I recently bought a used Huawei Nexus 6P on Swappa. It looks and works great, with one exception: When I quick-charged it (with its OEM quick charger) to 100%, AccuBattery reported:
Battery health: 27%
Estimated capacity: 940 mAh
Design capacity: 3,450 mAh
{From these numbers, it seems that Battery health = Estimated capacity / Design capacity}
By itself, that would make me think that it just needs a new battery. However, if after reaching 100% charge, I leave it plugged in, the "Estimated capacity" continues to rise for a period of time. (The charge stays at 100%, but the Battery health sometimes increases.) Once, the "Estimated capacity" rose to over 2,000 mAh before it stopped rising. This makes me think that the problem might be with the battery calibration, rather than with the battery itself.
If I use the phone until it shuts off, and then recharge it, the same thing happens again (although with different numbers).
How can I tell whether the problem is with the battery itself, the battery calibration, or the phone's charging system (on the motherboard?)?
To recalibrate the battery, should I stop charging it when it reaches 100%, or when its AccuBattery reported Estimated capacity stops rising, or ...?
Thanks.
Related
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
Hello!
I just received my new S7 edge and boy I love it. I have charged it only twice and now as it is 11 pm and my phone is left with just 17% battery, I need to charge it.
So I usually charged my old HTC One M7 overnight, not thinking about how it might ruin or damage the battery.
But how about the S7 edge? When does the adapter in the outlet know, when to stop charging?
The S7 supports fast charging, which I am using.
But with 6 hours of sleep, won't it over-charge overnight?
Since it's still sending small electrical pulses into the battery even though it's full.
Please help me!
Charging overnight shouldn't do damage. However, try to decrease use of fast charging. It creates more heat than normal charging, and heat exposure damages the battery.
You also want to charge your battery before it hits 40%. This is due to how lithium ion batteries work. Also, most recommendations say charge only to 80%.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
*
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
No harm in leaving it plugged in all night and charging to 100%. The phone controls the battery from being overcharged, not the charger. I've switched off fast charging on mine, as that can be hard on a battery over time and I have no need for it charge any faster than overnight.
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
Saridas said:
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
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No it won't. It just makes the battery last longer before it needs replacement. It's not going to affect how fast you drain your battery because that's dependent on your usage.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
What are your true battery capacity? Has anyone run the full battery charge cycle through mAh meter? My phone was in transit for a whopping 2.5 months. It arrived with 0% battery, fully drained. It charged OK, but battery seemed too weak. I did charge it couple of times, then after a full discharge (to 0%, and shut-off) I charged it to 100% through mAh meter, and it only showed that battery took in 2232 mAh instead of factory capacity of 3100 mAh. I'm afraid that the battery has really degraded while being at 0% in winter cold (mild but sub-zero temperatures here in Canada). Or is it just because it's new and will improve after several cycles? Not sure how accurate is the mAh meter, or whether it's the right way to test. I've also installed AccuBattery, will see what it reports, but I'm not optimistic. With another phone I'd replace the battery, but you need a heat gun to open this one, it's a huge mess with a chance to kill it... So any feedback on your batteries or tests? How can I really verify that the battery is within factory specs?
Drain the battery to 0%, then use a 5v/1a charger to charge the device. Verify with an app that the phone is craging at 5v/1a, then switch off device and measure exactly how long it takes to charge to 100%. Then use this equation
Q(mAh) = 1000 × E(Wh) / V(V)
simple version:
mah = 1000 x (5 x hours charging) / 5
Then we can establish true battery capacity
I have solved this issue. Turns out that with fast charging my USB meter was giving inaccurate results. I used another charger that was not engaging fast charging, then USB meter showed normal capacity, which was almost exactly 3100 mAh stated.
midirt said:
I have solved this issue. Turns out that with fast charging my USB meter was giving inaccurate results. I used another charger that was not engaging fast charging, then USB meter showed normal capacity, which was almost exactly 3100 mAh stated.
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How are you finding the battery life? Can it always get you thought a full day?
Yes. I'm not a very aggressive user. Occasional use gets me to about 40% to 60% by the end of the day. Most people will use phone more.
hi guys, as a heavy user as i am i have 6,5 hours of SOT, so it should be enough for a heavy day use.
---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------
i forget to mention im on the AOKP ROM
I have been using my phone since 13 July and have been using AccuBattery right from the start. Been charging my phone to 80% amd not to full. Yet the battery capacity is 92% right FROM THE START. I dont think my battery was already 10% degraded right from the start.
What is the stats for other people who are using AccuBattery on their OP5?
What may be causing the discrepancy? Kindly help.
I have the same. Charged from 1% to 100% and above (till charge current went to 0 mAh) and the capacity seems to be 3100 mAh instead of 3300 mAh.
Another thread about AccuBattery crap.
HI All,
I have a new moto g7 power which supports fast charging.
I want to prolong battery life and maintain the battery for as long as i can.
The instruction booklet says to charge it with the fast charger supplied only.
From my research it seems that li-lon batteries prefer top ups and to be kept between 40-80%
Also I never realized that first charge should be all the way to 100% not sure if I did this, have I harmed the battery if I did not ?
as far as I know, lithium likes to be between 85% and 15%. anything below 15% and above 85% is potentially bad for the battery, assuming 3.7v is 0% and 4.2v is 100%.