Database Users

Kernel Source Code Discussion

Honor 7 (PLK-L01) Kernel Source Code Discussion​
Hello, honorable Honor 7 users , I hope you all are using this device to the fullest, now I'm starting this thread to discuss about the kernel source code for our beloved device. There are a lot of benefits from it.
1. We can create a master tree for our device.
2. After creating the tree we can create various branches of different custom ROMs, so that we can compile them from it.
3. We can add different CPU Govereners to our device to unleash its better performance, or better stability.
4. ETC. ETC.
There are still more benefits from the kernel source code.

Having The Honor 7 Kernel Source Codes Is Extremely Important For Development
Thank you for posting about that.
Indeed having the Android kernel source codes of (Huawei Honor 7 - PLK-L01) will help a lot in the development and porting process.
I am going to contact Huawei support team today to see when they are willing to share the source codes.
For anyone who is interested in this, please reply to this post and try to contact them too pointing your interest in having them.
This would be the most important step towards having custom ROMs on this amazing device.
Special thanks for "DigiGoon" to bring that up. :good:

Source Code
Yes, absolutely right @kenshiwara we can create custom ROMs and can tweak them to make this device even more better.
So guys, if more and more people will demand for the source code from Huawei then more closer we will get to have a custom ROM out of it, and I think that this device will gain much popularity after the company releases it worldwide, so we will get more and more developers working on it on different ROMs, but for that we need kernel source, so please contact Huawei for the same it's for our good only.

its funny,
I sent a email to them, on Monday asking the same thing (no reply thought) and was going to start a post about it , guess i was beaten to it
I really like this device, and would be a shame if not customs roms are available
phoenix
edit:
created a petition online, please sign it and add it to the 1st post:
htt p://ww w.ipetitions.com/petition/honor-7-source-code
(I cant post link outside XDA, delete the space)
ps: if anyone has any other ideas for the description, just tell me

themegaphoenix said:
its funny,
I sent a email to them, on Monday asking the same thing (no reply thought) and was going to start a post about it , guess i was beaten to it
I really like this device, and would be a shame if not customs roms are available
phoenix
edit:
created a petition online, please sign it and add it to the 1st post:
htt p://ww w.ipetitions.com/petition/honor-7-source-code
(I cant post link outside XDA, delete the space)
ps: if anyone has any other ideas for the description, just tell me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A petition will make zero difference. Honor UK and EU staff are well aware that they need to provide GPL code but they have to wait for the software team in China to provide the files. No point hassling them on social media etc as it won't make the code magically appear.
And even if we had kernel source it does not mean that custom ROMs will appear!
If you expected to be able to run custom ROMs then I'm sorry but you bought the wrong device.

flibblesan said:
A petition will make zero difference. Honor UK and EU staff are well aware that they need to provide GPL code but they have to wait for the software team in China to provide the files. No point hassling them on social media etc as it won't make the code magically appear.
And even if we had kernel source it does not mean that custom ROMs will appear!
If you expected to be able to run custom ROMs then I'm sorry but you bought the wrong device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having the source can mean that developers can make custom ROMs and flash it through twrp. I get your point that there is a lack of developers for this device, but I would like to mess around with the source, and see if I can create a ROM (only ported mtk ROMs in the past and modify some files in the past, which would require some learning)
And I didn't buy this device for custom ROMs, but it would be nice to have some

flibblesan said:
A petition will make zero difference. Honor UK and EU staff are well aware that they need to provide GPL code but they have to wait for the software team in China to provide the files. No point hassling them on social media etc as it won't make the code magically appear.
And even if we had kernel source it does not mean that custom ROMs will appear!
If you expected to be able to run custom ROMs then I'm sorry but you bought the wrong device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As, I said earlier, with kernel source we can create tree, and out of the master tree we can create branches for various custom ROMs, and well in past I have made a ROM without kernel source, and made a tree for my other device(XOLO Play T1000), and successfully flashed via TWRP, it was having problems with network, wifi, so didn't made it to xda so, I think after having the source code we can create something

themegaphoenix said:
its funny,
I sent a email to them, on Monday asking the same thing (no reply thought) and was going to start a post about it , guess i was beaten to it
I really like this device, and would be a shame if not customs roms are available
phoenix
created a petition online, please sign it and add it to the 1st post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for supporting this thread and creating a petition as well. I have signed your newly created petition a moment ago.
As we said before, having the Android kernel source codes will massively help in the porting and development process.
It is within the development cycles of Huawei to release the source codes at a certain stage. Let's hope though, that they can release them soon.

It's annoying me that Huawei are still unable to respect the GPL by releasing kernel source on time whenever there has been a firmware update. It's even more annoying for my friends that work for Huawei in the UK who are pretty passionate about the devices and eager to help the community out but are sadly at the mercy of the Chinese office that are reluctant to provide any source. I really don't understand why they are being like this, since they have recently been supportive of Cyanogenmon on some devices as well as the Nexus 6P.
What possible reason could Huawei have for witholding the code for the Honor 7? I'm starting to wonder if Huawei have incorporated code into the kernel that isn't compatible with the GPL or is completely closed source.

flibblesan said:
It's annoying me that Huawei are still unable to respect the GPL by releasing kernel source on time whenever there has been a firmware update. It's even more annoying for my friends that work for Huawei in the UK who are pretty passionate about the devices and eager to help the community out but are sadly at the mercy of the Chinese office that are reluctant to provide any source. I really don't understand why they are being like this, since they have recently been supportive of Cyanogenmon on some devices as well as the Nexus 6P.
What possible reason could Huawei have for witholding the code for the Honor 7? I'm starting to wonder if Huawei have incorporated code into the kernel that isn't compatible with the GPL or is completely closed source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even then, they should have made an statement about it, but what would stop them to lie about it?
They could also broke some patents with the phone, so they are trying to cover it up by not releasing the code

flibblesan said:
What possible reason could Huawei have for witholding the code for the Honor 7? I'm starting to wonder if Huawei have incorporated code into the kernel that isn't compatible with the GPL or is completely closed source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whole AOSP is under GPL so i think they should release it

I signed it too. Let us home Huawei will release the source code, but like flibblesan said, I have my doubts about a quick release

AmitJordy said:
I signed it too. Let us home Huawei will release the source code, but like flibblesan said, I have my doubts about a quick release
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, they replied to my tweet, and I think it will be out soon (**EXCITED)
You can check it HERE

flibblesan said:
It's annoying me that Huawei are still unable to respect the GPL by releasing kernel source on time whenever there has been a firmware update. It's even more annoying for my friends that work for Huawei in the UK who are pretty passionate about the devices and eager to help the community out but are sadly at the mercy of the Chinese office that are reluctant to provide any source. I really don't understand why they are being like this, since they have recently been supportive of Cyanogenmon on some devices as well as the Nexus 6P.
What possible reason could Huawei have for witholding the code for the Honor 7? I'm starting to wonder if Huawei have incorporated code into the kernel that isn't compatible with the GPL or is completely closed source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comment and for your supporting this topic.
As they had released the source codes for Honor 6, there is no reason for them to not share the codes of Honor 7. As @DigiGoon have stated, they replied to his tweet already and never denied the idea or his request.
It would be nice if anyone who is interested in having the source codes and supporting the developers who are willing to work on porting ROMs for this device to comment on that tweet, share it and like it. :laugh:

kenshiwara said:
Thank you for your comment and for your supporting this topic.
As they had released the source codes for Honor 6, there is no reason for them to not share the codes of Honor 7. As @DigiGoon have stated, they replied to his tweet already and never denied the idea or his request.
It would be nice if anyone who is interested in having the source codes and supporting the developers who are willing to work on porting ROMs for this device to comment on that tweet, share it and like it. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, throw it everywhere so that more users will know about it, and new developers emerges out of somewhere, hopefully we will get the source code soon

sgned the petition...has huawei released source code for any other of their phones?
seen the answer to my question...doh!!

sheridan2000 said:
sgned the petition...has huawei released source code for any other of their phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for doing that! :good:
Yes, Huawei supports the open source community. They had released most of their previous Android kernel source codes including Honor 6 in the past.
Hopefully it is just a matter of time before they release the codes of honor 7. We are very excited to start working on a ROM.

Signed from by side too but I don't have any hope of any release...

beber75 said:
Signed from by side too but I don't have any hope of any release...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for your support! As they released the source codes of the previous model, there is no logical reason for them not to release them for this one.
They do respect the open source community and hopefully they will release soon.
Have faith and stay optimistic about it

I've bought this phone today, i really hope Huawei provide source code for Custom ROM.
And I've already signed the petition
Edit : Huawei doesn't provide any CPU source code, just EMUI source code...

honor 5X kernel source is released

Honor supports Android developers. We provide community devs with devices, we provide bootloader unlock codes, and we release kernel source. Please let us know what other resources honor can provide and I'll do my best to help out.
Download honor 5X kernel source: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/search/index.htm?keywords=opensource

wimbet said:
Honor supports Android developers. We provide community devs with devices, we provide bootloader unlock codes, and we release kernel source. Please let us know what other resources honor can provide and I'll do my best to help out.
Download honor 5X kernel source: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/search/index.htm?keywords=opensource
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How would we request the unlock bootloader code? Just pre-order mine on Newegg

The EMUI site has a bootloader unlock tool.
http://emui.huawei.com/en/plugin.php?id=hwdownload

wimbet said:
Honor supports Android developers. We provide community devs with devices, we provide bootloader unlock codes, and we release kernel source. Please let us know what other resources honor can provide and I'll do my best to help out.
Download honor 5X kernel source: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/search/index.htm?keywords=opensource
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, this is music to my ears and what I've always wanted to hear from an oem.
Been eyeing the honor 5x, but its a little bigger than I care for. Might have to give it a go anyway, if nothing else to support a company so friendly to the dev community.

i see beans .... hmmm...

wimbet said:
Honor supports Android developers. We provide community devs with devices, we provide bootloader unlock codes, and we release kernel source. Please let us know what other resources honor can provide and I'll do my best to help out.
Download honor 5X kernel source: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/search/index.htm?keywords=opensource
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may purchase the Honor 5X but only if I can get root. Will this be available?

wimbet said:
Honor supports Android developers. We provide community devs with devices, we provide bootloader unlock codes, and we release kernel source. Please let us know what other resources honor can provide and I'll do my best to help out.
Download honor 5X kernel source: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/search/index.htm?keywords=opensource
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your support to the consumers and developers!! Does the kernel source have the needed files to make the fingerprint scanner work on a custom rom? I assume the fingerprint scanner files have to be open source as well?

cyrusalmighty said:
Thank you for your support to the consumers and developers!! Does the kernel source have the needed files to make the fingerprint scanner work on a custom rom? I assume the fingerprint scanner files have to be open source as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are there, we will just need to edit the aosp fingerprint scanner hal it should not be hard because we share the same sensor as a bunch of other devices.

I am stoked for this device. I am a bit cheap, so it is right in my ballpark. I am really hoping this gives the talented developers around here enough to help get vanilla android or CM on this device. Most of the reviews point to the main frustration as the software, and how it bogs up the OS performance.

Linux kernel source request for Huawei Y5 (Y560-L01)
@wimbet
How can I acquire a copy of Linux kernel source that matches the binary kernel shipped with Huawei Y5 (Y560-L01 - firmware version V100R001C577B040)? Linux kernel source Huawei have released for this device (http://download-c.huawei.com/downlo...oadId=62203&version=205085&siteCode=worldwide) is utterly incomplete. It doesn't even compile and there's no chance that it would ever work on an actual device.
It is missing all the Makefile/Kconfig entries for Huawei modifications. It's missing FT5x36 touchscreen driver. It's missing Huawei USB driver modifications. ap3426 sensor driver doesn't compile. It's missing msm8909-y560-byd-4v35-2000mah.dtsi and msm8909-y560-scud-4v35-2000mah.dtsi to compile the dt.img. This is just to name few. If you need more information, don't hesitate ask for further details.
May I kindly remind you that Linux kernel is released under GPLv2 licence and Huawei is legally obligated to provide the source code.

KonstaT said:
@wimbet
How can I acquire a copy of Linux kernel source that matches the binary kernel shipped with Huawei Y5 (Y560-L01 - firmware version V100R001C577B040)? Linux kernel source Huawei have released for this device (http://download-c.huawei.com/downlo...oadId=62203&version=205085&siteCode=worldwide) is utterly incomplete. It doesn't even compile and there's no chance that it would ever work on an actual device.
It is missing all the Makefile/Kconfig entries for Huawei modifications. It's missing FT5x36 touchscreen driver. It's missing Huawei USB driver modifications. ap3426 sensor driver doesn't compile. It's missing msm8909-y560-byd-4v35-2000mah.dtsi and msm8909-y560-scud-4v35-2000mah.dtsi to compile the dt.img. This is just to name few. If you need more information, don't hesitate ask for further details.
May I kindly remind you that Linux kernel is released under GPLv2 licence and Huawei is legally obligated to provide the source code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take it elsewhere this is the Honor 5X forums and @wimbet is specifically support for the Honor line up in the US.

deadman96385 said:
Take it elsewhere this is the Honor 5X forums and @wimbet is specifically support for the Honor line up in the US.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, just tell me where. I'd be happy to take this directly to Huawei if someone there agreed to talk to me. I've sent countless emails to [email protected] and [email protected]. I've sent email though http://consumer.huawei.com/en/contact-us/index.htm?tag=email. I've received exactly zero responses! Huawei clearly doesn't care about GPLv2 compliance.
@wimbet here says he/she is a "Huawei and honor Rep" and you might want to re-read the OP, too.

wimbet said:
Honor supports Android developers. We provide community devs with devices, we provide bootloader unlock codes, and we release kernel source. Please let us know what other resources honor can provide and I'll do my best to help out.
Download honor 5X kernel source: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/search/index.htm?keywords=opensource
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KonstaT said:
Sure, just tell me where. I've sent countless emails to [email protected] and [email protected]. I've sent email though http://consumer.huawei.com/en/contact-us/index.htm?tag=email. I've received exactly zero responses! Huawei clearly doesn't care about GPLv2 compliance.
@wimbet here says he/she is a "Huawei and honor Rep" and you might want to re-read the OP, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP nowhere mentions the Y5 and it is not a honor device so it does not belong in a honor forum. Like i said before @wimbet does not support non-honor devices. So he would be no help to you.

deadman96385 said:
The OP nowhere mentions the Y5 and it is not a honor device so it does not belong in a honor forum. Like i said before @wimbet does not support non-honor devices. So he would be no help to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure he's capable of speaking for himself being the "Huawei and honor Rep" and all...

KonstaT said:
@wimbet
How can I acquire a copy of Linux kernel source that matches the binary kernel shipped with Huawei Y5 (Y560-L01 - firmware version V100R001C577B040)? Linux kernel source Huawei have released for this device (http://download-c.huawei.com/downlo...oadId=62203&version=205085&siteCode=worldwide) is utterly incomplete. It doesn't even compile and there's no chance that it would ever work on an actual device.
It is missing all the Makefile/Kconfig entries for Huawei modifications. It's missing FT5x36 touchscreen driver. It's missing Huawei USB driver modifications. ap3426 sensor driver doesn't compile. It's missing msm8909-y560-byd-4v35-2000mah.dtsi and msm8909-y560-scud-4v35-2000mah.dtsi to compile the dt.img. This is just to name few. If you need more information, don't hesitate ask for further details.
May I kindly remind you that Linux kernel is released under GPLv2 licence and Huawei is legally obligated to provide the source code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi KonstaT, I work for Huawei Device USA. The Y5 is not a device I was involved in, but I'll be happy to forward your request to someone that can help. Is there another forum you can point me towards where we can continue this discussion?

wimbet said:
Hi KonstaT, I work for Huawei Device USA. The Y5 is not a device I was involved in, but I'll be happy to forward your request to someone that can help. Is there another forum you can point me towards where we can continue this discussion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much. I've been having real trouble getting the message through.
Here's a thread for the CyanogenMod 12.1 build I did for Y5. I'm more active on that forum but you can PM here as well. Lack of proper kernel source is currently holding down any other projects I had planned for this device (Firefox OS, Sailfish OS).

Nice !
Nice !
hehehe

@wimbet nice to see a rep on the battlefield! Most reps would rather watch from above. Would love to have an Honor 5x!

@ wimbet Do you know if Honor plans to give this device 2 Years Of Android Updates? I read the Honor 5x will get Marshmallow, but most android devices are supported for 2 years from release. Do you know if it will be updated the same?

I don't comment much on here anymore but I just bought this as a back up phone, but...... If we can get a stock experience on this phone then it may just be my daily driver.
I'm very impressed with @wimbet and his presence here, what a great step in the right direction for Huawei

Huawei will provide Kernel Source Code, Android Software Source Code, ... ON REQUEST

I don't whether the source will enable the developers to build something exciting for our devices but still I thought it would be nice if I informed you all. But I have my hopes up and well here it goes:
ORIGINAL MESSAGE BY HUWAEI: (The download link for the notice is at the bottom of this post. It is a 92 page document)
Written Offer
This product contains software whose rights holders license it on the terms of the GNU General Public License, version 2 (GPLv2) and/or other open source software licenses. We will provide you and any third party with the source code of the software licensed under an open source software license if you send us a written request by mail or email to the following addresses:
[email protected]
detailing the name of the product and the firmware version for which you need the source code and indicating how we can contact you.
THIS OFFER IS VALID FOR THREE YEARS FROM THE MOMENT WE DISTRIBUTED THE PRODUCT AND VALID FOR AS LONG AS WE OFFER SPARE PARTS OR CUSTOMER SUPPORT FOR THAT PRODUCT MODEL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Included Software (with their full source code):
Iptables
Iproute2
Busybox
netfilter
linux kernel network stack
Linux Kernel 3.10.86 (Don't know if it's pure Kernel or will be for the requested device)
Asterik 1.2.6
Andriod 5.0.2 r1
Android 4.4.2 r1
Android 6.0.0 r1
... and other stuff ...
I think the Kernel will be for the firmware you requested (there is no point in gving a blank Linux Kernel. That's available readily on Internet).
Also I take absolutely no liability if the provided source codes are not relative to our product.
The information I provided is best to my understanding of the notice and I won't be liable if it hurts any copyright holder's interests or if the information is not accurate.
Download Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0LG0AQ4V9FpNWxFWWJTN3RjWVU/view?usp=sharing

Read the GPL carefully and came to know if the software includes GPL software, it is obligatory for the developer to release full source code of the modified GPL software (if I am wrong correct me).
Hopes high...:angel:

Huawei simply doesn't care enough as to release the sources, even though it should comply with GPL, in practice there's no one who would prosecute those violating the license.

@codeworkx good news?

micechal said:
Huawei simply doesn't care enough as to release the sources, even though it should comply with GPL, in practice there's no one who would prosecute those violating the license.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are three ways under which the developer can release source code under GPL:
They can publish the source code on the website and make it available for download using a web link.
They can bundle the original software with the source code.
They could make source code available on request. (This is what Huawei is doing) But there is one small thing to notice here. The developer may charge some money (a small amount) for postal or sending the code to the requester (for this reason only). I am not sure here but OFFICIAL SOURCES FROM HUAWEI STATE THAT THEY'LL CHARGE $5-$10 FOR POSTAGE OR FOR PACKAGING.
And that notice is officially released by Huawei!
I have already sent a request via EMAIL to Huawei. Waiting patiently for a response.
Furthermore, (please correct me if I am wrong) China is completely different than US and UK. There is only one barrier between Huawei and UK US, that's the laws. Huawei are starting their operations in territories such as US and UK and they should be aware that laws are completely different. GPL wasn't even applicable in China (no one give a s*** to it). But I believe US and UK are different.

Steve Giordano said:
@codeworkx good news?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huawei is dead for me. Sorry.

codeworkx said:
Huawei is dead for me. Sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@codeworkx Everybody has to move on! I appreciate the endless effort you put into CM 11 for Honor 6. Thanks for the hope you gave to us folks!

I sent an email to Huawei and was seriously shocked by their stupendous stupid reply.
Dear User,
Huawei Customer Service is pleased to be at your service.
Thank you for your feedback. But as the latest general version has only been upgraded to Android 5.0, so we only have open source code for this version on our website. If you need it for other versions, please wait patiently for its release.
Once again thank you for contacting Huawei device.
Best Regards,
Huawei Device Customer Care Team (3207)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't expected this from Huawei. We have Android 6.0 here! I have sent them another email containing substantial evidence of Android 6.0 and what open source software their distribution contains including a copy of the GPL v2 license as I was told by the GPL Violations member. I don't expect a good reply from Huawei and WILL NEVER BUY THEIR DEVICES.
However, I will report a GPL Violation (even if it might not do anything) but at least I'll contribute to the open source ecosystem and that's the only thing and the best thing I could do.

Told ya. Anyways, Marshmallow roms weren't *released* yet, these are all developer builds, so that's probably the reasoning behind their response.

I think it would be much more productive to ask them for 5.0 source link for the time being, if they say themselves that they are obligated to release it. Come on guys, if they release 6.0 kernel source only after they release the update, I'm totally fine with it.
Besides... that was a closed beta test, and the builds around the forums are basically leaked. So if anyone has any rights to get the source code, it's the people that downloaded the beta in the official way.

sado1 said:
I think it would be much more productive to ask them for 5.0 source link for the time being, if they say themselves that they are obligated to release it. Come on guys, if they release 6.0 kernel source only after they release the update, I'm totally fine with it.
Besides... that was a closed beta test, and the builds around the forums are basically leaked. So if anyone has any rights to get the source code, it's the people that downloaded the beta in the official way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically you're right. I asked them for Android 5.0 sources but instead they gave me 4.4.2 Kernel sources. The tar file was only named for Android 5.0 but in actual it contained the sources for 4.4.2.
Problem is, Huawei has so many websites and are region based. Every regional website has different sources i.e. CN version has Mate 8 Android 6.0 sources whereas EN region doesn't have them. I am searching the website deeply as I was instructed by SFC member (share copyrights in GPL Linux Kernel) to confirm if the sources are actually not uploaded on website.

Thanks for that i'll message some of the Huawei Websites (wtf how many do they have lol)
Currently contacting huawei.cn

GIVE
GIVE CM 12 or 13
GIVE PLS GIV E GIVE GIVE
please
This phone want good rom

It's a **** from Huawei.. There is android N hitting the market and these bunch of losers can't release android L sources.. **ck Huawei.. Whatsoever good device Huawei will make but now it's dead for me..

I need all leeco users

Guys leeco is not going to release the working kernel source code. So we should spam every post on leeco India Facebook , Twitter , Instagram pages to release kernel source code. Let's show them what users can do. We can make Nd also destroy a brand!

it is already released
Dhawan123 said:
Guys leeco is not going to release the working kernel source code. So we should spam every post on leeco India Facebook , Twitter , Instagram pages to release kernel source code. Let's show them what users can do. We can make Nd also destroy a brand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
visit opensource.le.com

Share with us, ZTE A2017GV1.3.0B01 (Official Oreo beta G)

Mod Edit: we're NOT going to encourage Xda members to violate their NDAs, and we're certainly not going to allow it to be posted in Xda forums. If you wanted a preview, you should have joined beta testing.
Thread Closed
Can anyone share with us,
ZTE A2017GV1.3.0B01
(Fully functional, official Oreo beta G)
P.S.
Really, please someone who owns it, to share it with us.

I believe when you participated in the Oreo beta test, you have to sign something to NOT TO LEAK the rom before ZTE permits it (someone corrects me if I am wrong). So no, nobody will share with you, because they would have done it if they had the chance.