Pretty much since the first day I've used the Pixel I've felt that the sched governor is not efficient despite claims to the contrary by pretty much everyone who has replied to my posts including devs. All the custom Roms I've tried for the Pixel XL use sched and all the custom kernels I've tried use it as well. Nobody has ever responded with any sort of explanation of how sched can be efficient when it makes both the Pixel battery and cpu temp rise so much almost the instant you pick up the phone.
An XDA article posted about EAS being ported to an old phone included a link explaining what EAS does. But if you read the second post the writer who appears to be a dev comes to the conclusion that sched is not actually a particularly efficient governor:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/u11/development/kernel-kirisakura-eas-0-7-energy-aware-t3647471
So I'm still wondering why most people in these threads continue to insist that sched is so wonderful and efficient that it can't be improved on and why devs for the most part don't seem to be trying to offer an alternative to it.
jhs39 said:
Pretty much since the first day I've used the Pixel I've felt that the sched governor is not efficient despite claims to the contrary by pretty much everyone who has replied to my posts including devs. All the custom Roms I've tried for the Pixel XL use sched and all the custom kernels I've tried use it as well. Nobody has ever responded with any sort of explanation of how sched can be efficient when it makes both the Pixel battery and cpu temp rise so much almost the instant you pick up the phone.
An XDA article posted about EAS being ported to an old phone included a link explaining what EAS does. But if you read the second post the writer who appears to be a dev comes to the conclusion that sched is not actually a particularly efficient governor:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/u11/development/kernel-kirisakura-eas-0-7-energy-aware-t3647471
So I'm still wondering why most people in these threads continue to insist that sched is so wonderful and efficient that it can't be improved on and why devs for the most part don't seem to be trying to offer an alternative to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I went ahead and googled "energy aware scheduling explanation" and got some great material to check out...
So from https://developer.arm.com/open-source/energy-aware-scheduling I read
Energy Aware Scheduling (EAS) is an enhancement to Linux power management, unifying CPU power control under the Linux kernel. EAS extends the Linux kernel scheduler to make it fully aware of the power/performance capabilities of the CPUs in the system, to optimize energy consumption for advanced multi-core SoCs including big.LITTLE. With EAS, the Linux kernel will use the task load and a CPU ‘Energy Model’ to control task placement to select the optimal CPU to run on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from the same post you're referencing https://forum.xda-developers.com/u11/development/kernel-kirisakura-eas-0-7-energy-aware-t3647471
EAS is a completely different breed compared to the conventional HMP system, where it serves an entirely different purpose of achieving the optimal balance between performance and efficiency, with the latter taking the top spot. EAS achieves that via cleverer tasks placement, by which the system determines which is the more efficient cluster for the task to be processed by, as well as categorising the different tasks into cgroups (top-app, foreground and background, in order from highest priority to lowest priority respectively) by which each cgroup receives its sliver of the available firepower (cpuset). EAS also offers the capability of inflating the perceived load, that's determined by the load trackers, of the task in any of the cgroups via its schedtune.boost setting, and whether the task should be processed by all the cpu cores available or only by the cluster the task has been placed on via its schedtune.prefer_idle setting. One of the key features of EAS is lifting almost all the processing from the governor to the CPU scheduler (no it is not the I/O scheduler, something different) and letting it take much much more control, leaving the CPU governor to only do the frequency determination part, which unsurprisingly relies heavily on data supplied by the scheduler. With all that said, it is easily deduced that EAS is not all about governors and governor settings and the like, rather a much cleverer solution that serves the purpose of seeking the best balance between performance and efficiency, and to ensure the CPU is not overdoing a task or the CPU governor is overshooting a simple task, which would attribute to needlessly draining a lot of power as a natural consequence. EAS is about ensuring you get the smoothest UI possible while retaining as much power as possible. However, that does not mean that EAS is lame poor when it comes to performance. Sometimes, if not in most cases, this cleverer tasks placement makes tasks get processed faster, a point that is already proved quite well by the EAS-supporting non-OOS based custom ROMs like VertexOS, ZeNiTy-RR and PAEX. Conserving battery does not necessarily mean crushing performance. This explains that app launches are on-par with HMP if not ahead of it sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also, the guy was comparing two options for EAS. he was saying schedutil is more efficient in comparison to sched because how each one was designed and explains why it is better. Here's something showing that Google has already been moving to schedutil https://www.linuxplumbersconf.org/2...ations/3693/original/LPC- EAS for Android.pdf
---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------
jhs39 said:
So I'm still wondering why most people in these threads continue to insist that sched is so wonderful and efficient that it can't be improved on and why devs for the most part don't seem to be trying to offer an alternative to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
another big reason developers are moving away from it is the fact that HMP (Global Task Scheduling) is being deprecated plain and simple.. https://developer.arm.com/-/media/d...eduling/BUD17_ProductCodeline_Info5.pdf?la=en
Here is an html version of the pdf so you dont have to download anything https://webcache.googleusercontent....ine_Info5.pdf?la=en+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
My Pixel XL overheated and shut down yet again today while I was using Maps, Spotify and the car charger at the same time and it wasn't even that hot out today--low 80's. If you contact Pixel support they will actually tell you that overheating is the most common complaint they get on a daily basis followed by poor battery life. You don't see any possible way that those two problems and the kernel behavior might actually be related?
I'm also starting to see more posts from people who say that their Pixels just died without warning, not responding to being plugged in or holding down the power button or anything else. If this problem starts to become widespread enough that even the Pixel cheerleaders in these threads can't ignore it then maybe some people here will finally admit that the phone runs too hot even with the supposed benefits of EAS and the sched governor.
I'm going to again suggest that people leave XDA and look at the official Pixel support threads from Google to get a better idea of how many people are actually having serious problems with these phones.
You might also want to consider contacting Pixel support and telling them that your phone overheated. That way you can get your own copy of the full page pre-prepared list of all the reasons the Pixel might overheat and shut down under what would widely be considered normal use. They've e-mailed the exact same word for word list to me 3 times and I'm sure they would be happy e-mailing the list to you.
I've also followed all the suggestions from Pixel Support. I downgraded from Android O back to Nougat. I ditched my car charger and bought the one sold in the Google Store. I ditched my protective case and switched to a bumper style case so the back of the phone wouldn't be covered. I managed to go 3 or 4 weeks without the Pixel XL overheating and shutting down but it finally happened again today.
The Pixel XL is the only phone I've ever owned that overheated and shut down. I've had cheap phones and mid priced phones and I have a Nexus 6P. I used them all the same way and the only one that ever had an overheating problem is the one that employs EAS and the sched governor.
The overheating problem even corresponds with the specific flaw that the dev found in his detailed analysis of sched--when CPU use starts to approach being high sched pushes the CPU frequency higher than is usually necessary and always maintains it at that level for longer than is necessary, which would explain why overheating is the number one problem reported to Pixel Support daily.
jhs39 said:
You might also want to consider contacting Pixel support and telling them that your phone overheated. That way you can get your own copy of the full page pre-prepared list of all the reasons the Pixel might overheat and shut down under what would widely be considered normal use. They've e-mailed the exact same word for word list to me 3 times and I'm sure they would be happy e-mailing the list to you.
I managed to go 3 or 4 weeks without the Pixel XL overheating and shutting down but it finally happened again today.
The Pixel XL is the only phone I've ever owned that overheated and shut down. I've had cheap phones and mid priced phones and I have a Nexus 6P. I used them all the same way and the only one that ever had an overheating problem is the one that employs EAS and the sched governor.
The overheating problem even corresponds with the specific flaw that the dev found in his detailed analysis of sched--when CPU use starts to approach being high sched pushes the CPU frequency higher than is usually necessary and always maintains it at that level for longer than is necessary, which would explain why overheating is the number one problem reported to Pixel Support daily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, i dont want to consider falsely reporting an issue because that complaint remains on my account so if I ever do have an actual issue with my device they'll think i'm just lying to get them to replace it for free.
went back to N, but you're running O as it rebooted meaning you know what works for your phone and what doesnt and you still chose to run something you knew doesn't work... user error...
so even though you are provided with explanations as far as how sched works you're gonna maintain the opinion that it's actively worse and the root of your problem despite using sched on bone-stock worked for no issue for 3-4 weeks...
what you're describing is what HMP would do on it's own and you wouldnt even notice. he's describing the processor running at a higher frequency than needed. So if 1.6 GHz are needed it's running at 1.65 to meet the demand. This does not mean the device will suddenly clock itself at a frequency that should not be possible and harming the device as a result.
if you have such a problem with your phone overheating you need to contact google and get your device replaced, or buy something else and until you do so I'll keep this tiny violin playing just for you.
My cpu tends to run around 118F on elementalX, using a case ambient temp about 78. Not concerning for me. I'm always playing games though, in the rare instance I'm not doing anything on it I can expect to see 105-113F.
Related
I hope this isn't perceived as spamming or fishing for votes. I think most of us would like to see a smoother Android GUI instead of that choppyness on our 1GHz phones. I and many people believe that Google can do something about this but are not prioritizing this as they should. I think we can change this by visiting and voting here, clicking on the star under the headline, if we want to see a change: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
Who knows, if we start voting now, maybe they will implement this feature in the next Android version.
P.S. You need a Google account to be able to vote.
EDIT: Maybe this is why we haven't seen it yet?
From what I've heard, the fault lies mostly with HTC, encouraged by wholesale indifference by the carriers. Here's the story I was told:
* Qualcomm makes the core chipset used by most HTC phones, and most Android phones were built by HTC until VERY recently. Thus, the things that got the most attention during Android's first year and a half of commercial availability were things directly supported by HTC phones.
* The price charged by Qualcomm for its chipset varies, depending upon what features the handset manufacturer chooses to license from them. Put another way, every Qualcomm chip in a given family has the silicon resources to do everything... but manufacturers are only allowed to use the features they pay Qualcomm for the right to use.
* Because the carriers don't care, and the carriers are HTC's real customers, HTC didn't care about GPU support, either. It saved a few cents per phone, and washed its hands of GPU support to boot.
* Making matters worse, Qualcomm only makes its chipset documentation available under NDA (at least, the parts dealing with "premium" capabilities), and only made it available to licensees (of which there were very, very few). Ergo, the documentation has been VERY hard to come by, and less likely to be leaked by a public-minded HTC employee for the good of humanity.
Put another way, there probably isn't a thing Qualcomm can do to stop the folks at xda-developers.com from releasing guerrilla video drivers for HTC Android phones that take advantage of acceleration if they can figure out how it works, but you'll never see a phone come out of the box new with GPU acceleration unless HTC officially licenses the capability from Qualcomm. Nor will you see Google making it easy to do an end-run around the official release to graft it on, because then Qualcomm would sue THEM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- This is from: http://androidforums.com/android-news-talk/29584-why-doesnt-androids-gui-use-gpu-acceleration.html
I starred it.
Definitely is bizarre that GPU integration isn't enabled in Android 2.1+
This hardware-can-do-qualcom-wont-allow-it is old...
It happens with a LOT of devices...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I'm glad to see that we are climbing on the chart of issues.
I have come to notice that the issue of the choppy Android experience is not only a problem because of the lack of GPU acceleration. Android phones tend to respond to our gestures way too exactly. This results in uneven transitions, one half of the animation is fast and the other half is slower. This unevenness being a result of us not making, or following through, with perfectly even movements in terms of speed. I believe this is something Apple has addressed and they did it very nicely because even though you are moving your fingers unevenly and slowly, the UI transitions follows your finger in an even and smooth fashion but in a speed that matches your finger. This looks phenomenal. Same goes for faster input gestures, the Ios (iOS) responds in an even and smooth fashion but the transition is faster.
It was the same with my old HD1, the xda gpu-drivers helped alot. Looks like we'll have to take the matter into our own hands again.
Wasn't HTC mass-sued for this a while back?
Syc said:
It was the same with my old HD1, the xda gpu-drivers helped alot. Looks like we'll have to take the matter into our own hands again.
Wasn't HTC mass-sued for this a while back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. There was a whole load of talk of it over the TyTn II debacle, but the only thing to ever come of that was the rather excellent XDA GPU drivers.
I hate to admit this, but if Google, or whoever it is responsible, doesn't do something about this, I'll have to look elsewhere (Iphone). It might sound crazy but it's that important to me. I mean, it's so basic. Why add mega-ultra-fiction features and all other sh*t, when you don't know how to make a smooth transition. The basic element of the GUI.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Apple, their policy or their attitude towards the rest. However, I'm being honest about this: they care. I haven't seen one Android phone capable of delivering smooth transitions although they are more powerful than the Iphones. On the one hand you have a team utilizing the entire potential of their sh**ty phones, and on the other hand you have a team doesn't give a rats a*s about the hardware in them.
I don't know if Google is to blame or the phone manufacturers. I just don't like the idea of owning a 1 GHz CPU and an awesome GPU (Samsung Galaxy S) and not being able to use it.
Sorry to bump an old thread.
Has there been any progress on this issue?
Using spare parts and setting all the window animations and transitions to very slow has made everything "smoother" to me for all purposes of discussion. during the slow but smooth transition, my phone has time to fully load the next screen or popup menu, therefore it all appears to happen seamlessly.
android is very smooth on my Hd2 ... Did you try a cyanogen mod build ?
Sorry, i was referring more towards the GPU being actively used by the UI front end.
Im using a Legend with Azure's cyanogen mod (froyo) things are pretty slick but I can tell when there are slowdowns, but the worst offender is definately the web browser.
The best example I can find is going to the html5 test website, I get a score of around 180 and the iphone about 140, but the legend browser (built in and Dolphin) really struggles to scroll that page, whereas on the Iphone its extremely smooth. Its these kind of inconsistencies which are annoying.
Another gripe is the whole portrait-landscape switch, its not gpu based in the least and its a rather half assed solution at the minute (visually). But I understand that no app could ever interfere with how this works as its so deep in the os? Such a shame.
I work in animation which is why im overly critical
Just a normal man thinking in a high voice!
Ok so i had a touch screen failure of my HD2 during usage of Android build; maybe it's a coincidence maybe not! But what annoys me is that i was preserving it nearly intact: never fell, no water, no heat, no cold, no underclocking or overclocking (except that smartass governor dims cpu to minimum by default when screen is off)
Fixed it in the end and cost me nearly 1/4 the price of the phone (120$)!
So let's face it! HD2 was DESIGNED for Winmo 6.5 and not for android! And please nobody try to convince me that it doesn't have any side effects!
Well, it's like using diesel oil for a regular gasoline car! There has to be some disorders! Or using a BMW engine on a Peugeot! Maybe the chassis will handle it but not the cooling system or the clutch or the wheels or etc....
So let's begin with some of the concerns that i think of and excuse me if some questions look silly, i'm neither a technician nor a developer! (i know many of them have some basic answers, but here i'm questioning even these answers):
1-About touch screen:
Well HD2 screen is capable of 128k colors if i remember good while android GENERATES or produce 16M colors; couldn't that have affected the pixels of the screen itself?! Couldn't that be warming these pixels to higher rates than normal rates that this screen can withstand?! Maybe the system is obliging in a way or another the pixels to display those colors while they can't physically so the are failing at the end?!
(I simulate it to overclocking of the CPU: making the CPU run at higher speeds than the original ones that it was designed to work under will make it fail in the end after some time)
(and please don't tell me this has nothing to do with the OS, bcz let's not forget that the screen was limited to 65k colors in winmo while it is capable of 128k colors, so OS does matter)
2-About CPU/battery/cell temperature:
I couldn't separate those 3 characteristics coz they are highly related! (and even related to the screen )
If we overclock ==> cell temp increase
If we underclock ==> cell temp decrease
And both are bad logically for the phone, because simply those smart engineers at HTC that designed the phone knew what were they doing; that's why they kept CPU out of reach of children p us) because it will regulates the temp of the cell phone automatically to optimal values!
Anyway, who said that optimal values for normal HD2 (winmo) with it's 64or128k colors screen are the same optimal values for an android phone with it's 16M colors screen!?
So my touchscreen failed suddenly while in android, couldn't the smartass governor was the reason behind it bcz it dropped the cell phone temp to less than 26deg in idle and something in the screen failed/broke?!?
What about the cooling system/ventilation in the phone?!?!
Maybe because of its high power consumption (thus temperature) an android phone is designed to ventilate/cool the system in a manner that a winmo can't do like our beloved HD2!?! Maybe that's why our phones gets so hot during heavy use!?
Many other questions come to my mind...Just wanted to discuss some points, and evidently many other points that you will share to see if using android on our beloved HD2 is safe after all or not...
Cheers
I've read about your touchscreen failure in another thread, and while I'm very sorry for you, how can you be sure it's because of Android? I'm not saying it's not possible, but just running an OS during a failure doesn't mean the OS caused it, I can imagine some people have had touchscreen failures on WinMo too.
Just trying to keep things a little in perspective here.
1. The screen is capable of 16M colors (not 128k). WinMo only supports 65k, and I believe Android does at this point too. Pixels are unrelated to the touch sensitive part anyway.
2. Overclocking can indeed have serious consequences for your CPU (and possible surrounding parts too), and should *always* be done with caution (better to refrain from it at all actually, the small performance gain isn't worth it). I believe all kernel devs indicate the possible and imminent danger of overclocking.
Underclocking can't be a problem though, that's obvious. Extreme cooling can destroy parts, but heating it up less than usual is still not at all the same as cooling something down.
Again, I'm sorry for what happened to your phone, but I think you're somewhat overreacting.
Edit: a more likely explanation for an Android-related failure would be that your CPU somehow went insane and produced too high temperatures, breaking stuff down. This isn't typical behaviour though, and can almost always be prevented.
Life Engineer said:
Just a normal man thinking in a high voice!
Ok so i had a touch screen failure of my HD2 during usage of Android build; maybe it's a coincidence maybe not! But what annoys me is that i was preserving it nearly intact: never fell, no water, no heat, no cold, no underclocking or overclocking (except that smartass governor dims cpu to minimum by default when screen is off)
So let's face it! HD2 was DESIGNED for Winmo 6.5 and not for android! And please nobody try to convince me that it doesn't have any side effects!
Well, it's like using diesel oil for a regular gasoline car! There has to be some disorders! Or using a BMW engine on a Peugeot! Maybe the chassis will handle it but not the cooling system or the clutch or the wheels or etc....
So let's begin with some of the concerns that i think of and excuse me if some questions look silly, i'm neither a technician nor a developer! (i know many of them have some basic answers, but here i'm questioning even these answers):
1-About touch screen:
Well HD2 screen is capable of 128k colors if i remember good while android GENERATES or produce 16M colors; couldn't that have affected the pixels of the screen itself?! Couldn't that be warming these pixels to higher rates than normal rates that this screen can withstand?! Maybe the system is obliging in a way or another the pixels to display those colors while they can't physically so the are failing at the end?!
(I simulate it to overclocking of the CPU: making the CPU run at higher speeds than the original ones that it was designed to work under will make it fail in the end after some time)
(and please don't tell me this has nothing to do with the OS, bcz let's not forget that the screen was limited to 65k colors in winmo while it is capable of 128k colors, so OS does matter)
2-About CPU/battery/cell temperature:
I couldn't separate those 3 characteristics coz they are highly related! (and even related to the screen )
If we overclock ==> cell temp increase
If we underclock ==> cell temp decrease
And both are bad logically for the phone, because simply those smart engineers at HTC that designed the phone knew what were they doing; that's why they kept CPU out of reach of children p us) because it will regulates the temp of the cell phone automatically to optimal values!
Anyway, who said that optimal values for normal HD2 (winmo) with it's 64or128k colors screen are the same optimal values for an android phone with it's 16M colors screen!?
So my touchscreen failed suddenly while in android, couldn't the smartass governor was the reason behind it bcz it dropped the cell phone temp to less than 26deg in idle and something in the screen failed/broke?!?
What about the cooling system/ventilation in the phone?!?!
Maybe because of its high power consumption (thus temperature) an android phone is designed to ventilate/cool the system in a manner that a winmo can't do like our beloved HD2!?! Maybe that's why our phones gets so hot during heavy use!?
Many other questions come to my mind...Just wanted to discuss some points, and evidently many other points that you will share to see if using android on our beloved HD2 is safe after all or not...
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "TOUCH SCREEN" has nothing to do with the CPU, therefore no amount of overclocking will damage your "touch screen".
Has your pc monitor ever got damaged by overclocking your pc's cpu? NO
Just because your screen stopped working in Android doesn't mean that it was caused by Android.
The GPU driver would limit Android or any other OS from forcing 16m colours on a 128k screen therefore no damage would be caused to the screen itself because it is limited by the driver. The driver tells Android (or any other OS) which resolution and colour depth is supported and will only support that. Just because Android is capable of 16m doesn't mean it will force that colour depth.
This was simply a manufacturing defect in your screen and could have happened at any time, it could have happened in WinMo but just happened to happen while your phone was booted into Android.
Also be aware that the screen is TFT, and there is a separate layer called the digitizer above the actual TFT screen which senses the touch. They are separate components, therefore the screen itself isn't a touch screen.
if devs or experience users can post wats the maximum temp and ma a hd2 device could take that would realy help us alot to see if a built is working normaly or pushing our hardware excessively..mayb juz a gauge like say over 36 degress is a risk or sumting like that..info like this will realy help us users
Stop overreacting, its just a hardware failure, just get it fixed and youre good to go.
derycklong said:
Stop overreacting, its just a hardware failure, just get it fixed and youre good to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man no one is overreacting! I fixed it (maybe you didn't read the thread after all) and i am willing to use android again!!! However, if we shacked our brains a bit to see if android has any down effects on our cells, it wouldn't be such a bad thing!!! Nothing to loose, and maybe many things to win after all!
I wanted to put down a whole story on how stupid your comparison's are and how you should leave the thinking about this stuff to ppl who actually know what they are talking about.
Android wont destroy your hardware its a bare bone operating system with custom drivers to run on our HD2. Software imput cant realy damage your hardware unless your overclocking.
Take it from ppl who know what they are talking about seeing you seem to be clueless
shuntje said:
I wanted to put down a whole story on how stupid your comparison's are and how you should leave the thinking about this stuff to ppl who actually know what they are talking about.
Android wont destroy your hardware its a bare bone operating system with custom drivers to run on our HD2. Software imput cant realy damage your hardware unless your overclocking.
Take it from ppl who know what they are talking about seeing you seem to be clueless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to be rude! That's what i said in my post, i'm not a technician or a developer, i just have some concerns/questions and i need to be insured!
Besides, i am pretty sure that many others have many other concerns/questions!
That's why i titled it a "discussion"!
So if you are ready for a good discussion welcome; if you are not or think yourself much highly educated to discuss such silly ideas you can keep you mouth shut like many people did!
Regards
Software just doesn't work like that.
If any, the only side-effects that I can see is that we are using the Hardware Buttons more often, therefore they might fail earlier using Android instead of WinMobile.
The car comparison isnt really good.. Its more like when you buy a computer from the market with preinstalled windows os and put a linux on it. It wont kill your pc. It may not work as intended because of driver issues, but if set properly, there should be no problem. And as far as i know, its not that easy to overheat a cpu, because there is a hardware security built in, so your mobo knows what to do. It will just shut down. Sure,you can have bad luck and your cpu can die. I dont overclock my HD2 (only for benchmarking maybe), but i concider myself as a hardcore pc overclocker (like 15 years now), so i am aware of the potential risks and know what i am talking about
I agree with Greg on this one
Hardware is hardware on a computer..
If the correct software is written for it it will run.
I.e i run emulators on android and thats emulating the 68000 chip set no problems there.
But most damge you will cause to your phone is over clocking the CPU until it dies..
Reminds me when used to run windows 3.1 on my old AMiga
If this puts your mind at rest and stops people flaming.
No your touch screen failure was unrelated to Android. The cpu temps and screen res would not have been related. Had you had cpu or screen res/pixel related issues your symptoms would have different.
There are some risks to android, the worst of them being imho your battery going flat when your desperately trying to phone for a lift because the trains and buses have stopped and it's bloody cold outside (as I found out last week). However what I'd suggest is rather then non-devs making uneducated guesses we leave threads like this to the devs who can state specifically what the risks are.
Well, the worst that can happen, is killing the phone. happend to me. I started android, went outside the room for a minute and when I came back, the phone was dead and awfully hot. Fortunately htc repaired it ...
greg17477 said:
The car comparison isnt really good.. Its more like when you buy a computer from the market with preinstalled windows os and put a linux on it. It wont kill your pc. It may not work as intended because of driver issues, but if set properly, there should be no problem. And as far as i know, its not that easy to overheat a cpu, because there is a hardware security built in, so your mobo knows what to do. It will just shut down. Sure,you can have bad luck and your cpu can die. I dont overclock my HD2 (only for benchmarking maybe), but i concider myself as a hardcore pc overclocker (like 15 years now), so i am aware of the potential risks and know what i am talking about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that´s a nice comparison... but still, the operating system as a whole, means including hard- and software, is a highly complex entity.
Concerning LC displays, you can actually kill them if the power on sequence (eg. the voltage), which drives the display, is wrong. Depending on the display, there is a certain range of voltage which is fine, but below or higher still can produce problems or even permanent damage. Please don´t forget the complex structure of the LCD´s in our HD2´s.
To concur with some of the above posts, I have a computer that I have running Windows 7 on. I have also run XP and Vista on it.
Additionally I run Linux on it.
And if that were not enough, I am brave enough to admit I run OSX on it.
None of these affect any aspect of my hardware.
Now I do believe I do not have a large enough power supply to run my two hard drives, two optical, dual video cards and pro audio card. But that is a hardware issue, as the OP's issue clearly was hardware failure.
And yes, usage does affect computer/mobile life, no matter the OS it is running.
Life Engineer said:
No need to be rude! That's what i said in my post, i'm not a technician or a developer, i just have some concerns/questions and i need to be insured!
Besides, i am pretty sure that many others have many other concerns/questions!
That's why i titled it a "discussion"!
So if you are ready for a good discussion welcome; if you are not or think yourself much highly educated to discuss such silly ideas you can keep you mouth shut like many people did!
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again you stated in your first post dont try and convince me that it was not android that killed my toutch screen. So thats why i was rude ppl who say stuff like that in a opening post while saying you want a discussion is just useless.
winmobile screen failure
if this were any assurance to go by, here's my story: I had a screen failure of my hd2 back in the time when I was running it with windows mobile only - it simply would not respond to touch at all.. fortunately, htc has repaired it and I've been assured that such problems might happen to some handsets from the first months of production... my screen (or was it digitizer) was apparently replaced by a newer version/model... Since then everything has been running very smoothly on my hd2, and I've been testing all sorts of android versions available on this forum.. no problems with the screen or anything whatsoever...
Your concern are not logical to begin with. First of all: Android is a piece of software, that runs on top of Windows Mobile. It won't change anything. It is self containing. So it's like any other App you downloaded from the Windows Marketplace. Secondly: The gamut of Android or WinMo has nothing to do with what the LCD is really able to produce. If you turn down Windows 7 16bit Colordepth, you'll only get 16bit. If you crank it up to 32bit and your monitor is only able to handle 16bit, than you'll see 16bit colors. No pixel will overheat. And the last point: Underclocking won't damage you CPU. It will even increase the lifespan of it, because it does not have to process as many inputs and outputs within each second. If you just run Winmo, it is much colder than using an app.
It is just a hardwarefailure, nothing more. Happened to all of us at least once.
NessD said:
Android is a piece of software, that runs on top of Windows Mobile. It won't change anything. It is self containing. So it's like any other App you downloaded from the Windows Marketplace.
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Wrong.
/Two cents,
My phone’s touchscreen broke while using Android. I eventually found my “Back” key is somehow interfering with the touch, and now when it happens I need to press the key many many times to stop it jamming the screen’s input. Very annoying but luckily not so serious to need replacing (yet).
As stated above, I think hardware-wise the biggest issue with Android is that you probably will use your buttons more, and as your device is likely to be over a year old, it’s possible you’ll see these give way more. But *shrug* what can you do? Every hardware has a shelf-life. And my hardware fault may well have occurred just as easily on Android.
//Edit: *On Windows Mobile
I have never rooted any of my Android devices because I've never really had any reason to. That and I was always nervous to do with my Droid Incredible even though I'm a computer guy.
However, I am considering rooting for this device because of some benefits I've read about such as:
1. Overclocking
2. Better battery life
3. Additional apps or functionality (I want to use Google Movies, Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc and I am guessing root might help get some of this sooner based on some of the other threads)
My concern is whether overclocking has any risk to the processor long term in the tab? For some reason, I seem to have something in my head from years back that overclocking computers/devices could cause processors to overheat or something. Maybe this is an old concern from when I was in college that was specific to PC hardware?
Also, aside from sticky threads, is there any thing on the wiki that talks a bit more about some of the apps used to manage ROMs and backups along with what is preferred and why? I read a good rooting guide thread in Android development forum but apps change all the time and I read different things in each thread that it can be hard to follow jumping in now.
If I missed a thread, feel free to point me to it.
Thanks.
Overclock always carries risks to hardware, especially without proper configuration. When overclocking you will use apps such as SetCPU or others, these apps typically have 'profiles' set up. On my LG G2x I have profiles set like:
Default 1.5GHz
Screen Off 400mhz
Battery Tempurate 48c Downclock to 800mhz
These settings will give you great performance, great battery life and a safety net assuming you leave your phone in direct heat. Sometimes if the battery gets too hot you'll damage your hardware, I've had this happen to my old Nexus One where I now have a very dark spot measuring about half an inch around on my display.
In consideration to rooted apps for Galaxy Tab... Hulu works without root by simply installing a modified Adobe Flash Player and adjusting your browser configuration to reflect a desktop user agent (You can easily find all this information using Google). Google Movies probably won't be available to rooted devices due to the agreement that Google signed with production companies, and whether root will allow you to run this application really depends on the way the content is delivered, however, I'm sure someone will figure it out.
Overclocking the Galaxy Tab probably will resemble the performance measures of other Tegra based devices. G2x can acheive 1.5GHz and Xoom 1.7GHz. Stability is really hit or miss as no two cpu's are created equal. I'm on my third Galaxy Tab and my third G2x and have not ran into an issue where I can't overclock to the speeds which kernel developers are building.
Edit: There is really only one overclock kernel available right now for the 10.1 and Pershoot is working hard to make it stable and powerful, the current 'preview' has quite a few stability issues.
So, hopefully this helps you out. Just an FYI though, really try and search. This has been repeated hundreds of times throughout various different forums. The general consensus is that rooting provides far too many benefits to be afraid of hurting your device, and so long as your are able to A. Unroot the phone for manufacture warranty B. Backup and restore using Nandroid, you will not have any issues that can't be resolved.
Heat is bad for electronics, and any time you increase the operating frequency or voltage of a microprocessor, you're going to be generating more heat. Modern hardware has thermal monitoring and throttling capabilities, and as such you're going to be able to simply fry your processor by pushing it too hard. However the additional stress is is accumulative and will shorten the life of your hardware.
That being said, I suspect that the operational life time of the chips in our tablets (and virtually any modern computer) is several orders of magnitude longer than their useful life time. I'm not entirely sure how long these processors last if operated at spec (it may be in a white paper somewhere), but I suspect it is on the order of many decades, if not centuries.
mesasone, true it will generate heat at full load but in all reality my G2x rarely throttles all the way up to 1.5GHz unless I manual set it to for benchmarking.
Thanks wesbalmer and mesasone. I've been reading threads all day for the last 6 hrs before posting but I'll search a bit more next time. This was helpful in reassuring me though.
I got a Nexus 7 3G for Christmas, and I'm happy with it except for a few issues. One is that it occasionally spontaneously reboots (although this could be CM, I'm not on stock) and the other is that it suffers from transient performance issues, especially when multitasking. Typically it is very smooth and everything works fluidly. However, when switching between different applications or using the tablet while a background service is running, there are frequently long lags of non-responsiveness and choppiness. Considering that it runs CPU/GPU intensive tasks fine and when the issues arise, I'm guessing that the problems come from poor I/O performance. Indeed, when I ran a few benchmarks, the Nexus was up to par except with its I/O scores, where it performed dismally.
Is this a normal problem, common to all Nexus 7's, or should I use warranty to get it replaced? If it is a common problem, is there a particular kernel, I/O scheduler, etc. recommended to disguise or work around the issue? I find it pretty annoying when it happens. The fact that there is a dedicated soft-button for multi-tasking makes the problem seem especially annoying because I have to remind myself not to use it too much.
Hello all, one of the main reasons why i chose the xperia z1 compact over a galaxy s5 by then was that i knew that z1 compact had much more power to spare for future gaming thanks to the low screen resolution, It was very hard for me to choose this time galaxy s6 over z5 compact for the same reason, but i succumbed to the bigger better oled screen this time around even though i was upset at the senseless screen resolution of 1440 x 2560 which made it clear that the phone would struggle with current high end games to keep 60fps let alone future games...
Well after playing Dead Trigger 2 with all gfx on max surprise surprise, the phone could not keep up with its absurd screen resolution a steady 60fps so i started thinking if there was a proper screen res changer tool this time around as i was a bit familiar with some of them in the past which done a poor job and many times left the phone unusuable thx to the resolution affecting the OS itself aswell.
Well guess what, Samsung woke up and presented galaxy s6 owners (and some other high end galaxy models) with a very nice solution.
Its called Game Tuner, officially made by Samsung and you can find it here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samsung.android.gametuner.thin&hl=pt_PT
What it does is exactly what all the games should have in the first place, options to choose resolution for your game without changing the resolution for your OS GUI, on top of that, you have a nice control panel profile system which allows you to setup different settings for different games installed in your phone, this apps benefits you with the following:
1)Lower graphics resolution for any games of your choosing,
2) It allows you to even force 3D games which are running at a lower resolution than your screen to actually run at highest resolution supported by your screen,
3)It also allows you to lock FPS to 30 instead of 60 if you would like to preserve some battery life.
4)Allows you some brightness control per game.
Here are the more confusing settings explained:
High (turns all games to the highest resolution of the phone screen) almost impossible to observe pixelization
Medium (turns all games to a tad lower res (i believe 1920*1080) difficult to observe pixelization
Low (turns all games to an even lower res( i believe 1270*720) pixelization visible but not too ugly
Extreme Low (turns all games to the lowest resolution possible (i believe 840*472) as i see alot of pixelization
Custom (Allows you to select each game with a specific profile (high, medium, low, extreme low).
Now you can fully enjoy that 2k screen without reprecussions!
Give it a try and have fun!
EDIT: If any questions feel free to ask and ill try to help as i can.
Wow, thanks for sharing. Works great. You can even specify the resolution, fps and brightness per game.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk
NP, glad you like it, updated thread with more information and corrected some grammar issues.
You can already find this in the S6 themes and apps section. No need to post this here
Thanks, this is really cool. I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't posted it here! I wish it would actually tell you what resolution each of the settings are. I tried taking a screenshot in game after I enabled it and then checking the "details" in gallery but it still said 2560*1440.
Now I'd like to know how I can completely disable it? It seems even after uninstall the settings remain. I'd like to now bypass the 60FPS limit.
lite426 said:
Thanks, this is really cool. I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't posted it here! I wish it would actually tell you what resolution each of the settings are. I tried taking a screenshot in game after I enabled it and then checking the "details" in gallery but it still said 2560*1440.
Now I'd like to know how I can completely disable it? It seems even after uninstall the settings remain. I'd like to now bypass the 60FPS limit.
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The settings wont remain after uninstalling, i say this because i tried it myself by setting a game to lowest resolution possible and after uninstalling it rolled back to normal, many people believe that, without modding, all games will run by default on the highest resolution supported by your screen, this is a false assumption, and you can easelly notice that with games such as Asphalt 8 and Real Racing 3.
Indeed it should specify resolution instead of "very low, low, med, high," thats why the thread settings are nothing more but assumptions.
Also setting it to MED is considered the default setting for said game in this app so maybe med is actually the default app resolution.
crzykiller said:
You can already find this in the S6 themes and apps section. No need to post this here
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Well, i think it doesn't stress anybody, but the opposite: more users will know about it. It seems this app is not that popular, many users have no idea about it (i found it a couple of weeks ago by mistake in playstore).
The app should receive more coverage in media too. This will be a win-win situation for all, and maybe samsung will add a system-wide option for resolution change (yeah, keep dreaming)
I believe beying able to choose fullscreen resolution of your phone shouldve been a thing implemented by default, im Really happy that samsung thinked of this for my S6 as i can play games like dead effect 2 with extreme graphics but reduced resolution (almost imperceptible pixelization) and get a rock steady 60fps, the only strange thing it semms that it is happening is that after a level or two the game starts to loose performance, other users also reported this issue, samsung will hopefully fix it in the next app update.
TheWarKeeper said:
I believe beying able to choose fullscreen resolution of your phone shouldve been a thing implemented by default, im Really happy that samsung thinked of this for my S6 as i can play games like dead effect 2 with extreme graphics but reduced resolution (almost imperceptible pixelization) and get a rock steady 60fps, the only strange thing it semms that it is happening is that after a level or two the game starts to loose performance, other users also reported this issue, samsung will hopefully fix it in the next app update.
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I think you should also disable DVFS for optimal performance gains.
vnvman said:
I think you should also disable DVFS for optimal performance gains.
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Yes that would increase performance but its a heavy risk considering you might burn up ur cpu or gpu and void the warranty
TheWarKeeper said:
Yes that would increase performance but its a heavy risk considering you might burn up ur cpu or gpu and void the warranty
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I may be wrong but I assume unless you game all day long it shouldn't make too much of a difference in terms of lifespan (assuming one swaps phone every 2 years or so), pretty much like OC/OV.
vnvman said:
I may be wrong but I assume unless you game all day long it shouldn't make too much of a difference in terms of lifespan (assuming one swaps phone every 2 years or so), pretty much like OC/OV.
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Indeed OC reduces lifespan of said component but the problem is more serious than that, if you disable the throttle the GPU or CPU might overheat, it depends on the phone and the chips inside and also the heat dissipation quality which can range from different thermal pastes to different heatsinks and to where is that heat transfered after that, its a risk of hardware damage without knowing its internal chips temps.
But thats just me who knows maybe im wrong.
TheWarKeeper said:
Indeed OC reduces lifespan of said component but the problem is more serious than that, if you disable the throttle the GPU or CPU might overheat, it depends on the phone and the chips inside and also the heat dissipation quality which can range from different thermal pastes to different heatsinks and to where is that heat transfered after that, its a risk of hardware damage without knowing its internal chips temps.
But thats just me who knows maybe im wrong.
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Well that would totally make sense, but at least as to OC+slight OV it has been tested that the possibility of making some actual damage will most likely be very slim untill around the 5 year mark or so of usage. As to DVFS, by disabling that you don't actually disable throttling completely, which is still managed by the kernel (as it should), but only Samsung's more aggressive throttling which is completely unnecessary because it's always trying to keep the phone "super cool" at the expense of performance, while some people who are into heavy games would use a device hot to the point that it causes mild discomfort (but still safe for the components), rather than a device that is slightly cooler but gets laggy after 2 minutes of actual gameplay.
I guess it's up to the user to decide whether to mess with this or not, maybe for most people it won't be worth even the slight risks but for people like me who happen to enjoy heavy games and swap phones every year and a half or so it's good to have the option.
vnvman said:
Well that would totally make sense, but at least as to OC+slight OV it has been tested that the possibility of making some actual damage will most likely be very slim untill around the 5 year mark or so of usage. As to DVFS, by disabling that you don't actually disable throttling completely, which is still managed by the kernel (as it should), but only Samsung's more aggressive throttling which is completely unnecessary because it's always trying to keep the phone "super cool" at the expense of performance, while some people who are into heavy games would use a device hot to the point that it causes mild discomfort (but still safe for the components), rather than a device that is slightly cooler but gets laggy after 2 minutes of actual gameplay.
I guess it's up to the user to decide whether to mess with this or not, maybe for most people it won't be worth even the slight risks but for people like me who happen to enjoy heavy games and swap phones every year and a half or so it's good to have the option.
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I tought the DVFS disabled the throttle completely, its good to know it doesnt then and i agree, the samsung throttle is overreacting and prolly did better good with it off than on, thanks for your suggestion.
TheWarKeeper said:
Yes that would increase performance but its a heavy risk considering you might burn up ur cpu or gpu and void the warranty
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I play with Samsung DVFS always off and I can play dead effect for 2 hours straight without performance degradation... CPU doesn't go over 75-80*C depending on the ambient temperature