Related
Hello all,
Its been a long time no speak on this forum for a while, I have finally made the jump from WM (HTC LEO/SE X1) to Android on a Dell Streak. Admittedly I am still waiting on a stable o2 sanctioned version of Froyo to put SENSE UI on!
My question here relates to Firesheep, an add on for Firefox that allows packet capture on public WiFi networks. I was wondering if anyone could port this application to android as a stand alone App, or if anything else similar had been developed?
I hope someone can give me an answer at least to the feasibility of this request.
+1
I too would love to know hehe
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
It would require drivers for the wireless chipset in the phone to be put in promiscious/monitor mode to capture packets, as far as I know, neither is possible, unfortunately.
timekeeper said:
It would require drivers for the wireless chipset in the phone to be put in promiscious/monitor mode to capture packets, as far as I know, neither is possible, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't it run in firefox mobile
monitor mode in galaxy S
There is an app available in market called pixie who get the promiscuous mode for the wifi interface. I'm able to capture packets in Samsung Galaxy S (GT-I9000) with the app installed.
Now we're waiting for firesheep realease for android... it's impossible to install the XPI in Firefox mobile beta...
Yeah, I tried porting the XPI over to firefox mobile, but it wont work without a packet capture utility, like WinPcap, which is used with the normal Firefox Win version.
I would be definately interested in seeing where this goes though...
vit_mar said:
Yeah, I tried porting the XPI over to firefox mobile, but it wont work without a packet capture utility, like WinPcap, which is used with the normal Firefox Win version.
I would be definately interested in seeing where this goes though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is also working in OSX so I guess libpcap should be enough to use it. By reading this http://seclists.org/tcpdump/2010/q1/98 it seems that there is support for Android. However you will need root access to use it.
This thread, discussing Shark for Root app, refers to a lot of functions that firesheep uses: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=725692
Perhaps using libpcap/tcpdump (as janfsd suggested), we can port this over. Root is a must though, true...
any updates?
i need this for my N1
Tanks
Bumping for an update on this project!
Found this thread in google. Try http://faceniff.ponury.net/ I've wrote it yesterday I wrote it to sniff only facebook accounts but it can be easily modified to other services.
Hello!!
This is awesome! wooow! I don't mean the fact that you can steal web session profiles,
but the fact that an Android application can open an interface e.g. WIFI and realise sniffing -
network monitoring without being run as root or system. To do so, an application should be
signed with the platform's key : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6010796/run-secure-api-calls-as-root-android
How is this possible?? I am really wondering about that. Some time ago I tried to port
jNetPcap, so as to use it in an Android application for monitoring the WIFI. I successfully
ported it but I couldn't read the list of Android interfaces from its API and realise web
monitoring.. (see here for details: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5966603/jnetpcap-on-android-problem-with-findalldevs-method,
http://jnetpcap.com/node/792)
I am really wondering how faceniff faces this problem??
e.g. Shark for Android runs an instance of libpcap in the background and derives the
appropriate information from the pcap traces..
What faceniff do to get the information it wants, e.g. the web sessions?? I am
really curious about that.. Any ideas?
faceniff runs as root....
Yes, but how is it possible to make an application that runs as root?
There is no Android permission you can use in Android manifest to give you
such privileges.. Even other Android applications that run only in rooted phones
cannot open an interface an capture traffic, and for this reason they run in the
background a tcpdump and process the pcap traces it produces (e.g. Shark for
Android).
is anybody here that knows how faceniff can capture packets??
I know how it works because I wrote it
It has a binary file which lies in /data/data/net.ponury.faceniff/
Then the java app executes "su" (to gain root permissions) and executes that binary file. And it grabs results from the binary showing them on the screen. Hope it helps.
Hey guys/gals, the folks over at android forums sent me to bug you guys about my endeavor, so if i am annoying, blame them . Also loved the registration video and there were no results of forum posts when it came to robotics.
"Just picked up my new Acer A500 yesterday and have been playing with it just a little bit. It has the unupdated 3.1 OS (honeycomb I THINK). So i have a few questions but first let me explain my purpose for the tab and my background.
My purpose for the tablet is for my Masters project, to interface it to a IOIO (pronounced YOYO) controller board in for motor and senor control. The IOIO is an android driven device hence an android tab. Also the tab is going to the the brains and face of a telepressence robot i am building. My background in mobile devices is windows mobile (forget the version) which i did not mod very much and my IPHONE 3GS which i have jailbroken and modded for my amusement. I also have a background in C# and VHDL but not so much in mobile application development (which i suspect should not be too difficult to pick up)
Now on to some questions. I plan to root this just to have root access but is there any other benefit such as an underground app store. My favorite is book access such as stanza. Can i host a web server on the tab or will i have to remote into it using some other utility? And i thought i had another question but i think that will do for now. Anyways thanks for any help and i look forward to future interaction."
SD
Regarding root, some apps need it. For instance, the advanced features of Titanium Backup or AdFree. As for setting a server, I am using File Expert, a file manager with some cool options (including root access) that also allows http and ftp sharing of files to and from the tablet. I am sure there are other apps with similar functionality.
superdave14 said:
I plan to root this just to have root access but is there any other benefit such as an underground app store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't expect anyone to answer that with a link, right? You can install whatever apk you want with or without root on your own risk. The benefits of rooting have nothing to do with stealing of applications. You simply get r/w access to the filesystem.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
No need for an "underground" app store. You can use the regular Google Market, Amazon App Store, AppBrain, and GetJar to acquire and install applications.
If you are writing one yourself, then merely compile it and package it appropriate for the Android OS and you can install it without a market as long as you enable "Unknown Sources (Allow installation of non-Market applications)".
Thanks, I have never used the android device before so i was not sure of the actual restrictions the OS has as far as modifications compared to the Iphone, which is what i'm use to. If i offended anyone as far as the thinking i'm looking for free apps, i apologize. I'm more interested in direct access to the accelerometer, 6 axis gyroscope, and compass for instant feedback for my robot navigation system, as well as setting up either web server or remote capabilities to motors and functions through the device. It's all about what type of control and feedback i can gain from root versus not rooting. As well as tethering my iphone to it for greater bandwidth range, when WIFI is not available or weak.
Again any info regarding this type of information would be great.
superdave14 said:
Thanks, I have never used the android device before so i was not sure of the actual restrictions the OS has as far as modifications compared to the Iphone, which is what i'm use to. If i offended anyone as far as the thinking i'm looking for free apps, i apologize. I'm more interested in direct access to the accelerometer, 6 axis gyroscope, and compass for instant feedback for my robot navigation system, as well as setting up either web server or remote capabilities to motors and functions through the device. It's all about what type of control and feedback i can gain from root versus not rooting. As well as tethering my iphone to it for greater bandwidth range, when WIFI is not available or weak.
Again any info regarding this type of information would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look at the sdk. You don't need root for the things you intend to use your tab for. Root is needed if you need to modify the filesystem and you don't. You aren't helping yourself with thinking in the ios box. Android is much more open and thus much more friendly to the developers. All google apps are created using the same sdk that's available to us all, so if they can do anything, we can do it too (or at least we have the means to do it). There are some good examples in the sdk too, that can really help you to understand the means of reading sensor data. If I remember correctly, you had some C/C++ background, so it might help you to look as the ndk too.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
Android is much more open that the iOS, if you have a basic linux background, you can apply it here too. Rooting allows you to edit the filesystem, the equivalent of being able to write to the c:\windows and c:\program files folders. Occasionally, you may need it, but for most applications, you don't. The SDK is pretty powerful and its tutorials are quite comprehensive, with a little studying, you should be able to write an app that extracts the information you want. In general, Android app development is quite open and flexible.
As for the underground app store, there are many free apps in Google Market. Angry Birds and AdFree for instance (this is just to show that not just second rate developers offer free apps). Also, Amazon has a marketplace and they occasionally have offers for free or very discounted apps. In general, if you need an app, there is probably a free version that is supported by ads, or a lite version you can try before buying the full thing.
Just buy the Iconia tablet already.Erica promises you will love it..
Giggles.
As some of you might have heard, there is a security issue on some Android phones (including the SII) that enables someone to create a link which will wipe the data of your device when you click on that link from an Android device like the SII.
I have discovered a very cool App that prevents that from happening. All this App does is to recognize everytime you click on a link which wants to execute some code on your device through the dialer.
It then automatically tells you if it`s a dangerous code and if it`s harmful for your device. If it`s a normal phone number then you can dial it straight from the App.
Simple but very effective App that closes the security issue until Google/Samsung etc. decide to do something about it.
Here`s the link for the App:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.voss.notelurl
I haven`t developed this App so all credit goes to the Developer: Joerg Voss
Thank you so much for this info. Even though I'm using Firefox as my basic android browser. I have to use android's native one from time to time. Now can do that we less worries :good:
So after searching google and pretty much everywhere, I STILL haven't been able to find a clear answer on multitasking.
In wp7 I hated the fact that every single time I would open an app, it would restart from the beginning. Yes, I know you could hold the back button and then click on an app to go back to where you were, but I don't like doing that. I'm used to android where I can just click on any app from the home screen and it'll take me right back to where I left off.
A month ago I tried the lumia 900 and took it back after 2 days because of this. In WP8, I heard they brought real multitasking, but I still haven't been able to find a clear answer to my question...if I'm in an app, go back to homescreen, and then click on the app from the homescreen again, will it restart the app (where it looks like you opened it for the first time after a reboot), or will it put me right back where I left off?
Also, is there a good google voice or youtube app yet? I was using govoice but hated the fact that I actually had to open the app to see if I had any new messages.
Thanks.
I believe apps can be coded to fast resume from the home screen. I think the Facebook app does this but I havent tried it. Apps would need to be updated to add this support tho
from what ive read its possible but the current apps that are out have to be updated to add that feature
It depends on the app.
There is really no way around it.
The Android multitasking is unnatural. In windows/linux/whatever, when you press the icon of an application, it usually opens a new window.
WP8 has a feature Fast App resume, the app needs to be updated to make this feature work, you can read about it here
http://mindre.net/Article/Windows_Phone_8_Fast_app_resume
There is no true multitasking in WP8 except for Navigational apps AFAIK.
Well then, no wp8 for me. Thanks guys.
DirectX games also do not stop updating in the background.
Never seen the fuss around multitasking. The multitasking model works as far as I can see on most devices. You background a music player and it carries on playing.
iOS's system used to annoy, double clicking, touch and hold followed by repeatedly closing apps.
On Windows Mobile people used to complain about the close button not closing the application (it would run in the background). Now when you do close an application people are moaning it doesn't run in the background.
deadwrong03 said:
from what ive read its possible but the current apps that are out have to be updated to add that feature
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this confused me... why does the app need any update, when its the OS that does all the fore/back ground stuff? did I misunderstand you?
I'll agree with the op , Microsoft needs to clarify what its new OS does in the commercials instead of a dance routine.
ohgood said:
this confused me... why does the app need any update, when its the OS that does all the fore/back ground stuff? did I misunderstand you?
I'll agree with the op , Microsoft needs to clarify what its new OS does in the commercials instead of a dance routine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple, a phone is a battery operated device which needs a more careful considered approach to multitasking.
When you background a game that is running what should happen? (a) it carries on running, (b) it pauses or (c) it saves its state and closes down.
You have to ask yourself these sort of questions when building the application for a phone, the OS can't make that decision since it doesn't know what is the correct answer. So profiles are added to the OS and the developer of the OS selects one of these profiles.
So a downloading tool would continue to download, a music player would play music in the background, a game would pause or save state and an IM client would either carry on being connected or switch to push notification.
ohgood said:
this confused me... why does the app need any update, when its the OS that does all the fore/back ground stuff? did I misunderstand you?
I'll agree with the op , Microsoft needs to clarify what its new OS does in the commercials instead of a dance routine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the reason you are even considering the WP vs Android fight is due to multitasking.
Android has "real multitasking" and that makes it unstable, prone to random crashes, and generally not as smooth as WP.
On top of that, the WP environment does not allow for applications to do things behind your back. Your privacy is more secure with WP than it is with Android, and i like that.
mcosmin222 said:
Android has "real multitasking" and that makes it unstable, prone to random crashes, and generally not as smooth as WP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do people still actually believe this?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vetvito said:
Do people still actually believe this?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those who have a clue...yes.
The correct answer is "both"
Regarding the question about resume vs relaunch, to the best of my recollection from reading the WP8 SDK notes 12 days ago, the answer is as follows:
1. Existing apps written for WP7 will continue to work as-is. That is, launching the app tosses away the app's back stack and gives the user a "fresh" copy of the app.
2. Apps written for WP8 can indicate that they support resume on relaunch in their "manifest" file. When this is NOT indicated, the WP8 app behaves as the WP7 apps do: launching an app launches a fresh copy; backing into an app reconnects you to that app's back stack/history.
3. When a WP8 app indicates that it can handle resume on relaunch, the already running app is brought to the front, reconnected to its back stack, and has the main page of the app pushed on to the back stack. It is up to the developer of the app to decide which of three things happen at this point:
3a. Blow away the previous back stack (to simulate WP7 behavior);
3b. Pop off the "main page" item that the OS just pushed onto the back stack to effectively return the user to the last viewed page in the app;
3c. Neither, leaving a fresh copy of the main page in screen and the old back stack still present. This is a bad idea because it looks like the user restarted, but the old context is still there.
I'm at an airport now and don't have access to my dev box or SDK docs. Someone with such access can likley find the information in the WP8 SDK documentation (although not on the "What's New" page).
thanks manicotti.. that's the best explanation yet.
that other guy that above that wanted to argue about stuff... I just don't know what to say.
Look here...
http://mindre.net/Article/Windows_Phone_8_Fast_app_resume
This might be the answer to you're question
Sent from my HTC Titan on Deepshining 2.0 Rom using Board Express
gilesjuk said:
On Windows Mobile people used to complain about the close button not closing the application (it would run in the background). Now when you do close an application people are moaning it doesn't run in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true, so true.... I can still hear the HD2 user pool complaining...those were the golden days...
Side note: the "fast app resume" when launched from Start was actually possible on WP7, but its use wasn't permitted in the Marketplace (it's an option in one of the manifest files). Apparently that restriction is now lifted for WP8, but Marketplace apps that want to use it will need to be updated (very simple change, though) to set that option.
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).