To all those who want to know more about Project Treble please use this thread to discuss about it.
What is Project Treble?
Ans. Treble is the most significant low-level change to the Android platform to date. To simplify heavily, it separates the vendor implementation from the Android framework in an effort to avoid lengthy waits for updates. . Let’s break things down a bit more:
The full update process to bring a new Android version to devices is a long and complex topic.
The “vendor” usually refers to silicon-manufacturers such as Qualcomm, but can also refer to the maker of any other proprietary hardware found in a device. The “device maker” or “OEM” usually needs to wait for the vendor to update their code so the proprietary hardware works with the Android OS framework in a newer version of Android.
However, what is happening with Project Treble is that Google is requiring that any vendor-specific code be separated from the Android OS framework and instead live in its own vendor implementation. Usually this means that there is now a separate /vendor partition on Treble-enabled smartphones that contains a bunch of HALs (Hardware Abstraction Layers).
Furthermore, vendors must implement code that lets the Android OS framework communicate with HALs in a standardized way. This is done via HIDL (HAL Interface Definition Language). With this in place, an OEM can work on an Android update without having to wait on vendors to update their HALs. Theoretically, this should speed up the entire Android update process as vendors can update their code at any time through the Play Store.
For indepth information check out this pagehttps://www.androidauthority.com/project-treble-818225/
Devices with Treble support:
- Essential PH-1
- Google Pixel
- Google Pixel XL
- HTC U11 Plus
- Huawei Honor 8 Pro
- Huawei Mate 9
- Huawei Mate 10 Pro
- Sony Xperia XZ1
- Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact
- Asus Zenfone 4 (ZE554KL)
- Honor V10
- Huawei P10/ P10 Plus
Devices which will ship with Android 8.0 Oreo will be Treble compatible by default.
Older devices will become treble compatible if the OEM creates a vendor partition via OTA update, like the Honor 8 Pro.
Custom Roms:
As of now @phhusson is working hard to make his AOSP rom boot as a fully functional rom on all the Treble supported devices, go check out the rom thread here https://forum.xda-developers.com/pr...evelopment/experimental-phh-treble-t3709659"]
Check Treble Compability
Open a terminal app on your device and simply type the following command:
getprop ro.treble.enabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it returns a boolean value true, your device supports Treble and if false it doesn’t.
[NOTE: New devices with Treble support are launching so its not possible for me to update the supported device list, so they'll not make their name on my list, but you can surely ask about your device on the discussion thread]
My understanding of Treble is, from the *big picture* anyway, that the responsibility for hardware access shifts from Google to the individual device mfgs.
The hope for us is that new versions of Android can be distributed much more rapidly, because testing of new hardware (or changes to existing hdw) won't have to wait for the new OS to be done, and that the interface to the hdw will be separate from the OS.
Another hope would be that a devices 'life span' would increase? (or at least stay current longer).
AsItLies said:
My understanding of Treble is, from the *big picture* anyway, that the responsibility for hardware access shifts from Google to the individual device mfgs.
The hope for us is that new versions of Android can be distributed much more rapidly, because testing of new hardware (or changes to existing hdw) won't have to wait for the new OS to be done, and that the interface to the hdw will be separate from the OS.
Another hope would be that a devices 'life span' would increase? (or at least stay current longer).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Treble means separating the vendor source from the software source, the treble devices will have a separate vendor partition, in which the vendor source will be. Now the manufacturers will only require to make the Software bug free so that the user dosent face any problems in day to day usage. From @phhussons AOSP treble rom we can get a clear picture that by separating the vendor source, the Treble based AOSP roms will run on any Treble compatible device regardless of the SOC/hardware configuration.
venom928 said:
Treble means separating the vendor source from the software source, the treble devices will have a separate vendor partition, in which the vendor source will be. <snip>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah yes that makes sense, it's not only the hardware source (vendor specific), it's also the vendors software (their mods and bloatware) that will be in the separate partition.
It really does sound as though this should speed up the time it takes for users to get updates of all kinds. It also seems pretty certain, non-Treble enabled devices will fall by the wayside. Doesn't seem there's any way around that?
AsItLies said:
Ah yes that makes sense, it's not only the hardware source (vendor specific), it's also the vendors software (their mods and bloatware) that will be in the separate partition.
It really does sound as though this should speed up the time it takes for users to get updates of all kinds. It also seems pretty certain, non-Treble enabled devices will fall by the wayside. Doesn't seem there's any way around that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For non-treble devices the only way is that the OEMs must release an OTA update which will create a separate Vendor partition, but OEMs won't do(except some recent flagships) that bcz they want sales of newer devices with Treble support. As far as time is concerned, suppose it takes 2-3months for an OEM to build a fully bug free update, but it will require 3-4weeks for the OEM to build that same update
venom928 said:
For non-treble devices the only way is that the OEMs must release an OTA update which will create a separate Vendor partition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it seems the consensus is that mfg's won't risk bricking the phones by doing that kind of an OTA update? We'll see fairly soon what they'll do with the older devices.
It's good that google is calling the shots with this and is insisting new Oreo devices have it. It's bad though that devices just a few months old that cost mucho bucks may go without it.
AsItLies said:
Yes, it seems the consensus is that mfg's won't risk bricking the phones by doing that kind of an OTA update? We'll see fairly soon what they'll do with the older devices.
It's good that google is calling the shots with this and is insisting new Oreo devices have it. It's bad though that devices just a few months old that cost mucho bucks may go without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The honor 8 pro got Treble via OTA because it was one of the best selling device, but some OEMs will prefer not to do that so that customers will shift to newer devices. Like OnePlus could have easily added Treble to atleast 5/5T but they thought of not doing it, just depends upon the OEM
venom928 said:
The honor 8 pro got Treble via OTA because it was one of the best selling device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I did not know that, thanks. I better read more of the Treble threads to keep up to date
AsItLies said:
Wow, I did not know that, thanks. I better read more of the Treble threads to keep up to date
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep surely
Mate 9 as well
AsItLies said:
Wow, I did not know that, thanks. I better read more of the Treble threads to keep up to date
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate 9 got treble as well with the Oreo update, major repartitioning as well.
revjamescarver said:
Mate 9 got treble as well with the Oreo update, major repartitioning as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate 9 is in the list bro, check OP
revjamescarver said:
Mate 9 got treble as well with the Oreo update, major repartitioning as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Neighbor. Huawei is rapidly moving to the top of my list of phone mfg to buy. It doesn't look like the kirin processors have much los support, but with treble... well, it seems previous prerequisites are being turned upside down.
For sure, when one evaluates (buying) a phone, many factors are relevant. But for most (if not all) of us, how long the phone will stay up to date is probably at the top of that list.
Hope the other mfg's follow Huawei's lead here, else we'll have a lot of recently mfg phones with outdated sftwr soon.
AsItLies said:
Thanks Neighbor. Huawei is rapidly moving to the top of my list of phone mfg to buy. It doesn't look like the kirin processors have much los support, but with treble... well, it seems previous prerequisites are being turned upside down.
For sure, when one evaluates (buying) a phone, many factors are relevant. But for most (if not all) of us, how long the phone will stay up to date is probably at the top of that list.
Hope the other mfg's follow Huawei's lead here, else we'll have a lot of recently mfg phones with outdated sftwr soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huawei is the 3rd most fastest growing OEM after Apple and Samsung. What stops me from buying a Honor Device is the Kirin SOC and apps like Google Camera port dosent work on the devices except devices with Snapdragon SOC, so will wait for a device with the specs like the Mi A1 and a 18:9 display
venom928 said:
Huawei is the 3rd most fastest growing OEM after Apple and Samsung. What stops me from buying a Honor Device is the Kirin SOC and apps like Google Camera port dosent work on the devices except devices with Snapdragon SOC, so will wait for a device with the specs like the Mi A1 and a 18:9 display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point. So even with Treble, which SOC (the phone has) will still be relevant in some respects. I have a G6 and think a wide angle lens is da bomb, but could easily do without all the glass 'bling'.
Kirin SoC
venom928 said:
Huawei is the 3rd most fastest growing OEM after Apple and Samsung. What stops me from buying a Honor Device is the Kirin SOC and apps like Google Camera port dosent work on the devices except devices with Snapdragon SOC, so will wait for a device with the specs like the Mi A1 and a 18:9 display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing at all wrong with the Kirin SoC, performance is on par with the Qualcomm SoC, only real downfall is that Huawei doesn't sell the Kirin to other oems, otherwise it would be more widespread. The Kirin 970 with its built in NPU and and gigabit LTE modem is going to give the Qualcomm 835/845 a run for their money. Of course the port of the new Google camera app is not going to give you more than the basic functionality as it was written specifically for Google pixel devices (it doesn't give you all the features on older Google or snapdragon devices either), I installed the port on my mate 9 and it was acceptable for basic camera functions but no matter what you do you're never going to get a port of something written for another device to have the same features or performance as the stock app written for your device.
revjamescarver said:
Nothing at all wrong with the Kirin SoC, performance is on par with the Qualcomm SoC, only real downfall is that Huawei doesn't sell the Kirin to other oems, otherwise it would be more widespread. The Kirin 970 with its built in NPU and and gigabit LTE modem is going to give the Qualcomm 835/845 a run for their money. Of course the port of the new Google camera app is not going to give you more than the basic functionality as it was written specifically for Google pixel devices (it doesn't give you all the features on older Google or snapdragon devices either), I installed the port on my mate 9 and it was acceptable for basic camera functions but no matter what you do you're never going to get a port of something written for another device to have the same features or performance as the stock app written for your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that the Kirin Processors are good, and the reason is Kirin is Huawei's home made processor so the pairing between Hardware and Software is perfectly optimisez for better performance and as far as Better Processing is concerned, after Apple Qualcomm holds the 2nd position no doubt, yeah in near future Kirin might surpass Qualcomm interms of performance no idea.
As far as the ported app is concerned I prefer stock android/custom roms over stock roms(MIUI/EMUI) and if someone ports the stock huawei camera for Los/RR running on Huawei devices itself, I'll surely go with a Kirin device but right now thats not available so after installing a custom rom I'll prefer Google camera app, if not the ported one, I'll go with the one available in Apkmirror, though this is my own preference as I'm addicted to using stock android and google apps suite, lets see how much development the Honor 7X gets, if it gets Treble support via OTA I'll go with it else the Mi A1 as of now is my 1st choice
I'm wondering, and the answer may be 'We don't know yet', but...
Many of us have used custom ROM's to avoid using an OEM's UI, bloatware, etc. Because Treble enabled phones will have a 'Vendor' partition (which will include these UI's etc), will that then mean the mfg's specific stuff can't really be (completely) removed the way an after market ROM does?
Of course, there's always ways of disabling mfg stuff, but Roms like Los just do it all in one fell swoop (much easier).
Do we know at this point how this will work with Treble?
Cheers and Happy New Year
AsItLies said:
I'm wondering, and the answer may be 'We don't know yet', but...
Many of us have used custom ROM's to avoid using an OEM's UI, bloatware, etc. Because Treble enabled phones will have a 'Vendor' partition (which will include these UI's etc), will that then mean the mfg's specific stuff can't really be (completely) removed the way an after market ROM does?
Of course, there's always ways of disabling mfg stuff, but Roms like Los just do it all in one fell swoop (much easier).
Do we know at this point how this will work with Treble?
Cheers and Happy New Year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SOC source code will reside in the vendor partition, for example The Pixel XL has SD835 so the source code of the SOC will be there in itz Vendor partition. So if you are using a Treble enabled device such as the Huawei Mate 9 which has its own custom UI, if u flash a custom rom on it, the stock OS will get completely removed and the run ROM will run on it.
The Mgf's UI is a part of the system nd not of the vendor partition.
I am planning to buy Honor 7x, I found a thread on 7X forum which has Mount points and partition layout details for 7x. In the details, i can see below line, does this mean that phone supports Treble once updated to Oreo?
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Dec 24 10:46 vendor -> /dev/block/mmcblk0p47
Orignal thread link
https://forum.xda-developers.com/honor-7x/development/mount-partition-layout-profile-xml-t3727990
Thanks:good: in advance!!
indigo110 said:
I am planning to buy Honor 7x, I found a thread on 7X forum which has Mount points and partition layout details for 7x. In the details, i can see below line, does this mean that phone supports Treble once updated to Oreo?
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Dec 24 10:46 vendor -> /dev/block/mmcblk0p47
Orignal thread link
https://forum.xda-developers.com/honor-7x/development/mount-partition-layout-profile-xml-t3727990
Thanks:good: in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is evident from past experiences that the Honor 7X might get Treble via OTA update as the case was with Honor 8 Pro. The Honor 7X's source code got released a few weeks ago and I got some info that the Open Kirin team will also support the 7X so I guess the Open Kirin team will also release a Treble supported rom
Related
Can someone port the copperhead os to moto g4 plus.. which is the most secure android ever used by google itself... in their pixel series of phones.. :highfive:
stkpxl said:
As much as I would love to see it ported, the G4 doesn't support it. These are the types of phones that are supported currently: Devices directly supported by the Android Open Source Project are candidates, meaning the Nexus and Pixel lines. Only devices with a 64-bit CPU architecture, full verified boot and LPDDR4 memory with TRR will be considered. Devices also need guaranteed security updates from the hardware vendor for device-specific components like firmware.
Pretty sure that leaves us out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on their website they mentioned as.. it's an open source project. it should have been developed for 32 bit.. bcoz more than 90℅ devices are 32bit based system... but why they are not developing for other Android.. even though other android phones are the majority..
Google has made it mandatory for devices launched with Android Oreo to have Linux Kernel 4.4 and Project Treble but
Older Android devices released prior to Android O but that will be upgraded to Android O can continue to use their original base kernel version if desired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From AOSP/Google (I can't yet put links to source as I don't have 10 posts yet)
Which includes our OnePlus 3T. As OnePlus has already said Android Oreo will be the last major update for our device (officially) we might not get Project Treble (like Nexus 5X and 6P) and Linux kernel 4.4 (a major update from our current 3.18) making it very difficult for the developer community to port future updates as Android P and above might only have Treble base unlike Android Oreo.:crying:
That would be a another bummer after there limited support announcement for 3t. For know I keep my fingers crossed for a better message on this front.
Still if images are released for AOSP you still will get development for our phone though. ?
Goku80 said:
Still if images are released for AOSP you still will get development for our phone though. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Honestly I don't see why Project Treble matters to the average ROM user. I just want my phone to work and perform well and have a decent battery life. Besides that I don't really care. Currently I have a Nexus 6 and just replaced the battery in it but I'm perusing the forums for various devices (this was one of them) that I may be interested in. I want to see how the development community is for each one before I decide. Reason I may be considering this over the OP5 is I have heard bad things about the screen and jelly scrolling.
rjmxtech said:
Honestly I don't see why Project Treble matters to the average ROM user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't see why?
Let me help you out:
Ars Technica said:
Custom ROMs shouldn't need to be painstakingly hand-crafted for individual devices anymore—a single build should cover multiple Treble devices from multiple manufacturers. Imagine the next time a major new version of Android is released. On Day One of the AOSP code drop, a single build (or a small handful of builds) could cover every Treble device with an unlocked bootloader, with a "download Android 9.0 here" link on XDA or some other technical website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UltimateGoblin said:
You don't see why?
Let me help you out:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree this !
UltimateGoblin said:
You don't see why?
Let me help you out:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! Development and porting of Custom ROMs will become easier than ever before and porting of future versions of Android will also become way lot easier (if possible at all as future versions of Android might become completely dependent on Project Treble unlike Android Oreo which is compatible with both)! And porting Project Treble is very very difficult if not impossible (unless you are the Silicon Manufacturer) !
So lets together spread the information about the importance of Project Treble and pressure OnePlus to provide Project Treble with #WeWantTreble
We shall Never Settle!
#WeWantTreble
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA Labs
Lets spam Carl Pei twitter with questions regarding this..
(Well not really spam, that would be rude, more like a lot of people asking him same question in shorts period of time)
I could be wrong but I think Treble integration is likely more on the SoC vendor than it is the OEM making the device. While they work hand-in-hand, I kind of doubt QCOM is going to make a Treble-compatible BSP for the 821 at this point.
Lyokacanthrope said:
I could be wrong but I think Treble integration is likely more on the SoC vendor than it is the OEM making the device. While they work hand-in-hand, I kind of doubt QCOM is going to make a Treble-compatible BSP for the 821 at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have red somewhere that pixel devices support treble. Same Soc, should have supported. idk.
From my experience as a Junior Android developer and reading the papers about the project treble, i could say that if there is a little group op3t developers who want this, this can be possible.
UltimateGoblin said:
You don't see why?
Let me help you out:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. But I assume there would still be issues even if they tried to make a universal solution.
Lyokacanthrope said:
I could be wrong but I think Treble integration is likely more on the SoC vendor than it is the OEM making the device. While they work hand-in-hand, I kind of doubt QCOM is going to make a Treble-compatible BSP for the 821 at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Treble is mostly dependent on the SoC vendor as Project Treble is all about a vendor implementation with a vendor interface layer connecting it to the Android OS Framework unlike before when (parts of) Android OS Framework had to be compiled along with the vendor implementation as there was no interface layer in between them.
But Google Pixel which is also on the Qualcomm Snapdragon 821 as the OnePlus 3T has Project Treble but I also doubt how did they manage to get the silicon specific code required for implementing Project Treble during Developer Previews as generally the source code of Developers Previews is available only to Google and Qualcomm generally doesn't share the uncompiled silicon specific code even with OEMs (I might be wrong and Qualcomm and Google might be having partnership).
As there is already Project Treble for Qualcomm Snapdragon 821 (Google Pixel) I think it might be upto OnePlus to choose if it wants to implement it.:fingers-crossed:
DelicatePanda said:
Treble is mostly dependent on the SoC vendor as Project Treble is all about a vendor implementation with a vendor interface layer connecting it to the Android OS Framework unlike before when (parts of) Android OS Framework had to be compiled along with the vendor implementation as there was no interface layer in between them.
But Google Pixel which is also on the Qualcomm Snapdragon 821 as the OnePlus 3T has Project Treble but I also doubt how did they manage to get the silicon specific code required for implementing Project Treble during Developer Previews as generally the source code of Developers Previews is available only to Google and Qualcomm generally doesn't share the uncompiled silicon specific code even with OEMs (I might be wrong and Qualcomm and Google might be having partnership).
As there is already Project Treble for Qualcomm Snapdragon 821 (Google Pixel) I think it might be upto OnePlus to choose if it wants to implement it.:fingers-crossed:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Friggin' derp. How did I forget about the Pixel?
That being said, we'd still need to see how its implemented on the Pixel...As far as I know Treble also relies in a specific type of device partitioning which may be problematic for existing device adaptations. The Pixel phones already used the /vendor partition how it's supposed to be used so adapting Treble is almost a non-issue. I don't think our phone uses the same partition layout.
As of open beta 16 Oxygen OS we didn't get the new v4.4 kernel and also project Treble:crying:
DelicatePanda said:
As of open beta 16 Oxygen OS we didn't get the new v4.4 kernel and also project Treble:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sucks .. even for OnePlus 5?
why the heck Carl is not replying officially on it, anywhere???
Please suggest a way to make our device get the Project Treble officially.
More details on Google Project Treble,
Thanks.
This can only be accomplished by the manufacturer of the phone (Oneplus) in corporation with the SoC manufacturer (Qualcomm). But we can always say pleeease with a big nice smile in the Oneplus forum and hope for the best. ?
pitrus- said:
This can only be accomplished by the manufacturer of the phone (Oneplus) in corporation with the SoC manufacturer (Qualcomm). But we can always say pleeease with a big nice smile in the Oneplus forum and hope for the best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As per the official OnePlus forums from I visited, I have read them saying "Treble is interesting, we will keep close an eye on it.."
Which is like killing me all the time...
Could someone from XDA OnePlus team reach out to OnePlus official and represent our request???
Project Treble would be expensive and difficult to implement. Given what OnePlus did with the OP2, it's clear where this is going.
The OP3/3T hardware will be likely be completely abandoned by next Summer. One year, folks.
Of course, Google poorly designed Android from the start and created this problem. Hardware abstraction and support for official AOSP should have been baked in from the start--or (at least) implemented before Gingerbread.
I don't use the physical buttons on this device. There's not much to wear out. This next upgrade will be forced by software. I don't give a darn about benchmarks, games, or huge pdf's; hardware isn't compelling anymore. I am going to wait and see about x86 on ARM. Even with limited performance, it would be nice to carry one device and just plug into the hotel television hdmi. Also, the updates would flow for a solid five years--longer than I would use a new device (as it should be).
There will be some broken buggy ROMS floating around for a while after next summer, but those are for kids.
orange808 said:
Project Treble would be expensive and difficult to implement. Given what OnePlus did with the OP2, it's clear where this is going.
The OP3/3T hardware will be likely be completely abandoned by next Summer. One year, folks.
Of course, Google poorly designed Android from the start and created this problem. Hardware abstraction and support for official AOSP should have been baked in from the start--or (at least) implemented before Gingerbread.
I don't use the physical buttons on this device. There's not much to wear out. This next upgrade will be forced by software. I don't give a darn about benchmarks, games, or huge pdf's; hardware isn't compelling anymore. I am going to wait and see about x86 on ARM. Even with limited performance, it would be nice to carry one device and just plug into the hotel television hdmi. Also, the updates would flow for a solid five years--longer than I would use a new device (as it should be).
There will be some broken buggy ROMS floating around for a while after next summer, but those are for kids.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dint quiet get you there mate...
you mean Treble is not a good move?
orange808 said:
Project Treble would be expensive and difficult to implement. Given what OnePlus did with the OP2, it's clear where this is going.
The OP3/3T hardware will be likely be completely abandoned by next Summer. One year, folks.
Of course, Google poorly designed Android from the start and created this problem. Hardware abstraction and support for official AOSP should have been baked in from the start--or (at least) implemented before Gingerbread.
I don't use the physical buttons on this device. There's not much to wear out. This next upgrade will be forced by software. I don't give a darn about benchmarks, games, or huge pdf's; hardware isn't compelling anymore. I am going to wait and see about x86 on ARM. Even with limited performance, it would be nice to carry one device and just plug into the hotel television hdmi. Also, the updates would flow for a solid five years--longer than I would use a new device (as it should be).
There will be some broken buggy ROMS floating around for a while after next summer, but those are for kids.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incoherent, confused, and totally off the point, what after next year there is no Android update, would that kill the phone, I still have wildfire s, it's on ginger bread, it runs youtube, Facebook and what's app, this phone will be usable till it is not broken
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3010 using Tapatalk
dante_67 said:
Incoherent, confused, and totally off the point, what after next year there is no Android update, would that kill the phone, I still have wildfire s, it's on ginger bread, it runs youtube, Facebook and what's app, this phone will be usable till it is not broken
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3010 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like turtles.
Is it possible for devs to port the kernel to 4.4+ once OP release sources for Oreo?
Well, given that OEM support for our device will end by mid next year, Project Treble implementation is not really worthwhile for our devices. It won't be useful to OnePlus for long (for the 3/T), and also it'll be quite expensive to be worked on.
But if OnePlus decides to pull an OPO, and grant us our wishes, we'd all be happy.
It has almost nothing to do with Oneplus, if Qualcomm update the reference msm8996 kernel to linux 4.4 then its trivial to port oneplus modifications over.
Qualcomm has practically zero motivation to do this, infact it works against their interests.
orange808 said:
Project Treble would be expensive and difficult to implement. Given what OnePlus did with the OP2, it's clear where this is going.
The OP3/3T hardware will be likely be completely abandoned by next Summer. One year, folks.
Of course, Google poorly designed Android from the start and created this problem. Hardware abstraction and support for official AOSP should have been baked in from the start--or (at least) implemented before Gingerbread.
I don't use the physical buttons on this device. There's not much to wear out. This next upgrade will be forced by software. I don't give a darn about benchmarks, games, or huge pdf's; hardware isn't compelling anymore. I am going to wait and see about x86 on ARM. Even with limited performance, it would be nice to carry one device and just plug into the hotel television hdmi. Also, the updates would flow for a solid five years--longer than I would use a new device (as it should be).
There will be some broken buggy ROMS floating around for a while after next summer, but those are for kids.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 or ARM? Jesus, that's some pretty old CPU architecture right there. Care to elaborate as to why you want it to go further?
thes3usa said:
x86 or ARM? Jesus, that's some pretty old CPU architecture right there. Care to elaborate as to why you want it to go further?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like turtles.
orange808 said:
I like turtles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes sense. Thanks for your informative explanation xD
OnePlus 3, 3T, 5, and 5T are all missing out on Project Treble, but will be updated to Android 8.1.
I'd rather have Treble.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
HampTheToker said:
OnePlus 3, 3T, 5, and 5T are all missing out on Project Treble, but will be updated to Android 8.1.
I'd rather have Treble.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And if OnePlus had release Project Treble but not Android 8.1, you would have also complained.
Stop complain about everything you don't have, and enjoy what you have: should I remind you that Android 8.0 should have been the last update for the OnePlus 3(T)? Plus, Project Treble targets all devices launched with Android 8.x, which is not the case for actual OnePlus phones.
Not only "OnePlus" doesn't give project treble,
Stop complaint about "Project Treble"
there is a petition going to support Project Treble for OnePlus devices
feel free to sign the petition and make a difference
We (the community) would like to ask Oneplus to support Project Treble in OOS
casual_kikoo said:
And if OnePlus had release Project Treble but not Android 8.1, you would have also complained.
Stop complain about everything you don't have, and enjoy what you have: should I remind you that Android 8.0 should have been the last update for the OnePlus 3(T)? Plus, Project Treble targets all devices launched with Android 8.x, which is not the case for actual OnePlus phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Project Treble is compulsory for devices launching with Oreo, but can be enabled when a device is updated (see OG Pixel/XL and Essential Phone), so OnePlus can do it if they want to.
JoinTheRealms said:
It has almost nothing to do with Oneplus, if Qualcomm update the reference msm8996 kernel to linux 4.4 then its trivial to port oneplus modifications over.
Qualcomm has practically zero motivation to do this, infact it works against their interests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct me if I'm wrong, just guessing here, but isn't the Google Pixel 1 getting treble? It has the same SOC, so getting the required kernel references shouldn't be a problem right?
EDIT: This is ofcourse only applicable to the 3T, so they'd have to split the OTA's from the OP3. Highly doubt that they'd do that though.
So I'm watching the treble news for the galaxy 9 and it's like a knife is turning in my back. I love the s8 hardware but the software, not so much. I have always preferred aosp but I don't like the pixel 2 xl's screen and I want a 2k display so no OnePlus. I hoped that the Oreo update for the s8 will bring project treble support like other OEM's did, but ofc Samsung screwed us one more time before the s9 launch. My question is: do you think that treble will ever come to the s8? Via official update from Samsung? or an xda developer port? :crying:
Because of how the system needs to be repartitioned, the only way to have treble is for the phone to come from the factory with treble set up.
eregev said:
Because of how the system needs to be repartitioned, the only way to have treble is for the phone to come from the factory with treble set up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But phones that launched with nougat and got updated to Oreo support treble. Some Huawei and Sony devices. The essential phone too
vladtdr said:
So I'm watching the treble news for the galaxy 9 and it's like a knife is turning in my back. I love the s8 hardware but the software, not so much. I have always preferred aosp but I don't like the pixel 2 xl's screen and I want a 2k display so no OnePlus. I hoped that the Oreo update for the s8 will bring project treble support like other OEM's did, but ofc Samsung screwed us one more time before the s9 launch. My question is: do you think that treble will ever come to the s8? Via official update from Samsung? or an xda developer port? :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm very pessimistic when it comes to Samsung and upgrades. There is no money in putting the extra work to bring Project Treble on another "old" phone.
So bad is Samsung software update strategy that I'm on October 2017 Security patch while March 2018 is already out!
(Australian non-branded XSA S8+ here). They haven't even released Oreo update for non-branded phones! These phones are meant to get updates first as they don't require telco "certification".
Having said that all that, I'm sticking to with Samsung as their hardware "just works". If Google released a phone of Samsung quality and with a Samsung AMOLED screen I'd switch in a heartbeat.
samsung probably won't add treble support because there is nothing to gain for them. they'd rather you buy a s9. there's a lot of software-only feature in these phones where they want you to buy new hardware, even thus they could easily do it on the old hardware. but it cost money (effort) and they don't get revenue for it (sales), and they're already one of the leading android phone maker, so they don't have to care. All this make it very unlikely.
community might add it somehow, eventually, who knows. I guess you could interface oreo drivers to wrappers or something like that...
vladtdr said:
But phones that launched with nougat and got updated to Oreo support treble. Some Huawei and Sony devices. The essential phone too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those companies care about its user, samsung on the other hand doesn't.
I saw that some Xiaomi phones got treble support un oficial( from Devs here on xda) maybe they can do the same for s8? I think the phone has to have a vendor partition tho
I think yes, because google demands companies to do so, and that means if they are going to use google's software, they have to respect their rules. But it probably will be supported after android pie update. At least s9 does support project t.
---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 PM ----------
vladtdr said:
I saw that some Xiaomi phones got treble support un oficial( from Devs here on xda) maybe they can do the same for s8? I think the phone has to have a vendor partition tho
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it is only possible for some devices with non-necesarry but existing special partitions. Redmi note 4 had a special partition for miui to store some specific data. And dev used that partition to bring project treble support. As i know sammy devices don't have any other partition except ordinary ones.
Nope. Not going to happen. It wouldn't help USA Snapdragon devices anyway, as Samsung isn't signing non stock images. For 95XF/FD & 95X0 you can probably fake it, which I'll explain below.
vladtdr said:
I saw that some Xiaomi phones got treble support un oficial( from Devs here on xda) maybe they can do the same for s8? I think the phone has to have a vendor partition tho
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For exynos and non usa/canada phones only this is possible now, if someone reverse engineers the pit file format, or if the one someone came out with years ago still works.
An easier solution though is to just make hybrid images from existing gsi ROMs. Just open up a gsi image, paste in the vendor from a rom and voila! Samsung already moved all the config files around and simplified /vendor to /system/vendor so this should work just fine. I've been meaning to try but haven't gotten around to it yet
Im willing to try
partcyborg said:
Nope. Not going to happen. It wouldn't help USA Snapdragon devices anyway, as Samsung isn't signing non stock images. For 95XF/FD & 95X0 you can probably fake it, which I'll explain below.
For exynos and non usa/canada phones only this is possible now, if someone reverse engineers the pit file format, or if the one someone came out with years ago still works.
An easier solution though is to just make hybrid images from existing gsi ROMs. Just open up a gsi image, paste in the vendor from a rom and voila! Samsung already moved all the config files around and simplified /vendor to /system/vendor so this should work just fine. I've been meaning to try but haven't gotten around to it yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im willing to try this out, any chances of bricking my g955f. could you give me a step by step instruction on how to accomplish this seeing as no one seems to want to do this
DalmAsian said:
Im willing to try this out, any chances of bricking my g955f. could you give me a step by step instruction on how to accomplish this seeing as no one seems to want to do this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave this a shot on a bl unlocked snapdragon a bit ago and had no luck. At least with snapdragon, there is more to it than that.
So no, this isn't something that I or anyone else can give you a set of exact steps to accomplish. There is way too many unknowns to possibly predict them all, as this would up being much more a development/porting project than I suspected.
I still think it's doable for my device, especially after learning a few things through running gsis on a device with full treble support, but it will still take understanding what is happening and being able to make decisions based upon logs and other development practices.
As seen here
https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/...ect_trebel_devices/?utm_source=reddit-android
LineageOS team state that project treble is in its baby shoes and completely dependant on google to optimize it even more since as of now gsi rom requires certain adjustments for each device, so will project treble successed?
any1 has an insight please share.
I think it needs more adjustment. The kernel should be universal and updateable along with the OS, it's pretty universal as it is at the moment. Drivers should also be standard and updateable, at least for standard items. There should be a driver model where possible to support other devices, and any phone specific changes could be done through manufacturer supplied drivers. There's really no reason why it can't be done, it would be along the lines of how Windows works. Of course, it can be tailored to suit phones.
System updates should realistically come from Google, it would mean all phones and devices would be up to date with the latest security updates. The phone can also check with the manufacturer for specific updates. If Google keeps them apprised of any changes they can update their specific updates in time. This model would mean individual service testing for a new OS update etc wouldn't be a problem since it should at least be compliant with the base model.
Don't forget Google tracks down security leaks in other OS like Windows, which isn't even a direct competitor, and releases the security leak information if it isn't patched within 30? days. How many Android devices are updated with security patches within 30 days by the manufacturer? It's very much a double standard. Google really needs to think of an even more universal model like I just depicted for Android 10 Quinoa Slice (or whatever they call it).
Will Treble succeed? It's a step in the right direction, but needs more work. Not only should something like I just described be done, it should be made mandatory for all new devices. It doesn't mean custom versions are out, but custom versions would have to have OTA updates and be updated quickly along with the standard OS.
To say whether it succeeded or not, I think you'd first need to define what's its goal.
I still don't even know the answer as of today.
Some people say that the goal is to have a system image controlled and updated by Google.
But I don't see this happening any time soon. Google would need to test their GSIs on many devices, and they didn't even test P GSI over O-MR1 Pixels!
It seems to me that their goal was simply to make updates easier to OEMs. Considering Essential PH-1 getting Pie day-one, this might seem a success.
But we'll need to compare Oreo adoption rate to Pie's to confirm.
Oooh someone made a thread so i can moan cheers
The main problem with treble for me is that it's splintered between a plethora of devices, so one dev will release a treble rom and a multitude of device owners will flash it, each with their own subjective problems and issues, requests and wants.
And there lies the problem, it's difficult even when it's a dedicated rom thread for a particular device to get help at times.
So when you have a bunch of users talking about completely different devices you haven't got a hope in hell.
I think there should be branches to each thread for each specific device, that way help threads can be more linear rather than the chaos that it is at the moment.
Least that's my thoughts
My only rom i've flashed is RR and besides a few missing features, Fingerprint, Stereo and NFC i think it's brilliant.