Database Users

[Q] Can someone explain the bootloader issue in plain english?

Can someone explain the whole bootloader issue to me in plain english? (The for dummies version)
If my current bootloader is unprotected
What can I do?
What should I watch out for?

Let's just say you drive a Ford car.
At the moment, you can buy original Ford parts, or you can go out and buy patent parts which are essentially doing the same job, but are not made by Ford (and usually cheaper). You can put any compatible spark plugs, oil, antifreeze in the car - it doesn't matter.
Now, say Ford introduce an "upgrade" - this upgrade changes your car so that now you can only put Ford parts on the car - you can only put Ford sanctioned plugs, oil, antifreeze etc in the car.
That's like a signed bootloader - essentially if you have signed bootloader you cannot change the firmware in your Tab to any other firmware that hasn't been digitally signed by Samsung.
Regards,
Dave

Here is my limited knowledge so you could get an idea
Every OS needs a bootlader so it will load the kernel and boot up the system. You could think the kernel like the engine and the bootloader like the ignition/starter.
There are firmwares that include checksum capability in the bootlader so it will check the kernel for signature. If the kernel is not signed/protected, it won't load.
In the tar file that you load/specify in the PDA box when flashing to a different firmware, it includes zImage. This is the kernel that bootloader will load.
You should be happy that yours is unsigned. Don't load any firmware that listed as signed/protected bootloader or you might stuck with these firmwares only.
In theory, you could flash a different bootloader (the unsigned one) so it won't check for signature in the kernel and you could freely flash other things but it's been awhile that I've messed w Linux and not sure why Chainfire has such an issue with it.

foxmeister said:
Let's just say you drive a Ford car.
At the moment, you can buy original Ford parts, or you can go out and buy patent parts which are essentially doing the same job, but are not made by Ford (and usually cheaper). You can put any compatible spark plugs, oil, antifreeze in the car - it doesn't matter.
Now, say Ford introduce an "upgrade" - this upgrade changes your car so that now you can only put Ford parts on the car - you can only put Ford sanctioned plugs, oil, antifreeze etc in the car.
That's like a signed bootloader - essentially if you have signed bootloader you cannot change the firmware in your Tab to any other firmware that hasn't been digitally signed by Samsung.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great explanation!...
So maybe you can help me with what I am looking for. When I flashed Roto's JME v4 (no signed bootloaders) on my Tab I ended up with no boot screen just a white line (rom works fine). For aesthetics and possibly trying to return to stock at&t (if warranty exchange is needed) how can I go about fixing the boot screen? Is this something I cannot do at the moment?
Can I go through this process here http://www.theandroidsoul.com/make-calls-with-att-galaxy-tab-full-guide/ although I've already flashed Roto's rom?

quattr0 said:
In theory, you could flash a different bootloader (the unsigned one) so it won't check for signature in the kernel and you could freely flash other things but it's been awhile that I've messed w Linux and not sure why Chainfire has such an issue with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The secondary bootloader provides download mode. A signed SBL won't let you flash an unsigned one. That's the issue.
We have a workaround now, though, which replaces the bootloaders again with unsigned ones. That by itself isn't that much of an issue once you have it working, but getting it to work / testing was the problem. Because if it doesn't work, you have a true brick.
All of this is documented in the thread, so not sure why you still think you can just flash an unsigned bootloader.

Ah must have missed that. Sorry & thanks for the expl.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

[Q] How (im)possible is it to brick the N4?

As long as you can get into fastboot mode, you haven't bricked your device
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Is this statement true?
I know it isn't impossible to brick your device to the point of no return. I've actually done it myself (huray!) with my Nexus S. It was declared dead even by AdamOutler himself, the maker of the Unbrickable Resurrector. After trying to unbrick it myself, I sent it to him. Apparently I screwed up the radio, a mistake which is impossible to recover from. Don't ask me how I did it... I did flash something before, but my phone worked fine for a while. Only then the battery drained really quickly. When it was dead and I plugged in the charger, it booted up fine, but the moment I started the browser my Nexus S died. Forever. RIP.
I guess it's no different with the N4. If you screw up the radio, you have a problem. Can somebody confirm this? And are there other ways to brick your phone to the point of no return?
I think it's kind of stupid that you are able to brick your phone. You can't brick a PC, can you? That's just impossible. You can ALWAYS completely reset everything. Well, not with Android apparently. I think it's weird that even with Nexus devices, there's still a way to brick it. I guess you need to be stupid like me to brick a Nexus device, but still... it shouldn't be possible.

Yes as long as bootloader mode is able to be started! You cannot brick. Just flash google stock factory images.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

Its because Android phones are dependant on the Bootloader, whereas a PC is dependant on the BIOS and CMOS. If you fail at flashing a BIOS then you brick the motherboard. So you technically can brick a PC.

Hah, I've bricked PC's with BIOS flash fails.
But as for the phone, as long as you can enter fastboot, you are able to recover.

Harry GT-S5830 said:
Its because Android phones are dependant on the Bootloader, whereas a PC is dependant on the BIOS and CMOS. If you fail at flashing a BIOS then you brick the motherboard. So you technically can brick a PC.
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Click to collapse
You can? Ah, then I rest my case.
I did screw up the radio though, and not the bootloader. I was able to get into download mode using the resurrector tool, only the screen stayed black.\
by the way, I don't think the Bootloader is the same as the BIOS. If it was, then you would technically be able to flash anything on your phone, even Windows. It isn't split up like the BIOS and Windows. Correct me if I'm talking nonesense by the way ;p.

You could think of it as the bootloader = the BIOS and Android = Windows

Androyed said:
[snip]
by the way, I don't think the Bootloader is the same as the BIOS. If it was, then you would technically be able to flash anything on your phone, even Windows. It isn't split up like the BIOS and Windows. Correct me if I'm talking nonesense by the way ;p.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You technically could flash anything on your phone, assuming you had the right bootloader and partition table and the right drivers. The issue is that the bootloader on an Android device is designed to boot (i.e., load into RAM ) a Linux kernel. It isn't designed to (and hence, won't) boot a Windows, or any other, kernel.

You could always delete your bootloader, thall brick your device pretty fast

efrant said:
You technically could flash anything on your phone, assuming you had the right bootloader and partition table and the right drivers. The issue is that the bootloader on an Android device is designed to boot (i.e., load into RAM ) a Linux kernel. It isn't designed to (and hence, won't) boot a Windows, or any other, kernel.
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Very true. For an example, Check out the HD2 phone and the various bootloaders available for it. I have booted Windows Mobile 6 and 7, Ubuntu, oh.. and Android on it. It was originally a WM6 phone. It also has the ability to change partition sizes, and has an sBoot partition so it can do a true dual boot. One from Nand memory and one from SD card with just a reboot.
I waiting to see if we get a way to flash unsigned bootloaders on Nexus 4 (or get a key).

I seem to recall a few devices being bricked in the few days after release. There was a problem with the faux kernel that caused the device to totally and irreparably brick if one overclocked (to 1.8Ghz I think) and then ran an antutu benchmark.
The few could not recover from the brick despite a lot of suggestions thrown around and some even from the dev of the kernel. Ultimately, they RMA'd.

Have a look at this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011328
Many users seen to have bricked their devices by overclocking their CPUs and running benchmarks.
Heck, I even see people talking about the red LED problem daily. Something's clearly not right...
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

The red led problem clearly appears too frequently... it really has to be cleared up what the heck is causing it.

Lownita said:
The red led problem clearly appears too frequently... it really has to be cleared up what the heck is causing it.
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Click to collapse
The red led bug is most likely hardware related.
Just think about it. Overclocking draws significantly more power. The nexus 4 isn't even able to supply the power for USB host, so it might be some kind of power failure.
Or simply a shorted circuit.

Nuu~ said:
The red led bug is most likely hardware related.
Just think about it. Overclocking draws significantly more power. The nexus 4 isn't even able to supply the power for USB host, so it might be some kind of power failure.
Or simply a shorted circuit.
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There is the point.
Bricking by software alone will be almost impossible. I have seen a few flashing bricks recovered already.
Bricking by damaging the hardware, well, that is probably unrecoverable. Over Clocking or O/C + Over-Heat is causing what seems to be permanent damage in some phones.

fastboot mode on nexus 4 says "secure boot: on" --- anyone knows what that means? afair i havent seen that on my old gnex and nex7.
and is it possible to use download mode to flash a new bootloader in case the old one is corrupted?

I don't think anyone has the QCOM_USB_DLD mode figure out yet and I don't think anyone knows what secure boot does either, I know originally people blamed it for custom recoveries being reverted, but that's just a script that's called on bootup.

molesarecoming said:
fastboot mode on nexus 4 says "secure boot: on" --- anyone knows what that means? afair i havent seen that on my old gnex and nex7.
and is it possible to use download mode to flash a new bootloader in case the old one is corrupted?
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I've seen that on my Nexus S... after I had bricked it completely ;p. I don't think it had anything to do with the brick though. It's something from HTC devices: http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile...on-htc-android-phones-with-unrevoked-forever/. At least I think so.
When I tried to repair my bricked Nexus S, I asked if it had something to do with secure: on. They didn't know what it was exactly, so maybe it isn't the same as s-on on HTC devices.

molesarecoming said:
fastboot mode on nexus 4 says "secure boot: on" --- anyone knows what that means? afair i havent seen that on my old gnex and nex7.
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Pure speculation on my part: I think that the "secure boot: on" relates to the boot chain of the Snapdragon SoC. When it's on, I think that it will not boot an unsigned bootloader, and hence you cannot boot the device. Similar to, but not quite the same as, S-ON for HTC devices as was mentioned above.
molesarecoming said:
and is it possible to use download mode to flash a new bootloader in case the old one is corrupted?
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Click to collapse
More speculation: I haven't had much time to look into it yet, but I'm guessing that you should be able to flash a .tot file (an LG "factory image" I think like the ones found here) while you are in download mode. I think it requires something like the LGNPST tool with the right .dll. This is my first LG device (and my first Snapdragon SoC), so I'm still in the reading/learning stages.

Bootloader implementation/S-ON on the M9+

Was wondering about it as whenever I think of Mediatek devices, I think of the likes of SP Flash Tool, scatter files and the like, and yet this has the usual HTC bootloader and failsafe stuff shoved into it. Was the SoC modified for the purpose, or did they just use a non-standard bootloader instead of the off-the-shelf stuff most firms (e.g. smaller startups and counterfeiters) would use?

PC recovery similarities to TWRP

What would be the PC equivalent of Custom Recovery software like TWRP?
Would it be something like Acronis TrueImage ?
Also, would it make sense to say that a locked bootloader in a phone (PS: Notice I won't say 'Android Device', because the bootloader comes into play BEFORE the Android OS) is the equivalent of having 'secure boot' enabled in UEFI in a Windows PC? Thereby implying that the process of disabling Secure Boot in UEFI in a PC is the same as unlocking the bootloader in phones?

BIG_BADASS said:
What would be the PC equivalent of Custom Recovery software like TWRP?
Would it be something like Acronis TrueImage ?
Also, would it make sense to say that a locked bootloader in a phone (PS: Notice I won't say 'Android Device', because the bootloader comes into play BEFORE the Android OS) is the equivalent of having 'secure boot' enabled in UEFI in a Windows PC? Thereby implying that the process of disabling Secure Boot in UEFI in a PC is the same as unlocking the bootloader in phones?
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I really don't think you get how phones work bro. Unlocking a bootloader can only be done by manufacturing or through more aggressive means when possible. The H812 still hasn't had its bootloader unlocked by lg and at this point probably never will
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

SpyderAByte said:
I really don't think you get how phones work bro. Unlocking a bootloader can only be done by manufacturing or through more aggressive means when possible. The H812 still hasn't had its bootloader unlocked by lg and at this point probably never will
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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That doesn't answer my question. I asked the theoretical side, not practical.
Before you do anything, you must understand the FULL boot sequence and structure of Smartphone with ARM chipset, and compare it to Intel x86 Chipset..... and know the relationships well... THEN only you can safely say "I know this" ... THEN only you can safely play around and tinker with the smart phones.....
I thought I knew alot.. but turns out I know NOTHING.... so I go back to square 1 and learn EVERYTHING from scratch again.....
Before I do anything, I must familiarize WHAT is TWRP.. You can say "TWRP is custom recovery", okay, 'WHAT IS CUSTOM RECOVERY' ? You must be able to clearly explain what it is, what parts of the boot sequence it affects.... what is the equivalent in an Intel x86 PC of TWRP or custom recovery????
WHat is a ROM? We all know ROM in smartphone world is more than just the operating system... So what other components does it replace besides the operating system???
We have to think like this and analyze EVERYTHING, all the relationships between all the entities.....
I am now learning about EMBEDDED LINUX ... and the boot sequence of it... as smartphone is just another version of embedded linux......
This is what I'm doing now... when I am familiar with EVERYTHING.... then I will tinker....

BIG_BADASS said:
That doesn't answer my question. I asked the theoretical side, not practical.
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Click to collapse
Secure boot on windows acts as a UEFI (modernized motherboard BIOS meant to work better and faster with x64 and newer systems)
Locker to prevent UEFI from booting into unsigned/unrecognized system images (as far as I know, anybody feel free to correct me)
Bootloaders on smartphones would be the equivalent of a UEFI for the arm architecture. Meant to guide the system into booting from a specified mount. Bootloaders are coded by the manufacturer, either locked or unlocked. Unlocked bootloaders provide a way for users to enter recovery mode and potentially flash unsigned/custom images. If the manufacturer decides to lock the bootloader, the only options are wait for a way to unlock from manufacturer or find a way to crack it if you have the know how
Some manufacturers use the same bootloader for all or most variants of one phone, or can use a different bootloader for each variety of a phone, choosing which bootloaders to unlock or leave locked
For example with the Lg G4, the international variant H815 I believe is unlocked, while the H812 is still to this day locked, while unfortunately their has not been enough interest in trying to reverse engineer or find a loophole if even possible

SpyderAByte said:
Secure boot on windows acts as a UEFI (modernized motherboard BIOS meant to work better and faster with x64 and newer systems)
Locker to prevent UEFI from booting into unsigned/unrecognized system images (as far as I know, anybody feel free to correct me)
Bootloaders on smartphones would be the equivalent of a UEFI for the arm architecture. Meant to guide the system into booting from a specified mount. Bootloaders are coded by the manufacturer, either locked or unlocked. Unlocked bootloaders provide a way for users to enter recovery mode and potentially flash unsigned/custom images. If the manufacturer decides to lock the bootloader, the only options are wait for a way to unlock from manufacturer or find a way to crack it if you have the know how
Some manufacturers use the same bootloader for all or most variants of one phone, or can use a different bootloader for each variety of a phone, choosing which bootloaders to unlock or leave locked
For example with the Lg G4, the international variant H815 I believe is unlocked, while the H812 is still to this day locked, while unfortunately their has not been enough interest in trying to reverse engineer or find a loophole if even possible
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Thank you bro... now we're getting somewhere....
So PCs also have a bootloader.... but the way I understand, "Bootloader" in the smartphone is a combination of BIOS and MBR in the pc world, right? It is all combined into one entity called "Bootloader"...
Also, the MBR usually has a Stage 1 bootloader, which points to a stage 2 bootloader, which is installed somewhere in the permanent memory (hard disk in PC).... but this structure is not the same in smartphone I believe?

The arm architecture is completely different than the x86 or x64 architectures.
As Asus and MSI and acer etc have their own bios,
Samsung, lg, HTC Huawei Google etc have their own bootloaders. Twrp for example is a custom open source bootloader that anybody can get the source and add to. Phone companies do not give out the source code for their bootloaders usually and it is in their own power to lock and unlock them
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

SpyderAByte said:
Maybe just get an unlocked international variant of your next phone and let the big boys do the work for you
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Yes, that would be the easy way around...
I have the H815 now which I got in exchange for H812... anyways.... if I didn't have it the hard way, I wouldn't learn anything..... If I had the unlockable H815 from day 1, I wouldn't be this curious... therefore I wouldn't learn.. I'd just be living in ignorance thinking I know everything there is to know .....

Why don't you start by finding the twrp out for the h815 and tinkering with it, making it your own. Try finding a stock ROM and tinkering with that building your own. Plenty of guides around the internet. Learn java and take flight bud
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

SpyderAByte said:
The arm architecture is completely different than the x86 or x64 architectures.
As Asus and MSI and acer etc have their own bios,
Samsung, lg, HTC Huawei Google etc have their own bootloaders. Twrp for example is a custom open source bootloader that anybody can get the source and add to. Phone companies do not give out the source code for their bootloaders usually and it is in their own power to lock and unlock them
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
SpyderAByte said:
The arm architecture is completely different than the x86 or x64 architectures.
As Asus and MSI and acer etc have their own bios,
Samsung, lg, HTC Huawei Google etc have their own bootloaders. Twrp for example is a custom open source bootloader that anybody can get the source and add to. Phone companies do not give out the source code for their bootloaders usually and it is in their own power to lock and unlock them
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Yes, in the x86 world they do have different motherboard architectures, hence different BIOS's ... but the rest of the boot sequence follows the same order......
So that brings me to my next question... why is it that we can hard brick a phone, but not a PC? I mean.. technically it is possible to brick a PC if you screw up a bios flash.... but that just leads me to believe a "ROM" in smartphone world actually consists of BIOS + OS ...
So that leads me to wonder.. what else has combined functionality? What is the BIOS equivalent in Android? I mean.. technically it is possible to brick a PC if you screw up a bios flash.... but that just leads me to believe a "ROM" in smartphone world actually consists of BIOS + OS ...
So that leads me to wonder.. what else has combined functionality? What is the BIOS equivalent in Android?

The bootloader partition/iso and the data/android partition/ROM are 2 different things
You can independently swap your recovery if it's unlocked and keep your data. Or you can independently change ROMs and keep your bootloader. You don't seem to understand this pretty basic concept
You can brick a phone flashing the bootloader incorrectly or by flashing the ROM incorrectly
Likewise on a PC if you flash the bios/UEFI incorrectly you can brick your motherboard, and corrupting your OS installation can cause issues
The reason you've bricked phones more than you've bricked computers - when was the last time you tried flashing a custom bios or UEFI? Or a version of Linux/windows that your bios won't allow
Computers are usually pretty plug and play so you can swap HDDs/ram/processors and simply upgrade needed drivers to works
Smartphones are greasy and closed source and the manufacturer usually wants it their way, that's why you see them blocking root access and custom roms
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

SpyderAByte said:
The bootloader partition/iso and the data/android partition/ROM are 2 different things
You can independently swap your recovery if it's unlocked and keep your data. Or you can independently change ROMs and keep your bootloader. You don't seem to understand this pretty basic concept
You can brick a phone flashing the bootloader incorrectly or by flashing the ROM incorrectly
Likewise on a PC if you flash the bios/UEFI incorrectly you can brick your motherboard, and corrupting your OS installation can cause issues
The reason you've bricked phones more than you've bricked computers - when was the last time you tried flashing a custom bios or UEFI? Or a version of Linux/windows that your bios won't allow
Computers are usually pretty plug and play so you can swap HDDs/ram/processors and simply upgrade needed drivers to works
Smartphones are greasy and closed source and the manufacturer usually wants it their way, that's why you see them blocking root access and custom roms
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
So basically, the ROM is more than just the operating system, no? Flashing a rom in smartphone is NOT exactly the same as installing Ubuntu or Debian in a PC, right? There's something else you're replacing, am I right?
Also.. the way I understand... Bootloader is the very first software that runs once you power on the smartphone? (equivalent of BIOS) ?

BIG_BADASS said:
So basically, the ROM is more than just the operating system, no?
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Click to collapse
The ROM is the operating system, the included apps and packages and any other information that android needs to run after the bootloader
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

SpyderAByte said:
The ROM is the operating system, the included apps and packages and any other information that android needs to run after the bootloader
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
So when you flash a rom, you're not replacing the original bootloader? Or BIOS?

No as I stated in my previous post. You can use your bootloader or a PC through fastboot to flash ROMs as long as your bootloader is unlocked
On a galaxy for instance you could first install twrp if possible leaving your stock touchWiz ROM perfectly intact but now you have twrp
Then later you can use twrp to install paranoid Android or CM for instance, replacing your stock touchWiz ROM, but leaving your newly installed twrp untouched
I used to have a galaxy s4 Canadian variant, and the bootloader was locked and still is to this day. The only way to flash a custom ROM was to bypass the stock bootloader using a method found by someone experienced with Samsung bootloaders (a rogue Samsung employee iirc)
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

SpyderAByte said:
Bootloaders on smartphones would be the equivalent of a UEFI for the arm architecture. Meant to guide the system into booting from a specified mount. Bootloaders are coded by the manufacturer, either locked or unlocked. Unlocked bootloaders provide a way for users to enter recovery mode and potentially flash unsigned/custom images. If the manufacturer decides to lock the bootloader, the only options are wait for a way to unlock from manufacturer or find a way to crack it if you have the know how
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Click to collapse
The final outcome is the same, yes, but bootloader and BIOS/UEFI are completely separate, right? X86 PCs have a bootloader called NTLDR and it comes into play after the BIOS has finished POST and given control to the MBR....
BIOS > MBR (contains stage 1 bootloader) > Stage 1 bootloader points to Stage 2 bootloader in the HDD
Or is the functionality of bootloader and bios combined into one unit in the smartphone?
---------- Post added at 07:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 AM ----------
SpyderAByte said:
No as I stated in my previous post. You can use your bootloader or a PC through fastboot to flash ROMs as long as your bootloader is unlocked
On a galaxy for instance you could first install twrp if possible leaving your stock touchWiz ROM perfectly intact but now you have twrp
Then later you can use twrp to install paranoid Android or CM for instance, replacing your stock touchWiz ROM, but leaving your newly installed twrp untouched
I used to have a galaxy s4 Canadian variant, and the bootloader was locked and still is to this day. The only way to flash a custom ROM was to bypass the stock bootloader using a method found by someone experienced with Samsung bootloaders (a rogue Samsung employee iirc)
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
So TWRP comes into play before the operating system is loaded, correct? Meaning if you flash a corrupt operating system, you can still format the drive, because TWRP is on a lower layer?
So you can think of TWRP as those Windows Recovery disks?

Do you understand how partitions work? (Not attacking, honest question)
Your bootloader would sit on one partition of the phone emmc(like a small solid state drive/kind of like an sd card chip)
So your partition table would look kind of like this
Emmc1 - /boot (bootloader tells android to boot into recovery, download, fastboot, or android rom
Emmc2 - /recovery (recovery partition. User interface of twrp for example)
Emmc3 - /download mode (used to flash zips)
Emmc4 - /data (android rom that you install
Emmc5 - / (the root folder of your phone, where your storage starts
If you remember getting a 16gb iPhone or iPod and wondering why you only got 9-11gb when you have 100% free space, it's because the emmc is rated for 16gb but the data/ROM uses 5-7gb
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

SpyderAByte said:
Do you understand how partitions work? (Not attacking, honest question)
Your bootloader would sit on one partition of the phone emmc(like a small solid state drive/kind of like an sd card chip)
So your partition table would look kind of like this
Emmc1 - /boot (bootloader tells android to boot into recovery, download, fastboot, or android rom
Emmc2 - /recovery (recovery partition. User interface of twrp for example)
Emmc3 - /download mode (used to flash zips)
Emmc4 - /data (android rom that you install
Emmc5 - / (the root folder of your phone, where your storage starts
If you remember getting a 16gb iPhone or iPod and wondering why you only got 9-11gb when you have 100% free space, it's because the emmc is rated for 16gb but the data/ROM uses 5-7gb
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Sorry man, I'm from the PC world.. this makes no sense to me.... please relate all the functionality to it's PC equivalent...
Also, what is the boot sequence of the smartphone? Does it have a BIOS? MBR? Hard Drive? RAM?
If smartphone doesn't have all these parts, then what part of the phone does the job of the BIOS, MBR, Hard drive, RAM, bootloader, etc?
---------- Post added at 07:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 AM ----------
Maybe my approach here is wrong, maybe I shouldn't try to relate everything 1 to 1 ?
---------- Post added at 07:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------
SpyderAByte said:
Do you understand how partitions work? (Not attacking, honest question)
Your bootloader would sit on one partition of the phone emmc(like a small solid state drive/kind of like an sd card chip)
So your partition table would look kind of like this
Emmc1 - /boot (bootloader tells android to boot into recovery, download, fastboot, or android rom
Emmc2 - /recovery (recovery partition. User interface of twrp for example)
Emmc3 - /download mode (used to flash zips)
Emmc4 - /data (android rom that you install
Emmc5 - / (the root folder of your phone, where your storage starts
If you remember getting a 16gb iPhone or iPod and wondering why you only got 9-11gb when you have 100% free space, it's because the emmc is rated for 16gb but the data/ROM uses 5-7gb
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, lets say you format the entire memory of the phone, and reinstall Android.... will it automatically create all these partitions?

Holy **** man you say you know computers but it's almost the same as Linux. Android uses Linux at its absolute core so alot of it is pretty close. Look up a healthy Linux partiton setup and compare to my half assed partition table above and you'll see it's almost identical.
A HDD, SSD, or a memory block (phone internals, usb drives, sd cards) all can have seperate "partitions" which are basically seperate simulated drives, and all have a master boot record telling the device where to start.
There is a boot partition on the memory block which holds the core bootloader files and tells the phone what to do first.
If you hold down the recovery button it will tell the phone to boot to the recovery partition. If you hold down the download buttons it will tell the phone to boot into the download partition. If you allow the phone to boot regularly it will tell the phone to boot to the android /system partition which is where the android operating system is held
I can't explain how this works compared to windows because windows does its own thing in regarding to booting and it is not in my spectrum
The paranoidAndroid.iso file system you would try to flash for example would hold the
/system(android os)
/Data (user data and apps)
/ Or /root (main read/write accessable storage for user)
/Root would require root access to be able to get into and from there you can access the /system and /data mountpoints to modify system files, without root access you are usually not even able to view these folders

SpyderAByte said:
Holy **** man you say you know computers but it's almost the same as Linux. Android uses Linux at its absolute core so alot of it is pretty close. Look up a healthy Linux partiton setup and compare to my half assed partition table above and you'll see it's almost identical.
A HDD, SSD, or a memory block (phone internals, usb drives, sd cards) all can have seperate "partitions" which are basically seperate simulated drives, and all have a master boot record telling the device where to start.
There is a boot partition on the memory block which holds the core bootloader files and tells the phone what to do first.
If you hold down the recovery button it will tell the phone to boot to the recovery partition. If you hold down the download buttons it will tell the phone to boot into the download partition. If you allow the phone to boot regularly it will tell the phone to boot to the android /system partition which is where the android operating system is held
I can't explain how this works compared to windows because windows does its own thing in regarding to booting and it is not in my spectrum
The paranoidAndroid.iso file system you would try to flash for example would hold the
/system(android os)
/Data (user data and apps)
/ Or /root (main read/write accessable storage for user)
/Root would require root access to be able to get into and from there you can access the /system and /data mountpoints to modify system files, without root access you are usually not even able to view these folders
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Click to collapse
Yes I know Linux... but there is a HUGE difference between Embedded Linux and GNU/Linux you run on PC.....

If you were to completely wipe the phones internal memory, formatting each seperate partition into one blank one. You would need to find a way to recreate the partition table, install the bootloader onto its proper partition
Then you would use the bootloader to either recreate the partitions for the android rom, OR the ROM could self unpack and create it's needed /system, /data, and /root partitions

I did a big dumb. Failed root

Howdy. Tried to root my OnePlus 8 Pro. First time trying such a thing... Having now bricked my phone into a boot loop, I'm pretty sure that the guide I followed missed an important step. It said to download the latest patch, extract it, then use magisk to patch it and flash it. I'm pretty sure that the part I missed was actually updating to that patch before flashing. So I have whatever latest patch that I didn't have the foresight to write down, but my original build was IN2025_11_C.33 . Am I boned completely and thoroughly or is there any hope of recovering? Thanks either way.

LOL, welcome. Wisely, you've chosen a phone that supports EDL, with known ROMs. EDL will allow you to reflash to factory, no matter how badly you've messed up, assuming you didn't brick the hardware (which, unfortunately, is actually possible with this phone- there's two different RAM voltages and you can flash something that writes the wrong one and literally fry the phone... sigh)
All the stuff you need is covered in other threads here, and in other OnePlus forums on XDA... too tired to summarize them all (sorry). Search for the MSM tool (I think the one you want is here but please double check) and how to use it. Happy flashing, and welcome to the best phone mfr to mod! (Note EDL requires a Qualcomm chipset, there are other OP phones that do NOT have them... so not EVERY phone is bailable-outable...)

SomeRandomGuy said:
LOL, welcome. Wisely, you've chosen a phone that supports EDL, with known ROMs. EDL will allow you to reflash to factory, no matter how badly you've messed up, assuming you didn't brick the hardware (which, unfortunately, is actually possible with this phone- there's two different RAM voltages and you can flash something that writes the wrong one and literally fry the phone... sigh)
All the stuff you need is covered in other threads here, and in other OnePlus forums on XDA... too tired to summarize them all (sorry). Search for the MSM tool (I think the one you want is here but please double check) and how to use it. Happy flashing, and welcome to the best phone mfr to mod! (Note EDL requires a Qualcomm chipset, there are other OP phones that do NOT have them... so not EVERY phone is bailable-outable...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks!

dimlu said:
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case you haven't sorted it yet - this is a great MSM guide which also links to the Windows drivers you need and the MSM tools for your device.
Good luck