I own a few expensive headphones and IEM's that cost more than this phone.. Why does SUPER ALWAYS sound worse than standard in the hifi sound option? Super sounds muffled on every earpiece I used.. Its like its backwards or something..
so is standard the snapdragon DaC and Super is AKM dac? Or is both AKM? Mostly bought this phone for its audio capabilities, I ride over 100 miles a week on a cycle and always tune out.
HELP!!!
velvethammer said:
I own a few expensive headphones and IEM's that cost more than this phone.. Why does SUPER ALWAYS sound worse than standard in the hifi sound option? Super sounds muffled on every earpiece I used.. Its like its backwards or something..
so is standard the snapdragon DaC and Super is AKM dac? Or is both AKM? Mostly bought this phone for its audio capabilities, I ride over 100 miles a week on a cycle and always tune out.
HELP!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also interested in the answer to this, I thought I was going insane as on my custom IEMS standard sounds better than super which seems muffled but if I swap to a pair of cheaper earphones then super gives better results.
Want to know what each of these modes do in terms of DAC or filter being used?
Super sounds waayyyyy better than default on my A2017G using OnePlus Icons.
I should know as a music producer and audiophile.
The sound is a lot deeper and thicker. Also the bass is a lot cleaner and the high frequencies are also more clear and less 'dull'
keessonnema said:
Super sounds waayyyyy better than default on my A2017G using OnePlus Icons.
I should know as a music producer and audiophile.
The sound is a lot deeper and thicker. Also the bass is a lot cleaner and the high frequencies are also more clear and less 'dull'
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Click to collapse
I'd like to know how others are finding the difference between standard and super headset hifi. Pls also post what earphones/headphones you are using for this.
For me, JH Roxannes and Sony EX1000 sound better with standard. If I use Westone UM30 pro then the opposite effect, super sound better.
I can't believe the phone can tell the difference between 2 earphones and would change super and standard accordingly.
beyerdynamics custom one pro.
no dolby.
with super the instruments sound a lot clearer (except for the increased volume in bass frequencies) as in i hear every single vibration of an instrument. e.g. when a hi hat is hit i audibly "see" how it swings.
I don't use dolby either but standard sounds better on my Roxannes than super. Same effects as you experience but on standard vs super. Highs/Mids/Bass sound clearer in standard. Super sounds muffled in comparison and bass is increased but muddy.
Unless standard and Super are reversed on the chinese version A2017?
May be my earlier post in other thread can help to answer to your question regarding DAC.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/axon-7/how-to/stock-music-player-t3474463/post69069304#post69069304
The only thing is not clear yet is the analog part. I suppose that it is in separated, already not named chip and both DACs drive same amplifier. The volume difference between Standard and Super would be because of different analog signal level. It is my opinion but either I can imagine that it is on purpose indicating that something happened.
Why do you hear standard sounds better than Super? I don't know. I checked how standard sounds (good) but I always use super mode.
I brought this up in a previous thread, glad it's still being discussed.
One issue lies in confirmation bias. Anyone doing testing on their own and knowingly switching between Standard and Super could have psychologically skewed the results. Since the software named one setting "Super", the weight of average users opinions may bias towards that. The only way to truly test it would be to have a full blind test done.
Since even I don't want to bother anyone to help me set up such an involved test, I did some rudimentary testing with my Shure SRH840, Sony 7506, and Triple Fi 10. I'm finding that Super increases the overall volume, as well as increasing mid-bass response and some treble.
I have an unsubstantiated theory on this. First, Super setting could be a sales tactic equalizer designed to "wow" the average consumer. It's a well known audio industry strategy that preys on the human brain's tendency to rate slightly louder audio sources as higher in quality.
Secondly, this setting could be designed to give perceived improvements using low quality headphones. The fact that several of us observe increased mid-bass and treble, areas that cheap headphones sometimes severly lack, may be an indicator. Let's not forget that in the box, the Axon comes with a cheap set of headphones that are many buyers' first audio experience on this phone, which ZTE would want to leave an impression.
If this is true, it makes sense that many of us with higher end headphones with more accurately balanced frqeuency response would find the Super setting to be inferior in use. Again, none of my claims can be confirmed unless professional testing equipment and a blind test method is used.
I remain skeptical in regards to questions of this setting toggling between a Snapdragon DAC and a Axon specific Hi-fi DAC. When quickly switching between Standard and Super, there's virtually no pause in the audio playback, with linear fade outs and fade ins. It seems odd that if the phone was truly switching between sending the audio to two different hardware chips, a more prominent pause in audio playback should occur.
So is it true that you cannot use Dolby and process audio using the AKM DAC at the same time? I read that somewhere, you can use either one or the other
trace1er said:
So is it true that you cannot use Dolby and process audio using the AKM DAC at the same time? I read that somewhere, you can use either one or the other
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that's not true, it may have come about from Poweramp users. If DVC is disabled in Poweramp then Dolby can be used. I assume that Poweramp uses the AKM dac.
I'm curious how the Axon 7 is setup. If only the AKM dac is enabled or if the S820 dac is also enabled. I can't work out if or how to switch between them. If there is any way to show which dac is in use that would be great as it's all guessing right now.
Kantana said:
I believe that's not true, it may have come about from Poweramp users. If DVC is disabled in Poweramp then Dolby can be used. I assume that Poweramp uses the AKM dac.
I'm curious how the Axon 7 is setup. If only the AKM dac is enabled or if the S820 dac is also enabled. I can't work out if or how to switch between them. If there is any way to show which dac is in use that would be great as it's all guessing right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be a good thing. Wonder if there's an app to do it, or possible to make one.
Kantana said:
. ... if the S820 dac is also enabled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't.
obladi64 said:
It isn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's the case then no concern over super vs standard. Both modes use the AKM dac and the difference being heard is software/filters/dsp being applied
We could push the argument to say that standard is the pure output out of the dac with no coloration being added so no surprise this sounds most transparent, clear with decent earphones.
Super would be for lower quality earphones to add back elevated bass/highs so artificially compensating for hardware defecits.
Kantana said:
If that's the case then no concern over super vs standard. Both modes use the AKM dac and the difference being heard is software/filters/dsp being applied
We could push the argument to say that standard is the pure output out of the dac with no coloration being added so no surprise this sounds most transparent, clear with decent earphones.
Super would be for lower quality earphones to add back elevated bass/highs so artificially compensating for hardware defecits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all.
I've tested with several headphones and the super settings adds a lot more depth. Default sounds a bit flat. Not in terms of bass or treble, but widening, clearance, and especially the low-end sounds a lot muddier.
Kantana said:
If that's the case then no concern over super vs standard. Both modes use the AKM dac and the difference being heard is software/filters/dsp being applied
We could push the argument to say that standard is the pure output out of the dac with no coloration being added so no surprise this sounds most transparent, clear with decent earphones.
Super would be for lower quality earphones to add back elevated bass/highs so artificially compensating for hardware defecits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exatly. If you use flat mode there is no colorisatin in both. As I know 4491 is not able to oversample and convert 16 or 24 bit to 32. 4490 is able to. It should make sound better theoretically. Beyond these 4490 has many switchable filter option. Don't mix it with DSP. Usually it is called soft or sharp mode etc mode. Unfortunately ZTE doesn't make it availabe for user and I don't know what is the default selected option but difference between these option is so tiny that you can judge just after long term listening if you can at all.
Kantana said:
I don't use dolby either but standard sounds better on my Roxannes than super. Same effects as you experience but on standard vs super. Highs/Mids/Bass sound clearer in standard. Super sounds muffled in comparison and bass is increased but muddy.
Unless standard and Super are reversed on the chinese version A2017?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something is wrong with your phone in particular. Reset it or send it back.
I saw a friend with Axon 7 dealing with exact same issue.
I got mine and its working like its supposed to. Super enhances the sound and dolby gives the open dynamics.
Kantana said:
If that's the case then no concern over super vs standard. Both modes use the AKM dac and the difference being heard is software/filters/dsp being applied
We could push the argument to say that standard is the pure output out of the dac with no coloration being added so no surprise this sounds most transparent, clear with decent earphones.
Super would be for lower quality earphones to add back elevated bass/highs so artificially compensating for hardware defecits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not both mode use AKM DAC but use different type of AKM DAC. 4490 is more enhanced than standard 4691. 4490 can oversample and convert bit depth but I already said it in earlier post. There is no software trick to make it "better" on cheap headphones. A7 was made for audiophiles too, why would they have done that? For this purpose a tone control would have been enough. I suggest to check how another A7 phones sound, may be yours has problem.
Otherwise today I listen music in standard mode too. Comparison was a bit difficult because I cannot set same volume level. The difference is 1.5 click between two mode. Never mind my intension was and long term test. I played only CD quality music and there is no question about that both DAC sound very good but differently. Standard sounds like typical CD player. It is a typical sterile digital sound. The Super is full with air and space. Everything is more clear and enjoyable. It sounds analog way. After this I don't know whether is it worth to compare with HD audio record too?
Now that would be a surprise to me as I saw AK4490 was used as DAC for playback but AK4961 was used as ADC for recording. I never considered they would have both wired for standard n super.
Where can we find supporting documents for these 2 modes since even manual skips on details and just says you can change it within headset hifi?
Kantana said:
Now that would be a surprise to me as I saw AK4490 was used as DAC for playback but AK4961 was used as ADC for recording. I never considered they would have both wired for standard n super.
Where can we find supporting documents for these 2 modes since even manual skips on details and just says you can change it within headset hifi?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4691 is ADC and DAC in one chip while 4490 is only DAC. I haven't found well detailed document. All you can do in this question is that you read ZTE and AKM releases carefully. Also you can find some detail on site like Android Authority or Youtube etc.
obladi64 said:
4691 is ADC and DAC in one chip while 4490 is only DAC. I haven't found well detailed document. All you can do in this question is that you read ZTE and AKM releases carefully. Also you can find some detail on site like Android Authority or Youtube etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From ZTE site, it looks confusing:
Playback
Sound Playback Codecs: Dolby Atmos® + Dolby Digital Plus (7+1 Surround Sound)
Sampling Frequency: 384 kHz
THD+N: '112dB
S/N: 120 dB
Recording
Channel: 3 channel (HiFi),1 channel (VAD)
Resolution: 32 bit as per spec (24 bit as per performance)
Sampling Frequency: 96 kHz
MIC max input: 2.02 Vpp
S/N ADC: 102 dB
Conference Mode
Directional Recording: Dimensional and Omni Directional
Recording Range: Up to 7 meters (approximately 23 feet)
Dedicated Audio Chipset: AKM 4961 + 4490
- 4961 - HiFi main chipset to provide HiFi and recording features
- 4490 - Independent amplifier to enhance HiFi playback (AK380)
It makes it sound like 4961 is dac and 4490 is the amp. At least for the conferencing, for playback it only mentions the dolby which is software. It also adds (AK380) to the line mentioning 4490!
Related
I was wondering if there is any way to tweak the audio quality of the Magic?
..it has cut-off bass frequencies, have a look at gsmarena.com review, I'm sure there's some way to tickle more performace out of it! Of course I've changed the headphones already
I too am interested in a volume increase or overall quality hack. was advised the g1 hack by meltus does not work on mytouch... Any info or suggestions to increase volume
I have the same question. Actually, it's stopping me from buying one and I will get Diamond2 instead, if no solution comes up soon...
Here is a link to the page of the review which criticizes the sound quality:
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_magic-review-377p7.php
Here is a link to frequency responce graph from that review:
http://pic.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/htc-magic/gsmarena_a001.png
Here is a quote of what they say about it:
It has cut-off bass frequencies, probably due to some kind of high-pass filter meant to improve sound on small size headphones.
I'm planning to use high-end headphones which don't need any bass cut-offs and I'm wondering if this is a software thing, or a hardware low-pass filter?
For comparison, here's a link to Diamond2's frequency response graph:
http://pic.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/htc-touch-diamond2/gsmarena_a001.png
As you can see, even though lower frequencies are lowered a bit, it's not drastic by any means and is perfectly equaliseable.
Here is a quote of what they say about Diamond2 audio quality:
With the introduction of the Diamond2 HTC are making a huge step forward in matching the music phones' audio quality.
Please help us on this! I'm really sold to Android's UI philosophy and I'm ready to sacrifice 800x480 screen, better browsing experience with flash, exhange, wmp, etc. for it, but not audio quality..it's a deal breaker for me.
From personal test I found that the Hero sounds better than the Magic or Diamond2, a wider sound somehow with more "umpf", but if you're picky with sound-quality like me there's still no smart-phone around with Windows Mobile or Android which comares to the excellent sound-quality of the iphone 3gs or others..it's sad but true..
I'm not sure about the Samsung Galaxy sound quality, somehow I don't like the sound..like the extreme highs are missing..there's no EQ in Android, sadly, because I think upping the highs would improve the Galaxy with (my head phones at least)
I'm just talking about high pass filter, which cuts off bass.
I don't know if the high-pass-filter is hardware or software..
but I know that if you really have high-end head phones for 250€ or something..you're never going to be happy with any of the smartphones around right now..except the iPhone, the sad truth, I'm sorry..
I'm just talking about bass-cutting low pass filter (either software or hardware), which just removes any basses.
Diamond2 quality is more than decent for me.
yea, nobody seems to know if this is possible..it can't be very hard to hack! I know that Samsung improved their Omnia sound quality through a firmware update..so I hoped it was possible on any of the HTC devices..I'd be happy to have some improvement on a Diamond1, or a HTC Magic..
An EQ widget or app would be a gold mine in the market
phatmanxxl said:
An EQ widget or app would be a gold mine in the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt that EQ is enough. You would have to turn up lows on EQ to the maximum just to get a straight frequency responce graph, which is still not possible, because 20hz is just infinitely too low. And extreme EQ settings ALWAYS cause distortion...
I think the sound quality of this phone is just adaquete for use on the go. I am currently feeding a head-direct re2 (bass light) through a fiio e5 and I am fairly happy with the sound quality. Of course it can never compare to my home headphone set up with delicated DAC and a tube amp, but when you use those on the road there will always be enough noise leaking in to cover the lower spectrum. I do find it to have enough mid bass to make none analytical listening to be pretty enjoyable.
Adequate. It can be a lot better on other devices - be good.
If someone can get true line out in this phone, which should bypass any of the nonsense, I bet people will rejoice. Optical out would be nice too.
I'd say streaming over bluetooth will give you the best quality out of these phones right now..not sure if this is true though
emugpp said:
I'd say streaming over bluetooth will give you the best quality out of these phones right now..not sure if this is true though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not.
I've tried this with my super old hermes, once i tweaked up the bluetooth and get rid of the skipping I had much better quality music through my Sony-Erricson Stereo-Bluetooth headset..
EQ and Audio Hack
Check these out.
http://forums.androidclubhouse.com/showthread.php?t=30
http://forums.androidclubhouse.com/showthread.php?t=82
These threads are basically for G1/Dream. I'm pretty sure it would work with Magic.
I'm very disappointed with my Magic audio, despite the audio quality, the Magic produces noise and interference. Using earphones like sennheiser cx-300 for example, at lower sounds and when the music stop, I can distinctly hear noise, and some sort of interference, like I hear when I plug the earphones to my old computer.
using my nokia device with same earphones and same mp3 the sound is perfect!
I'm using original HTC accessory (YC A300) to convert to 3.5mm and have original firmware version, android 1.5.
Anyone with same problem? I don't know if this is hardware problem or not.
Hello there, is there any diference between audio qualify from headphones out stock vs cm?
This is the big question for me since I own a pair of NuForce NE-700M and plan to upgrade to Yamaha EPH-100, and roughly 90% of my smartphone usage is just listening to music. GSMArena shows stock playing with enjoyably low THD (I know some of you aren't too fond of their review process, though).
Deadeye* said:
Hello there, is there any diference between audio qualify from headphones out stock vs cm?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock has workarounds for the cheap buds that come with the Oppo - but Dirac HD is unnecessary for decent headphones and in fact ruins the audio quality if used with good headphones. So if you use decent wired headphones you should not hear much difference if any. Some A2DP (stereo Bluetooth) devices have issues with 4.2 due to the new Bluetooth stack, however I can't reproduce this with any of my A2DP headsets.
I listen often music at home and sometimes I have to use my headphones (Fidelio)
Tested CM on Oppo which I preferred used on my HTC Sensation, but on the Oppo I am especially due to the sound quality back to Stock because in my opinion is the overall sound much better, especialy with MP3 320 kbps which I normally use. Only issue is that Stock in combination with the Faux Kernel causes sometimes a few problems.. However I have clearly to recommend the Stock for Music Lovers.. but try it - because ears and sound preferences are different
And by the way DiracHD is not only to improve cheap earphones, don't forget you have not the power of a High-End Amplifier in your pocket therfore is such a sound improvement a good way to have a much better sound on good headphones as well....
Nelson Hawker said:
I listen often music at home and sometimes I have to use my headphones (Fidelio)
Tested CM on Oppo which I preferred used on my HTC Sensation, but on the Oppo I am especially due to the sound quality back to Stock because in my opinion is the overall sound much better, especialy with MP3 320 kbps which I normally use. Only issue is that Stock in combination with the Faux Kernel causes sometimes a few problems.. However I have clearly to recommend the Stock for Music Lovers.. but try it - because ears and sound preferences are different
And by the way DiracHD is not only to improve cheap earphones, don't forget you have not the power of a High-End Amplifier in your pocket therfore is such a sound improvement a good way to have a much better sound on good headphones as well....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, DiracHD only works with cheap headphones - more specifically, *only with the cheap headphones included with the device* - it is an EQ preset that offsets the deficiencies of the OEM earbuds. Use it with anything that doesn't have the exact same frequency response and you correct for problems that aren't there - effectively creating new problems that didn't exist.
Effectively it's an audio form of RF predistortion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predistortion - Applying predistortion to anything with distortion characteristics different from what the predistortion algorithm was designed for results in increased distortion.
Well, then you agree that there is a differece between..and it depends on the headphones!
This was finally the question..
There was also somewhere a previous discussion ongoing that not each headphone works well with DIRAC due some reasons you stated before which is clear and nothing new..
But as I said, for me personally it sounds much better. Maybe are my 180 Euro headphones made of cheap quality, my ears need a doctor or I'am a promotion victim
Nelson Hawker said:
Well, then you agree that there is a differece between..and it depends on the headphones!
This was finally the question..
There was also somewhere a previous discussion ongoing that not each headphone works well with DIRAC due some reasons you stated before which is clear and nothing new..
But as I said, for me personally it sounds much better. Maybe are my 180 Euro headphones made of cheap quality, my ears need a doctor or I'am a promotion victim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got rid of my stock firmware before I had a chance to try the Dirac stuff, but it sounds like it's very similar to Beats Audio, where a lot of the lower spectrum and possibly some of the highs are boosted. This generally makes a more "fun" sound for the casual listener but a lot of more analytical listeners will feel like it ruins the sound, especially if they own earphones that already have their preferred sound signature.
So basically: If your earbuds share a similar signature to the Find 5 included buds, you'll appreciate Dirac HD's effects. Elsewise, if Dirac happens to shape your buds' signature into something you enjoy, then more power to it.
Meh. My NuForce NE-700Ms are already plenty V-shaped (my only complaint being that I have to run 4khz into the ground because it can be harsh. I still recommend them to you out there looking for a quality pair of IEMs at a decent price)
Only for information:
With the Stock Music App, which is not really bad you can switch between DIRAC, Dolby or turn every sound improvement off. But you must plug your headphone in otherwise you have in the speaker mode only a possibility to select Dolby or turn everything off..
So you can compare a little bit better how it works for you...
We seriously need a sound quality-related thread for this phone.
I'll start first.
I think this phone's audio is OK, best I've seen by far, but not as detailed as I'd like it. I seldom change phones, so I will compare it (very neutrally) with my previous phone: Note 3.
The Note supports 24-bit/192 kHz, while this phone's international model supports 24-bit/96 kHz.
This phone's Boomsound software is actually a pretty good feature and raises just the right frequencies to the right extent, without distorting the authentic experience. But it was so loud/wild that it started to blow even my studio monitor Audio-Technica M50, which was something purely related to not up-to-the-mark coding, blowing off relatively neutral headphones.
But I just updated to 4.4.3 firmware, and they have actually improved a lot on that software deficiency. The headphones do not feel blown even at full volume, which is a giant leap considering how "sensitive" audio equalizers like BoomSound are to reach perfection. Sure, they still haven't reached perfection; audio loses detail nearly last 2 steps of volume, but it's nice to see they are actually improving on that.
Of course, I can turn off Boomsound anytime and be as authentic as anything, but for me boomsound is just a priceless software I'm yet to find in any mobile yet.
Note 3 had Adapt Sound, which is a great equalizer to tweak sound to the best too. But I like how you don't have to take an audiometry-like test just to improve sound on your phone in M8. (Not bashing Note 3's audio at all, just my preference).
I think I read in the official features of Android L that external DAC will be natively supported (correct me if I'm wrong), so I'm really looking forward to the future of audio in this phone.
P.s. I would give an arm and leg to try out Harmon Kardon mod for this phone, but I can't because of no S-Off. I really can't wait to hear the difference between Boomsound and Harmon Kardon myself. Well, until the day I can get the mod!
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Pay the 25 dollars...
OP, I think this thread is a good idea :good:
I hope that we will get some good input and development info here
P.S. HK on 4.4.3 is awesome!
Link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc...-harman-kardon-conversion-htc-one-m8-t2827439
erapmicks said:
Pay the 25 dollars...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Willing to pay, even tried all I could to pay them in *any* way but my country has no PayPal, and even a live chat with the developers could not find a workaround for the issue
I'm just refreshing their page everyday to see if new payment methods become available.
09Ram said:
OP, I think this thread is a good idea :good:
I hope that we will get some good input and development info here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a really really really enthusiastic audiophile who is trying all his can to learn music and stuff, I wanted views of everyone, pro or not, on this phone's audio. Can't wait to see how the feedback/discussions help us!!!
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Good stuff, you sound like you know your stuff What is your opinion of the stock earbuds that come with the phone?
WarCow said:
Good stuff, you sound like you know your stuff What is your opinion of the stock earbuds that come with the phone?
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Just like HTC's previous ear buds which came with M7, they lean towards a more bass-y sound. The sound is hence easier on the ears, and the best point about these earplugs is that they are at least able to playback all (OK, not all, but a lot more than any I've seen come from any phone) frequencies. This is most noticeable as the lower frequencies, the bass, is actually *booming* at lower volumes with these earplugs. Which is relatively hard to attain in earphones.
But apart from bass being good (which targets a more encompassing audience which likes bass-y music), the sound maintains its balance. It's not obsessively bass-y, and not too peaked at higher frequencies too.
The new 4.4.3 update made the audio more "muddier/bass-y/low frequency-focused", than I'd like though. It is, in my opinion, a downgrade from previous version. But yes, an upgrade in the part that the crucial frequencies aren't "blown" like the previous one.
Let me give you my point of view. How *I* like my music. I like it as authentic as possible. I'm what you might call an audio purist/fundamentalist person.
One last point about the earphones. The earphones are a bit fatiguing. They fatigue my ear more than other earphones I've tried, despite the easier, softer audio focus.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Great thread! I do really enjoy good audio myself!
What I regret is that I converted my phone to Google Play Edition and that really changes how boomsound works. I am going back to Sense.
In my case, and I do not know why I am the only one that notices, but the soundstage goes on and off when listening to music and touching the home button. Stay away from GPE people.
In regards to the headphones I think they're pretty good too considering they're $6 earbuds. Lots of people say "Hey this earbuds suck" but what they do not know is that the plug size really MATTERS!!! If you don't choose the correct plug size any earbuds sound like crap.
I would really like to test the V-Moda Crossfade m-100 headphones on my phone, but I spent the money on a Samsung Gear Live I had the V-Moda Crossfade LP2s and sold them, they are great but bass-y (I don't have much time to use headphones), I use my car audio and my home theater system (MartinLogan speakers + Denon A/V receiver).
I converted my m8 to EU stock rom so I haven't tested it thoroughly yet. I did like the sound on .2 minus boomsound. BS was OK on some hip hop but overpowering on other genres. I've been working too much OT to test but has the mono USB audio out been fixed? I don't think many people noticed that that use external DAC s. Output through my JDS labs CD5 was mono but headphone out was still awesome. Has anybody noticed if it's been fixed?
Sent from HTC One_M8 using hofo app.
Sry in advance, too long post :<
Jamal Ahmed said:
This phone's Boomsound software is actually a pretty good feature and raises just the right frequencies to the right extent, without distorting the authentic experience. But it was so loud/wild that it started to blow even my studio monitor Audio-Technica M50, which was something purely related to not up-to-the-mark coding, blowing off relatively neutral headphones.
But I just updated to 4.4.3 firmware, and they have actually improved a lot on that software deficiency. The headphones do not feel blown even at full volume, which is a giant leap considering how "sensitive" audio equalizers like BoomSound are to reach perfection. Sure, they still haven't reached perfection; audio loses detail nearly last 2 steps of volume, but it's nice to see they are actually improving on that.
Of course, I can turn off Boomsound anytime and be as authentic as anything, but for me boomsound is just a priceless software I'm yet to find in any mobile yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you call this an Audiophile thread with these claims? (no offense tho).
Boomsound is the by far most horrible crap, you can use for headphones, if you truly want a high audio quality.
And i am not talking about, that you might "like" the different sounding, when the bass/treble is raised, and the mids are lowered.
I talk about the PURE quality of the sound. Its worse. It is. Noise and distortion are by worlds higher. With my Beyerdynamic T90 (yes, treble peak.. but still) and also with my pretty neutal Logitech UE 900 it was not listenable. The treble distorted in alot songs, it hurts in the ears etc.
I still DO think, if Boomsound would do the same, but NOT raise the treble, if would be by miles better as a "fun-setting". But like this, its not usable, tbh.
Also, if you want a sorce besides my ears: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8078/smartphone-audio-testing-htc-one-m8-and-samsung-galaxy-s5/2
Scroll down.
Comparing the THD+N ratio of BoomSound On to Off shows far more noise and distortion as well. If you want boomy bass, a harsh top-end, and no midrange, then use BoomSound. A better choice is to find headphones that suit your listening preferences more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jamal Ahmed said:
I think I read in the official features of Android L that external DAC will be natively supported (correct me if I'm wrong), so I'm really looking forward to the future of audio in this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I am not mistaken, this feature is supported by Android from version 4.3 onwards. So, witha Fiio E07k, E18~ you should be able to use it as a DAC. In the M8 audio quality thread on head-fi.org, one User uses the E18 with this, and can't disable Boomsound, while using an external DAC.
Jamal Ahmed said:
P.s. I would give an arm and leg to try out Harmon Kardon mod for this phone, but I can't because of no S-Off. I really can't wait to hear the difference between Boomsound and Harmon Kardon myself. Well, until the day I can get the mod!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if i do absolutely not share your opinion about Boomsound via Headphones, you might still be interested in my opinion in this comparison.
Boomsound:
Just a cheap EQ setting. Works well together with the external speakers, but is pretty crap for Headphones (maybe its fine with dull headphones, which dont have good treble/clarity. Maybe Shure SE 215, or some other basshead headphones).
I truly cant recommend it. And like i said, its NOT because the EQ setting changes the "true sound" (i like the Use of EQs to do some fine tuning if needed), but because using this raises the noise AND distortion by a good bunch. You can hear that strongly. At least i can.
PLUS, theres one big thing: This is just ONE strong agressive Preset of an EQ. Bass below 120 hz gets +5db, lower mids (120-1000 Hz) gets lowered by up to -5 dB, while the frequencies from 2000 up to 10k+ Hz) gets raised by 4,5db. Above 10k Hz its even above 5 dB).
This makes the difference Bass/treble, to the Mids from 0 dB to 10 dB, since +5 and -5 adds to 10. Thats a really hard difference.
So, in conclusion: Depending on headphones, this might sound better, or actually MUCH worse.
Bassy headphones, lets take your M50s, already have strong bass. Depending on frequency response, that bass could even "overlap" the mids, if the bass is too strong. you can see that on beats headphones. With Boomsound, the bass gets even more stronger, and the mids will get even more back in the background. Alot Headphones, that have a V-curve (and so naturally weaks in the mids) gets even weaker mids.
Also, depending on your headphones also as with the Audio files, the distortion gets raised by a little, or maybe by A LOT.
If you are not happy with your Headphone sounding, you should maybe try another Headphone.
If you just need some fine tuning, then you are by MILES better, if you just use PowerAmp, and its Equalizer, since it can react like a million times better to the individual frequency response of the headphones, and to your own personal taste. Boomsound here is more like "boom in your face. be happy with it, or cry"
Harman & Kardon Soundmod:
Now, this thing is alot different. This is actually Not an Equalizer, like Boomsound. H&K's "Clear-Fi" technology tries to take a strongly compressed Audiofile, and tries to recreate the missing parts.
So, it tries to raise the pure "compressed" audioquality of bad audiofiles.
I personally have mostly 256+ kbit/s MP3s, and Flacs. So, this technology wont help much. it sounds almost the exact same --> not really usefull. You just wont hear much of a difference, unless your Files have a bad quality. And if they do, then get better quality files, instead of such a software, that might not even work well enough.
But, this Soundmod disables Boomsound. Yes, you can find a "trick", where you change the Boomsound parameter from false to true in a script, and enabling it back in the menu. But, it will NOT be active. its like just menu decoration. The "boomsound" sign in the task bar will not be there - Not even with external speakers.
Boomsound is made ONLY for the External speakers, they work together quite well. Without Boomsound (ergo, with H&K soundmod flashed), the External speakers will sound much more thin/tinny. I have yet to find a way to have Boomsound for the speakers, and H&K Soundmod for headphones. Unless theres something new here, this is not possible together.
Lets go a bit deeper into the Audiophile theorycrafting:
H&K's "Clear-Fi", and its purpose might sound awesome. But it has its negative sights:
- It only helps on Crappy Audiophiles. Someone, who cares about audio quality will not use <128 kbit/s mp3s. At LEAST 192, but more 256-320 Kbit/s or even flac. So this will not help you, as the compression on 256+ is not strong enough, to make a difference (also, because most songs have a crappy quality from beeing badly mastered)
- The thoughts behind clear-fi are adressing the "problem" at the totally wrong spot. On most songs, it just does not matter, what file quality (bitrate etc) you use, because most songs are just really really crappy mastered in the studio. Its because alot people dont care about audio quality. so they use cheap crap, like beats headphones, logitech speakers for 30 bucks, and 10 bucks earphones etc. Crappy mastered/produced music sounds better on cheap devices, than a high quality master.
I mean, how are you supposed to "guess" the higher quality, if the artists arent producing high quality music?
I think, the following is a perfect comparison:
You create a 480p Movie, and try to upscale it into 1080p using a cheap software... Do you honestly think, that will raise the quality? I personally don't..
So, to make it pretty short: The worse your File quality is (and higher the file compression), the more "Clear-Fi" might make a difference.
The higher the file quality, the less difference this will make.
To get a high audio quality into your ears, you need a different priority:
1. The Song must be produced in a good/high quality. Much more important, than Bitrate. For example: Michael Jackson's Thriller album at 128 kbit/s will sound much better, than the new Linkin Park Album in 320 kbit+. (i like linkin park, but the new album has such an incredible low quality... its like zero fun listening to it, when you have really good headphones)
2. You need good headphones (Besides the master quality headphones are responsible for like 70-90% of the Audioquality. The REST comes from the DAC/AMP)
3. DAC / AMP Quality
The "Chain" is important. If just one part of it has a low quality, the whole chain will sound low.
good thread, I like quality audio too and use my M8 for music player, stream music at home etc
have a few high quality headphones like Sennheiser On Ear momentum, shure se215, hifiman re 400 and NAD HP50
with boomsound turned on, headphones sound awefull then I realised that it can be turned off with headpohone is connected, and with that off, sound quality is clean and crisp
I like neutral sound, true to source but maybe a bit high on treble....so far sound quality is good and is comparable to my previous note 3...note 3 was the best clean souding phone I hear so far though
any other suggestion to get a clean sound would be much helpfull
Long post (Darkseth), but ultimately just regurgitated from other audiophile nonsense. Boomsound is fine, and it's just elitist to claim it is anything else.
Most people like more bass in their music, most artists sound crap when played back without EQ. You can like it how it's meant to sound but artists want what THEY like, not what I like.
My favorite sound is poweramp music player with bass and treble cranked up, the mid tones almost removed as they sound rubbish with almost all music, and boomsound on top.
I am A1 qualified audiophile with qualifications from the school of knowing what I like
/bowing out and sorry if I derail anything.
The main reason for flashing the H/K mod is that it updates the adsp firmware to support 24bit 192kHz instead the 16bit 96kHz of the standard M8. Loaded up with hi-res flac files and through my Westone 4r's, the difference is night and day to me.
WESBAR said:
The main reason for flashing the H/K mod is that it updates the adsp firmware to support 24bit 192kHz instead the 16bit 96kHz of the standard M8. Loaded up with hi-res flac files and through my Westone 4r's, the difference is night and day to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you hear any difference bwn 192kHz and 96kHz ? tried myself but no difference in quality and head-fi also has many reviewers say no difference but file size just increase a lot
Hey everyone, I'll say I'm an audiophile just because I like good quality, not because I have any knowledge, so this being said what do you guys have to say about ProjectERA?
HtcOneJon said:
Long post (Darkseth), but ultimately just regurgitated from other audiophile nonsense. Boomsound is fine, and it's just elitist to claim it is anything else.
Most people like more bass in their music, most artists sound crap when played back without EQ. You can like it how it's meant to sound but artists want what THEY like, not what I like.
My favorite sound is poweramp music player with bass and treble cranked up, the mid tones almost removed as they sound rubbish with almost all music, and boomsound on top.
I am A1 qualified audiophile with qualifications from the school of knowing what I like
/bowing out and sorry if I derail anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sarcasm? If yes, then thx for that giggle mate
thecrab93 said:
Hey everyone, I'll say I'm an audiophile just because I like good quality, not because I have any knowledge, so this being said what do you guys have to say about ProjectERA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like a good thing. I also had it flashed for a short time... Cant really claim, i heared a difference. But when you reboot into recovery, flash and reboot, thats too much time passed, to be able to really compare it.
You would need 2 devices, one with, one without ProjectERA mod, to really be able to compare it i think.
soo.... difficult to say.
Darkseth said:
Sry in advance, too long post :<
How can you call this an Audiophile thread with these claims? (no offense tho).
Boomsound is the by far most horrible crap, you can use for headphones, if you truly want a high audio quality.
And i am not talking about, that you might "like" the different sounding, when the bass/treble is raised, and the mids are lowered.
I talk about the PURE quality of the sound. Its worse. It is. Noise and distortion are by worlds higher. With my Beyerdynamic T90 (yes, treble peak.. but still) and also with my pretty neutal Logitech UE 900 it was not listenable. The treble distorted in alot songs, it hurts in the ears etc.
I still DO think, if Boomsound would do the same, but NOT raise the treble, if would be by miles better as a "fun-setting". But like this, its not usable, tbh.
Also, if you want a sorce besides my ears: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8078/smartphone-audio-testing-htc-one-m8-and-samsung-galaxy-s5/2
Scroll down.
If I am not mistaken, this feature is supported by Android from version 4.3 onwards. So, witha Fiio E07k, E18~ you should be able to use it as a DAC. In the M8 audio quality thread on head-fi.org, one User uses the E18 with this, and can't disable Boomsound, while using an external DAC.
Even if i do absolutely not share your opinion about Boomsound via Headphones, you might still be interested in my opinion in this comparison.
Boomsound:
Just a cheap EQ setting. Works well together with the external speakers, but is pretty crap for Headphones (maybe its fine with dull headphones, which dont have good treble/clarity. Maybe Shure SE 215, or some other basshead headphones).
I truly cant recommend it. And like i said, its NOT because the EQ setting changes the "true sound" (i like the Use of EQs to do some fine tuning if needed), but because using this raises the noise AND distortion by a good bunch. You can hear that strongly. At least i can.
PLUS, theres one big thing: This is just ONE strong agressive Preset of an EQ. Bass below 120 hz gets +5db, lower mids (120-1000 Hz) gets lowered by up to -5 dB, while the frequencies from 2000 up to 10k+ Hz) gets raised by 4,5db. Above 10k Hz its even above 5 dB).
This makes the difference Bass/treble, to the Mids from 0 dB to 10 dB, since +5 and -5 adds to 10. Thats a really hard difference.
So, in conclusion: Depending on headphones, this might sound better, or actually MUCH worse.
Bassy headphones, lets take your M50s, already have strong bass. Depending on frequency response, that bass could even "overlap" the mids, if the bass is too strong. you can see that on beats headphones. With Boomsound, the bass gets even more stronger, and the mids will get even more back in the background. Alot Headphones, that have a V-curve (and so naturally weaks in the mids) gets even weaker mids.
Also, depending on your headphones also as with the Audio files, the distortion gets raised by a little, or maybe by A LOT.
If you are not happy with your Headphone sounding, you should maybe try another Headphone.
If you just need some fine tuning, then you are by MILES better, if you just use PowerAmp, and its Equalizer, since it can react like a million times better to the individual frequency response of the headphones, and to your own personal taste. Boomsound here is more like "boom in your face. be happy with it, or cry"
Harman & Kardon Soundmod:
Now, this thing is alot different. This is actually Not an Equalizer, like Boomsound. H&K's "Clear-Fi" technology tries to take a strongly compressed Audiofile, and tries to recreate the missing parts.
So, it tries to raise the pure "compressed" audioquality of bad audiofiles.
I personally have mostly 256+ kbit/s MP3s, and Flacs. So, this technology wont help much. it sounds almost the exact same --> not really usefull. You just wont hear much of a difference, unless your Files have a bad quality. And if they do, then get better quality files, instead of such a software, that might not even work well enough.
But, this Soundmod disables Boomsound. Yes, you can find a "trick", where you change the Boomsound parameter from false to true in a script, and enabling it back in the menu. But, it will NOT be active. its like just menu decoration. The "boomsound" sign in the task bar will not be there - Not even with external speakers.
Boomsound is made ONLY for the External speakers, they work together quite well. Without Boomsound (ergo, with H&K soundmod flashed), the External speakers will sound much more thin/tinny. I have yet to find a way to have Boomsound for the speakers, and H&K Soundmod for headphones. Unless theres something new here, this is not possible together.
Lets go a bit deeper into the Audiophile theorycrafting:
H&K's "Clear-Fi", and its purpose might sound awesome. But it has its negative sights:
- It only helps on Crappy Audiophiles. Someone, who cares about audio quality will not use <128 kbit/s mp3s. At LEAST 192, but more 256-320 Kbit/s or even flac. So this will not help you, as the compression on 256+ is not strong enough, to make a difference (also, because most songs have a crappy quality from beeing badly mastered)
- The thoughts behind clear-fi are adressing the "problem" at the totally wrong spot. On most songs, it just does not matter, what file quality (bitrate etc) you use, because most songs are just really really crappy mastered in the studio. Its because alot people dont care about audio quality. so they use cheap crap, like beats headphones, logitech speakers for 30 bucks, and 10 bucks earphones etc. Crappy mastered/produced music sounds better on cheap devices, than a high quality master.
I mean, how are you supposed to "guess" the higher quality, if the artists arent producing high quality music?
I think, the following is a perfect comparison:
You create a 480p Movie, and try to upscale it into 1080p using a cheap software... Do you honestly think, that will raise the quality? I personally don't..
So, to make it pretty short: The worse your File quality is (and higher the file compression), the more "Clear-Fi" might make a difference.
The higher the file quality, the less difference this will make.
To get a high audio quality into your ears, you need a different priority:
1. The Song must be produced in a good/high quality. Much more important, than Bitrate. For example: Michael Jackson's Thriller album at 128 kbit/s will sound much better, than the new Linkin Park Album in 320 kbit+. (i like linkin park, but the new album has such an incredible low quality... its like zero fun listening to it, when you have really good headphones)
2. You need good headphones (Besides the master quality headphones are responsible for like 70-90% of the Audioquality. The REST comes from the DAC/AMP)
3. DAC / AMP Quality
The "Chain" is important. If just one part of it has a low quality, the whole chain will sound low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with you
best: H / K for MP3 and Boumsound for speakers
the speakers do have a bad sound without boumsound
Viper4Android is very good to improve the quality but I did not try on the M8
saj2001ind said:
do you hear any difference bwn 192kHz and 96kHz ? tried myself but no difference in quality and head-fi also has many reviewers say no difference but file size just increase a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can hear the difference. 192kHz has a little more sparkle to me, especially the highs. Probably an exagerration to say night and day but I can hear it.
I like 24 bit 192 kHz more because it is easier to use hi-end equipment on it, and still be as authentic as possible. Logically, low resolution would sound worse to worst as the quality of your equipment goes higher. Hi-res has one advantage, if any, that it assures you that if you have invested more in your equipment, it won't go to waste all the time you are listening to audio on mobile.
and AFAIK 24 bit 192 kHz is the max supported resolution by headphones of even a pretty high caliber.
Hey OP. What else did you notice out of the 4.4.3 updpate that is so diff from 4.4.2? Sorry for changing topic lol
I can't stand BoomSound as it makes the music sound horrible and unrealistic (it works for the external speakers though). It does very weird things with the sound with headphones. I did not like the Harman Kardon mod either. It just pumped up the highs and has too low bass. Ironically it too sounded very bad in my Harman Kardon CL headphones. Though better than BoomSound.
I rather go flat than use any of those mods and any "audiphile" would agree. It might be good for cheaper heaphones though.
However Viper4Android is another story. With it you can customise the sound without destroying it and give it a richer character. I am extremely happy with it.
It is driving me crazy that we can get this thing to output at 24bit/192k Hz or even just 24bit/96k (I would be perfectly fine with 96k as I can honestly barely tell the difference between 96 and 192).
I was listening to some 24bit vinyl stuff on my phone and I could help but wondered why it sounded "dull" for lack of a better term. Back into PC and all of a sudden all of the high end clarity is back (relieved to know I am not going deaf).
But this leads be to the question, our phones must be downsampling to 48K. Even Neutron says it can only sample 48hz so what the deal? I know the DAC in this phone is supposed to support something absurd like 32bit/356k Hz but it seems like it is only outputting 48K.
Is it just me, or are my ears lying to me lol???
You are correct. The phone downsamples and converts everything to 48khz pcm. Nobody who buys this phone seems to care about it and LG is not in any hurry to correct it.
mlknez said:
You are correct. The phone downsamples and converts everything to 48khz pcm. Nobody who buys this phone seems to care about it and LG is not in any hurry to correct it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rather suspect that the large majority of V20 owners don't have any true hi-res music files
.
douger1957 said:
I rather suspect that the large majority of V20 owners don't have any true hi-res music files
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's true hi res at DSD (DIFF), WAV 24/96 at least, or flac 24/96 or the very least flac 24/48, and with a good quality headset, IEM or CANS, you should hear the differences, forget the B&O one's, they don't make much differences, then you know the quality. Never compare the V20 with any standalone DAP, maybe low quality one's.
kms108 said:
If it's true hi res at DSD (DIFF), WAV 24/96 at least, or flac 24/96 or the very least flac 24/48, and with a good quality headset, IEM or CANS, you should hear the differences, forget the B&O one's, they don't make much differences, then you know the quality. Never compare the V20 with any standalone DAP, maybe low quality one's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use a pair of AKG k240s when I am out and about. I use my Q701s often, but I was really eager to try the k501s with the v20, and I am really sad this phone isn't utilizing the DAC properly.
(I'm an AKG guy btw haha)
shadowxaero said:
I use a pair of AKG k240s when I am out and about. I use my Q701s often, but I was really eager to try the k501s with the v20, and I am really sad this phone isn't utilizing the DAC properly.
(I'm an AKG guy btw haha)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My V20 seems to be using it, with the hifi dac toggled on and off , I can clearly hear the differences, when compared to my G5 hifi DAC, it sound slightly better, but only a marginal better, I think it all comes down to the quality of the components use, either way my sony ZX 2 sound way better, but my xperia X performance does not compare to the LG.
Ilike sony, you can see my IEM collection below in the sig, going to pickup a pair of MDR EX1000.
kms108 said:
My V20 seems to be using it, with the hifi dac toggled on and off , I can clearly hear the differences, when compared to my G5 hifi DAC, it sound slightly better, but only a marginal better, I think it all comes down to the quality of the components use, either way my sony ZX 2 sound way better, but my xperia X performance does not compare to the LG.
Ilike sony, you can see my IEM collection below in the sig, going to pickup a pair of MDR EX1000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me it just sounds like when I toggle the hi-fi mode it is just pushing more voltage. Just a glorified "gain" control lol. It gets louder but no clearer and still sounds a bit hollow. when I compare to my sound blaster z direct stereo mode the v20 is crap. And it's saddening because we all know it has the hardware to be so much more. Some one get an LG rep in these forums lol.
shadowxaero said:
To me it just sounds like when I toggle the hi-fi mode it is just pushing more voltage. Just a glorified "gain" control lol. It gets louder but no clearer and still sounds a bit hollow. when I compare to my sound blaster z direct stereo mode the v20 is crap. And it's saddening because we all know it has the hardware to be so much more. Some one get an LG rep in these forums lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it sound more that louder, it has a slight differences in tone.
shadowxaero said:
To me it just sounds like when I toggle the hi-fi mode it is just pushing more voltage. Just a glorified "gain" control lol. It gets louder but no clearer and still sounds a bit hollow. when I compare to my sound blaster z direct stereo mode the v20 is crap. And it's saddening because we all know it has the hardware to be so much more. Some one get an LG rep in these forums lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to admit that this is true when compare between my Xonar and the phone. I am very disappointed and the only reason I keep it cuz v10 is so slow now. Better Audio for audiophile?? my ass, just louder, all sounded like mp3, so why must we use flac. Not to mention the camera is super dull for late 2016.
mlknez said:
You are correct. The phone downsamples and converts everything to 48khz pcm. Nobody who buys this phone seems to care about it and LG is not in any hurry to correct it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see you love to spread misinformation.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
shadowxaero said:
It is driving me crazy that we can get this thing to output at 24bit/192k Hz or even just 24bit/96k (I would be perfectly fine with 96k as I can honestly barely tell the difference between 96 and 192).
I was listening to some 24bit vinyl stuff on my phone and I could help but wondered why it sounded "dull" for lack of a better term. Back into PC and all of a sudden all of the high end clarity is back (relieved to know I am not going deaf).
But this leads be to the question, our phones must be downsampling to 48K. Even Neutron says it can only sample 48hz so what the deal? I know the DAC in this phone is supposed to support something absurd like 32bit/356k Hz but it seems like it is only outputting 48K.
Is it just me, or are my ears lying to me lol???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go into LG world, HiFi and grab true high res music and play it in stock LG music app. You will see how well it works.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
Any player will play those files... however, every player is decimating the files down to 48khz prior to sending them to the DAC because the phone is reporting that 48khz pcm is the only available ability of the DAC.
---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 PM ----------
BROKEN1981 said:
I see you love to spread misinformation.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your player is playing the files, but before it sends the info to the DAC, it is decimating them to the best reported rate, which is 48khz pcm.
BROKEN1981 said:
Go into LG world, HiFi and grab true high res music and play it in stock LG music app. You will see how well it works.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what your on about, I have 24bit/192k files already, why do I need LGs? I also have tracks I have recorded at 24bit/96k and personally mixed and mastered my self. I know how down sample audio sounds.
The problem isn't the files its the fact that the DAC isn't outputting anything higher than 48k. I'm not sure if you have any other DACs you can test with but that fact that there is a major difference between my sound blaster z and the v20 is proof enough that the DAC isn't functioning as it should.
Hearing is not a one sound fits all.
The DAC Hi-Fi on the V20 does an excellent job compaired to many other phones out there.
At least with my V20 I can hear the over all better quality of playback when turning on Hi-Fi. The music is much more rich. And tones that I have never heard in music before can now be heard.
shwnr11 said:
Hearing is not a one sound fits all.
The DAC Hi-Fi on the V20 does an excellent job compaired to many other phones out there.
At least with my V20 I can hear the over all better quality of playback when turning on Hi-Fi. The music is much more rich. And tones that I have never heard in music before can now be heard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That doesn't change the fact that many of us bought this device for specific reason. Once of the biggest reason for me personally was because the ES9218 has some really impressive specifications. If supports DSD and yet converts to PCM. I have a problem with that, it isn't functioning as it should. It supports 32 bit stereo at an outrageous 384Khz and yet decimates everything to to 48Khz. So that means for those of us who have invested in good pair of cans, we are upset.
I am glad you think is sounds good and I don't want to take away from your experience but it does not change the fact that 24bit 96/192khz files sound like crap coming out of this phone compared to a DAC outputting the signal correctly.
shadowxaero said:
I am glad you think is sounds good and I don't want to take away from your experience but it does not change the fact that 24bit 96/192khz files sound like crap coming out of this phone compared to a DAC outputting the signal correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you using to play your files.
You mentioned neuron, but what about the stock player?
Its very possible that its not the phone that's the issue. But the software / player your using could be the problem instead.
Just received my male to female adapter today and all i got to say is Wawwww. I am hooked...
shwnr11 said:
What are you using to play your files.
You mentioned neuron, but what about the stock player?
Its very possible that its not the phone that's the issue. But the software / player your using could be the problem instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have used the stock player, poweramp, neurtron, JetAudio lol all of them down-sample the audio. The phone is definitely the issue. If you have another DAC that outputs at 192kHz you would be able to tell very easily that the v20 is down sampling to 48kHz
shadowxaero said:
I have used the stock player, poweramp, neurtron, JetAudio lol all of them down-sample the audio. The phone is definitely the issue. If you have another DAC that outputs at 192kHz you would be able to tell very easily that the v20 is down sampling to 48kHz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your software could be down sampling. Not the hardware.
shadowxaero said:
That doesn't change the fact that many of us bought this device for specific reason. Once of the biggest reason for me personally was because the ES9218 has some really impressive specifications. If supports DSD and yet converts to PCM. I have a problem with that, it isn't functioning as it should. It supports 32 bit stereo at an outrageous 384Khz and yet decimates everything to to 48Khz. So that means for those of us who have invested in good pair of cans, we are upset.
I am glad you think is sounds good and I don't want to take away from your experience but it does not change the fact that 24bit 96/192khz files sound like crap coming out of this phone compared to a DAC outputting the signal correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@shadowxaero -
@beavis5706 mentioned in his testing of the V10 that:
"I have done some more tests given the information provided here and I have come up with some answers. An interruption when switching the DAC on/off signifies a player that can output true hi-res. I did some test recordings on Audacity through the input on my laptop with a music file that has known frequency response up to 88,200Hz. The players that can output true hi-res (the ones that interrupt with DAC on/off) play those frequencies all the way up with no cutoff. The players that cannot (no interruption with DAC on/off) are using Android's internal resampler and are getting resampled to 48kHz (24,000Hz frequency response).
The players I have found that can output true hi-res are ZPlayer, PlayerPro, Shuttle+ (thank you stupc), LG stock music player, Google Play Music and ES File Explorer media player.
Having said that my ears tell me that all players work with the DAC. However only the ones I have listed above can output true hi-res. The rest, while they do still sound good and do benefit from the DAC, are not outputting true hi-res and are instead being resampled to 48kHz." (from post #7 of http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-v10/general/music-apps-using-dac-t3252596)
My understanding is that this is likely true for the V20 as well, as really only the OS and the hardware changed and it's extremely likely that LG did as little changes as possible considering their rocky start with the LG V10, which has the exact same re-sampling issue.
So that's 6 music player apps that actually bypass the down-sampling on the V10 and probably the V20, but the only way we can know for sure on the V20 is if someone with a similar test bench to @beavis5706 can replicate his work on the V10 testing music player apps on the V20.
So who has a good sound card, test tones over 24 KHz in a hires file, and Audacity or the like?
on samsung's website they say this, does it mean that it had a better DAC?
abdelha said:
on samsung's website they say this, does it mean that it had a better DAC?
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I don't know much about audio, that jargon does make it sound good though. Hopefully it translates to high quality sounding music.
It can be high quality processed but the sound may still be not so great. The s7 edge I had had horrible headphone output. At this point, I may consider Bluetooth headsets to overcome Samsung crappy dac
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I'm wondering if it's a reference to this technology: http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...quality-tech-will-upscale-any-audio-to-32-bit
Wenbinbin2010 said:
I'm wondering if it's a reference to this technology: http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...quality-tech-will-upscale-any-audio-to-32-bit
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Matches up completely with the Samsung info so looks like it. Hopefully it'll sound good enough. At least they are including better earphones this time. Won't replace the ones I already have but it's nice all the same.
abdelha said:
on samsung's website they say this, does it mean that it had a better DAC?
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DAC is sound hardware which enhance the clarify and quality of audio, Mention by Samsung website is playable format and bit rate which has nothing to do with high quality audio or DAC
Find more info on DAC here : http://www.ubergizmo.com/what-is/dac/
onlinejobwork said:
DAC is sound hardware which enhance the clarify and quality of audio, Mention by Samsung website is playable format and bit rate which has nothing to do with high quality audio or DAC
Find more info on DAC here : http://www.ubergizmo.com/what-is/dac/
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but higher bit rate means better quality...
abdelha said:
but higher bit rate means better quality...
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If bit rate is higher but audio chip is poor or not DAC than audio output is poor or not so great even if it high sampling rate , but is sound coming through DAC than Audio quality is much better than higher bit rate with normal or non DAC audio chip, Source need to be superior quality than medium itself
I'm not sure what you mean by "non DAC audio chip"? A DAC is a Digital to Analogue Converter (inverse of an ADC), so to convert digital music to sound there needs to be a DAC in the circuit somewhere. Absolutely true that there are different qualities of decoder, converter and amplifier, and you should not mistake specs for quality (a common error in other components, and actively encouraged by marketing), but all 3 elements will be present in any audio output circuit, whether the manufacturer draws attention to them or not.
Large Hadron said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "non DAC audio chip"? A DAC is a Digital to Analogue Converter (inverse of an ADC), so to convert digital music to sound there needs to be a DAC in the circuit somewhere. Absolutely true that there are different qualities of decoder, converter and amplifier, and you should not mistake specs for quality (a common error in other components, and actively encouraged by marketing), but all 3 elements will be present in any audio output circuit, whether the manufacturer draws attention to them or not.
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btw if you are not sure as you asked, let me clarify when I said "non DAC audio chip" I was actually tried to say " normal DAC" instead of Upgraded Quad DAC which is the first in the world and introduced with LG V20 and now in LG G6, in the case of S8 this is Normal (not non) DAC Audio chip, more info translated below:
'LG G6', Upgraded Quad DAC to get a music enthusiast
LG Electronics will upgrade its next-generation premium smartphone 'LG G6' with a quad DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter). The new Quad DAC is supplied by ESS, a company specializing in high-performance audio chipsets.
The new quad DAC features fine control of left and right sound, enhancing sound balance and reducing noise.
,the more the sound distortion and noise are reduced more effectively, resulting in a clean sound quality. The quad DACs implement four DACs on a single chip, reducing the size by a factor of four and noise by up to 50% when using one DAC.
The new quad DAC applied to the 'LG G6' effectively controls the left and right earphones separately to control the left and right earphones separately. Also, by adjusting the balance of sound, listeners can feel the stereoscopic feeling of listening to music directly at the concert scene, Get rid of noise and deliver vivid impression
The LG G6 eliminates noise from loud as well as loud sounds, providing crisp, clean sound.
The new Quad DACs have increased circuit integration, lowering the negative distortion to 0.0002% of the luxury audio level and minimizing the loss of acoustic information. As the loss of information is less, the listener can hear a clean sound close to the original sound.
The path for transmitting sound signals inside the chip has also been widened. The ability to process large, high-quality sound sources quickly and accurately allows listeners to enjoy high-volume 32-bit hi-fi sources without interruption.
Ah, the curse of auto-correct I guess
Trouble is that you don't get the high quality DAC chip with the G6 unless you live in Korea, or at least Asia. If LG offered the 64GB + quad DAC version in Europe I'd probably have bought one, but we only get the most basic model.
Read somewhere that the audio is much better than the s7 headphones wise (which is great because I HATED the audio quality from the s7). It's said to be louder and sound better. Best thing to do is to head to best buy with good headphones and check it out
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And here I am just sad that they only include those uncomfortable in-ear headphones, I would have preferred non-sealing earbuds. Those AKGs won't come out of that box
The sound quality is simply incredible. I tested DSD files it's just mind-blowing
godzi1971 said:
The sound quality is simply incredible. I tested DSD files it's just mind-blowing
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Where did you test it? And where did you find dsd files? Lol
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I use the device right now, and I bought 3 albums on the internet
godzi1971 said:
I use the device right now, and I bought 3 albums on the internet
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Exynos or snapdragon?
GermanGuy said:
Exynos or snapdragon?
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Exynos 8895
how does it go against the htc 10 or the g6...
any comment on sound quality now that some people have theirs?