bluetooth dac? - LG V20 Questions & Answers

I just plugged in a cheap pair of headphones and wow, the sound is amazing using the hifi dac. I don't know much about it but I have a much better pair of Sony bluetooth headphones, is there any work around to use the hifi with bluetooth?

I don't believe so. I could be wrong but I very much doubt it.
Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

This is a post from reddit user /u/codefyre explaining why the DAC can't be used over bluetooth (this was related to the v10, but applies to the v20 as well):
Not possible. Nutshell explanation:
All audio, the audio you hear with your actual ear, is analog. Sound is an analog vibration through the air.
The audio recordings in your phone are digital. MP3, MP4, whatever. Unless you're listening to an old record or cassette recording, you're playback source is digital.
The DAC is a Digital Analog Converter. A high quality DAC converts high quality digital audio into high quality analog audio. A higher quality DAC generates a better reconstruction of the original analog signal. Because wired headphones are analog, they simply transform the analog electrical signal into analog speaker vibrations.
If you think about this for a moment, you should understand why it can't be used with Bluetooth. BT is a digital protocol, so the connection between your phone and your Bluetooth receiver is digital. Bluetooth receivers typically perform an on-chip conversion of the digital signal to an analog output during playback. Some high quality BT speakers have onboard 24 bit and 32 bit DAC's to improve the fidelity of their audio output.
So, if the V10 allowed the DAC to be used with Bluetooth, your signal would be Digital Source - > Analog 32 bit HiFi DAC -> Digital Bluetooth -> Analog Output. Because your audio quality is limited by the lowest fidelity step in the reproduction chain, your final output quality is never going to exceed the fidelity of the conversion in your Bluetooth device. And because the analog -> digital conversion actually lowers audio quality, the highest quality Bluetooth playback can be achieved by keeping the signal digital until it reaches the output device. Running the signal through the HiFi DAC would actually result in lower quality Bluetooth audio.
If you want to match the quality of the HiFi DAC using Bluetooth, you'll need to buy a Bluetooth receiver with a high quality onboard DAC of its own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Couldn't have got a better answer, thank you.

Related

Boost Bluetooth sound quality/loudness???

HI All,
I only ever use my I9505 for Bluetooth audio. There is plenty of apps out there that boost the sound quality and loudness for headphone jacks and the phones speaker itself, but i am finding it hard to find any that deal with Bluetooth audio...
I currently connect to:
1) Bluetooth for my car - for music and calls
2) Bluetooth for my headphones i use at the gym - for music only
Any suggestions on how to get some better sound quality / loudness?
I currently use Player Pro music player - which has a DSP Sound Equaliser pack - but i am not too sure on how to fine tune that... It seems that the quality drops dramatically when i incease the volume too much?
Cheers
Not aware that any apps can help with quality, although there may be some that can help with Volume like Volume+ (although I'm not sure if they will affect bluetooth).
To increase sound quality I would recommend getting an Apt-X enabled bluetooth headphone/receiver (I use the HS3000 which has Apt-X, is relatively inexpensive and quite versatile since you can plug in whichever earphones/headphones you want or even connect it to speakers/stereos via a 3.5mm-3.5mm cable). The Sony one you have doesn't have Apt-X so is not able to take advantage of the S4s Apt-X capability.

[Q] Question: Loudness of music through BT streaming vs. headphone output

Just curious, say you've set the volume level of your car at a certain level. Then you set up your 2015 X to stream music to the car. How loud is that compared to plugging your phone's headphone output to the car's AUX input, without changing the car's speaker volume?
From my experience itsbvirtually the same. Although my Bluetooth dongle just broke andbi ordered an in car dlna setup to replace it instead so I can't test itbnow

Optical audio out (spdif/toslink)

(sorry I can't post any links, but you can google the words in bold)
Are there any Android head units that support optical audio out?
I've been researching the last few nights (hours!) for a WIRED way to get a toslink optical cable to a Audison Prima AP8.9 Amp/DSP.
Are there any electrical engineers out there who have thought about bypassing the onboard DAC to get digital output?
Or.... is my only option to provide <96kHz optical audio to get an AptX lossless Bluetooth receiver like the Neet AptX lossless bluetooth receiver. Can anyone share experience on how well the Android units perform constantly connected to a BT receiver for all car audio? Esp. if you have the new Pumpkins with the Parrot BT card, in case that improves things.
Thanks!
I'm looking for the same answer, i've installed the neet receiver, but unfortunate for me, the head unit does not connect. I don't think it can be used as transmitter.
I've found this, but I don't know if it works...
http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/158/index.html
You all may be overthinking this. Turns out plenty of modern android devices can use standard USB audio hardware. You just need an OTG cable, and the kind of USB audio output device that doesn't need a specialized driver under Windows or Linux. I've hooked up many different USB audio dongles you my Galaxy S3 and S4. The S4 wouldn't charge while hooked through the particular OTG cable, but the S3 does. As a matter of fact, I've been using it as the media player in my car for years.
Admittedly, I've only used the optical out on some of my devices occasionally, but I imagine it would still work for most.
Update: Not all supposed "OTG" cables work. This is the one I bought in Jan 2014 that works for both audio and charging on my S3 with CyanogenMod 11: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009YPYORM/
Today I received an Android 6.0 Head Unit from A-Sure for an Audi A3. I connected a Terratec Aureon Dual USB DAC. I got sound, but couldn't control the volume. Changing the android system volume had no effect.
I am considering spending a couple of bucks on the app "USB Audio Player PRO" and test it again. If this doesn't work, i will have to return the unit.
Greetings from Germany
So i had to return the Head Unit. I tried a different one by "Skandinav", with this one there was no sound at all from the USB DAC
retlaps said:
Today I received an Android 6.0 Head Unit from A-Sure for an Audi A3. I connected a Terratec Aureon Dual USB DAC. I got sound, but couldn't control the volume. Changing the android system volume had no effect.
I am considering spending a couple of bucks on the app "USB Audio Player PRO" and test it again. If this doesn't work, i will have to return the unit.
Greetings from Germany
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
You need to connect to DAC with digital volume control like Helix DSP Pro
Greetings from Singapore
daviestar said:
(sorry I can't post any links, but you can google the words in bold)
Are there any Android head units that support optical audio out?
I've been researching the last few nights (hours!) for a WIRED way to get a toslink optical cable to a Audison Prima AP8.9 Amp/DSP.
Are there any electrical engineers out there who have thought about bypassing the onboard DAC to get digital output?
Or.... is my only option to provide <96kHz optical audio to get an AptX lossless Bluetooth receiver like the Neet AptX lossless bluetooth receiver. Can anyone share experience on how well the Android units perform constantly connected to a BT receiver for all car audio? Esp. if you have the new Pumpkins with the Parrot BT card, in case that improves things.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, you can connect to the DAC, thereby outputting digital audio from applications and transport flash drive.
this can be done not only with android devices, but also with conventional tape recorder, some installations you can look at my YouTube channel
unfortunately links for new users are forbidden, you can search by my nickname - "jonjonni toslink Евгений Фещенко"
daviestar said:
(sorry I can't post any links, but you can google the words in bold)
Are there any Android head units that support optical audio out?
I've been researching the last few nights (hours!) for a WIRED way to get a toslink optical cable to a Audison Prima AP8.9 Amp/DSP.
Are there any electrical engineers out there who have thought about bypassing the onboard DAC to get digital output?
Or.... is my only option to provide <96kHz optical audio to get an AptX lossless Bluetooth receiver like the Neet AptX lossless bluetooth receiver. Can anyone share experience on how well the Android units perform constantly connected to a BT receiver for all car audio? Esp. if you have the new Pumpkins with the Parrot BT card, in case that improves things.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, don't fall into this hole. (warning to new users)
I have the Prima dac/amp, and the sound is amazing, and it can be connected to an Android phone via OTG to Toslink adapter, or via Bluetooth adapter with Toslink out, but it has one very nasty issue: when the amp is starting, and there is no Toslink signal, it won't register the connection. So if you later connect your phone, you have to cycle through the input sources Digital->Aux->Master->Digital to again register your connection.
So unless you connect your phone or turn on your BT receiver _before_ you start the car up, you will need to fiddle with cycling the source (while also driving the car). (That is if you also have the optional control unit with a display.)
Why they designed the device this way is just beyond me.
I hope its all right to join an old discussion.
I have a similar problem, I want to connect an android head unit in my car to an external digital amplifier. The amplifier itself have SPDIF input (mosconi GALDEN Pico 12 channels https://mosconi-system.it/product/gladen-pico-812-dsp/) but I can't find an android head unit running Android 10 with SPDIF output for my car. I've found converting card USB->SPIDF (for example: https://www.amazon.com/Douk-Audio-C...1&keywords=usb+to+spdif&qid=1617899902&sr=8-3) but I still missing some points:
-In Android 10, how do I switch all audio outputs to the converting card? Is it a part of the Android or external application?
-What happen when playing multi channel media (such as 5.1)? does each channel transfer on each on?
-Is it possible to use the same method to BT? The Pico have an optional BT card.
Thanks in advance, Haim
haim_gds said:
-In Android 10, how do I switch all audio outputs to the converting card? Is it a part of the Android or external application?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android usually automatically switches to USB audio when found, but many implementations do not. Sometimes there's a setting in the developer menu for prioritizing USB audio, but sometimes that doesn't do anything.
USB audio of any kind is not supported on my Sony X800D Android TV.
haim_gds said:
-What happen when playing multi channel media (such as 5.1)? does each channel transfer on each on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multichannel USB sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. Certainly it can work, such as on many Android TV implementations like NVIDIA shield.
haim_gds said:
-Is it possible to use the same method to BT? The Pico have an optional BT card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multichannel Bluetooth is not a standard, although some implementations like enhanced aptX can support it.
Have you also considered that SPDIF surround is always encoded, and thus is output at a fixed volume? Your head unit would not be able to control the volume; it would have to be done after decoding, like at the power amplifier stage.
MarkerB said:
Android usually automatically switches to USB audio when found, but many implementations do not. Sometimes there's a setting in the developer menu for prioritizing USB audio, but sometimes that doesn't do anything.
USB audio of any kind is not supported on my Sony X800D Android TV.
Multichannel USB sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. Certainly it can work, such as on many Android TV implementations like NVIDIA shield.
Multichannel Bluetooth is not a standard, although some implementations like enhanced aptX can support it.
Have you also considered that SPDIF surround is always encoded, and thus is output at a fixed volume? Your head unit would not be able to control the volume; it would have to be done after decoding, like at the power amplifier stage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know of if it's possible to allow the headunits to play higher than 48khz resolution through the optical or coax outputs ?
dfal47 said:
Do you know of if it's possible to allow the headunits to play higher than 48khz resolution through the optical or coax outputs ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to ask - what
marchnz said:
Have to ask - what
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The unit forces 24b 48khz audio, coaxial can output 192khz tracks and optical upto 96khz . Higher resolution audio output.
Neutron or UAPP will allow higher resolution, but you'll probably lose Navi directions as those programs bypass the android audio layer and mixer.
Basically you need a high resolution non- Android media player, with a navi input and mixer, that also has an spdif output.
The Alpine UTX-A09 looks like it can do that, assuming it isn't Android based /doesn't force 16/48 output from all sources when the mixer is enabled (in non "Alpine Direct" mode). Looks like the Alpine pxe-x09 has a mixer, so it should also be able to mix in navigation instructions.
Some of the Helix DSPs may mix or prioritize different inputs - the documentation isn't clear.
If you use spdif connection vs optical you run the risk of creating a ground loop unless the source is floating ie running on its battery power.
You can blow out all your high frequency drivers in a second if the ground loop creates feedback oscillations.
A common ground point may or may not prevent it. Using toslink to couple eliminates this potential issue.
For car hookups best practice to use heavy gauge wire for positive* feed, preferably coming directly from the battery for high wattage amps, source auxiliary equipment from the same end point. Do not daisy chain.
Same is true with home hifi, avoid using spdif cables to couple amps, preamps, receivers, cable boxes, etc. Amps, recievers are designed to be floating and not connected to ground. Do mix earth grounded and floating equipment unless connected by toslink only ie a tower PC with a 3 prong plug and a reciever (2 prong plug, floating).
*if you use a chassis grounding point, use only one and do not daisy chain!
dfal47 said:
Do you know of if it's possible to allow the headunits to play higher than 48khz resolution through the optical or coax outputs ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the delay.
DTS has had 96kHz/24 bit for many years, and they work through any SPDIF interface... as you wanted. They don't actually change the hardware interface speed, but rather encode the extra data into the sales 48kHz stream.
I've never bothered to encode anything with it, because I'm guessing it actually makes compression worse. You're squeezing much more data through the same early 90s compression algorithm, and DTS is already lossy enough. Factor-in that higher sample rates are not detectable in blind tests, and it just seems like a bad idea.
Hmm... Unless the 96kHz/24 bit extension algorithm is much more efficient at compression, considering it was introduced much later than the base DTS algorithms in 1991, and may have leveraged more recent technologies. In that case, it would definitely be the better choice. Unfortunately, I haven't read anything about this possibility.
Good reading on the 96kHz/24 bit topic:
DTS (company) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Get the Rundown on the DTS 96/24 Audio Format
DTS 96/24 is part of the DTS family of audio formats but it's rather rare since the advent of Blu-ray Disc.
www.lifewire.com
Bumping an old, but good, thread. I have exactly the same amp (well, the 5.9), and an Android unit with a TOSlink port - but it seems to be turned off as I can’t see any light coming from the TOSlink cable. Any idea how to turn it on?
I have a FiiO as a backup but prefer not to do SPDIF because I need another device for the Audison to take SPDIF input …
MarkerB said:
Sorry for the delay.
DTS has had 96kHz/24 bit for many years, and they work through any SPDIF interface... as you wanted. They don't actually change the hardware interface speed, but rather encode the extra data into the sales 48kHz stream.
I've never bothered to encode anything with it, because I'm guessing it actually makes compression worse. You're squeezing much more data through the same early 90s compression algorithm, and DTS is already lossy enough. Factor-in that higher sample rates are not detectable in blind tests, and it just seems like a bad idea.
Hmm... Unless the 96kHz/24 bit extension algorithm is much more efficient at compression, considering it was introduced much later than the base DTS algorithms in 1991, and may have leveraged more recent technologies. In that case, it would definitely be the better choice. Unfortunately, I haven't read anything about this possibility.
Good reading on the 96kHz/24 bit topic:
DTS (company) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Get the Rundown on the DTS 96/24 Audio Format
DTS 96/24 is part of the DTS family of audio formats but it's rather rare since the advent of Blu-ray Disc.
www.lifewire.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Toslink can support 24 bit/192 khz.
Optical coupling is preferred as it carries no risk of creating ground loops; optical isolation.
A ground loop can smoke (literally) all your tweeters and maybe the power amp in a second.
blackhawk said:
Toslink can support 24 bit/192 khz.
Optical coupling is preferred as it carries no risk of creating ground loops; optical isolation.
A ground loop can smoke (literally) all your tweeters and maybe the power amp in a second.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you accidentally replied to the wrong post. My topic was about the quality of the DTS 96kHz/24 bit encode, which is completely independent of which of the two physical SPDIF interfaces is used.

The ZTE Axon 7's audio

Hello,
So I'm using the Axon 7 for a few days now and I'm really happy with this device so far.
I listen to music quite a lot myself with Spotify Premium (Extreme Quality) and I do believe that the non-rooted stock Axon 7 ROM provides amazing sound already.
On my previous devices I'd have to unlock the bootloader(, disable system write protection), root and install Viper4Android to get similar audio quality.
I guess I could improve the sound quality even more with Viper4Android now but I don't want to mess with my phone and warranty yet.
There seem to be four audio settings this phone can have on the stock ROM without root:
(1) Dolby Atmos
(2) Headset Standard Hi-Fi audio
(3) Headset Super audio
(4) Nothing? Default?
So I'm guessing the audio settings work like this (excluding sound being played from a Bluetooth device because I don't have such device so I don't know):
(a) Is Dolby Atmos enabled?
Yes, phone uses (1).
No, go to (b).
(b) Is the sound being played through the phone's built-in speakers?
Yes, phone uses (4).
No, go to (c).
(c) So sound is being played from the 3,5 mm audio jack. Is Headset Super audio selected in 'Sound and Vibration' in the phone's settings?
Yes, phone uses (3).
No, phone uses (2).
My opinion when using the:
- phone speakers, the audio sounds better with Dolby Atmos disabled. (Maximum volume seems higher with Dolby Atmos disabled too)
- 3,5 mm audio jack, the audio sounds better with Dolby Atmos enabled with speakerboxes/headphones/earphones.
- 3,5 mm audio jack with Dolby Atmos disabled, the audio sounds the same when comparing Super audio with Standard Hi-Fi audio with speakerboxes/headphones/earphones. (Super Audio is much more amplified though)
Maximum volume differences in my opinion (bigger = louder):
With phone's built in speakers: Nothing/Default > Dolby Atmos
With 3,5 mm audio jack in use: Super audio > Dolby Atmos > Standard Hi-Fi audio
So I wonder what the real difference is between Super audio and Standard Hi-Fi audio except for the amplification.
It would be nice if someone who knows about this could explain me
It seems that Dolby Atmos doesn't work together with the Super audio/Standard Hi-Fi audio settings.
So you can only use one of the three at a time with a headset for instance where Dolby Atmos overrides the Super audio/Standard Hi-Fi audio setting.
I'd love to see some combination like Dolby Atmos + Super audio purely for the amplification only.
And I wonder how the independant dual Hi-Fi chips work like.
Why 2 chips? Is it 1 for audio output/playing and 1 for audio input/recording?
Or maybe 1 for the right audio output channel and 1 for the the left audio output channel?
Do(es) the chip(s) work for all audio output options?
So do(es) the chip(s) work for the phone's built-in speakers as well as for the 3,5 mm audio jack output?
I know this phone is capable of recording in Hi-Fi quality but is that also true if a microphone is connected through the 3,5 mm audio jack?
I don't know so much about the purpose of the independant dual Hi-Fi chips really...
I guess I'm not really the only one wondering about these things or the only one being interested in these things, so if anyone could clarify it, well that would be great!
Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Abiram26
Why 2 chips? Is it 1 for audio output/playing and 1 for audio input/recording?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct.
Find answers to your few questions here.
http://www.androidauthority.com/taking-audio-next-level-zte-axon-7-706898/
Probably ZTE use 2 DACs because they haven't found single ADC chip in AKM list or wanted to provide less power consumption solution too.
---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------
Regarding different amplification between Super audio and Standard Hi-Fi. I think it is due to only one reason. It indicates that user did change something otherwise no one can hear the difference under normal noise circumstances listening average quality music. There is no technical reason at all.
I am wondering also about the :
- "standard" Hi-Fi
and
- "super (as in superior) enhanced audio performance" Hi-Fi
I think its more than amping ...the soundstage open up. DSP? 32 bit resample?

Bluetooth Music Quality

How the does bluetooth sound for you guys? Mine seems to be worse after the B29 update (not for certain that's when it degraded). I have a decent car stereo setup, but bluetooth distorts and crackles in the mids and highs. It's not unlistenable, but I thought my stereo was on the fritz until I used my 3.5mm input from the headphone jack, which sounds just fine. It can't be that the DAC is that much better, as my other phones sounds fine and this used to.
Do you have any thoughts or experience with something besides a small bluetooth speaker?
And I have tried playing with the Dolby settings. They make no difference with the distortion.
After some perfunctory tests I have noted that Bluetooth audio seems to introduce a significant amount of extra noise at high volumes. Aside from the additional background noise I have not noticed distortions with Bluetooth yet. I have only checked this on B29.
PiArc said:
After some perfunctory tests I have noted that Bluetooth audio seems to introduce a significant amount of extra noise at high volumes. Aside from the additional background noise I have not noticed distortions with Bluetooth yet. I have only checked this on B29.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just something to try...I have a BT device hooked to my AVR, and when I stream through that, if I have the volume on my phone up it sounds horrible. If I stream through it with the volume up just 1 click of the volume button, it sounds good. I increase volume at the AVR instead of the phone.
Through Bluetooth hands free working flawlessly to my.(A2017G version)
I'm having 2 LG 1100/2 Sony SBH 80 and 2 SBH 20.
Haven't try it with external speakers(since I don't own any kind) and on my car I'm using the handsfree and not connected to the car audio system.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I have a A2017G on B05 and a somewhat cheap aukey BT headset: it seems to sound fine for me, no crackling or hissing. Have you tried it on different devices to compare?
A2017U on B29, using Jaybirds Bluebuds X, the sound its great, no distortion or cracking.
I use the Bluetooth on my car stereo too and the sound is excellent. No dolby, but the equalizer works fine.
Did you verify that all your bluetooth devices supports aptx? if not then you will lose sound quality :S
idk, i dont like bluetooth audio streaming... even with aptx. Its not bad but if you want to steam flac music it will still limit the quality. Somehow if i stream the music via bluetooths aptx it sound flat not dynmic and
voluminous.
I haven't tried it with the volume just below full. I'll give it a shot in the morning on my commute.
Other devices (S5 and 6P) sound just fine when paired to my headed unit, so it's likely something with my Axon 7.
-----
Quick test with the volume just under full seemed better. I'll know more after a drive tomorrow. Thanks everyone.
yamils said:
A2017U on B29, using Jaybirds Bluebuds X, the sound its great, no distortion or cracking.
I use the Bluetooth on my car stereo too and the sound is excellent. No dolby, but the equalizer works fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EQ on on your car stereo or phone? I don't know of an EQ on the phone (maybe I've overlooked something).
admrusty said:
EQ on on your car stereo or phone? I don't know of an EQ on the phone (maybe I've overlooked something).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the phone. I meant to say that it's not using the HiFi audio, but the Dolby eq it's fine on Bluetooth. Sorry for the confusion.
I think it sounds about 95% better just one click below full volume. I never would have thought that digital Bluetooth volume would have been the problem, having always set it to 100% with every other device. Thankfully, Tasker makes for a quick fix.
Thanks for the tips and feedback, everyone.

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