Database Users

[WARNING] HARD Bricking After Upgrading/Downgrading Then Taking OTA

EDITED - an XT1095 owner on the 60.16 bootloader from a 5.1 soak bricked when he downgraded to 4.4.4 then took the 5.0 OTA. Several Brazilian XT1097 owners have done the same on the 60.14 or 60.16 bootloader.
THERE IS NO REASON TO DOWNGRADE TO 4.4.4 AFTER TAKING THE 5.1 SOAK IF THE 5.0 STOCK IMAGES ARE AVAILABLE FOR YOUR DEVICE!!!! Just flash the 5.0 stock images instead (system, kernel, modems, baseband, recovery - but not bootloader (motoboot) or partition table (gpt)).
Quite a few posters on the Q&A forum have hard bricked by taking the 5.1 soak, then downgrading to 4.4.4 then taking the 5.0 OTA. And unfortunately, the files that are necessary to restore their bootloaders are not available.
Obviously, taking an OTA after downgrading is dangerous. I would only flash the firmware myself or use Motorola Device Manager to upgrade if you have downgraded in the past.
Update - a poster on reddit is claiming that they did in fact take the brazilian 5.1 soak OTA, then downgraded to the chilean 4.4.4 then took the chilean 5.0 OTA without bricking. If this is true (and I have no way of knowing if it is true or not), what it could mean is that the OTA updater scripts are supposed to have checks in them that when your bootloader is not the right version, they prevent a brick.
From all that is posted on the Q&A forum, it looks like the Brazilian 5.0 OTA updater script did not have adequate checks in it to prevent bricking. IOW, human error in writing the brazilian 5.0 OTA updater script.
None of us can know which OTA updater script will be properly written and which ones will be defective until people start bricking. My advice is that you don't take the chance, because even if the chilean 5.0 OTA updater script was properly written, the brazilian one was not. Who knows what others were defective.
I would not take the chance myself (and I have MotoCare so it would only be $39 for me to get a new device if I brick) and don't see why anyone would. The Brazilians whose devices were bricked by the 5.0 OTA updater script are being denied warranty service for their devices due to having rooted in the past. They can tell they rooted in the past by the qe (root checker).
There is nothing to be gained by doing this and clearly at least one 5.0 OTA updater script does not prevent bricks if you have previously updated to the 5.1 soak.

I've flashed the the soak and down graded twice in the past couple of months. What is happening to cause hard bricks?

The bricks are caused when doing OTA after a downgrade. Not when flashing.
Sent from my XT1095

eqjunkie829 said:
I've flashed the the soak and down graded twice in the past couple of months. What is happening to cause hard bricks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It happens when they downgrade to 4.4.4 then take the 5.0 OTA as stated in the OP.

AGISCI said:
The bricks are caused when doing OTA after a downgrade. Not when flashing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, so I would never take an OTA after downgrading - I would only flash the firmware or use MDM (which is the same as flashing but has checks in it).

,,,

wolfu11 said:
There has to be a reason some of us can downgrade and take the OTA without issues.
Maybe part of the problem is people trying it with a modified software status ?
I've gone back and forth a few times on my 1095 and the one thing I notice is my software status always says official.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I responded in the other thread.
wolfu11 said:
There has to be a reason some of us can downgrade and take the OTA without issues.
Maybe part of the problem is people trying it with a modified software status ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue is with taking the 5.1 soak, downgrading to 4.4.4 then taking the 5.0 OTA. The OTAs are supposed to fail if your system and recovery are not stock. I am sure the issue is taking the 5.0 update with the 5.1 bootloader and partition table - the OTA updater script does not adequately protect you from a hard brick when you have a higher version BL and PT than the system/recovery version you are running.
You simply cannot downgrade the bootloader despite what some people are saying here - it doesn't happen. Neither fastboot nor mfastboot will downgrade your bootloader. If people were on 5.0 system and then went back to 4.4.4 system and they are still on the 4.4.4 bootloader, then it is because they never successfully flashed the 5.0 bootloader. If they had successfully flashed the 5.0 bootloader, their bootloader would not flash back to the 4.4.4 bootloader using either fastboot or mfastboot.
What is going on with the OTAs that I have seen is that once you upgrade to 5.1 via the soak OTA, you flash back to 4.4.4, which will flash your system/kernel/ramdisk/modems/baseband/recovery back to 4.4.4 but not your bootloader or partition table. Then when they take the 5.0 OTA, which is a patch, the OTA updater script is trying to patch the 5.1 bootloader and partition table as if they were the 4.4.4. This should never happen - it is totally a Motorola mistake. The 5.0 updater script should detect that the person is on a different version bootloader and partition table than 4.4.4 and it should fail rather than hard brick the phone. But it doesn't.
It is infuriating that these people are hard bricking due to Motorola's bad coding and they are being denied warranty service due to having rooted. Root has nothing to do with it - the OTA updater scripts should be coded to fail if the person is on the wrong bootloader and partition table.
wolfu11 said:
The one thing I notice is my software status always says official.
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Click to collapse
Your qe however will show you have rooted in the past if you have ever rooted before.

[,,,

wolfu11 said:
Okay but when I've down graded before and after I sign into kitkat I get a message in the status bar saying to downgrade the firmware I click okay and it reboots. What is that downgrading?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not the bootloader and partition table. I explained that in my other thread.

,,,

wolfu11 said:
That doesn't answer the question, which was what does it downgrade? Anyone know ?
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Click to collapse
Yeah, it does - I answered your question in my other thread multiple times. Just read the thread.

JulesJam said:
Yeah, it does - I answered your question in my other thread multiple times. Just read the thread.
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Click to collapse
Actually you didn't nor did anyone else, I'll just downgrade again and see what that Motorola firmware thing is all about.
No big deal since my phone doesn't seem to brick anyway.

wolfu11 said:
Actually you didn't nor did anyone else,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I did, but I am not repeating it b/c I am tired of spoonfeeding people who don't know basic things yet want to argue with me. You can read the thread or don't. No sweat off of my back either way.
wolfu11 said:
No big deal since my phone doesn't seem to brick anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because you aren't downgrading your BL or PT, lol!
Anyhow, please stop cluttering this thread. I suggest you read and learn what you are flashing then you will know. And please don't encourage other people to do dangerous things with their device when you don't even know what it is that you did with yours.

,,,

wolfu11 said:
Was just curious if you actually downgraded yourself
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Click to collapse
Why would I do something stupid?
wolfu11 said:
or was going by hearsay.
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Click to collapse
OK, you don't know what hearsay is. It is a rule of evidence. It has nothing at all to do with anything other than what is admissible evidence in a court of law. Completely irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
But if what you are trying to say is that I haven't done it myself so how could I possibly know - well I haven't thrown my body in front of a speeding train before but I know if I do, the chances are high I will die, lol! No, I don't have to brick my phone myself to know what could cause a brick.
I simply do not believe that all of the people on the Q&A forum who are begging for the blankflash files to be released are liars and/or making up false bricking stories out of boredom. I believe them when they say they bricked their devices and are desperate for some help.
wolfu11 said:
I won't clutter your thread any longer
Peace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.

JulesJam said:
Why would I do something stupid?
OK, you don't know what hearsay is. It is a rule of evidence. It has nothing at all to do with anything other than what is admissible evidence in a court of law. Completely irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
But if what you are trying to say is that I haven't done it myself so how could I possibly know - well I haven't thrown my body in front of a speeding train before but I know if I do, the chances are high I will die, lol! No, I don't have to brick my phone myself to know what could cause a brick.
I simply do not believe that all of the people on the Q&A forum who are begging for the blankflash files to be released are liars and/or making up false bricking stories out of boredom. I believe them when they say they bricked their devices and are desperate for some help.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That clears up a lot .
Thanks

FYI - a poster on reddit is claiming that they did in fact take the brazilian 5.1 soak OTA, then downgraded to the chilean 4.4.4 then took the chilean 5.0 OTA without bricking. If this is true (and I have no way of knowing if it is true or not), what it could mean is that the OTA updater scripts are supposed to have checks in them that when your bootloader is not the right version, they prevent a brick.
From all that is posted on the Q&A forum, it looks like the Brazilian 5.0 OTA updater script did not have adequate checks in it to prevent bricking. IOW, human error in writing the brazilian 5.0 OTA updater script.
None of us can know which OTA updater script will be properly written and which ones will be defective until people start bricking. My advice is that you don't take the chance, because even if the chilean 5.0 OTA updater script was properly written, the brazilian one was not. Who knows what others were defective.
I am not taking the chance myself (and I have MotoCare so it would only be $39 for me to get a new device if I brick) and don't see why anyone would. The Brazilians whose devices were bricked by the 5.0 OTA updater script are being denied warranty service for their devices due to having rooted in the past. They can tell they rooted in the past by the qe (root checker).
There is nothing to be gained by doing this and clearly at least one 5.0 OTA updater script does not prevent bricks if you have previously updated to the 5.1 soak.

Heads up peeps - the XT1095 5.1 soak OTA updater script does not have adequate checks in it to prevent a hard brick if you have downgraded and then attempt to upgrade again.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=60941697&postcount=132
So this is just like the Brazilian XT1097 5.0 OTA.

Please read the edit to the OP!!!

This happened to me and I'm so frocking pissed I didn't see this thread beforehand!! Does anyone know if a JTAG service could fix this or how Mich Motorola would charge to repair?

ASUS cancelled 2.19.40.18 OTA

guys
http://www.asus.com/zentalk/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=14836&pid=107979
asus said they cancelled this update due to unstable update...
1st i dont know what is unstable in this version[same as previous and new bug of call screen animation
2nd lol which update came without new bugs?
3rd they removed after they heard about unlocking bootloader..something fishy right :laugh:

they will probably patch the unlock method with the next update, gonna unlock the bootloader before updating to next update.
Sent from my ASUS_Z008D using Tapatalk

luisoman2000 said:
they will probably patch the unlock method with the next update, gonna unlock the bootloader before updating to next update.
Sent from my ASUS_Z008D using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya same here..but what they will do to unlocked phones/??

ansebovi said:
ya same here..but what they will do to unlocked phones/??
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Click to collapse
Maybe there just will be a check and it will abort if the BL is unlocked
But it should be easy to adapt these OTA updates to unlocked devices

ansebovi said:
ya same here..but what they will do to unlocked phones/??
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Click to collapse
Nothing they can do. As long as you don't flash an OTA or full stock build. They may have a way to patch it in their droidboot.

ansebovi said:
guys
3rd they removed after they heard about unlocking bootloader..something fishy right :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my first guess as well

TheSSJ said:
Maybe there just will be a check and it will abort if the BL is unlocked
But it should be easy to adapt these OTA updates to unlocked devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no i am asking about bootloader[can they lock it somehow if we flash next ota]
Harfainx said:
Nothing they can do. As long as you don't flash an OTA or full stock build. They may have a way to patch it in their droidboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so how can we update from here after ??? need to modified by someone for flashing ???
jaysus145 said:
That was my first guess as well
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Click to collapse
ya my 1st thought too,, haha

ansebovi said:
so how can we update from here after ??? need to modified by someone for flashing ???
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Click to collapse
That's how it works with all custom work. Once you're off stock, you're going to have to wait for someone to post a safe update/install.
Rushing in and taking an OTA is a very common way of breaking your build. Like what we see with running an OTA while rooted. Any number of problems can come up.
They could patch any number of things that would give you a very bad day.
With the support we have here though, we'll probably have flashable, safe OTA zips within a few hours of an OTA being captured/downloaded.

Harfainx said:
That's how it works with all custom work. Once you're off stock, you're going to have to wait for someone to post a safe update/install.
Rushing in and taking an OTA is a very common way of breaking your build. Like what we see with running an OTA while rooted. Any number of problems can come up.
They could patch any number of things that would give you a very bad day.
With the support we have here though, we'll probably have flashable, safe OTA zips within a few hours of an OTA being captured/downloaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i am from sony device..they release main update of android..and 1 bug fix,thats all...so we dont care..and no need to worry about relocking issues..
this is the first asus device...man they releasing update for every 10days..i thought we could apply just like that..but since they didnt gave unlocked bootloader tool ,i got these doubt..
and thanks for info..
so i must wait for zips which is modified for unlocked bootloader[if they trying to relock]

I honestly doubt they're going to find a way to relock it with an update, but who knows what voodoo they may come up with.
Either way, we'll grab the updates and get them ready to be flashed quickly. It's a simple process.

I highly doubt he will do anything regarding unlocking/locking bootloader. because:
1. last year they released their official tool to unlock zenfone 4,5,6 bootloader after 3-4 months of release.
2. This year when they launched the zf2 in US they hold contest and developer events via xda. Now xda is a place where no one keeps their bootloader locked. so they knew exactly where they are releasing and advertising the product.
So I dont think they would even bother about this bootloader . Maybe it is an unstable build in terms of their quality test.

Dang, and my 551 (2/16GB) is still in transit.
Was browsing the forum and this thread - has 2.19 been captured and saved somewhere else, or was everyone just downloading off ASUS servers for this OTA (when forced)?
I don't know if I would want 2.19 yet. Maybe to keep on my PC until the right time. That is, if 2.20 comes out and the BL hole is plugged, and those who were on 2.19 (and took advantage of the bootloader unlocking) still got the update successfully - if either of those two outcomes are false, I wouldn't use it.

joel.maxuel said:
Dang, and my 551 (2/16GB) is still in transit.
Was browsing the forum and this thread - has 2.19 been captured and saved somewhere else, or was everyone just downloading off ASUS servers for this OTA (when forced)?
I don't know if I would want 2.19 yet. Maybe to keep on my PC until the right time. That is, if 2.20 comes out and the BL hole is plugged, and those who were on 2.19 (and took advantage of the bootloader unlocking) still got the update successfully - if either of those two outcomes are false, I wouldn't use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everthings here http://forum.xda-developers.com/zenfone2/general/ota-links-stock-rom-t3093999

android is open source. and roms are not illegal. so why bother? i don't think asus is interested on ours bootloader plus, other zenfone's are already unlocked

joel.maxuel said:
Dang, and my 551 (2/16GB) is still in transit.
Was browsing the forum and this thread - has 2.19 been captured and saved somewhere else, or was everyone just downloading off ASUS servers for this OTA (when forced)?
I don't know if I would want 2.19 yet. Maybe to keep on my PC until the right time. That is, if 2.20 comes out and the BL hole is plugged, and those who were on 2.19 (and took advantage of the bootloader unlocking) still got the update successfully - if either of those two outcomes are false, I wouldn't use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if your phone gets here on a newer version (it won't), you could always downgrade everything and unlock from there. =)
Shakalaka has backups of everything going back to like version 2.12 or 2.13.

MatteXperiaU said:
android is open source. and roms are not illegal. so why bother? i don't think asus is interested on ours bootloader plus, other zenfone's are already unlocked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem is they can't support any ROM that isn't official on the zenfone. They'll pass you off. Like most manufacturers.

These are just official update links from Asus. Not backups. Asus can shut those down at any point. Not saying they will.
See here for pre-rooted ROM backups:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/zenfone2/orig-development/rom-pre-root-img-t3079590

one more doubt..
i think 2.17 is stable build from asus without the android os drinking the battery
now i have unlocked the bootloader ,can i reflash the 2.17[asking since it doesnt have the things which enabled to unlock bootloader] ...or once unlocked,we can do anything like other brands phone?

damian5000 said:
These are just official update links from Asus. Not backups. Asus can shut those down at any point. Not saying they will.
See here for pre-rooted ROM backups:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/zenfone2/orig-development/rom-pre-root-img-t3079590
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I downloaded the appropriate OTA the other night, so if ASUS pulls the file, I still have it and can share it on Dropbox and/or Copy.
I get the phone today! So hopefully tonight I get the OTA up to 2.18 and then wait to see what upcoming 2.20 has to offer. If we can still unlock the BL with 2.20, I will let that OTA happen. Similarly if we find out that those who unlocked their bootloaders can't take the update (at that point I will cry a little, if there is no official way to unlock BL released with the update ).
If both scenarios above are false, then I will apply my downloaded 2.19, unlock the bootloader, then accept 2.20.
Best one could do eh?
---------- Post added at 07:24 ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 ----------
ansebovi said:
one more doubt..
i think 2.17 is stable build from asus without the android os drinking the battery
now i have unlocked the bootloader ,can i reflash the 2.17[asking since it doesnt have the things which enabled to unlock bootloader] ...or once unlocked,we can do anything like other brands phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cannot imagine it would re-lock the bootloader. Should be able to downgrade, as long as you use the whole image and not just the OTA zip.
Now you got me wondering....

joel.maxuel said:
I cannot imagine it would re-lock the bootloader. Should be able to downgrade, as long as you use the whole image and not just the OTA zip.
Now you got me wondering....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no i didnt mean it will relock,..
but the unlocked needed some file right..it modifies something right? ...and it is not present in old things..so can old fw run on unlocked bootloader? [or would it get bootloop or damage bootloader]

Should I upgrade to Marshmallow?

When the time comes for Verizon to push the Marshmallow update, do I take it? I would like to eventually root/rom my device.
Would this update potentially break any vulnerabilities in the bootloader that may be present in lollipop?

You should already know this answer...no do not take the update

Michaelmansour1997 said:
You should already know this answer...no do not take the update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I figured, thanks!

We can't root the phone because the factory bootloader is locked, that has nothing to do with the OS version.

mjones73 said:
We can't root the phone because the factory bootloader is locked, that has nothing to do with the OS version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it may be possible if either Motorola or Verizon release a tool to unlock it?
It wouldn't need a vulnerability then, would it?
The reason why I ask is an update to the LG g3 (my friends device) broke the ability to root it (unfortunately he updated before it could be rooted), and I figured it was a common thing throughout Verizon devices.

I highly doubt Verizon or Motorola will unlock it. Someone will have to find an exploit, nothing has been reported so far. The updates for the G3 most likely updated the firmware on the phone and patched whatever exploit they were using to crack the bootloader. With no exploit on the DT2 yet, there's nothing to patch.

if you hope someone will find a exploit to root this phone, dont upgrade. root exploits are usually found on older firmware, so if plan to wait, dont upgrade.

Fastboot ROM?

Can someone post the links for the latest fastboot ROMs for potter? I've been looking for them for two days and I couldn't find them. It'd be nice if someone could post full fastboot ROMs of all variants or if there's already a thread in here, kindly let me know. I'm looking for the fastboot ROM for Indian variant and yes I have looked a free threads here.

psychopac said:
Can someone post the links for the latest fastboot ROMs for potter? I've been looking for them for two days and I couldn't find them. It'd be nice if someone could post full fastboot ROMs of all variants or if there's already a thread in here, kindly let me know. I'm looking for the fastboot ROM for Indian variant and yes I have looked a free threads here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't have it... All Moto firmware is leaked, they don't just give it away, and we might get it a few weeks after the OTA comes out, months, or sometimes never, we don't know.
If/when we get it, I'm sure it I'll be posted here and at http://firmware.center

acejavelin said:
We don't have it... All Moto firmware is leaked, they don't just give it away, and we might get it a few weeks after the OTA comes out, months, or sometimes never, we don't know.
If/when we get it, I'm sure it I'll be posted here and at http://firmware.center
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if I update to the latest version and something goes wrong and I flash the older build, will everything be fine? I heard that downgrading causes problems in Motos. Is that true?

psychopac said:
So if I update to the latest version and something goes wrong and I flash the older build, will everything be fine? I heard that downgrading causes problems in Motos. Is that true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not going to lie, it is true in some cases... we know that you cannot downgrade the bootloader, no matter what you do, so sometimes if you downgrade everything else but gpt.bin and bootloader.img (two things that can't be downgraded, partition table and bootloader), it has been known to cause bricking in some devices if you take an OTA later, and sometimes it doesn't.
For example, the Moto X Style/Pure Edition you could upgrade and downgrade on a whim between Lollipop and Marshmallow with not problem, take OTA's or whatever and it was fine... Then along came Nougat... if you downgraded from Nougat to Marshmallow, then took the Nougat OTA again it was instant hard brick (completely unrecoverable). My point is we don't know until someone tries it... :/

acejavelin said:
I am not going to lie, it is true in some cases... we know that you cannot downgrade the bootloader, no matter what you do, so sometimes if you downgrade everything else but gpt.bin and bootloader.img (two things that can't be downgraded, partition table and bootloader), it has been known to cause bricking in some devices if you take an OTA later, and sometimes it doesn't.
For example, the Moto X Style/Pure Edition you could upgrade and downgrade on a whim between Lollipop and Marshmallow with not problem, take OTA's or whatever and it was fine... Then along came Nougat... if you downgraded from Nougat to Marshmallow, then took the Nougat OTA again it was instant hard brick (completely unrecoverable). My point is we don't know until someone tries it... :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a bummer. Anyways I hope that no one bricks their phone

Question: Unlock the bootloader before or after upgrading to Oreo 8.1

We have a new G5 Plus (running stock Nougat) that is prompting for the OTA update to Oreo.
Question: Will the bootloader be unlockable after the update to Oreo?
I intend to unlock the bootloader, but sometimes the ability to unlock it is blocked after an update like this. Sometimes, unlocking the BL before an update blocks the update.

DECloyd said:
We have a new G5 Plus (running stock Nougat) that is prompting for the OTA update to Oreo.
Question: Will the bootloader be unlockable after the update to Oreo?
I intend to unlock the bootloader, but sometimes the ability to unlock it is blocked after an update like this. Sometimes, unlocking the BL before an update blocks the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can unlock the bootloader in oreo also.

riyan65 said:
You can unlock the bootloader in oreo also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great! Thanks!
BTW, in your opinion, do you think that the G5 Plus will get updates past Oreo?
That might seem like an unrelated question, but I'm looking at the idea of adding some audio mods that require root and don't mind waiting until the official updates have settled down. Then I'll unlock, root, etc.

DECloyd said:
Great! Thanks!
BTW, in your opinion, do you think that the G5 Plus will get updates past Oreo?
That might seem like an unrelated question, but I'm looking at the idea of adding some audio mods that require root and don't mind waiting until the official updates have settled down. Then I'll unlock, root, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only via flashed custom ROMs will system software past Oreo exist on the G5 Plus. G series phones get slated for one major system update.

It would be better if you atleast get the unlock code while on nougat. There are issue in Oreo. Some people were having issues where the unlock data provided by the phone was said to be incomplete when pasti g it on Moto's site in order to get the unlock code.

debdeep98 said:
It would be better if you atleast get the unlock code while on nougat. There are issue in Oreo. Some people were having issues where the unlock data provided by the phone was said to be incomplete when pasti g it on Moto's site in order to get the unlock code.
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Click to collapse
Thanks! I will do that.

DECloyd said:
Thanks! I will do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is done. Thank you!

DECloyd said:
It is done. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great:good: