Database Users

Whats the difference between Atrix and Atrix 4G?

International market is getting Atrix 3G, US is getting 4G. Is there any difference? As far as I know, both versions support HSPA+.

syl0n said:
International market is getting Atrix 3G, US is getting 4G. Is there any difference? As far as I know, both versions support HSPA+.
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Largely terminology. If you mean HSPA+, then no, there's no difference. Someone has hinted that the Atrix will make it to other carriers. If it goes to Verizon, we could see a version that supports LTE. Then you'll have a difference. Until then, it's HSPA+ on various frequencies (assuming there will be a European version on a quirky frequency, and assuming it hits TMo).
Sent from my Sexy Nexy, courtesy of the fine developers of Tapatalk

There is no difference at all. In Europe they don't call HSPA+ 4G, so it's not called a 4G phone there.

It's kind of weird, it's probably because of some more restrictive laws outside the US where you can't call a cat a tiger (after all, HSPA+ is NOT 4G). Otherwise, they would surely market it the same way in Canada and Europe.

PuerkitoBio said:
It's kind of weird, it's probably because of some more restrictive laws outside the US where you can't call a cat a tiger (after all, HSPA+ is NOT 4G). Otherwise, they would surely market it the same way in Canada and Europe.
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The idea of US carriers calling HSPA+ 4G is that it is delivering 4G speeds using upgraded 3G technology. 14.4Mbps HSPA+ with AT&T is nearly on par with the LTE speeds we will see on Verizon initially. T-Mobile is cranking their HSPA+ up to 42Mbps or something similar. It will be some time before carriers can really flex LTE muscle, but for now there really won't be that huge of a speed difference, so all these carriers calling their data tech 4G is just marketing.
Besides, LTE is NOT 4G either by definition. LTE is more of a 3.5G technology, similar to HSPA+, but the cool thing with LTE is that over time it can be upgraded to approximately 300Mbps theoretical download speed, while HSPA+ can only be upgraded to approximately 84Mbps download speed.
LTE Advanced will be the first technically compliant 4G technology on the market, but we are still years off from seeing that in the real world.
So take everything you see about 4G as a grain of salt. Atrix 4G vs Atrix is just marketing lingo.
And when people want to say that the Droid Bionic is a real 4G device would technically be incorrect. So don't think your Atrix is in any way inferior to the Bionic (except maybe camera and screen size).

PuerkitoBio said:
It's kind of weird, it's probably because of some more restrictive laws outside the US where you can't call a cat a tiger (after all, HSPA+ is NOT 4G).
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It is now. Standards folks changed their minds, and as of last month or so current WiMax, current LTE, and HSPA+ are all 4G.

when i talked with my rep basically he said they were dropping the 4g just to make things easier. The phone is the same, just some people are still using the superfluous 4g tag.

Does this mean that we can buy a sim-free Atrix 4g from at&t, bring it to europe and use it with european sim cards?or any other gsm sim-cards around the world?

Po0yAn said:
Does this mean that we can buy a sim-free Atrix 4g from at&t, bring it to europe and use it with european sim cards?or any other gsm sim-cards around the world?
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I'd really like to know that as well. Besides this the only thing preventing me from ordering an unlocked version as soon as such is available is the bootloader thing.

A_Kirsh said:
I'd really like to know that as well. Besides this the only thing preventing me from ordering an unlocked version as soon as such is available is the bootloader thing.
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same here.thats why im considering galaxy s2 now. i have both moto milestone and galaxy s,the build quality of moto is way better.also my friends like the milestone build and look more,but the locked up bootloader really frustrated me.although there aren't much of great custom roms for galaxy s either,we haven't had a decent cyanogenmod rom around yet, after 8 month since galaxy s been released.
i like atrix more because of better build,higher resolution and tegra 2,but the damn bootloader and later release date along with slightly better specs for s2 like shipping with 2.3 and better camera is changing my desire.
not to mention that this time moto is using PenTile for it LCD and sami is using stripe matrix for its samoled+. thats another let down for atrix.
it was stupid from moto to change the lcd tech on atrix, stripe matrix looked great on milestone.
u can see the differences here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4165/the-motorola-atrix-4g-preview/4
you can see im pretty confused here!if only the damn nexus s was shipped with a daul core cpu!

LockeCPM4 said:
The idea of US carriers calling HSPA+ 4G is that it is delivering 4G speeds using upgraded 3G technology. 14.4Mbps HSPA+ with AT&T is nearly on par with the LTE speeds we will see on Verizon initially. T-Mobile is cranking their HSPA+ up to 42Mbps or something similar. It will be some time before carriers can really flex LTE muscle, but for now there really won't be that huge of a speed difference, so all these carriers calling their data tech 4G is just marketing.
Besides, LTE is NOT 4G either by definition. LTE is more of a 3.5G technology, similar to HSPA+, but the cool thing with LTE is that over time it can be upgraded to approximately 300Mbps theoretical download speed, while HSPA+ can only be upgraded to approximately 84Mbps download speed.
LTE Advanced will be the first technically compliant 4G technology on the market, but we are still years off from seeing that in the real world.
So take everything you see about 4G as a grain of salt. Atrix 4G vs Atrix is just marketing lingo.
And when people want to say that the Droid Bionic is a real 4G device would technically be incorrect. So don't think your Atrix is in any way inferior to the Bionic (except maybe camera and screen size).
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Click to collapse
Just thought I'd correct you. Tmobile has claimed they can reach speeds of up to 672mbps with their HSPA+ tech. Honestly with speeds like that is there any real need for LTE?
"Now we're seeing a chart of T-Mobile's 4G evolution on the HSPA+ technology path, starting with 21Mbps in 2010. We're seeing 28, 42, 84, 168, and 672Mbps bars here as we move through dual-carrier, MIMO, and so on."
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/live-from-t-mobiles-ces-2011-press-event/

svengalis said:
"Now we're seeing a chart of T-Mobile's 4G evolution on the HSPA+ technology path, starting with 21Mbps in 2010. We're seeing 28, 42, 84, 168, and 672Mbps bars here as we move through dual-carrier, MIMO, and so on."
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/live-from-t-mobiles-ces-2011-press-event/
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This is basically LTE. They will be switching to it eventually, and these technologies is what makes up most of it.
Just to make sure everyone's aware. Without a huge picocell/femtocell underlay, you will never see anything over 6-12 meg on an LTE network.

The difference between atrix 4g and atrix for europe could be regarding frequencies: 4g shold be 3g on frequencies 850/1900/2100 while european version 850/900/1900/2100. This should be not a problem because almost in all europe 3g works on 2100 Mhz frequency. What do you think about it?

mercuryzzz said:
The difference between atrix 4g and atrix for europe could be regarding frequencies: 4g shold be 3g on frequencies 850/1900/2100 while european version 850/900/1900/2100. This should be not a problem because almost in all europe 3g works on 2100 Mhz frequency. What do you think about it?
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Since most 3G GSM operates in the 2100MHZ area nowadays, I don't this this is too much of a problem (if I'm wrong could someone please correct me?)
I'm now curious as to what exactly is the unlock procedure (sim-wise) of an att Atrix... Can anyone please explain (in detail) ?

I was getting 3g and G on tmobile network

Hey guys i dont know if this is possible or not but when i was driving to cailfornia throught oregon i was getting G in some areas and then when i was back in washington i had 3g for about 5 minutes on the highway.
(im using it on tmobile usa right now)
Sorry for no screenshots cause im using notchatrix 1.3.1 and it doesnt have screenshot option in the power menue.
(sorry for bad spelling)

Congrats. You were getting (G)PRS, the slowest speed available.
Let us know if you're getting anything faster than 3G showing up. TMO was supposed to roll into AT&T bands by the end of the year and a few cities already have.

nh777 said:
Congrats. You were getting (G)PRS, the slowest speed available.
Let us know if you're getting anything faster than 3G showing up. TMO was supposed to roll into AT&T bands by the end of the year and a few cities already have.
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so your saying it will be possible to get 4g on atrix in about a year on tmobile?

It's already available in some cities and I saw it on my phone for brief periods while on tmo a few months back. If you google "t-mobile 1900" you'll see the announcement and phasing plans, just without any set dates other than a vague "by the end of 2012."

ross1998 said:
so your saying it will be possible to get 4g on atrix in about a year on tmobile?
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Yeah, if you can install a 4G radio in the phone and create the drivers for it, then it might work if you are really lucky and skilled.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda premium

4G/LTE

Just got my phone in US....Was able to get Saturday Delivery. Anyways, the phone is awesome! My phone shows a 4G icon is that the same as LTE? I know in the Xperia ZL there was an LTE icon. Thanks.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=4G+vs+LTE
You're welcome

macklobell said:
Just got my phone in US....Was able to get Saturday Delivery. Anyways, the phone is awesome! My phone shows a 4G icon is that the same as LTE? I know in the Xperia ZL there was an LTE icon. Thanks.
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What carrier are you on?

lolstebbo said:
What carrier are you on?
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Att in us. not getting lte.

macklobell said:
Att in us. not getting lte.
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If you clicked on the linked in the second post you would have known enough.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/general/questions-belong-t2868300

macklobell said:
Att in us. not getting lte.
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Do a speed test, someone on Android Central forums shows 4G on At&t and is getting 23+ down so it's LTE
Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

4G is the same as LTE. It's just how this phone decides to display it
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app

I live in Europe, phone shows LTE when I'm using it. It's also my first LTE phone so I'm blown away atm...

4G is LTE..
Sent from my Xperia Z2

Ive had mine on t-mobile doing speed test and I'm getting 30+ down while getting average 11 mb/s up. The phone shows 4g but that is lte speeds.

This thread is pretty funny
Many have already stated the simple fact that by name '4g and LTE' are interchangeable..
They are of the same radio.
:thumbup:

When I had my Z2 it was running UK firmware, it displayed 4G icon on my phone on AT&T network. When I flashed the phone with Euro Unbranded firmware , LTE icon got displayed.
It just depends on the firmware customization, so either way you are getting LTE speed but the icon displays different depending on the firmware installed

Turbo on other US networks, (T-Mobile and AT&T)

Has anyone had the chance to test it on other networks? I know it should work on T-Mobile with lte, but I'm debating whether to hold out a month for a international model, in hopes of it having the right lte bands for T-Mobile and no vzw bloat. Or a dev edition. Anyone else on the same boat?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

gordonzhao said:
Has anyone had the chance to test it on other networks? I know it should work on T-Mobile with lte, but I'm debating whether to hold out a month for a international model, in hopes of it having the right lte bands for T-Mobile and no vzw bloat. Or a dev edition. Anyone else on the same boat?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is impossible to purchase this phone without activating it on the Verizon network, which means you will need a contract or someone on a Verizon contract willing to activate it for you.
They will not let you buy the phone at retail and walk out of the store without activation. I have already tried, multiple ways. I do, however, have an active AT&T SIM and could perhaps try it. But I'd rather not.
Rumor is that Motorola has AT&T and T-Mobile versions on the way, be patient.

Yes I put my ATT sim in the phone.
It comes up with a warning that the sim card you're using is not from Verizon.
You can dismiss it and notice that you will see AT&T instead of Verizon Wireless at the bottom of the home screen.
The data icon shows 3G but speeds are more like HSPA+ speeds.
Voice and SMS not a problem.
I did not try sending a video in a text though.
APNs can be set and even after I did I did not see a 4GLTE icon.
Interestingly enough when I was done and put the Verizon SIM back in, the AT&T APN settings I put in earlier were completely gone, only the Verizon one was showing.
If TMO has a version that would be the one to get as they most likely will NOT have a locked bootloader AND you can walk out without activating at all, just pay cash or charge it, etc.
I have a friend with a TMO and give the associate that number and name on the account and tell the associate it's a gift.

Andromjb said:
It is impossible to purchase this phone without activating it on the Verizon network, which means you will need a contract or someone on a Verizon contract willing to activate it for you.
They will not let you buy the phone at retail and walk out of the store without activation. I have already tried, multiple ways. I do, however, have an active AT&T SIM and could perhaps try it. But I'd rather not.
Rumor is that Motorola has AT&T and T-Mobile versions on the way, be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know people ; ) I heard, moto maxx, but no word as to when, perhaps I'll give it to the end of the month, November.
cpufrost said:
Yes I put my ATT sim in the phone.
It comes up with a warning that the sim card you're using is not from Verizon.
You can dismiss it and notice that you will see AT&T instead of Verizon Wireless at the bottom of the home screen.
The data icon shows 3G but speeds are more like HSPA+ speeds.
Voice and SMS not a problem.
I did not try sending a video in a text though.
APNs can be set and even after I did I did not see a 4GLTE icon.
Interestingly enough when I was done and put the Verizon SIM back in, the AT&T APN settings I put in earlier were completely gone, only the Verizon one was showing.
If TMO has a version that would be the one to get as they most likely will NOT have a locked bootloader AND you can walk out without activating at all, just pay cash or charge it, etc.
I have a friend with a TMO and give the associate that number and name on the account and tell the associate it's a gift.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Att doesn't use the same lte bands, tmobile and Verizon do. I just wanted to make sure it would work. Are you using both vzw and att?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

gordonzhao said:
i know people ; ) I heard, moto maxx, but no word as to when, perhaps I'll give it to the end of the month, November.
Att doesn't use the same lte bands, tmobile and Verizon do. I just wanted to make sure it would work. Are you using both vzw and att?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I have accounts with both.

gordonzhao said:
i know people ; ) I heard, moto maxx, but no word as to when, perhaps I'll give it to the end of the month, November.
Att doesn't use the same lte bands, tmobile and Verizon do. I just wanted to make sure it would work. Are you using both vzw and att?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moto announcement in Brazil November 5th. Rumor mill consensus is it's for international turbo (Moto maxx). I'm waiting.

cpufrost said:
Interestingly enough when I was done and put the Verizon SIM back in, the AT&T APN settings I put in earlier were completely gone, only the Verizon one was showing.
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Click to collapse
The APN settings stay with the sim. When I was testing sims on a nexus 4 the settings for each individual sim would disappear/reappear when I unloaded/loaded the sims.
Someone else posted they were getting weak at&t LTE on the droid turbo elsewhere..

I am using the turbo on T-mo
Hey,
I purchased the turbo and popped my t-mo sim in and set the APN for T-mo, and I am getting G, 3G and LTE. I dont seem to be getting HSPA. I get LTE most of the time and normal speeds, like 30MBps. I am really happy to have LTE. I am in minnespolis, so I am not sure which band is coming in...

aaronc_98 said:
Hey,
I purchased the turbo and popped my t-mo sim in and set the APN for T-mo, and I am getting G, 3G and LTE. I dont seem to be getting HSPA. I get LTE most of the time and normal speeds, like 30MBps. I am really happy to have LTE. I am in minnespolis, so I am not sure which band is coming in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would be running lte off of band 2 and 4 since that'd T-Mobile's lte signal. As we speak I'm walking over to a vzw to check out the phone but will probably wait until the end of the month to get it if the international model doesn't have T-Mobile's lte bands
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

The Turbo will work on TMo, but I think its missing one of the spectrums for 42mbps. So its less reliable than would be expected.

Rebel908 said:
The Turbo will work on TMo, but I think its missing one of the spectrums for 42mbps. So its less reliable than would be expected.
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Click to collapse
definitely. But be patient, the Int Version is coming for sure. Motorola sent invitation already and it's not rumor. I really near to pull the trigger but after reading several news I decided to wait. Just a couple days....
Hope Turbo will receive good support from developer, if not... then nexus beat them all

Rebel908 said:
The Turbo will work on TMo, but I think its missing one of the spectrums for 42mbps. So its less reliable than would be expected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has 1900/2100 which is hspa+ for tmobile, if no lte it drops to hspa+
Onismurai said:
definitely. But be patient, the Int Version is coming for sure. Motorola sent invitation already and it's not rumor. I really near to pull the trigger but after reading several news I decided to wait. Just a couple days....
Hope Turbo will receive good support from developer, if not... then nexus beat them all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been reading, but I'm doubtful the international model will have tmobile lte, the only international models that ever do are Sony. As far as the n6, I played with it a few weeks back, the 6 inch screen is definitely too big.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

gordonzhao said:
It has 1900/2100 which is hspa+ for tmobile, if no lte it drops to hspa+
I have been using for 2 days on t-mo and I have yet to see it switch to HSPA. So are you saying it works for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

aaronc_98 said:
gordonzhao said:
It has 1900/2100 which is hspa+ for tmobile, if no lte it drops to hspa+
I have been using for 2 days on t-mo and I have yet to see it switch to HSPA. So are you saying it works for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you checked your data speeds? The droid turbo doesn't have an icon for hspa+ because its a Verizon phone. Might just say 3g. TKe a look at network in the settings and see what it says.
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Click to collapse

You must be in an area that only has band 17 LTE for AT&T. This phone has band 2 and 4 LTE for AT&T and they are unlocked straight from verizon.
I am very interested in this phone but i will wait for the GSM version that will include band 17.
Since it is a Snapdragon phone I'm sure you can QPST unlock all the band. I did it on my G3 pretty painless but you can really mess some things up if you are not careful
thread here http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony/thread-progress-please-leave-im-updating-t2871269
cpufrost said:
Yes I put my ATT sim in the phone.
It comes up with a warning that the sim card you're using is not from Verizon.
You can dismiss it and notice that you will see AT&T instead of Verizon Wireless at the bottom of the home screen.
The data icon shows 3G but speeds are more like HSPA+ speeds.
Voice and SMS not a problem.
I did not try sending a video in a text though.
APNs can be set and even after I did I did not see a 4GLTE icon.
Interestingly enough when I was done and put the Verizon SIM back in, the AT&T APN settings I put in earlier were completely gone, only the Verizon one was showing.
If TMO has a version that would be the one to get as they most likely will NOT have a locked bootloader AND you can walk out without activating at all, just pay cash or charge it, etc.
I have a friend with a TMO and give the associate that number and name on the account and tell the associate it's a gift.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

qwerty12601 said:
aaronc_98 said:
Have you checked your data speeds? The droid turbo doesn't have an icon for hspa+ because its a Verizon phone. Might just say 3g. TKe a look at network in the settings and see what it says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, that makes sense. the icons I have seen are G, 3G, and 4GLTE. I am on LTE most of the time and gotten download speeds of 46Mbs on LTE. When it is on 3G, the network type says UMTS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

aaronc_98 said:
Hey,
I purchased the turbo and popped my t-mo sim in and set the APN for T-mo, and I am getting G, 3G and LTE. I dont seem to be getting HSPA. I get LTE most of the time and normal speeds, like 30MBps. I am really happy to have LTE. I am in minnespolis, so I am not sure which band is coming in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you able to do simultaneous voice and data with the Turbo and the T-Mobile SIM?
Sent from my XT1254

distortedloop said:
Are you able to do simultaneous voice and data with the Turbo and the T-Mobile SIM?
Sent from my XT1254
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes

Since it is a Snapdragon phone I'm sure you can QPST unlock all the band. I did it on my G3 pretty painless but you can really mess some things up if you are not careful
thread here http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony/thread-progress-please-leave-im-updating-t2871269[/QUOTE]
Can't unlock if there's not root or unlocked bootloader....
aaronc_98 said:
qwerty12601 said:
Ok, that makes sense. the icons I have seen are G, 3G, and 4GLTE. I am on LTE most of the time and gotten download speeds of 46Mbs on LTE. When it is on 3G, the network type says UMTS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, HSPA+ is really 3G+ same difference. 3G=HSPA .'4G' = HSPA+
But in reality LTE is really the 4th Gen. In the states here they f'ed the naming so they can sound like it's blazing fast....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gordonzhao said:
Has anyone had the chance to test it on other networks? I know it should work on T-Mobile with lte, but I'm debating whether to hold out a month for a international model, in hopes of it having the right lte bands for T-Mobile and no vzw bloat. Or a dev edition. Anyone else on the same boat?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just bought the phone today and swapped in my Tmobile Nano Sim. Its working perfectly with full LTE in Chicago. I had to add the Apn settings under mobike network to get it to work. Whenever I reboot the phone a notification reminds me that i'm not using a verizon sim. Its easily dismissed. I cant be happier, this is the "Nexus" I wanted all along.

Gettint H+ instead of LTE

Hey guys I have a question, I'm upgrading from a Nexus 6p. On my current provider I have be reviewing LTE on my Nexus I just got my one plus 5 and now I only get h+. Is there some system devices in the devices that allows the Nexus to interpret the h+ as LTE ? Kinda hate seeing the h+ in the corner there.

biglo said:
Hey guys I have a question, I'm upgrading from a Nexus 6p. On my current provider I have be reviewing LTE on my Nexus I just got my one plus 5 and now I only get h+. Is there some system devices in the devices that allows the Nexus to interpret the h+ as LTE ? Kinda hate seeing the h+ in the corner there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not getting LTE... 4G should be displayed for LTE.

Have you updated to 4.5.5 already? 4.5.4 was a fix for vodafone NL users with this exact problem.
Please share country and provider.

Hey guys sorrry for the late reply. I have the latest version of OOS 4.5.5. current country is Turks and Caicos Islands and provider is Flow.

Do you know what LTE bands your carrier uses?

ultramag69 said:
You're not getting LTE... 4G should be displayed for LTE.
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Click to collapse
Mine shown "LTE" for LTE, not 4G. I get the H+ when on HSPA+ (TMobile here, FTR).
I don't think I've ever seen "4G". Maybe it's because TMo has multiple technologies it markets as 4G, so it's ambiguous.

Koodo in Canada also displays 4G+ for LTE. But if on a Telus SIM (same network as Koodo) it shows up as LTE. Speeds are the same. Looks like the OnePlus database for carriers is not really up to date.

sirtrini said:
Koodo in Canada also displays 4G+ for LTE. But if on a Telus SIM (same network as Koodo) it shows up as LTE. Speeds are the same. Looks like the OnePlus database for carriers is not really up to date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah this is what I'm thinking is going on.

yubimusubi said:
Mine shown "LTE" for LTE, not 4G. I get the H+ when on HSPA+ (TMobile here, FTR).
I don't think I've ever seen "4G". Maybe it's because TMo has multiple technologies it markets as 4G, so it's ambiguous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I meant for my country. I live in Oz, here we have 4G.
If LTE/4G was working properly for the OP then either LTE or 4G should be displayed, NOT H+ which is HSDPA (3G) here in Australia.

yubimusubi said:
Mine shown "LTE" for LTE, not 4G. I get the H+ when on HSPA+ (TMobile here, FTR).
I don't think I've ever seen "4G". Maybe it's because TMo has multiple technologies it markets as 4G, so it's ambiguous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I remember I had an HTC One device and when I used it with my carrier I would always get the H+ but when I flashed a rom and selected Tmobile as my carrier the 4G icon showed up for me. I wish I knew where to go to alter these settings to have the H+ show up as LTE or 4G for me like tmobile does or like my Nexus device did. (Even if its fake lol)

geoff5093 said:
Do you know what LTE bands your carrier uses?
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Ok I had some time to do some research today after work and found out the cold hard truth. My carriers LATE band is 13 which is not supported on this device. FML

biglo said:
Ok I had some time to do some research today after work and found out the cold hard truth. My carriers LATE band is 13 which is not supported on this device. FML
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it sucks, that's the main band missing for Verizon as well.

geoff5093 said:
Yeah, it sucks, that's the main band missing for Verizon as well.
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Click to collapse
Yeah I just noticed that after all this searching around, WTF kind of dumb move is that to alienate all those version users like that. Smh the reason why I didn't even take the time out to see if my band was included before purchasing was because of the news the released about how much more LATE bands they were including with this model.