I purchased a Google Daydream a month or two after I got my Pixel XL, and have used it off and on for some low intensity stuff (mainly Netflix VR, which is fantastic.) I have tried a few games, but didn't find them incredibly compelling, nor did I find them worth heating my device up to ridiculous temperatures. Over the time I've been using the Daydream, I've noticed that the visual performance on stock 7.1.1 is wayy better than with most custom ROMs. Even with custom kernels, performance modes, and GPU/CPU overclocking, I still experience more frame tearing, more blur, and in most cases, more heat, than with stock. Does anyone have any tips for mitigating any of these factors with custom ROMs? Has anyone had any success increasing visual performance, or reducing heat with custom ROMs? Are there any ROM/kernel settings that make things better?
In terms of heat, I've seen many users' solutions involving shoving ice packs, fans, etc. into the headset behind the phone, and I found most of them too cumbersome. My personal solution doesn't apply while using the Daydream, but instead addresses cooling the device before and after. Essentially, I built a stand for my phone that holds a large, thick piece of aluminum behind the phone, and runs a small desk fan over the whole setup. I recently upgraded the stand to hold an icepack behind the fan, so that the air could be cooler, without introducing condensation. I'll include pictures in a subsequent post, for anyone interested.
The Pixel was built to run stock Android and I didn't find any custom Roms that ran as well as stock when I was playing with roms. On top of that custom kernels and rom kernels for the Pixel don't offer the same performance customization options that were available on other phones.. On the Nexus 6P there were not only a bunch of different kernel governors that changed the way the phone performed but there were numerous custom profiles within the governors that tweaked performance further. On the Pixel there's one governor, sched. Any custom rom you use utilizes the same kernel governor and any custom kernel you use utilizes the same kernel governor and devs haven't offered any tweaks or profiles for it. To me that's an admission that devs don't really know how to improve performance on what Google already wrote for the Pixel. That lack of what would be considered basic and essential knowledge for devs on other phones means custom rom devs and custom kernel devs may offer features and customization options that you can't get on stock but they don't have the slightest idea how to actually improve performance and stability over stock. I doubt that you will find better Daydream performance on any custom rom.
jhs39 said:
The Pixel was built to run stock Android and I didn't find any custom Roms that ran as well as stock when I was playing with roms. On top of that custom kernels and rom kernels for the Pixel don't offer the same performance customization options that were available on other phones.. On the Nexus 6P there were not only a bunch of different kernel governors that changed the way the phone performed but there were numerous custom profiles within the governors that tweaked performance further. On the Pixel there's one governor, sched. Any custom rom you use utilizes the same kernel governor and any custom kernel you use utilizes the same kernel governor and devs haven't offered any tweaks or profiles for it. To me that's an admission that devs don't really know how to improve performance on what Google already wrote for the Pixel. That lack of what would be considered basic and essential knowledge for devs on other phones means custom rom devs and custom kernel devs may offer features and customization options that you can't get on stock but they don't have the slightest idea how to actually improve performance and stability over stock. I doubt that you will find better Daydream performance on any custom rom.
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Click to collapse
I definitely agree with you on a couple points, but I think that the less substantial development you're noting is probably not due to incapable developers, but rather to the fact that the Pixel/XL is significantly different from any other device. The partitioning methods, kernel, governors, etc. threw everyone for a loop, and I think that as more devices like this are released, and with Android O development, there will be significant improvements.
On the other hand, right now, stock does seem to be the best option as far as I can tell, so that's likely what I'll be going back to.
SonarMonkey said:
I definitely agree with you on a couple points, but I think that the less substantial development you're noting is probably not due to incapable developers, but rather to the fact that the Pixel/XL is significantly different from any other device. The partitioning methods, kernel, governors, etc. threw everyone for a loop, and I think that as more devices like this are released, and with Android O development, there will be significant improvements.
On the other hand, right now, stock does seem to be the best option as far as I can tell, so that's likely what I'll be going back to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Pixel has been out for a while and the development situation for the Pixel hasn't really improved so it doesn't seem like devs are making any notable progress in terms of understanding how the Pixel functions and offering anything other than cosmetic adjustments to stock. Not being a dev I'm not sure why that is but it just doesn't seem like it's going to happen --at least not on this phone.
jhs39 said:
The Pixel was built to run stock Android and I didn't find any custom Roms that ran as well as stock when I was playing with roms. On top of that custom kernels and rom kernels for the Pixel don't offer the same performance customization options that were available on other phones.. On the Nexus 6P there were not only a bunch of different kernel governors that changed the way the phone performed but there were numerous custom profiles within the governors that tweaked performance further. On the Pixel there's one governor, sched. Any custom rom you use utilizes the same kernel governor and any custom kernel you use utilizes the same kernel governor and devs haven't offered any tweaks or profiles for it. To me that's an admission that devs don't really know how to improve performance on what Google already wrote for the Pixel. That lack of what would be considered basic and essential knowledge for devs on other phones means custom rom devs and custom kernel devs may offer features and customization options that you can't get on stock but they don't have the slightest idea how to actually improve performance and stability over stock. I doubt that you will find better Daydream performance on any custom rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the point in governors you are at least incorrect on that front, at least the kirisakura kernel includes more than just sched, in fact the default governor is shedutil. The reason why you are not seeing as many governors, and profiles is probably because of eas not because they haven't figured it out, just it's probably not as necessary to tweak as much any more
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
kkeith said:
For the point in governors you are at least incorrect on that front, at least the kirisakura kernel includes more than just sched, in fact the default governor is shedutil. The reason why you are not seeing as many governors, and profiles is probably because of eas not because they haven't figured it out, just it's probably not as necessary to tweak as much any more
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Click to collapse
I know that's the excuse that people are using including devs--sched is so perfect and efficient that there's no reason to even develop other kernel governors. I was mocked in the official ElementalEx thread (including by the dev) for daring to suggest that devs were dropping the ball by not developing other governors for the Pixel. But as far as I can tell sched is the eas equivalent of the On Demand governor. The temperature of my phone battery jumps from around 80F idle to 100F almost instantly as soon as I pick it up and the screen comes on, which suggests to me that sched maxes out the CPU as soon as it detects activity like On Demand did. Most people on pre-eas smartphones who used a custom kernel didn't stick with On Demand as their governor even though it provided maximum performance (which is why phone manufacturers used it by default) so why are Pixel owners so satisfied with sched when it appears to function in the same way? It makes zero sense to me and as someone who has experienced overheating problems with my Pixel (which Pixel support freely admits is one of the two most common complaints they encounter, the other being poor battery life) I would personally appreciate being able to use the eas equivalent of a balanced governor.
I haven't heard of the custom kernel you cited but I have seen schedutil mentioned somewhere and tried to find out what kernel offered it. Do you know what the difference is between stock sched and schedutil?
jhs39 said:
I know that's the excuse that people are using including devs--sched is so perfect and efficient that there's no reason to even develop other kernel governors. I was mocked in the official ElementalEx thread (including by the dev) for daring to suggest that devs were dropping the ball by not developing other governors for the Pixel. But as far as I can tell sched is the eas equivalent of the On Demand governor. The temperature of my phone battery jumps from around 80F idle to 100F almost instantly as soon as I pick it up and the screen comes on, which suggests to me that sched maxes out the CPU as soon as it detects activity like On Demand did. Most people on pre-eas smartphones who used a custom kernel didn't stick with On Demand as their governor even though it provided maximum performance (which is why phone manufacturers used it by default) so why are Pixel owners so satisfied with sched when it appears to function in the same way? It makes zero sense to me and as someone who has experienced overheating problems with my Pixel (which Pixel support freely admits is one of the two most common complaints they encounter, the other being poor battery life) I would personally appreciate being able to use the eas equivalent of a balanced governor.
I haven't heard of the custom kernel you cited but I have seen schedutil mentioned somewhere and tried to find out what kernel offered it. Do you know what the difference is between stock sched and schedutil?
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Click to collapse
Post number 2 about half way down there is an explanation as to the differences and why schedutil is a little better, as well as an explanation on some other eas governors.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/forum.x...nt/kernel-kirisakura-kernel-0-1-t3554330/amp/
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
jhs39 said:
I know that's the excuse that people are using including devs--sched is so perfect and efficient that there's no reason to even develop other kernel governors. I was mocked in the official ElementalEx thread (including by the dev) for daring to suggest that devs were dropping the ball by not developing other governors for the Pixel. But as far as I can tell sched is the eas equivalent of the On Demand governor. The temperature of my phone battery jumps from around 80F idle to 100F almost instantly as soon as I pick it up and the screen comes on, which suggests to me that sched maxes out the CPU as soon as it detects activity like On Demand did. Most people on pre-eas smartphones who used a custom kernel didn't stick with On Demand as their governor even though it provided maximum performance (which is why phone manufacturers used it by default) so why are Pixel owners so satisfied with sched when it appears to function in the same way? It makes zero sense to me and as someone who has experienced overheating problems with my Pixel (which Pixel support freely admits is one of the two most common complaints they encounter, the other being poor battery life) I would personally appreciate being able to use the eas equivalent of a balanced governor.
I haven't heard of the custom kernel you cited but I have seen schedutil mentioned somewhere and tried to find out what kernel offered it. Do you know what the difference is between stock sched and schedutil?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, someone replied to you and* provided the same link as the guy below you in this thread.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-xl/help/sched-2-t3630966
---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------
jhs39 said:
I know that's the excuse that people are using including devs--sched is so perfect and efficient that there's no reason to even develop other kernel governors. I was mocked in the official ElementalEx thread (including by the dev) for daring to suggest that devs were dropping the ball by not developing other governors for the Pixel. But as far as I can tell sched is the eas equivalent of the On Demand governor. The temperature of my phone battery jumps from around 80F idle to 100F almost instantly as soon as I pick it up and the screen comes on, which suggests to me that sched maxes out the CPU as soon as it detects activity like On Demand did. Most people on pre-eas smartphones who used a custom kernel didn't stick with On Demand as their governor even though it provided maximum performance (which is why phone manufacturers used it by default) so why are Pixel owners so satisfied with sched when it appears to function in the same way? It makes zero sense to me and as someone who has experienced overheating problems with my Pixel (which Pixel support freely admits is one of the two most common complaints they encounter, the other being poor battery life) I would personally appreciate being able to use the eas equivalent of a balanced governor.
I haven't heard of the custom kernel you cited but I have seen schedutil mentioned somewhere and tried to find out what kernel offered it. Do you know what the difference is between stock sched and schedutil?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mocked after you said this....
jhs39 said:
I can't possibly disagree with you more. The stock governor sched on the Pixel XL is the equivalent of the On Demand governor on the old Nexus devices but on steroids. Picking up my phone and the screen coming on is enough to raise the temperature of my Pixel XL battery by 20F almost instantly. The simple act of reading emails or surfing the Internet causes the CPU to max out as if you were doing heavy gaming. That isn't my idea of optimized and I think it's disgraceful that ElementalEx would even release a kernel for the Pixel XL where the only governor you can actually use is sched. This isn't a new phone. Everyone doesn't want their Pixel XL to burn out like the Nexus 5X or Nexus 6P but with the sched governor the Pixel XL consistently runs at a higher internal temperature than either of those phones did. Mine has already shut down multiple times because of overheating which wouldn't happen with a more balanced kernel governor that didn't constantly push the CPU so hard even when it's completely unnecessary for what you are actually doing with the phone.
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Click to collapse
jhs39 said:
Multiple people on XDA who have actually bothered to check the temps that their Pixel operates at have reported being alarmed and RMA'ing their devices only to receive a refurbished device that operates at the exact same high temperatures. Because the phone doesn't feel hot to the touch doesn't mean the temperature isn't very hot inside.
Pixel overheating is such a common problem that if you do a Google search on Pixel XL problems overheating will be on every single list that comes up....
With the Nexus phones you could easily flash a custom kernel and change the governor from On Demand to Interactive. After you did that the phone would run cooler inside, the battery would last longer and there would be no perceptible drop off in performance because 95% of users don't need the maxed out kernel settings that Google uses by default. But you can't do that with the Pixel because devs of custom kernels for the most part didn't create any other governors that work with the Pixel--it's mostly sched or nothing and sched is an On Demand style governor whether XDA owners in these threads realize it or not.
I don't have any personal kernel tweaks. I'm not a developer and wouldn't really know where to start. I expected the development community to actually develop other governors that work with the Pixels but they have largely dropped the ball.
With the Nexus communities on XDA people were more than willing to discuss the shortcomings of the devices. With the Pixel XL community if you suggest that maybe the phone actually has some flaws that devs should really be addressing you typically get attacked by Google fanboys who are in a complete state of denial where this phone is concerned and are unwilling to admit that the device isn't perfect.
If you think the sched governor is the greatest thing ever and absolutely love it that's your privilege, even if I think you are in denial about how hot the sched governor makes this phone run internally. But I think there should be a choice of kernel governors like there was on previous Nexus devices for people like me who aren't actually thrilled with Google's stock governor. That choice does not exist with this phone.
I can't honestly fathom how the developer of a major recognized kernel like ElementalEx could make a kernel for the Pixel XL but not offer a single alternative governor that actually works with the phone--or the fact that Pixel users on XDA seem to have no problem with that at all.
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Click to collapse
1) 5 other people, multiple users have suggested you contact Google to have your device replaced as it is behaving differently than others. Anyone who disagreed with you was called a fanboy by you...
2) If you go looking for problems, of course you'll find them. However until you entertain Google and actually RMA your device you will not know what the resolution to your issue is, only what other's experiences were.
3) sched is an event-driven DVFS (Dynamic Voltage & Frequency Scaling) governor that biases the OPP (Operating Performance Points, essentially the tabulated frequency-and-voltage steps) higher or lower based on the workload. So when the load is low, it biases the OPP as low as possible, lowering the frequency *and* the voltage to be used per frequency tl;dr it offers the performance found from an interactive governor while saving power in comparison.
4) if you can not develop yourself, do not expect anyone else to actively develop for you on their own free time for free, especially with the gratitude you show. You called me a fanboy because I suggested you try replicating your problem on stock instead of on the beta, which is funny since all you run is stock now...
5) man I can see why they mocked you out, you went into the thread trying to call the developer lazy because he didn't develop what you wanted
Related
Hi,
I've noticed a huge performance difference between kernels and the roms they're used with.
For example:
I was using AOKP and Franco kernel and got around 20000 antutu points, I've switched to Carbon Rom (because of the build in pie control) and Franco kernel and only get around 13000 points, that's a huge difference.
As a test I've installed Matr1x-kenel on Carbon and get around 21000 points.
I really like Franco-kernel and all the tweaks it offers but don't like the huge drop in benchmarks, I know benchmarks are not a real representation of actual performance but it's still a big difference.
This also occurs in Quadrant and Geekbench.
So my question is why does this happen?
Aren't most roms supposed to be compatible with most kernels?
Thank you in advance.
Best regards.
I can't answer your question as to why that happens (no doubt someone else will) but you seriously should just stop bothering with benchmarks and use your own eyes and experiences as a measure of how good a kernel/ROM is. I doubt you could find a kernel which made the phone visibly slow or that affected usability so I don't see what your concern is tbh.
Thanks for your answer.
Yeah, I read that a lot on XDA, don't trust benchmarks...I understand that but they must have some meaning.
I mean, if not why do they exist or do people bother using them?
To be honest I don't really notice any real performance difference between most kernels I've tested.
Best regards
some roms include many optimizations(like skia/dalvik, krait optimizations, and others), while some dont. its not thekernel thats crapping out on you, its the rom.
---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------
Nigeldg said:
I can't answer your question as to why that happens (no doubt someone else will) butcomseriously should just stop bothering with benchmarks and use your own eyes and experiences as a measure of how good a kernel/ROM is. I doubt you could find a kernel which made the phone visibly slow or that affected usability so I don't see what your concern is tbh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your eyes can be decieved.. they can see whats happening in the ui for example, but you can not see the complex calculations that are being performed or how your cpu is really performing. you can have a slow device whos ui is quick.
OK, I can understand that not all roms are equal but why does changing the kernel have such a seamingly big impact?
If a rom is bad to begin with it should stay that way no matter what kernel you use with it.
Offcourse what do I know, I'm not a developer so my knowledge on the subject is limited.
I'm just trying to understand what's going on...
Best regards
Pihkal said:
OK, I can understand that not all roms are equal but why does changing the kernel have such a seamingly big impact?
If a rom is bad to begin with it should stay that way no matter what kernel you use with it.
Offcourse what do I know, I'm not a developer so my knowledge on the subject is limited.
I'm just trying to understand what's going on...
Best regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kernels vary too, and they impact greatly because they control just about everything in the phone, kinda like a brain. since the kernels themselves vary, one kernel might be better set up than another to deal with certain code from a certain rom. and then also, every phone reacts differently to each kernel(and roms to a point). thats why its recommended to try out different kernels, combos. only then you can find the perfect combo for you/your device. what works great for somebody, can be lousy for another.
OK, so if i understand correctly it boils down to this:
1. You can do benchmarks but don't base your opinion on just the benchmark scores.
2. Roms can vary greatly in optimizations and efficiency of coding.
3. Kernels can also vary greatly in optimizations and efficiency of coding.
4. There's no such thing as a "best for everyone rom/kernel combo".
5. Not all roms/kernels play equally nice with each other.
6. Play around with as many roms / kernels as possible and decide what works best for ME based on MY experience.
Thanks for the advice.
Best regards.
Its been well over a year since I ran any benchmark of any sort but I tested Franco and carbon because that's what I'm on and you mentioned low scores. I'm on Franco m3 with some tweaked settings and carbon nightly from 7-5. Antutu gave me 20636. I'm using stock CPU and GPU frequencies.
username8611 said:
Its been well over a year since I ran any benchmark of any sort but I tested Franco and carbon because that's what I'm on and you mentioned low scores. I'm on Franco m3 with some tweaked settings and carbon nightly from 7-5. Antutu gave me 20636. I'm using stock CPU and GPU frequencies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the nightly Carbon rom is more optimized?
I'm on Carbon 1.7 Stable and used Franco nightly 162 to test with.
When I benchmark I try to be as consistent as possible ie same temperature, performance governor, airplane mode etc.
I even cooled my Nexus in the freezer for some minutes to eliminate thermal throttling (yeah I know, watchout for condensation) but still got the same low scores.
Best regards.
Pihkal said:
Maybe the nightly Carbon rom is more optimized?
I'm on Carbon 1.7 Stable and used Franco nightly 162 to test with.
When I benchmark I try to be as consistent as possible ie same temperature, performance governor, airplane mode etc.
I even cooled my Nexus in the freezer for some minutes to eliminate thermal throttling (yeah I know, watchout for condensation) but still got the same low scores.
Best regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might be, I didn't do anything special. I left all my background apps running, didnt close anything in the recents, didn't cool the phone first. I just downloaded it and hit start. I use the interactive governor tweaked a bit, and I also tweaked the hotplug settings so it more readily onlines all 4 cores instead of waiting for some of the higher loads to trigger it.
username8611 said:
It might be, I didn't do anything special. I left all my background apps running, didnt close anything in the recents, didn't cool the phone first. I just downloaded it and hit start. I use the interactive governor tweaked a bit, and I also tweaked the hotplug settings so it more readily onlines all 4 cores instead of waiting for some of the higher loads to trigger it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I had to try it myself so I did a factory reset, cleared system,data and dalvik, installed latest carbon nightly.
With stock kernel I almost reached 21000 points, with franco I barely get 17000 points.
Very strange...
edit:
I stand corrected, did a second benchmark and am now getting 20880 points...
are you benchmarking with your cpu speed benchmarked set as highest and lowest cpu speed? you should. if you dont put the same cpu speed as highest and lowest then itll scale up and down. if it scales, you dont actually know what speed its testing and it gives you inconsistamt scores. you want the cpu speed to be the same throughout the test.
When I benchmark I set the governor to performance, this should keep the cpu running at maximum speed without scaling unless I'm mistaking...
Pihkal said:
When I benchmark I set the governor to performance, this should keep the cpu running at maximum speed without scaling unless I'm mistaking...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
meh, performance is the worst for benchmarking. its such a deceiving name. try either ondemand or interactive. set your cpu speed to be the same high and low.
simms22 said:
meh, performance is the worst for benchmarking. its such a deceiving name. try either ondemand or interactive. set your cpu speed to be the same high and low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Woow, that's a great tip, I now get 22003 points with Matr1x-kernel.
Pihkal said:
Woow, that's a great tip, I now get 22003 points with Matr1x-kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
better :highfive:
Hey guys,
I wanted to get everyone's feedback and experiences between the 3 kernels. I realize that every device behaves differently, but was curious about which ones people have tried, if they found any cool things about specific ones they really liked Or if you wanted to share your experience about the latest build.
Thanks!
Trinity and franco are about the same, but trinity>franco.
KTmanta is in a totally different league, it offers total customization and imo is the best kernel just because of that.
Franco and Trinity are all about performance where ktmanta is about battery optimizations and customizations.
I haven't used Franco or trinity in a while, I know they score higher in benchmarks if that means anything at all.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
I think everyone knows my preference, but they are all good kernels. Unfortunately this tablet is not on Franco's priority list and does not see much development. I dont believe it has a 4.3 compatible version yet and the last release has a serious bug that causes SoD for most people.
I like Trinity and KManta for different reasons (those stated above). If I need to squeeze out battery life, I go with KManta and tweak the settings accordingly. But for my day-to-day use, I like Trinity for its smoothness. Just my two cents
Awesome input guys! Real useful information.
How would you guys describe KTManta when just using the stock values? When you guys say "customization", do you guys mean the voltage settings and stuff like that? I've been flashing for years, but have never really understood how that worked. Which is funny, because I am an experienced PC overclocker. People say the concept is very similar. If KTManta's customization options were removed, would it be then comparable to Trinity? Or would it still be better without all the options?
Would you guys say Trinity still has decent battery life? Compared to KTManta at stock values?
Which one does Chrome work the best with?
Thanks!
Stock for stock Trinity is better because Morfic hardcodes overclock and undervolt values into the kernel and sets up all that stuff as his stock settings for the kernel. KTManta allows you to do those things and WAY more, but does not set them up as stock values because Ktoonsez prefers to keep the default settings for his kernel closer to the default settings of the stock AOSP kernel. So while Trinity may have -50mv undervolt to everything and a GPU overclock of 620MHz (I think that is the speed?), KTManta allows you to go +/- 200 mv to any frequency step for CPU or GPU that you feel like and also allows OC to 2.1GHz on CPU and 720MHz on the GPU if you want to, as well as RAM OC if you want to, and control of the scaling of every part of the chipset, again if you *want* to. But it doesnt set any custom stuff as default since everyone's device is unique and people want to do different things with it. That is why we have pre-made settings available from various users so that you can load custom values to try out without having to go through a bunch of experimentation yourself.
I don't know if the answer to my question is somewhere hidden between the thousands of threats but I did try to find it before(including Google and YouTube) and would be more than happy to get a reply.
I'm using custom Kernels since the Note 2 but was never able to put more time and afford in to understand how they actually work and always used the default settings.
Now I'm trying to get some knowledge on Kernel settings and what is safe to change and what not. I'm very interested on how a Kernel works and how I can boost both battery life and/or performance as well as the basic knowledge of the Kernel settings.
At the moment I'm trying to explore with trickster mod to kinda learn by doing but I always get really bad results in testing or no big changes when I change the governor. Also I'm a little afraid in messing up my phone and therefor don't change the settings much. What I know is that the same Kernel can have different outcomes on different Note 3's so please do not post just your Kernel and settings without explanation cause I would like to find the most suited Kernel and settings for my Note.
Sooo...Some help and explanations would be more than appreciated.
4aces said:
I don't know if the answer to my question is somewhere hidden between the thousands of threats but I did try to find it before(including Google and YouTube) and would be more than happy to get a reply.
I'm using custom Kernels since the Note 2 but was never able to put more time and afford in to understand how they actually work and always used the default settings.
Now I'm trying to get some knowledge on Kernel settings and what is safe to change and what not. I'm very interested on how a Kernel works and how I can boost both battery life and/or performance as well as the basic knowledge of the Kernel settings.
At the moment I'm trying to explore with trickster mod to kinda learn by doing but I always get really bad results in testing or no big changes when I change the governor. Also I'm a little afraid in messing up my phone and therefor don't change the settings much. What I know is that the same Kernel can have different outcomes on different Note 3's so please do not post just your Kernel and settings without explanation cause I would like to find the most suited Kernel and settings for my Note.
Sooo...Some help and explanations would be more than appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can give you a brief (easy) explanation with comparisons to try to get you to understand what a kernel is.
A kernel is your phone's driver (like a car) where it adjusts settings of the hardware and controls how each individual part interacts with each other.
There is a reason you take a car to get tuned up, and that is because a car can go berserk as there is no "maintaining force" - YOU or the person who tunes your car makes changes to the car to make sure it does not overheat, use less power per mile travelled, control how much windshield fluid is being released or how much torque force required to ensure the car does not snap XXXXXX when going at a speed of YYYYYY.
These options are beyond the manufacturer's decisions, and therefore when people flash a kernel you immediately trip KNOX (N9005). You can give your phone less power to process, more power to process (not recommended), speed up the CPU/limit the CPU, control governors on how the disk I/O (input/output) is being handled and/or control how much the phone will swap to it's virtual memory when it reaches no memory.
People think use a custom kernel! It saves you a ton of battery life!. This statement is partially wrong. You have to understand how a kernel reacts to your phone. Even though I know that lite kernels like Wootever's Custom N3 has the best battery life, this is because it has less tweaks and features that may boggle the user, and may allow for subsequent battery life extension compared to CivZ's SneakyKat or Imoseyon's LeanKernel. By inserting new tweaks into the kernel, you allow to have more "useful" features that may add to the "driver's knowledge" - Color tweaking, Fast charge over USB, CIFS support, all are extras that the kernel supports. To save power, developers remove the junk that the manufacturers added and added their own settings to make sure they get the result they would like, then they would share it to the public. However, people recommend custom kernels as they get more options when they flash it, as well as ridding of a lot of the stock settings that manufacturers love setting (default governors, lowest CPU frequency, etc)
CPU governors work by controlling how much speed is used at a given time, a good description of what each governor does is listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1736168
I/O governors (simply speaking) control how files and requests are being handled by the system, a good description of what each governors is listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=23616564&postcount=4. Good way to understand this is if you learnt programming and you learnt the Stack/Queue ADTs in a programming language, it describes things better when looking at the descriptions in the link above.
Adjusting Synapse/Trickster would not get you anywhere to getting the best battery/best performance out of the phone. You will have to experiment and check which kernel is best with your phone, according to your SOC_PVS value. SOC_PVS value is how Qualcomm decides your processor's manufacturing "rank" and if you compare a low rank to a high rank, you will see that you can use less power to operate a high ranked chip compared to a low ranked counterpart. As most governors rely heavily on how the code is handled by the system, you should always go for the kernel that fits your system, and setting configurations depending on your system's likings. By following other people's configurations you risk sporadic reboots and incompatibilities, as not all phones are built the same way.
Things you should not touch if you are afraid of destroying your phone: Overvolting and Overclocking, as these may fry your device if you don't know what you are doing.
Any questions - click reply to this, or else I won't see it!
nicholaschum said:
I can give you a brief (easy) explanation with comparisons to try to get you to understand what a kernel is.
A kernel is your phone's driver (like a car) where it adjusts settings of the hardware and controls how each individual part interacts with each other.
There is a reason you take a car to get tuned up, and that is because a car can go berserk as there is no "maintaining force" - YOU or the person who tunes your car makes changes to the car to make sure it does not overheat, use less power per mile travelled, control how much windshield fluid is being released or how much torque force required to ensure the car does not snap XXXXXX when going at a speed of YYYYYY.
These options are beyond the manufacturer's decisions, and therefore when people flash a kernel you immediately trip KNOX (N9005). You can give your phone less power to process, more power to process (not recommended), speed up the CPU/limit the CPU, control governors on how the disk I/O (input/output) is being handled and/or control how much the phone will swap to it's virtual memory when it reaches no memory.
People think use a custom kernel! It saves you a ton of battery life!. This statement is partially wrong. You have to understand how a kernel reacts to your phone. Even though I know that lite kernels like Wootever's Custom N3 has the best battery life, this is because it has less tweaks and features that may boggle the user, and may allow for subsequent battery life extension compared to CivZ's SneakyKat or Imoseyon's LeanKernel. By inserting new tweaks into the kernel, you allow to have more "useful" features that may add to the "driver's knowledge" - Color tweaking, Fast charge over USB, CIFS support, all are extras that the kernel supports. To save power, developers remove the junk that the manufacturers added and added their own settings to make sure they get the result they would like, then they would share it to the public. However, people recommend custom kernels as they get more options when they flash it, as well as ridding of a lot of the stock settings that manufacturers love setting (default governors, lowest CPU frequency, etc)
CPU governors work by controlling how much speed is used at a given time, a good description of what each governor does is listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1736168
I/O governors (simply speaking) control how files and requests are being handled by the system, a good description of what each governors is listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=23616564&postcount=4. Good way to understand this is if you learnt programming and you learnt the Stack/Queue ADTs in a programming language, it describes things better when looking at the descriptions in the link above.
Adjusting Synapse/Trickster would not get you anywhere to getting the best battery/best performance out of the phone. You will have to experiment and check which kernel is best with your phone, according to your SOC_PVS value. SOC_PVS value is how Qualcomm decides your processor's manufacturing "rank" and if you compare a low rank to a high rank, you will see that you can use less power to operate a high ranked chip compared to a low ranked counterpart. As most governors rely heavily on how the code is handled by the system, you should always go for the kernel that fits your system, and setting configurations depending on your system's likings. By following other people's configurations you risk sporadic reboots and incompatibilities, as not all phones are built the same way.
Things you should not touch if you are afraid of destroying your phone: Overvolting and Overclocking, as these may fry your device if you don't know what you are doing.
Any questions - click reply to this, or else I won't see it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all thank u very much for the detailed response. That was exactly what I was looking for. I will get back to you after going through the awesome links you were posting with some more knowledge
One thing which came straight in my mind was how do I know if I have a low or high rank from the soc_pvs_value and where do I find it?
Thanks again!
4aces said:
First of all thank u very much for the detailed response. That was exactly what I was looking for. I will get back to you after going through the awesome links you were posting with some more knowledge
One thing which came straight in my mind was how do I know if I have a low or high rank from the soc_pvs_value and where do I find it?
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anytime
You can either install Synapse (If your Kernel supports it, and click on the button under CPU), or check here:
Code:
/sys/devices/system/soc/soc0/soc_pvs
The higher your number, the better.
nicholaschum said:
Anytime
You can either install Synapse (If your Kernel supports it, and click on the button under CPU), or check here:
Code:
/sys/devices/system/soc/soc0/soc_pvs
The higher your number, the better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ran out of "thanks" so u get it tomorrow. But thanks again. One more thing:
How do I know if I have a high number/between which numbers does the value wary? My soc_pvs is 3.
4aces said:
I ran out of "thanks" so u get it tomorrow. But thanks again. One more thing:
How do I know if I have a high number/between which numbers does the value wary? My soc_pvs is 3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got a rather good number.
The lowest is 0, and the highest is 6. I have 2 but I don't undervolt so this is not an issue
nicholaschum said:
You got a rather good number.
The lowest is 0, and the highest is 6. I have 2 but I don't undervolt so this is not an issue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't thank u enough!!! Now I will be off to some reading and testing
nicholaschum said:
You got a rather good number.
The lowest is 0, and the highest is 6. I have 2 but I don't undervolt so this is not an issue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aaand one more question.
What is the difference in tcp congestion control (cubic/reno) and what does it change?
4aces said:
Aaand one more question.
What is the difference in tcp congestion control (cubic/reno) and what does it change?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That seems more of a Trickster Mod specific tweak.
It is more of a network speed tweak which you can read here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_avoidance_algorithm
In simple words, you have to understand what Network Congestion is, and how queues affect how much data is being transmitted. When too much data is being carried in a link or a node, the quality of service would deteriorate. To do Congestion control, it affects how much data is being transmitted through each node systematically. This is rather complicated to explain using simple terms as this is a mathematical formula which processes how much data is being transmitted.
Cubic is used by many default linux kernels. Like CPU governors, these are data transmission governors, and it is best if you use the one better for your TCP/IP connection (Carrier or Wifi)
nicholaschum said:
That seems more of a Trickster Mod specific tweak.
It is more of a network speed tweak which you can read here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_avoidance_algorithm
In simple words, you have to understand what Network Congestion is, and how queues affect how much data is being transmitted. When too much data is being carried in a link or a node, the quality of service would deteriorate. To do Congestion control, it affects how much data is being transmitted through each node systematically. This is rather complicated to explain using simple terms as this is a mathematical formula which processes how much data is being transmitted.
Cubic is used by many default linux kernels. Like CPU governors, these are data transmission governors, and it is best if you use the one better for your TCP/IP connection (Carrier or Wifi)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just read the answer in the link u posted. Stupid me.
Sorry for taking up your time.
nicholaschum said:
That seems more of a Trickster Mod specific tweak.
It is more of a network speed tweak which you can read here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_avoidance_algorithm
In simple words, you have to understand what Network Congestion is, and how queues affect how much data is being transmitted. When too much data is being carried in a link or a node, the quality of service would deteriorate. To do Congestion control, it affects how much data is being transmitted through each node systematically. This is rather complicated to explain using simple terms as this is a mathematical formula which processes how much data is being transmitted.
Cubic is used by many default linux kernels. Like CPU governors, these are data transmission governors, and it is best if you use the one better for your TCP/IP connection (Carrier or Wifi)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have another question. If I want to oc or uv is there any script I have to use or can I just apply/test right away?
4aces said:
I have another question. If I want to oc or uv is there any script I have to use or can I just apply/test right away?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just use the main interface of either Trickster or Synapse. I use Synapse personally as my kernel provides the best interface on Synapse.
nicholaschum said:
Just use the main interface of either Trickster or Synapse. I use Synapse personally as my kernel provides the best interface on Synapse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I found out so far is that the device runs smoother on performance based governors with cfq or sio scheduler. The best results I had so far was on lean kernel and ael kernel. I'm using the last at the moment cause it has a lot of settings to play with
But it seems that I'm still miles away from finding the best settings.
4aces said:
What I found out so far is that my device reacts not good on performance based governors & schedulers. The best results I had so far was on lean kernel and ael kernel. I'm using the last at the moment cause it has a lot of settings to play with
But it seems that I'm still miles away from finding the best settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could give you some recommendations that would work well decently with 2-3 PVS valued processors.
Interactive Governor
No OC, No UV.
I/O schedulers Internal: cfq 512kb
I/O schedulers External: cfq 512kb
Dynamic Fsync Enabled
PowerSuspend driver enabled
Mdnie enabled, 0.39%
FastCharge Enabled
GPU Governor: Simple Ondemand 450MHz
I use CivZ's SneakyKat but Wootever's Custom N3 has the best battery life. If you want features you should play with CivZ's, if you like 6h screen on then you should play with Wootever.
You don't have to follow these values, but I spent days restarting my phone finding the best "average" configuration for devices ranging in my state. I found that Intellidemand didn't do so well and Interactive prevented any sporadic reboots that I got while on Intellidemand. Also read aheads of above 512kb doesn't show much speed enhancements. Synapse is great as it tells you whether your boot is successful or not, and now all my boots get Completed.
Notice: Do not soft reboot when configuring Kernels, Kernels don't get loaded properly/doesn't get reset properly so use Full reboot when configuring
cpu lock
I tried gaming with different kernels and governors and encountered a strange issue. Especially in candy crush after playing for a while the cpu locks (sometimes on 14k sometimes 12k). Reboot fixes it but I'm still curious why it locks.
@nicholaschum any idea?
Btw. my favorite settings so far are intellidemand with deadline gr8 performance and battery life is OK.
4aces said:
I tried gaming with different kernels and governors and encountered a strange issue. Especially in candy crush after playing for a while the cpu locks (sometimes on 14k sometimes 12k). Reboot fixes it but I'm still curious why it locks.
@nicholaschum any idea?
Btw. my favorite settings so far are intellidemand with deadline gr8 performance and battery life is OK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a bit weird, did you have powersaving turned on? But I assume it's off.
I think you should disable your kernel mod application in Application Manager and test it out, if it's a problem with Synapse/Trickster then one setting is a bit problematic.
nicholaschum said:
That's a bit weird, did you have powersaving turned on? But I assume it's off.
I think you should disable your kernel mod application in Application Manager and test it out, if it's a problem with Synapse/Trickster then one setting is a bit problematic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope that's why it's strange. Even got it after clean flash without setting/installing any Kernel related apps.
Tested other games and they work fine so I deleted candy crush and so far no cpu lock. No idea why, that's why I was curious
4aces said:
Nope that's why it's strange. Even got it after clean flash without setting/installing any Kernel related apps.
Tested other games and they work fine so I deleted candy crush and so far no cpu lock. No idea why, that's why I was curious
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't play Candy Crush so I wouldn't know..haha
nicholaschum said:
I don't play Candy Crush so I wouldn't know..haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Me neither from now on... (my kids will be sad though) Still can't really belive the game caused it
Is there any kernel that allows one to overclock the 6p's GPU and/or RAM? I know you can overclock both CPU clusters so I thought this might be possible as well.
Also, I read awhile ago that undervolting was not possible on the 6p. Does this still hold true?
Thanks
Would still love to know if this is possible. I know that the Snapdragon810 version 2.1 is inside the 6p, which has a stock GPU clock of 630mhz but unfortunately it's onlyclocked to 600mhz.
michaelearth said:
Is there any kernel that allows one to overclock the 6p's GPU and/or RAM? I know you can overclock both CPU clusters so I thought this might be possible as well.
Also, I read awhile ago that undervolting was not possible on the 6p. Does this still hold true?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The max frequency for the GPU is at 600 mHz. And speaking based on my own usage (as I have no data about other uses), it's very rare for the phone to reach that frequency, even when doing gpu-intensive tasks like gaming. So I think that value would suffice for the heaviest graphical tasks you'd throw at it. That said I've tried almost every kernel out there-AK, Kylo, Franco, Elemental, Googymax, Lean, Zigzag, and God's (back in the day) and have never seen a GPU value higher than 600 mHz so I guess that's the max limit which the GPU reaches as far as kernel tweaking goes.
As for RAM, I don't think there's such thing as "overclocking" it, though some custom Kernels provide customization for ZRAM, Low Memory killers, Virtual memory options, etc. If you wish to maximize the available RAM and memory performance then disabling ZRAM and tweaking the other values will be the way to go.
As for undervolting, I could gather from past reading that the values are only present on most kernel tweaking apps for visibility purposes. Mainly for People to know the stock voltages of the phone. I don't think it can be tweaked, and in the first place tweaking it is not ideal due to the big.Little nature of the SD 810.
Overall, my personal opinion is that even if such extreme customization (GPU and RAM, undervolting) is possible I'm afraid it won't be practical. The overall custom kernel development the phone enjoys is already top notch, and already pushes the boundaries of performance and battery life. (thanks to our Kernel Devs) Suffice to say we are currently in kernel tweaking heaven already.
Hello XDA members,
I have looked around on the internet and XDA and I couldn't find a satisfactory answer to my question so here I am.
1. What is the function of Kernel?
2. What is the advantage of custom kernel over stock?
3. Is Kernel something that I just install and forget? or do I have to make edits. If edits then what sorts?
I am using latest TWRP, Pixel Exp with magisk. About to try the xposed beta. Thought get more in depth to get max out of my device.
Thank you all in advance.
1. A kernel is the "core" of the OS, a piece of code that acts as a mediator between the hardware and software in your phone. It decides how your apps can use the hardware, it manages your CPU's and GPU's clock speeds (lowering them in low usage and raising for resource - intensive apps) and manages the voltages your components operate on. It also reserves RAM space for apps, decides on which CPU cores an app will run, etc. Everything you do, all input sensors, everything your apps do, and all your phone's output information goes through the kernel.
2. Custom kernels are customised kernels, tweaked to the liking of whoever created them. The benefit of custom kernels is that they are usually better optimised, they handle and distribute your phone's resources better than the stock kernel, which can give you better battery life and performance. It can also be changed to allow overclocking, meaning higher CPU or GPU clock speeds. Paranoid Android roms use a kernel that is extremely well-optimised for Qualcomm's chipsets, probably the best kernel for our device.
3. As for edits, some kernels are made to be better optimised for your device, providing a performance/battery life improvements out-of-the-box. Most kernels come with an app, giving the user control over how their kernel behaves by allowing manual tweaks, where you can raise/lower CPU and GPU clock speeds yourself. They also add some functions, things you couldn't change on a stock kernel, and some add extra CPU governors to choose from. Governors are behaviour models for your phone's CPU, they define how your CPU acts, how fast it raises clock speed under load, and how fast it lowers it back when high processing power is no longer needed. For example "performance" governor will always keep all cores at a maximum clock speed (which draws loads of energy), while "powersave" will reduce clock speeds to a minimum. Custom kernels usually add custom made governors that aim for performance, battery life, or balance of the two.
There are many more tweaks to the kernel, like memory-management, which tells the kernel when to kill bacground apps, and how many apps can remain open in background (in RAM) before getting killed.
As for if you need to change stuff in the kernel, most of the time they come preset to the values the kernel creator thinks is best, so probably no, but you sure can benefit from researching the tweaks and creating custom profiles if you need to squeeze maximum battery life from your phone when your battery is almost dead, or you want to play some intensive games and need every bit of power your phone can give you.
In my opinion, Moto G5 plus has a pretty decently tweaked kernel, but since it heats up very little and has great battery life it has some overclocking potential. It should probably be able to handle a boost to 2.2GHz like on Snapdragon 626, which seems exactly the same as 625 just with a higher clock speed.
bazinga137 said:
1. A kernel is the "core" of the OS, a piece of code that acts as a mediator between the hardware and software in your phone. It decides how your apps can use the hardware, it manages your CPU's and GPU's clock speeds (lowering them in low usage and raising for resource - intensive apps) and manages the voltages your components operate on. It also reserves RAM space for apps, decides on which CPU cores an app will run, etc. Everything you do, all input sensors, everything your apps do, and all your phone's output information goes through the kernel.
2. Custom kernels are customised kernels, tweaked to the liking of whoever created them. The benefit of custom kernels is that they are usually better optimised, they handle and distribute your phone's resources better than the stock kernel, which can give you better battery life and performance. It can also be changed to allow overclocking, meaning higher CPU or GPU clock speeds. Paranoid Android roms use a kernel that is extremely well-optimised for Qualcomm's chipsets, probably the best kernel for our device.
3. As for edits, some kernels are made to be better optimised for your device, providing a performance/battery life improvements out-of-the-box. Most kernels come with an app, giving the user control over how their kernel behaves by allowing manual tweaks, where you can raise/lower CPU and GPU clock speeds yourself. They also add some functions, things you couldn't change on a stock kernel, and some add extra CPU governors to choose from. Governors are behaviour models for your phone's CPU, they define how your CPU acts, how fast it raises clock speed under load, and how fast it lowers it back when high processing power is no longer needed. For example "performance" governor will always keep all cores at a maximum clock speed (which draws loads of energy), while "powersave" will reduce clock speeds to a minimum. Custom kernels usually add custom made governors that aim for performance, battery life, or balance of the two.
There are many more tweaks to the kernel, like memory-management, which tells the kernel when to kill bacground apps, and how many apps can remain open in background (in RAM) before getting killed.
As for if you need to change stuff in the kernel, most of the time they come preset to the values the kernel creator thinks is best, so probably no, but you sure can benefit from researching the tweaks and creating custom profiles if you need to squeeze maximum battery life from your phone when your battery is almost dead, or you want to play some intensive games and need every bit of power your phone can give you.
In my opinion, Moto G5 plus has a pretty decently tweaked kernel, but since it heats up very little and has great battery life it has some overclocking potential. It should probably be able to handle a boost to 2.2GHz like on Snapdragon 626, which seems exactly the same as 625 just with a higher clock speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow.
Thanks for such a detailed reply.
I will download alize and see where it takes me
Thanks again.