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Hey guys, I am generally very pleased with X10 camera, but so far i was unable to find any explanation about camera modes. So far I had been using normal and night landscape only, cause i dont what other are for. I've seen people using Beach and snow mode for low light images etc, and results were quite fine.
So is there anyone here, who can explain things about modes, more from technical side like: shutter speed, ISO values and things like that? I think it will be usefull for everyone here.
Thanks
hibiskus said:
Hey guys, I am generally very pleased with X10 camera, but so far i was unable to find any explanation about camera modes. So far I had been using normal and night landscape only, cause i dont what other are for. I've seen people using Beach and snow mode for low light images etc, and results were quite fine.
So is there anyone here, who can explain things about modes, more from technical side like: shutter speed, ISO values and things like that? I think it will be usefull for everyone here.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of now, I am currently using the "touch mode" I could use the "normal" mode before. But for whatever reasons, couldn't use it
The sport mode is for capturing images of things moving, beach and snow mode is for pictures taken at the beach or outside in the snow. party says it self, landscape is for pictures taken fx a mountain
Well, more important than those modes is:
- use the EV compensation.
go with it minus one or two steps and keep the sun behind you.
also, lowering the EV helps in low light too because will reduce the ISO.
ofcourse, in low light you will need better hands
- another very very important thing is: metering modes.
for macro images use spot (also use spot if you have most of the image around your object with one color: ex. a kid in the snow. in this case camera will do the metering where your focus point is ... the kid ... so the kid will be "better exposed").
use average for landscapes and other "wide" images ....
center ... well, for close stuff.
- do not enable image stabilization.
trust your hands
the camera on X10 is compressing the images way too much so, they become soft.
image stabilization will make them even more soft than that.
What i don't like about the X10 camera is the focus.
I have no idea how is choosing the focus point(s) so, i decided the camera app is crap.
I started to use vignette but is slow as a pig riding a donkey so, i moved on.
Camera360 is working fine.
You have time to wait for the pic to be saved and you know you won't loose a good shot?
Vignette is better. Better quality and best focus from this 3 apps.
Camera 360?
Focus almost as good as vignette.
Quality almost as good as vignette but if you zoom a little you can see the difference.
Speed? A Ferrari vs. Ford Focus (not RS ) if you compare it with Vignette
Hope this helps.
So I've been taking a few pictures on my phone, and I have noticed that the Galaxy S2 is very very inconsistent in taking quality photos. I can have a great clear shot of some mid-ranged photos, but far distanced photos have horrible quality. I understand if you take pictures of something really far, obviously it won't be that good, but when I compared to my friends iPhone 4, the 8MP is barely on par with it. Do any of you know what might be the problem? I've tried using auto focus and manual focus, but it is always blurry.
It seems to be an hardware problem. I find the sgsw camera pretty good, especially the dynamic range. My only concern is with indoor pictures, a bit noisy and cold.
Can you upload and provide some shots samples?
Everything on auto? It might help to know which ROM/mod you are using.
I'm not an expert in mobile digital photography but if I can see your blurry distant shots it might be able to tell if I get better result with my device.
The S2 tends to like low shutter speeds (1/4s - 1/20s) ALL the frigging time.
It will select this slow shutter speed even when it should raise the ISO and get a faster shutter speed.
This is why the S2 often takes blurry photos, because even 1/15 or 1/19sec is not fast enough to take a photo sharply with a 28mm lens (effectively what the S2 is).
The slowest shutter speed the S2 should use is 1/30sec to ensure the photos aren't blurred by *camera* vibration/shake. (But, if the *subject* is moving, like a child, then 1/60s or 1/80s are the minimum that are needed to freeze the subject).
This is why the photos are so often blurry as soon as the light gets slightly low - cloud day, in shade, etc. I don't have a solution sorry!
Proof: check the EXIF data of the blurry photos you take. Most will have a stupidly low ISO (like ISO25, ISO50) and a stupid low shutter speed.
Yes I have noticed that the shutter speeds are quite low...now I'm assured that its not just me
I can take SOME really good photos, but almost every other pictures are very blurry even at a close distance.
Everything is on default, except I have enabled Anti-Shake or something like that, and I am using CheckROM 3.1.1 (KJ3)
The first 2 are taken at a considerably good range, with no zoom or any effects, just a normal shot, but then the outcome was very weird.
The last one was a closer shot, but in a darker area, and that one was a little bit more clear
I don't want to be captain obvious, and I am sure you are a better photographer than me but can you check if the focus mode is set to macro if it is then change to auto focus.
Since this happened to me once i set to macro and forgot and all the photos were blurry.
I just felt that might be the reason.
I am guessing that what you're doing is pressing on the "Capture" button without focusing on the subject yet?
I do find that it's best to press to focus on the area you want to take and then press the main capture button to capture it. It seems like the focus hasn't focused on what you want to take.
It's quite annoying because then that means I have to press in the middle and then press the capture button to take a decent shot. I wish I could just hold down the capture button to focus, then release to shoot.. which works sometimes but not as good as what I said above.
Here you have 2 images, far and close focus. You can see the great quality of the camera. Take a look at the focus settings: better in auto mode if you don't want to manage it in all photos. Maybe you have some problem in the camera hardware... so warranty is the best option here.
There are at least 2 types of camera modules in SGS II.
Check this:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1098834
Mine also had this problem (blury at far objects), the soultion is set the metering to matrix in camera menu.It works for me.
iocar said:
Yes I have noticed that the shutter speeds are quite low...now I'm assured that its not just me
I can take SOME really good photos, but almost every other pictures are very blurry even at a close distance.
Everything is on default, except I have enabled Anti-Shake or something like that, and I am using CheckROM 3.1.1 (KJ3)
The first 2 are taken at a considerably good range, with no zoom or any effects, just a normal shot, but then the outcome was very weird.
The last one was a closer shot, but in a darker area, and that one was a little bit more clear
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you using macro mode to take farer objects ?
thats why it is more clear when you are taking photo of the specimen (3rd one)
or the camera firmware is broken , if not ,it may be the hardware issue
I always touch the place where I want to focus, and that is why I am confused
Yes I was using Macro, but only because it had the best quality...Auto-Focus doesn't really help as it never focus properly, as in when I press the "Capture" button, most of the time it goes to red and doesn't turn green. I am holding the phone still and don't know why
The camera firmware is also up to date
What I don't get is that my old HTC Desire can take photos that are much more crisp than my Galaxy S2
Try resetting the camera settings see if that works,try a third party HDR camera app or Camera 360,if quility is still bad in the 3rd party app then it could be a hardware fault
Sichroteph said:
My only concern is with indoor pictures, a bit noisy and cold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
auto contrast I find helps take better indoors
Cant say I've had any problems with the camera. Love the macro focussing.
It seems obvious that your device doesn't behave like it should and have focus problems. I can have the exact same results with macro mode activated (and not shooting close objects)
I would suggest :
- trying another camera app (like TheiPhoneKiller suggested)
- trying a totally stock rom
- trying a rom like CM7 or MIUI
If you still got totally unfocused shots, you may very well have an faulty device. Try to get a replacement unit if you can.
(And did you try the fix kisstom suggested?)
Well... my shots is certainly much more grainy, since i upgraded to 2.3.5 - even if shot outside in bright sunshine. And many of the pictures is becoming more yellow than before - especially when using the flash-LED, so something has happened when i upgraded... this is one of my big complaints about the new upgrade. My old W800i 2Mpx beats the SGS2 in pure quality of the pictures now (but that was also, and still is, a VERY good camera for a phone)...
When comparing the newest pictures to some of the old pictures i have shot in the past, it's clear to me that i have a loss of quality since upgrading. How do i check manually, if there's a new camera-software version available - as i can't seem to find any in the Samsung apps, even if i have read somewhere that there's a newer one, comparing to my version of the camera-software???
But a least it's still not as crappy as my old HTC's camera - THAT was lousy...
Frankly speaking, 'Camera quality is bad' makes no sense. If you've said it's bad than this or that then I'd take it. Have used all the SE phones as I loved their image quality and I'll say after playing with the Satio, C905 I don't think this one would beat them. We are talking about a small image sensor here. So the main job is how good the post image processing is, some part still depends on the lens though.
The thing is I didn't buy this one for camera, believe me or not, after purchase, that is almost six months now, I've shot barely 10 pics with it. For normal usage and as a professional can't go without 350D, and for short tours and holidays I still shoot with my C905 , but not GSII.
But still this Camera is capable of taking some great pics, posting some of them here, after seeing them you certainly can't say Camera quality is bad.
The very bests I've found,
-> ithehappy
Well - i used to have that image quality too, but it has become somewhat impossible to shot such good pictures, since upgrading... i suspect that it's because my camera firmware still is TBEC28 (but of course not sure of it)
iocar said:
I always touch the place where I want to focus, and that is why I am confused
Yes I was using Macro, but only because it had the best quality...Auto-Focus doesn't really help as it never focus properly, as in when I press the "Capture" button, most of the time it goes to red and doesn't turn green. I am holding the phone still and don't know why
The camera firmware is also up to date
What I don't get is that my old HTC Desire can take photos that are much more crisp than my Galaxy S2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Confused!!! Are you saying that you always have macro focus on?
If so then turn it off. My cousin complained about the exact same thing, blurry and red box when trying to focus. Went through his settings, turned macro off and everything was good again.
Also auto focus will not work correctly if macro is on, unless your taking really close range pics, which is what macro focus is for.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
well i am on 2.3.5 Images are really Perfect for me am seriously impressed the Quality iam on kI8 here is one example
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/20111118205552.jpg
iocar said:
Yes I was using Macro, but only because it had the best quality
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly why your pictures are blurry at a distance.
Macro focus is for close-up pictures, use auto focus for longer distances
Hi there,
As everyone knows, default camera app of sony sucks. I have tried a lot of alternative applications. For me the best results is from Snap Camera with settings 20mpx, camera api2, jpeg quality Best, opengl2, auto scene auto whitebalance, auto flash. These settings allows me to take much sharper images tested on my small facial hair. BUT! Camera is very overheating, after few minutes (5-6 shots) i have started sony camera and it alerted that camera is too hot, so it shuts down.
Snap camera allows HDR in 20mpx also any scene, its not limited as sony-s camera
Also snap camera produced the best images on my old low quality mtk based phone. So i recommend it, its paid but as far i know it have trial version.
I will be happy if someone will tell how is satisfied with this app.
PS.: FV-5 is worse, for my eyes.
in the play store info, there is setting for ISO. but why is there non when i check in setting...?
ive taken some kick ass photos in good light/ low light / bad light with the stock app. IDK what everyone is on about. but to each their own =)
`Ghost` said:
ive taken some kick ass photos in good light/ low light / bad light with the stock app. IDK what everyone is on about. but to each their own =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Auto mode or Manual?
Both.
Basically, when you unlock your boot loader, the great photo quality will be gone. If you have backed up your "TRIMM area" before unlocking it (where the DRM keys are stored), then you'll be able to get it back, by re-locking the BL, but this means you'll lose your ability to use costom ROMs, only modified stock ROMs are possible after that.
The reason for this is that Sony uses some pretty amazing software magic to get great pictures in low light (noise reduction algorithms) which aren't meant to be accessible for others to reverse engineer, so they lock them away with the DRM keys. So with a locked boot loader, the camera makes awesome pictures even in low light, with an unlocked BL, meh... (not so much any more)
Of course, these algorithms are only available to the Sony default camera app for the same reasons...
Have you tried this
It will let you have scene's and HDR in 20mp, also it has more ISO options.
I've used FV-5 from the start and imo it's a lot better for me then the stock app. I can't work with the stock app that has limited control
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app
stock camera is the only one...'cause of manual iso... fv-5 has good auto but you can't force iso 100, 200 and so on
Recently I have the Z3 Compact therefore not yet tried everything, but the camera does not seem anywhere near what they sold me in reviews. The original camera seems poor choices, the automatic mode leaves much to be desired, especially in low light because when you have a lighthouse in front can not interpret well and properly handle white balance and contrast.
I was testing the Open Camera app and gives me better results than stock. The only thing I use it now for the stock camera is for timeshift and sometimes for panoramic shots.
I have almost forgot about this post, thanks for cleaning my bookmarks.
Thanks for everyone’s reply, I have figured out that another phones also uses that sensor and they make better pics, so probably problem is with sony's software developers who are doing a weak job. I am very addicted to zooming pictures and when I compare zoomed 5mpx downscale shot of lumia 1020 and 8 or 20mpx shot of Z3C, then shot of lumia is sharp and clear, full of details.... the shot of sony is like blurred and without details. So i think that they algorithm is wrong somewhere or they are compressing raw to too low quality and when jpeg is created then its final quality will be even worse regardless of 97% or 100% jpeg quality. Need to note that nokia's sensor is three times bigger in its physical size that captures the light.
But the video quality is epic i have never seen so good video quality from phone.
Currently i am waiting for availability of 5.1.1 in slovakia
http://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_6s_galaxy_s6_xperia_z5-review-1329p2.php
Xperia Z5 took top honors, and the ranking look more like the Dxomark ranking
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
schecter7 said:
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! After looking at your pics, I also went back to Tim's 20 MP vs. 8 MP comparison pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22126137922/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21515893794/in/photostream/
If you look at the EXIF info, they both used the same shutter speed, but the 8 MP used a higher ISO. Better exposure and less noise, so 8 MP mode is better for low light, as Tim has shown. Tim also waited for the tripod symbol for his 20 MP night shots.
So my question is this: Does the tripod symbol show up for non-night scenes? Like in moderate to bright light? It seems to me the Z5 has two AF modes - fast vs. slow AF. Fast AF is super fast, but only good for capturing a specific subject (and tends to blur the background). Slow AF does full scene analysis and takes longer. It would explain why people are getting such wildly varying results with the Z5.
Anyone wanna test and see? Please?
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
schecter7 said:
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
joe_dude said:
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
schecter7 said:
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
joe_dude said:
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
schecter7 said:
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think the ZU was the best phone of all time (when it came out). On light use, I've gotten 4 to 5 days out of it on a single charge. And Kitkat 4.4 and Lollipop 5.1.1 have been rock solid. If there were a Z5 Ultra (or Z6 Ultra), I'd get it in a heartbeat.
Anyway, I should be able to do some testing with the Z5 and a G4 shortly (yea!), but I don't have a lot of free time, so I'm gonna try to grab a bunch of shots and analyze them later. Oh well, RL comes first.
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
chesterr said:
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, a fully unlocked camera would be really cool. Well, for us geeks anyway. I think Sony's simplified manual modes are still not simple enough for the average consumer. But that's a problem with the average consumer, not the phone. xD
As for low light performance, let's see how it does in comparisons using the default 8 MP SA. Even if the tests don't adjust for its 24mm lens, I think it'll do a lot better than in 23 MP mode.
If things go well I might have my Z5 next week.
And do some proper testing with Z5 and Z2 which I know really well since I have it for over 1,5 years.
I should do a proper comparison. All the questions will be answered.
joe_dude said:
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
TheEndHK said:
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
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There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
EQ2000 said:
There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
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I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
TheEndHK said:
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
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Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
In any case, the Z5's flash is rated better by DXOMark than the S6. So it was obvious that the GSMArena's flowers flash test had some kind of problem. I mean just look at the pic - the Z5's pic was mostly of the night sky, while the S6 and 6S were mainly on the flowers. Because they didn't consider the FOV and framed the shot incorrectly, the Z5 detected it as a night scenery pic with flash fill, not a flash pic of flowers. There are examples from other reviews that show the Z5's flash working well and as expected.
Reviewers are expected to understand and be knowledgeable about the product they are reviewing. Would you ever buy a car magazine where the reviewers don't know what kind of engine is in the car, or how much gas it uses? Reviews that give false, misleading and/or incomplete information are bad for everyone.
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EQ2000 said:
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
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The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
joe_dude said:
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
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Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
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I'm going to buy Z5c today(not sure, but most probably, if I could find a cheaper one for sales) and let me see how well the camera. Actually, I think it is worthless to discuss the camera before any big updates.
EQ2000 said:
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
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No, I'm still playing with SA. As much as I want to fiddle with the camera, I'm gonna have to cut the experimenting short to get back to other RL things. Sigh. But thanks for the suggestion... I'll keep in mind!
FYI, I did more analysis on the IFA photo you had posted. Believe it or not, I think the Z5 was correct with the exposure. Look closely at the pics - in the other two pics, the model was over-exposed. In the Z5 pic, she had a nicely balanced colour and brightness. The other phones did not do face detection, so measured the exposure based on the entire frame, and not on the model. Since the pic was primarily of the model, the Z5 took the picture as it had been intended.
This is part of the problem - we assume if the Z5's pic looks different, it is "incorrect". I'm starting to understand SA tries to do a lot, although sometimes it will guess incorrectly. But I think Sony needs to tweak SA to work better/more consistently.
Had a little bit of free-time so decided to do a simple test. What differences does the different camera modes provide in Low-Light?
Here is the album for the pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/iFc9Keoh9um1beks5
All shots were handheld, 8MP 16:9, landscape orientation. Unfortunately, I don't really have a DSLR sample for comparison but you can take my word that there wasn't much light (among the shots, SA and Handheld Twilight are closest to how dark the scene actually was but in reality, it was still a bit darker). On to the analysis:
Superior Auto - Night-Scene detected, NO tripod icon Even though it selected Night-Scene, it still seemed to select a rather high-ISO in this case, making it quite useless. How do you get the Tripod icon to appear when handheld? Do you have any tips for that or how long I have to wait for it to appear?
Manual Mode (ISO Auto, Metering Multi, Single Auto-Focus) - based on many observations, ISO in Manual mode generally is 1/2 of the ISO that is selected for Superior Auto. Most of the time I shoot stuff in this setting. Curiously, did anybody notice that the "Image Stabilizer" option disappeared?
Night Portrait - based on observations, seems to select a balance of the lowest ISO it could get with the slowest shutter-speed it can have to have a balanced exposure of the scene WITHOUT motion blur. This in contrast to the Night Scene mode.
Night Scene - based on observations, seems to prioritize getting the lowest ISO it can and slowest shutter-speed to get the best exposure BUT the main difference with Night Portrait is it does not care about motion blur! And yes, the shutter speed it selected was almost 1 sec but I have to be honest, it really took me quite a few tries to get that clear a shot without motion blur. You might also notice some wonky focus on the right-side.
Handheld Twilight - not really sure what this does but to me seems to perform like HDR? Takes a couple of pics then stitches them together to preserve detail? If you compare to the Superior Auto shot, it seems to have more detail in comparison (e.g. the frame with etched words).
Is there a best scene for shooting? I think it would depend on what you want to prioritize. For me, I would probably leave it in Manual / Night Portrait for general shooting and put it in Night-Scene mode for landscape shots. Lack of OIS is sad but not a deal-breaker for me, just have to be more patient and practice having steady hands to get that good shot.
Hope this have helped you and please feel free to add any information as needed!
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
Timaustin2000 said:
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
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Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
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I wish I could tell you, lol. Tuck your elbows in against your ribs - that helps. If you can, lean your elbows on a arm rest or lean against a wall. You just need to be as steady as possible but it's tricky to do.
One tip; half pressing the camera key re-sets Superior Auto when released. If you do this a few times, it means that the mode is more active in looking for changes in exposure and behaviour and may help it come up quicker.
Once it does come up, half press and hold it and it should lock the mode so that you can find your focal point and take the shot.
Hope this helps.
I would add from myself the best results especially in detail are available throght Maual Mode 8mpx.
The autofocus is fast, low manual ISO and the usage of white balance gives really detailed pics even in low light.
It's also good to use tap-to-focus and consciously use light metering.
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bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
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Tripod appears actually only when the phone is set on a completely stable surface/stand.
Otherwise the phone detects any movement. Which is logical.
Thanks both for the helpful tips! Can't wait to try out and do my best to practice my 'tripod mode' Btw, what metering do you leave your phone at?
I've found to get tripod to appear reliably, shoot either while sitting or leaning/braced on something. I found it was the body swaying, and not the hands, that was causing most of the movement for me. If the tripod icon does not at first appear, take an initial shot in SA (without tripod icon), and it should then appear for the next shot.
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Wow didn't know that before. Might be interesting to have a play around with those settings when I get the chance!
EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Interesting,.. but I've never once managed to get it to produce usable results.
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
Barthlon said:
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
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I am totally for Manual 8mpx.
Just because in real low light it's more crisp than 23mpx.
Other than that Manual 23mpx is great.
I can bring up the tripod quite consistently after the first shot (it keeps showing all those running, walking icons first time due to almost unavoidable initial motions).. Thanks to some helpful tips here, I'll have to try to get it up before the first shot.
One off-topic tip that could be pretty convenient. I'm pretty sure most of the Xperia shooters already know this. I leave the camera in my fav. manual mode (basically favorite ISO/res. & everything else set to auto or you could just pick a scene mode). I launch the camera using the awesome shutter button to get to auto mode directly. I tap the icon to launch the camera only when I need to get directly to my favorite manual 'preset'.
If we lock the iso as 200 in manual mode, I guess it is like a tripod mode, because the camera will adjust the shutter speed to match the iso , and it takes good pics in most circumstances.