Related
Hi,
It is really exciting that we are starting to get some real android car stereos on the market, that have software in them that can be entertained by the developers here on XDA. There are so many headunits that look the same with different hardware, look different with similar hardware, and are just altogether different. I can't find definitive information anywhere, and frankly search just returns too much scattered information to really sift through.
Needs:
Hands free quality is important.
hardware volume control - prefer a knob, but buttons are ok. I just do not want software volume buttons.
Rooted Android
3 sets of 4+ volt preouts, including controllable non-fading subwoofer preout
I don't care about a DVD/CD player - if it has one cool, but I don't need one.
What I'd like it to do:
"OK Google"
Tasker
Google Maps
Pandora
Spotify
Sirius/XM app - or Sirius satellite radio (I don't know if any of them do this natively)
Vevo
Kodi
Netflix
Hulu
Amazon Prime
Torque connected via bluetooth
bluetooth hands-free phone calls
WIFI tethered from Foxfi running on my phone
Am I looking for too much or is there a head unit that looks like it can accommodate this?
Summary Questions:
Other than price, is there any reason to consider the dual core (instead of the quad core) or the smaller resolution (i.e. are there some apps that don't work right with the larger resolution)?
Are some MCUs better than others?
Do all of the better Android head units suffer the problems with the microphone that will require modification to fix, or is there one out that has the fix already implemented? I saw the threads where people are desoldering stuff. Has that been resolved by some of the manufacturers, or am I destined to do that mod also?
Is there a really good aftermarket hands free microphone that is worth buying?
Is there sub pre-out control either on the stock firmware, or on a different ROM?
Is the sub pre-out affected by the fader?
What is the voltage at the pre-outs?
Do any of the units come with an IR sensor and/or a remote control?
Can I connect the bluetooth OBDII module, bluetooth phone, and wireless wifi tethering from the phone at the same time?
When text messages come into my cell phone, does the radio read them to me? Can I voice-to-text respond?
Does anyone see anything wrong with my needs, or the apps I plan to run?
Are any of them running newer iterations of Android? Is there anything stopping a developer from releasing a ROM with a newer android?
Should I be considering another unit? Is there an Android head unit other than one of the Hue Fei clones that would serve my needs better? Is there one Hue Fei clones that stands out as better than the others, or gets better support than the others, or that fits my needs better?
So it looks like the other two to consider other than the Hue Fei clones is the Newsmy which only has 1 RCA Pre-out and the Ownice which doesn't have root.
there is a new generation of AN-21U unbranded units floating around ali express. If you shop around you can get a good deal on one. Quad core R16 A9/1 GB RAM/up to 1080x600 res. There is little info on them so far since they are so new, but since they appear to be an update to a very popular pre-existing model, they should gain more support soon on xda.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/and...nd-generation-4-4-2-android-21u-ouku-t3230587
I have one coming in today and will update that thread with my impressions. I previously owned a carjoying UQ-124 so I will have a good unit to compare it to.
The carjoying unit was pretty solid but had one major issue - BT audio quality. The audio also was controlled by the MCU (poorly) which required a complex hardware mod to rectify. I also for some reason had stability issues w/ google now voice control (ok google)... worked sometimes but would crash >50% of the time.
I am hoping my new unit will not have these issues.
gijosh28 said:
So it looks like the other two to consider other than the Hue Fei clones is the Newsmy which only has 1 RCA Pre-out and the Ownice which doesn't have root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Newsmy CarPad III (NRXXXX) has 5.1 pre-out available and uses the same MCU and ROM as the CarPad II (NUXXXX)
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indashnet-world-s-first-open-source-infotainment/x/5292434#/story
This guy has been pretty responsive with his first 2 designs and now he's putting out an octa-core unit. Probably overkill but the indiegogo price is right. I don't know what his projected delivery dates are for this unit. You can check out his google+ page as well. That is his primary avenue for support and it seems to mostly work pretty well.
Hope i could provide some information. Please check the comments in quote.
gijosh28 said:
Hi,
It is really exciting that we are starting to get some real android car stereos on the market, that have software in them that can be entertained by the developers here on XDA. There are so many headunits that look the same with different hardware, look different with similar hardware, and are just altogether different. I can't find definitive information anywhere, and frankly search just returns too much scattered information to really sift through.
Needs:
Hands free quality is important.
hardware volume control - prefer a knob, but buttons are ok. I just do not want software volume buttons.
Rooted Android
3 sets of 4+ volt preouts, including controllable non-fading subwoofer preout
I don't care about a DVD/CD player - if it has one cool, but I don't need one.
What I'd like it to do:
"OK Google"
Tasker
Google Maps
Pandora
Spotify
Sirius/XM app - or Sirius satellite radio (I don't know if any of them do this natively)
Vevo
Kodi
Netflix
Hulu
Amazon Prime
Torque connected via bluetooth
bluetooth hands-free phone calls
WIFI tethered from Foxfi running on my phone
Am I looking for too much or is there a head unit that looks like it can accommodate this?
Summary Questions:
Other than price, is there any reason to consider the dual core (instead of the quad core) or the smaller resolution (i.e. are there some apps that don't work right with the larger resolution)?
Think mobile phone. it is similar.
Are some MCUs better than others?
What MCU done is about more low level works like power management. really depends on design. No base for comparing.
Do all of the better Android head units suffer the problems with the microphone that will require modification to fix, or is there one out that has the fix already implemented? I saw the threads where people are desoldering stuff. Has that been resolved by some of the manufacturers, or am I destined to do that mod also?
Most have mic built-in(in the panel), some have external connector which provide a chance to apply a good mic.
Is there a really good aftermarket hands free microphone that is worth buying?
No idea.
Is there sub pre-out control either on the stock firmware, or on a different ROM?
It is not about software/ROM/firmeware. this is by hardware design.
Is the sub pre-out affected by the fader?
Normally.
What is the voltage at the pre-outs?
depends on hardware design.
Do any of the units come with an IR sensor and/or a remote control?
Many.
Can I connect the bluetooth OBDII module, bluetooth phone, and wireless wifi tethering from the phone at the same time?
Wifi/BT same time for all head unit. BT OBD and BT Phone call together, it depends.
When text messages come into my cell phone, does the radio read them to me? Can I voice-to-text respond?
This could be done by one App which is not related to Head unit. don't know whether it exists already.
Does anyone see anything wrong with my needs, or the apps I plan to run?
could say no barrier. Need to check hardware related items.
Are any of them running newer iterations of Android? Is there anything stopping a developer from releasing a ROM with a newer android?
Lots of work is needed to port system to a newer version android. Similar as mobile phone.
Should I be considering another unit? Is there an Android head unit other than one of the Hue Fei clones that would serve my needs better? Is there one Hue Fei clones that stands out as better than the others, or gets better support than the others, or that fits my needs better?
no answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I posted my thoughts on the 2nd gen AN-21U vs joying UQ-124 here -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/and...eration-4-4-2-android-21u-ouku-t3230587/page3
summary - new unit is better than joying in every way except for customization and xda support. I have not applied an external amp or sub to my system yet, but I will soon. I am already using custom speakers (focal 8"). BT audio quality is night and day difference over joying. Bad BT audio quality is not universal, joying just did a poor job b/c they wired internal & external mic in parallel & used low quality bt module. I highly recommend it, though I have only had a short time with it (less than a day). My thoughts may change as I get more time to find issues.
@nonstop2050, I like how active you are here, I would have loved to buy one of your units had you supported my vehicle. If someone were to buy how long would you take to ship? I had to wait 3 weeks for my unit... I think they manufacture units as the orders come in, they don't keep stock on hand.
The joying units with a single volume knob allow you to adjust the pre out voltage. I have mine feeding into a 4 channel amp, powering front hertz components and a single JBL sub. I use the crossover on the amplifier - more scope for adjustability & probably performs more consistently than the one in the headunit feeding the sub pre out.
Hi there,
I'm still in my internal debate of doing a tablet car install (like Galaxy Tab S2 8 inch) or getting an Android Headunit to avoid all the install struggles.
So I have been looking around on different forums for quite a while to find a REALLY working combo with an Android Head unit on Android 8.0 and a USB DAC. I would prefer an optical out DAC. Have you any positive experiences and suggestions of both models that would fit ?
I'm planning on getting a Sabre ES9010 based DAC or a Sabre ES9010K2M.
Anyone got it working with an head unit ?
By the way, I'm aware of the issues with the volume with the radio and bluetooth. I will be using a MiniDSP 6x8 with it in a MK5 golf.
i work with joying headunit + with sabre u2 dac.
the volume little loud even when i set it to one. ( i also add more step no change)
for bt call i connect a speaker to the internal amp of headunit, for me its better because my external sound processor add delay to the speakers. ( the speaker work on bt call and radio. )
if u have a physical volume is better, u can try Fain volume control v2 or Precise volume to get the volume more dynamic.
RoNeReR said:
i work with joying headunit + with sabre u2 dac.
the volume little loud even when i set it to one. ( i also add more step no change)
for bt call i connect a speaker to the internal amp of headunit, for me its better because my external sound processor add delay to the speakers. ( the speaker work on bt call and radio. )
if u have a physical volume is better, u can try Fain volume control v2 or Precise volume to get the volume more dynamic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need an Intel based joying unit. They are still being sold. Works!
Thanks for your answers. So I guess any Sabre DAC world work ! Good news.
RoNeReR said:
i work with joying headunit + with sabre u2 dac.
the volume little loud even when i set it to one. ( i also add more step no change)
for bt call i connect a speaker to the internal amp of headunit, for me its better because my external sound processor add delay to the speakers. ( the speaker work on bt call and radio. )
if u have a physical volume is better, u can try Fain volume control v2 or Precise volume to get the volume more dynamic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I can connect both RCA out from HU to DSP swell as the Optical out. It should be quite easy to switch from one input to another and remove the delay compensation probably.
What specific model are you using from joying ?
gtxaspec said:
You need an Intel based joying unit. They are still being sold. Works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about other models like PX5 that contains 4GB RAM and such ? Sabre DAC are not supposed to work on ARM as well ?
Hypnox99 said:
Thanks for your answers. So I guess any Sabre DAC world work ! Good news.
I guess I can connect both RCA out from HU to DSP swell as the Optical out. It should be quite easy to switch from one input to another and remove the delay compensation probably.
What specific model are you using from joying ?
What about other models like PX5 that contains 4GB RAM and such ? Sabre DAC are not supposed to work on ARM as well ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the software on the head unit, the 4gb models are made by a different vendor. The PX 2gb units are made by the same vendor as the Intel, so we know the USB devices work well.
gtxaspec said:
The problem is the software on the head unit, the 4gb models are made by a different vendor. The PX 2gb units are made by the same vendor as the Intel, so we know the USB devices work well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for answering me. So alright, I see. But I guess the Intel units present the same following problems like : 44.1khz/16 bit playback max, no knob volume control and some applications playing only through the HU audio chip?
Because if the 44.1khz/16 bit problem is fixable as well as all of the applications can play though the USB Dac (not mentioning radio or bt audio since I don't care of thoses so much) the Android HU will get interesting...
On another note, do theses head unit run smooth for quite while and will get Android updates? I didn't see any of the Intel based shipped with Android 8.
Still in my internal debate of tablet dash install vs Android HU vs Western brands Android Auto capable stereo...
So again thanks a lot
QUOTE-Because if the 44.1khz/16 bit problem is fixable as well as all of the applications can play though the USB Dac (not mentioning radio or bt audio since I don't care of thoses so much) the Android HU will get interesting...
On another note, do theses head unit run smooth for quite while and will get Android updates? I didn't see any of the Intel based shipped with Android 8.
--ENDQUOTE
Firstly I personally don't regard 44khz and 16bit audio as a "problem". It is more than adequate for reproduction in a vehicle with all the other attendant noise sources, especially with a window or sunroof open.
Head unit manufacturers are way way behind other Android tablet and 'phone manufacturers by the order of about 2 years. They are still selling and promoting Kit Kat head units. You probably won't see any Android 8 units for another couple of years, if you are very lucky you may find a Nougat unit to suit your vehicle.
Good hunting, Tony.
vidtek said:
QUOTE-Because if the 44.1khz/16 bit problem is fixable as well as all of the applications can play though the USB Dac (not mentioning radio or bt audio since I don't care of thoses so much) the Android HU will get interesting...
On another note, do theses head unit run smooth for quite while and will get Android updates? I didn't see any of the Intel based shipped with Android 8.
--ENDQUOTE
Firstly I personally don't regard 44khz and 16bit audio as a "problem". It is more than adequate for reproduction in a vehicle with all the other attendant noise sources, especially with a window or sunroof open.
Head unit manufacturers are way way behind other Android tablet and 'phone manufacturers by the order of about 2 years. They are still selling and promoting Kit Kat head units. You probably won't see any Android 8 units for another couple of years, if you are very lucky you may find a Nougat unit to suit your vehicle.
Good hunting, Tony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok then, the Android version does not matters that much. Seems like Android 6 is OK. Thanks.
I have been looking around and found that some people can get the HDMI out from a PX3 7.1 HU to a box that will extract the audio and feed it as optical to a DSP. Is this advisable ? I guess the volume knob will work with it and after all it will be "as good" as a USB DAC out. I understood that the problem are the converters before the RCA out...
On a side note I was thinking about Joying Intel Sofia for vw golf, I have found some Android 6 units, but can't seem to find one with HDMI out. Only Xtrons PX3 seem to have HDMI out for the units made specifically for the vw golf.
So if I understand well, when I'm using a USB DAC, only bluetooth audio and radio will go through the RCA out ? Anything else will go through the DAC ? If using on a Sofia Intel.
I have also been looking at Android Audio to USB, something like the MiniDSP USB Streamer, any thoughts ?
Many many questions again
Hypnox99 said:
Ok then, the Android version does not matters that much. Seems like Android 6 is OK. Thanks.
I have been looking around and found that some people can get the HDMI out from a PX3 7.1 HU to a box that will extract the audio and feed it as optical to a DSP. Is this advisable ? I guess the volume knob will work with it and after all it will be "as good" as a USB DAC out. I understood that the problem are the converters before the RCA out...
On a side note I was thinking about Joying Intel Sofia for vw golf, I have found some Android 6 units, but can't seem to find one with HDMI out. Only Xtrons PX3 seem to have HDMI out for the units made specifically for the vw golf.
So if I understand well, when I'm using a USB DAC, only bluetooth audio and radio will go through the RCA out ? Anything else will go through the DAC ? If using on a Sofia Intel.
I have also been looking at Android Audio to USB, something like the MiniDSP USB Streamer, any thoughts ?
Many many questions again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hypnox-
I installed a Joying in mine, a VW EOS, and since doing the Heatsink/fan modification, I have been quite satisfied with it's performance. They supply all the looms and can-bus interface to suit your model car and it is the easiest plug and play install imaginable, takes 5 minutes.
I was in the same position as you, although not as fixated on the sound fidelity I was choosing between a tablet and head unit solution. I am VERY glad I chose the head unit, the finished install looks like an OEM unit and performs with very few hiccups. See the piccies of mine below. The unit I chose was a UK-JY-VM130N2D, it has a digital amplifier and 2 MicroSD card slots on the front (I have used them with up to 128gb MicroSD cards) and most importantly for me a physical volume knob.
Cheers Tony.
vidtek said:
Hypnox-
I installed a Joying in mine, a VW EOS, and since doing the Heatsink/fan modification, I have been quite satisfied with it's performance. They supply all the looms and can-bus interface to suit your model car and it is the easiest plug and play install imaginable, takes 5 minutes.
I was in the same position as you, although not as fixated on the sound fidelity I was choosing between a tablet and head unit solution. I am VERY glad I chose the head unit, the finished install looks like an OEM unit and performs with very few hiccups. See the piccies of mine below. The unit I chose was a UK-JY-VM130N2D, it has a digital amplifier and 2 MicroSD card slots on the front (I have used them with up to 128gb MicroSD cards) and most importantly for me a physical volume knob.
Cheers Tony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I forgot to post a picture of the finished job, see below. Pic 1 is original MFD2 VW unit, pic 2 the Joying.
Tony
This is some nice unit there Thank you for your input ! By the way this is exactly the Sofia Intel based unit I have my eyes on. I will certainly make the same mod as you if I pull the trigger on this one and the integration into the dash is very sexy
I'm still trying to figure out the HDMI out audio extraction if possible on PX3 Xtrons unit... I might send Xtrons a mail, but not sure if they will reply. Also trying to know if spotify can use USB dac for audio out... Damn, finding the "somewhat" good unit is not easy task.
Hypnox99 said:
This is some nice unit there Thank you for your input ! By the way this is exactly the Sofia Intel based unit I have my eyes on. I will certainly make the same mod as you if I pull the trigger on this one and the integration into the dash is very sexy
I'm still trying to figure out the HDMI out audio extraction if possible on PX3 Xtrons unit... I might send Xtrons a mail, but not sure if they will reply. Also trying to know if spotify can use USB dac for audio out... Damn, finding the "somewhat" good unit is not easy task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hypnox- You seem to be hypnotised (pun intended) by sound quality. I am a video/ audio engineer with 50 years experience. I have installed hundreds of home theatre hif-fi and casino/night club PA systems.
As we age, our hearing deteriorates rapidly from the age of 12 onwards. In today's world with attendant noise pollution, headphone use, aircraft and motor noise and concert visits, our hearing is far worse than previous generations at an earlier age. Most people over 30 will have difficulty hearing any signal over 12,000khz.
There is a hearing testing app in the google play store, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobile.eaudiologia&hl=en using headphone/earbuds why don't you check your own hearing before embarking on a quest for excellent sound in your equipment, you could well save yourself a bundle of dosh and a heap of time!
As we age, the viscocity of the fluid in our ears gets thicker, which is why older people hate the boom boom of bass notes youngsters love so much, it literally resounds inside our heads and is painful. Older folks turn up the treble/high equaliser settings in a vain attempt to hear those high notes we once could hear. This in turn is painful to young people who cannot stand high levels of higher frequencies, because they can actually hear them!
When you try to put a high-fidelity sound system into a car environment, you are basically pushing sh*t uphill. As soon as you open a window, all the careful measurements an audio installer makes literally goes out of the window.
My advice, forget hifi in a car, it's is a nonsense. If you must have hifi in your car, use headphones and let someone else do the driving.
Sorry for the lecture, you don't want to get me started on the monster cable and oxygen-free cable rip-offs
Cheers Tony.
vidtek said:
Hypnox- You seem to be hypnotised (pun intended) by sound quality. I am a video/ audio engineer with 50 years experience. I have installed hundreds of home theatre hif-fi and casino/night club PA systems.
As we age, our hearing deteriorates rapidly from the age of 12 onwards. In today's world with attendant noise pollution, headphone use, aircraft and motor noise and concert visits, our hearing is far worse than previous generations at an earlier age. Most people over 30 will have difficulty hearing any signal over 12,000khz.
There is a hearing testing app in the google play store, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobile.eaudiologia&hl=en using headphone/earbuds why don't you check your own hearing before embarking on a quest for excellent sound in your equipment, you could well save yourself a bundle of dosh and a heap of time!
As we age, the viscocity of the fluid in our ears gets thicker, which is why older people hate the boom boom of bass notes youngsters love so much, it literally resounds inside our heads and is painful. Older folks turn up the treble/high equaliser settings in a vain attempt to hear those high notes we once could hear. This in turn is painful to young people who cannot stand high levels of higher frequencies, because they can actually hear them!
When you try to put a high-fidelity sound system into a car environment, you are basically pushing sh*t uphill. As soon as you open a window, all the careful measurements an audio installer makes literally goes out of the window.
My advice, forget hifi in a car, it's is a nonsense. If you must have hifi in your car, use headphones and let someone else do the driving.
Sorry for the lecture, you don't want to get me started on the monster cable and oxygen-free cable rip-offs
Cheers Tony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your point of view, I certainly don't have the same Audio background as you.
However I'm 28 and a music producer and I can certainly tell the difference between pairs of monitoring speaker. Through the years (still a lot to learn though) I have developed my hear in mixing sessions. And I have a passion for listening to music as well.
I have replaced the stock HU of my car with a 100$ Sony last year and I can tell straight away the difference in sound quality. I also made an audio car install on another car and the difference between the stock system is stunning.
Here, I just want to have a decent audio quality, I know that in car audio there is some serious diminishing return when you build your system.
If you take a look on XDA and like diymobileaudio, you will find hundreds of threads stating that the audio quality is poor even in a car...
You know, If for 50$ I can get a DAC working pretty well with it and that it won't crush the audio quality, I'm all for it
Hypnox99 said:
I understand your point of view, I certainly don't have the same Audio background as you.
However I'm 28 and a music producer and I can certainly tell the difference between pairs of monitoring speaker. Through the years (still a lot to learn though) I have developed my hear in mixing sessions. And I have a passion for listening to music as well.
I have replaced the stock HU of my car with a 100$ Sony last year and I can tell straight away the difference in sound quality. I also made an audio car install on another car and the difference between the stock system is stunning.
Here, I just want to have a decent audio quality, I know that in car audio there is some serious diminishing return when you build your system.
If you take a look on XDA and like diymobileaudio, you will find hundreds of threads stating that the audio quality is poor even in a car...
You know, If for 50$ I can get a DAC working pretty well with it and that it won't crush the audio quality, I'm all for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hypnox- OK at 28 your hearing will be far superior to mine-especially as in my mis-spent youth I was in a rock band before health and safety went bananas, we always used the same stage layout so my right ear is shall we say, less than perfect?
I just hate to see people spending money on a system which as you say is subject to the law of diminishing returns when they could be spending it on other leisure pursuits, or food and housing.....
As long as you get a system that floats your boat and you personally are satisfied, who can gainsay that?
Good luck to you, Tony.
Bump. Would love to get an update on the status of that quest of knowledge.
Please can someone help? I really want (as many of you) to use an external DAC (standard PCM2704) with and android HU. It works with my Android 5.1 Tablet but I am really looking for a compatible HU.
Do you have a model that works with USB DAC? I want a recent one available to buy on market.
Thanks
Lets make this Thread a nice help for everyone
So here is my DAC setup and I can say that the sound is so much better. And with an external eq, it is easy to have access to the Bluetooth and the other things you have inside you Head Units until we find a way to send all the signal to the DAC !!!
First of all,
My head Unit is a: XTRONS TE706PL
To go the DAC way, I brought a preamp CLARION EQS755 and an AudioQuest DRAGONFLY RED
The only problem was that I was getting Pops and bizarre sound out of the signal chain.
I get a AmazonBasics 4-Port USB 2.0 Ultra-Mini Hub and I now connect the DAC and the POPS are almost gone now ( it was a current problem i guess ) Only some bizarre sound comes now and then Flash drive is loading. ( only in DAC MODE )
Upgrade for the future
AUDIOQUEST JITTERBUG will change for the IFI ISILENCER
CHORD MOJO or something in that caliber as an EXTERNAL DAC. ( in about 5 month ) as i need some money
I did a some video to show you the difference in quality and the pops I am talking about
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LEBDARV6GRV_wF3pInB1fgjwm4Aw8Gbf
UPDATED
Just receive my IFI ISILENCER , I can say that the sound is about 1 to 4 % better with it. I test it in my car and in my house. It kinda makes a difference but you need to really focus to hear it.
I still have that computer distortion coming from both my HEAD UNIT and my main computer. ( this have to be regularize before the current goes to the head unit I guess )
have a good day.
Have a good day everyone !
Did anyone figure out a way to get the android volum control to turn up and down the usb audio output. ??
Hi all. Id thought Id start another thread regarding the SQ of this device.
Iv always used Alpine Head Units for last 20 years but bit the bullet and bought this device to try and bring my ICE into the future a bit.
My system is HU - RCA's - C-DSP6x8 - RCA's - 3xJL amps - Focal Utopias (6w2/TN51)/2x JL ZR800's/1x JL 13W3
+ a shed load of experience with Room EQ wizard and at least 2 years of my life I won't get back!
In comparison I can say the SQ of the pumpkin sucks, also a bit of ground noise I never had before.
Will a USB DAC work with this unit?
Which one? I read a thread where someone used a USB to SPDIF converter board with Texas instruments chip on board, very simple which is good and cost less than a tenner from Amazon! then there's dragonfly dongles, then there's miniDSP's MiniDAC8. Price range between £10 & £200
Also I was always under the impression if you use a digital signal from your source unit you cannot control the volume from that source unit as bits and bytes cannot be attenuated so the volume control would be from the DSP(via the wired remote)
Can anyone suggest a tried and tested setup for getting a clean signal from this source to my DSP that wont break the bank, (Bit One out of the question) I think Iv spent enough on my system now as its probably worth more than my car! (B7 audi a4 3.0tdi)
Thanks
ps I am a complete Android programming noob but can learn with a bit of help
from Lollipop there is dac native support on all devices, so it should work.
in joying headunit the radio and bluetooth not work with the dac, u can add small speaker for the bt, or connect another rca pair to the sound processor if the pumpkin also suffer this problem.
i recommend the hifimediy, be aware that spdif its digital connection so its really not important which dac u choose , the conversion from analog to digital will process on your c-dsp
u can see dac support here:
http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/technology/usb-audio-driver
Hi and thanks for reply. I looked at the DAC you use and read through that link. Another good thing about the external DAC is any analogue ground noise from the device should be isolated. There is ground noise on this units RCA outputs (to be expected on a device in this price range) once you rig up the bluetooth/radio via rca's anywhere into the chain that noise will be re-introduced. I'm not sure there's a way round this issue but its a minor one.
The HiFimeDIY also has spdif out so if connecting to my DSP with digital coax I assume the volume pot wouldn't work? Not a problem since any DAC will have it own analogue volume control I can use the master volume (after DSP). Still if I connected BT/radio via RCA that volume would be controlled by the device. Unless somehow I set everything up for max volume and use just the master to control everything. I have a lot more learning experimenting ahead!
This could be a deal breaker:- Will spotify ouput be routed through the DAC?
mamba76 said:
Hi and thanks for reply. I looked at the DAC you use and read through that link. Another good thing about the external DAC is any analogue ground noise from the device should be isolated. There is ground noise on this units RCA outputs (to be expected on a device in this price range) once you rig up the bluetooth/radio via rca's anywhere into the chain that noise will be re-introduced. I'm not sure there's a way round this issue but its a minor one.
The HiFimeDIY also has spdif out so if connecting to my DSP with digital coax I assume the volume pot wouldn't work? Not a problem since any DAC will have it own analogue volume control I can use the master volume (after DSP). Still if I connected BT/radio via RCA that volume would be controlled by the device. Unless somehow I set everything up for max volume and use just the master to control everything. I have a lot more learning experimenting ahead!
This could be a deal breaker:- Will spotify ouput be routed through the DAC?
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Yes it will.
Thx GTX its got be worth pursuing then
The model of my unit is AE0273B on autopumpkin. Does anyone know for sure that BT/radio/DAB wouldn't be routed through a USB DAC? Would be interesting to know why?
Should I be looking to root this so I can have Viper4Android installed or Neutron player? I just want to unlock the potential for quality audio out, I dont need to tweek the signal or colour it I would like the output flat but a good PEQ app would be helpful.
Using a multimeter and oscilloscope I swept a pure 0db sine wave through the Alpine and the AC voltage from the pre-out only deviated by about 0.01vac from 30hz upto 10k then it climbed a bit more. Done same thing on the Pumpkin and highest unclipped Vac is 1.2vac at 1khz, at 30hz it dropped to 0.5v and same with higher frequencies, just like a sad smile lol. I want a DAC with a flat frequency response and a 4volt pre-out.
The floor noise / ground noise was made worse because I had to increase input gain cos of the crappy pre-outs.
I could do with some help customizing this for quality audio so if anyone's in the same boat and wants to trade ideas Im open to test things on my device and help out where I can.
what apps & DAC's work for you? digital or analogue cabling? What DSPs? Anything regarding SQ is interesting to me
I think Iv taken one step forward and 2 steps back but I'm committed now lol.
Just found and read through this thread - https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...io-problems-discussion-thread-t3657637/page11
Aluver seems to be able to fix this issue.
The pumpkin is still a great bit of kit for the price and to be fair I used the buggy built in amplifier app to adjust the eq to a V shape, pulling down 1khz (in the middle)as the lowest point (-6db) and as no surprise I think this has cured the problem this HU caused with the SQ. At low volume my target curve in REW appeared the same its only at high volume when the pre-amp output deviations are at their most extreme (sad smile) which is why it sounded too harsh.
Im really not sure if I would be able to tell the difference from a 100% digital system with high quality DAC and my old alpine setup but it does solve a few problems.
Still have excessive ground noise and amp pop when ignition turned off (never had before) so not sure if Ill be keeping this unit, so maybe up for UK sale in near future!
Really interesting thread, are you planning to buy the DAC finally ? It would be interesting to try a DAC, just to get rid of the ground noise for example.
Seeing your setup, if the source has crappy output you will hear it right away so your EQ modification is quite surprising that it improves the quality that much ! I'm still thinking about pulling the trigger on a model similar as you but very afraid of sound quality. Still trying to decide between Joying Intel or Xtrons PX5
Im going to give it a bit more time to see if I can get it to behave. Iv has this set up with the alpine for a couple of years and am always tweaking / improving so Im very aware of any change. If it hurts your ears at high volume then somethings wrong. The alpine's FR was completely flat and clips just over 2v, the pumpkin clips at different voltages (max 1.3v) but on this unit anything above vol 20 with pure tones will clip, its just a pain in the ass but if you always eq your car with high volume in mind for me that's where it matters. Dont rely on tone generator apps their 0db is not accurate I burnt the test wave files from JL audio website to CD as a reference then match it with Room EQs generator so can sweep any frequency.
Yeah Im gonna look for a DAC would be nice if you could control the DACs volume from steering wheel! And the auto switching rca's it doable or might as well go digital to dsp not sure yet its all a bit of a headache lol, but the units capabilities makes it worth trying. I will post any solutions on here if I find them but may be some time.
Im still trying to work out what this unit gives me that an alpine ilx-f903 (or similar) won't, apart from alot of spare change!
Im sure Iv read pros and cons for either them units but don't know enough about whats inside. I know mines a px5. I would be looking for something that can output everything through USB but not sure it exists.
ordered a minidsp usb streamer from amazon £60 delivered +van damme digi cable. First step see what it does out of the box then install 'USB Audio Driver Pro' app which will bypass the native android drivers??
I think this requires usb debugging mode to be enabled in developer options.
I found a switching module that might come in handy - https://www.tindie.com/products/Beni_Skate/automatic-spdif-opticalrca-audio-switch/#product-reviews
If anyone understands what Im trying to do and can foresee what needs to be done regarding operating system changes I would definately appreciate any advice as Iv no experience at all with the programming side of things i.e changing audio policies, etc...
I should be playing with this again at weekend if all the bits arrive
RoNeReR said:
from Lollipop there is dac native support on all devices, so it should work.
in joying headunit the radio and bluetooth not work with the dac, u can add small speaker for the bt, or connect another rca pair to the sound processor if the pumpkin also suffer this problem.
i recommend the hifimediy, be aware that spdif its digital connection so its really not important which dac u choose , the conversion from analog to digital will process on your c-dsp
u can see dac support here:
http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/technology/usb-audio-driver
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Hi RoNeReR. I see your usb dac outputs on analogue rca's. Do you still control the volume from the pumpkin?
Thx
Well as promised I will update this thread with my progress to get my system setup with the pumpkin.
I got my mini streamer but digi cable not arrived yet.
So I enabled developer options which was easy but couldn't find the menu anywhere afterwards, eventually downloaded an app call 'developer options' which does what is says on the tin. I found usb debugging mode was already on then went to 'usb configuration' and set to 'Audio'. Plugged in my ministream and was expecting the audio from spotify to go quiet as is should now be trying to route through the streamer but it didn't appear to change anything. I get a feeling when I eventually get the cable and connect to the dsp I will still have nothing. Anyone know what else I need to do to make audio goes through USB? ASIO drivers?
As I said Iv no experience with android OS but Im learning more and more things, so happy days!
mamba76 said:
Well as promised I will update this thread with my progress to get my system setup with the pumpkin.
I got my mini streamer but digi cable not arrived yet.
So I enabled developer options which was easy but couldn't find the menu anywhere afterwards, eventually downloaded an app call 'developer options' which does what is says on the tin. I found usb debugging mode was already on then went to 'usb configuration' and set to 'Audio'. Plugged in my ministream and was expecting the audio from spotify to go quiet as is should now be trying to route through the streamer but it didn't appear to change anything. I get a feeling when I eventually get the cable and connect to the dsp I will still have nothing. Anyone know what else I need to do to make audio goes through USB? ASIO drivers?
As I said Iv no experience with android OS but Im learning more and more things, so happy days!
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The problem is the software and hardware combination needs modifications (software) to generally work. We have this working on the joying Intel, and hopefully soon on the joying px5 (FYT based) units. Nother brands might not be possible depending on the original manufacturers programming.
If other users with your unit, maybe they have experience. Generally only working on the joying with Xposed properly.
gtxaspec said:
The problem is the software and hardware combination needs modifications (software) to generally work. We have this working on the joying Intel, and hopefully soon on the joying px5 (FYT based) units. Nother brands might not be possible depending on the original manufacturers programming.
If other users with your unit, maybe they have experience. Generally only working on the joying with Xposed properly.
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I see. I read a post where 'Aluver' says he got usb output working on app media and usb fobs but not on BT/radio/DAB (which went throught the MCU instead of DAC?) so assumed it was doable with a few changes to audio policy. Thinking about it not sure if the thread was referring to my HW/SW. Ill read the thread again but got lost in the jargen which I half understand.
So it looks like I'm just gonna have to wait till someone works out a fix.
So PX5 is the hardware and Oreo the software. Whats FYT based? Can this unit be rooted easily yet?
Thanks
mamba76 said:
I see. I read a post where 'Aluver' says he got usb output working on app media and usb fobs but not on BT/radio/DAB (which went throught the MCU instead of DAC?) so assumed it was doable with a few changes to audio policy. Thinking about it not sure if the thread was referring to my HW/SW. Ill read the thread again but got lost in the jargen which I half understand.
So it looks like I'm just gonna have to wait till someone works out a fix.
So PX5 is the hardware and Oreo the software. Whats FYT based? Can this unit be rooted easily yet?
Thanks
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Click to collapse
Are there any car android devices out there, chinese or otherwise, that allow for routing ALL audio digitally?
Any HW/SW setups know to work?
What about the latest 'NewsMy NR3001'?
mamba76 said:
I see. I read a post where 'Aluver' says he got usb output working on app media and usb fobs but not on BT/radio/DAB (which went throught the MCU instead of DAC?) so assumed it was doable with a few changes to audio policy. Thinking about it not sure if the thread was referring to my HW/SW. Ill read the thread again but got lost in the jargen which I half understand.
So it looks like I'm just gonna have to wait till someone works out a fix.
So PX5 is the hardware and Oreo the software. Whats FYT based? Can this unit be rooted easily yet?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYT is the OEM manufacturer for the system on module (SoM) that powers certain head units (that contains the CPU and memory etc)
Px5 is the CPU made by rockchips.
gtxaspec said:
FYT is the OEM manufacturer for the system on module (SoM) that powers certain head units (that contains the CPU and memory etc)
Px5 is the CPU made by rockchips.
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Whats the model of Joying intel you have working? I assume there is still the problem of bluetooth / voice & radio still not being routed through USB on this as well?
I connected my XP laptop to the ministreamer then to DSP (with vanne dam spdif coax) and played some flac files and it sounds great, noise floor is zero! Shame I cant find a device other than my phone to output a dam digital signal for everything!:crying:!
PS: Android 8 Oreo + all extras for sale... £200 anyone?? (comes with dabonwheels DAB external whip aerial, original in dustbin) Will drop in a B6 / B7 Audi A4 like factory does.
mamba76 said:
Whats the model of Joying intel you have working? I assume there is still the problem of bluetooth / voice & radio still not being routed through USB on this as well?
I connected my XP laptop to the ministreamer then to DSP (with vanne dam spdif coax) and played some flac files and it sounds great, noise floor is zero! Shame I cant find a device other than my phone to output a dam digital signal for everything!:crying:!
PS: Android 8 Oreo + all extras for sale... £200 anyone?? (comes with dabonwheels DAB external whip aerial, original in dustbin) Will drop in a B6 / B7 Audi A4 like factory does.
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I have the joying Intel that fits into the b7 a4 as well. On their site, and yeah no radio or Bluetooth yet via dsp.
mamba76 said:
Whats the model of Joying intel you have working? I assume there is still the problem of bluetooth / voice & radio still not being routed through USB on this as well?
I connected my XP laptop to the ministreamer then to DSP (with vanne dam spdif coax) and played some flac files and it sounds great, noise floor is zero! Shame I cant find a device other than my phone to output a dam digital signal for everything!:crying:!
PS: Android 8 Oreo + all extras for sale... £200 anyone?? (comes with dabonwheels DAB external whip aerial, original in dustbin) Will drop in a B6 / B7 Audi A4 like factory does.
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Oh too bad you can't even get the spotify output on the dac? Did you try another dac like hifimediy using optical cable?
gtxaspec said:
I have the joying Intel that fits into the b7 a4 as well. On their site, and yeah no radio or Bluetooth yet via dsp.
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Thanks for the info gtx.. You know a hell of a lot more than me on these things. If you could suggest a head unit thats a safe bet for what Im trying to do Id appreciate any links / model numbers. I bet there's more than one joying intel out there and dont want to make the same mistake twice
Hypnox99 said:
Oh too bad you can't even get the spotify output on the dac? Did you try another dac like hifimediy using optical cable?
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Hi. its not the dac thats the problem its that no one can get the output through the usb cable to start with. At least not yet but sure some very clever ppl on here will figure it out:fingers-crossed:
Hello all, as the title states, I've begun my journey down the rabbit hole looking to upgrade my audi system. The vehicle is a 2009 Merc E350 (W211 chassis) that I've had for 9 years now, I'm trying to refresh it's tech since I can't justify getting a new car. The factory H&K system sounds good enough that I've never been pushed to improve it. There are a few "requirements" if you will that I'm hoping I can sort out with the help of members here. I've done a fair amount of searching, but I've come up short on the specifics.
Here are the big things I'm hoping to achieve:
1. one of the 8.8" ultra-wide units. I tried searching for 8.8, but came up short in the results. I really like the look of these, they look more modern compared to the smaller screens that have buttons and volume knob to look like the old factory radio.
2. the ability to connect a USB to optical digital device with digital volume through the head unit control to connect to a DSP, this is to maintain digital signal and use the better quality DAC's in a DSP. Again, came up short searching. There was a lot of USB to analog, but I'm seeking optical. Analog would be a fall-back, I have a Audioquest Dragonfly that would be better than the built in DAC's as a last resort.
3. Cellular to play Pandora and Qobuz on the unit. I think this is pretty easy with a USB dongle, anybody have any issues using one of them with a GoogleFi data only SIM?
4. Full google maps navigation. Should be no problem based on what I see. Is the navigation volume control separate than the music volume like it is in Android Auto radios?
5. An interface that's much like an OEM would have or Android Auto to make media playback controls easy to access while in navigation. I know there is a lot of subjectivity here, maybe some custom ROM's would be the way to go?
Does anybody know what might fit the bill? There are a lot of 8.8" radios out there for the W211, but I can't find info covering the above. Has anybody else been in the search of getting really high quality audio out of one of these android units? How about a USB to digital interface that can tie into the MOST fiber system natively (to put off buying amps and just keep the factory amp and speakers)?
Hi all
First, I'm not English, I'm from France and I apologize for my poor English.
I recently purchased a Head unit for my Opel Antara car.
I think it's a Chinese one, I bought it on a french website.
Everything work but I have a problem with the sound, I will try to explain it.
There is no dsp in it and there is an eq but only the music app.
On the radio I have only treble, but on the music app, I hear some little bass. When I go the the eq and max the bass, I hear it but very bad quality.
I don't know how to make the bass work.
Before, an Android head unit was installed too but there was no bass to...
Wiring is good.
I post you a photo , maybe it can help you.
Thanks for your help.
Oh and the link where I bought it.
https://www.cdiscount.com/auto/gps-car-audio-electronique/autoradio-android-pour-opel-gps-7-pouces-ecran-ta/f-133164801-oss0787937334681.html
Does it have crossover settings?
lowridincrew said:
Does it have crossover settings?
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Nope, I just have in the setting to get more sound left or right, called fader I think
Virbolix said:
Nope, I just have in the setting to get more sound left or right, called fader I think
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Thats the main issue, you can't adjust the crossover on any of the speakers. I'm not quite sure if you could flash any operating system to it to give it a better eq and crossover but check your options based on your build
Notice the OP said:
"Before, an Android head unit was installed too but there was no bass to.."
So it is not a fault of the current head unit, there will be something that has been overlooked, maybe power switching for a bass amplifier or wiring for low frequency speakers. We'd need information about the rest of the system in the car to make any useful suggestions.
Mr.TT_NZ said:
Notice the OP said:
"Before, an Android head unit was installed too but there was no bass to.."
So it is not a fault of the current head unit, there will be something that has been overlooked, maybe power switching for a bass amplifier or wiring for low frequency speakers. We'd need information about the rest of the system in the car to make any useful suggestions.
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Click to collapse
What informations do you need?
My car model is an Opel Antara Cosmo Pack from 2007.
On the doors I have 1 big speaker (bass come from it) and one little where I hear treble.
I have one center on the dashboard too.
I don't know if there is an amplifier in the car already.
I link you the wires behind the head unit.
If needed I can take other photos
Thanks for your help.
Oh and the rear speakers don't work too
I'm not sure I can help more, but from what you've told me I'd be almost certain there will be an amplifier somewhere in the car and it is not getting either power or signals or both. hopefully someone here may know the model of car and share some knowledge of the systems that will be installed and thus how to make the necessary connections. Have you approached the Opel dealers to see if they have any documentation that could help? There may also be some tie-up with the car's CANBUS system.
On my FYT unit with an DSP, enabling "LOUD" (loudness management?) Made a tremendous difference, do you have such option hidden somewhere?
Kwen said:
On my FYT unit with an DSP, enabling "LOUD" (loudness management?) Made a tremendous difference, do you have such option hidden somewhere?
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Hi,
Only in the Music App, but when I activate it's very terrible bass
If your rear-speaker are not working, and you have a center speaker in the dash, there is a OEM amplifier in there, or has been fired by the OEM radio and the only connection which is missing is the power connection to the OEM amplifier.
You need to talk with some guy of a car-hifi shop. That is nothing we can support, if you even don´t know what is built in there.
By the way... the OEM speakers are just crap. Don´t expect any good sound with their paper membranes. First try to find the amplifier, the connections to it and may be you need a different CAN-Box.
That needs all to be verified by someone who is able to.
rigattoni said:
If your rear-speaker are not working, and you have a center speaker in the dash, there is a OEM amplifier in there, or has been fired by the OEM radio and the only connection which is missing is the power connection to the OEM amplifier.
You need to talk with some guy of a car-hifi shop. That is nothing we can support, if you even don´t know what is built in there.
By the way... the OEM speakers are just crap. Don´t expect any good sound with their paper membranes. First try to find the amplifier, the connections to it and may be you need a different CAN-Box.
That needs all to be verified by someone who is able to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh ok,thank you, I will do this.
I just did some Googling, and from that it does not sound like there's any amplifier in those cars so my first impression is probably incorrect, they mention 7 speakers but only 4*20 watt outputs on the factory unit so I think that will be front woofers *2, front tweeters *2 (probably just fed via capacitors from the woofers), rear full range speakers *2 and the centre front speaker will be just for vehicle warnings and sounds (like the direction flasher clicks, for example).
I'm tending now to incorrect connection of the speakers to the HU. OP did you just copy what was done with the other Android unit which you said also had the problem and was likely wrong, or did you go through and check each speaker's wiring individually and ensure correct connection? You should check each speaker except the tweeters by using a 1.5 volt cell and a pair of wires to identify correctly the wires from each one and which is the positive terminal of each so that you get correct phasing.
Who installed the previous Android unit? Were they familiar with audio installations?
If you were here I'd offer to look for you, but I think we're in very different countries.
Further thoughts, we may be making an incorrect assumption that the speakers are in good condition. They may have been damaged by someone or something previously.
Using the 1.5 volt cell as I mentioned, you should get a good rich sounding thump each time you make or break the connection. If you get only a thin scratchy sound or no sound at all then the speakers are damaged, or vaguely possible the wiring to them is damaged in some way, perhaps a short to ground.
Don't worry, you can't harm speakers with 1.5 volts, that is far less power than a 20 watt output gives them.