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I've been experience that my battery life has improved ALOT when I charge it while it's on, also when I watch a movie or two and then charge it at the same time, when it reaches 100% I easly get more days out of it.
What's your experience?
This makes sense because the Wall charger has plenty of power to quickly charge the unit, while a USB connection is standard at 5 volts.
So the slower the charge, the longer it takes, the better it hold the charge longer.
In your situtation, you are watching movies while charging... which eats most of the power as it comes in, and supplies the battery with a slower charge; thus increasing the battery life until it drains again.
I do this with my Motorola cheap-o phone. If I power it via USB it'll last like 7 days... but if I charge it via a Wall Charger it'll be dead in 2.
Never really gave that any thought. You think the slower cycles going in, then the harder it is to go out? I'll keep mine playing movies while I'm sleeping then to get a better charge if that's true!
I thought that was very bad for the Batery, actually my laptop's batery is already dead (it drains full batery in less than 3 minutes) and I was using your method during all its live, around 1.5 years.
I noticed that if you use the Diamond during charge it warms up very much, compared to when not using it.
I must say that I noticed that some of the cicles where longer than others with similar or less use, I will test in the nexts days and post back.
player911 said:
This makes sense because the Wall charger has plenty of power to quickly charge the unit, while a USB connection is standard at 5 volts.
So the slower the charge, the longer it takes, the better it hold the charge longer.
In your situtation, you are watching movies while charging... which eats most of the power as it comes in, and supplies the battery with a slower charge; thus increasing the battery life until it drains again.
I do this with my Motorola cheap-o phone. If I power it via USB it'll last like 7 days... but if I charge it via a Wall Charger it'll be dead in 2.
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Click to collapse
ALL Devices like phones charge at a nominal 5v. It's the current that is different.
Wen you charge while the the phone is some way in use it works the battery to max efficiency and this results in a more efficient charge pattern.
Charge your phone whenever you can, never turn it off when charging and top up as often as possible. That will maximise battery life and max the potential capacity.
Don't discharge too low either.
I herd reports from person experiencing better battery life by using a non htc or factory charger. Some also say it takes much longer to charge but are now easily getting two days or longer life than with stock chargers. I want to narrow it down and compare the results.
I want to know what is the output mA. It is usually located on the charger it self where it states the voltage. The factory charger for the N1 is 980 mA and via usb is 480 mA. So those who are experiencing better battery life as a result of the switch, what is your mA on the charger? Also what brand is it?
I suspect this is right!
Whenever I use the stock charger, battery drops really fast, even if not using the phone much.
I'll be measuring this and put here the results.
Please do. I'm gonna try a bb charger tonight and see if it lasts longer.
I can't imagine this being the case. The battery holds a specific charge. I have a motorola charger, 500mA, and when you charge via computer USB you are getting less too. At no point have i had exceptional battery life.
I've used 2 different mains chargers, a car charger and charged from 2 seperate PC's using 2 seperate µUSB cables, battery life remains roughly the same, as you would expect.
I use my Nokia N97 charger rated 5v 1200 mA and it charges the phone from empty quite fast...sometimes from 20-30% i get to 100% in 2 hours flat...i get about 1-1.5 days and haven't tried the standard HTC charger yet cos I feel Nokia's are better quality...i even use the old Nokia usb cable but don't think usb cables make any difference.
Your Nokia adaptor will charge faster due to the extra 200mA available to the phone (assuming it's able to draw it, but given the faster charge you would assume so).
Electricity is electricity.
The only changes you'll see between sources is how fast it charges the battery.
There are no magic chargers that charge the battery a certain way to "last longer".
Higher current chargers get to the "mostly full" state quicker because they are dumping power into the battery faster. But, the protective electronics on Li-Ion batteries will cut to a "topping charge" state sooner because the charge speed is so high. The topping charge level is the same speed regardless of charger and so switching to it earlier means you spend longer in that state.
A lower current charger will take longer to get to the "mostly full" state, but it will get closer to true 100% before the electronics kick into the topping charge mode.
The other thing to consider is that the indicators on devices often indicate "charged" when the phone reaches the "mostly full" state and so the higher current chargers appear to "finish" faster. But, if you look at the charging status you will still see that it is still taking on a charge. If you wait until that stops then you will be at a true 100%.
So, if you need to get the phone to the "mostly full" state then a higher current charger is better for a quick boost. But, if you want to get the phone to a full charge then the current level of the charger may be mostly a wash due to the fact that it has to spend more time in the topping charge mode. If you are charging overnight then it really doesn't matter which you use.
Now, one thing that Li-Ion batteries do not like at all is heat. When you use a higher current charger then you heat the battery more and its eventual life (i.e. how many months/years it will last) will be impacted more than a lower current charger. So, for overnight charging I'd rather use a lower current charger. But, if you need to dump a lot of charge into the battery quickly then a higher current charger is faster if you aren't worried about getting it to the 100% full state. But, for small batteries like in phones, stay less than the rating of the batter (i.e. no higher than a 1400mA charger for a 1400mAH battery). Below that level there should be no appreciable harm to longevity, but even still - the lower the charge rate the better in the long run.
See this page for information on topping charge and charge currents:
http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
See this page for graphs of battery longevity with different charge rates:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
muncheese said:
There are no magic chargers that charge the battery a certain way to "last longer".
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Click to collapse
It is fuzzier than that.
A higher current charger will likely have the device report "I'm charged" with less power in the battery because what it really means is "I'm just doing a topping charge" and that topping charge can still be a good 10% or more of the battery life, especially higher with a stronger charger since the electronics have to be paranoid about over-charging and measuring the current changes that indicate the battery is truly full are harder when the charge rate is higher.
A lower current charger may not trigger the "I'm charged" indicators until it hits 95% full because it is pushing less on the trigger conditions.
If you have a habit of taking the phone off the charger when the indicator first goes green then you may see more battery life on the lower current charger, but it isn't magic - it's just the silly games that battery indicators play to impress the consumers.
Also, if you have a habit of taking it off the charger when it goes green then your battery may never get fully calibrated and so it may only be 70% full when it thinks it is full. But, a lower current charger may get you closer to full more often and thus cause you to reach a calibrated state easier and quicker.
For calibration you should always leave the phone on the charger until well after the light goes green, keeping it on even after the text indicator no longer indicates that any charge is happening (i.e. the lightning bolt is gone) and even then leave it on for a few hours past that anyway. Once calibrated then you have the maximum battery capacity available (modulo the "age" of the battery). It can take several hours to get a phone completely charged if it is poorly calibrated. And sometimes it may even get better with a couple of calibration cycles back to back (but only in extreme cases).
More info:
http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
Two chargers used - one is a mains -> usb charger. (i.e allows USB lead to be used via a mains plug)
Output is 5v @ 1A
Other is a plantronics charger.
Output is [email protected] 350mA.
"Mains" based charger gives around a day's worth of charge with standard use.
The Plantronics gives me 2 days worth at standard use.
There is a fairly clear "boost" in battery life from switching between the two chargers.
Highland3r said:
Two chargers used - one is a mains -> usb charger. (i.e allows USB lead to be used via a mains plug)
Output is 5v @ 1A
Other is a plantronics charger.
Output is [email protected] 350mA.
"Mains" based charger gives around a day's worth of charge with standard use.
The Plantronics gives me 2 days worth at standard use.
There is a fairly clear "boost" in battery life from switching between the two chargers.
Click to expand...
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Well I just finish charing my N1 battery with a universal charger rated @ 200mA. It took over 4hours, I let it stay for 5. With my OEM charger I would get barely a day. So lets see how my battery lasts today.
flarbear said:
Higher current chargers get to the "mostly full" state quicker because they are dumping power into the battery faster. But, the protective electronics on Li-Ion batteries will cut to a "topping charge" state sooner because the charge speed is so high. The topping charge level is the same speed regardless of charger and so switching to it earlier means you spend longer in that state.
A lower current charger will take longer to get to the "mostly full" state, but it will get closer to true 100% before the electronics kick into the topping charge mode.
The other thing to consider is that the indicators on devices often indicate "charged" when the phone reaches the "mostly full" state and so the higher current chargers appear to "finish" faster. But, if you look at the charging status you will still see that it is still taking on a charge. If you wait until that stops then you will be at a true 100%.
So, if you need to get the phone to the "mostly full" state then a higher current charger is better for a quick boost. But, if you want to get the phone to a full charge then the current level of the charger may be mostly a wash due to the fact that it has to spend more time in the topping charge mode. If you are charging overnight then it really doesn't matter which you use.
Now, one thing that Li-Ion batteries do not like at all is heat. When you use a higher current charger then you heat the battery more and its eventual life (i.e. how many months/years it will last) will be impacted more than a lower current charger. So, for overnight charging I'd rather use a lower current charger. But, if you need to dump a lot of charge into the battery quickly then a higher current charger is faster if you aren't worried about getting it to the 100% full state. But, for small batteries like in phones, stay less than the rating of the batter (i.e. no higher than a 1400mA charger for a 1400mAH battery). Below that level there should be no appreciable harm to longevity, but even still - the lower the charge rate the better in the long run.
See this page for information on topping charge and charge currents:
http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
See this page for graphs of battery longevity with different charge rates:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
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Click to collapse
Great points indeed. I've learning alot and thanks for the links.
Looking for a "safe" range here..
I downloaded CurrentWidget to see how much current the phone is drawing while using various charging methods.
So:
- using the stock charger at home w/ a 10' usb cable (recommended from a site by many on xda) it hovers around 160 mA - charges slowly, but charges.
- using my computer w/ the stock cable it fluctuates between high-200 mA - mid-400 mA.
- using the stock charger at work w/ the stock cable it fluctuate between mid-400 mA up to high-800 mA AND the phone reaches 115-degrees from around 87-degrees in a few minutes! On top of that, it charges VERY quickly, however, sometimes, even though it says 'charging' the battery % is actually going down! As if all that power is draining the battery!
- using a car charger left over from my old, old Treo 800w, it fluctuates between mid-400 mA and mid-600 mA (temp always normal).
So my question is: what is a safe range for the current to be drawn at and why does the stock charger/usb cable seem to chaotic at times?
I don't really know much about electricity and currents and all that so if I'm using the wrong terminology, forgive me..
Thanks!
Three reasons for the current to fluctuate:
1. Current widget may not be accurate
2. Background processes may be eating some of the charge being supplied- especially radio signal fluctuations
3. The battery will resist charge as it fills causing the charge current to be reduced.
Also, HTC and many other vendors use the usb pins to determine whether you are connected to a charger that can supply sufficient power, usb is rated at only 500ma,while the charger can supply up to 1000ma.
(For reference, the ipad charges at 2A).
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to charge at a high rate, since its common practice. In fact, folks have reported that the battery level goes down when using google navigate without a high power charger.
Finally, the Evo has an overheat circuit that will cutoff charge if the battery gets too hot.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
This is interesting. My guess on the reboot issues is that it seems similar to how a computer acts when capacitors start pooping due to heat.
I always let my phone charge 8 hours while I sleep.
If it gets up to 115 degrees and stays there for 8 hours, that could maybe cause damage???
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Today, it's been working fine. It's an on-and-off thing... Oh well, long as my phone doesn't start to melt I guess I'm fine.
typeadam said:
Looking for a "safe" range here..
I downloaded CurrentWidget to see how much current the phone is drawing while using various charging methods.
So:
- using the stock charger at home w/ a 10' usb cable (recommended from a site by many on xda) it hovers around 160 mA - charges slowly, but charges.
- using my computer w/ the stock cable it fluctuates between high-200 mA - mid-400 mA.
- using the stock charger at work w/ the stock cable it fluctuate between mid-400 mA up to high-800 mA AND the phone reaches 115-degrees from around 87-degrees in a few minutes! On top of that, it charges VERY quickly, however, sometimes, even though it says 'charging' the battery % is actually going down! As if all that power is draining the battery!
- using a car charger left over from my old, old Treo 800w, it fluctuates between mid-400 mA and mid-600 mA (temp always normal).
So my question is: what is a safe range for the current to be drawn at and why does the stock charger/usb cable seem to chaotic at times?
I don't really know much about electricity and currents and all that so if I'm using the wrong terminology, forgive me..
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rule of thumb is to not supply the battery more than 70% rate of current of the battery's capacity. for instance, if the battery's capacity is 1000mAh, the charger should not exceed a charge rate of 700mAh.
imo, the stock charger is a tad too fast (1000mAh/1500mAh = 67%). i hardly ever use the stock charger and charge either via usb (~500mAh) or an external charger i bought on ebay rated at 800mAh. a slower charge also provides a more quality charge and will extend the charge as well as the life of the battery. the faster a battery charges, the hotter it will get. heat is the enemy with batteries.
try charging with just usb for a couple days and i guarantee you will see an increase in battery life (all other things constant of course). better yet, pick up an external charger off ebay and get even better results - even more quality charge since it is not discharging and charging at the same time. i strictly use an external charger and can hang on to 100% for over 4 hours w/o use.
Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.
14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.
@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
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Click to collapse
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday
Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
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Click to collapse
It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
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Click to collapse
Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
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Click to collapse
I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
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Click to collapse
Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
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Click to collapse
Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
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Have a nice day, all of you except one.
youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.
zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
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Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
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Click to collapse
1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.
how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.
Hopeless.
I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
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yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.
Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
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There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
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crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
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Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.