Database Users

Original battery's low capacity density and adapting a GS8+ battery - Xperia Z3 Compact General

I've been researching about batteries out of interest of replacement, better charging maintaining and longevity. Being unable to find a recently manufactured Z3C battery anywhere, I'm setting up a Galaxy S8+ replacement battery with a removed Z3C battery's printed circuit board solder connected. I can't find a good source on lithium-ion shelf life through Google but it's commonly mentioned to be 2-3 years to being considered depleted. I've got the mod working but haven't finished cleaning it up. The leftover space in the device got me curious on the actual capacity limit. I started calculating the differences and ended up writing it all up for comparison. I can follow up with some photos.
Notes
Measured by eye using a steel ruler and flat tool on an official warranty replacement 16W13 manufacture dated battery. The capacity feels depleted maybe 80% or so, so it's considered depleted. Being depleted the thickness may have swollen up to 10%. See sources below on these points.
Dimensions in centimeters
All numbers rounded to two decimal places
Nom = Nominal Voltage
Sony's original battery has an energy density of 2008 maximum technology according to this graph http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NkSg5gn6ePM/VVPBtPLreJI/AAAAAAAAAoI/-KeFe45ky14/s1600/Pix.png found on the source list below.
Using a case without the back panel easily affords an extra millimeter.
For an extra 0.9mm in thickness a Z1C 127 x 64.9 x 9.5 case can be used on a Z3C 127.3 x 64.9 x 8.6.
Original Batteries
Sony Z3C = 9 x 5.1 x 0.4 = 18.36ml = Nom 3.8V 2600mAh 141.61mAh/ml 0.54Wh/L = 2008 density
Samsung S8+, 2017 density = 8.3 x 4.55 x 0.5 = 18.88ml = Nom 3.85V 3500mAh 185.38mAh/ml 0.71Wh/L (or estimated Nom 3.8V 3360mAh 177.96mAh/ml 0.68Wh/L)
Hypothetical higher densitys
Sony Z3C, if matched 2014 maximum density = (estimated using 0.66Wh/L = Nom 3.8V 3189mAh 12.12Wh, 173.69mAh/ml)
Sony Z3C, if Samsung S8+ 2017 density = Nom 3.85V 3387mAh 13.04Wh (or estimated Nom 3.8V 3285mAh 12.48Wh)
Sony Z3C, hypothetical 0.1 thicker
9 x 5.1 x 0.5 = 22.95ml
If Original 2008 density = Nom 3.8V 3250mAh 12.35Wh
If 2014 density = (estimated using 0.66Wh/L = Nom 3.8V 3987mAh 15.15Wh, 173.73mAh/ml)
If 2017 density = Nom 3.85V 4231mAh 16.29Wh (or estimated Nom 3.8V 4106mAh 15.6Wh)
Sources
Good basic sources in general is scarce through basic searching on the topic of lithium-ion batteries. I think it's because the industry is highly competitive with low margins leading to secrecy in interest of intellectual property (got the gist of this from a few different Qnovo blog articles). Also it's got heavily ongoing academic focused research and development but would be funded and therefore guarded by the corporations . Funny though that my main sources are from CEO's of battery related companies. I think it's a case there of smaller companies with an interest and belief in sharing knowledge to create public awareness. Thus here we are on XDA with some relevant useful facts.
At 80% retained capacity a battery is considered depleted. Capacity loss is greatly accelerated after 80% as is the risk of safety measure failure
https://qnovo.com/what-happens-after-80-percent/. The industry leader in support and sales by model volume, Apple's warranty policy follows this guideline https://support.apple.com/en-au/ipho.../battery-power.
About battery thickness swelling.
https://qnovo.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/72_14.html
This article https://qnovo.com/moores-law-and-snails-law/ has a graph for Energy Density Wh/L by year which I used for estimating what Sony's battery could have been if maximum density was used at the time.
I used Table 4 from http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries to presume the capacity of 4.35V and 4.4V which I used for estimated results. Based like this:
4.30 110-115%
4.35 115-120%
4.4 120-125%

Really interesting, I was thinking to do something similiar, but with bigger battery and use z3c without glass back with maybe a moded case, photos would be really interesting, probably now gonna buy s8+ battery to tinker with, considering s8+ battery 7mm is shorter would really help in custom wiring to old z3c battery pcb

Photos with short descriptions https://imgur.com/a/8Ceha.
There's a lot of stuff to cover. I'll cover the basics. If anyone wants more information, just ask.
I was planning to remove the S8+ PCB and attempt to solder it myself. After Banggood didn't package the soldering iron order twice, I got fed up waiting and decided to quote a cheap phone technician. Given the fee was AUD $18 I went ahead.
There was some communication issues as the technician didn't speak English, so I had to discuss with the staff. I'd have preferred the S8+ PCB removed and with shorter wires but it has actually has worked out well. Looking at the broken battery I removed the Z3C PCB from, it's difficult removing the PCB from the spot welding while leaving lots of aluminium tab left over. I've read how aluminium is one of the most difficult materials to solder to and having big fresh tabs is easier and safer.
It all fits well and is still removable quick swappable with my other mod. I'll be monitoring its performance. I already use custom charge threshold rates and limits using Tasker rooted for longevity. I already previously monitor battery temperature, usage rates and voltage by overlay so I should be able to notice differences. Plus i've got two working Z3C's to power test :fingers-crossed:
Should probably add that doing any battery modification goes against safety recommendations. You need to know what you're doing for the involved risks. Follow electrostatic discharge safety for installation and use required measures for handling the battery if using it removable.

Hey, I'm interested in this mod. Can't wait to find out your results. I may be able to help you out a bit, I'm a CNC Machinist and I have my own set of calipers if you wanted a more accurate measurement on the z3c battery sizes. I may (read: may) be able to make a back plate that will hold a slightly different battery.

TheHow7zer said:
Hey, I'm interested in this mod. Can't wait to find out your results. I may be able to help you out a bit, I'm a CNC Machinist and I have my own set of calipers if you wanted a more accurate measurement on the z3c battery sizes. I may (read: may) be able to make a back plate that will hold a slightly different battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome to get more accurate measurements for correction. It shouldn't be much of a difference but can be useful for interests sake.
That's an interesting offer suggestion. I'm a little curious how much signal loss there is with a metal case. I prefer a TPU for the sides of my case with a small lip to cover the front, also a hard back to adhere 3M VHB for a Garmin interface. So I tracked down a Z1C Ringke fusion to combine all my hardware mods :laugh:

Wow very nice idea and the mod indeed I am sucker for battery life, so I'm very much interested in actual numbers here, you could provide us some screenshots and further feedback on mod performance.
I've got a question though, since the S8+ battery is 0.1mm thicker, would it be possible to put some double sided tape on the frame + B7000 glue in order to lift the original glass back and still keep it on the phone?

Cirra92 said:
Wow very nice idea and the mod indeed I am sucker for battery life, so I'm very much interested in actual numbers here, you could provide us some screenshots and further feedback on mod performance.
I've got a question though, since the S8+ battery is 0.1mm thicker, would it be possible to put some double sided tape on the frame + B7000 glue in order to lift the original glass back and still keep it on the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I might try to compare across two devices with the same Nandroid copy and the less old 2016 battery. I'd probably only test up to 80% to maintain cycle life. May be awhile yet though as I broke a motherboard while transporting for an unrelated replacement screen warranty removal.
B7000 hey, you've done some phone repairs already too? It's 0.1cm, 1mm thicker. B7000 applies as liquid so it won't be raised enough when adhering. Using a case isn't a bad compromise as it affords protection, something I've already always used in the past.

Infy_AsiX said:
I might try to compare across two devices with the same Nandroid copy and the less old 2016 battery. I'd probably only test up to 80% to maintain cycle life. May be awhile yet though as I broke a motherboard while transporting for an unrelated replacement screen warranty removal.
B7000 hey, you've done some phone repairs already too? It's 0.1cm, 1mm thicker. B7000 applies as liquid so it won't be raised enough when adhering. Using a case isn't a bad compromise as it affords protection, something I've already always used in the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought some screenshots with the device that has the mod, you don't need to compare with old one Bad luck for the motherboard, had some mishaps too with broken screens while replacing them myself :/
Yeah I took the phone apart 3 times already (though it was to replace the screen only, didn't remove the motherboard) so I'm familiar enough with Z3C disassembly Right, 0.1cm, I meant that but made a stupid mistake, sorry. I've mentioned B7000 since I used that to avoid notorious issues of screen and back glass separating from frame, but didn't use the double sided tape as I don't know how good is it gonna stick, so thought in this case of using maybe a double layer of the tape and glue on top of it. I have a silicone case on it, but would like to keep the original look
Anyway I hope to see what benefit this gives you, as my battery is 2y old now (still going strong though), so it will likely start to give up on me, and I'm interested in this mod
Thanks, and good job once again :victory:

Cirra92 said:
I thought some screenshots with the device that has the mod, you don't need to compare with old one Bad luck for the motherboard, had some mishaps too with broken screens while replacing them myself :/
Yeah I took the phone apart 3 times already (though it was to replace the screen only, didn't remove the motherboard) so I'm familiar enough with Z3C disassembly Right, 0.1cm, I meant that but made a stupid mistake, sorry. I've mentioned B7000 since I used that to avoid notorious issues of screen and back glass separating from frame, but didn't use the double sided tape as I don't know how good is it gonna stick, so thought in this case of using maybe a double layer of the tape and glue on top of it. I have a silicone case on it, but would like to keep the original look
Anyway I hope to see what benefit this gives you, as my battery is 2y old now (still going strong though), so it will likely start to give up on me, and I'm interested in this mod
Thanks, and good job once again :victory:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's hard to demonstrate battery performance based on how different smartphone power usage can be. On a fresh ROM even an old battery lasts a long time. I'd estimate my basic usage averages around 650mA/h based on the system current draw when the screen is on and being used generally. That's with debloated stock and various power saving mods like kernel tweaks, low brightness and Greenify. Though on the other hand I do have a lot of mods and Xposed going on. I prefer to leave mobile data, wifi and sync always on so that's no help either. Though also my old stock rom does seem faulty, running out of ZRAM even with it greatly increased.
Anyway at ~650mA/h that's still only 5 hours SOT with 3325mAh. 4 hours SOT using a max limit of 80%, around the same as a new stock 2600mAh battery. 3 hours SOT for a degraded battery with 80% capacity left or a new stock set to 80% max limit. 2.5 hours SOT for a degraded 80% remaining with a set 80% max limit. If feels like those last scenarios describe my old batteries. With a theoretical 4000mAh an extra hour again would certainly be welcome. Technically you can get close to that with a S8 Active battery that's 4000mAh 4.4V, judging by phone dimensions between the S8, S8 Active, S8+ it will be smaller and thicker again.
It kind of shows why I don't like comparing battery performance with between user setups. There's too many variables to power consumption on a smartphone. I don't know how people get 8 hours screen time in screenshots but physics dictates the limit. To get 8 hours SOT with 3325mAh, current draw would have to average 415mA, something I can't reach on my setup. Not to mention performing a full deep discharge cycle harming longevity. However it's definitely possible on a fresh ROM with only a few apps, noting that's how reviewer benchmarks operate (untrue to real usage). It kind of brings back the fact that a removable battery is still the only solution to extending run time beyond an insufficient limited capacity without complicating charging and requiring tethering.
I'll try to get a screenshot that indicates what I've mentioned here as confirmation. You could try watching your system current draw using an app too, I see Ampere and AccuBattery often mentioned, I prefer DevCheck or Cool Tool. Then estimate your own capacity health, potential run times and screenshot for interest and knowledge sharing's sake .

Infy_AsiX said:
I think it's hard to demonstrate battery performance based on how different smartphone power usage can be. On a fresh ROM even an old battery lasts a long time. I'd estimate my basic usage averages around 650mA/h based on the system current draw when the screen is on and being used generally. That's with debloated stock and various power saving mods like kernel tweaks, low brightness and Greenify. Though on the other hand I do have a lot of mods and Xposed going on. I prefer to leave mobile data, wifi and sync always on so that's no help either. Though also my old stock rom does seem faulty, running out of ZRAM even with it greatly increased.
Anyway at ~650mA/h that's still only 5 hours SOT with 3325mAh. 4 hours SOT using a max limit of 80%, around the same as a new stock 2600mAh battery. 3 hours SOT for a degraded battery with 80% capacity left or a new stock set to 80% max limit. 2.5 hours SOT for a degraded 80% remaining with a set 80% max limit. If feels like those last scenarios describe my old batteries. With a theoretical 4000mAh an extra hour again would certainly be welcome. Technically you can get close to that with a S8 Active battery that's 4000mAh 4.4V, judging by phone dimensions between the S8, S8 Active, S8+ it will be smaller and thicker again.
It kind of shows why I don't like comparing battery performance with between user setups. There's too many variables to power consumption on a smartphone. I don't know how people get 8 hours screen time in screenshots but physics dictates the limit. To get 8 hours SOT with 3325mAh, current draw would have to average 415mA, something I can't reach on my setup. Not to mention performing a full deep discharge cycle harming longevity. However it's definitely possible on a fresh ROM with only a few apps, noting that's how reviewer benchmarks operate (untrue to real usage). It kind of brings back the fact that a removable battery is still the only solution to extending run time beyond an insufficient limited capacity without complicating charging and requiring tethering.
I'll try to get a screenshot that indicates what I've mentioned here as confirmation. You could try watching your system current draw using an app too, I see Ampere and AccuBattery often mentioned, I prefer DevCheck or Cool Tool. Then estimate your own capacity health, potential run times and screenshot for interest and knowledge sharing's sake .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yeah I agree on that, it's hard to do it precisely, however I asked because you know your typical usage and maybe could make a rough conclusion on the benefit that this mod gives you, if your current usage does not differ much from the one with original battery. I do not rely much on those app calculations no matter how precise the might be, as I don't rely on reviewer's tests as well, because my usage is specific. I can tell I'm one of those who was reaching 8h of SOT, even 9h on 5.1.1 with specific settings (microG instead of Gapps, global UV, interactive governor tweaks, intelliplug, different LMK values and Amplify, though the last one didn't make much difference) and that battery life was pretty consistent until MM came on board. Now I'm on Carbon 7.1.1 (with same settings) and can average 7h of SOT and always 24-36h of total usage with 2y old battery, which is damn good if you consider that and the fact that I had a lot of full discharge cycles, 100% -> 1%.
Based on your calculations even with your current draw you can get extra 1h of SOT, if I understood right what you wrote, not that SOT is sole indicator of how your battery performs, but it does show a lot in same usage scenario
I have AccuBattery installed from last night, will monitor in upcoming days and share here, just for general info as you said, and to see how much is the % of degradation

Cirra92 said:
I can tell I'm one of those who was reaching 8h of SOT, even 9h on 5.1.1 with specific settings (microG instead of Gapps, global UV, interactive governor tweaks, intelliplug, different LMK values and Amplify, though the last one didn't make much difference) and that battery life was pretty consistent until MM came on board. Now I'm on Carbon 7.1.1 (with same settings) and can average 7h of SOT and always 24-36h of total usage with 2y old battery, which is damn good if you consider that and the fact that I had a lot of full discharge cycles, 100% -> 1%.
Based on your calculations even with your current draw you can get extra 1h of SOT, if I understood right what you wrote, not that SOT is sole indicator of how your battery performs, but it does show a lot in same usage scenario
I have AccuBattery installed from last night, will monitor in upcoming days and share here, just for general info as you said, and to see how much is the % of degradation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's certainly some impressive power consumption. Was that on stock before N? I've always been stock ROM until now that I'm migrating transitioning to LOS N across two Z3Cs.
I also started trying AccuBattery a few days ago and found it quite useful in a few ways. How it records charging/discharging sessions with mA and mAh data, provides a way to track energy consumption. It's Process CPU usage overlay helped me realise the live wallpaper I had was using 50% of my CPU generally and that DevCheck's overlay is resource intensive. Though AccuB's CPU usage overlay doesn't work on N properly anymore due to SELinux. I found however capacity health estimates are incorrect on my stock ROM, doing some digging and have come up with a basic understanding.
It gets a little complicated so it's confusing and some more testing or other's checking is needed to confirm some specific things. I only had one phone this week so I tested it on my stock ROM with the S8+ battery. The screenshots confirm AccuB recorded close to the expected capacity of the S8+. Note the device was not used in a way to represent a constant drain, the timing is just to demonstrate separation. The screenshots are scattered in content as I was just grabbing the stats not expecting the below 1% occurrence. To understand just look for what's described above each for explanation.
Showing percentage output "50%" at ~3.8V when it should be 70%, 3:35 (pm ).
https://i.imgur.com/qZwnCDy
At ~3.65V it hit "1%" 4:48pm.
https://i.imgur.com/JQrqwAG
~3.6V below "1%" 6:26pm. Around this voltage holds the most energy, why 0.05V lasted so long from the last screenshot.
https://i.imgur.com/ZQTZU29
~3.45V below "1%" 6:59pm
https://i.imgur.com/8kZaWSm
Last screenshot ~3.25V before cutoff at 3.2V 7:07pm.
https://i.imgur.com/16PysRL
Post session stats screenshots. Note the session started at 99% because I forgot to restore AccuBattery's Titanium data until after booting, meaning some mAh is missing from 100% but as seen AccuB tracked close to the expected capacity of the S8+. In regards to SOT in my last post, there's confirmation my old stock ROM averages 600mA with screen on. Note the screen off mA is high because of playing Google Music on phone speakers the entire cycle. Obviously the %/h is false here due to the missing ~1100mAh below 0%.
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AccuB's charging health estimates are constantly incorrect at ~2000mAh. I think this is caused by system battery aging calibration that is set on my old stock ROM. Doesn't matter which whether stock 2014, stock '15 or S8+ '17 battery is used. Dividing a discharge session mAh by percent used gives the same approximate low mAh per percentage. This is why the S8+ battery keeps running at 1% remaining for over another 1000mAh. Doing some searching of the symptom takes me back to the days where third party extended batteries were used, meeting the issue. The main issue is the kernel controls the calibrating capacity percentage fuel gauge chip. For example the Note 4 has a kernel mod fuel gauge chip fix for extended batteries. Another example is the Galaxy S2 could reset it's fuel gauge using root. Here's some old Xperia Arc/Pro fuel chip kernel insight.
I've tried deleting /data/system/batterystats-checkin.bin, batterystats-daily.xml, and batterystats.bin. Removing the battery resets the percentage accordingly but charging and discharging is still incorrect.
Looking at /sys/class/power_supply/bms/batt_aging is "1". With /sys/class/power_supply/bms/device/fcc_new_mah "2313". Or fcc_samples "2380/2156/2268/2268/2366". FCC meaning full charge capacity. This could well be evidence.
I just received a replacement Z3C yesterday to load up LOS N again. I haven't opened it up yet, it's device manufacture tag is 15W04. My nandroid restore has batt_aging "0", fcc_new_mah "0", fcc_samples "0/0/0/0/0/". AccuBattery estimates health near 2600 and dividing mAh by percent usage is approximate. I guess a full cycle is in order to confirm some things. If on AOSP, drivers aren't configured to lower the capacity range, that's less the issue of variability. However the range seems to be hard set to 2600, so the S8+ battery will be running for an extra ~700mAh after 0%.
I found the app CaliBattery is a useful basic way to estimate percentage by voltage. This helps with overcoming stock's aging estimator, though it's notification doesn't update for me on LOS14.1. For example if you received a new official replacement battery but restored a Nandroid backup, you'd have the same battery issues mentioned until enough full cycles are run, recorded and used by the system. On the counter side an old battery on AOSP if it's hard set to 2600 (need test confirmation of this) will turn off before 1%.
One possible workaround is to take voltage readings and calculate percentage using Tasker and write that to system percentage with root. The problem there is efficiency and not updating while screen's off in interest of power. A proper fix requires modifying the relevant fuel gauge configuration in the kernel. I'm not a developer nor have any kernel building experience to do that.
Edit: I stumbled across /sys/module/qpnp_bms/parameters/bms_reset which seems to be a generic kernel setting allowing to reset the percentage. This with Tasker helps with getting the level correct before and after charging. If something like CaliBattery can show approximate level when draining, things seem ok as a workaround. Still needs further testing, and to try on AOSP (the file does exist at least). To be continued...

Infy_AsiX said:
That's certainly some impressive power consumption. Was that on stock before N? I've always been stock ROM until now that I'm migrating transitioning to LOS N across two Z3Cs.
I also started trying AccuBattery a few days ago and found it quite useful in a few ways. How it records charging/discharging sessions with mA and mAh data, provides a way to track energy consumption. It's Process CPU usage overlay helped me realise the live wallpaper I had was using 50% of my CPU generally and that DevCheck's overlay is resource intensive. Though AccuB's CPU usage overlay doesn't work on N properly anymore due to SELinux. I found however capacity health estimates are incorrect on my stock ROM, doing some digging and have come up with a basic understanding.
It gets a little complicated so it's confusing and some more testing or other's checking is needed to confirm some specific things. I only had one phone this week so I tested it on my stock ROM with the S8+ battery. The screenshots confirm AccuB recorded close to the expected capacity of the S8+. Note the device was not used in a way to represent a constant drain, the timing is just to demonstrate separation. The screenshots are scattered in content as I was just grabbing the stats not expecting the below 1% occurrence. To understand just look for what's described above each for explanation.
Showing percentage output "50%" at ~3.8V when it should be 70%, 3:35 (pm ).
https://i.imgur.com/qZwnCDy
At ~3.65V it hit "1%" 4:48pm.
https://i.imgur.com/JQrqwAG
~3.6V below "1%" 6:26pm. Around this voltage holds the most energy, why 0.05V lasted so long from the last screenshot.
https://i.imgur.com/ZQTZU29
~3.45V below "1%" 6:59pm
https://i.imgur.com/8kZaWSm
Last screenshot ~3.25V before cutoff at 3.2V 7:07pm.
https://i.imgur.com/16PysRL
Post session stats screenshots. Note the session started at 99% because I forgot to restore AccuBattery's Titanium data until after booting, meaning some mAh is missing from 100% but as seen AccuB tracked close to the expected capacity of the S8+. In regards to SOT in my last post, there's confirmation my old stock ROM averages 600mA with screen on. Note the screen off mA is high because of playing Google Music on phone speakers the entire cycle. Obviously the %/h is false here due to the missing ~1100mAh below 0%.
AccuB's charging health estimates are constantly incorrect at ~2000mAh. I think this is caused by system battery aging calibration that is set on my old stock ROM. Doesn't matter which whether stock 2014, stock '15 or S8+ '17 battery is used. Dividing a discharge session mAh by percent used gives the same approximate low mAh per percentage. This is why the S8+ battery keeps running at 1% remaining for over another 1000mAh. Doing some searching of the symptom takes me back to the days where third party extended batteries were used, meeting the issue. The main issue is the kernel controls the calibrating capacity percentage fuel gauge chip. For example the Note 4 has a kernel mod fuel gauge chip fix for extended batteries. Another example is the Galaxy S2 could reset it's fuel gauge using root. Here's some old Xperia Arc/Pro fuel chip kernel insight.
I've tried deleting /data/system/batterystats-checkin.bin, batterystats-daily.xml, and batterystats.bin. Removing the battery resets the percentage accordingly but charging and discharging is still incorrect.
Looking at /sys/class/power_supply/bms/batt_aging is "1". With /sys/class/power_supply/bms/device/fcc_new_mah "2313". Or fcc_samples "2380/2156/2268/2268/2366". FCC meaning full charge capacity. This could well be evidence.
I just received a replacement Z3C yesterday to load up LOS N again. I haven't opened it up yet, it's device manufacture tag is 15W04. My nandroid restore has batt_aging "0", fcc_new_mah "0", fcc_samples "0/0/0/0/0/". AccuBattery estimates health near 2600 and dividing mAh by percent usage is approximate. I guess a full cycle is in order to confirm some things. If on AOSP, drivers aren't configured to lower the capacity range, that's less the issue of variability. However the range seems to be hard set to 2600, so the S8+ battery will be running for an extra ~700mAh after 0%.
I found the app CaliBattery is a useful basic way to estimate percentage by voltage. This helps with overcoming stock's aging estimator, though it's notification doesn't update for me on LOS14.1. For example if you received a new official replacement battery but restored a Nandroid backup, you'd have the same battery issues mentioned until enough full cycles are run, recorded and used by the system. On the counter side an old battery on AOSP if it's hard set to 2600 (need test confirmation of this) will turn off before 1%.
One possible workaround is to take voltage readings and calculate percentage using Tasker and write that to system percentage with root. The problem there is efficiency and not updating while screen's off in interest of power. A proper fix requires modifying the relevant fuel gauge configuration in the kernel. I'm not a developer nor have any kernel building experience to do that.
Edit: I stumbled across /sys/module/qpnp_bms/parameters/bms_reset which seems to be a Sony kernel setting allowing to reset the percentage. This with Tasker helps with getting the level correct before and after charging. If something like CaliBattery can show approximate level when draining, things seem ok as a workaround. Still needs further testing, and to try on AOSP (the file does exist at least). To be continued...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was on stock, the most efficient one was LP, the last 5.1.1, I got constantly 8+ hours of SOT, and even 9+ in half of those charges probably, but as soon as I flashed the first stable official MM build and then went back to LP (in the same month even) the battery life dropped significantly, and the only thing I remember that could have changed was the bootloader, literally nothing else, but I doubt it has anything to do with battery life.
You can see the screenshots here just after flashing the 5.1.1 back then. -> https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=68155846&postcount=16
And also I have observed the battery stats through AccuB, you can check some on attachment shots, and if measurements are valid my screen power draw is 350-400 mA and the battery health is reported to be at ~2400ma or ~92% which is actually more than I expected And as you can see, the standby drain is unusually high, been that way since I flashed the rom, and I'm sure it has to be lower, but will tackle that when O gets more bugs fixed. All of this is on Carbon N rom by Myself5.
I can see that you've done your homework extensively, which is impressive Now, for the battery capacity coding part, I'm not sure if its hard coded as I've used my phone just a month ago until 1% and it didn't die where it should because the battery capacity is lower. Don't know about the way to reset the battery chip (or gauge) since it has been said that its self regulated, unlike the Galaxy S2 as you've mentioned and I owned it as well and done that. It might level out through a number of successive charging cycles, try to load it with clean rom and give it a go, why would they hard code the capacity, that's weird, but that's beyond my knowledge anyway.

Cirra92 said:
And also I have observed the battery stats through AccuB, you can check some on attachment shots, and if measurements are valid my screen power draw is 350-400 mA and the battery health is reported to be at ~2400ma or ~92% which is actually more than I expected And as you can see, the standby drain is unusually high, been that way since I flashed the rom, and I'm sure it has to be lower, but will tackle that when O gets more bugs fixed. All of this is on Carbon N rom by Myself5.
I can see that you've done your homework extensively, which is impressive Now, for the battery capacity coding part, I'm not sure if its hard coded as I've used my phone just a month ago until 1% and it didn't die where it should because the battery capacity is lower. Don't know about the way to reset the battery chip (or gauge) since it has been said that its self regulated, unlike the Galaxy S2 as you've mentioned and I owned it as well and done that. It might level out through a number of successive charging cycles, try to load it with clean rom and give it a go, why would they hard code the capacity, that's weird, but that's beyond my knowledge anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think AccuBattery's health estimate is unreliable after noticing how it seems to report by the ROM's provided mAh/% rather than usage. It's discharging mA rate and history total discharge however are useful as they seem to track mAh usage current. So I think doing a full cycle noting the history's total mAh thus avoiding any kernel/ROM BMS configuration interference may be the only way to check.
I'll get around to testing the S8+ battery on AOSP soon. I ran this replacement Z3C on LOS almost flat but aging stats in /battery haven't changed. I guess the BMS aging stats are hidden by not linking to output like Sony's stock. I made up my own CaliBattery style notification through Tasker and have BMS reset on every % change when charging. So far it looks to be a workable workaround.
If some close to three year old batteries do still have 90% health, the batteries are actually good after all. My first two Z3C batteries were swollen under a year, but I lacked knowledge on maintaining them back then. Well that and the design problem of overheating during gaming and charging at 100% to keep topped up due to too slow charging without a swappable battery. The reasons why I've ended up learning all this, modding a removable feature with a custom charging profile on Tasker.

@Infy_AsiX Hey man how is your battery mod doing? Is it still in life?
Did you manage to track where is that battery capacity coded, if it is anyway?

Cirra92 said:
@Infy_AsiX Hey man how is your battery mod doing? Is it still in life?
Did you manage to track where is that battery capacity coded, if it is anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe are you checking if I experienced a lithium-ion battery fire?
I didn't delve further than previously discussed as by workaround the charging and estimation is functioning well enough. To change the charger and battery functions is kernel code and would require some understanding to work.
The Z1C Ringke Rearth Fusion case fits like a glove with the extra mm for the plastic spacers I install too. Looks nice and cool while working well. The Z3C is still my preferred phone size form factor and I need it as a bike computer with smartphone extras. For multimedia and gaming consumption I picked up a ZTE Axon 7 to complement.
Sent from my ZTE Axon 7 using XDA Labs

Infy_AsiX said:
Hehe are you checking if I experienced a lithium-ion battery fire?
I didn't delve further than previously discussed as by workaround the charging and estimation is functioning well enough. To change the charger and battery functions is kernel code and would require some understanding to work.
The Z1C Ringke Rearth Fusion case fits like a glove with the extra mm for the plastic spacers I install too. Looks nice and cool while working well. The Z3C is still my preferred phone size form factor and I need it as a bike computer with smartphone extras. For multimedia and gaming consumption I picked up a ZTE Axon 7 to complement.
Sent from my ZTE Axon 7 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha no, I thought maybe you had any kind of issue with it and just gave it a good swing through the window
So the battery level reading did not level out with certain number of cycles, at least to a certain amount? I thought maybe that it would get recorded by system and the kernel would adapt that accordingly, since my best guess is that it's a dynamic reading, rather than pre-set capacity, as you've mentioned yourself.
Anyway, if I go that road, and I'm considering that seriously as of late, I would like to explore the ways to attach the back panel and keeping a stock look. Where did you put those plastic spacers?
Good choice on that Axon 7

Cirra92 said:
Haha no, I thought maybe you had any kind of issue with it and just gave it a good swing through the window
So the battery level reading did not level out with certain number of cycles, at least to a certain amount? I thought maybe that it would get recorded by system and the kernel would adapt that accordingly, since my best guess is that it's a dynamic reading, rather than pre-set capacity, as you've mentioned yourself.
Anyway, if I go that road, and I'm considering that seriously as of late, I would like to explore the ways to attach the back panel and keeping a stock look. Where did you put those plastic spacers?
Good choice on that Axon 7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may have adjusted the Full Charge Capacity back to what the Z3C considers a full new stock 2600Mah. The purpose of that is just to recalibrate the fuel gauge percentage outputs for accuracy throughout the range to account for degradation I think. I recall something like a couple bits of code mentioning 2600 in the kernel battery somewhere back when I did some peeking. The kernel defines the battery size and the related BMS functions and calculates on that premise.
Anyway it's stock feature. I moved onto AOSP so can't say how stock would've exactly responded except as I speculate above. AOSP doesn't implement the feature, I can assume without it, earlier shutdowns or rapid unsmooth drops in percentages can occur on degraded batteries. Think of Apple's degraded battery CPU throttling controversy, it's a new issue because of greater peak power demand of modern performance and combine that with how battery voltage can spike low due to this. I've learnt more about this by investigating how Axon 7 users with degraded batteries are experiencing throttling too under a Qualcomm BCL enabled feature. I made a thread about it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/axon-7/how-to/degraded-battery-bcl-device-lag-t3752545
The plastic spacers are in the last photo in the album. I'm talking about the ones to allow an air gap for lowering heat stress without these a normal Z3C case will fit well. I could probably update a photo, I do use a couple plastic spacers to hold the battery alignment too. The battery itself is obviously thicker than stock so straight installing the back panel won't work well. A case is easiest as no back panel is required, if you prefer the look, you could use a clear back case and just place the back panel before it.
To recap the battery itself functions fully and charges fine. Without kernel fixes the percentage will be 0% when there's the extra energy left. Using an alternative app to provide a custom estimated percentage based on voltage is a way to see remaining power. I made my own Tasker profiles to custom calculate displaying a notification that also considers plug state.
Sent from my ZTE Axon 7 using XDA Labs

Infy_AsiX said:
It may have adjusted the Full Charge Capacity back to what the Z3C considers a full new stock 2600Mah. The purpose of that is just to recalibrate the fuel gauge percentage outputs for accuracy throughout the range to account for degradation I think. I recall something like a couple bits of code mentioning 2600 in the kernel battery somewhere back when I did some peeking. The kernel defines the battery size and the related BMS functions and calculates on that premise.
Anyway it's stock feature. I moved onto AOSP so can't say how stock would've exactly responded except as I speculate above. AOSP doesn't implement the feature, I can assume without it, earlier shutdowns or rapid unsmooth drops in percentages can occur on degraded batteries. Think of Apple's degraded battery CPU throttling controversy, it's a new issue because of greater peak power demand of modern performance and combine that with how battery voltage can spike low due to this. I've learnt more about this by investigating how Axon 7 users with degraded batteries are experiencing throttling too under a Qualcomm BCL enabled feature. I made a thread about it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/axon-7/how-to/degraded-battery-bcl-device-lag-t3752545
The plastic spacers are in the last photo in the album. I'm talking about the ones to allow an air gap for lowering heat stress without these a normal Z3C case will fit well. I could probably update a photo, I do use a couple plastic spacers to hold the battery alignment too. The battery itself is obviously thicker than stock so straight installing the back panel won't work well. A case is easiest as no back panel is required, if you prefer the look, you could use a clear back case and just place the back panel before it.
To recap the battery itself functions fully and charges fine. Without kernel fixes the percentage will be 0% when there's the extra energy left. Using an alternative app to provide a custom estimated percentage based on voltage is a way to see remaining power. I made my own Tasker profiles to custom calculate displaying a notification that also considers plug state.
Sent from my ZTE Axon 7 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the always extensive and in-depth reply
Well that does make sense to have it embedded in kernel code somewhere.
I am on AOSP as well, almost a year already, but I haven't noticed any lags or slowdowns on low battery levels (low voltage levels) even down to 1%, and my battery will be 3 years old in June. Either the system has adapted to degradation or my battery didn't degrade much, which I really doubt since I had a lot of 100% -> 0% cycles and the battery was under high CPU and temperature stress in a lot of occasions.
As for the spacers, yes I forgot the pictures, I've seen them again. Now, I want to try and fit the original back panel, I know the GS8+ battery is 1mm thicker, however right now when I glue my back panel so that it has tight fit on the frame, it is actually "intruding" in the back of the phone, and it's not level with edges of the side frame, it's rather inside. The idea is to use let's say two layers of a double sided tape directly on the frame to compensate for that 1mm, apply the B7000 on top of that and on side walls of the frame as much as possible and place the back panel. I hope you understood since my english might not be up to that level
Since it's my only phone atm I would like to keep it decent looking as much as possible
My normal usage of the phone does not involve heavy tasks at all so temperature is not my concern, that's why I want to use the original back panel to close it down.
And yes I remember you are using Tasker to read the actual voltage level, although it would "hurt" my eyes to look at that non-linear stock battery indicator, I would have to do it as well

Please, could somebody share his voltage/percentage curve for tasker? And which system interface did you use to update the battery percentage? And did somebody of you test how effecient tasker does handle events? It would be not so usefull if it is taking additional 200mA during 10h runtime for event handling and system updates.
Did anybody find out how to change the charging overvoltage cutoff and the shutdown voltage? I would like to stress my battery a little bit more to get every thing out of my 44g for the first 50 to 100 cycles until it gets replaced.
A custom charging cutoff voltage and shutdown trigger voltage would be the best solution for a lightweight outdoor navigation device with 30-50 cycles per year. My device is so highly specialized that I did even remove the cameras and exchange the glass backpannel with a 0.25mm thin carbon pannel.
Kind Regards
Falco

Related

i spoke to htc about the abysmal battery life, they say that there could be extended batteries in the near future, with a new back cover (with the back sticking out)
i dont mind charging it every day but
everytime i do something basic, for couple of minutes, it goes down by 1 percent, everything is turned off, gsm 2g mode, etc.
anyway the guy at htc said its due to the massive screen, this is what drains majority of the juice,

For what this device has and what it can do the battery life is pretty good, if you just use it for a few random pics, bit of browsing, bit of music and a few calls you should get a days use, if you sit there for ages messing with it its gonna drain.
Im pleased with it myself, apart from the bugs, but waiting......

It's killing you literally? Step away man!

I find the battery life on-par with other smart phones I've owned. I use a desktop cradle (well should soon be using a desktop cradle) and an active holder in the car, so I find the battery keeps up OK with a typical day's use for me. The biggest battery killer is when the screen is on full brightness so I find essential to have the phone on power when I'm using the satnav.

I had really high hopes for this thread when I read the title. Needless to say, I'm pretty disappointed.
Where's the death I was promised?

Die and prove it.

mox123 said:
i spoke to htc about the abysmal battery life, they say that there could be extended batteries in the near future, with a new back cover (with the back sticking out)
i dont mind charging it every day but
everytime i do something basic, for couple of minutes, it goes down by 1 percent, everything is turned off, gsm 2g mode, etc.
anyway the guy at htc said its due to the massive screen, this is what drains majority of the juice,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair most smartphones drain their batteries pretty damned quickly. Disconnect your data connection when you're not using it and bluetooth too. OK so you won't get weather updates but you'll save battery life. Just charge it nightly and buy a car charger if you really drain that sucker!

Wow, I think battery life is good considering the screen, better than I expected.
Currently, with screen set to 70% brightness, push email on 0800-1800 with hourly retrieval outside those hours, hourly weather/Twitter update, automatic Quick-GPS almanac data update, I last all day (~0700 to 2300), and still with about 20-30% headroom with the following use:
Push email as per above settings
50 minutes GPS tracking
50 minutes bluetooth on (heart rate monitor)
1-2 hours listening to music
Around 1-2 hours high-drain use (screen on, using cellular data/WiFi/GPS - for example browsing/app use/gaming/watching video)
30-40 SMS
15 minutes calls

One simple little trick that I learnt some time ago to preserve battery life is ..........turn down the brightness of the screen display. The brighter it is the more juice gets used.
Get the screen to turn itself off after, say, 30 secs of use. That also helps.
The rest, such as killing off data connections when not in use, etc, you already know.
It never ceases to surprise me at the number of negative comments re battery life. The impression I am left with is that if the battery does not last at least 2 months between charges, even though it is being hammered to within an inch of it's life, then that makes the battery performance rubbish. Anyone ever heard of a battery charger?
It's a really easy to use piece of kit that comes with your device that can be plugged in at night when you are asleep, leaving your device fresh for the morning.
Amazing.
WB

What the heck do you expect from such a phone? The energy management is kinda good and it's the display that kills battery life. You have to get use to it. At least my Touch HD seems to last much longer, but I would never change back.
If you watch a video your battery capacity drops quickly. I estimated 4,3-4,5h of HW-acc WVGA video and 3,5h with a non-HW-acc VGA video. Not that much but it really looks fantastic.
My Solution for this problem is: second battery, extended battery and/or load the battery whereever u can. My normal usage drains 30% of the battery a day, so I get 3 days of normal usage (I'm not an excessive handy user). The standby duration is with 300h not that good, but yeah that means still 12,5 days of standby if I calculated correctly.
The point is, that the phone is that good that I'm attracted to play with it and then the battery life tends to last just a day or less.
I bought a second battery (~22€) just for longer rides. I think it's ok.

mox123 said:
i spoke to htc about the abysmal battery life, they say that there could be extended batteries in the near future, with a new back cover (with the back sticking out)
i dont mind charging it every day but
everytime i do something basic, for couple of minutes, it goes down by 1 percent, everything is turned off, gsm 2g mode, etc.
anyway the guy at htc said its due to the massive screen, this is what drains majority of the juice,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EEK!, don't come on this forum and complain about the HD2! not allowed. this is now the official HD2 Appreciation society, don't ya know.
I recommend instead you buy some lube oil, massage it into the device, light some candles, play a bit of Barry White, and all will be well.
Then come on this site and reassure all the sensitive souls here that it is indeed the Holy Grail of mobiles and admit you are a Troll for finding a fault with it, and daring to ask about why it does not preform as it says on the tin.
And final advice...In the words of legendary Basil Fawlty... Don't mention the War !..or in this case, the Keyboard!!, I mentioned it once...and thought I got away with it..but no.

hawrai68 said:
EEK!, don't come on this forum and complain about the HD2! not allowed. this is now the official HD2 Appreciation society, don't ya know.
I recommend instead you buy some lube oil, massage it into the device, light some candles, play a bit of Barry White, and all will be well.
Then come on this site and reassure all the sensitive souls here that it is indeed the Holy Grail of mobiles and admit you are a Troll for finding a fault with it, and daring to ask about why it does not preform as it says on the tin.
And final advice...In the words of legendary Basil Fawlty... Don't mention the War !..or in this case, the Keyboard!!, I mentioned it once...and thought I got away with it..but no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice one.

NetDwarf said:
What the heck do you expect from such a phone? The energy management is kinda good and it's the display that kills battery life. You have to get use to it. At least my Touch HD seems to last much longer, but I would never change back.
If you watch a video your battery capacity drops quickly. I estimated 4,3-4,5h of HW-acc WVGA video and 3,5h with a non-HW-acc VGA video. Not that much but it really looks fantastic.
My Solution for this problem is: second battery, extended battery and/or load the battery whereever u can. My normal usage drains 30% of the battery a day, so I get 3 days of normal usage (I'm not an excessive handy user). The standby duration is with 300h not that good, but yeah that means still 12,5 days of standby if I calculated correctly.
The point is, that the phone is that good that I'm attracted to play with it and then the battery life tends to last just a day or less.
I bought a second battery (~22€) just for longer rides. I think it's ok.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly !!
1000 Mhz this bugger does.
And really its more then just a phone. with the battery cunsumption like wise.
But they told me one thing,,. something that Noone does
When you get the HD2. Its battery got 20% juice init.
Thats not for fun of the company (prolly sanyo) was laizy and dint bother to fill em 100%.
You have to charge the battery 6 to 12 hours and to peeking at your new jewel.
And i know Noone ever does that. But it ensures batterylife and eficiency
Here is the article >>
Initialize a new battery. New batteries should be fully charged before their first use to obtain maximum capacity.
Nickel-based batteries should be charged for 16 hours initially and run through 2-4 full charge/full discharge cycles, while lithium ion batteries should be charged for about 5-6 hours.
Ignore the phone telling you that the battery is full--this is normal but is not accurate if the battery is not initialized.
#DO NOT fully discharge a lithium-ion battery!
Unlike Ni-Cd batteries, lithium-ion batteries' life is shortened every time you fully discharge them.
Instead, charge them when the battery meter shows one bar left.
Lithium-ion batteries, like most rechargeable batteries have a set amount of chargers in them.[1]
2Keep the battery cool.
Your battery will last longest if used near room temperature, and nothing wears on a battery like extended exposure to high temperatures. While you can’t control the weather, you can avoid leaving your phone in a hot car or in direct sunlight, and you don’t have to carry your phone in your pocket, where your body heat will raise its temperature.
In addition, check the battery while it’s charging. If it seems excessively hot, your charger may be malfunctioning.
3Charge your battery correctly, in accordance with its type. Most newer cell phones have lithium-ion batteries, while older ones generally have nickel-based batteries. Read the label on the back of the battery or in the technical specifications in the manual to determine which yours is.
Nickel-based batteries (either NiCd or NiMH) DO NOT generally suffer from a misunderstood phenomenon known as the "memory effect." As described in Wikipedia and many expert sources,[2] the term "memory effect" has been widely mythologized to describe any and all deterioration of NiCd (and other battery chemistries), in many cases misleading consumers into further shortening the lives of the batteries through over-discharging to "recondition" them.[3]
[This section formerly read: If you charge the battery partially enough times, eventually the battery "forgets" that it can charge fully. A nickel-based battery suffering from memory effect can be reconditioned, which requires the battery to be completely discharged, then completely recharged (sometimes several times). The appropriate length of time between reconditionings varies. A good rule to follow for nickel-battery cell-phones is to discharge them completely once every two to three weeks, and only when you have a charger available. [4] ]
Lithium ion batteries can be preserved by careful charging and avoiding storing them at full charge.[5] They do not require "reconditioning."
Regardless of the battery type, use only a charger rated for your battery, and discontinue use of a charger that causes the battery to heat up excessively.

Enonoid said:
Exactly !!
1000 Mhz this bugger does.
And really its more then just a phone. with the battery cunsumption like wise.
But they told me one thing,,. something that Noone does
When you get the HD2. Its battery got 20% juice init.
Thats not for fun of the company (prolly sanyo) was laizy and dint bother to fill em 100%.
You have to charge the battery 6 to 12 hours and to peeking at your new jewel.
And i know Noone ever does that. But it ensures batterylife and eficiency
Here is the article >>
Initialize a new battery. New batteries should be fully charged before their first use to obtain maximum capacity.
Nickel-based batteries should be charged for 16 hours initially and run through 2-4 full charge/full discharge cycles, while lithium ion batteries should be charged for about 5-6 hours.
Ignore the phone telling you that the battery is full--this is normal but is not accurate if the battery is not initialized.
#DO NOT fully discharge a lithium-ion battery!
Unlike Ni-Cd batteries, lithium-ion batteries' life is shortened every time you fully discharge them.
Instead, charge them when the battery meter shows one bar left.
Lithium-ion batteries, like most rechargeable batteries have a set amount of chargers in them.[1]
2Keep the battery cool.
Your battery will last longest if used near room temperature, and nothing wears on a battery like extended exposure to high temperatures. While you can’t control the weather, you can avoid leaving your phone in a hot car or in direct sunlight, and you don’t have to carry your phone in your pocket, where your body heat will raise its temperature.
In addition, check the battery while it’s charging. If it seems excessively hot, your charger may be malfunctioning.
3Charge your battery correctly, in accordance with its type. Most newer cell phones have lithium-ion batteries, while older ones generally have nickel-based batteries. Read the label on the back of the battery or in the technical specifications in the manual to determine which yours is.
Nickel-based batteries (either NiCd or NiMH) DO NOT generally suffer from a misunderstood phenomenon known as the "memory effect." As described in Wikipedia and many expert sources,[2] the term "memory effect" has been widely mythologized to describe any and all deterioration of NiCd (and other battery chemistries), in many cases misleading consumers into further shortening the lives of the batteries through over-discharging to "recondition" them.[3]
[This section formerly read: If you charge the battery partially enough times, eventually the battery "forgets" that it can charge fully. A nickel-based battery suffering from memory effect can be reconditioned, which requires the battery to be completely discharged, then completely recharged (sometimes several times). The appropriate length of time between reconditionings varies. A good rule to follow for nickel-battery cell-phones is to discharge them completely once every two to three weeks, and only when you have a charger available. [4] ]
Lithium ion batteries can be preserved by careful charging and avoiding storing them at full charge.[5] They do not require "reconditioning."
Regardless of the battery type, use only a charger rated for your battery, and discontinue use of a charger that causes the battery to heat up excessively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame most powerful mobiles heat up like nobody's business whilst on full chat these days.....there's no chance of keeping the batteries cool! Still, it's an expendable item and at least you can buy a replacement.....none of this iPhone 'sealed' tin rubbish.

while i find the battery life reasonable with the features this phone has (read screen size, processor speed), it will be nice to get the CPU throttling app another thread is discussing. don't need that 1000MHz running everytime i pick the phone.
On the same notes, how can i check if automatic screen brightness is kicking in?

here4info said:
how can i check if automatic screen brightness is kicking in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stick the phone under a bright light such as a desk lamp and cover the light sensor with a piece of paper.

here4info said:
while i find the battery life reasonable with the features this phone has (read screen size, processor speed), it will be nice to get the CPU throttling app another thread is discussing. don't need that 1000MHz running everytime i pick the phone.
On the same notes, how can i check if automatic screen brightness is kicking in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly isn't running when I boot my phone up....hardly gives an impression of speed.

mox123 said:
i spoke to htc about the abysmal battery life, they say that there could be extended batteries in the near future, with a new back cover (with the back sticking out)
i dont mind charging it every day but
everytime i do something basic, for couple of minutes, it goes down by 1 percent, everything is turned off, gsm 2g mode, etc.
anyway the guy at htc said its due to the massive screen, this is what drains majority of the juice,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you the first wm phone user? Do you have good experience with phones that has so much specs? Do you use wifi and browse with phone very heavily? If you do, it is really normal that the battery will drain. My Touch HD does the same, it can last a day or 2 or drain like water not more than half a day, it depends on your usage. Try to get a second battery, or even the third one like I do, what is a big deal? It is completely normal.

I don't have a lot complaints on this phone as it meets most of my requirements.about the battery, I seriously don't think it is that bad. for example if you have a car with 1500 horse power and expect it to have or rather 30-40 mpg, don't think it is possible. try to use your local gas station (in this case your friendly charger) more often.move on with your life please.

c4Lvin said:
I don't have a lot complaints on this phone as it meets most of my requirements.about the battery, I seriously don't think it is that bad. for example if you have a car with 1500 horse power and expect it to have or rather 30-40 mpg, don't think it is possible. try to use your local gas station (in this case your friendly charger) more often.move on with your life please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might be a little difficult because this battery problem is killing him, LITERALLY

I've read this thread started by JamesBarnes and it got me thinking. The setup he has done is good, but we actually have all those things in our phones. We've got a multimeter (current widget), we've got a power draining load (the phone itself) and the major drawback in his setup is eliminated. He is actually measuring the capacity of the battery to be compared with other batteries, but our phones protect the batteries by switching off with some charge left in the battery because LiIon batteries should not be drained completely. This means a/ you can't damage your battery by full cycling and b/ the phone does not use all the battery capacity. So HTC says 1230mAh, but what is the actual usable capacity of the battery? The most precise measurement should be with a constant minimal drain, but this will take too much time. The next best thing is the charge cycle. So I drained my battery untill shutdown. Then I powered on (I have fastboot enabled, so the phone turns off at 1% to have some energy left to power the memory while "off"), set the current widged to update at 30 sec, cleared the log and plugged in the charger. Then I turned off the screen and left the phone to fully charge overnight. In the morning I downloaded the log and calculated the energy that was pumped in the battery. The result is 1121 mAh. You can calculate yours too. You just have to sum the results of the charge current and then multiply the result to the time interval measured in hours (for 30 sec interval you should actually divide by 120). There is a small bug with current widget and it doesn't really log every period. Sometimes it's a bit more and sometimes it skips. So I wrote a small matlab program to calculate the exact capacity and if you want, you can send me your log of a full charge, or you can calculate it yourselves - just set a higher interval because this way the error will be smaller.
If anyone has a spare DHD (not likely) can leave the phone at airplane mode with 300 sec log interval and in a few days we'll have an exact value of the battery capacity.

tkolev said:
If anyone has a spare DHD (not likely) can leave the phone at airplane mode with 300 sec log interval and in a few days we'll have an exact value of the battery capacity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, what you will have is the exact capacity of one particular battery. LI-ion batteries vary in the charge they hold depending on how they have been used and for how long they have been used, so IMHO the above data would not be applicable to the community at large, also don't forget it's the DHD that decides when the battery is fully charged so that would add another uncertainty to the pot.

ghostofcain said:
No, what you will have is the exact capacity of one particular battery. LI-ion batteries vary in the charge they hold depending on how they have been used and for how long they have been used, so IMHO the above data would not be applicable to the community at large, also don't forget it's the DHD that decides when the battery is fully charged so that would add another uncertainty to the pot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The purpose of my post was to explain how can anyone measure their own batteries. I don't care about yours, you don't care about mine - that's for sure. But how can you know when buying a replacement battery that the xxxx mAh written on the back is true (and it usualy isn't)? "Lasting longer" is subjective and my method gives you an objective measurement. My battery is five month's old. 1121mAh is a plausable value proving that the method works. If you don't want to bother to do the math yourself, you can send me the log, so I'll do it for you. If you want to know about the current capacity of your battery - fine. If you don't want to know - it's also fine. Also if we can gather some precise measurements (minimizing the error by using constant drain over a longer period) on the capacity we can eliminate the error introduced by the different units and we'll know what to expect from stock batteries and thus we can compare the non-OEM ones to them.

plus, Li-ions usable capacitys change with the batterys temperature and current. How is knowing that my battery could give me 1100mAh @ 5mA/300K of any value to me if I usually need my phone @200mA/280K? Measuring while charging ain't the best idea either, because heat dissipated by the battery during the process will show up in your reading. (and dissipated heat is not the kind of energy that you'd call 'usable')
Also, I am not really sure, how bumping the interval up, thus generating less discrete measurements, is going to increase accuracy...

llama-power said:
plus, Li-ions usable capacitys change with the batterys temperature and current. How is knowing that my battery could give me 1100mAh @ 5mA/300K of any value to me if I usually need my phone @200mA/280K? Measuring while charging ain't the best idea either, because heat dissipated by the battery during the process will show up in your reading. (and dissipated heat is not the kind of energy that you'd call 'usable')
Also, I am not really sure, how bumping the interval up, thus generating less discrete measurements, is going to increase accuracy...
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Click to collapse
As I have said in the first post, it's best to measure the drain, not the charge, but unfortunately I can't spare the time needed without using my phone to take that measurement. The fact is that I don't know how current widget logs the current. Is it measured at the beggining of the interval, the end, is it a mean value over the whole interval, the max, the min? So we should have as constant drain as possible. That way we will eliminate the effect of different measuring methods.
The longer period is just for ease of use. Have you seen a current widget log with interval of 30 seconds? There are many missing intervals, others are 40 sec, 50 sec and the simpler method (summing up the values and multiplying by the time) doesn't work, so it won't be suitable for everyone to calculate the capacity by their own. And with a constant drain the longer period won't introduce that much of an error in the calculation.
You can't have a precise measurement for all the situations you might think of. Some days I talk over the phone for 30 minutes, some days I talk for over an hour. Some days I read e-books, other days I watch videos. The different drain causes different usable capacity as you know. The only thing that's common with the phone day-to-day usage is the stand-by periods. This might have a negative impact on the accuracy because with digital reading you have quantization which introduces bigger error on small values, but this remains to be seen. If you can have constant drain at say... 50 mAh (roughly 1:2 usage pattern), it will introduce max 2% error (depending on the value reading method by the phone). And I don't know about you, but I think 2% is nothing when dealing with something so variable like the battery capacity.

I have had my Atrix since it was first available. It is currently running stock Gingerbread and is rooted. About a month ago, I installed a Seidio 3200mAh battery because I was tired of having a phone with half the features turned off. Why have an expensive and powerful phone if you can't make it through the day without husbanding the battery? If that, one may as well save the money and stick with a feature phone.
At the same time I installed Battery Monitor Widget Pro. I am now getting a full day's hard use without worrying about the battery. The problem is that the current (mA) consumption value being reported is too high. The consequence of this is that BMW reports are misleading and I get premature battery warnings at 15% and 5%.
I often listen to music with headphones and if not wearing headphones, I am plugged into some fairly good speakers (not crazy high-end, but still good enough to not be distorted at moderately high volume). The battery warning sound is quite startling through a good sound system.
My desired outcome from this posting is to get my phone to correctly report battery usage so that I can rely on its display. Killing the audible warning is a secondary concern.
I have pulled the battery history file up into a spreadsheet and integrated the mA readings over a full discharge cycle. The result of that effort indicates my battery to be good for ~6000 mA/h. Probably not !!
I see many people who complain about these larger batteries. Some batteries may be crap, but this one is not. I believe most people who complain about larger batteries are naively believing their phone's instrumentation.
I have emailed the developer of BMW Pro but not received a response to date. Since I installed BMW Pro at the same time as I installed the new battery, I don't have a track record with BMW using the original battery. I tend to think it would have operated correctly since the BMW value tracks the system value.
This makes me wonder if there is an OS scaling parameter written by BMW that messed up the current readings.
Please don't give me the canned speech about battery calibration. That has been done and it is not the problem.

hi there!i am new to XDA. can anyone of you guys help me out with my battery problems.
I have a asus P320 windows phone . it shuts down itself when the power is still 70% . is there anyway to change the registry settings to prevent the auto shutdown due to low battery. i would'nt have bothered with this shutdown if the battery was old but i bought a brand new battery , and no matter what the ROM is it still switches off . I would really appreciate if someone could help me on this.
is there any way to change any of the registry values to disable the lowbattery warning and the autoshutdown.

The battery is not truly measured by "capacity". The capacity is derived from measurable data, mainly the voltage. The voltage for new batteries is very little depending on the load which is applied to battery. Over time (and charge cycles) however the chemistry in the battery is aging so that the load on the battery lets the voltage drop when load is applied. Load is anything like the CPU demand, lights on and so on.
So for your case it is highly probable that idle the battery shows 70% but when load is applied, the voltage drops below the shut off point and the device is off. There is no option to adjust this - it is hard-coded in the battery driver.
Have a look at my battery measurement thread linked from my signature to get some background and find a method to track this.
To give you a rough hint: fully charged, the device should be able to stay on with LCD light (fully lit) on for several hours. With what you report it should go off within less than 2 hours from my estimate.

tobbbie said:
The battery is not truly measured by "capacity". The capacity is derived from measurable data, mainly the voltage. The voltage for new batteries is very little depending on the load which is applied to battery. Over time (and charge cycles) however the chemistry in the battery is aging so that the load on the battery lets the voltage drop when load is applied. Load is anything like the CPU demand, lights on and so on.
So for your case it is highly probable that idle the battery shows 70% but when load is applied, the voltage drops below the shut off point and the device is off. There is no option to adjust this - it is hard-coded in the battery driver.
Have a look at my battery measurement thread linked from my signature to get some background and find a method to track this.
To give you a rough hint: fully charged, the device should be able to stay on with LCD light (fully lit) on for several hours. With what you report it should go off within less than 2 hours from my estimate.
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Thank you for the quick reply. well, the battery does'nt last much time though . i tried to discharge the old battery (which i still have) to 0% and when i charge it for some time and switchoff the charger it shows some % of batter left and after sometime it shutsdown showing lowbattery warning.
I can understand this happening @ 5% or even 15%but @ 60%- 70% on a brand new battery is a bit much.
if only i could just prevent the autoshutdown, in the mean time i have to check on your battery measurement thread/

From my battery thread I have linked some info on battery chemistry. Bottom line is that LiIon batteries are aging from the day they are produced and the dependency on charge cycles or discharge depth is minimal (different to older type NiMH batteries). So even if you buy a "new" battery in the shop it may be 5 years old from its production date already.
My experience with after-market batteries (so non-original) is very bad. You almost never get good quality and usually old original batteries perform better. I have lots of batteries checked on the Typhoon/Hurricane/Tornado and several on Vox/Excalibur. Especially the true original branded like Sanyo, Celxpert or Samsung have sometimes exceptional performance. I have some of these that already have 5 years (of little to modest use) and still have their nominal capacity. Recently I bought an original packed battery for the Qtek 8310 (Celxpert) which should be 5 years old - and this one has its original capacity! On the other hand I have also bought cheap Chinese that have only 30% of the labeled capacity.

Hello,
I read in the internet that is not recomended charge 100% the phone's battery. It's about the battery life. I want to know if it is really true....
Sorry my bad english :cyclops:

Maybe if you want to keep the phone for 5 years you'll notice a difference in battery life by keeping it charged between 20-80% but rarely does anyone do this.

True? Yes, it is. In the same way that it's true that a (properly done) overclock on a CPU will shorten it's lifespam. Yes the overclock will shorten the CPU's lifespam, from 20 years to maybe 15.
Your battery will degrade regardless but by the time it becomes an issue, you'll probably have moved on to a new phone anyway.

peachpuff said:
Maybe if you want to keep the phone for 5 years you'll notice a difference in battery life by keeping it charged between 20-80% but rarely does anyone do this.
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Click to collapse
But charging the battery in only 80% means that I will have less SOT before charge again

Tony_Starkus said:
But charging the battery in only 80% means that I will have less SOT before charge again
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Click to collapse
The theory behind this apparently is that how battery likes to be in certain battery levels based on the voltage.
Based on what I understand, the phone/battery likes it better if battery is not less than 20 and not more than 80.
This means that if you charge between 20 - 80, you can have a lot more charge cycles as compared to 0 - 100. This could also mean that the battery can last longer in terms of longevity.
But as mentioned, not many people does that unless they are looking to keep their phone for more than 3 years.
These are based on my limited understanding and my own experiences.
You can google battery university if you need more info.

Tony_Starkus said:
But charging the battery in only 80% means that I will have less SOT before charge again
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Click to collapse
albel said:
The theory behind this apparently is that how battery likes to be in certain battery levels based on the voltage.
Based on what I understand, the phone/battery likes it better if battery is not less than 20 and not more than 80.
This means that if you charge between 20 - 80, you can have a lot more charge cycles as compared to 0 - 100. This could also mean that the battery can last longer in terms of longevity.
But as mentioned, not many people does that unless they are looking to keep their phone for more than 3 years.
These are based on my limited understanding and my own experiences.
You can google battery university if you need more info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the information here is correct I have an am always doing battery tests research and such
80% and 20% are the magic number for maximum overall life of a battery...
Also no on mentions heat and cold also degrades the cells inside
I also recomend if you make it through the day shutting off fast charge......
If you think about it it is simmilar to any other battery,
Take a car for example I know i know lead battery vs lith ion but slow charging is the best method for any types of battery life in the long run.... it does not excite any of the ions as much as fast charging......
Fast charging on auto batteries is what we call a surface charge it quickly excites the electrons for a quick zap of juice but then over all that spreads out among all of the rest of the electrons quickly draining and shortning over life....
Slow charge generates less heat as well as does what we call a deep charge....Which is better of coarse I have had automotive batteries say like in my eclipse its 9 years old and it was a 800 amp battery and even after 9 years now
It retains over 650 amps on battery tests because i slow charge it once a month for a couple days be it need it or not..
Also if you guys are over worried and snap dragon try part cyborg rom the engineering kernel used by samdung only allow for a 80% charge.....I get more screen on time than stock on less charge because it is optimized so well....any where from 6 to 8.5+ hours and that is more than enough more my needs....
Also wireless chargers generate heat which degrade life on batts cells.....
I can get way more into detail on any of these if any one wishes

TheMadScientist said:
Most of the information here is correct I have an am always doing battery tests research and such
80% and 20% are the magic number for maximum overall life of a battery...
Also no on mentions heat and cold also degrades the cells inside
I also recomend if you make it through the day shutting off fast charge......
If you think about it it is simmilar to any other battery,
Take a car for example I know i know lead battery vs lith ion but slow charging is the best method for any types of battery life in the long run.... it does not excite any of the ions as much as fast charging......
Fast charging on auto batteries is what we call a surface charge it quickly excites the electrons for a quick zap of juice but then over all that spreads out among all of the rest of the electrons quickly draining and shortning over life....
Slow charge generates less heat as well as does what we call a deep charge....Which is better of coarse I have had automotive batteries say like in my eclipse its 9 years old and it was a 800 amp battery and even after 9 years now
It retains over 650 amps on battery tests because i slow charge it once a month for a couple days be it need it or not..
Also if you guys are over worried and snap dragon try part cyborg rom the engineering kernel used by samdung only allow for a 80% charge.....I get more screen on time than stock on less charge because it is optimized so well....any where from 6 to 8.5+ hours and that is more than enough more my needs....
Also wireless chargers generate heat which degrade life on batts cells.....
I can get way more into detail on any of these if any one wishes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have just started reading about s8 stuff and have not rooted yet. Does the kernel allow you to set maximum charge? I remember back on sgs1 specific kernels allowed this but haven't seen it much since then

c-pimp said:
Have just started reading about s8 stuff and have not rooted yet. Does the kernel allow you to set maximum charge? I remember back on sgs1 specific kernels allowed this but haven't seen it much since then
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Click to collapse
no samsung preset it at 80% and since the bootloaders locked no way to modify it

Ahh I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Looks like since I'm on oreo now I'm stuck without root so I won't be playing with any of that stuff. Have a good one!