. You may feel negatively about that ARK, that’s OK. Ensure to voice your concerns in a CONSTRUCTIVE way or don’t voice them at all.
c. Don't hassle the OP about release dates of ARKs. They will share with the community when they feel it's ready and not before. If they didn't, they'd be opening the door to lots of criticism and "Halp! this is Broken!" (<-- Franco used that first I think ) type comments.​
3.NOT EVERYONE is on the same technical level as you.
a. There is no need to be rude or condescending to someone who has less knowledge than you.
b. By the same token, if you have less knowledge than those in the topic you've chosen to join, it’s always a good idea to remark on that if you ask a question; you may receive a more precise answer the first time.
c. If you've received an answer from someone via PM or figured it out on your own… SHARE it with the community. Chances are someone else has that issue also​
4. ***REMEMBER THE 5 MINUTE RULE*** The 5 minute rule, as it applies to conversations, states that “You must be a part of a conversation for at least 5 minutes prior to asking a question.”
a. This same rule applies in forums as well. Read at least 10 pages or 2 days’ worth of posts PRIOR to asking a question.
b. There is little more that will set off seasoned forum members that the save question being asked 2 or 3 pages in a row because someone figured they would just “Pop on” and ask a question in the first topic they thought was appropriate.​
5.Google Search Does Work.
a. No one likes to help those who don’t help themselves.
b. If you’ve found your way onto the XDA forums site, you understand how Google works. Use it to search for your answer first. You might be surprised by how easy it is to find an answer.​
6.Most devices have a General Question and Answer (Q&A) Topic.
a. Use this if resource if your question is Off-Topic (OT).​
7.READ THE OP.
a. The OP (Original Poster) is the individual who creates a thread. Commonly OP is the term used for the first post(s) on the first page of a thread, such as this one. I'll be referring to the common definition of the initial few posts.
b. A lot of the redundant posts have already been answered in the OP.
c. Failure to read the OP (+ the other initial post by the Topic’s creator) often leads to post after post of members saying the same thing…READ THE OP.​
8.Betas and Alphas.
a. Often apps in development will be released in the forums as Beta or Alpha (Test) software.
b. Test software MAY DO HORRIBLE THINGS TO YOUR DEVICE. This is not likely but understand that if you participate in test programs, the author does not have any responsibility for any damage caused to your device.​
9.Paid APPs.
a. An author may offer a paid version of his/her app(s) on the Play Store. The author may also have a Topic on XDA for that app.
b. Here is where the water gets murky.​i. You have paid real money for a bit of software, and therefore expect a reasonable amount of support.
ii. Often that support can and does come from other forum members.
iii. If your problem is still not resolved, don’t get snippy with the forum members, rather contact the developer directly (usually through their email from the play store).​
10.DON’T FALSELY BOLSTER YOUR PROFILE.
a. Most members of Topics are subscribed to many other Topics. You may see them there too.
b. Creating a second profile or using a friend to “Thank” your posts undeservingly is not only underhanded but other members will realize what you are doing. This is also against XDA Forum Rules. Perpetrators will be caught and banned.
c. There is no benefit to having eleventy-billion thanks if you have nothing of value to contribute.
d. YOUR PROFILE WILL BUILD AS YOU BECOME MORE ACTIVE IN THE FORUMS. This is not a video game where reaching Recognized Developer will afford you riches beyond compare. It’s actually useless if you lied and schemed to get there.​
11.Vulgarity & Rudeness.
a. There is no need to be vulgar (in any language) on XDA.
b. The forum members are a community of Men, Women, Teens and some really intelligent Sub-teens . Foul language is neither constructive nor appreciated.
c. What is the point of being rude, either to your fellow XDA-ers or to the OP. Please don't feel that anonymity grants you license to be rude or disrespectful.
d. Due to the multiple countries & languages involved, it is nearly inevitable that someone will take something the wrong way, I have. Try to curb the natural lash out reflex and probably you'll find more of a language barrier than someone who was intentionally trying to be rude.​
12.Ignored Private Messages (PMs).
a. Some developers and more senior members don’t/rarely respond to PMs from people they don’t know.
b. Often they have hundreds or thousands of people who use their ARK and cannot hope to respond to all via PM. Some of these (NRGZ28, Franco Francisco, Romanbb, WugFresh…), are so busy constantly making their ARK better for YOU, they often don’t have time to pop in on their own threads as much as the user would like. THAT IS THE STRENGTH OF XDAs MEMBER COMMUNITY. Use it appropriately and you will prosper. Abuse it and you might find yourself shunned.​
13.Posted Pictures.
a. We love PROOF, as a community. With all the slag on the Internets™ and the Googles™ (TM George W. Bush) we are often skeptical. That being said, it is not necessary to post every screen shot of your battery life, signal strength etc..
b. If it is not possible to describe your issue or if your issue requires a visual aid, great, use it.
c. If it isn't necessary, use a Dropbox account or the like and share the link. This accomplishes the following.​.
i. It reduces the storage load on XDAs servers.
ii. It minimizes clutter in threads making it easier for people to follow guideline #4 and for others to locate what they need
iii. It reduces Data usage for people using cellular data to browse XDA.​
14.Stay on Topic.
a.If the conversation strays too far from the topic you will give new people the wrong impression and clutter up the post with unrelated conversations. Little jokes are OK and a pleasant break but if the conversation has veered too far from the OP topic, it’s best to either form a new topic for that discussion, find the topic in which it belongs or continue via PM, Email, G-chat etc.​
15. Don't Forget to Hit Thanks!
a. If someone has helped you, in a PM or in a thread, hitting "Thanks" shows them & others you appreciate their efforts and adds to their DESERVED status.​
I welcome all new members and look forward to helping anyone that I can. Please remember, this list was not created out of malice but out of respect for this community and to aid new members in adjusting to our way of life, so to speak. .
Thank-You for all the suggestions, please feel free to continue to make our XDA better!

thanks for putting this together... you may just want to note, OP is the Original Poster, not the first post...just sayin'

Re: [Guide] Forum Etiquette
n7of9 said:
thanks for putting this together... you may just want to note, OP is the Original Poster, not the first post...just sayin'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I actually didn't know that's what it stood for. I do know that the OP is what the first post is commonly referred to. I'll add it.
Sent from my Nexus 7

Re: [Guide] Forum Etiquette
Great write up OP
One suggestion - at 10 b) Add not to create more than profile as it's against forum rules and will get all accounts banned.
"I don't care if you're the next Chainfire or just some random spammer. If you can't make 10 posts, you shouldn't be on XDA."

awesome write up....now if people would actually read it and follow it... they read the XDA forum rules and seem to forget it 5 minutes later
another suggestion would be not to ask for ETAs of ARK..im sure alot of devs get sick and tired of seeing all the people asking for
ETAs thier threads
ps.....i put a link to this thread in my sig
if its not ok with you i will remove it

OP Updated with member suggestions.

Re: [Guide] Forum Etiquette
n7of9 said:
thanks for putting this together... you may just want to note, OP is the Original Poster, not the first post...just sayin'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OP refers to Original poster or Original Post as the statement or sentence intends it to be!
No compulsions! just saying!
@Op (here I mean Original poster)
Very well written wish now every new user bothers to have a good read before posting!
Sens7t from my MT11i using xda premium

Re: [Guide] Forum Etiquette
Id like some kind of loophole in #11 please... it seems to be a new cultural flaw to pretend to be offended at anything and everything.
It's easy to complain when you don't have to prove anything.
Please allow for puns.. Word plays.. Inuendo etc.. or at least require some kind of verification.
It's the Internet, not kindergarten.
We have all kinds here..
Bring your own Purel...
If you're here, I suspect you're good with computers and therefore know who built the Internet..
I'd really like to say that I know the local youth minister will pop in here and not get anywhere complaining about all the "OMG" posts
(I'm a former youth minister.. I can say that)

n7of9 said:
thanks for putting this together... you may just want to note, OP is the Original Poster, not the first post...just sayin'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I believe that it references Opening Post, not Original Poster. Oftentimes, folks are directed to the OP (Opening Post) to answer questions originally posted in the first post of the thread.

Re: [Guide] Forum Etiquette
MarkAtHome said:
Actually, I believe that it references Opening Post, not Original Poster. Oftentimes, folks are directed to the OP (Opening Post) to answer questions originally posted in the first post of the thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's both original post AND original poster.
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

it doesn't actually matter, we all know this, right? and we've had 3 replies about it, so now let's make it 4
http://www.internetslang.com/OP-meaning-definition.asp

I noticed that this thread/OP has been linked to in people's signatures, and rightly so. But it does not seem to refer to two common breaches of etiquette, namely asking what is the best rom and asking for thanks button presses. Although the last might need qualifying by "instead of posting thanks".
Great job though:good::good:

Join our group..

Hi guys
we're a little group of K3 note users...we talk about our device,follow latest developments from various forums like 4pda and others,some little bugfixings,and of course fun.....
we would like to have some skillful people,enthusiast,beta testers,developers,seekers among us.....
we would be really happy to have some skilled people among us...and could use some help.
we use telegram as our messenger... cause it's the best at group management...file uploads..stickers..everything..
NB-we won't allow kangers,selfish,and extremely noob/dull people(of course learners are very much welcome)
if we see kanging/selfishness or any fishy behaviour...you'll be banned without any notice...
and you've to be active
Mod edit: thread closed. Promotion of social media/blogs is against XDA rules

Elephone's customer support is worse than thought

Elephone's customer support is low-quality. Everybody already knew. But it's worse than that!
I've posted some questions and issues in a thread addressed to one of the moderators on the Elephone forum, but without given any answers this is the system message I received on my account on that forum:
您已被 chan1o 禁止发言，期限：90天(0：代表永久禁言)，禁言理由：Continuously posting same topic links in every post and irritating so much.
Here's what really happened: When moderator chan1o challenged me as if there are no issues or problems with P9000, I compiled a list of links for him with unsolved questions and issues from the forum. Without getting back with explanations, moderator chan1o went on posting advertising threads on the forum. So I posted him a reminder with a link to my post in the hope to draw his attention and to get him back to do, what Elephone customers expect him to do.
In total I have send one post on one of his threads, and two links to that post in other threads.
We all knew that Elephone customer support is bad and that the company cares more about earning money from unknowing customers, than to show any appreciation for their buyers. Blocking me from the forum because he didn't liked my post is the last thing I'd expect a moderator to do.
http://bbs.elephone.hk/?90419

I have send the following to the Elephone forum Admin on [email protected] and on the Elephone forum http://bbs.elephone.hk/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=13315&fromuid=92084
Edit 29/3: above linked got removed. here it is now: http://bbs.elephone.hk/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=13319&fromuid=90419
I have a formal complaint against moderator chan1o.
Moderator chan1o is only posting advertisement threads and he does not give customer support. When users write about issues or problems with their Elephone product, he only replies with meaningless comments.
When moderator chan1o challenged me as if there are no issues or problems with P9000, I compiled a list of links for him with unsolved questions and issues collected from the forum. Without getting back with explanations, moderator chan1o went on posting advertising threads on the forum. So I posted him a reminder with a link to my post in the hope to draw his attention for support.
In total I have send one post on one of his threads, and two links to that post in other threads.
In my opinion moderator chan1o misapplies the forum rules by banning my account farsiray. http://bbs.elephone.hk/?90419
My opinion with reference to the forum rules: http://bbs.elephone.hk/thread-10138-1-1.html
Rule 5.5.6 I have left only 2 repeated links to only 1 post. That cannot be interpreted as flooding the forum.
Rule 6.2 Moderator chan1o did not give three warnings.
Conclusion: chan1o did not have the right to move my account to the Read Only group.
Dear Administrator, Please deal with this matter.
I'm looking forward that the ban on my account will be removed so I can carry on having communication with other P9000 users on the Forum where we help each other.
Thank you.

also have a look at this post on the Elephone forum, where a Moderator assaulted a forum member
http://bbs.elephone.hk/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=12946&pid=129608&fromuid=90419

I think we all know any Chinese brand manufacturer are generally always pretty bad at after care support. In-fact when ever I buy a handset from a Chinese based manufacturer, i take on board if anything goes wrong I know its usually a pointless exercise taking it up with the Chinese company concerned and usually take the matter up with the retailer I bought it from (assuming its within a sensible period that is)
Without a shadow of a doubt Elephone are extremely bad when it comes to service. It is shockingly abysmal.
Anyone who doubts this should really visit their "support forum" and I can assure you, it wont take you long to realize what Elephone is really all about. They dont listen to their customers, they dont help their customers and whats worse they have a forum admin that has even verbally abused a customer via PM (assuming ofcourse, the customer who posted this was indeed speaking the truth)
One thing they seem to be really good though is marketing & selling their devices, particularly on their "support forum" where mods/admins are always eager & enthusiastic to appear to post the latest/greatest Elephone device/accessory. Its just a pity they dont show the same eagerness to post anything when someone needs support or help.
Anyway good to hear they lifted the ban on your account and as I repeat what I posted on Elephone forum - dont buy their products, advise others to do the same and move on ;0)

To those who caused Frankie to pull his ROM support...

As a member of XDA and a fellow user and somewhat acquaintance of the S.I.X. ROM dev, I feel this is a necessary post. Frankie (the dev) put a lot of hard work into S.I.X. ROM and some individuals seemed to not like that he on his own was able to make one of, if not the first functional Android 8 ROM for the N6.
I'm ashamed to be part of the XDA community right now as a result of all this. I thought we were better than this...
The point of a community is to work together to make progress, not attack those who get somewhere first because you are jealous.

Very well said. After 8 years here, I'm still amazed at the childishness of some supposed "senior" members and "contributors." Pettiness is the death of innovation.

Unfortunately this happens quite often on XDA. The people who originally figure stuff out get pushed out by kangers who want to "see" the code, claiming open source and license rule violations.

It's the interwebs, that the way it is. Your going to get trolls no matter what the subject is or what forum (Sports, Android, Gaming, Politics etc) your visiting.
Some of you act like you've never seen a troll, get your head out of the sand..........JEEZ!!!
EDIT: A Mod should close this thread because it serves no purpose whatsoever

* * * TO SUPPORT YOUR FAV DEV, PLEASE READ * * *
The Xda community has well over 7 million members.
Just like families of 6 or 10 have crazy uncles and weird cousins, there is NO WAY to remove all the craziness from a 7 million member community.
So while certain Roms or specific development areas DO have trouble, animosity, jealousy, kanging, etc, it is by and large a SMALL percentage of the Xda community.
As far as this specific situation; this won't be the first dev to pull their work and it won't be the last. Facts are facts.
There is absolutely NO WAY to keep every dev of kernels, Roms, apps, mods, etc. from being offended by something, someone, somewhere during their time with Xda, most of the time it's legit, sometimes it's just petty (devs are people too)
With that being said, the Moderation staff, which are all volunteers (just like the devs) work daily to remove, and reduce those who cause trouble within Xda.
The absolute BEST thing EVERY member can do is REPORT trouble, trolls, problems, and NO ENGAGE them in the threads when they come to town.
A large amount of thread troubles occur when well intending regulars of the thread engage trolls and troublemakers, and suddenly there are 4 pages of insults, attacks, disrespect. What dev wants to deal with that when they do this for free and for fun?
The reasons devs pull their work can be vast and multi-tiered, and no one can control the outcome of that except the devs themselves.
The more GOOD members who maintain their composure and follow the rules by NOT engaging in off-topic, troll chasing, the easier it is to identify, and remove the troublemakers, and the less trouble threads will have overall.
If 6.9 million members don't feed the .1 million trolls, they'll stop trolling... No private community will EVER be free of trolls, it's impossible as sometimes good members go tot he troll side and there is NO WAY to stop that prior to it happening.
So to you good members who respect the devs and the Xda community, do your part and follow the rules, report the trolls don't feed them, and we can all offer those who dev and assist in threads, the best atmosphere possible (which will never be perfect) to share, develop and enjoy this thing we call Xda.
Unfortunately, threads like this, no matter how well intended, only invite MORE drama and add more fuel to the troll fire, so it is being closed.
Thank you for your cooperation
tl;dr Xda is a HUGE community. You good members work at being the best part of Xda by following the rules, and not feeding the trolls. Let the Moderation Staff handle the troublemakers. Continue to help your fav dev with bugs and show them respect, say thank you a lot (it's free) and throw them a bone once in a while.