what is stopping development on newer phones. is it possible to root this phone at all? i am willing to help in any way possible to make it happen. i have a few years programming experience and would love to learn. is there anyone who could help me understand what needs done?
The trouble is with some carriers or manufacturers, carriers make it harder/impossible to unlock bootloader, and manufacturers, well, mtk is problem for itself but take example of k8 from 2016 there is algorithm that checks if it was tampered with kernel or system and phone simply refuse to boot. Also in most cases there is a way to root the phone but if phone is not so popular (most of mid-range LG phones) people who have skills doesn't bother with them and also because they have to own device to root properly it or to make custom ROM.
I will furnish a known developer with this model phone if needed. I can buy them for 40 bucks. Its a nice phone. Quad core and 16gb. Has qualcomm gpu. Phone doesnt lag unless an app is crashing ect
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Hello,
Im currently writing an academic paper on android and openness in my master's programme. If all goes well, it will be submitted for a conference soon.
I'm looking for your opinions on having an android device open for operating system level modifications or not. As you may know, some phones have a signed bootloader such as the Motorola Milestone, t-mobile g2 (who made the phone reinstall stock OS when breached), and probably many others. Google however, make their devices open, even though they are sold as consumer devices. Many others do not bother to install circumvention mechanics.
Obviously, the people here will be biased towards allowing modification to the OS, therefore, i would like to get a discussion going, to discern what problems and possibilities you see in the long run for hardware manufacturers.
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
I would really appericiate your opinions and discussion!
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
As a beginner app developer, this has yet to bother me. I do enjoy being able to add apps that add functionality to my phone but I haven't bothered to get down into the "root" area. So no I do not check nor does it impact my decision...I own a Samsung fascinate by the way
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
My opinion on measures to prevent changes is all about PR and performance. If enough people hacked a phone and the hack caused the phone to work below is ability then the only news report you will see is the phone sucks.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
This is also a give and take if question 2 is not of a concern to them, then its def a gain for the company and to all of the developers out there that do search for the best phone and nick pick around until they find it.
Are there enough of those kind of people out there to affect a companies buttom line. Maybe not yet but in another couple of years who knows.
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
It hasnt yet been a deciding factor on which device to get, primarily because sooner or later they all get cracked open.
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
One reason could be that the carriers demand it as a way to keep any revenue that they get from the preinstalled bloatware.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
The percentage of people that actually tinker in this area is very slim, so the manufacturers most likely don't see that as a big market opportunity.
Don't have any answers, but would like to read your paper when done...sounds interesting and a Masters Thesis is always fun to read! LOL
It's not a thesis, just a short article. I might make a survey for it but I need to ask the right questions.
Not all devices get fully customized, root is common, but in my phone for example it is not possible to load a custom kernel, as the bootloader checks for signed code (Motorola's secret key). There's been a massive uproar from the owners of the Milestone, as people didn't expect to be hustled like that when getting an android phone. The main problem is of course, that Motorola takes a long time to release updates. Even as of today, Froyo has still not been released for my phone by Motorola.
While I am not sure about it, I suspect Sony Ericsson X10i owners are in the same boat, and they will get a really rotten deal, seeing as 2.1 has been officially declared the last version the device will recieve. Yet, an enthusiast could release a perfectly fine version of 2.3 if the phone accepted custom firmware and he had access to drivers etc.
So basically, you buy a piece of hardware that is very capable, but The Company decides for you which software you could run.
Imagine if you bought a Windows Vista PC right before Windows 7 was released, and the only way you could get Windows 7 on it was if that particular PC manufacturer released an official update containing all it's bloatware and applications you don't want. Since the update needs to go through all kinds of verifications and approvals, it might be delayed for a half a year, or maybe 9 months, after the new OS release. Why do we accept this on our phones and tablets?
Hi,
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
For me personally, yes, most definately. I like to be able to get in and play, see how things work, change stuff. And i think custom ROMs IMO are a big drawcard of Android.
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
To try and ensure the device works as they want it to. Minimise support costs etc.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
Definately. Encourages improvement of existing features, and development of new stuff beyond the manufacturers initial product scope, which can be integrated in future products.
Android OS its self is an example of this - the developer community is writing apps, logging bugs, and contributing code to the benefit of future releases of Android, which in turn benefits device manufacturers.
- jc
my two cents
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your decision?
>> Personally, I feel like the ability to modify my phone at the core level is something I as a power user can use to tailor my phone's experience in the way I need to make it the most efficient device it can be. This is especially necessary as my phone is my primary connectivity device (I really only use my laptop for things the phone just really isn't capable of handling yet, such as video conversion)
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
I think this is less the decision of the manufacturers and more of the carriers themselves. This really is because each device has to be tailored to be sold to the average user, rather than power users (read: 85-90% of people who will read this reply) and as a result is designed with an experience in mind. To the suits, anyone who take a phone that is supposed to have a specific experience in mind, and changes that, it becomes a different phone, and anyone who looks at that phone will see that. This means, TMo/HTC can't sell a G2, because everything that my office mates will see when they look at my phone is my android customizations, not a G2. my office mate, who is shopping for a phone, can get an android phone anywhere... but they can only get a /G2/ from TMo/HTC. Similarly, if I like my G2 experience, when i get a new phone, i will be more inclined to continue enjoying that experience with a G3, rather than buying any on sale android phone and making it just like my last one. Hence the need to have a G2 experience on every G2 phone. Just my 2 cents. I am not a businessman, lawyer, or doctor.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
Yes, but nowhere near as much as they can get by keeping their cards close to their hand. see my answer to number 2.
whats the reasoning behind limiting areas such as the USA Canada and Sweden to the Snapdragon 600 instead of giving them the Octa
2 reasons :
I. they cannot mass product the octa chip yet.
2. Until a few days ago, the octa did not support LTE chip for 4g. The above mentioned countries all support LTE.
If they cant provide enough chips for the device they want then they should pick a different chip and use that or just make less handsets. I hate it when manufacturers make several different versions of a device. It fragments development why not just make a single device and have a units d development force for a single device. Sadly I'll never understand manufacturers
Sent from uber hacked GS3
jack_slapped said:
If they cant provide enough chips for the device they want then they should pick a different chip and use that or just make less handsets. I hate it when manufacturers make several different versions of a device. It fragments development why not just make a single device and have a units d development force for a single device. Sadly I'll never understand manufacturers
Sent from uber hacked GS3
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I'm pretty sure the only "development" device manufacturers are interested in is the development they do themselves. Although they do know XDA (and similar) forums exist, they don't openly support or condone any of their devices being modified in any way by anyone but the OEM manufacturer. Also, 99.5% of most people that purchase a device don't know or care what chips are used in them as long as thy work. So I highly doubt the manufacturing methods used will ever change. Basically, if it works for the manufacturer, that is all they care about.
I haven`t seen any dev support for the mini model...Will we ever get a bootloader unlock or even just root?
ntrambitas12 said:
I haven`t seen any dev support for the mini model...Will we ever get a bootloader unlock or even just root?
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No, different SOC and kernel, the Axon 7 and Axon 7 Mini only share a name, otherwise they are completely different devices.
Patience, if it sells well enough and after ZTE releases the kernel source code we will see some activity... how much will vary on how well it sells, but when it's on sale for $199 it's a serious bargain and hopefully some devs will snag it up and bring some basic root/roms to the device.
With off-brand and low volume devices this will likely become less and less common though, with Marshmallow and newer OS's root and romming is being much more difficult. Even chainfire (primary developer of SuperSU) has said rooting stock devices probably won't even be an option within 2 to 3 years, and that the reality is Google could shut down all known rooting methods if they wanted too (which, luckily that doesn't seem to be a priority for them, or even on their radar at the moment).
id say no and it doesn't look like there will be much if any development at all on the mini. id just buy the regular axon 7.
Here in this forum we discussed a lot about the Android upgrade issue and the facts, that we don't get the source codes. I thought it's Xiaomi's fault, other say it's Mediatek's fault. I still don't know. I just know that I want to get a new phone instead of that crappy device. So I checked for alternatives and discovered the Umi Z.
It looked interesting and not too expensive but when I read a review there was a point saying something about Android Updates. The Umi Z has MM and on their social media or website they announced, that the Umi Z will get an update to Nougat, but the problem is, that Mediatek didn't release the source codes yet to allow them to update their Android.
So that sounds very familiar and weird. Is Mediatek really so obsessed with their source codes and why do they do that? I mean, what do they lose? This kind of behaviour would rather make people stay away from Mediatek devices. But I guess there are enough people just happy without custom roms, updates and source codes.
Can it be, that Umi just said that to blame someone else for lack of updates? The difference between Umi and Xiaomi is that Umi has a normal Android surface and not an own like Miui. But at least they keep their customers up-to-date, inform them and show interest in updating. And they announced, that they plan an update for April. I don't know how they can be confident but I wouldn't wonder if they won't get their update in April, May or June.
So in conclusion, I think it's the fault of both, Xiaomi and Mediatek and I want to stay away from both in future. I'm thinking about getting a Sony, or if I get a chinese brand again then a Snapdragon and for sure no Xiaomi!
The answer to this is we are dealing with "fabless" companies i.e. they do not actually make anything themselves but outsource to companies that do.
It is the miriad of screens, sensors etc, that cause the problems with Android upgrades, not the use of MTK or Qualcomm SoC. MTK does release source code (occassionally) - users are disappointed when they find that it is almost useless because it does not include vendor blobs for their specific hardware platform - that is the fault of the vendor - not MTK. We have had MTK source for MT6795 for a long time now.
At least some China phone brands like UMI (but definitely excluding Xiaomi) have truth in their advertising and go to lengths to point out what brand and model of ancillary parts go into making the whole
My concerns about ROMs are exacerbated by the outcome of this attempt to host an official UMI ROM and also this attempt. If the report is true, one might presume that perhaps UMI have a good reason to seek to prevent people from hosting their official ROMs, but it still makes me wary ...
hi I'm very new to this android rooting world. from what I've gathered it's highly useful. I'm looking to root my Samsung s8 sm-g950u can it be done without bricking it. I have a PC Windows 10 to download the needed things. my wife has the one plus 3t. if i stay with android I'm considering my options with phones. I understand the one plus brand and google pixel among some others are very useful.. some being easier to root also more stable than others. all of what I know is through reading. if I do buy another android what the best for a beginner. I'm not looking to over clock. just stream line the phone. gather some useful apps. basically learn have fun and explore.
warphoenix30 said:
hi I'm very new to this android rooting world. from what I've gathered it's highly useful. I'm looking to root my Samsung s8 sm-g950u can it be done without bricking it. I have a PC Windows 10 to download the needed things. my wife has the one plus 3t. if i stay with android I'm considering my options with phones. I understand the one plus brand and google pixel among some others are very useful.. some being easier to root also more stable than others. all of what I know is through reading. if I do buy another android what the best for a beginner. I'm not looking to over clock. just stream line the phone. gather some useful apps. basically learn have fun and explore.
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Click to collapse
Sure, you can do it without bricking the phone
But, since S8 is a samsung phone, it is better for you to know the drawback of rooting your phone, mainly because the Knox getting tripped. Some of it (like, secure folder or instant login from browser) will be unable to be used anymore.
warphoenix30 said:
hi I'm very new to this android rooting world. from what I've gathered it's highly useful. I'm looking to root my Samsung s8 sm-g950u can it be done without bricking it. I have a PC Windows 10 to download the needed things. my wife has the one plus 3t. if i stay with android I'm considering my options with phones. I understand the one plus brand and google pixel among some others are very useful.. some being easier to root also more stable than others. all of what I know is through reading. if I do buy another android what the best for a beginner. I'm not looking to over clock. just stream line the phone. gather some useful apps. basically learn have fun and explore.
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If its a US 950 U knox cannot be tripped battery only charges to 80% samsung pay does not work
Also in setting about phone and software information and or base band We need to know what firmware you are running now As root is only possible up to a revision 2 bootloader anything higher cannot be rooted or downgraded to root
Well honestly I won't own another one of these. They can't have tempered glass. I dont really use the features that help these sell. Just looking to remove the bloatware and take more control over the phone. The hardware is nice. I'd rather be using a high end flagship vanilla android.
Baseband version is G950USQS5CRF5.
Sounds like I should be using a android that more root friendly. Which would be better? One plus. LG or google pixel?
StardustGeass said:
Sure, you can do it without bricking the phone
But, since S8 is a samsung phone, it is better for you to know the drawback of rooting your phone, mainly because the Knox getting tripped. Some of it (like, secure folder or instant login from browser) will be unable to be used anymore.[/QUOTE
I dont use secure folder. Mayne I don't know enough about it to know if I should be if i need to. I really trying use my pc more for things then my phone. So some of these these if i end up rooting or being able to root it. I probably won't miss. Or maybe I'm not anwarw of why I have to be missing them.
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