Database Users

Question: Prettienss

I just want to start out by saying that this is in no way a knock at any developers, or Google, it's just a question I had. I'd figure it out myself, but I haven't had a chance to delve into Android development yet (too busy with other work) so I thought I'd ask some experts.
I love my Nexus One, and I'm a big fan of Android. I'm blown away how far it's come in such a short time, and how much potential I see in its future. One of the only areas I feel the phone is lacking, is in attractiveness of the OS and apps. I feel that people are drawn to pretty things, and it's one of the reasons that the iPhone is so popular. Apple puts a tremendous amount of effort into aesthetic design of their software, and it shows. From what I've seen so far, I feel like a lot of Android apps (or at least third party apps) are lacking in that design and polish, and in many cases seem to indicate that developers are taking the path of least resistance.
I don't think that Android is ugly whatsoever, but I do feel that most of the apps I've seen are not as pretty as they could be. Sure, the HTC widgets add a lot, but I'm talking more on a fundamental level of design, and I actually have a great example to illustrate where I think things should go.
The Gallery app. This is a beautiful work of design in my opinion. The design of the entire application is simple, yet elegant. I love the rounded, clean look of the icons, and the menus, and the way the pictures are displayed and how you traverse the application. To give a contrast, if I go into one of my favorite apps functionality-wise (Last.fm - who has a gorgeous website and 360 app), I'm totally turned off by the appearance. It's plain, and gray, and drab. It's just got those arrowed clickable areas, and that's about it. Seesmic, another great app, is also extremely drab and unappealing. It gives me a feeling of looking at an application created in Visual Basic 6 (if anyone has experience with this ha!). Heck, they just implemented multiple accounts, and instead of having a slick screen, it's just a list of accounts that probably took 3 minutes to implement. The moment I looked at the screen I thought to myself how this would be the perfect place for a Windows 7ish login screen; an enlarged view of your portrait with your info underneath that allows you to swipe back and forth to choose which account you want to use.
I know this is a long post, but I just wanted to illustrate my feelings. My question; is this a matter of Google not providing the proper toolsets, an abundance of armchair developers who don't have the resources to make pretty UI's/lack of professional developers, or just plain lazy developers?
Any insight would be appreciated. I feel that this is one huge component Google needs to focus on to be able to properly compete with Apple. I can understand in the past allowing the TPM's to customize their builds how they want them to look, but with the launch of the Nexus, I feel it's time for Google to step up to the plate and really focus on the design of their OS.

xSiraris said:
I just want to start out by saying that this is in no way a knock at any developers, or Google, it's just a question I had. I'd figure it out myself, but I haven't had a chance to delve into Android development yet (too busy with other work) so I thought I'd ask some experts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you said it yourself, "too busy with other work"

well in terms of Google, one thing I've never regarded them for is design. look at their online presence. it's not all that attractive. functional and optimizable, yes. slick looking, no. but that's their business. Apple really concentrates on the 'feel' of total UX, but at the expense of personalization. Google is more about providing service, but at the expense of design.
that being said, the iPhone OS desktop is looking more and more boring to me all the time. I genuinely like the how Android desktop looks (except for maybe the notification bar).
as for apps, I think the rough edges around Android apps will disappear as Android gains market share. right now, devs don't have all that much incentive to concentrate on Android while iPhone is king. I'm sure inthe next few years it will even out (although I do expect the iPhone to dominate for a good while to come).

j.books said:
well in terms of Google, one thing I've never regarded them for is design. look at their online presence. it's not all that attractive. functional and optimizable, yes. slick looking, no. but that's their business. Apple really concentrates on the 'feel' of total UX, but at the expense of personalization. Google is more about providing service, but at the expense of design.
that being said, the iPhone OS desktop is looking more and more boring to me all the time. I genuinely like the how Android desktop looks (except for maybe the notification bar).
as for apps, I think the rough edges around Android apps will disappear as Android gains market share. right now, devs don't have all that much incentive to concentrate on Android while iPhone is king. I'm sure inthe next few years it will even out (although I do expect the iPhone to dominate for a good while to come).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS itself isn't really the issue. I'm talking more the controls provided. I think they could be improved, and I feel they ARE improved in the Gallery app. I'd like to see that kind of design in more apps, as opposed to what I'm seeing in most now. There's certain standards of design that just are not found in most apps outside of the first party ones (I think maps, finance, gallery and the browser are all great looking apps, while Calendar, and Translate could use some work).
And Google may not have had to focus on design to this point, but if they want to go up against Apple, I think they will have to.

I think app wise, its due to Android being open & no one is saying yes or no to apps. Developers can slap a few sounds together & call it a soundboard, there's a new app in the market.
Apple, on the other hand, has the final say. If it doesn't look the way they want or up to their standards, they can turn it down. I bet if Apple just let anyone submit apps at any time, you'd see a lot of crap there too.
Its just a matter of having standards... no one is forcing Android developers to make a pretty app. As cool as it is having an open market, it would be that much better to have some sort of standards.
This just being my opinion of course... I have an iPod touch & ever since Android came out, I haven't bought an app from the app store. If Apple let go of the reigns a little, I think they would be so much better. But I don't like being told what I can & can't have on my phone, which is why my iPod is jailbroken.

Google could do a lot just by making their notification bar/widgets/etc black. This (imho) goes a long way to making android look more like a competitor in the smartphone arena.

Doesn't it also have to do with the "default" button style in Android? This might make no sense so sorry if it doesn't.
Go into calendar and choose New Event from the menu. There you see the "default" buttons for Android which are used throughout - the buttons for the time and date. The little grey ones with the slight gradient. I think that the Android SDK just has very limited built in design tools / default buttons to choose from that just make it uglier. I feel like I saw a demo of the iPhone SDK once and they had like a design screen where you could graphically design the UI and they had a bunch of objects to choose from that you could customize but they were all really nice looking.
Android doesn't seem to have anything like this - no "design" view or anything in the SDK and very limited built in design tools or default objects.

Part of the difference you're noticing is in he two SDKs. The iPhone app design is really locked down in a lot of ways. When building a GUI for the iPhone, you start out with Apple's default set of super shiny buttons so it's difficult to make an app that doesn't look pretty and cohesive. If you do manage to do so, your app isn't approved.
With Android, Google gives developers just a framework. Everything is minimalist and bare. This of course gives developers more freedom to build unique GUIs but like you said most don't and like others said, there is no moderation. Making a truly great GUI is a LOT of work and most devs are just engineers. Only the teams with lots of money hire designers and graphics artists. Both methods have their pros and cons

cboy007 said:
Doesn't it also have to do with the "default" button style in Android? This might make no sense so sorry if it doesn't.
Go into calendar and choose New Event from the menu. There you see the "default" buttons for Android which are used throughout - the buttons for the time and date. The little grey ones with the slight gradient. I think that the Android SDK just has very limited built in design tools / default buttons to choose from that just make it uglier. I feel like I saw a demo of the iPhone SDK once and they had like a design screen where you could graphically design the UI and they had a bunch of objects to choose from that you could customize but they were all really nice looking.
Android doesn't seem to have anything like this - no "design" view or anything in the SDK and very limited built in design tools or default objects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one has commented on the Gallery buttons I referenced. I think these are much better looking than the controls found in other apps. If they were to use something more along those lines in other apps, I'd be much happier.
But I understand what is being said, and I hope Google does something about it. I appreciate the freedom they are giving to developers, but appearance counts, and if developers don't have the time or resources to make the pretty GUI's, then Google should provide the tools to help them do so.

I just had an idea that may actually help. One of the things third party developers are complaining about (I'm talking about the professionals here, not armchair) is that their apps aren't being seen, or bought, and getting lost in the shuffle. What if Google created an authorized/registered developer program, where a third party developer could register with Google. At this point, they would be held up to higher standards and practices, but Google would create a separate place on the marketplace, or some way to filter by registered/authorized developers.
The way it is now, everything is getting lost in the shuffle. This method would give the exposure the professionals want, it would improve the quality of apps on the marketplace, all while leaving the open market that exists today.

I agree. Sounds like a good idea--right now, even the most polished, best apps can easily get overlooked if they aren't spammed up on several tech/Android blogs. It's why it took me so long to discover, say, Home++

desktop app browser
also, an online desktop app catalogue would help, simply because there is not enough space on a small screen to display a lot of variety. I guess they want to keep everything on-phone, as opposed to iTunes where you have to be plugged-in to install apps, but they could do something where you choose an app from your desktop browser and it pushes a notification to your phone. then when you go to the notification, it brings you to the app in the market, where you can DL and install it.
this would preserve the ability to get apps on the go if you need them with the expanded view of a desktop, creating more visibility for the apps, without compelling you to connect your phone to your desktop.

S
j.books said:
also, an online desktop app catalogue would help, simply because there is not enough space on a small screen to display a lot of variety. I guess they want to keep everything on-phone, as opposed to iTunes where you have to be plugged-in to install apps, but they could do something where you choose an app from your desktop browser and it pushes a notification to your phone. then when you go to the notification, it brings you to the app in the market, where you can DL and install it.
this would preserve the ability to get apps on the go if you need them with the expanded view of a desktop, creating more visibility for the apps, without compelling you to connect your phone to your desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Orrr you can just go to AndroLib.com, scan the app, and donwload it in the market!

Several reasons...
1. Google simply doesnt have a good visual design team or a good visual design lead.
The gallery app looks wonderful becuase it was made by cooliris. Not google.
I admit they have gotten better. The transition to home/apps and live wallpapers are great and have great visual appeal.Standard N1 UI w/a live wallpaper is better looking than iphone and just slightly behind a palm pre. Where as it was way behind in 1.6
So they obviously have tried to focus more on there visuals.
They still have some improvements to make but its always iffy since they dont have a track record for great visuals.
2. The visualtools arent uniform. Thats a good thing for Devs not needing to get "approved" for everything... But it does mean that Iphone apps are drawing from a pool of buttons/icons/layouts that were made by some of the visual people in the business.
3. Even without that the visual people on the Mac/Apple side of things are more talented. To be long winded theres a world of designers and coders. Few VERY few can do both well. Its become clear to me in a short time just how good Android devs are on addressing needs and issues. Heck even the OS experience changes becuase of there talents.
But they cant visually design worth a damned.
Very few apps on iphone even from the jailbreak community seemed as well made or intuitive. Even there hallmark cydia was utter crap. It could be apples closed system of course but just got a sense of clunkiness and low level winmo app making.
4. $$$$$$$
At the end of the day a company or App dev can make beautiful apps on iPhone with little gambling. Its easier to make money in the Apple store thus easier to hire quality visual people to give coders great layouts pieces to work with.
Not much incentive to go hire out some UI designer when you can slap together some easy photoshop stuff yourself.
If Fandango or Directv (just examples) hire some visual dudes to help make its app for iphone..then 6 months later for android the chances are really high hes going to see the lack of Apple given/mandated visuals and realize he has to do everything himself. Unless hes really dedicated hes not going to max out that potential hes going to slap together the best look alike he can.
This has and is happening regularly from what I understand.
Thats it in a nutshell.

Android Gripes blog is seriously pissing me off

EVERYONE has a few gripes with Android...Everyone...however this blog is so biased and uninformative it seriously annoys me.
The first post was about how SOME iOS apps look better than their Android counterparts...a fault entirely with the devs of those apps, not Androids fault...which is obvious but not on that blog...
Then they start posting half truths and lies and it's absurd.
Such As:
one post is entirely opinion based (Android looks like crap)
Another uses the recent Skype scandal as if it is somehow Androids fault that the devs were incompetent.
Another actually disses the notification panel...seriously...
And the most recent one disses flash...as if A) it has to be always on and B) is worse than it is...
the blog is seriously frustrating...
check it out....
android-gripes.tumblr.com

there are iOS haters, so there are Android haters too
don't worry we love our Android.

I agree with houzuoguo. The thing about this blog that will infuriate many is the lack of comments section, each post should open to discussion. It's closed (ahem iOS) and would cater to Apple fanboys.

I blog about my gripes with Android sometimes, but the majority of which are geared at the carriers and manufacturers actions, not Android itself. Android is so customizable, I'd have a hard time believing that Android looks ugly. I also keep my comments section open for discussion which I enjoy. This blog just seems like a shill for Apple.

tkgod said:
I blog about my gripes with Android sometimes, but the majority of which are geared at the carriers and manufacturers actions, not Android itself. Android is so customizable, I'd have a hard time believing that Android looks ugly. I also keep my comments section open for discussion which I enjoy. This blog just seems like a shill for Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what pissing me off the most...the first post I read about devs making android apps look like crap compared to iOS apps...I was like yea, good, bring this to the forefront...but soon after it seemed to be overwhelmed with half truths and lies and just all around BS.
Seriously...the dude who dissed the Android notification panel even went as far as to say that iOS's notifications are better....even the most diehard Apple blog has never said something so retarded before right then.

That blog is full of crap...not even close to being creditable. Android is in 1st place for OS's and continues to rock!

omg he quoted you! (out of context, naturally, him being an iTard)
He does have a right to spew his crap on his blog,twitter and fb. Create a new androidRocks id and challenge every single of his lines, with rock hard evidence.
His biased opinion is clear here (quote), I wont even try to correct him as every single statement is false.
Why do I write this blog?
I have been an user of iPhone, iPad, iPod and Mac for years. I like Apple’s products for some reasons and I like Apple’s culture.
I admire what Google has done for the Internet, but I do have some negative opinions on Android. I’m fine with new products coming into the market and competing with Apple’s. What bothers me is that Android gets into the market in an “evil” way - it proposed “openness” and claimed Apple products are “close” so Android is better. This is absolutely nonsense marketing buzz. So sad that a lot of medias also blindly jumped into it. “Openness” is such a vague concept and whatever it tries to say means almost nothing or even something negative to consumers. Smartphones do not need the so called “openness”.
I have constantly heard many gripes about Android. Recently I happened to have access to some Android phones and use them in a daily base. The more I use Android, the more I feel that Android is indeed a half-baked OS, its UX/UI is horrible and various hardwares are poorly designed. It’s true that those phones are working like smartphones, better than feature phones from old school, but they ignore a lot of the details. Just for Google’s own benefit, they helped handset manufactures brutally dumped a huge amount of unpolished devices to the market. They made people think this is how smartphones should work. This is so unfair to consumers. IMHO, it is no different from committing a crime. That’s why I made the cartoon of “Android Gripes” as a Monopoly “Go Directly To Jail” card showing an Android on it.
As much as I believe in Apple, I think everybody deserves great user experience, especially when it comes to phones. I think it is my mission to let more people know that Android does not provide you that. Android only provides inferior user experience. You either admit it and bear with it, or go for better alternatives. That’s why I started writing this blog.
This blog, and related Twitter account and Facebook Page, are all run by myself. I’m not affiliated with Apple Inc. in any way, neither with Google Inc., apparently. I only have very limited time, so I often cite others’ articles and occasionally write down my own experiences and opinions. You may sometimes find my writing sound unusual, that’s because I’m not a native English speaker. I started writing articles in English since not very long ago.
Happy reading and I appreciate your support.
Lastly, competition should always be encouraged. Wish the best to Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Lol, the way he gets his point across may may appear as bashing, but he isn't entirely lying. Stock Android is hideous, and people only prefer it to anything else because of it's speed. It isn't polished and it simply isn't too lovely. However I do like how Google focuses on "Dark", iOS seems somewhat too bright and colorful. Yes colorful is usually good, but iOS also makes everything shiny, somewhat childish or something... it's hard to explain why I don't entirely like it, but something about iOS in general seems eh to me.
I was going to actually give this guy the benefit of the doubt and assume that he actually wanted to better Android. Then I noticed that he only post news related to Android when it makes Android look bad. Only when it makes Android look bad. What does random news articles have to do with your problems with Android? It also seems to me he hates Android and wants everyone to hate Android as well. Then again, the title of the blog is "Android Gripes", so I guess focusing on the negatives on the OS is the point. Posting how Skype had a vulnerability does seem extremely odd though... it again makes me assume he just wants to create a site to make Android seem pathetic. The "Is Samsung’s New Galaxy Tab Fibbing About Its Figure? And About Those Galaxy Tab Fans…" post is completely irrelevant to the blog. And video of the new, thinner 10.1 tab has been out for a few days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdu5PVjCGo0, sadly not before that post.
I agree with him entirely from a design standpoint, several Android apps and Android without being properly modified in general is ugly. There is no denying that (well it is an opinion, so you could deny it) but it is also highly customizable -- and it also seems that developers do not try as hard on their Android apps at all. However, I do not like his hate toward Android. He is trying to use every minuscule flaw, or even things that that aren't really even "flaws" of the operating system to make it seem inferior to iOS. I honestly hope such a blog inspires Google to focus a little harder on Android's user interface. Google sucks at this. And they always have.

You will not find a bigger Android guy than me, but I admit, that the design of many of our apps is crap. This is actually why I got into application design. I love Android and want to make it better, and before Honeycomb it didnt look like Google was really making big strides in the design arena. But then again, I dont think they are a very design heavy company as a whole, and there have been numerous stories throughout the years of how their designers get fed up and leave because the engineering heavy company just doesnt seem to understand design as a whole. Fortunately with Mathias Duarte now on board I believe things are going to change quite a bit, and imho already have with some great new ui stuff on Honeycomb.
I dont think the Android phone ui is hideous or anything, but when you have such great functionality as Android has, it really brings you down to see such poopy design sometimes. For instance do a search on "calendar widget." There is only one I would consider being well designed, Pure grid, while the other 200 cal widgets may have great function, but look just awful.
All that being said, if anyone is interested in getting an application designed professionally by my company, feel free to dm me. We have some great stuff coming out for iOS, and since I'm one of two guys at my company that uses Android I would love to get some more Android apps to work on. Plus it would be nice to throw in my bosses face when he bad mouths Android designs

I admit there are more polished looking apps on iPhone over android. But I happen to find stock gingerbread just pure elegant and beautiful. With launcher pro of course, but I find it beautiful. I mean how could stock android be "ugly" and not have iOS ugly as well? Stock android looks way better to me.

AbsoluteDesignz said:
EVERYONE has a few gripes with Android...Everyone...however this blog is so biased and uninformative it seriously annoys me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the best way to get back at him is to make a blog of your own called iOS-gripes.tumblr.com
As far as the look of the operating system I would have to say that stock Android is nicer than iOS.
Main reasons I ended up switching to the iPhone 4 was due to:
1. HID bluetooth keyboard support built into the OS.
2. Netflix app that streams video.
3. Navigon GPS app for iOS that I actually prefer over Google Maps Navigation (doesn't need data, lane assist, turns down music instead of just pausing it). I tried out the Android version of the app and it seemed really half-assed like how it would talk over the music playing instead of trying to pause it or turn it down so you couldn't hear what it was telling you.
4. Better resale value when selling it on Craigslist. Usually the top android phone gets replaced by something better within 3 - 6 months and the resale value goes down accordingly. With the iPhone there are always tons of sheep wanting to buy yours and its guaranteed to stay at the top of the food chain for an entire year.
I agree though AD the guy is just being a troll and should either be less biased or needs to keep his mouth shut

I in no way deny the fact that iOS apps as a whole are better designed than Android apps...that's a fact...an unfortunate fact, but a fact.
I also think Stock Android is about 2 or 3 steps away from being much better (and from what I've seen and "felt" of Honeycomb it'll be closer once that hits phones).
I just do not like a select few posts which show an obvious bias...
The Samsung post...like that has anything to do with Android.
The Skype post, like that is Androids fault in the least.
The notification panel post which is just ridiculous.
And the snide comments in the article itself.
I respected the blog when I first said it as I felt it was bringing to light a big issue about app quality...then he kept updating it and yea...BS.

Well I have a Nexus One and an iPad2.
Let me just say that I fight with the iPad 2's iOS constantly. And while it may look pleasant, the design and functionality are lacking.
2 Examples that blow my mind:
AppStore: Browsing through tons of pages until I find an app I want to try. Click. Download. Exit. Homescreen... Ok I see it installing. Flip back. Re-Launch AppStore.... oh wait... I'm back to page 1 out of 254,325. Great...
SketchLive HD: Sweet doodle app. Click Send. Pop's up asking to set up an email account. No back button. No exit button. Back to the homescreen. Relaunch SketchLive HD.
This is like this for almost every app. You only have 1 option, the home button. I'm new so I'm exploring lots of apps. Almost every one of them has something that wouldn't allow me to go back... forcing me to close out and relaunch.
My thinking: Android is created by geeky logical coders where functionality > style. Apple is just the opposite where style > functionality.
I'll take functionality any day. I'm glad I never bought an iPhone as my daily communication device as it would be shattered on a road somewhere. Nothing is more aggravating then knowing what you are trying to do, but the software is too stupid to do it.
Here's more: The App Store shouldn't ping me to enter in my password every 15 minutes. It's freaking annoying. iTunes required me to setup a password that has Numbers and Capital and lowercase letters. It's a pain in the butt trying to go through Caps and Numbers on the iPad.
Also: The keyboard is atrocious. Why are the letters Capped when I'm using lowercase? Why can't you press and hold for numbers? Why does it FORCE a capital letter as the first letter of an input box? Very annoying and it makes me want to simply break it.
Apple found the magical formula to polishing a turd, and selling it for butt loads of money. Well played.

Just glanced quickly over at that blog and I agree completely with "Too many apps “live” in the notification panel".. If I want to be 100% sure Android won't kill an app I have to have it as an ongoing notification at ALL times? That is so ridiculous

crachel said:
Just glanced quickly over at that blog and I agree completely with "Too many apps “live” in the notification panel".. If I want to be 100% sure Android won't kill an app I have to have it as an ongoing notification at ALL times? That is so ridiculous
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Notification icons are optional and completely up to the developer, however a windows style "hide inactive icons"/manual configuration will be nice.

britoso said:
Notification icons are optional and completely up to the developer, however a windows style "hide inactive icons"/manual configuration will be nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right, but even if the developer allows for no icon, there is still a blank space.. so if you have 2 or 3 ongoing notifications, you might have 2 icons with 1 blank space in between which looks even dumber..

crachel said:
right, but even if the developer allows for no icon, there is still a blank space.. so if you have 2 or 3 ongoing notifications, you might have 2 icons with 1 blank space in between which looks even dumber..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? In my experience, Apps that have an option on whether or not to display a notification panel icon (like Trillian or Skype) don't leave "blank space" in the notification area, they just aren't present there.
If an app developer opts for a non-visible phantom icon he is probably doing it wrong.

PartyMango said:
Huh? In my experience, Apps that have an option on whether or not to display a notification panel icon (like Trillian or Skype) don't leave "blank space" in the notification area, they just aren't present there.
If an app developer opts for a non-visible phantom icon he is probably doing it wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want your app to avoid potentially being garbage collected by Android you have to have an ongoing notification (running in the foreground) which means an icon or a blank space on the status bar
If the app is not running in the foreground (ongoing notification), Android could possibly see fit to kill it in the event memory is needed elsewhere.. so in this case, you're correct the app wouldn't be present at all

Nevermindz, lol.

crachel said:
If the app is not running in the foreground (ongoing notification), Android could possibly see fit to kill it in the event memory is needed elsewhere.. so in this case, you're correct the app wouldn't be present at all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the information, didn't know about that.
Eclair~ said:
The Speedtest.net app was updated for Android to look exactly like the iOS (which is beautiful) version:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is their new design, Speedtest.net redesigned their website as well. It is very unlikely that this is in any way related to the android gripes post.

The State of Android Apps

When I first got my EVO on launch day a year ago, I fell in love with Android (coming from an iPhone 3GS) and the EVO hardware, but the apps were complete crap; I hoped they'd get better, and to some extent, they have. A very small percentage of the apps do look and work better, but the selection is still really lackluster. The apps still aren't even close to the iOS apps I left over a year ago; they're nothing close in terms of selection or quality when compared.
Troll and flame away! Just kidding. I would actually like to conduct a half-way decent thread about the state of Android apps.

Hrshycro said:
When I first got my EVO on launch day a year ago, I fell in love with Android (coming from an iPhone 3GS) and the EVO hardware, but the apps were complete crap; I hoped they'd get better, and to some extent, they have. A very small percentage of the apps do look and work better, but the selection is still really lackluster. The apps still aren't even close to the iOS apps I left over a year ago; they're nothing close in terms of selection or quality when compared.
Troll and flame away! Just kidding. I would actually like to conduct a half-way decent thread about the state of Android apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion all the apps I used are getting "more professional looking" as time moves on. Certainly since Gingerbread's release.
Are they all up to "iPhone app standards"? No. But they're getting there.

mattykinsx said:
In my opinion all the apps I used are getting "more professional looking" as time moves on. Certainly since Gingerbread's release.
Are they all up to "iPhone app standards"? No. But they're getting there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree...the 5 I use are getting better, but still a good half away from an iOS app. Still, no real selection of 'good' apps. They kind of remind me of Windows apps compared to OS X apps.

Let's keep in mind that the Android Marketplace is a full year or so younger than Apple's app store.
The platform is younger, in terms of public use, and the style is more open ended.
That is positive for some reasons and negative for others.

I can definitely agree with that. While there are certainly some amazing apps (Tasker, looking at you!) they tend to be few and far between. And the inconsistencies can be more than glaring. Even a killer app may have a horrid UI (Tasker, again, looking at you!). I suppose that so long as the job gets done, I can't really complain much.
But that is one thing I can get behind with iOS; the uniformity. Sure, worthless apps exist, but in terms of the look and feel? For the most part it's very consistent. I know that with Android you have so many people that are able to create and release an app, but that also lends to a bunch of half-ass applications that either barely get the job done or just look down right ugly. Or are just completely useless.
The multitude of choice is both good and bad. Even such things as a goofy application icon gets to me. Sure, I change my icons ... but, dayum. That's not even important, it's that it just adds to the madness at times.
There are definitely some amazing applications out there, and over time you find the ones you really need and appreciate, like a decent calendar. But that still requires some hunting and experimenting, which isn't necessarily bad unless you're trying to find a solid app that simply looks and acts the way you want.
I love the Android platform, but this is one of the things that can add to the frustrations of it. It has gotten better, and will get better. Just like Android as a whole.

I think that will change once ice cream sandwich comes out, all of the honeycomb apps have a very consistent and sexy looking UI

psych2l said:
I think that will change once ice cream sandwich comes out, all of the honeycomb apps have a very consistent and sexy looking UI
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. I'm really banking on this next shift.

mattykinsx said:
Let's keep in mind that the Android Marketplace is a full year or so younger than Apple's app store.
The platform is younger, in terms of public use, and the style is more open ended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/\This.
Apple has been around for a fair amount of time now. Android Market is younger, and I think had a somewhat slow start, before taking over the smartphone market, like it has today. I would say, all things considered, it's not half bad, and yes it definitely keeps getting better. Two of my fav apps, Pageonce and PhonemyPC, have gotten exponentially better just in the short time I've been using them.

*edit* sorry this got a little longer than I had planned I got going and couldn't stop till I had made my point which as it turns out is kind of big.
I also love the platform we have BUT iPhone apps have been and will likely always be better. Think of it like art. There are plenty of painters in the world, but most are average. They would all like to hang their pictures in a gallery, but really at best .0001% are good enough to warrant this. The Apple Appstore is like a gallery. It takes only the best looking, best working, most efficient apps and rejects the rest. Therefore when you walk in, you are blown away. All you see is the best.
The Android Market is more like a city wall. Sure you could paint a masterpiece on one, but who'd notice with all the graffiti everywhere? Everyone who can use a paintbrush is painting all over everything and it's a damned clusterf**k. Just finding the good paintings is luck at best, and there is almost no incentive to paint a masterpiece there for just that reason.
The best Devs develop for iPhones. They prefer the walled garden because it helps keep their app from getting lost in the shuffle(tho the average devs hate it because it keeps rejecting their poorly coded barely functional apps). Also Devs love that when making an iPhone app, you know exactly what type of OS and Phone it will run on. There's only one iPhone. There's only one iOS. There are thousands of android phones, some with keyboards, some with touch-screens, some with Android 2.3, some with 2.3, some with 2.1, plenty with even older versions, some with one resolution, some with other resolutions, some with 3g some with 4g, some without either even. Some are smart phones some are *dumb* phones. Some are flip phones some are sliders. Some have touchwiz some have Sense. Some have Motoblur. Some have...well you get where I'm going with this.
Historically, if you look at apps for Mac computers, while few in number compared to PC apps, they were usually superior and more user friendly. And more polished. The apple and android phone conflict is not a new war, it's a mobile version of the same war that has raged since the early 80s:
On one side there is Apple, saying that "this is our Hardware and this is our OS. You can use it if you but you can't change it. Can't put it on your hardware. You can't put your own spin on it. Our stuff will "just work" because from a Devs standpoint, all variables are known, and we don't allow them access to anything important enough to make your phone stop working at any rate."
On the other side there is Android(taking the place of windows). They say "Here is our software, we don't make hardware so knock yourselves out. Make phones form $50 to $700 dollars for all we care. Also we don't mind if you change our code and make our OS your own. But beware because there will be billions of possible hardware/software combinations due to this and the truly best Devs will just make apps for Mac because it's easier by far. And those Devs who brave our water will produce apps which are buggy and largely untested on most devices... but we will allow them to do many times more with those apps than the simple, easy to use Mac software."
So in the end it will come down to exactly the same argument as had been used for the PC/MAC war for decades. If all you need to do is basic things(email phone calls texts etc) get an iphone(A Mac). If you want to be able to do more but at the expense of user-friendliness and stability, get a android(PC)."
I like to tinker, I use Android. Would NEVER get my girlfriend an android phone tho if she wanted a smartphone. Like ever. Or my parents. Or my daughter.
When all is said and done, Android will win the war for Quantity. There will be far more Android phones and apps. The cell providers love android. And due to the multiple price points and variable there is one for everybody.
But just like in the PC/Mac wars, the iPhone will still have a place. And it's apps will likely always be a cut above.

ice cream sandwich..

Do you guys think ice cream sandwich can keep up with ios's smoothness? I used to hate apple and still don't like itmuch, but if ice cream sandwich won't be at least almost as smooth as ios, then i will definitely think about getting an ipad and selling my android tablet.. ios 5 has a lot of features that can keep up with current android, and it gives a really good experience with buttery smooth transition animation, although a little less feature. I know we should wait till tmr to find out all the features of ics, but do you guys think it will be smooth with no lag, especially the jerkiness when scrolling?

If your tablet is exceedingly jerky you should try wiping it or getting a replacement.
Besides that, I have no doubt that there will be plenty of under the hood improvements along with the UI updates.

Thanar said:
If your tablet is exceedingly jerky you should try wiping it or getting a replacement.
Besides that, I have no doubt that there will be plenty of under the hood improvements along with the UI updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to say... "what jerkiness?"

Cactus42 said:
I was going to say... "what jerkiness?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you've ever used a current ios device then you know exactly what he's talking about. my a500 overclocked at 1.5 on a fresh install, is nowhere near as smooth as an ios device. There are certain jitters when performing certain actions. And lag when typing is a huge issue, that I can't seem to fix regardly of rom choice keyboard choice or overclock settings.

I'd recommend waiting until tomorrow night. They might pull out something "amazing" like with froyo and increase speed across the board again.

What little I have been reading about it Google is really working on UI, including trying to speed up transitions and effects. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen, so my advice is: don't throw out the baby with the bath-water. Wait until you get a chance to actually try it YOURSELF once it's out and ignore rumours.

Yea comparing to ios, my tablet (usually smooth) is very jittery. And one thing that I haven't been doing much but started doing a lot is using it in portrait mode, and I just can't stand the lag.. and i really hope there will be at least close amount of various animation that are present in ios..and I REALLY hope the scrolling lag will be gone, like in youtube app, or actually any other app, when scrolling while loading image or something, is laggy. After I've spent some time with ios in a retail store, I really can't stand the lag haha..
WereCatf said:
What little I have been reading about it Google is really working on UI, including trying to speed up transitions and effects. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen, so my advice is: don't throw out the baby with the bath-water. Wait until you get a chance to actually try it YOURSELF once it's out and ignore rumours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yea, I hope they succeed. I will definitely try it out. I THINK windows phone 7 is pretty smooth and ios is of course smooth but was wondering, why the biggest software company cant make their os better. Than apple and microsoft. I mean that in the general transition effect in terms of smoothness, not the OS features.

sw6lee said:
And yea, I hope they succeed. I will definitely try it out. I THINK windows phone 7 is pretty smooth and ios is of course smooth but was wondering, why the biggest software company cant make their os better. Than apple and microsoft. I mean that in the general transition effect in terms of smoothness, not the OS features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, atleast partially the reason is technical: Apple's iOS is all native code AFAIK and tuned for Apple's hardware. After all, Apple controls all the parts that go to their devices and only choose parts that they know will work on iOS. Google on the other hand has to provide an OS platform that is a lot more malleable and can run on a wide range of devices with wildly differing characteristics, so it creates some overhead. Plus Android isn't native code, so again that creates some execution overhead.
And well, remember that iOS builds on OSX, it's just streamlined and tuned for mobile devices whereas Android is a completely new OS and Google doesn't have much previous experience in OS development. Ie. Apple has a lot of headway compared to Google and it'll take some time for Google to catch up.

WereCatf said:
Well, atleast partially the reason is technical: Apple's iOS is all native code AFAIK and tuned for Apple's hardware. After all, Apple controls all the parts that go to their devices and only choose parts that they know will work on iOS. Google on the other hand has to provide an OS platform that is a lot more malleable and can run on a wide range of devices with wildly differing characteristics, so it creates some overhead. Plus Android isn't native code, so again that creates some execution overhead.
And well, remember that iOS builds on OSX, it's just streamlined and tuned for mobile devices whereas Android is a completely new OS and Google doesn't have much previous experience in OS development. Ie. Apple has a lot of headway compared to Google and it'll take some time for Google to catch up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I truly love your informative posts... Thanks for being a part of this community.

Euclid's Brother said:
I truly love your informative posts... Thanks for being a part of this community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh. I'm somewhat surprised to get such feedback, usually I just hear that I'm an arrogant bastard. But well, thanks. I just saw an opportunity for giving some real feedback in an effort to stop an oncoming flamewar.

WereCatf said:
Eh. I'm somewhat surprised to get such feedback, usually I just hear that I'm an arrogant bastard. But well, thanks. I just saw an opportunity for giving some real feedback in an effort to stop an oncoming flamewar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
arrogant bastard, a great beer!

Come on, don't give up on android, for sure ios have by far the most smooth scrolling, but android gave you the fun to improving it. I get alot of satisfaction by flashing roms, kernels, overclocking, overcharging or simply playing around with the theme and designing your own styling. It's open and free. ois is all about giving you something that's good at a ridiculously high price...

iOS is definitely more refined when it comes to animations, ascetics, and fine detail. All of which creates a more pleasing (to look at) and responsive UI.
My iOS devices do occasionally succumb to the same animation stutters and laggy keyboard as my Android ones. However, usually only after a jailbreak and installing homebrew.
My biggest complaint with Android tablets (and android in general) is App support. Tablet app selection is dismal on Android and compatibility with 2.3 apps even worse.

sw6lee said:
Do you guys think ice cream sandwich can keep up with ios's smoothness? I used to hate apple and still don't like itmuch, but if ice cream sandwich won't be at least almost as smooth as ios, then i will definitely think about getting an ipad and selling my android tablet.. ios 5 has a lot of features that can keep up with current android, and it gives a really good experience with buttery smooth transition animation, although a little less feature. I know we should wait till tmr to find out all the features of ics, but do you guys think it will be smooth with no lag, especially the jerkiness when scrolling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iOS was built from the ground up to use very little memory and CPU cycles. Remember when you couldn't even multitask on there? Well now all that has changed but Apple is sticking to the principle.
Android on the other hand is built upon Linux. Google is doing the very best with the software and tools they have. If you imitate iOS and remove all your widgets and satisfy with just some icons on your home screens it's highly likely you'll mimic very closely the experience of iOS in terms of the OS being lag free. Of course this varies from person to person in what and how many apps they are running, etc. Any apps that run services will take some toll on the system; herein lies an example of a big difference between how Android vs. iOS works.
Widgets also use up a chunk of memory as well as CPU cycles at a time and are one of the priority reasons the software may lag, especially some of those flashy ones like CNN/News widgets, big ones like Music/Video widgets or constantly moving ones like Weather/Time widgets.
We can only wait and see what ICS will bring. There's no guarantee that it will be any faster/smoother than Honeycomb is; for me Honeycomb is pretty damned smooth. Also Vanilla Android/Honeycomb doesn't consist of that many animations to start with unless you get 3rd party launchers...but scrolling for me and launching apps carries little to no lag with it.
Keep in mind also that momentum has built up and hardware has caught up with software demands. My G1 with 1.6 cannot begin to compare to my myTouch4G with 2.3 on it. If the trend continues we can more than likely safely assume that any sort of lag will disappear as more powerful processors are introduced.
Ultimately it's up to you to decide what's more important to you.
I'm not sure I could give up my widgets at this point just to get smoother animations as I have grown accustomed to and am now depending on them.
If you think you like iOS more for any reason, especially if you feel it now matches Android in terms of features, I'd definitely make the switch sooner than later. I'd hate to spend money on Android apps and then have to buy them all over again on iOS.

When would we reasonably except ICS to be available for the Acer Iconia?
Either for Rooted users or in a OTA upgrade?

I'd say about a month. People will probably have it booting (but that'll be about it) day of the source being released though.

Another bloke confirmed that Acer is planning on supporting the A500 with ICS.

So, today is the day. I'm EST, so 10pm for me.
Rather than start a new thread, I'm just throwing this in here incase anyone wants to chat about it later.
youtube.com/android
Of course it's a Samsung event but it should still provide some tasty insights.
//pun off

gammaRascal said:
So, today is the day. I'm EST, so 10pm for me.
Rather than start a new thread, I'm just throwing this in here incase anyone wants to chat about it later.
youtube.com/android
Of course it's a Samsung event but it should still provide some tasty insights.
//pun off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
8:30 for central time

azoller1 said:
8:30 for central time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lolwut...
Beyond that, i've never understood why the quality of an os is judged on its fancy animations. Truth be told, when given the option, i turn animations off to the highest degree possible.

Interesting re: "full hardware accel" in ICS

Just a blog re: ICS enabling full hardware acceleration of the GUI. We've all figured it would make our tablets sprint but this is putting things in a new light so I figured I'd post it here.
Linky
I'm sure the programmers and people on top of Android out there knew this. It sort of worries me though. Keeping in mind, Apple is running a totally different system - it sort of makes me respect iOS more so, to know that such a smooth system exists within the limits of 256MB of Memory when we're going upwards of 512MB and still having 'issues'. Don't jump down my throat, I don't want iOS (or an idevice), I'm just sayin'.

Jesus. I've known for a long time that there is something wrong with the way Android accelerates stuff and the whole UI design paradigm, but that's just boneheaded o_o That begs the question though: who made the decision to implement acceleration in such a horrible way and why wasn't it designed properly from the get-go? Anyone who has the slightest experience in OpenGL programming would've been able to tell them they're doing it wrong.

What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in OS development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.

FloatingFatMan said:
What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.

You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!

autom8r said:
You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, it is a bad implementation. You can have both a good implementation AND still balance priority of both the rendering queue and application threads, they are not mutually exclusive.

WereCatf said:
Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.

Gnoop said:
If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.

WereCatf said:
The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. Being able to handle both of those would hook me in pretty easily.