Database Users

[Q] How Android Works - OS and Versions

I know this is an incredibly newbish question, but I'd flipped through forums and articles and googled it and still don't quite seem to understand it.
My question is why is android dependent upon manufacturer's release?
Take for example, a desktop computer.
OS
This is the core of the device and the UI between the user and the hardware.
Applications talk to the OS to instruct the hardware to do stuff.
Microsoft and Apple makes the OS.
ex. Windows 7, Mac OS, Linux.
Hardware
Asus, Nvidia, Realtek, marvell make the hardware.
ex. video, LAN, sound etc.
Hardware Bundler
Dell, Alienware, Gateway, Acer
They take commercial hardware and some OEM hardware and assemble it in a way that many consumers will buy their bundle.
For 99.9% of us, not counting Synapse, this is the only way the hardware is packaged together.
Device Standards
Collectively, the manufactures work together to determine certain industry standards ex. ATX, PCI-E, SATA 3, USB 3.0 etc...
Drivers
The manufacturers also make drivers so the OS can make use of their hardware.
Compatibility Is Determined by Driver Support
If the driver exists to talk to a given OS, then the hardware will work.
Not all hardware manufacturers will code for every OS out there.
ex. USB works on all OS because it's more established, but not every sound card will work on a Linux system.
Bringing it home...
So if Microsoft releases Windows 8, and as long as Nvidia releases a driver that works with that OS, then the video card will work.
Can you help me understand how the android phone architecture is so different that it's no longer
OS <-> Driver <-> Hardware?
Sorry for not getting it.

oops, sorry.
My bad, I must have clicked the wrong section.
Can somebody move this thread?

Reposted in android section.
Please delete.

Can I dualboot Windows 8 and Android on Surface?

The title says it all. When Microsoft's Surface drops will I be able to dual boot Windows 8 Pro and some version of Android?

iiDeadSeriousii said:
The title says it all. When Microsoft's Surface drops will I be able to dual boot Windows 8 Pro and some version of Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Microsoft will enable secure boot on the Surface and restrict it so that no non-Microsoft OS can boot on it. This is true for all Windows RT devices. If you want a dual-booting tablet, you need a x86 one, but those cannot run Android very well.

I know the RT's gonna be a pain, but i was asking Surface Pro with intel chip. Or any Win 8 Pro tablet actually.

iiDeadSeriousii said:
I know the RT's gonna be a pain, but i was asking Surface Pro with intel chip. Or any Win 8 Pro tablet actually.
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Click to collapse
I don't see any reason why not as you can dual boot windows 8 pro with any other os its just RT. That said I cant confirm 2 things first that they wont lock the device itself (there is nothing in windows but they could lock the bios etc) and 2nd is finding an x86 version of Android that will run that's not just 2.2 (though I suspect it will take about a day to get it working)

lumpaywk said:
I don't see any reason why not as you can dual boot windows 8 pro with any other os its just RT. That said I cant confirm 2 things first that they wont lock the device itself (there is nothing in windows but they could lock the bios etc) and 2nd is finding an x86 version of Android that will run that's not just 2.2 (though I suspect it will take about a day to get it working)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah Microsoft will probably lock the Surface like Motorola locks everything. Also, for x86 android, see http://www.android-x86.org/

JihadSquad said:
Yeah Microsoft will probably lock the Surface like Motorola locks everything. Also, for x86 android, see http://www.android-x86.org/
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Off topic am i reading right that that is a generic version of 4? Thank you for this if it is as i been looking to get it working in hyper v.

lumpaywk said:
Off topic am i reading right that that is a generic version of 4? Thank you for this if it is as i been looking to get it working in hyper v.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is hyper-v working? I got winxp and ubuntu installed on mine but then I noticed that my cpu would not get off max frequency (on a quad core intel laptop with turbo boost that is VERY bad). I googled the problem and it turns out hyper-v keeps the cpu at max as long as it is installed. Apparently it is just a bug, as it works fine in server 2012. I had to uninstall it until MS releases the fix.

JihadSquad said:
How is hyper-v working? I got winxp and ubuntu installed on mine but then I noticed that my cpu would not get off max frequency (on a quad core intel laptop with turbo boost that is VERY bad). I googled the problem and it turns out hyper-v keeps the cpu at max as long as it is installed. Apparently it is just a bug, as it works fine in server 2012. I had to uninstall it until MS releases the fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no issues with cpu etc running on amd fx 8100 i was running xp but now running windows 7 (32 bit, for exchange 2003 support and VMware while we wait on veeam 6.5) and Ubuntu. I have found quite expectedly that it has an affect on boot times but processor core sit mostly idle - i have assigned 6 cores and they sit almost idle. I still pref VMware overall for main virtual network but for a simple vm on your local machine i have had no issues with hyper v so lets ho;e they get a fix for intel.

Dell Venue 8 Pro Review

OK, so coming from Surface RT, this thing is small, really small, but I like it, because its soooooo much faster than the Surface RT was. I found myself using my surface for consumption 95% of the time, and the other 5% was doing remote access work. Now, I don't even have to use remote access, x86 support is amazing.
- No web compromises at all - Silverlight support (Time Warner Cable streaming TV - device got really warm doing this, probably why its not supported on WinRT), Java, all the Google stuff, just work with x86, no more sad workarounds through crappy 3rd party apps for RT. Not sure what having Silverlight, Java, Chrome will do to the battery, but so far, its pretty great. I streamed NFL game through IE yesterday, still had 70% battery left after 3.5 hour continuous stream. The back of the device gets warm, but not bad at all.
- Install TouchMousePointer - http://www.lovesummertrue.com/touchm...-us/index.html for those times where you need mouse pointer support on your desktop. I tried to use an Android trackpad app, it didn't work. Im going to be getting new Nokia Lumia 929 on release day, hopefully it works in the MS ecosystem.
- Active Pen support (Synaptics) - I have yet to use this, but reviews elsewhere aren't so great. For the most part, they say that if your a printer, its terrible. If you use cursive for note taking, its good. I am coming from a really bad capacitive (almost unusable), so any improvement will be good........not to mention that I didn't have to spend 1200$ on Surface Pro to get active digitizer. (eta on stylus delivery is 11/7), ill update my review then.
- Bluetooth mouse is a bit laggy, not sure if its my mouse, or the tablet. Maybe a driver update is needed. It seems a bit jumpy......going to see if I can try a different one, hopefully its just the mouse, and not the hardware.
- Micro USB - I really wish I could plug in non powered USB drives via an OTG cable adapter, but unfortunately they do not work. I will have to buy a powered hub to get it to work. Kind of annoying, but its the price you pay to have a device this small. The fact that I can connect to home group, and utilize file transfer via wireless network is a great feature of windows 8.
- No wired external display options - I have yet to try using MHL - anyone try this yet? Im hoping that it works. If not, Ill have to try a Miracast receiver - I am concerned with any lag that could occur though.
- Accessories...........or lack thereof - there are no accessories, dell has an overpriced case (40$), and a 35$ stylus that others suggest shouldn't cost more than 10-15$. I would love to find a good case that would prop it up........Not sure why other OEMs don't understand the importance of a good integrated kickstand - really missing this from the Surface. Wondering if a case from a Note 8, or Kindle, or Nexus would work, don't have time to compare sizes, etc........too busy tinkering, and installing real software on this thing.
- Performance - FAST....a lot faster than I thought.......this isn't your typical Atom processor, check out youtube, there are some videos of this thing playing some serious games at 30fps.....it is legit. Windows apps from the store are super fast, switching between them, etc.........see below for some desktop apps ive installed:
(note, I chose older versions of software purposefully because they are much less taxing on the cpu, but still serve 98% of their purpose):
- AutoCAD 2007 - runs great, faster than on my laptop (its an old laptop with core2duo processor, and AMD gpu). I haven't tried anything 3D, but I assume it will handle basic functions fine - im not going to render anything with it - that's what remote access is for, but in a pinch, if I need to I can open files natively. It tells me that its not compatible with windows 8, but files open no problem. I think im missing some fonts, etc, but for the most part, running AutoCAD on a 8" screen is freaking cool.
- Photoshop CS6 - runs great, haven't tried anything gpu intensive - it opens images Pretty quick.
Want to try Lightroom, Google Earth, VLC, Spotify desktop version, Remote desktop - yes, im going to set up so I can remote access my tablet.........don't ask, just because I can - and that's the beauty of Windows 8!!!...........32gb is pretty limited....I might return it for the 64gb version - unless there any way to install x86 apps, and/ or move installed metro apps to the SD card?
Loving it so far, it has some minor issues, so close to being the PERFECT portable device. If I were an OEM mfr, id make full USB port a priority - if you have to have a small hump on one end to support it, then so be it, its sooooooo much better to not have to have an OTG adaptor cable. Also, HDMI out should be standard as well, especially since Miracast is still somewhat new tech.

UBNAS81 said:
- No web compromises at all - Silverlight support (Time Warner Cable streaming TV - device got really warm doing this, probably why its not supported on WinRT),
Not sure what having Silverlight, Java, Chrome will do to the battery, but so far, its pretty great.
unless there any way to install x86 apps, and/ or move installed metro apps to the SD card?
Loving it so far, it has some minor issues, so close to being the PERFECT portable device. If I were an OEM mfr, id make full USB port a priority - if you have to have a small hump on one end to support it, then so be it, its sooooooo much better to not have to have an OTG adaptor cable. Also, HDMI out should be standard as well, especially since Miracast is still somewhat new tech.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Warm isnt why silverlight wasnt support on windows RT (winRT and windows RT are not the same btw, although it is true that there is no silverlight on WinRT I guess). Its obsolete and hardly supported by microsoft, they dont want to bother porting tech that they cant be bothered with on x86 any more to win32 on ARM too.
Silverlight, java and chrome wont effect the battery on your tablet any more than they would on a laptop really.
Its normal windows 8.1, so you can install x86 desktop programs onto whichever drive you want, hence why most software installers specifically ask where to install, just set that to SD card. There is no requirement to use C:/Program Files for win32 applications. That one I thought was common knowledge for all windows users.
Full size USB port would be nice but you wont get full current from it. The battery cannot supply enough current, nothing to do with overall size of the system. The same restriction applies to most windows tablets, android tablets, android phones and more rarely laptops too (although usually old ones).
It really was dumb of dell to not stick a video output somewhere on the device, that almost puts me off the thing entirely.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Warm isnt why silverlight wasnt support on windows RT (winRT and windows RT are not the same btw, although it is true that there is no silverlight on WinRT I guess). Its obsolete and hardly supported by microsoft, they dont want to bother porting tech that they cant be bothered with on x86 any more to win32 on ARM too.
Silverlight, java and chrome wont effect the battery on your tablet any more than they would on a laptop really.
Its normal windows 8.1, so you can install x86 desktop programs onto whichever drive you want, hence why most software installers specifically ask where to install, just set that to SD card. There is no requirement to use C:/Program Files for win32 applications. That one I thought was common knowledge for all windows users.
Full size USB port would be nice but you wont get full current from it. The battery cannot supply enough current, nothing to do with overall size of the system. The same restriction applies to most windows tablets, android tablets, android phones and more rarely laptops too (although usually old ones).
It really was dumb of dell to not stick a video output somewhere on the device, that almost puts me off the thing entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you referring to Silverlight the API or Silverlight the video format xD? The API was integrated in .Net and winRT.

mcosmin222 said:
Are you referring to Silverlight the API or Silverlight the video format xD? The API was integrated in .Net and winRT.
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Click to collapse
I was not aware of any video format known as silverlight so you tell me which one I meant.
The API was always .NET based but uses one hell of alot of extensions. Silverlight programs will not run on a bare .NET virtual machine, even the windows 8 one. Easily proven with this lovely thing called trying it at home. .NET was integrated to winRT, silverlights "extra bits" were not.
Last major update to silverlight was december 2011. All releases since have been patch only. Silverlight has poor support outside of windows. Silverlight is entirely unsupported on android, iOS and linux, it seems rather unstable on OSX although that could just be the ancient OSX memory leak (personally witnessed OSX memory leaking on over 10 machines, yet you mention it on the apple forums asking for help in a polite manner and your thread gets deleted or they attribute it to firefox which is great but of the machines I have seen the issue on only 1 had firefox installed, my dads current mac it actually seems to be iTunes, quicktime, vuze and dropbox which are the main offenders) plus my dads mac having hardly any RAM probably compound this. Flash also sucks yet I would choose it over silverlight any day. Any company that limits itself to using silverlight for anything web based is utterly idiotic, except maybe in a thin client environment in some sort of corporation with windows thin clients perhaps, but even then I doubt the suitability in that role...

SixSixSevenSeven said:
I was not aware of any video format known as silverlight so you tell me which one I meant.
The API was always .NET based but uses one hell of alot of extensions. Silverlight programs will not run on a bare .NET virtual machine, even the windows 8 one. Easily proven with this lovely thing called trying it at home. .NET was integrated to winRT, silverlights "extra bits" were not.
Last major update to silverlight was december 2011. All releases since have been patch only. Silverlight has poor support outside of windows. Silverlight is entirely unsupported on android, iOS and linux, it seems rather unstable on OSX although that could just be the ancient OSX memory leak (personally witnessed OSX memory leaking on over 10 machines, yet you mention it on the apple forums asking for help in a polite manner and your thread gets deleted or they attribute it to firefox which is great but of the machines I have seen the issue on only 1 had firefox installed, my dads current mac it actually seems to be iTunes, quicktime, vuze and dropbox which are the main offenders) plus my dads mac having hardly any RAM probably compound this. Flash also sucks yet I would choose it over silverlight any day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Silverlight was a native API wrapped with .net methods to call from .net language. It was introduced with windows vista and most of it consumed by the WPF API implemented latter. The API itself survives through an open source implementation called Moonlight and is a viable cross platform GUI API.

mcosmin222 said:
Actually, Silverlight was a native API wrapped with .net methods to call from .net language. It was introduced with windows vista and most of it consumed by the WPF API implemented latter. The API itself survives through an open source implementation called Moonlight and is a viable cross platform GUI API.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errm, no it doesnt seeming as moonlight was scrapped, besides, did you ever try moonlight? The thing did not work at all for anything more complex than hello world. Plus you said yourself, native API, entirely contradicting your previous statement of it being part of .NET, you dont really know yourself do you.
My point still stands. Unsupported on linux. Buggy on OSX. No longer being updated besides patching on windows. Not supported on mobile. Yep, totally a viable cross platform GUI.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Warm isnt why silverlight wasnt support on windows RT (winRT and windows RT are not the same btw, although it is true that there is no silverlight on WinRT I guess). Its obsolete and hardly supported by microsoft, they dont want to bother porting tech that they cant be bothered with on x86 any more to win32 on ARM too.
Silverlight, java and chrome wont effect the battery on your tablet any more than they would on a laptop really.
Its normal windows 8.1, so you can install x86 desktop programs onto whichever drive you want, hence why most software installers specifically ask where to install, just set that to SD card. There is no requirement to use C:/Program Files for win32 applications. That one I thought was common knowledge for all windows users.
Full size USB port would be nice but you wont get full current from it. The battery cannot supply enough current, nothing to do with overall size of the system. The same restriction applies to most windows tablets, android tablets, android phones and more rarely laptops too (although usually old ones).
It really was dumb of dell to not stick a video output somewhere on the device, that almost puts me off the thing entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have Photoshop installed on C - in order to move it to the sd card, can I just copy paste from C/Program files, or do you recommend re-installing to that particular location? Do you think there will be any noticible drop in performance from running application from micro sdhc card?

UBNAS81 said:
I have Photoshop installed on C - in order to move it to the sd card, can I just copy paste from C/Program files, or do you recommend re-installing to that particular location? Do you think there will be any noticible drop in performance from running application from micro sdhc card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My experience with copy/pasting from C to another drive has been varied. Some applications will do it happily (GTA san andreas survived with a just a broken start menu shortcut, libre office died entirely. I would uninstall and reinstall to guarantee it survives the trip.
SD card read/write speeds should be fairly similar to the eMMC storage of the venue anyway. Application performance shouldnt be altered much.
Only other difference would be wear levelling. SSD's in desktop PC's may be slated for reduced lifetimes compared to old style magnetic hard drives, but SD cards are even worse. But they are cheap to replace and thankfully are replaceable unlike the internal storage on the tablet. Nor are they going to die on you next week, some people are regularly using raspberry pi's which boot the full system from SD card without issue (some people have also had them die from wear levelling in the pi after some heavy usage). If a pi can boot and run a full OS from SD, windows can run an application from an external SD card.

Did you tried out any games? i was wondering whether it can run old games like NFS most wanted or underground II.

rkoforever90 said:
Did you tried out any games? i was wondering whether it can run old games like NFS most wanted or underground II.
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Havent tried yet, focusing on getting software I use most..........I do want some NFS, or something like it on the tablet, especially since EA has completely ignored windows 8 from a Racing / Sports game point of view. There are on screen controlers that can be used
What im wondering, is it worth it to install new games on it - say Tiger Woods 2013, and run on lower settings.........or to just go for say, TW2010, and let it run higher. I assume that because of ATOM graphics limitations on full Windows games it might be better to run older games than the newest.
Maybe i try out Call of Duty Modern Warfare from 3 or 4 years ago instead of trying to run Ghosts on the thing. I dont even know if it would run, but im just wondering if goign with older games would be a better move, any thoughts?

Cant hurt to try old and move newer if you have the games available.

UBNAS81 said:
Havent tried yet, focusing on getting software I use most..........I do want some NFS, or something like it on the tablet, especially since EA has completely ignored windows 8 from a Racing / Sports game point of view. There are on screen controlers that can be used
What im wondering, is it worth it to install new games on it - say Tiger Woods 2013, and run on lower settings.........or to just go for say, TW2010, and let it run higher. I assume that because of ATOM graphics limitations on full Windows games it might be better to run older games than the newest.
Maybe i try out Call of Duty Modern Warfare from 3 or 4 years ago instead of trying to run Ghosts on the thing. I dont even know if it would run, but im just wondering if goign with older games would be a better move, any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep.me too thinking of the same ,iam planning to get a baytrail windows 8 tab with 10inch display and a keyboard(not sure know which one to buy though ) .anyway it will be a bit far fetched idea to run new games on a weak processor.but id like to play 1 or 2 old games like NFS underground II or resident evil 4.

How is the Wi-Fi on the VP8? I have the latitude 10 and the Wi-Fi has always seemed sluggish. The 5g always connects at the same speed as the 2.4Ghz band. Glad to hear the bay trail performs well.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

ElAguila said:
How is the Wi-Fi on the VP8? I have the latitude 10 and the Wi-Fi has always seemed sluggish. The 5g always connects at the same speed as the 2.4Ghz band. Glad to hear the bay trail performs well.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do have a 5ghz router right?

Yep and a 5Ghz extender as well. My phone will connect to either of the 5g connections at least 150mb. But not so for the latitude. I am hoping the VP8 would connect faster. It will be here tomorrow.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

I have an old Linksys G router at home, that desperately needs replacing, but just haven't gotten around to it. It hasn't given me any issues with streaming media, so I just haven't been motivated, but I am really looking to boost my home wifi speeds with one of the routers that can has USB media streaming capability. That being said, my DV8P has had no issues with WIFI. My Surface RT (which I am selling), had so many issues with limited wifi. No issues with this device so far.

Just came across this video...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPPY4m8iY0k&feature=youtu.be
full desktop computer in 8" tablet with USB 3.0 docking station. I will be buying one of these asap.

UBNAS81 said:
Just came across this video...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPPY4m8iY0k&feature=youtu.be
full desktop computer in 8" tablet with USB 3.0 docking station. I will be buying one of these asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well not really...
It is plugged into a SINGLE micro USB 2.0 socket.. So you can NEVER get USB3.0 speed and if you use some monitors with the Pluggable, i doubt the data transfer rates will be high (and i am talking about USB 2.0 speed and not USB 3.0).

thE_29 said:
Well not really...
It is plugged into a SINGLE micro USB 2.0 socket.. So you can NEVER get USB3.0 speed and if you use some monitors with the Pluggable, i doubt the data transfer rates will be high (and i am talking about USB 2.0 speed and not USB 3.0).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The micro USB is USB3.0

SixSixSevenSeven said:
The micro USB is USB3.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... And who said this? The Pluggable Guys?
The only thing, which i really trust would be the Dell specs OR if a Owner would present us some speed-tests or details from the Device-Manager in WIN8.1:
http://www.dell.com/us/p/dell-venue-8-pro/pd?oc=fncwv8p01h&model_id=dell-venue-8-pro
"Ports & Connectors
1 x Micro-AB USB2.0 (for trickle charging and data transfer)
1 x Headphone and microphone combojack
1 x 3FF micro-SIM slot (coming soon, optional with WWAN configuration)"
It is not that I would be unhappy about USB 3.0, but it is just USB 2.0..
Edit: The Dell Venue Pro 11!! has USB 3.0.. Not the 8"

Getting newer AMD cards to work with windows 8.1

'allo. I'm not sure if this could be the right place for asking this, but it is kinda shamefully that AMD hadn't made RX 500+ graphics card series for Windows 8.1, but they did for Windows 7, right? I understand the point is that because Windows 8.1 just has a small number of being used by people (even lower than XP ones, LOL) just because it is considered a failure, but I can see Windows 8.1 is really good, especially when it comes to gaming (not on ancient tech ofc ).
Anyways, let's get straight serious now with the question, is there any possibility to get the AMD's newest video cards drivers to work with Windows 8.1? Last time I tried whenever I tried even Windows 7's / 10 drivers it was just likely installing but instead it just crashed the entire system (BSOD).
And yes, I'm asking this because I can see some people managed to get older AMD cards on windows 8 series and later without making it crashing whenever it was attempting to get the drivers installed themselves.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1536711

Is it possible to install Windows on the Android YB1-X90F?

Hey all,
I just got two Lenovo Yoga Book tablets, both are YB1-X90F models. One is dead (no power at all) and the other has a broken keyboard. My plan is to carry the (presumably) functional keyboard to the otherwise functioning tablet, and go from there.
I've seen these running Windows 10 and Android respectively. According to the specs I can see from the device itself in cpu-z as well as the internet searching that I have conducted, it appears as if the Android tablet uses an Intel CPU. My question then, is whether or not it is possible to simply install windows 10 on this thing? I would assume that it would be impossible because of the different bootloaders, but perhaps I'm wrong?
Alternatively, is there a newer ROM I could install on it to make it more secure and usable in 2022?
TIA