While I am an advocate for device customization and modifications, I also believe there is an inherent need for locked bootloaders. When we unlock a BL and leave it that way so we can run custom ROMs, root etc, we sacrafice the security it provides allowing our devices to be tampered with or redistributed after a theft. I've seen the PSA advising people not relock their bootloaders on anything except stock. That is entirely true for Verizon and EE pixels that were never intended to be unlocked in first place. However I believe its entirely possible to boot properly self signed images on unlockable devices after re-locking.
Now, I'm not saying we should go around re-locking bootloaders with custom firmware installed there's a process. I've done a bit of reading on verified boot. I am interested in utilizing the "YELLOW STATE" so we can run self signed boot images using an "embedded certificate" along with dm-verity disabled. The problem is how can we self sign our boot images allowing boot to continue without compiling from source?
https://source.android.com/security/verifiedboot/verified-boot.html
https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/31765.html
I found some information & maybe a more experienced DEV can shed some light on if its possible with our Pixel devices. That's really the goal of this thread, to start a discussion which I think is extremely important & hopefully turn into a guide or tool. We shouldn't completely sacrafice security to utilize root or custom ROMs. On my N5X I have a locked bootloader and modified boot/system with Allow OEM unlock disabled. Difference with our Pixels and Nougat BLs is verified boot is strictly enforced.
Please excuse me if this thread seems jumbled or all over the place. I really do want help with this idea tho to help inform and keep us secure. Any input is appreciated.
Well if anybody is interested in re-locking their boot loader with a custom ROM and kernel in place I basically figured out how
Refer to this post
If anybody plans to attempt this and has ANY questions or concerns regarding re-locking their bootloaders in a custom state please don't hesitate to post here. I successfully re-locked my bootloader with custom ROM and Kernel. I also modified TWRP in my kernel to only start via locked down adb with key access. This allows my pixel to be highly secure and still recoverable. Might start a new post highlighting my proceedures and research on this subject.
I still wouldn't do this. What's the point? You will still pass safety net with custom kernel.
As for security you, your device still needs to be decrypted to use TWRP. It should still be as secure. I guess someone can wipe your device if they get ahold of it but that's not really a security risk.
Risk is still huge locking your device with a custom OS.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
milan187 said:
I still wouldn't do this. What's the point? You will still pass safety net with custom kernel.
As for security you, your device still needs to be decrypted to use TWRP. It should still be as secure. I guess someone can wipe your device if they get ahold of it but that's not really a security risk.
Risk is still huge locking your device with a custom OS.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with passing safety net. TWRP can only access the data after the pin is input, true, but leaving a device with an unlocked boot loader leaves the ability to flash modified boot images (a huge attack vector). This is to keep your device yours if it falls into a theives hands. You can not have device protection features on a unlocked Allow OEM unlock device. You're right there is risk but being careful can alleviate the risk. I do this because I want my phone to be a trackable paper weight if somebody takes it. I have established my own chain of trust outside of googles. I have even modified my TWRP side of boot.img to only start with my PC using adb-keys.
Which risk is greater. The risk of losing an unlocked device and it falling into the hands of someone that knows what to do or bricking it relocking it.
I vote the latter.
Its not re-locking that bricks... Its disabling the allow OEM unlock in dev options & screwing with stuff afterwards that may cause a bootloop. As long as you have a signed boot image in place with TWRP or stock recovery that uses your own keys the risk is minimal.
Simple rule... With a locked boot loader on a device where verification is strictly enforced always leave that option ticked if modifying anything.
I'm sorry but people are misinformed. Locking the boot loader doesn't brick if you have a custom ROM in place any more than a stock ROM. Its screwing with things or using a poorly dev'd ROM. If you are like me and can set something up the way you like once and not screw with it you'll be fine. If you do wanna screw with something remember to check allow OEM unlock in dev opts. Don't uncheck until you're 100% sure. It really is that simple.
If you are leaving the toggle open what have you accomplished when it gets stolen? They just issue the fastboot command to unlock it. Yea, it wipes data at that point. But I honestly can't think of anything on my phone that is confidential.
When I'm out n about and using my phone normally (i.e. not modding, flashing etc) I put the toggle to off. If I'm planning on changing anything I toggle it back on & if something causes a bootloop (most probably user error) I can recover. I don't think most people who steal phones care about data either but I keep a lot of keys, passwords etc to networks in my devices storage. I admit its not for everybody, just a way to be more secure and protect a $700+ investment. My phones bootloader isn't just locked, its locked with a persistent root ssh backdoor integrated into system so I can maintain control in the event.
want to re-lock my boot loader ?
Geofferey said:
Well if anybody is interested in re-locking their boot loader with a custom ROM and kernel in place I basically figured out how
Refer to this post
If anybody plans to attempt this and has ANY questions or concerns regarding re-locking their bootloaders in a custom state please don't hesitate to post here. I successfully re-locked my bootloader with custom ROM and Kernel. I also modified TWRP in my kernel to only start via locked down adb with key access. This allows my pixel to be highly secure and still recoverable. Might start a new post highlighting my proceedures and research on this subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey,
I as well as plenty of others thought I was clever unlocking it as I mainly wanted to unlock it from EE UK network , its not been touched since ,no custom rooms or root but after reading people are trying to Re-lock it and getting bricked im too scared too try lol its only phone ive got ? Appreciate any help please x
---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------
sally76 said:
hey,
I as well as plenty of others thought I was clever unlocking it as I mainly wanted to unlock it from EE UK network , its not been touched since ,no custom rooms or root but after reading people are trying to Re-lock it and getting bricked im too scared too try lol its only phone ive got ? Appreciate any help please x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry Duhhhh !! Custom u said lol
Geofferey said:
Well if anybody is interested in re-locking their boot loader with a custom ROM and kernel in place I basically figured out how
Refer to this post
If anybody plans to attempt this and has ANY questions or concerns regarding re-locking their bootloaders in a custom state please don't hesitate to post here. I successfully re-locked my bootloader with custom ROM and Kernel. I also modified TWRP in my kernel to only start via locked down adb with key access. This allows my pixel to be highly secure and still recoverable. Might start a new post highlighting my proceedures and research on this subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Geofferey, Do you happen to know if these commands are still right with LOS 17.1 / Android 10?
(Or does anyone else know?)
PS: Sorry everyone for pumping such an old thread
nullstring2 said:
Geofferey, Do you happen to know if these commands are still right with LOS 17.1 / Android 10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately no. Now there is avbtool and the process is actually a bit more complicated. Somebody wrote a guide on how to use it externally for another device but I couldn't even follow. I actually find it easier to get the sources for whatever ROM it is I'm trying to sign and set the signing params in config before build.
Here is the guy who did it usually avbtool externally
https://forum.hovatek.com/thread-32664.html
Many instructions here
https://android.googlesource.com/platform/external/avb/+/master/README.md
Geofferey said:
...but I couldn't even follow. /QUOTE]
Well, thats an intimidating introduction, but I'll take look.
That guide appears to be talking about mediatek CPUs which makes it a little confusing.
Any hint on how to get the vbmeta signing key for the google pixel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nullstring2 said:
Any hint on how to get the vbmeta signing key for the google pixel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean how to make your own key to perform signing then
Code:
openssl genrsa -des3 -out avb.pem 2048
If you're asking how to get the same key that Google used to sign vbmeta, it ain't ever gonna happen.
Geofferey said:
Well if anybody is interested in re-locking their boot loader with a custom ROM and kernel in place I basically figured out how
Refer to this post
If anybody plans to attempt this and has ANY questions or concerns regarding re-locking their bootloaders in a custom state please don't hesitate to post here. I successfully re-locked my bootloader with custom ROM and Kernel. I also modified TWRP in my kernel to only start via locked down adb with key access. This allows my pixel to be highly secure and still recoverable. Might start a new post highlighting my proceedures and research on this subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there ANY way to do this on Xperias or LGs?
Geofferey said:
It has nothing to do with passing safety net. TWRP can only access the data after the pin is input, true, but leaving a device with an unlocked boot loader leaves the ability to flash modified boot images (a huge attack vector). This is to keep your device yours if it falls into a theives hands. You can not have device protection features on a unlocked Allow OEM unlock device. You're right there is risk but being careful can alleviate the risk. I do this because I want my phone to be a trackable paper weight if somebody takes it. I have established my own chain of trust outside of googles. I have even modified my TWRP side of boot.img to only start with my PC using adb-keys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has ALL to do with safetynet/play integrity.
I wouldn't care to leave my bootloader unlocked otherwise.
But I want a rom that passes all security standards without "tricks".
Related
I apologize if there is already a thread like this, but the search wasnt working.. I know what i can do with my phone once it is rooted, I am just interested in what happens tot he actual phone. I could be wrong, but once i root it isnt it always possible to tell that i rooted it even if i unroot it so therefor all warantees are voided? sorry if im being unclear, i cant think of another way to explain it haha.
The K-Zoo Kid said:
I apologize if there is already a thread like this, but the search wasnt working.. I know what i can do with my phone once it is rooted, I am just interested in what happens tot he actual phone. I could be wrong, but once i root it isnt it always possible to tell that i rooted it even if i unroot it so therefor all warantees are voided? sorry if im being unclear, i cant think of another way to explain it haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The language on the "warranty void" screen says that unlocking the bootloader "may" void your warranty. On the Nexus One, HTC usually honored the warranty if the issue was with anything hardware related and could not have been the result of software tampering. Granted, that's them and this is Samsung.
Further, unless there is something hidden in the system files that counts the number of times you unlock the bootloader, you can always relock it prior to sending it in for repair with fastboot oem lock.
unremarked said:
The language on the "warranty void" screen says that unlocking the bootloader "may" void your warranty. On the Nexus One, HTC usually honored the warranty if the issue was with anything hardware related and could not have been the result of software tampering. Granted, that's them and this is Samsung.
Further, unless there is something hidden in the system files that counts the number of times you unlock the bootloader, you can always relock it prior to sending it in for repair with fastboot oem lock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So there is a way to kind of undo the root without them knowing? THanks a lot btw. I figured it was something like this.
The K-Zoo Kid said:
So there is a way to kind of undo the root without them knowing? THanks a lot btw. I figured it was something like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unlocking the bootloader and rooting are two different things
jblade1000 said:
unlocking the bootloader and rooting are two different things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh i have no idea what unlocking the bootloader does then.
The K-Zoo Kid said:
Ahh i have no idea what unlocking the bootloader does then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a nutshell, unlocking the bootloader means you will be allowed to flash non-Google/custom files to the system partition and more or less enables superuser access(aka root). Once thats done, then you "root" the device, push the Superuser.apk which will enable the rooted apps. Please check out the rooted section of my stickied FAQ for more detail on how to do this if you decide to. There are two great threads I link to.
Once you lock the bootloader, you lose access to the system partition and superuser I believe which effectively unroots it.
unremarked said:
In a nutshell, unlocking the bootloader means you will be allowed to flash non-Google/custom files to the system partition and more or less enables superuser access(aka root). Once thats done, then you "root" the device, push the Superuser.apk which will enable the rooted apps. Please check out the rooted section of my stickied FAQ for more detail on how to do this if you decide to. There are two great threads I link to.
Once you lock the bootloader, you lose access to the system partition and superuser I believe which effectively unroots it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So basically if you want to do any sort of mods, flash roms, etc. you need to unlock the bootload and root. Thanks a lot for explaining that. I think i understand it now, but just to clarify, if i unlock the bootloader and root will i be able to get the phone back to stock without samsung knowing that i rooted/unlock the bootloader?
The K-Zoo Kid said:
So basically if you want to do any sort of mods, flash roms, etc. you need to unlock the bootload and root. Thanks a lot for explaining that. I think i understand it now, but just to clarify, if i unlock the bootloader and root will i be able to get the phone back to stock without samsung knowing that i rooted/unlock the bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, to mod/flash roms you need to unlock the bootloader. It's possible that sometime down the road someone may develop a method of gaining root access on the phone without touching it, but it's unlikely given the fact that we can both unlock and lock the bootloader very easily.
Right now, the answer is... more or less. If you make a NAND backup in Clockwork Recovery/Rom manager of your stock ROM, you can restore back to that, fastboot flash the closest thing we have currently to the stock recovery(check development section for this), then relock the bootloader. This will give the phone all appearances of being stock. Unless Samsung has something deep in the system files tracking the number of times you've unlocked/locked(which I doubt, since I'm sure such a system would have been found by now), you should be good to go.
Most people who have returned the phone to Best Buy have noted that they don't even power on the device or check to see if the bootloader is unlocked or if there's a custom recovery on there. But your mileage may vary.
Interesting stuff. I was under the impression that once clockworkmod is flashed there is no way to remove it at this time.
Reading this thread I'm guessing and hoping this is not the case?
I had clockworkmod installed but used rom manager to flash the 2.3.1 update and i've now got the stock bootloader back. I guess the ota update does the same? It would seem that getting back to stock is pretty easy.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
xspyda said:
Interesting stuff. I was under the impression that once clockworkmod is flashed there is no way to remove it at this time.
Reading this thread I'm guessing and hoping this is not the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My apologies, I posted that before I came to the same understanding regarding the stock recovery.
Like the poster above me mentioned there is a NAND backup of stock 2.3.1 you could restore to which has the stock recovery.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Thanks for the clarification. I'll do some more reading in the dev section
Thanks a lot, this really helped me out a lot. I will proceed to rooting
So, just want to make sure I have this straight... You unlock the bootloader, load custom recovery, SU, and now phone is rooted. If you lock the bootloader, you lose root?
For me, I'm not big on custom roms since I just don't have time to keep things up to date or participate in the bug process, but I do like to maintain backups with Titanium (my primary reason for rooting). So by locking the bootloader down I will not be able to use Titanium. Furthermore, unlocking the bootloader wipes the device. So is there a reason one would not want to keep the bootloader unlocked? Have I completely misunderstood the system?
Guys,
We've seen several people have flashed system.img's and OTA's and ended up in a bootloop.. Not the end of the world really, BUT for some reason, before you can unlock your bootloader using fastboot, you must enable OEM unlock in Developer options in Android settings - which you cannot do if you are bootlooping.
If you still have a custom recovery, you'll be fine but if you're 100%, locked bootloader and bootlooping, we haven't found a fix yet so please do not lock your bootloader.
If you feel you absolutely must relock your bootloader (at your own risk) please boot the phone up to check it works properly before doing this. If you intend flashing roms and kernels or custom recoveries, locking the bootloader is not a good idea
Please also see the below link provided by @efrant
https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/6172890?hl=en
This goes into more detail about how google have enhanced device security with 5.1 and some other pitfalls that you may wish to avoid. This is pretty salient information, so do give it a read.
Good advice, i would add to that NEVER LOCK YOUR BOOTLOADER. ???
Sent from my Nexus 9 using XDA Free mobile app
ChristianJay said:
Good advice, i would add to that NEVER LOCK YOUR BOOTLOADER.
Sent from my Nexus 9 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I would add that I completely disagree with this statement. Coming from an infosec standpoint, I keep my bootloader locked, and just suffer the reset when I need to tweak. If you don't, anyone - not just you - can replace your system partition or boot a random IMG which could inject functionality. This may not be the most common mechanism for attack as it requires physical access, but it basically obviates the encryption with a deepfreeze style boot IMG.
Additionally, when you think about this in context of the border crossing exemptions many countries, including the US, have to protections against unwarranted search, I would recommend that anyone with proprietary or sensitive business data who crosses international borders keeps their bootloader locked when not modifying the system. Also, until custom recoveries include security features, I recommend using stock.
Why are we making our phones so insecure just to have root? Not cool.
So just to be clear the correct procedure would be to boot the device after updating enable the setting and then go and lock your bootloader? Or just keep it unlocked overall.
Personally I keep mine unlocked but for those wanting to take full advantage of androids new device protection a locked bootloader would serve a purpose. Preventing someone from just flashing a custom rom and keeping your device.
:thumbup:
I thought I really #$# up
Thank you for posting this...when 5.1 was dropping, I attempted to return to stock...all the way.to be able to take Verizon's OTA...when i locked the boot loader, i was stuck in a boot loop with the android guy and the gear box spinning FOREVER.....its is not easy to get out of the loop, but i managed to boot back up into boot loader mode, and force a stock image using toolkit.
I am now unlocked, running 5.1 on Verizon, have full LTE/VOLTE, can speak and surf at same time...i have not rooted yet...but just glad it was not me....had a heart attack two nights ago...
xander45 said:
Thank you for posting this...when 5.1 was dropping, I attempted to return to stock...all the way.to be able to take Verizon's OTA...when i locked the boot loader, i was stuck in a boot loop with the android guy and the gear box spinning FOREVER.....its is not easy to get out of the loop, but i managed to boot back up into boot loader mode, and force a stock image using toolkit.
I am now unlocked, running 5.1 on Verizon, have full LTE/VOLTE, can speak and surf at same time...i have not rooted yet...but just glad it was not me....had a heart attack two nights ago...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im so new to this but im rooted with an unlocked bootloader but im running full stock android. i only rooted just so i can chance the provision to get free tethering with my unlimited data. i have the wugfresh nexus tool kit and cant for the life of me figure out how to upgrade my nexus 6 to 5.1. Is there in anyone that can get me a step by step on how to update so i can take advantage of hd calling and silmutaneous voice and data... ive been waiting tooooooooooo long for this update..
rootSU said:
Guys,
We've seen several people have flashed system.img's and OTA's and ended up in a bootloop.. Not the end of the world really, BUT for some reason, before you can unlock your bootloader using fastboot, you must enable OEM unlock in Developer options in Android settings - which you cannot do if you are bootlooping.
If you still have a custom recovery, you'll be fine but if you're 100%, locked bootloader and bootlooping, we haven't found a fix yet so please do not lock your bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi root,
I saw that thread yesterday ...
I thought this was already covered when the N6 came out, to get the bootloader unlocked you had to do a 1st boot of the device and ENABLE OEM Unlock, then you were good to go to get into fastboot and unlock.
The reason was google put the option there for 5.0, vice all our previous versions which had no toggle for it.
I think it was people jumping the gun and not doing that first boot, but immediately jumping into fastboot and flashing, and that caused it, yes? Because the BL wasn't unlocked, they couldn't flash the OTA and boot img ...
daijizai said:
And I would add that I completely disagree with this statement. Coming from an infosec standpoint, I keep my bootloader locked, and just suffer the reset when I need to tweak. If you don't, anyone - not just you - can replace your system partition or boot a random IMG which could inject functionality. This may not be the most common mechanism for attack as it requires physical access, but it basically obviates the encryption with a deepfreeze style boot IMG.
Additionally, when you think about this in context of the border crossing exemptions many countries, including the US, have to protections against unwarranted search, I would recommend that anyone with proprietary or sensitive business data who crosses international borders keeps their bootloader locked when not modifying the system. Also, until custom recoveries include security features, I recommend using stock.
Why are we making our phones so insecure just to have root? Not cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is nonsense.
You need *physical* access to it in order to carry out such an attack.
If your phone leaves your PHYSICAL access, then you already know not to trust what is on it, whether or not it has an unlocked bootloader.
xander45 said:
Thank you for posting this...when 5.1 was dropping, I attempted to return to stock...all the way.to be able to take Verizon's OTA...when i locked the boot loader, i was stuck in a boot loop with the android guy and the gear box spinning FOREVER.....its is not easy to get out of the loop, but i managed to boot back up into boot loader mode, and force a stock image using toolkit.
I am now unlocked, running 5.1 on Verizon, have full LTE/VOLTE, can speak and surf at same time...i have not rooted yet...but just glad it was not me....had a heart attack two nights ago...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kng60ft said:
im so new to this but im rooted with an unlocked bootloader but im running full stock android. i only rooted just so i can chance the provision to get free tethering with my unlimited data. i have the wugfresh nexus tool kit and cant for the life of me figure out how to upgrade my nexus 6 to 5.1. Is there in anyone that can get me a step by step on how to update so i can take advantage of hd calling and silmutaneous voice and data... ive been waiting tooooooooooo long for this update..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no need to lock the device to take an OTA. You can keep it unlocked and do an ota
doitright said:
This is nonsense.
You need *physical* access to it in order to carry out such an attack.
If your phone leaves your PHYSICAL access, then you already know not to trust what is on it, whether or not it has an unlocked bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not nonsense. Yes you need physical access to carry out the attack, but with a locked bootloader and the new precautions against unlocking and fastboot it makes locked bootloaders fairly bulletproof.
I cannot recommend unlocked bootloaders to anyone that works SCIF'd and leaves their phone in a shared box during the day, anyone that crosses international borders, or anyone whose phone might contain IP or trade secrets and could be a target of theft.
This is as much about trusting the phone afterwards as it is about protecting your data on the phone - even when encrypted.
y2whisper said:
So just to be clear the correct procedure would be to boot the device after updating enable the setting and then go and lock your bootloader? Or just keep it unlocked overall.
Personally I keep mine unlocked but for those wanting to take full advantage of androids new device detection a locked bootloader would serve a purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just keep it unlocked
rootSU said:
Guys,
We've seen several people have flashed system.img's and OTA's and ended up in a bootloop.. Not the end of the world really, BUT for some reason, before you can unlock your bootloader using fastboot, you must enable OEM unlock in Developer options in Android settings - which you cannot do if you are bootlooping.
If you still have a custom recovery, you'll be fine but if you're 100%, locked bootloader and bootlooping, we haven't found a fix yet so please do not lock your bootloader.
If you feel you absolutely must relock your bootloader (at your own risk) please boot the phone up to check it works properly before doing this. If you intend flashing roms and kernels or custom recoveries, locking the bootlaoder is not a good idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had this boot loop also, but clearing Cache and Dalvik seemed to fix the loop for me.
nyteryder79 said:
I had this boot loop also, but clearing Cache and Dalvik seemed to fix the loop for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats good.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/goo...orial-how-to-flash-factory-images-lg-t2713833
This may help if you got stuck in a bootloop.
is there a fix if my mem shows i own a 32g device when i bought a 64g device, im unlocked/rooted and on custom rom?
darren.wlsn1 said:
is there a fix if my mem shows i own a 32g device when i bought a 64g device, im unlocked/rooted and on custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to know too. I'm unrooted, stock everything, with 64GB Blue, but it shows 23GB total space for the device with 16GB available. Was fine before the 5.1 update.
Marcellus1 said:
I'd like to know too. I'm unrooted, stock everything, with 64GB Blue, but it shows 23GB total space for the device with 16GB available. Was fine before the 5.1 update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=58201783&postcount=106
should help
darren.wlsn1 said:
is there a fix if my mem shows i own a 32g device when i bought a 64g device, im unlocked/rooted and on custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marcellus1 said:
I'd like to know too. I'm unrooted, stock everything, with 64GB Blue, but it shows 23GB total space for the device with 16GB available. Was fine before the 5.1 update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Factory reset?
Not really the thread to ask this though.
rootSU said:
Factory reset?
Not really the thread to ask this though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, and sorry
I'm new to Android. Recently I got a new nexus 6p. I was so confused that whether I have to unlock bootloader or not. Currently I just want to experience the pure Android simply without rooting or changing anything. But I heard a lot about bricked nexus 6 that the device would not be manually fixed if it was not bootloader unlocked before. As I am in China where I have no warranty for my nexus 6p, I have to keep my device safe as possible as I can.
So my question is under the circumstance that I haven't unlocked bootloader or OEM:
How much probability could it be I do nothing but unexpectedly brick the device?
If it is bricked, is it possible to recover it?
Do common nexus 6p users have to unlock bootloader?
Another important thing should be mentioned. Generally I can't access to any service by google in China, so I utilize a proxy tool to get over the great firewall to use google. Is there any experience about the situation like me? I also heard a saying that upgrading nexus 6 firmware by OTA through a proxy tool in China may brick the device, because google can not save the upgrading information of the device for the reason that the proxy IP is not static, then google will push update again, and once you click it, brick.
Puzzled enough...Thanks in advance.
I am not 100% certain what you are asking... If you do not unlock the bootloader, you should not be able to brick your device. The only reason to unlock it is to flash a custom ROM (not official from Google) or to flash Google factory images, which it sounds like might be necessary for you being that you are in China and may not receive OTAs properly. This is a process of downloading a file from Google and flashing to your device after unlocking the bootloader.
Your post was not exactly clear partially, but is your phone already bricked and you are trying to recover, or simply asking for your own reference?
fury683 said:
I am not 100% certain what you are asking... If you do not unlock the bootloader, you should not be able to brick your device. The only reason to unlock it is to flash a custom ROM (not official from Google) or to flash Google factory images, which it sounds like might be necessary for you being that you are in China and may not receive OTAs properly. This is a process of downloading a file from Google and flashing to your device after unlocking the bootloader.
Your post was not exactly clear partially, but is your phone already bricked and you are trying to recover, or simply asking for your own reference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for replying. Could you please point out the unclear expressions? And I could edit them.
I have only unlocked nexus 6p bootloader, and the device is running well. I do not understand exactly why I have to do this, I just do it in case the situation described by other nexus 6 users happen to my nexus 6p. So I want to figure out the logic.
If you have no reason to unlock it, then you can relock it. Unlocking will always cause a full wipe (factory reset) of the device. Some users have stated that relocking the bootloader will also induce a wipe. If you want to leave it unlocked, this will allow you to flash factory images (such as updates from Google) as often as you'd like. It is possible to flash a factory image without losing any data by modifying the batch file used to flash the firmware.
Simply having the bootloader unlocked should not pose any threat to your device. You have to try very intentionally to flash firmware and risk bricking the device, it's not really something you can do by accident. The one thing I will mention is that with the bootloader unlocked, someone with the correct knowledge could flash a new image on your phone without needing your password or other security information. They would only need to power off the device, enter bootloader mode and plug into a PC to begin flashing. This would remove every trace of you and your data from the device and make it like it was brand new from the factory.
By keeping the bootloader locked and the "Allow OEM unlocking" option turned OFF, a person would need to have your password (or fingerprint) to gain access to this option in the settings, thus not allowing them to flash over the device as it is today.
Hope this helps.
fury683 said:
If you have no reason to unlock it, then you can relock it. Unlocking will always cause a full wipe (factory reset) of the device. Some users have stated that relocking the bootloader will also induce a wipe. If you want to leave it unlocked, this will allow you to flash factory images (such as updates from Google) as often as you'd like. It is possible to flash a factory image without losing any data by modifying the batch file used to flash the firmware.
Simply having the bootloader unlocked should not pose any threat to your device. You have to try very intentionally to flash firmware and risk bricking the device, it's not really something you can do by accident. The one thing I will mention is that with the bootloader unlocked, someone with the correct knowledge could flash a new image on your phone without needing your password or other security information. They would only need to power off the device, enter bootloader mode and plug into a PC to begin flashing. This would remove every trace of you and your data from the device and make it like it was brand new from the factory.
By keeping the bootloader locked and the "Allow OEM unlocking" option turned OFF, a person would need to have your password (or fingerprint) to gain access to this option in the settings, thus not allowing them to flash over the device as it is today.
Hope this helps.
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According to you, I should not be able to brick my device if I did not unlock the device. I can understand this. But the problem is I am in China...By using proxy, I could receive OTAs correctly. But some nexus 6 users in China still encountered with device bricked after upgrading firmware by OTAs even they didn't unlock bootloader. One possible reason is like what I mentioned in last paragraph #1.
I don't like the prompt each time when I reboot the device after unlocking bootloader. Let's make the problem simpler. Can I unbrick the device if it is bricked and bootloader locked?
I can't really speak to your concern regarding bricking from OTA. This should nearly never happen, but I would suspect that the proxy is the issue. If you are concerned about that particular instance being an issue, I would simply not accept the OTA and don't install it. The file will download to your device and you will see a notification very similar to this: http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/12/1c244e92c6a0cd69ca6e1a3037a05d62.jpg If you do not click Install, it will not install itself. You can click Later but usually cannot dismiss the notification. I have had the update pending on my Nexus 7 tablet that I don't often for months, but simply have not upgraded because I don't use it often enough to justify it.
If you want to be on the latest firmware for security reasons (Android 6/M will have monthly security patch releases from Google), you can download the factory images and flash yourself. However, if you believe there may be an issue because of the proxy you are using, the factory image could face the same issue as the OTA as you described. As I said, because I am not in China and do not use a proxy as you do, I cannot comment on how or why other users may have faced a hard brick scenario.
Ultimately, having the bootloader unlocked will allow you to flash the factory image over a bricked firmware caused by a corrupt (or otherwise unusable) OTA. If the phone can enter bootloader mode, you can flash the firmware and restore it to like new state. The warning message you see when booting is not able to be disabled without locking the bootloader again, but it only appears for a few moments. It was previously hidden on the Nexus 6 (not the 6p) so it might be possible in the future, but that is just a guess.
fury683 said:
I can't really speak to your concern regarding bricking from OTA. This should nearly never happen, but I would suspect that the proxy is the issue. If you are concerned about that particular instance being an issue, I would simply not accept the OTA and don't install it. The file will download to your device and you will see a notification very similar to this: If you do not click Install, it will not install itself. You can click Later but usually cannot dismiss the notification. I have had the update pending on my Nexus 7 tablet that I don't often for months, but simply have not upgraded because I don't use it often enough to justify it.
If you want to be on the latest firmware for security reasons (Android 6/M will have monthly security patch releases from Google), you can download the factory images and flash yourself. However, if you believe there may be an issue because of the proxy you are using, the factory image could face the same issue as the OTA as you described. As I said, because I am not in China and do not use a proxy as you do, I cannot comment on how or why other users may have faced a hard brick scenario.
Ultimately, having the bootloader unlocked will allow you to flash the factory image over a bricked firmware caused by a corrupt (or otherwise unusable) OTA. If the phone can enter bootloader mode, you can flash the firmware and restore it to like new state. The warning message you see when booting is not able to be disabled without locking the bootloader again, but it only appears for a few moments. It was previously hidden on the Nexus 6 (not the 6p) so it might be possible in the future, but that is just a guess.
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OK I choose to give in...leave it unlocked there.
Thank you very much!
gnange said:
OK I choose to give in...leave it unlocked there.
Thank you very much!
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The decision to leave it unlocked is the right decision. The other person replying in this thread is completely wrong when he says you can't brick a phone if you don't unlock it, that's completely and utterly incorrect. Sometimes things happen, unforeseen spontaneous problems happen all the time with smartphones. If this happens to you and your bootloader is locked there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. So yes, leave your bootloader unlocked as an insurance policy against the unforeseen.
@fury683, I'd think twice before telling someone that nothing bad can happen to their phone as long as it's locked, this is false information, and could potentially lead to someone being unable to repair a soft-bricked device due to following your advice.
Heisenberg said:
The decision to leave it unlocked is the right decision. The other person replying in this thread is completely wrong when he says you can't brick a phone if you don't unlock it, that's completely and utterly incorrect. Sometimes things happen, unforeseen spontaneous problems happen all the time with smartphones. If this happens to you and your bootloader is locked there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. So yes, leave your bootloader unlocked as an insurance policy against the unforeseen.
@fury683, I'd think twice before telling someone that nothing bad can happen to their phone as long as it's locked, this is false information, and could potentially lead to someone being unable to repair a soft-bricked device due to following your advice.
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To be fair, I said should not. I've never bricked a device from normal use.
I offered my opinion, and the reasons why. I've been burned by comments and advice from people plenty of times and try my best to help out where I can. I don't think my post was misleading, and I appreciate your comments on the matter as well.
Heisenberg said:
The decision to leave it unlocked is the right decision. The other person replying in this thread is completely wrong when he says you can't brick a phone if you don't unlock it, that's completely and utterly incorrect. Sometimes things happen, unforeseen spontaneous problems happen all the time with smartphones. If this happens to you and your bootloader is locked there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. So yes, leave your bootloader unlocked as an insurance policy against the unforeseen.
@fury683, I'd think twice before telling someone that nothing bad can happen to their phone as long as it's locked, this is false information, and could potentially lead to someone being unable to repair a soft-bricked device due to following your advice.
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Thanks for your advice. So, I can make the conclusion that we should unlock nexus bootloader no matter where we are, when it is and whether we will root or not, right ?
gnange said:
Thanks for your advice. So, I can make the conclusion that we should unlock nexus bootloader no matter where we are, when it is and whether we will root or not, right ?
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The choice is ultimately yours, but my advice is always to have it unlocked, that way you're able to access and use fastboot in the event that something goes wrong.
fury683 said:
To be fair, I said should not. I've never bricked a device from normal use.
I offered my opinion, and the reasons why. I've been burned by comments and advice from people plenty of times and try my best to help out where I can. I don't think my post was misleading, and I appreciate your comments on the matter as well.
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As I am new to android, your reply benefits me a lot. I notice you replied me before dawn while it was afternoon in China, thanks for your kindness but you should pay more attention to getting enough sleep, don't burn yourself out. : )
Heisenberg said:
The choice is ultimately yours, but my advice is always to have it unlocked, that way you're able to access and use fastboot in the event that something goes wrong.
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Actually I used to suppose one has to unlock bootloader only if in China. Now I get it. Thank you !
Heisenberg said:
The choice is ultimately yours, but my advice is always to have it unlocked, that way you're able to access and use fastboot in the event that something goes wrong.
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Yep what Heisenberg said is 100% true. My phone got bricked after the OTA update resulted in an error. I hadn't enabled the OEM Unlock setting, so couldn't unlock the phone. Have to wait for a replacement now
I've read the PSA about not relocking non-stock pixels, but it appears those are more directed towards Verizon unlocked pixels. Others also stating it's not safe to lock a non-stock device period... Can anybody explain this to me? Nicely I have systemless root and pass safetynet checks, the literal only reason I'd like to lock my bootloader is because it's kind of a security vulnerability isn't it? What's to stop someone from fastbooting and flashing to bypass my security and gain access to my data?
Or is fastboot not really an attack vector as long as the devices is passworded? Twrp seems to require my password, but what about fastboot booting a twrp image? will my data still be encrypted?
lucid888 said:
I've read the PSA about not relocking non-stock pixels, but it appears those are more directed towards Verizon unlocked pixels. Others also stating it's not safe to lock a non-stock device period... Can anybody explain this to me? Nicely I have systemless root and pass safetynet checks, the literal only reason I'd like to lock my bootloader is because it's kind of a security vulnerability isn't it? What's to stop someone from fastbooting and flashing to bypass my security and gain access to my data?
Or is fastboot not really an attack vector as long as the devices is passworded? Twrp seems to require my password, but what about fastboot booting a twrp image? will my data still be encrypted?
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Well... It's advised not to relock a bootloader, in case something goes wrong...
Imagine your device doesn't boot, bootloop or gets corrupted for whatever reason?! You'll have no other choice than sending back your device for repair. Because you can't flash anything being locked. Also, your data are now encrypted. If i was you i wouldn't worry too much about it. The only reason you should think about relocking is: If you ever have to RMA your device. Flash a factory image and relock it before...
Cheers...
Being nice here, so don't misunderstand my bluntness. You are rooted, with a kernel from some other person and who knows what else you changed.
The one in a million that you lose your phone and it falls into the hands of someone that knows what to do AND wants your data is the least of your security concerns.
And for the record, my phone is set up much like yours. So not saying anything you did is wrong. I am saying if you want security flash it back to stock and lock it.
Anything less you are kidding yourself.
This! ^^
I wish to root my phone(XT1686) but intend to keep the stock ROM(no bootloader unlock).
Is there any advantage in doing so? And will OTA updates be affected?
yourSAS said:
I wish to root my phone(XT1686) but intend to keep the stock ROM(no bootloader unlock).
Is there any advantage in doing so? And will OTA updates be affected?
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It is not possible to root without unlocking the bootloader on this device...
If you don't have a specific reason to root, don't do it.
And once rooted, you cannot accept any OTA... most likely case if you do it will just fail, worst possible case it bricks (which can happen but is extremely rare).
To answer the question in your title, about the advantages of rooting...
Rooting gives you near full access to your device, and thus the ability to customize it beyond the options provided to you via the default interface. Also, some apps provide additional features on rooted phones. For example, some security programs recommend rooting your device so that it can more forcefully integrate itself with the device to protect against malware, hacking, etc. I tend to install a security package that works better on a rooted device, as well as make use of features that tend to only work on a rooted device, such as folder mounting from the internal SD card to the external one. Also, allows me to access system files that are unavailable otherwise, allowing me to customize certain sounds (or copy them at least).
If you decide you want to root your device, make sure you understand the steps to take BEFORE trying it. That means when you come across a guide on how to do it, make sure you get all the files that will be required and reading through the instructions step by step. If any of the steps sound like it will leave you lost on what to do, then DO NOT do any of it. Also, make sure you read the comments for the guide as well, looking for any mention of issues encountered and consider if you might encounter those issues as well. For example, if it causes issues for devices that use a particular carrier and you use that same carrier, you might want to leave well enough alone. Compare your phone version numbers with what others report having issues with (kernel, baseband, build, etc). Anything that someone has an issue with where their phone somehow matches up with yours in some way, take that as a sign to investigate deeper, so as to avoid having any issues yourself.
For the most part, unless you have a need or desire for a feature/function that requires rooting your device, don't mess with it. I'm not kidding, as one mistake can leave you without a working phone and without any options for returning/replacing it.
Thanks for the replies & warnings.
I'm not a noob so I know the risks of rooting. So maybe I should have rephrased it-
What are the advantages of rooting Moto G5 plus specifically?
Say like in terms of mods and other stuff? Also, is it possible to unroot once rooted- I mean to ask if it's possible to revert the state to factory mode with bootloader locked and stock ROM so that device will be eligible for OTA updates again?
yourSAS said:
Thanks for the replies & warnings.
I'm not a noob so I know the risks of rooting. So maybe I should have rephrased it-
What are the advantages of rooting Moto G5 plus specifically?
Say like in terms of mods and other stuff? Also, is it possible to unroot once rooted- I mean to ask if it's possible to revert the state to factory mode with bootloader locked and stock ROM so that device will be eligible for OTA updates again?
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Bootloader lock is not relevant to OTA's. You might be able to relock, but the fact it was once unlocked cannot be hidden, it will always be very clear that it was unlocked.
Unrooting is easy, the issue arises undoing what you did with root, undoing them all depends what you changed.
I don't know of any reasons specific to this device to root.
acejavelin said:
Bootloader lock is not relevant to OTA's. You might be able to relock, but the fact it was once unlocked cannot be hidden, it will always be very clear that it was unlocked.
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If the OEM knows I've unlocked bootloader, why will it push OTAs to my phone even though I've locked bootloader on my end? So isn't bootloader lock status relevant for OTA?
yourSAS said:
If the OEM knows I've unlocked bootloader, why will it push OTAs to my phone even though I've locked bootloader on my end? So isn't bootloader lock status relevant for OTA?
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No, the status of your bootloader is not relevant... Moto will notify you of an available update and happily attempt to apply it regardless if your bootloader is locked or not.
What matters is if the boot or system partitions is changed, if there is ANY change to those, among other things like if the radio version or recovery versions don't match or the partition table is changed, the update will fail. If you flash any custom recovery it will fail as well.
On this subject I mention a slight con which is that some banking or financial apps might complain to you if they detect root. I have maybe 10 different bank and credit apps installed and all work flawlessly except 1. The Huntington Bank app wont allow me to use fingerprint login but otherwise the app is fully functional like mobile deposits. Just wanted to mention to be aware.