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HI!
This might be a stupid question...
During the day my O2 Mini is always connected to my laptop thru the USB sync wire and therefore its keeps getting charged.
Is that in any way harmful for the battery...does it reduce battery life over the long run??
Thanks.
Ujj
ujj75 said:
HI!
This might be a stupid question...
During the day my O2 Mini is always connected to my laptop thru the USB sync wire and therefore its keeps getting charged.
Is that in any way harmful for the battery...does it reduce battery life over the long run??
Thanks.
Ujj
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No not Lithium Ion batteries. In fact it is better to charge the battery as often as possible.
is that fact? i cant believe it.
It is the way the battery is designed, there is logic in the battery that cuts off voltage when the peak is reached as far as I know.
Thanks cruisin-thru and skjelnes .
If you let them go flat for any length of time, they die completely.
USB charging control
Still this whole battery charging and technology issue is quite ambiguous. No one can really guarantee that there is a clear answer. For instance why do you have to give the battery an initial 8-hour charging if it is a new generation battery?
In any case it would be interesting to know how the charging control works. There are some options:
- It can be controlled by a circuit which cuts off power at a certain level of charge (no way to play with this option).
- It may be controlled by software which would be great because one could (easily) interfere with it. In this case there must be some kind of relay switch controlled by the operating system.
- It could also be not controlled. In this case the battery never stops charging. Only the indication changes when a battery meter reaches a certain level. This looks more likely to be the case as the initial 8-hour charging might mean keeping the battery under voltage during the initial charge as even though the indication states that it is fully charged the charger is not disconnected by any control system.
Does anyone have some solid information on the above assumptions?
Note: I tried to isolate the power pin of the USB cable in order to prevent the device from charging but then it was not recognized by the USB (got a USB connection error). Obviously the power line of the USB is used for connection and signal as well and not only as a optional power supply to the connected device.
I'm currently trying to find something in the registry about charge control....
Maybe Microsoft has hidden a secret option somewhere in there... :?
Anonymous said:
I'm currently trying to find something in the registry about charge control....
Maybe Microsoft has hidden a secret option somewhere in there... :?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, forgot to log in...
Re: USB charging control
savas said:
Does anyone have some solid information on the above assumptions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Find everything you want to know on lithium-ion batteries on batteryuniversity.com
here http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm
and here http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
Serge
A litium-ion battery gets worn from three things:
* Normal use
* Heat
* Full charge
A short while after the Ipod battery dirty secret leaked, I read why the batteries only last for like a year. A NiCd battery HAS to be cycled completely to last as long as possible because of their memory effect. A NiMh battery LIKES to be cycled as completely as possible for longest life.
A Li-Ion battery does not have the memory effect - therefore a lot of people seem to assume that you can charge a Li-Ion battery any way you want. That is not correct... Everyone of you ever used a laptop with a Li-Ion battery every day at work, with the ac-adaptor plugged in knows that the battery is ready for garbage bin after one or two years.
Why? You've almost never used the battery... It's always fully charged... The battery should have lasted much longer you think...
Isidor Buchmann is president at the company Cadex which makes battery chargers. He has got more than 20 years of experience from the battery business.
At the site: http://www.batteryuniversity.com he has written an article where he explains the mechanisms inside a Li-Ion battery and provides tips about how to treat the batteries.
Finally he gives the following advices:
*Don't discharge the battery completley. It's better to discharge the battery a little more than halfe than making a complete discharge.
* Discharge the battery completely and then charge it completely to calibrate the battery meter
* Keep the battery cool
* For long time storage: keep the batteries charged at 40% in the fridge
* Do not use the ac adapter and the battery when the battery is fully charged. Heat and unneccesary charging after the battery is fylly charges destroys the battery
My 2 cents.
// Anders
Re: USB charging control
savas said:
why do you have to give the battery an initial 8-hour charging if it is a new generation battery?
In any case it would be interesting to know how the charging control works. There are some options:
- It can be controlled by a circuit which cuts off power at a certain level of charge (no way to play with this option).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think most questions have been answered, except Magician specific ones, i.e.:-
The Magician has to be initially charged for at least 8 hours to:-
1. Make sure the main battery is fully charged and formed, and charging logic calibrated (future capacity depends on this)
2. Charge the backup battery. Unlike the main battery, this only gets a trickle charge which starts after the main battery is at 100%. So it needs those 8 hours to get to full capacity. Remember to do this if you ever drain the backup battery.
Lithium charging logic is built into the battery, so no way to tamper with the settings. The NiMH backup battery logic will be built into the Magician.
Very interesting reading! I didn't know about the issue with laptop batteries.
Loboman said:
Very interesting reading! I didn't know about the issue with laptop batteries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me niether. I knew exactly how to treat NiCd and NiMh batteries, but when I bought a laptop, I wondered how to treat Li-Ion batteries. After some search I found the info i just presented here.
// Anders
Very interesting information indeed! Just some more comments:
Anders Johnsson said:
*Don't discharge the battery completley. It's better to discharge the battery a little more than halfe than making a complete discharge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anders Johnsson said:
Do not use the ac adapter and the battery when the battery is fully charged. Heat and unneccesary charging after the battery is fylly charges destroys the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ineedtoys said:
Lithium charging logic is built into the battery, so no way to tamper with the settings. The NiMH backup battery logic will be built into the Magician.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK we can easily avoid discharging the battery below 50% or 60% at normal conditions even when traveling through a USB port of our notebook (3rd quote)
We should also avoid a USB connection at a 100% (2nd quote) or even at a 90% (3rd quote) charge level unless we can find a way to cut off the power supply to the battery. The only option would be to find a way to do this from the device, before the internal logic of the battery. As far as I can understand the internal battery logic allows charging whenever connected to a power supply and it only informs somehow the device of the charge level.
OMG.
All this nonsense about batteries.... it's easier to just buy a new battery or a new device after 18 months, rather than let your charging habits be dictated by how batteries like to be tickled!
Easier yes, more expensive too.. Dell sure knows how to charge (!) you for a new batt with built-in subwoofer..
Does it matter if we don't charge it all the way till it's full? If I'm charging it till about 95% and I really need to unplug it. How much damage will it do to my battery?
dacmo said:
Does it matter if we don't charge it all the way till it's full? If I'm charging it till about 95% and I really need to unplug it. How much damage will it do to my battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not following you - I think. If you unplug it at 95% it's a lot better than unplugging it at 100%.
Summary:
Full charge: BAD
Full discharge: BAD
Heat: BAD
Extreme cold: BAD
// Anders
This is the first time that I ever heard that charging up to 100% is bad. I know that leaving it on the charger for extended periods is bad but to say that charging to 100% is bad.. that's absurd!!! :shock:
Hi all, there is a way to turn off the charging function when using USB ,
1-install FdcSoft TaskMgr from here
dotfred.net/TM/FdcSoft_TaskMgrv3.3_WM6.5.cab
2-go to Devices--->$device\BAT1(BAT1 and stop this service
3-thats All
To Use charge restart this service
hey thx for the tips! but after stop the service my o2 keep saying batt low...
Is there any reason why we would want to turn off this service?
I heard that it keeps your battery in good shape
peepe1302 said:
I heard that it keeps your battery in good shape
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not so sure about that... I've always charged both my O2 and the O1 before through usb and the battery has always been fine.
Actually, I even noticed that charging through usb takes longer but once it's charged it also lasts longer (this happened on the O1, haven't made the same comparison on the O2 yet)
Dunno if plugging / unplugging the usb cable too frequently can have some sort of ill effect on the battery life, but it's not like we're plugging it every 10 minutes is it?
Never had a battery problem with a "normal" usb usage and usb charging enabled so far...
Yes but not anymore
peepe1302 said:
I heard that it keeps your battery in good shape
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always good to drink all the juice so the battery don't develop a offline or fake "memory".
Also the multi cell assembly insde the battery praticly don't allow batery memory anymore.
Thx for the reference
Regarding battery life
Hi,
Actually, for a battery it depletes it's life every second. There is no way of preventing this But we can extend the service life. For example the most basic rules:
1-Do not charge your battery unless it is almost empty
2-Avoid deep discharging (this is not possible with a PDA coz it has an early shut down routine)
3-Do not overcharge the battery (also this not possible, coz there is a voltage limiter by hardware)
4-Do not leave your battery in a high temperature environment (for example in a car during summer, we are using chemical-reaction batteries)
the rest is do not puncture, do not short circuit boola boola boola
ok, finally while using your PDA with a USB charging interface, it should stop charging when the battery is full (Even my mother's old nokia doing this)
Plus, how much it costs for a new battery? only few bucks.. ehh.. (not for an original one ofcourse)
PDA batteries, in most cases, are 3.7volts (charging voltage is 5volts by USB) and 1200 to 1500mAh (for the ones who doesnt know what is "mAh": it is the capacity of the battery and it means if you pull for example for a 1300mAh battery, 1300 "mili ampers per hour" it will deplete. Some of my friends they are using 3.7V 2000mAh batteries while their PDAs supplied with 1230mAh batteries, thus, standby time goes up to a week. They are not using their originals ofcourse. I dont understand why manufacturers are not supplying PDAs with these kind of batteries by standart. Even a chinese made battery can be so efficient. (I am using a chinese one, my original battery is 1300mAh, i could find 1500mAh same battery)
I spoke to my friends, they are not charging their 2000mAh batteries via USB/charger while battery is in the phone. Because there is an internal electrical resistance of every battery. May be PDA's battery charging circuit get damaged! Because of this if you plan to use a high capacity battery, charge it seperately by using another charging equipment.
Finally when you want to sell out your PDA install the original battery (which you have never used before hehe ) and get a higher price
This might be some really big idiotic question, but what if the service is down and the battery drains and the phone shuts itself off, will it turn on by connecting the charger to the phone?
I ask this because with the service off even the real phone charger wont work (at least while it is on)!
houssam10001 said:
Hi all, there is a way to turn off the charging function when using USB ,
1-install FdcSoft TaskMgr from here
dotfred.net/TM/FdcSoft_TaskMgrv3.3_WM6.5.cab
2-go to Devices--->$device\BAT1(BAT1 and stop this service
3-thats All
To Use charge restart this service
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just did what you said, and now the device\BAT1(BAT1 completely disappear! How am i supose to turn it on again now?
And no, i obviously didn't delect it, i just stoped the service and it vanished from the damn list!
im very interested in this but how can you restart the charging service?
For example if i leave all night charging, does it damage the battery? Some batteries after fullycharged, they wont charge anymore. What about u8800?
And what happens if i charge while phone is open and not fully empty? Does it damage?
My charge lasts 16 hours, why is it? I dont use wifi, games, etc. Please help
All ROMs should stop the charging process when reached 100% (the icon changes, on the stock ROM the flash disappears of the icon), therefore I believe that the battery cannot be damaged by leaving the phone plugged in the whole night.
I'm sure that it doesn't matter when you recharge the phone, if it's 10% or 50% it makes no difference to the charging process or the battery. It use to matter on the Li-Nch batteries, but those are long gone...
The fact that the battery only lasts 16 hours, it's an unrelated problem, that I've been struggling with for months now...It's one of the system/hardware components that hangs and doesn't allow the phone to go to sleep...therefore, the battery lasts up to 24h.
Look at this thread, so many users are affected by this...probably most of them and only the recent kernels (.void/Miui) have measures against this problem.http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1043760
I did not make any rom differences or overclock. Still stops the charging?
Sometimes i charge from pc via usb, can it damage?
It goes 16 hours without wifi or blueetooth or 3g. I dont use too much but goes for 16 hours.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1043760
Here, it is about sleeping mode. My phone goes black screen after 15 seconds idle. What is sleeping mode?
Cursed Chico said:
I did not make any rom differences or overclock. Still stops the charging?
Sometimes i charge from pc via usb, can it damage?
It goes 16 hours without wifi or blueetooth or 3g. I dont use too much but goes for 16 hours.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1043760
Here, it is about sleeping mode. My phone goes black screen after 15 seconds idle. What is sleeping mode?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging from USB is somewhat preferable to wall charger, due to it charging slower, therefore generating less heat. Although, a wall charger won't do any harm. When the screen is off and the phone is not doing anything, the CPU is suppose to go into a deep sleep state, yet with this phone it does not.
wall charging should be preferable in my experience
Ok, let me clarify a few things here.
The battery recharging process is simple, when the battery reaches 2.2V, then the current inside is not enough to sustain the hardware and it's considered empty. Any standard phone charger, will pump current until the voltage is 4.3 and then the so called "negative delta v" signal is being sent and the charger stops pumping.
USB is a BUS designed to carry data, but to be able to carry data it needs to provide a power supply to the connected device. Therefore, any USB should be able to deliver 5V and 500mA to any device connected.
As this phone's battery, according to the wall charger specification, takes up to 1Amp, the simple math tells us that the wall charger will charge the battery twice as fast. Since I've been dealing with batteries, I can tell you that in this case USB charger is a much better choice to recharge this battery, as it delivers only 500mA. The less current going through the electrodes, the lower the chance of damaging the battery due to high temperature.
For more info:
http://www.mpoweruk.com/chargers.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_charger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
According to Wikipedia:
"Most modern cell phones, laptops, and most electric vehicles use Lithium-ion batteries. These batteries last longest if the battery is frequently charged; fully discharging them will degrade their capacity relatively quickly.[23] When storing however, lithium batteries degrade more while fully charged than if they are only 40% charged. Degradation also occurs faster at higher temperatures. Degradation in lithium-ion batteries is caused by an increased internal battery resistance due to cell oxidation. This decreases the efficiency of the battery, resulting in less net current available to be drawn from the battery."
These batteries last longest if the battery is frequently charged; fully discharging them will degrade their capacity relatively quickly.
So we must usually charge from usb and must stop before reaching %100 charge, maybe %98?
But when connect to pc, there is an icon shown, before disconnecting we need to click "disconnect secure" icon on system tray, if i dont do, it damages the system of phone?
Cursed Chico said:
But when connect to pc, there is an icon shown, before disconnecting we need to click "disconnect secure" icon on system tray, if i dont do, it damages the system of phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a very small chance on XP, dunno about vista, no harm on win7.
So we should usually charge from usb and must stop before reaching %100 charge, maybe %98?
It is more safe since there is half of the current that passes compered to Charging with the AC adapter. But it theoretically takes almost double time.
Cursed Chico said:
So we should usually charge from usb and must stop before reaching %100 charge, maybe %98?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. But, I wouldn't worry about stopping before 100%. I know for sure that the stock ROMs are stopping the charging process when reached 100%.
Cursed Chico said:
But when connect to pc, there is an icon shown, before disconnecting we need to click "disconnect secure" icon on system tray, if i dont do, it damages the system of phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.You're not going to damage anything by disconnecting the cable directly. That "safe disconnect" is only for data transfer, nothing to do with charging.
Because of the exploding nature of li-ion cells when misused, the battery itself has a protection circuit to prevent overcharge and discharge. So whatever how much the rom wants to charge, the battery will protect itself...
Exactly; the ROM does not have any influence on the charging process - that is why your phone can charge the battery even though it is turned off. The whole process is completely independent from the software your phone is running.
In 2011 it is very hard to damage a battery, it will most likely die from old age. There is just one thing that is not the best thing to do: Trying to switch on the phone when the battery is empty already. If the voltage of the battery drops below a certain point, the battery might be damaged and thus have less capacity afterwards.
To be on the safe side I always turn off the phone a few minutes before the battery is completely empty.
I agree that there is a separate circuit that does the charging, so no matter if the phone is on or off, battery would still charge. But, I believe that the Rom can interfere with the charging process, that's why on some Roms you get the flashing buttons when phone is fully charged or sometimes you can't unlock the phone from the first attempt, when battery is full.
In reality, i believe that charging process has 2 control points, the default (when phone is switched on) and the "failsafe" one that charges the phone when voltage has dropped below a certain value (which has to be is different in terms of current values, as there is no power consumption).
My android tablet suddenly died on me and refuses to power up. Unable to charge the battery as well.
Am thinking of removing the battery from the tablet and then hooking up a lipo charger to the black and red wires on the circuit board. Hopefully this can power it on directly without the battery.
This is a simple and inexpensive lipo charger I'm looking at:
www[dot]sgbotic[dot]com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=999
Few concerns that I have:
Can the lipo charger be used as a direct power supply? I know voltage-wise, it's safe (3.7V). But I'm not sure if circuitry-wise, a charger works the same way as a power supply
Is 500mA current output from the charger enough to power on the tablet? If not, what is the recommended current output?
How do I know if the tablet has any logic to detect the presence of a battery? From what I see on the circuit board, there are only 2 black+red connectors (no data connector or anything)
A proper battery should less than that $15 charger. Even if you did bypass the battery you should be able to find a less expensive power supply.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Spoo76 said:
A proper battery should less than that $15 charger. Even if you did bypass the battery you should be able to find a less expensive power supply.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It uses a 12000mAh battery, which I think cost $40-60. The thing is, I'm not sure whether the issue lies with the battery. So i thought of bypassing the battery and see if it is a circuit board problem.
Here's the "tablet" I have. It's actually the viewing panel of my digital door viewer. Essentially a stripped down Android tablet:
www[dot]rollupcn.com/index.php/iHome4/show/19.html
Btw here're the pics of how the battery and the mainboard look like:
https[colon]//d3nevzfk7ii3be[dot]cloudfront.net/igi/SYJVWTdAPAPBRVCG
https[colon]//d3nevzfk7ii3be[dot]cloudfront.net/igi/q52LQk2X1s6NOaTK
Thing is - I'm not sure if the problem lies with the battery or the mainboard. Any suggestion on how to troubleshoot?
If you want to hack your Power from battery to directly input,
but fails to bypass battery check.
I have a idea that works. (some electricity knowledge required)
You can use a capacitor to "cheat" PMIC, and running on usb cable power.
Go buy a super capacitor (a 4.0F V-type should be OK.)
Charge it with the working voltage. (a few seconds is enough for that.)
Then remove your battery. Strip off the battery controller that you'll need.
Find out the positive and negative on it.(Important!)
And connect the charged super capacitor with battery controller, and put it back battery slot (It's small and fits)
And you can boot on cable power without battery!
In case you still look for a solution, I would connect a functioning Li-Ion battery, either 18650 or from another phone with at least 2000mAh capacity and hook a single cell Li-Ion charger with at least 1A rating.
Things to consider:
- the charger is likely to be noisy and needs a battery to smooth out the wave. It may or may not be an issue. Having a battery connected will dampen it down.
- connecting a smaller battery and powering the tablet via USB may dump too much current into the battery
- the tablet may draw up to 4A on boot, probably 800mA min, so your charger will need a full battery as a backup
- don't use a charger for a different battery chemistry. There is a chance of damage or even fire.
- some devices use I2C interface to talk to the BMS, but this is unlikely in your case
- make sure the temp battery you are using has a BMS
Why does my tablet turn on when I plugin the charger? Why can't I charge it with the power off and not driaining the battery? The answer is simple. Just about all of todays tablet use "Smart Charging" in order to charge the battery faster. But to do that, there is an app in the firmware to read the temp and voltage level of the battery to regulate the charge rate. But to run that app, the device MUST BE ON!!!