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Considering the big.LITTLE processors that'll be coming out in the future and the way they work, i.e. using ARM a7 for processes that require little processing power and switching to a15 cores for high processing power requirements.
Is it possible, to create a kernel that emulates this with current quad core processors? With the most basic implementation being 2 cores underclocked to something around 800mhz and the other 2 either overclocked or kept the same. Would a cpu governor need to be modified to properly control the clocks and activations of the cores?
So I've been noticing somethin strange other then the experia z every single other high end device that will come out as of 2013 will be using a 1.7GHZ snapdragon the only high end device that will use a lower one is experia z why????? I mean the phone hasn't come out yet can't they just put the 1.7GHZ instead? why use a lower one 1.5GHZ from phones of the fourth quarter of 2012 its old tech!!!
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Calm down man, 1.5GHz quadcore is good for Android. Android really doesn't need such a high speeds
And CPU clock doesn't mean smoother device
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1.5Ghz Quad Core is not "only". And they all use exactly the same CPU which operates with 1,5-1,7Ghz speed. Clock speed isn't everything. Look at the iPhone - it uses dual core 1.2Ghz CPU - yet its performance is 5 times smoother than most quad core devices...
Dual core is more than enough for anything a smartphone might need to do - as long as you put good software on it.
gabrielpina4 said:
So I've been noticing somethin strange other then the experia z every single other high end device that will come out as of 2013 will be using a 1.7GHZ snapdragon the only high end device that will use a lower one is experia z why????? I mean the phone hasn't come out yet can't they just put the 1.7GHZ instead? why use a lower one 1.5GHZ from phones of the fourth quarter of 2012 its old tech!!!
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
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Seriously? "Only" on a quad core 1.5ghz CPU for a smartphone? What are you gonna run on your phone that would require you more? Or do you just want your battery to drain more for no possible reasons? Some users even just underclock for the sake of saving battery.
If you ask me I buy this because of the features and the RAM not because of processor clock.
If you ever let me choose I would rather go for a 1ghz dual core processor with 4GB RAM than having a 2ghz quad core processor with 2GB RAM.
The only reason why I would want the Qualcomm S4 Pro processor is because of adreno 320.
A dual core is good enough dude .. this is a quad core lol
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
No offense but you just sound like your trolling. Same goes for your other thread too
AK4TAY7BEN said:
No offense but you just sound like your trolling. Same goes for your other thread too
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I agree. I think he's trolling.
Riyal said:
Seriously? "Only" on a quad core 1.5ghz CPU for a smartphone? What are you gonna run on your phone that would require you more? Or do you just want your battery to drain more for no possible reasons? Some users even just underclock for the sake of saving battery.
If you ask me I buy this because of the features and the RAM not because of processor clock.
If you ever let me choose I would rather go for a 1ghz dual core processor with 4GB RAM than having a 2ghz quad core processor with 2GB RAM.
The only reason why I would want the Qualcomm S4 Pro processor is because of adreno 320.
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What would be the purpose of 4GB of RAM in a smartphone are you running Photoshop or a VM? Where did this stigma that more cores is equivalent to less efficient power use. More asynchronous cores allow for more accurate scaling of processing power to needs, thus higher power efficiency because the CPU spends less time in higher power states.
REAVER117 said:
What would be the purpose of 4GB of RAM in a smartphone are you running Photoshop or a VM? Where did this stigma that mire cores is equivalent to less efficient power use. More asynchronous cores allow for more accurate scaling of processing power to needs, thus higher power efficiency because the CPU spends less time in higher power states.
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Buddy android runs Dalvik VM and our GPU uses dedicated RAM for processing certain graphic tasks. So yes we are running a VM on our mobile phones.
Also with a proper monitoring app you could see for yourself which uses more and needs more resource here. whether processing or memory.
Didn't you even wonder why our phones consume almost 700mb RAM without even a single foreground application open? Yet it sits idle in a single core and remains in between 400mhz+ to 900mhz?
Also I didn't say that more cores consumes more power in my statement but still since each core requires power to run it should also consume more. Also I didn't mention anything about number of core I was talking about the clocks. Since the higher the clock requires more Amperes. Still underclocking your phone by 500mhz would prolly just save about 2% of your battery anyways.
you don't need higher cpu clock to get a pocket heater for this winter
My Optimus G has the same cpu an the thermal throttling is kikin in pretty fast. This 1.7Ghz S4pro will thermal throttle as fast or even faster, rendering numerical advantage meaningless.
I don't want to feed the troll but I also think dual core is good enough.
Riyal said:
Buddy android runs Dalvik VM and our GPU uses dedicated RAM for processing certain graphic tasks. So yes we are running a VM on our mobile phones.
Also with a proper monitoring app you could see for yourself which uses more and needs more resource here. whether processing or memory.
Didn't you even wonder why our phones consume almost 700mb RAM without even a single foreground application open? Yet it sits idle in a single core and remains in between 400mhz+ to 900mhz?
Also I didn't say that more cores consumes more power in my statement but still since each core requires power to run it should also consume more. Also I didn't mention anything about number of core I was talking about the clocks. Since the higher the clock requires more Amperes. Still underclocking your phone by 500mhz would prolly just save about 2% of your battery anyways.
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I have yet to see my Xperia ZL have less than 800MB of free an extra 2GB would be a total waste. And you simply stated you'd rather have a dual than a quad, peak frequency means very little except for potential processing power. Just because your CPU is capable of a higher clock speed doesn't mean it will idle any higher. Likewise the only difference between a quad with a single utilized core and a dual with a single utilized core is the minute amount if extra leakage current for the quad.
I think you meant to say that higher frequencies may need more voltage, amperage has very little to do with CPU frequency scaling.
And obviously the memory overhead for a virtualized process i.e. Dalvik VM is not even in the same league as a system VM.
REAVER117 said:
I have yet to see my Xperia ZL have less than 800MB of free an extra 2GB would be a total waste. And you simply stated you'd rather have a dual than a quad, peak frequency means very little except for potential processing power. Just because your CPU is capable of a higher clock speed doesn't mean it will idle any higher. Likewise the only difference between a quad with a single utilized core and a dual with a single utilized core is the minute amount if extra leakage current for the quad.
I think you meant to say that higher frequencies may need more voltage, amperage has very little to do with CPU frequency scaling.
And obviously the memory overhead for a virtualized process i.e. Dalvik VM is not even in the same league as a system VM.
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Buddy that 800mb is without running any foreground applications other than either Settings app or the homescreen. Like I said try running some monitoring apps on the background and try using the browser then maybe try loading some sites with lots of javascript codes in it.
Or if you like try launching 4 types of angry birds and the 2 temple run games simultaneously without killing one of them and let's see if OOM doesn't kick in and kill any of them.
Regarding CPU cores please state something that requires a quad core processor. The smoothness of the UI your experiencing is because of the type of processor your phone is using "The Snapdragon S4 Pro" even if you disable all the extra cores in it you won't feel anything different unless of course you'll run some benchmark tools or video decoding stuffs in there.
And just FYI more cores doesn't mean greater processing power. It's more cores = more processes it can handle.
And on the CPU freq clocks who said t that amperes doesn't increase on each frequency table? Please take a look at qualcomm's document on their site regarding it's processors so you would know how they calculate it. Voltage is just used to provide more electricity to power up the processor but voltage alone won't make a processor active.
This discussion is going to the wrong way.
Thread closed.
As you all know, S4 I9500 comes with a pair of 4 cores that can't run at the same time (as of now). When not on heavy duty, the four A7 1.2GHz cores are used, and that can sometimes be too slow for me. So I am using SetCPU to lock the frequency to 1.6GHz, but SetCPU hasn't been updated/optimized for the S4, as it only identifies the four A15 1.6GHz cores. Therefore I do not know what exactly it is doing, is it overriding Samsung's way of switching between CPU sets, or is it working at all? Any suggestions on tweaking the I9500 CPU? Please tell me if you know any CPU apps compatible with it.
iHackMyMI said:
As you all know, S4 I9500 comes with a pair of 4 cores that can't run at the same time (as of now). When not on heavy duty, the four A7 1.2GHz cores are used, and that can sometimes be too slow for me. So I am using SetCPU to lock the frequency to 1.6GHz, but SetCPU hasn't been updated/optimized for the S4, as it only identifies the four A15 1.6GHz cores. Therefore I do not know what exactly it is doing, is it overriding Samsung's way of switching between CPU sets, or is it working at all? Any suggestions on tweaking the I9500 CPU? Please tell me if you know any CPU apps compatible with it.
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Locking the A15 chips on all the time would be a mistake. They use more power than the A7 cores, so battery would take a punch! I feel they handel the switch over pretty well, although CPUspy tells me that i've only used 1.6ghz for a few seconds over the course of a day. Although i've not run games or anything intensive.
hamdogg said:
Locking the A15 chips on all the time would be a mistake. They use more power than the A7 cores, so battery would take a punch! I feel they handel the switch over pretty well, although CPUspy tells me that i've only used 1.6ghz for a few seconds over the course of a day. Although i've not run games or anything intensive.
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Thank you for your reply. My point is that we are relatively oblivious about what's going on with the cores since no software is specifically compatible with monitoring/configuring the chipset. The thing is, a lot of apps run very laggy and have low frame rates on S4, force GPU rendering fixes most of the problem, but the crackyness of flipping through eBook reader apps are unbearable. I hope in the future there will be apps/roms that can take control of this CPU with great potential.
iHackMyMI said:
Thank you for your reply. My point is that we are relatively oblivious about what's going on with the cores since no software is specifically compatible with monitoring/configuring the chipset. The thing is, a lot of apps run very laggy and have low frame rates on S4, force GPU rendering fixes most of the problem, but the crackyness of flipping through eBook reader apps are unbearable. I hope in the future there will be apps/roms that can take control of this CPU with great potential.
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There are no compatibility issues, all CPU related apps work perfectly.
I've made topics explaining this over a month ago before the phone was even released. Everything beyond 600MHz are the big cores, everything at and below are the little ones. The little ones are mapped at a virtual frequency at half of the real clock, so 600 means 1200.
There's nothing more to it than that.
AndreiLux said:
There are no compatibility issues, all CPU related apps work perfectly.
I've made topics explaining this over a month ago before the phone was even released. Everything beyond 600MHz are the big cores, everything at and below are the little ones. The little ones are mapped at a virtual frequency at half of the real clock, so 600 means 1200.
There's nothing more to it than that.
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OMG thank you! That was very helpful
iHackMyMI said:
OMG thank you! That was very helpful
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like andreilux said what you have to do is set the minimum frequency above 600(if you still need it ) so that a15 cores will be on all the time. If in case you switch on the a15 cores all the time do let us know about the avg battery drain.
hi
i am new but i cant find a way for see the firtst 1,5 ghz cores work....all cpu app i can find see me only work the last 4 core with 1,2 ghz...
please help me unlock the firt 4 core are everytime stopped thnx for help
Those kick in only when you are doing something "hard" in that time. Like benchmarking in background.
SoNic67 said:
Those kick in only when you are doing something "hard" in that time. Like benchmarking in background.
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i try run all test and i dont see one time the big core work, they are stopped every time...( try pc mark but dont work he crash after 4k encoding video) with kernel auiditior i can active all 8 core...now they work everytime and i can set governor for each processor...
but other app like cpuz dont find the first processor they see only the last 4 core... ok maybe with bench i can see all cores work but is very hard find a way for check the correct work for governor and the phone processor work fine....
if u dont have root cpu app dont find any governor...or see only one processor...
Those are limitations of the apps themselves or your OS.
I have the official N (rooted with ElementalX) and CPU-Z sees all the cores.
Also there are never supposed to work all 8 in the same time, only a group/cluster of 4 at one time, it is not a straight-up 8 core CPU. They are not "equal" in respect of performance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_big.LITTLE
Different combinations of Governors and Schedulers produce different results.
PS: The newer Snapdragon 625, that is present in G5 Plus, is listed as a true 8 core: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/processors/625
The 617 is a big.LITTLE octa-core, not a true 8-core CPU such as the 625, like @SoNic67 said. The 617 has one cluster running up to 1.5-1.6 GHz (depending on the kernel), and one cluster that generally runs from 500 MHz-1200 MHz.
The little cluster, or the 500-1200 MHz cluster, is fine for basic tasks, such as UI, scrolling, etc. However, in games, all cores will online (or at least that's the point). Some apps are not threaded for 8 cores and thus will not utilize, or need, 8 cores.
Also, in reality, the 4 "big" cores make very little difference in terms of performance. I did 2 benches in another thread, where Antutu came up 40K with 4 cores and 45k with 8 cores. Although this seems like a large performance decrease, without the big cores the phone was cool, still ran quick, and drained far less battery.
Finally, having 8 cores also can introduce performance deficits as well, especially if your hotplug is inefficient (there may be delays in turning on cores, resulting in UI jank). I thus recommend simply leaving them off- better battery, cooling, and still decent performance.
thx for support and continue OS is amazing gw.
negusp said:
The 617 is a big.LITTLE octa-core, not a true 8-core CPU such as the 625, like @SoNic67 said. The 617 has one cluster running up to 1.5-1.6 GHz (depending on the kernel), and one cluster that generally runs from 500 MHz-1200 MHz.
The little cluster, or the 500-1200 MHz cluster, is fine for basic tasks, such as UI, scrolling, etc. However, in games, all cores will online (or at least that's the point). Some apps are not threaded for 8 cores and thus will not utilize, or need, 8 cores.
Also, in reality, the 4 "big" cores make very little difference in terms of performance. I did 2 benches in another thread, where Antutu came up 40K with 4 cores and 45k with 8 cores. Although this seems like a large performance decrease, without the big cores the phone was cool, still ran quick, and drained far less battery.
Finally, having 8 cores also can introduce performance deficits as well, especially if your hotplug is inefficient (there may be delays in turning on cores, resulting in UI jank). I thus recommend simply leaving them off- better battery, cooling, and still decent performance.
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Hi all,
The Snapdragon 625 is one of the best mid range processors. It is powerful and very power efficient. I can get at least 5 hours of sot. In cpu z only all 8 cores can be used at the same time and they all have the same frequency (generally 652, 2016 or 1401 MHz). Does anyone know the clock speed of the two quad cores that make the Snapdragon 625
DarthMaul14 said:
Hi all,
The Snapdragon 625 is one of the best mid range processors. It is powerful and very power efficient. I can get at least 5 hours of sot. In cpu z only all 8 cores can be used at the same time and they all have the same frequency (generally 652, 2016 or 1401 MHz). Does anyone know the clock speed of the two quad cores that make the Snapdragon 625
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The Snapdragon 625 is not a littleBIG architecture processor, all cores are the same, it is a true 8 core processor, not 2 quad core processors.
Ok thanks! So can each core can't go at their own frequency and all 8 cores must work at the same time.
DarthMaul14 said:
Ok thanks! So can each core can't go at their own frequency and all 8 cores must work at the same time.
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No, hey can throttle independent of each other, my guess is the default governor of the kernel does it that way because there is no real power savings.
True. I have a feeling that if the kernel allowed each core to run when it was needed and stopped when it isn't it would have been more power efficient.
DarthMaul14 said:
True. I have a feeling that if the kernel allowed each core to run when it was needed and stopped when it isn't it would have been more power efficient.
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Maybe... But the SD625 is pretty efficient as it is, plus there is a lot of issues with programs that report core usage on Nougat, it might actually be doing that but reporting incorrectly.
True. I tried 3 apps similar to cpu z and I got the same 3 frequencies and all the cores were being used. Do you think the Oreo update might fix that issue.
DarthMaul14 said:
True. I tried 3 apps similar to cpu z and I got the same 3 frequencies and all the cores were being used. Do you think the Oreo update might fix that issue.
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No idea... My guess is no, most of this is due to changes in Android permissions, but honestly it works, it's quick and lag-free and great on battery, so I don't care about the details.
True