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Does anyone have experience using 3rd party chargers with the Treo Pro or HTC devices in general?
I've purchased a kensington 4-port USB wall charger. It's an interesting concept which allows you to plug in up to 4 USB cables (iPods, iPhones, Treo Pro) and only use one outlet. A neat trick when you have multiple phones and devices in your family.
My problem is that the kensington won't charge the Treo Pro. When I plug it in, the LCD lights up, but the charge indicator does not appear nor does the tone sound that it has been plugged in. Note, as far as I can tell the Treo Pro charger outputs 5v DC exactly the same as the Kensington charger.
I've read several posts that lead me to believe that HTC does something to their devices that only allow certain chargers to work or that their USB cables have a certain pin-out that allows them to charge. Anyone have any advice?
Thanks!
Well, I got my wall charger and car charger from Officemax. The charger brand is "Just Wireless". Both are working fine for me. Before, I tried to use the sync cable to plug the regular USB power adapter for wall or car charger, some work, some don't. It seems Palm modified the micro-usb cable...
So my suggestion, if you are looking for charger for Treo Pro, you should look for compable with Moto R9 (which using micro-usb plug, too) I used to have one Moto charger, It worked in my Treo Pro!
jbinmn said:
My problem is that the kensington won't charge the Treo Pro. When I plug it in, the LCD lights up, but the charge indicator does not appear nor does the tone sound that it has been plugged in. Note, as far as I can tell the Treo Pro charger outputs 5v DC exactly the same as the Kensington charger.
I've read several posts that lead me to believe that HTC does something to their devices that only allow certain chargers to work or that their USB cables have a certain pin-out that allows them to charge. Anyone have any advice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's really nothing "special" going on here. It's all in the USB spec. http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power
That said, there are few other devices that demand a dedicated charger (or a communicating host), so in that sense it is special.
The problem being that the TP won't draw more power than agreed upon with the host (or in this case the carger). And since your charger doesn't tell the Treo that is has power to spare, the Treo trying being a good little device won't start charging.
Now, for the charger to tell the Treo that it is, in fact, a dedicated charger and "go ahead, draw as much power as you want up to 1.8A" it would only have to short its data pins.
Now that is something YOU could do to get the charger to work with your Treo. Either open the charger and solder the data pins (the two middle ones in a normal sized usb socket). Or if you can't for some reason, slice a micro-usb cable open and short the two data (usually the thinnest (green/white maybe)) wires inside.
I got a couple of desktop chargers from ebay for about £8 each. Work fine.
frause said:
There's really nothing "special" going on here. It's all in the USB spec. http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power
That said, there are few other devices that demand a dedicated charger (or a communicating host), so in that sense it is special.
The problem being that the TP won't draw more power than agreed upon with the host (or in this case the carger). And since your charger doesn't tell the Treo that is has power to spare, the Treo trying being a good little device won't start charging.
Now, for the charger to tell the Treo that it is, in fact, a dedicated charger and "go ahead, draw as much power as you want up to 1.8A" it would only have to short its data pins.
Now that is something YOU could do to get the charger to work with your Treo. Either open the charger and solder the data pins (the two middle ones in a normal sized usb socket). Or if you can't for some reason, slice a micro-usb cable open and short the two data (usually the thinnest (green/white maybe)) wires inside.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!
Yep i just bought two kensington 4 port chargers and looks like it doesnt charge the TP
Im about to buy a microusb cable to do the trick you suggested, (i cant seem to open the Kensington 4 port!), any reference websites you could suggest that could explain abit more about the shorting of the data wires inside? Just like to read up abit more before the cable arrives
Thanks!
shorting two center pins solves problem
Thank you for the details. I was able to get two car chargers to work with Palm cables after opening them up and shorting the middle pins with a dab of solder. I opened up a non-Palm cable and discovered only two wires, red and white, and no surprise: it did not work even with the "fixed" adapters. So you need to have pins shorted, and a cable that can return the short to the Treo from the adapter, or if you have a cable with all leads inside you could short the two wires instead and leave the adapter alone. However, if you only have two wires inside the cable you would have to short inside the micro plug, which is a little cramped to work in. If you have only two wires in your cable (hard to tell really without cutting it open; too small to get a continuity probe in there), and/or an adapter without the pins shorted, the Treo will not pull current and charge itself.
The Wikipedia USB Spec referenced by frause above says in part:
" A Dedicated Charging Port can supply a maximum of 1.8*A of current at 5.25*V. A portable device can draw up to 1.8*A from a Dedicated Charging Port. The Dedicated Charging Port shorts the D+ and D- pins with a resistance of at most 200O. The short disables data transfer, but allows devices to detect the Dedicated Charging Port and allows very simple, high current chargers to be manufactured."
An interpretation of the reported observations and this spec is that a charger can communicte to the device under charge the maximum current the charger is able to supply. This communication occurs by the charger either "shorting" the data pins or not. Non-shorted data pins indicates that the charger is capable of at most 500 mA. Its possible that the Treo Pro(TP) is smart enough to know it should conserve power when being charged from a low current charger. One way for the TP to conserve power would be to not power the LED on the TP if there is only 500 mA available for charging.
NOTE THAT IF THIS INTERPRETATION IS TRUE THEN IT IS ACTUALLY DISADVANTAGEOUS TO ARTIFICIALLY SHORT THE DATA PINS.
I didn't buy the HTC extended battery but one from amazon sold by Karen Deals. Link is below
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0NVM3EA1B2VE9HN3AKMA
Battery
Model No: cs-ht8585xl
Part No: 35h000128-00m, ba s400
Rating: 3.7v 2400mah
Lithium Ion
Induction Unit
Palm Pixi charging back with Palm touchstone charging dock
Operating System
Shubcraft 1.4d
Video:
Images are attached below!
Induction charging has the same charging speed as plugging it into a wall outlet. Very fast!
Sidenote:
I tried using a multimeter with the 3 contacts located under the battery and could not get it to register anything (with and without the charger plugged in). I then tried shooting 5v through it using 6 different combination (2 plugs for 3 contacts) and still couldn't get anything. If anyone knows a way to use these 3 contacts for charging please leave feedback. Also if anyone can find a minature microusb male connection that'd be great.
Well done, it's a really nice mod!
The 2400 mAh is a bit too bulky for me, though the extended uptime must be awesome. I'd even consider something similar, were it not that you're using the microusb to charge. If only you could connect it straight to the battery, would be so much more convenient. It'd still work in for instance car kits and attached to a pc.
Never the less, well done.
Looks great, i would try this myself but i cant stand the bulk of extended batteries and the stock metal back would almost defiantly interfere with the current. Where did you get the decal from?
Angelusz said:
Well done, it's a really nice mod!
The 2400 mAh is a bit too bulky for me, though the extended uptime must be awesome. I'd even consider something similar, were it not that you're using the microusb to charge. If only you could connect it straight to the battery, would be so much more convenient. It'd still work in for instance car kits and attached to a pc.
Never the less, well done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't plug in directly to the battery since the battery doesn't have a balancer board on it and it would explode if it were to be overcharged without one.
JJbdoggg said:
Looks great, i would try this myself but i cant stand the bulk of extended batteries and the stock metal back would almost defiantly interfere with the current. Where did you get the decal from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the decal in the automotive section of Walmart. It came with 2 big/4small stickers for 7usd
UPDATE: Made the microusb head smaller! Letting liquid electrical tape dry then I'll post pics.
this is a really nice mod. what about the possiblly of going via the nav panel connectors instead of micro usb. this would as far as i know leave the usb port free and also not have the disadvantage of having a usb connector attached which can be easily damged.
Personalyu i wouldnt do this mod as i use my phone to tether a hell of a lot so it seems pointless to me, but being able to just sit your phone down and have it charge is awesome.
Great work!!!!
veda_sticks said:
this is a really nice mod. what about the possiblly of going via the nav panel connectors instead of micro usb. this would as far as i know leave the usb port free and also not have the disadvantage of having a usb connector attached which can be easily damged.
Personalyu i wouldnt do this mod as i use my phone to tether a hell of a lot so it seems pointless to me, but being able to just sit your phone down and have it charge is awesome.
Great work!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tired the navpanel connections with no success. If anyone has a multimeter please try to do it to theirs (with charger plugged in).
that is really odd....only think i can think of is manye theres something that needs to happen with the middle pin.
nice work i think that decal are very cute indeed!
PPL this is knowed from a long time! This pins are used for example with Car Kit like CU s400: http://www.slashgear.com/htc-hd2-cu-s400-car-kit-gets-priced-detailed-coming-december-1360143/
This car kit is in two versions: like this on 1st photo - use other battery cover which use this "mysterious" pins to run NaviPanel and charging battery and 2nd version with charging via microUSB port.
I hope this helps a bit.
veda_sticks said:
that is really odd....only think i can think of is manye theres something that needs to happen with the middle pin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This "odd" middle pin you can find in every phone battery too. If you depart any battery you can find there a little electronic circuit.
I think, that this pin is used to metering battery charge, but i can be wrong - im not advanced in electornics.
I'm well aware of the existance of these products but cannot figure out what the three contacts below the batteries are.
Maybe some users having one. In that case he/she can make photos of all connectors or better - check it with multimeter which connector is +, - and this middle one.
Maybe some service manuals can tell something more abt this. I searched for it and i did'nt find nothing useful.
FRANQ_23_PL said:
Maybe some users having one. In that case he/she can make photos of all connectors or better - check it with multimeter which connector is +, - and this middle one.
Maybe some service manuals can tell something more abt this. I searched for it and i did'nt find nothing useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also did a search on google and xda but with no luck. I don't think it inputs 5v into the machine since I did shoot 5v into the 3 connectors using different combination.
Hi all,
The contact closest to the center of the phone (looking along the longest axis of the phone) is the +5V, the one furthest from the +5V is the ground, and there's a small voltage on the center contact, positive to ground. These +5V voltage shows up (on my phone) only when the mini-USB charger is plugged in.
I've got the +5V terminal of the Pre plate attached to the +5V contact on the phone, and the other one attached to the GND contact. Inductive charging works at 341ma (as measure by the hardware and read by BattClock) at maximum, which is probably not coincidentally also the limit set on USB charging, at least from my laptop.
I tried hooking the Touchstone up to a Apple ~1" cubed charger, didn't get any charge. I haven't read the USB power specifications, but according to the people at the Palm forums you have to have a USB spec power-capable charger to initialize the Touchstone, and the USB ICs signal this by connecting the two data lines. This can be approximated by clipping a USB cable and twisting the data lines together on the Touchstone side of the cable. This allowed the Apple charger to power the Touchstone.
The HTC stock charger works fine, as does an 800ma Verizon charger I had laying around. I tried hooking the Touchstone up to both a [email protected] switching charger and a 5V 8A supply, the Touchstone still charged at 341ma. I'm guessing this is software, firmware or hardware limited, just like the computer USB connection. I would speculate that if you shorted the middle pin to the ground pin, it might remove this restriction. Or fry your phone, I didn't try it.
There's a guy on the Pre forums who got the Touchstone to consume about 1.02A (http://forums.precentral.net/palm-p...b-adapters-touchstone-dock-2.html#post2020491) so the thing can, apparently transfer some power. I don't know how long it would last at those wattages, but I'm going to read a bit on the USB power spec and see if the 341ma limit can be lifted.
It's kind of nice to use the internal connector, because it leaves the microUSB port open. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. With the relevant portion of the Pre cover stuck to the back of my phone, there are no wires out of the chassis and the added part doesn't add any considerable bulk to the phone. It protrudes less than the camera.
Anyways, hope this isn't a thread-jack or too long, but I figured it might help anyone that's going to take the time to do this.
Thanks to the community here.
Did you dremel and hotglue the plastic case to the metal case? Interweb highfive from me to you!
Can you post pictures of the inside wiring please?
I did. I basically cut out a square from the HD2 back large enough to hold the coiled length of wire that is needed to allow the back to be removed and articulated. Then I used Super Glue to fix the section of the Pre back containing the inductive coil and circuitry to the HD2 back.
If you're trying to maintain your warranty I might suggest DigiKey part number 478-4687-1-ND, it's from the AVX "MOBO Spring Contact Interconnect Solutions" catalog under battery connectors (I can send you a .pdf copy of the catalog, it's too big to upload to forum). This is a 3mm pitch connector that should mate well with the internal connector - but - I don't have calipers so I would measure before ordering. I just soldered the wires to my HD2.
I'll post some pictures soonish.
And yeah, high five for sure. Thanks for pioneering this. My last phone was retired when the power connector became flaky, so it's nice not to have to worry about the contact wearing out.
Ur mod is on a dutch popular website!
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/69360/mod-maakt-draadloos-laden-mogelijk-op-htc-hd2.html
Right angle micro-usb
I'm looking to do the same thing with my Vibrant and have been searching for a similar connector. I just did a quick google search and found these angled connectors:
http://www.usbfirewire.com/u_microb_cables_angled.html
I tried soldering it your way with no sucess
Soldering pins are as shown
(If viewing vertically with top up)
(leftside of hd2) negative x positive (center of hd2)
bumping an old thread to see if you've taken pictures of the contact points yet.
Sorry it took me so long to reply. Two pictures, the first is the terminal with the wires soldered in, the second shows how I got the cables from the Palm coil/board through the cover. The terminals as you look along the longest axis of the phone with the microUSB plug closest to you are GND, something, and +5v.
So from left to right: 1 GND / 2 ? / 3 +5v.
Hi. I've solved the problem of using other chargers with GT.
Like Apple, Samsung used a little trick with their chargers.
To charge your GT with any usb charger you have to make a little adapter.
Usb pinout:
gnd d- d+ 5v
To work you must short d+ and d-.
From 5v use a 33k resistor to d+/d-.
From gnd use a 10k resistor to d+/d-.
If you have multimeter you should obtain ~4v between 5v and d+/d-; and ~1v between gnd and d+/d-.
I tested it and it's working.
Hi, it's not a trick but a standard. You only need to short d+ with d-, the resistors are not needed. Just be sure that the charger outputs closest to 5v possible, around 5.2~3 usually work for everything. About 5.6v and it start not to work on some devices, like apple..
Maybe, I have to test that
I know it's not a trick, I should wrote "trick".
For example GT adapter outputs 5.31v.
Apple adapter worked with 1 22k resistor between d- d+.
WarlockM said:
Hi. I've solved the problem of using other chargers with GT.
Like Apple, Samsung used a little trick with their chargers.
To charge your GT with any usb charger you have to make a little adapter.
Usb pinout:
gnd d- d+ 5v
To work you must short d+ and d-.
From 5v use a 33k resistor to d+/d-.
From gnd use a 10k resistor to d+/d-.
If you have multimeter you should obtain ~4v between 5v and d+/d-; and ~1v between gnd and d+/d-.
I tested it and it's working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WarlockM said:
To charge your GT with any usb charger you have to make a little adapter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you do that? You need an extra device adapter? Please explain.
I've tested with d-/d+ shorted and it's not working.
@MizGarfield if u have 1 usb extension cable u can cut it on half.
Tie together white and green wires.
Tie black wires and conected to that 1 end of 10kohm resistor, the other end tie it to green/white wire.
Same to red wires but use 33kohm resistor.
See att. Sry for drawing.
bookmarking this for later use
WarlockM said:
I've tested with d-/d+ shorted and it's not working.
@MizGarfield if u have 1 usb extension cable u can cut it on half.
Tie together white and green wires.
Tie black wires and conected to that 1 end of 10kohm resistor, the other end tie it to green/white wire.
Same to red wires but use 33kohm resistor.
See att. Sry for drawing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need that for modern devices has i told you. It did not work because you did it wrong. I have all my usb chargers working the new way, you even have wikipedia talking about it. You have to cut the data + and - on the power supply from the female usb port and short only the female d+ and d-. Trust me it works and it is alot simpler.
Edit : from wikipedia "The Dedicated Charging Port shorts the D+ and D- pins with a resistance of at most 200 Ω. The short disables data transfer, but allows devices to detect the Dedicated Charging Port and allows very simple, high current chargers to be manufactured. The increased current (faster, 9 W charging) will occur once both the host/hub and devices support the new charging specification."
""As of June 14, 2007, all new mobile phones applying for a license in China are required to use the USB port as a power port.[35][36] This was the first standard to use the convention of shorting D+ and D-.[37]""
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/08/03/1743240/Hardware-Hackers-Reveal-Apples-Charger-Secrets
""We all love to call out Apple when they design deliberate incompatibility into their devices, but there is a perfectly valid technical reason for what Apple is doing here, and, in fact, they are following a USB specification (which LadyAda unfortunaterly didn't even test).
Without data communications or when suspended, devices may legally draw no more than 2.5mA from a host, which is useless for charging. In fact, even if you're generous and pretend they're connected, devices are not allowed to draw more than 100mA without negotiating for a higher current, which requires actually talking to the host, and 100mA is still too little to charge properly. 500mA is the maximum allowed by the USB spec, but devices must negotiate it (there may be too many devices on the bus for negotiation to succeed).
Before there was a spec for "dumb" USB chargers, Apple used the resistors as a sentinel to avoid drawing too much current from undersized chargers in order to avoid damaging the host. This is a hack, but it works, and honestly, we're smart enough to figure out a couple resistors on the data lines. It's not like they're using crypto auth on the charger. They have a perfectly valid reason to do this. Devices which charge from "dumb" chargers aren't following the spec, though this is a common industry practice.
As it turns out, the USB-IF came up with a USB Battery Charging spec [usb.org]. The spec is long and boring, but it boils down to: short together the data lines (no resistors required) and you indicate that you're a dumb charger that can supply anywhere from 0.5A to 1.5A.
Guess what happens when you short the data lines of an iPhone 3G and supply 5V [marcansoft.com]. Did Apple just follow a standard? Incredible!
(Yes, I'm not following the USB spec there by in turn using a USB cable to supply the 5V and not negotiating over its data lines. I didn't feel like grabbing a dedicated 5V PSU for the shot, so sue me.)"""
http://marcansoft.com/transf/iphonechg.jpg
ok ??? no need for resistors, only 5.3V MAX and d+ and d- shorted
Thnx for the tip gonna try this later on my sanyo eneloop power booster tried it yesterday without this mod and it doesn't charge so gonna look for a AF to AF converter and modify it to gound the D+ and D-
@adolfotregosa
I tried again shorting d-d+, with iphone it works but with GT it's not working.
I use BatteryWatch and it is saying Not Charging. It's detecting the connection like usb port but is not. I use some device build by myself with 1 amp capabilities. D- and D+ r free of any connection and i can do with them what i want.
I dont say you r wrong but it's not working with GT.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
but smt is wrong on your custom setup, voltage ??
EDIT: i just measure the original charger and it has no resistance between the data and power pins.
I think i know what could be wrong, when you plug in the Tab and it says not charging, how many volts have you got at that time ?
The original charger is very good because when it not charging the tab it has 5.3x volts but when you plug it in it lowers to 4.8x V Max and that is very good ! most chargers tend to lower much more (bad quality or just not powerful enough) and that is what causes the not charging messages on the tab or other devices.
Well i rest my case on this.
My device with no load it have 5.21v and with load 5.03v so it's not from him and i have another supply 5v/12 amp and it's doing the same (not charging, only with data shorted).
When u r trying to measure the original ps u can read ~7k between gnd and data but from 5v to data u cant because it have some capacitors.
Maybe samsund did something else, i have to try, maybe data pins drawing some current (mA) and that's why it's not working with only shorting them.
For the moment it's the only (working) solution i've found and i'm happy with it .
P.S. If i'm not finding anything else the last resort will be to open the original ps
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
USB Charger
This is what worked for me.
Items Needed:
USB Extension Cable
33k-Ohm Resistor (Shack Part No. 271-1129)
10k-Ohm Resistor (Shack Part No. 271-006)
Steps:
1. Cut USB Extension Cable in half, lets name the 2 halves, the half you will plug into the power suppy will be called "Cable A" and the half that you plug into the Galaxy Tab Data Cable will be called "Cable B"
2. On 'Cable A" strip outer plastic to expose all wires within, eliminate Green and White on this cable only as it will not be needed, leaving you with only the Red and the Black Cables
3. On "Cable B" strip outer plastic to expose all wires within, this should leave you exposing all 4 wires
4. On "Cable B" strip both the Green and White wires and join thes 2 wires with the 2 resistor ends (you should be using the resistor ends that have the red band with these wires), these can be joined by either soldering or just twisting together.
5. Strip Red wire from both cables and join together with the 33k-Ohm Resister (this will be the larger of the 2 resistors and should also be the end with the Gold Band) and as well join these together with solder or just twisting together.
6. Repeat the above process with the Black wires and 10K-Ohm Resistor.
7. No finally use Electrical Tape or Shrink Tubing to cover all your work.
This worked using it on a Champtek 5v 2.1a USB Car Charger and Home Charger. Also worked with iPhone charger. Also works with Original Galaxy Tab.
Hope this helps out.
May I just ask some clarifying questions?
rick75204 said:
This is what worked for me.
...
4. On "Cable B" strip both the Green and White wires and join thes 2 wires with the 2 resistor ends (you should be using the resistor ends that have the red band with these wires), these can be joined by either soldering or just twisting together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it matter WHICH resistor you join to which of these two wires?
rick75204 said:
5. Strip Red wire from both cables and join together with the 33k-Ohm Resister (this will be the larger of the 2 resistors and should also be the end with the Gold Band) and as well join these together with solder or just twisting together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that you have effectively bridged the red wire with 30K-Ohms to one of either green or white running to the TAB?
rick75204 said:
6. Repeat the above process with the Black wires and 10K-Ohm Resistor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And bridged the black wire with 10K-Ohms to the other of either green or white running to the TAB?
Would this be an accurate picture, with the 33K Ohm Resistor on the left, and the 10K Ohm Resistor on the right?
I think the intention was that you short the green and white wires together: so you are connecting both wires to both resistors.
That way the two data lines are both held at a fixed voltage of about 1.2V
Thanks, that clarified it.
I noticed today that if I connect my Tab to my keyboard (standard Apple USB KB with keypad, connected to a circa 2006 iMac), the device started charging according to battery stats. When it was plugged in it was at 48% and it ended up at around 60% after a few hours. Am I being deceived or something? I was under the impression that it would only charge if connected to the mains charger. Well I guess I'll see how long it runs now it's off the leash and see if it lasts till the morning (left my charging cable at work - D'oh!).
No, it definitely does charge even when it says it isn't - just slowly. I've got a 2A non-official USB charger that charges it up pretty quick, but still says it isn't charging. If the screen is off, it will even charge off one of those tiny Kindle chargers that must be delivering less than 500mA, but *really* slowly.
Clarify
Sorry guys, only a clarification.
As far as i understood:
the GT DOES charge with *any* charger (or connection to PC);
if you use the original charger (2Amp), it charges showing the charging-icon;
if you use a non-original charger, it charges in any case but NOT showing the charging-icon and depending on the charger power (even 1Amp charges, or 500mAmp, *VERY-REALLY* slowly);
if you use a non-original charger with the two resistors (33k + 10k) it charges showing the icon (even with a 1Amp).
Can anybody confirm if i understood well?
Thanks!!
eiem said:
Sorry guys, only a clarification.
As far as i understood:
the GT DOES charge with *any* charger (or connection to PC); Yes but slower than the original charger
if you use the original charger (2Amp), it charges showing the charging-icon; Yes, exactly
if you use a non-original charger, it charges in any case but NOT showing the charging-icon and depending on the charger power (even 1Amp charges, or 500mAmp, *VERY-REALLY* slowly); Yes.
if you use a non-original charger with the two resistors (33k + 10k) it charges showing the icon (even with a 1Amp). Depends, i get various results even though i am using the mod since day 1.
Can anybody confirm if i understood well?
Thanks!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats it for now.
It seems that the Tab could recognize the status of the usb connection by measuring the usb data rx/tx wire level. If it is not shorted, the "pluged in but not in charging" status will appear, as the mismatch voltage of the usb connection is made.
Sent from my XT701 using XDA App
Hello
I'm hoping some USB expert can help me out here, I'm trying to make a USB to DC (2.5mm plug) cable that can supply 2A, I have the popular HP Touchpad wallcharger that's rated 5v 2A , so I took a spare quality usb cable (copper cables) it has red, black, green, white (and a big bare metal cable and aluminum wrapping, shielding probably), the DC plug end has two wires red + black, so I hook up red to red black to black (red is 5V black is ground, tested using a multimeter) but I don't seem to be getting as good of results that the stock cable I have gets, the stock cable charges the device at around 1.8 Amps , the cable I made only outputs 800ma to 1.3 amps and if I turn the brightness up it stops charging like it can't supply enough power amps (again stock cable works fine with full brightness).
I'm wondering if on the charger end I need to do something with the green, white wires they both output around 2 volts should these be shorted to the black or possibly red wires to add additional amperage?
I found a youtube video where someone made a similar PSP charger and they spliced both the green, white and blacks wires together, I just want to make sure this is correct way to do things.
youtube.com/watch?v=8WhMeZkrK8U
Btw I also purchased a pre-made cable from dealsextreme but it exhibits the same behavior where full-brightness the charging light dims and goes out on my device, I assumed the low quality of the cable was to blame or again something needs to be connected with the green, white wires.
I know similar questions have been asked before but most have dealt with USB to USB fast charging , with USB to DC I'm confused on what to do with the D- and D+ wires at the charger end should they be shorted together? or to the black cable
ok I think I answered my own question, I tried to do a Ohm test on the stock cable and it seems there was no connection to the green and white or to any of the other wires, since the Ohm reading always returned 0, red and black got a 1+ reading meaning they were connected and a circuit was completed.
Looking at my stock cable it has a big black magnet on it, researching google i found this might be a ferrite core cable, so maybe this somehow boosts the signal and lets the cable pull more amperage or something.
The cylindrical lump on some cables is a ferrite core.
Its purpose is to reduce the amount of logic-generated RF noise from finding its way onto the main span of cable and using it as an antenna.
It will not affect any aspect of charging/powering a device.
Yes, the white/green data pair are used sometimes to indicate a dedicated charger.
A dedicated charger can have more current drawn from it than a normal USB connection.
This subject is handled exhaustively here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1384253
otyg said:
ok I think I answered my own question, I tried to do a Ohm test on the stock cable and it seems there was no connection to the green and white or to any of the other wires, since the Ohm reading always returned 0, red and black got a 1+ reading meaning they were connected and a circuit was completed.
Looking at my stock cable it has a big black magnet on it, researching google i found this might be a ferrite core cable, so maybe this somehow boosts the signal and lets the cable pull more amperage or something.
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What are you trying to do, make another Touchpad charger? I assume you made sure it can supply up to 2A at 5V.
Many chargers including the HP Touchpad one IIRC short the green and white data wires and this tells the device it can draw more current. If your ohmmeter was reading 0 then that would mean they are shorted. I don't think they are tied to ground (black) just to each other.
The ferrite choke is there to suppress noise from the switching transformer so the device gets clean DC power when charging.
Thanks,
I was trying to make a cable for a Chinese tablet that cannot be charged through it's USB port and only has a 2.5mm dc power port, it seems to be pretty picky about the cable being used, so far the Stock cable to USB-DC to wall USB charger works fine (hp touchpad charger), and a true DC brick rated 2000ma , 5v to DC port works good, I wanted an extra cable to use to charge it with my HP usb charger so I ordered this from dx.com
http://dx.com/p/usb-to-2-5mm-dc-charging-cable-2538
as always I check the polarity and voltage of the cable and it showed 5.13 volts, and center pin positive, strangely when I hooked it to the tablet I saw the battery charging , at 100% I turned brightness up and ran a 3d game, suddenly I saw the red light switch on the tablet to indicate it's charging, strange since it was hooked up to power and was already fully charged, and another test battery was around 40% and I charged to around 80% I rebooted the tablet and the battery was at 40% again!, so thinking my battery died I re-hooked up the stock cable and charged to 80% rebooted again and battery was 80% , narrowed it down to the cheap dx.com cable not supplying enough amps or some short in the cable, this is when I decided to make my own cable.
In my post above, The USB cable I was using I ended up taking apart the usb male connector and found out although the cable was decent quality copper wires.. where it was making the connection at the USB male end the connector only had little push pins puncturing through the wire (two little metal prongs), they weren't soldiered or anything so I guess it was another cheap cable .
So I searched for another cable, finally I found an older usb cable that none of my devices use anymore, this cable actually had a copper metal shield I just connected red and black, left green and white alone not connected to anything, so far it is operating like the stock cable when fully charged I can run full brightness , cpu at fullspeed, and 3d game without the charger light on the tablet going on (I assume this means the tablet is getting enough power from the dc port and doesn't need to switch to battery), I haven't had time to charge the device with the cable yet, but I'm assuming it will work like intended.
I guess they don't make cables like they used to.
hey guys you can check this site out http://techno-fix.com/ . i found my pinout searches there. there are very usefull things
Attention do this at our own risk as it may damage our phone.
My used samsung galaxy pocket-neo was becoming impossible to charge causing me to break the adapter cables with constant wiggling and balancing acts to get it to work. I took it apart and the micro usb socket looked like an extremely difficult soldering job to replace.
The solution I am using for more than a month with no adverse effects is to cut the plug off and strip the 2 power wires at one end of an old usb cable. There are 4 different coloured wires, red, black, green and white. The green and white wires transmit data, whilst the red and black are the power lines. Red is positive, Black is negative. The sleeve of the cable has a metal mesh which is not necessary for my purposes so I electrical taped it back onto the cable.
The next step is to remove the battery of the phone: I have only done this on phones with removeable batteries. The ones I have used have three terminals; one is plus and one minus, the middle one is for a thermistor in the internal of the battery so that it doesn't overheat. Check the plus and minus with a tester to be sure and look at the way it mounts into the phone. The corresponding terminals in the phone are where I connect the wires.
Now here is the complicated part, - or negative(black) goes to the one negative copper pin in the back of the phone. The positive +(red) wire however needs to bridge the other two pins for reasons that I would like to find out. The white and green wire got taped up seperately to avoid short circuits and I replaced the battery to hold the wires firmly in place and closed the back of the phone. Plug the phone into a charger or external power pack (DC 5v) and it will work fine with no overheating, I suggest this be monitored for a while as it may vary with other hardware.
There may be better ways to do this, as far as I can tell in my case I am not actually charging the battery, instead the phone is running directly from the external power source. The strange thing is that the software(CM11) battery icon slowly discharges and after about 10 hours tells me I need to charge the battery but never turns off and when I restart it is immediately back up to full.
I have tested with a normal cable and the micro usb is still working even though it is still only working when I constantly wiggle the cable, I have cleaned it and as far as I can see its not going to ever work properly.
It would be good to know why the battery does not chargewhen using this method. I imagine it has to do with the internal workings of the phone that control the charging, discharging and battery temperature.
Making the old hardware live longer.
Replacing the micro usb is doable with a hot air gun a pair of tweezers, a clunky spring loaded solder sucker, a flux pen and two pairs of 3.5 x magnification reading glasses. You dont need any fancy rework station or microscope, assuming you have steady hands, reasonably good eyesight, and some soldering experience. I just tried this myself yesterday and fixed and Ace 3 and two S3 mini boards from my junk pile, and while it was a little tricky, it didn't require any brain surgery skills, just care, patience and some previous smd soldering experience.
Proceed as follows, mask off all of the surrounding components with kapton tape, apply lots of flux from your flux pen, then heat the plug carefully, pointing the hot air across the plug and away from the rest of the board. Grab the (hot) metal can of the USB plug with the tweezers, and gently lift it. Only remove the plug when all the solder is melted, and it feels loose, to avoid pulling off any tracks. Remove those tracks, and the phone is for the bin. Next, clear any holes that are required to mount the new plug, take care at this stage, as it is imperative that the replacement plug sits flush on the board otherwise the pins on the plug, wont touch the pads on the board, and worse still, you wont get the case back on at the end of the process.
To fit the new socket, clean the pads... no really clean them.... now make sure they are clean, and then flux them and tin them. Fit the new plug, and check that it sits flush to the board. Tack down one metal lug only on the can of the new plug. Check again that the pins are lined up, and carefully drag solder them. Check for shorts. Check again... clean the pads and check again. If you are happy, tack down the remaining three lugs, make sure they are flush and that there are no blobs of solder on the tops of them. Clean the board again. Test... Profit
Total time including additional swearing, re-cleaning... re-re-cleaning and re-fitting.. about 30 minutes and two strong coffees.
The replacement USB plugs are readily available on ebay typically around the £2 ($3) mark, but there are several different styles, and they are different, so make sure you use the correct one for your board.
Now back to your question... why does your battery not charge when you tack the wires to it... simple... it is trying its best not to explode. The USB port provides 5V, but the battery needs between 2.8 and 4.2 vots.. depending on its current state of charge, and this is what the charge controller chip within the phone provides. Anything else and the protection circuit kicks in.
I suggest if you don't fancy repairing the USB plug yourself, you get one of those cheap "universal" usb phone chargers from China, they cost about the same as the replacement USB plug, but are (marginally) less likely to blow up your battery.
itsthatidiotagain said:
Now back to your question... why does your battery not charge when you tack the wires to it... simple... it is trying its best not to explode. The USB port provides 5V, but the battery needs between 2.8 and 4.2 vots.. depending on its current state of charge, and this is what the charge controller chip within the phone provides. Anything else and the protection circuit kicks in.
I suggest if you don't fancy repairing the USB plug yourself, you get one of those cheap "universal" usb phone chargers from China, they cost about the same as the replacement USB plug, but are (marginally) less likely to blow up your battery.
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Good description of the soldering job, the samsung pocket neo is very small but I look forward to having a go at fixing it properly one day, I dont yet have a magnifying glass or solder sucker, but I want to get them. Without these tools the job would be near impossible.
Little update: the phone is charging, I have disconected it and it holds its charge nicely, the internal software just doesn't register the trickle charge it is recieving, I have loads of old chargers and new usb cables and my old second hand phones micro usb port is way too damaged to work anymore with any charger. I use it as a modem principally, so it is connected every day and providing wifi to multiple devices and has no problems with over heating. Now nearly two months have passed and it works fine. Using this method it is possible to completely remove the battery as well. The phone is running directly off the 5 volt power with no ill effects.
It would be convienient to connect it directly to a pc in usb debug mode occasionally, and this is a very good reason for eventually fixing the usb plug.:good: