Database Users

[Q] Performance management- Gov and I/O

Hi,
Can anyone direct me to some info on altering CPU settings on my N10?
I've recently rooted and flashed the latest AOKP ROM and am interested in the performance control.
The current max is set to 1700Mhz which, of course, is the rated value for the CPU. Will I do any damage by increasing it and what effects do changing the voltage setting have?
Also, is there a guide to using Governor and IO schedulers?
Thanks in advance.

Pharmbob said:
Hi,
Can anyone direct me to some info on altering CPU settings on my N10?
I've recently rooted and flashed the latest AOKP ROM and am interested in the performance control.
The current max is set to 1700Mhz which, of course, is the rated value for the CPU. Will I do any damage by increasing it and what effects do changing the voltage setting have?
Also, is there a guide to using Governor and IO schedulers?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I have to say that I haven't come across any device specific tutorials for governors or schedulers, and I would love to see someone put one together for the N10. My understanding is that the stock MHz value is purposely set on the slightly lower side to prevent any possibility of electrical issues. In regards to the voltage, lowering it may cause loss of display due to a lack of power and a major problem with increasing voltages is usually thermal throttling from high CPU temperatures.
But if you're interested in more governor and over clocking capabilities you should look at the KTManta kernel, I'm running it right now. You should be able to relatively safely over clock up to 1800MHz without crazy effects, but much more than that and you'll significantly reduce the tablet life.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app

Huggogguh said:
Well I have to say that I haven't come across any device specific tutorials for governors or schedulers, and I would love to see someone put one together for the N10. My understanding is that the stock MHz value is purposely set on the slightly lower side to prevent any possibility of electrical issues. In regards to the voltage, lowering it may cause loss of display due to a lack of power and a major problem with increasing voltages is usually thermal throttling from high CPU temperatures.
But if you're interested in more governor and over clocking capabilities you should look at the KTManta kernel, I'm running it right now. You should be able to relatively safely over clock up to 1800MHz without crazy effects, but much more than that and you'll significantly reduce the tablet life.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does overclocking to 1800MHz make much of a difference to performance?

I've just flashed the KTMANTA kernel and I am impressed.
Would it be detrimental to increase the GPU Max?

Pharmbob said:
I've just flashed the KTMANTA kernel and I am impressed.
Would it be detrimental to increase the GPU Max?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im not on AOKP ROM so i dont know how the CPU performance is optimized but on original rom the CPU speed rarely/never gets over
1000mhz
so overclocking to 1800mhz is pointless.
you need to upper the boost pulse instead

Patrik G said:
im not on AOKP ROM so i dont know how the CPU performance is optimized but on original rom the CPU speed rarely/never gets over
1000mhz
so overclocking to 1800mhz is pointless.
you need to upper the boost pulse instead
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what does the boost pulse do?

Pharmbob said:
And what does the boost pulse do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it will boost the CPU speed higher when its under load
change this settings (leave the rest at default) in KTweakerT and the N10 will fly
CPU Governor: pegasusq
I/O Scheduler: ROW
under "Governor Adjustmensts" change these:
boostpulse_value: 1700
up_threshold: 40
up_threshold_at_min_freq: 20
Under Extras:
to keep your saved settings when the screen i off you will need to change the "Screen off profile Mhz" to something else than the Defualt setting
change it to 100mhz
also go in under the "Thermal Throttle Control" (settings for kids)
change these values to:
CPU start Throttle: 100
CPU Stop Throttle: 99
Memory Start Throttle: 100
Memory Stop Throttle: 99
that is the only way to get rid of the Throttling control.
one note is when you play games lock the min/max mhz to the same speed for an example (MIN 1500mhz/MAX 1500mhz)
its the up/down CPU speeds changes that causes it to lag
for movies lock the min/max speed at 800mhz and your blu ray movies will play without microstutter
also use BS player that has the fastest HW decoding
NOW Enjoy your Nexus 10 as it was ment to be used

Patrik G said:
it will boost the CPU speed higher when its under load
change this settings (leave the rest at default) in KTweakerT and the N10 will fly
CPU Governor: pegasusq
I/O Scheduler: ROW
under "Governor Adjustmensts" change these:
boostpulse_value: 1700
up_threshold: 40
up_threshold_at_min_freq: 20
Under Extras:
to keep your saved settings when the screen i off you will need to change the "Screen off profile Mhz" to something else than the Defualt setting
change it to 100mhz
also go in under the "Thermal Throttle Control" (settings for kids)
change these values to:
CPU start Throttle: 100
CPU Stop Throttle: 99
Memory Start Throttle: 100
Memory Stop Throttle: 99
that is the only way to get rid of the Throttling control.
one note is when you play games lock the min/max mhz to the same speed for an example (MIN 1500mhz/MAX 1500mhz)
its the up/down CPU speeds changes that causes it to lag
for movies lock the min/max speed at 800mhz and your blu ray movies will play without microstutter
also use BS player that has the fastest HW decoding
NOW Enjoy your Nexus 10 as it was ment to be used
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info, I'm apprehensive about altering the thermal settings though. Will letting the processor get as hot as 100 degrees not reduce the life of the chip?

Pharmbob said:
Will letting the processor get as hot as 100 degrees not reduce the life of the chip?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure if it would
i have already measured the CPU temp without the back case and its nowhere near 100 degrees
50 is more true so you are safe even without the Throttling control.
the thermal throttling control isnt measuring temps it only guess them.

Patrik G said:
it will boost the CPU speed higher when its under load
change this settings (leave the rest at default) in KTweakerT and the N10 will fly
CPU Governor: pegasusq
I/O Scheduler: ROW
under "Governor Adjustmensts" change these:
boostpulse_value: 1700
up_threshold: 40
up_threshold_at_min_freq: 20
Under Extras:
to keep your saved settings when the screen i off you will need to change the "Screen off profile Mhz" to something else than the Defualt setting
change it to 100mhz
also go in under the "Thermal Throttle Control" (settings for kids)
change these values to:
CPU start Throttle: 100
CPU Stop Throttle: 99
Memory Start Throttle: 100
Memory Stop Throttle: 99
that is the only way to get rid of the Throttling control.
one note is when you play games lock the min/max mhz to the same speed for an example (MIN 1500mhz/MAX 1500mhz)
its the up/down CPU speeds changes that causes it to lag
for movies lock the min/max speed at 800mhz and your blu ray movies will play without microstutter
also use BS player that has the fastest HW decoding
NOW Enjoy your Nexus 10 as it was ment to be used
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for being such a noob but this is my first android device. I installed the kt room and the tweaker it all works fine. Bit whem i changed the room all my stift dissapeard. I vacker up my last rom can i just switch to that and backup with titan?
Btw it improved gta gaming very much. Bit what happens IF i always have the min/max on 1500?
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app

p0xis said:
Bit what happens IF i always have the min/max on 1500?
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the tablet will explode after 30 minutes.
its the new Self destruction detection from samsung.

[Q] What do you do against overheating/lag during gaming?

As we all know, the Snapdragon 810 processor in our OnePlus 2 phones is prone to overheat, especially during heavy tasks such as gaming. With the stock kernel (which probably most of you are using) this leads to the A57 cores being partially or fully shut down and the display - which generates additional heat - being dimmed in order for the phone to keep a healthy temperature (healthy for both its components and the hands that are holding it.) This, in turn, leads to lag when playing especially demanding games. Which in turn leads to a frustrated user.
With root access, it's possible to use custom kernels and/or custom thermal throttling profiles in order to (at least partially) circumvent these issues, by throttling the CPU frequency and/or limiting the number of active cores, using different schedulers and governors, and by applying thermal profiles that allow the phone to get hotter (in order to keep higher CPU frequencies for a longer duration).
Since I bought the OPT, I was playing a very power hungry game - Republique - which, at its highest graphics quality setting, pushes the phone to its limits. I quickly switched from the stock kernel to the Boeffla kernel and started experimenting with schedulers, governors, hotplugging settings, CPU/GPU frequencies and thermal profiles, but nothing I have done so far makes it possible to play the game for more than 15-20 minutes before some kind of throttling / heat control sets in and the game starts lagging.
I tried limiting both CPU clusters to only 2 cores while maintaining higher frequencies, I tried throttling the frequencies and keeping all 8 cores active, and I tried all kinds of solutions in-between with anything from 4-8 cores active and frequencies anywhere between 60% and 100%. I also tried the various thermal profiles that the kernel offers. But whatever I did, the game was either lagging right from the start, or running smoothly for about 15 minutes before the screen was dimmed and the CPU was throttled, leading to a laggy experience.
So my question is, what do you guys do to keep the OnePlus 2 from overheating during gaming, while at the same time maintaining a lag-free experience? I don't seem to get anywhere with anything I try, so I'd be extremely grateful for some useful input.

vonotny said:
As we all know, the Snapdragon 810 processor in our OnePlus 2 phones is prone to overheat, especially during heavy tasks such as gaming. With the stock kernel (which probably most of you are using) this leads to the A57 cores being partially or fully shut down and the display - which generates additional heat - being dimmed in order for the phone to keep a healthy temperature (healthy for both its components and the hands that are holding it.) This, in turn, leads to lag when playing especially demanding games. Which in turn leads to a frustrated user.
With root access, it's possible to use custom kernels and/or custom thermal throttling profiles in order to (at least partially) circumvent these issues, by throttling the CPU frequency and/or limiting the number of active cores, using different schedulers and governors, and by applying thermal profiles that allow the phone to get hotter (in order to keep higher CPU frequencies for a longer duration).
Since I bought the OPT, I was playing a very power hungry game - Republique - which, at its highest graphics quality setting, pushes the phone to its limits. I quickly switched from the stock kernel to the Boeffla kernel and started experimenting with schedulers, governors, hotplugging settings, CPU/GPU frequencies and thermal profiles, but nothing I have done so far makes it possible to play the game for more than 15-20 minutes before some kind of throttling / heat control sets in and the game starts lagging.
I tried limiting both CPU clusters to only 2 cores while maintaining higher frequencies, I tried throttling the frequencies and keeping all 8 cores active, and I tried all kinds of solutions in-between with anything from 4-8 cores active and frequencies anywhere between 60% and 100%. I also tried the various thermal profiles that the kernel offers. But whatever I did, the game was either lagging right from the start, or running smoothly for about 15 minutes before the screen was dimmed and the CPU was throttled, leading to a laggy experience.
So my question is, what do you guys do to keep the OnePlus 2 from overheating during gaming, while at the same time maintaining a lag-free experience? I don't seem to get anywhere with anything I try, so I'd be extremely grateful for some useful input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the phones throttle while gaming. I use thermal extreme with boeffla kernel. And use 2 a53 at 1,3ghz and 2-4 a57 at 1,4ghz and I modified the throttle file and it underclock to 1,2ghz when it gets hot but it doesn't happen if you don't play longer than 30minutes and it doesn't lag either. You can leave stock settings but if course it will get hot quicker. Also with thermal hotplugged or something like that, I used it all cores online all the time at full speed and it doesn't throttle for a long time, so I don't know what overheating are you talking about. My nexus 5 throttle faster and disable 2 of 4 cores and leave the other 2 at half speed, and our processor overheats?. Oneplus throttle the device a lot because of the rumors, fortunately we can change that. Try what I said, cheers.
Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

Migdilu said:
All the phones throttle while gaming. I use thermal extreme with boeffla kernel. And use 2 a53 at 1,3ghz and 2-4 a57 at 1,4ghz and I modified the throttle file and it underclock to 1,2ghz when it gets hot but it doesn't happen if you don't play longer than 30minutes and it doesn't lag either. You can leave stock settings but if course it will get hot quicker. Also with thermal hotplugged or something like that, I used it all cores online all the time at full speed and it doesn't throttle for a long time, so I don't know what overheating are you talking about. My nexus 5 throttle faster and disable 2 of 4 cores and leave the other 2 at half speed, and our processor overheats?. Oneplus throttle the device a lot because of the rumors, fortunately we can change that. Try what I said, cheers.
Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip with thermal extreme! The implementation in the latest Boeffla kernel v1.1 beta1 seem to do a very good job of not letting the phone get too hot while at the same time not throttling the CPU too much. Today, the performance was stable for almost 30 minutes of gaming, and when I checked the CPU stats I saw that all cores were still active (2x A53 + 4x A57), and only throttled to 960 MHz. This still delivered enough performance. (I started the game with both CPU clusters at 1.2 GHz, so this also seemed to help with keeping the phone at an acceptable temperature. I'm sure it would've gotten much hotter much quicker at higher CPU frequencies.)
I have to admit though, I was playing inside in an unlit room and thus the screen wasn't at max. brightness. We'll see how it will perform during my next work break when I have to make the screen much brighter.

vonotny said:
Thanks for the tip with thermal extreme! The implementation in the latest Boeffla kernel v1.1 beta1 seem to do a very good job of not letting the phone get too hot while at the same time not throttling the CPU too much. Today, the performance was stable for almost 30 minutes of gaming, and when I checked the CPU stats I saw that all cores were still active (2x A53 + 4x A57), and only throttled to 960 MHz. This still delivered enough performance. (I started the game with both CPU clusters at 1.2 GHz, so this also seemed to help with keeping the phone at an acceptable temperature. I'm sure it would've gotten much hotter much quicker at higher CPU frequencies.)
I have to admit though, I was playing inside in an unlit room and thus the screen wasn't at max. brightness. We'll see how it will perform during my next work break when I have to make the screen much brighter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it throttle to 960mhz? for me never reach 1,2ghz. Playing real Racing for 30min it stays at 1,2ghz. And with thermal hotplugged (all cores enabled, all at stock freq gpu too) it doesnt throttle for 30 min, gpu only sometimes to 510mhz, i played 30 minutes and it didnt throttle, i dont know when it was going to throttle because i stop playing. But also, gaming with all cores and no throttling eats the battery.

Migdilu said:
Does it throttle to 960mhz? for me never reach 1,2ghz. Playing real Racing for 30min it stays at 1,2ghz. And with thermal hotplugged (all cores enabled, all at stock freq gpu too) it doesnt throttle for 30 min, gpu only sometimes to 510mhz, i played 30 minutes and it didnt throttle, i dont know when it was going to throttle because i stop playing. But also, gaming with all cores and no throttling eats the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it throttled to 960 MHz because the game I'm currently playing (République) is pretty resource hungry.

Thermal throttling temp/performance test

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible if you are not careful and fry your phone!
Updates and all the newest information:
Update: Disabling core control disables hotplug management altogether. If the big cluster is offline, turning core control off will cause the bigs to remain offline forever. Likewise, if the bigs are online and you turn core control off, then the bigs will never shut off. Throttling temps are not affected by core control.
As suspected, msm_thermal seems to not do anything on the Nexus 5X.
This was tested with elemental kernel and EXkernel manager. I don't know how this works on other kernels.
I ran a benchmark with BOTH msm_thermal and core control disabled and the CPU still throttled and shut off at the values specified in the thermal-engine.
That means that msm_thermal most likely doesn't do a thing on the Nexus 5X update: msm_thermal seems to be overriding the below values with "infinite". Additionally, all that core control does, as long as it is enabled, is overriding these two lines in the thermal engine:
Code:
[CPU4_HOTPLUG_MONITOR]
thresholds 41000
thresholds_clr 39000
and the same for CPU5.
update, important: For anyone not wanting to take (larger) risks but still wants to utilize the big cluster more: I attached a modified thermal-engine at the bottom of this post. Rename it from "conf.txt" to ".conf", place it under "/system/ect" and overwrite (backup first) the existing file. Set permissions to "rw- r-- r--" then reboot.
This setting uses the big cluster at max high speeds until shortly before the small cluster would be throttled. The sustained performance under medium load will be much better, but the phone will heat up faster. However, the maximum phone temperature will not increase.
Note: This is not the best setting for gaming or other heavy load. Your phone will throttle the little cluster a lot sooner. This will also drain your battery faster, but gives a better performance.
I ran some quick tests, changing the values
Code:
[PID-BIG_CLUSTER_management]
set_point 39000
set_point_clr 37000
immediatly affects the throttling temperature of the big cluster, no reboot required a reboot is required. Simply changing the temp does not affect the behavior of the PID algorithm, it just raises the starting threshold. The same goes for little cluster and GPU.
update: new information regarding thermal limits of Moto X/MI4C/Nexus 5X
update, exciting!: As @GoldGanja pointed out in this post, we might be able to raise the real throttle temperature of the big cluster
The original test for sustained frequency of the big cluster may be inaccurate, because the thermal management temp (still not sure which one it is) could have been higher/lower update: outdated, throttling temperature does not effect how long the big cluster is utilized, see below for details
It seems that setting the thermal limit actually only changes the temperature at which the big cluster is shut off. It doesn't affect the frequency curve AT ALL. I made some tests in which I raised the thermal limit after the big cluster was throttled down, and it did not increase its frequency again. It's hard to take a screenshot of this, though. The only temperature trepn can monitor is core CPU temp. However, another temperature is responsible for thermal management.
The thermal management of the big cluster looks someting like this:
Code:
if Temp below *whatever* use burst to the maximum
else go offline (or be forced to idle while grilling the phone)
This means a big cluster being forcefully kept alive by a high thermal limit does nothing except for drawing lots of power and raising the temperature.
update: under heavy load the big cluster does indeed throttle it's clock to something inbetween 1.84-0.63GHz shortly before it goes into idle mode (or offline, depending on the t limit)
The only time a big core @ 0.63GHz is utilized, is when the small core is at or below 0.96GHz. But only if the temperature is not too high (not sure how high, cannot measure this with sufficient accuracy). So @ 0.63GHz the big cluster is useless and should go offline.
The best temperature for sustained performance is 44°C. This ensures that the big cluster is used to its full potential as long as possible, while also making sure it is taken offline when it is no longer being used.
update: under medium load (e.g. browsing for some time), the big cluster will still sit unused at 0.63GHz for considerable amounts of time. To prevent this, a thermal limit of 42°C is needed. However, if the phone is sufficiently cool, a limit as low as this will take the big cluster offline even though it could still be used for some time. It's a tradeoff, I still recommend 44°C, though.
detailed and older tests below:
I ran some quick tests to see how the throttling temp limit affects performance. Tests were run on PureNexus 05/06/16 and Elemental 1.14 with GhostPepper profile. I used "Trepn Profiler" to record the data.
Instead of running a benchmark, I chose the more realistic ultimate stress test*:
*Update: As it turns out, Navigon is a really badly optimized app. Zooming the map while using GPS generates more heat than CPU benchmarks. So this test is actually a stress test.
entered a distant destination into Navigon (GPS) update: just zooming the map is enough, no need to set a destination
streamed internet radio with Xiialive and using its equalizer (Wi-Fi used for data, LTE active)
zoomed in and out on the map for about 6 minutes
It's unlikely that anyone zooms in and out of the map (update: see above, don't do this. It's the ultimate thermal stress test!) like a madman as I did, but the ambient temperature was only 24°C. So I believe at 30+°C this could actually happen while navigating, even without the constant zooming.
The first image shows the data for a limit of 46°C.
The big cluster (CPU6) is shut off at about the minute mark. After around three minutes, the small cluster (CPU1) throttles down to 960MHz and stays at this frequency. The zooming felt significantly more sluggish, but everything still worked. Just a bit slower.
The core temperature settled at just around 60°C.
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Now at a limit of 55°C things start to get interesting.
At this limit the big cluster (CPU6) is never shut down and always runs at 630MHz. After two minutes the core temperature reached 73°C, causing the small cluster (CPU1) to occasionally drop down to 500MHz!
Whenever the frequency of the small cluster dropped that low, the screen and sound froze for a few seconds. The phone was almost unusable. Every touch needed a few seconds to cause a reaction.
Update: The idling big cluster tampers with the CPU load since it is the average load. CPU load on the small cluster is not lower.
tl;dr
Do NOT set the throttling limit above 46°C! It will actually decrease performance.
Update: 44°C is the optimum

More tests!
Alright, time for some more tests:
I did three rounds using the app "stability test" for benschmarking.
First round with a cool phone so it can utilize its big cluster @ 1.82GHz.
Second round with the phone so hot that it throttles the big cluster to it's minimum frequency (thermal limit 55°C (or higher), disabling core control and enabling msm_thermal also causes this thermal behavior).
Third round with the phone so hot that the big cluster goes offline(thermal limit 46°C).
Update: I accidentally switched the description for 46°C/55°C around. Now it is coherent with the spreadsheet.
The first interesting thing to note is the CPU score. For both the (fastest) single and multi core total score, it doesn't actually matter if the big cluster is @ 0.63GHz or offline. This leads me to believe that, as soon as the big cluster is thermal throttled to 0.63GHz, it is actually no longer utilized for any task*. It is idle while still drawing power and heating up the phone, a lot actually (see first post, 10°C higher average temps).
The second interesting thing is the "sustained performance". While the big core is online for a longer time, the little core is throttled sooner.
At the end I also tested at which thermal limit the observed behavior kicks in, and found it to be 49°C. I did this using the "navigation zooming" method from the first post. Using GPS and zooming an the map in the app "Navigon" generates more heat than benchmarks.
*Update: It seems there are some weird inconsistencies regarding the big cluster. Sometimes it is used at the throttled 0.63GHz but most of the time it is not. Update: below.
Update2: When thermal throttled, the big cluster is on standby most of the time. However, on rare occasion it was the other way around and the small one was on standby. In this case the single CPU score increased again. I'm not sure what triggers this since most of the (~90%) time when the big cluster is throttled to 0.63GHz it is indeed idling. Update: below.
Update3: After more testing it seems 44°C is the safe temperature.
Update4: More tests have shown 44°C to be the best limit. While at 49°C the big core is still taken offline after some time, it is useless at 0.63GHz. So our target should be to take it offline as soon as it reaches 0.63GHz.
Update5: Now things really start to get interesting.
The original test for sustained frequency of the big cluster may be inaccurate because the thermal management temp (still not sure which one it is) could have been higher/lower
It seems that setting the thermal limit actually only changes the temperature at which the big cluster is shut off. It doesn't seem to affect the frequency curve AT ALL. I made some tests in which I raised the thermal limit after the big cluster was throttled down, and it did not increase its frequency again. It's hard to take a screenshot of this, though. The only temperature trepn can monitor is core CPU temp. However, another temperature is responsible for thermal management.
The thermal management of the big cluster looks someting like this:
Code:
if Temp below *whatever* use burst to the maximum
else go offline (or be forced to idle while grilling the phone)
This means a big cluster being forcefully kept alive by a high thermal limit does nothing except for drawing lots of power and raising the temperature.
The only time a big core @ 0.63GHz is utilized, is when the small core is at or below 0.96GHz. But only if the temperature is not too high (not sure how high, cannot measure this with sufficient accuracy). So @ 0.63GHz the big cluster is useless and should go offline.
The best temperature for sustained performance is 44°C. This ensures that the big cluster is used to its full potential as long as possible, while also making sure it is taken offline when it is no longer being used.
tl;dr:
core control should be active, msm_thermal disabled
while throttled to 0.63GHz, the big cluster is actually on standby (most of the time, see above)
for max sustained performance set thermal throttling to 44°C

This is extremely interesting. Thanks.

Awesome!
Could you also measure the implicit effect of throttling temperature on battery life ?

kruft said:
Awesome!
Could you also measure the implicit effect of throttling temperature on battery life ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cannot give you exact numbers since we can't measure CPU voltage in realtime. However, the big cluster generates so much heat, even when @0.63GHz and idle, that it increases the CPU temperature by an average of 10°C. Therefore the power draw of the CPU is alot higher.
Additionally, this also leads to the battery heating up faster. A Li-Ion Battery works best at 15°C, anything above or below decreases the usable capacity. The higher the temperature, the less "juice" you get.

Razorless said:
Do NOT set the throttling limit above 46°C! It will actually decrease performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to mention make your device very hot to touch. One thing I enjoy about the 5x are its cooler skin temperatures, measured at just 37.4 C degrees maximum and considerably cooler than most high end Android devices. For instance the N5 can have 45+ C degree skin temperatures.
With default thermals the small cores never fall under 1.44Ghz. The GPU stays at maximum clocks so sustained graphical performance (gaming, GPS navigation) remains high and device relatively cool at its maximum throttled point.
Thanks for the interesting tests.

Interesting. Thanks!

Updated
Fixed a few confusing phrases, should be easier to read now.
Also, it seems the app "Navigon" has terrible optimization. Constantly zooming the map (while using GPS) generates more heat than CPU benchmarks. GPS seems to draw alot of power as well. Much more than expected.

Big updates
Big updates guys and gals. So big it deserves its own post (main post is pretty long) to raise awareness:
Now things really start to get interesting.
The original test for sustained frequency of the big cluster may be inaccurate, because the thermal management temp (still not sure which one it is) could have been higher/lower
It seems that setting the thermal limit actually only changes the temperature at which the big cluster is shut off. It doesn't seem to affect the frequency curve AT ALL. I made some tests in which I raised the thermal limit after the big cluster was throttled down, and it did not increase its frequency again. It's hard to take a screenshot of this, though. The only temperature trepn can monitor is core CPU temp. However, another temperature is responsible for thermal management.
The thermal management of the big cluster looks someting like this:
Code:
if Temp below *whatever* use burst to the maximum
else go offline (or be forced to idle while grilling the phone)
This means a big cluster being forcefully kept alive by a high thermal limit does nothing except for drawing lots of power and raising the temperature.
The only time a big core @ 0.63GHz is utilized, is when the small core is at or below 0.96GHz. But only if the temperature is not too high (not sure how high, cannot measure this with sufficient accuracy). So @ 0.63GHz the big cluster is useless and should go offline.
The best temperature for sustained performance is 44°C. This ensures that the big cluster is used to its full potential as long as possible, while also making sure it is taken offline when it is no longer being used.

What are the defaults again?
core control off
msm_thermal on
thermal throttling at 46°C
?

Smultie said:
What are the defaults again?
core control off
msm_thermal on
thermal throttling at 46°C
?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Default values for ElementalX are core control on, msm_thermal off, throttling 46°C.

Razorless said:
Default values for ElementalX are core control on, msm_thermal off, throttling 46°C.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So all we gotta do is change the Thermal Throttling temp to 44?

Smultie said:
So all we gotta do is change the Thermal Throttling temp to 44?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, and of course checking that msm_thermal is off and core control is on. Some scripts can override those settings.

That's really intresting, but what about the thermal-config? What i mean is that all the data and benchmarks you have done are with the thermal-engine running and with his default values?

GoldGanja said:
That's really intresting, but what about the thermal-config? What i mean is that all the data and benchmarks you have done are with the thermal-engine running and with his default values?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only things we can influence are the core control throttle temp and to choose between msm_thermal and core control. I found msm_thermal to behave the same as core control with a high temp limit.
I did not dare to run benchmarks without either core control or msm_thermal enabled.

Razorless said:
The only things we can influence are the core control throttle temp and to choose between msm_thermal and core control. I found msm_thermal to behave the same as core control with a high temp limit.
I did not dare to run benchmarks without either core control or msm_thermal enabled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't we change some settings of thermal-engine-8992.conf and thermal-engine-default.conf found in /system/etc?

Razorless said:
The only things we can influence are the core control throttle temp and to choose between msm_thermal and core control. I found msm_thermal to behave the same as core control with a high temp limit.
I did not dare to run benchmarks without either core control or msm_thermal enabled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How we do influence core control throttle temp? as far as i know core control throttle temp is managed by thermal-engine.... and in thermal engine you set a throttling on the freq. plus the unplug temp.

Is there any benefits of setting minimum big cluster freq to 384 MHz?

GoldGanja said:
How we do influence core control throttle temp? as far as i know core control throttle temp is managed by thermal-engine.... and in thermal engine you set a throttling on the freq. plus the unplug temp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right now, we cannot actually influence the behavior of the thermal engine. The throttling temperature only determines at which temp the big cluster is completely shut off. It doesn't affect the frequency scaling and may be hardcoded on the chip.
khanjui said:
Is there any benefits of setting minimum big cluster freq to 384 MHz?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried that and for idle temperatures it didnt't seem to make a different. However, this is almost impossible to measure since android is always doing something in the background and the CPU is seldom completely idle. We would need to be able to see voltages in realtime to analyze that.
Surprisingly, at high load the lowered min frequency of the big cluster is actually ignored. It scales back up to 0.63GHz when at high load and if throttle temp is high enough. Even though the big core is not utilized, which is really strange.
In theory, however, it should help to decrease power consumption and accelerate cooldown.

Razorless said:
Right now, we cannot actually influence the behavior of the thermal engine. The throttling temperature only determines at which temp the big cluster is completely shut off. It doesn't affect the frequency scaling and may be hardcoded on the chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Razorless why you say that? Actually in the thermal-engine-8992.conf there is BOTH the SS algorithm monitor to UNPLUG the B.cores, this one is for CPU4:
[CPU4_HOTPLUG_MONITOR]
algo_type monitor
sensor xo_therm_buf
sampling 1000
thresholds 41000
thresholds_clr 39000
actions hotplug_4
action_info 1
AND there is the PID algorithm monitor to adjust max freq. based on temp, this one is for the B.cores and is present a similar one for L.cores:
[PID-BIG_CLUSTER_management]
algo_type pid
sampling 1000
sensor xo_therm_buf
device cluster1
set_point 39000
set_point_clr 37000
p_const 10.0
i_const 0.09
d_const 0.0
i_samples 10
dev_units_per_calc 10000
limit 10
While the Nexus5X uses the PID algorithm others devices, like my Mi4C uses as default a flat SS algorithm like this one:
SS-SKIN-XO-THERM-PERF]
algo_type ss
sampling 250
sensor xo_therm_buf
device cluster1
set_point 43000
set_point_clr 37000
time_constant 0
device_max_limit 800000
this means that if the B. cores reaches 43° the max freq changes to 800Mhz till temps get to 37...and all this parameters can be tuned as you pleased.

le 2 ( snapdragon varient) performance issues

Devs,
The performance of le 2 is very bad when it comes to gaming.
It is the same in every stock eui to miui and all lineage os ROMs like AICP which uses lineage is kernel.
As per my finding this is due to severe thermal throttling in eui as well as in lineage os 13 and 14.1.
Firstly the two A72 CORES don't run while any task making it like SD 650 and clock go soo down at reaching 34° to 35°c and at above temp all A72 CORES ARE DOWN in lineage is and only one works in stock eui, same goes with GPU under clocking starts at 32°c making gaming experience horrible,
Even kernel auditor don't have any control in any of the ROMs and in lineage is 14.1 27 Feb build it is told it have core control but it can make all A72 cores run couldn't control clock speeds and result is the same ,
So I request devs please make a kernel from scrap and don't take hints from eui kernel and give us good gaming experience.
Thank you

ajroxxx said:
Devs,
The performance of le 2 is very bad when it comes to gaming.
It is the same in every stock eui to miui and all lineage os ROMs like AICP which uses lineage is kernel.
As per my finding this is due to severe thermal throttling in eui as well as in lineage os 13 and 14.1.
Firstly the two A72 CORES don't run while any task making it like SD 650 and clock go soo down at reaching 34° to 35°c and at above temp all A72 CORES ARE DOWN in lineage is and only one works in stock eui, same goes with GPU under clocking starts at 32°c making gaming experience horrible,
Even kernel auditor don't have any control in any of the ROMs and in lineage is 14.1 27 Feb build it is told it have core control but it can make all A72 cores run couldn't control clock speeds and result is the same ,
So I request devs please make a kernel from scrap and don't take hints from eui kernel and give us good gaming experience.
Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My findings were exactly same as yours, the cpu and gpu, both are underclocking for even slightest of temperature rise. This is bad, but the good news is, I figured out a way, by which we can disable this poorly configured thermal throtling.
Delete this file here: /system/etc/thermal-engine-s2.conf
I don't know it it is safe or not, but I have been gaming with my device after deleting this file for about 10 days and there is no explosions yet. Hahaha.
Also, if you want, instead of deleting this file, you can modify some parameters so that, it starts throttling after some really high temperatures, instead of current values, but I like deleting that file because some thermal throtlling algorthm is always embedded in soc anyways.

shivamg95 said:
My findings were exactly same as yours, the cpu and gpu, both are underclocking for even slightest of temperature rise. This is bad, but the good news is, I figured out a way, by which we can disable this poorly configured thermal throtling.
Delete this file here: /system/etc/thermal-engine-s2.conf
I don't know it it is safe or not, but I have been gaming with my device after deleting this file for about 10 days and there is no explosions yet. Hahaha.
Also, if you want, instead of deleting this file, you can modify some parameters so that, it starts throttling after some really high temperatures, instead of current values, but I like deleting that file because some thermal throtlling algorthm is always embedded in soc anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See your findings are correct but I myself renamed thermal config s2 but it didnot have any effect and at 33 ° I can see GPU under clocked at 432 MHz and CPU under clocks itself , and at 35° the lagging in games can be seen easily
Will try deleting the file also ,hoping it can have any effect

ajroxxx said:
See your findings are correct but I myself renamed thermal config s2 but it didnot have any effect and at 33 ° I can see GPU under clocked at 432 MHz and CPU under clocks itself , and at 35° the lagging in games can be seen easily
Will try deleting the file also ,hoping it can have any effect
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My cpu temp have gone over 60°c but I haven't seen any throttling in cpu or gpu. But when, that file was present, those temperatures were never reached because of thermal throttling.

shivamg95 said:
My findings were exactly same as yours, the cpu and gpu, both are underclocking for even slightest of temperature rise. This is bad, but the good news is, I figured out a way, by which we can disable this poorly configured thermal throtling.
Delete this file here: /system/etc/thermal-engine-s2.conf
I don't know it it is safe or not, but I have been gaming with my device after deleting this file for about 10 days and there is no explosions yet. Hahaha.
Also, if you want, instead of deleting this file, you can modify some parameters so that, it starts throttling after some really high temperatures, instead of current values, but I like deleting that file because some thermal throtlling algorthm is always embedded in soc anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Deleting this file is an absolutely terrible idea. Modify it instead.

Jelixis said:
Deleting this file is an absolutely terrible idea. Modify it instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At first, I thought the same. But yesterday, i have played asphalt 8 in bright sunlight(to test if there is some thermal throttling left embedded in soc). And I was right, it throttles down the gpu, big cores, small cores, even some cores went offline automatically. After the device was cooled, everything wqs back to normal. So, IMO, there is no harm even if we play in extreme conditions with the file deleted, thermal throttling will kick in when its needed. Although, I advise modifying the file to others. Hahaha

shivamg95 said:
At first, I thought the same. But yesterday, i have played asphalt 8 in bright sunlight(to test if there is some thermal throttling left embedded in soc). And I was right, it throttles down the gpu, big cores, small cores, even some cores went offline automatically. After the device was cooled, everything wqs back to normal. So, IMO, there is no harm even if we play in extreme conditions with the file deleted, thermal throttling will kick in when its needed. Although, I advise modifying the file to others. Hahaha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thermal throttling happens even in the best chips. Most of the time, it's integrated in the lower level portions of the chip.
Just let it be, really. Thermal throttling is the way of the chip of protecting itself from heat damage. PC processors, for example, shut down when removing the fan and reaching critical temperatures.

Jelixis said:
Thermal throttling happens even in the best chips. Most of the time, it's integrated in the lower level portions of the chip.
Just let it be, really. Thermal throttling is the way of the chip of protecting itself from heat damage. PC processors, for example, shut down when removing the fan and reaching critical temperatures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya true it is present in every chip but optimizing is Also a thing right.
In le 2 the two A72 cores don't run at all above 30°(except when opening apps while it is cool ,so after 33 or 34° they are not used in anything,and 34 is average temp of the phone while using ,that means it just exactly works like a loweclocked SD 650 which even more throttled with each degree rise in temp and at 36 ° ( which is avg temperature while gaming ) phone turns off one more A72 core meaning three A72 cores are off and one a72 is throttle to around 800 mhz and even all a53 cores run at half clock speeds and till that time GPU also reaches below 350mhz and lower a and it impossible to run even minor games like subway surfers lag free,
And since lineage is kernel has taken hint from eui kernel ,it performs exactly the same as stock kernel which leaves us with no choice left.
 @codeworkx please look into this issue and please build a kernel for gaming performance as SD 652 is getting wasted due to thermal throttling, @codeworkx I am sure you know this issue better than me ,please find time to work on it.
@shivamg95 deleting the thermal file couldn't help this

ajroxxx said:
Ya true it is present in every chip but optimizing is Also a thing right.
In le 2 the two A72 cores don't run at all above 30°(except when opening apps while it is cool ,so after 33 or 34° they are not used in anything,and 34 is average temp of the phone while using ,that means it just exactly works like a loweclocked SD 650 which even more throttled with each degree rise in temp and at 36 ° ( which is avg temperature while gaming ) phone turns off one more A72 core meaning three A72 cores are off and one a72 is throttle to around 800 mhz and even all a53 cores run at half clock speeds and till that time GPU also reaches below 350mhz and lower a and it impossible to run even minor games like subway surfers lag free,
And since lineage is kernel has taken hint from eui kernel ,it performs exactly the same as stock kernel which leaves us with no choice left.
@codeworkx please look into this issue and please build a kernel for gaming performance as SD 652 is getting wasted due to thermal throttling, @codeworkx I am sure you know this issue better than me ,please find time to work on it.
@shivamg95 deleting the thermal file couldn't help this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Deleting that thermal engine file, did help. Don't know why it doesn't work for you.

shivamg95 said:
Deleting that thermal engine file, did help. Don't know why it doesn't work for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not working and would have been not working for you also just check with kernel auditor,
I have check it thoroughly .
I think you don't know how to check
Tell me the process you check

ajroxxx said:
It is not working and would have been not working for you also just check with kernel auditor,
I have check it thoroughly .
I think you don't know how to check
Tell me the process you check
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First i make the soc heat by playing games or running benchmarks, then i open kernel auiditor and check if maximum cpu freq gets lowered or automatically or not. But it doesn't happen after deleting that file. Also, the gameplay seems very fluid then before. I also check for gpu max freq.

Hey, I have Cool 1 (same Soc) and yes, very dissapointed because in second 1 starts the throtling...
I have Kernel auditor. Which settings should I force?

hello, very nice threat.
I had some different experiences.
For me throotling starts slightly at 37° and bigger at 39 or 40 ... this results to throotled big cores at 1248mhz and a gpu to 432
to avoid that I made some underclocking settings which gives my setting antutu score of 69000 instead of 82000 and a geekbench score of 1000/3500 which is giving me cool and fast gaming enough
https://forum.xda-developers.com/le-2/how-to/kernel-adiutor-settings-8h-sot-colour-t3721254

Guide for playing PUBG smoothly

NO LAG, CHOPPINES. PLAYING FOR FEW DAYS. APPLICABLE TO ALL SNAPDRAGON 810 DEVICES!
Update: Connect to charger if it lags. I've getting screen unresponsiveness after playing a few days without charging. Connecting to charger those lags are gone. Always try to play with mics and speakers off in game. Always cool your phone. It will feel burning otherwise.
Hi. I've seen lots of videos on YouTube, PUBG doesn't run properly and lags a lot on our device. Also its same on other snapdragon 810 devices. But its a high end chipset why should it lag? PUBG lags because of its throttling. But without throttling then burning heat.
Now do these:
I'm not responsible if anything bad happens.
1. Keep backup and delete thermal-config file, reboot.
2. Lower your CPU and GPU frequencies according to your game quality settings. Example: For Smooth and Medium FPS, set CPU to- big:960/633, little:1478mhz. or lower. GPU settings- 450/390 MHz. Check your settings and frequencies by yourself while playing.
You can disable CPU input boost if you feel.
3. Run A.C or Fan in your house, or play in much lower temperature.
4. Now run the game.
It won't lag, hang, and will run stable. But the device heats much. I tried even on HD at Ultra fps(GPU frequency didn't lower), the game ran perfectly and smoothly. though I lowered the CPU frequencies.
For HD and Ultra FPS:
1. CPU- big:1248(I tried and think enough, you may increase or decrease), little:1478.
2. GPU- I didn't lower GPU frequencies, it was running at 650, you may try 510 MHz.
3. Keep in mind to play in much lower temperature. Device will heat a lot. But won't lag a bit.
You can try. I'll update this thread sometimes.
Note: Always remind to paste thermal-config file in same directory and reboot, when you need. Also battery will drain faster in these. I tested it drains upto 27 percent per hour with throttled, and 29/30 percent without throttled on Smooth and Medium FPS with those settings.

*8*updated tested frequencies.