Database Users

Idea (regarding google apps and devs)

I saw (I can't remember where and even tried googling for a while and couldn't find it again) a website that lists packages for phone manufacturers. One was like, stock (like what's on the g1 w/"with google" branding) another one was custom ui etc (I am assuming the package used for motoblur and rosie). < or something that that effect.
Now my point: I am not sure the cost of these licenses, but I was thinking maybe one entity (xda for example). Could purchase a license (with donation money) and allow devs like cyanogen, maxisma, drizzy, jac etc operate under that license.
Not this is just an idea, I don't know too much about licenses and how they work etc. its just an idea to discuss.

CBowley said:
I saw (I can't remember where and even tried googling for a while and couldn't find it again) a website that lists packages for phone manufacturers. One was like, stock (like what's on the g1 w/"with google" branding) another one was custom ui etc (I am assuming the package used for motoblur and rosie). < or something that that effect.
Now my point: I am not sure the cost of these licenses, but I was thinking maybe one entity (xda for example). Could purchase a license (with donation money) and allow devs like cyanogen, maxisma, drizzy, jac etc operate under that license.
Not this is just an idea, I don't know too much about licenses and how they work etc. its just an idea to discuss.
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thats a stopgap until Google decides to change the agreement for their closed source software. the real solution is a fully open source flavor of android with proprietary repositories (a la Ubuntu)

alapapa said:
thats a stopgap until Google decides to change the agreement for their closed source software. the real solution is a fully open source flavor of android with proprietary repositories (a la Ubuntu)
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It's not a stop gap, this would actually be effective, as it would legally allow them to include those apps in the ROMs.
But, how much those licenses cost is a whole nother world.

Yeah, I posted this very suggestion in one of the first threads created about this topic. I even have some ideas about funding and possible non-profit status for the organization that acquires the license for distribution... but it was lost in the *****ing and moaning.

Yes I believe that would be a viable option as far as licensing goes there are a set terms to them that after has been agreed to like a contract can't change we would be fine. But as the case with Blizzard entertainment they can change and most likely will all the time. I aggree best option would to be make a full open source option that would allow us to operate without the google apps but that is very tricky as well, for service especially like YouTube that has terms of use and unless sactioned by them they don't want you using that service. It was for that reason why youtube downloader was pulled from the market and also violated ToS for downloading. No other youtube app has really poped up. Another solution like has pointed out in dev forum is to back them up from a google image already on the device. They specially said we can't distribute them. Currently I am trying to find the terms for it if any one can find for me that would be great. Another idea that I have was to make an application that would allow user to install what ever custom rom without google apps then find the approriate image from google for the device rom is installed on. Download that image ROM file and extract out google apps and install on the device. Since was ment for that and I or xda won't be distrubting the apps that might fall as acceptible in their terms. If anyone can find the terms I would greatly appreciate it.

TheArtiszan said:
Yes I believe that would be a viable option as far as licensing goes there are a set terms to them that after has been agreed to like a contract can't change we would be fine. But as the case with Blizzard entertainment they can change and most likely will all the time. I aggree best option would to be make a full open source option that would allow us to operate without the google apps but that is very tricky as well, for service especially like YouTube that has terms of use and unless sactioned by them they don't want you using that service. It was for that reason why youtube downloader was pulled from the market and also violated ToS for downloading. No other youtube app has really poped up. Another solution like has pointed out in dev forum is to back them up from a google image already on the device. They specially said we can't distribute them. Currently I am trying to find the terms for it if any one can find for me that would be great. Another idea that I have was to make an application that would allow user to install what ever custom rom without google apps then find the approriate image from google for the device rom is installed on. Download that image ROM file and extract out google apps and install on the device. Since was ment for that and I or xda won't be distrubting the apps that might fall as acceptible in their terms. If anyone can find the terms I would greatly appreciate it.
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well if flash comes out next month we wont need the youtube app.

Lol have you tried hero w flash. Slow as hell

well that not the official version so it hard to say. yeah did but the hero builds seem slow to me.

Jacheroski2.1 was pretty quick once swapper and everything was setup correctly

TheArtiszan said:
Lol have you tried hero w flash. Slow as hell
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yea but adobe plans to release flash 10 for android as early as october

I read that Cyanogen or someone is already working on a workaround..kinda. A backup program which will backup your currently legal device apps, and upon install of his bare-bones rom, restore the original device apps.
Things will be close to the same. Just a bump in the road. They should know, people will always find a way. Legal or not.

Android Security: A neglected subject (long)

First of all: I'm an OSS advocate and love the idea of open source. Don't forget that while reading this.
Some 2 month ago, I got myself a Galaxy S. It's not exactly cheap, but on the other side, it's really good hardware. This thread is not about Samsung or the Galaxy S. It's about the missing parts of android security.
We all know it from our home computers: Software sometimes has bugs. Some just annoy us, others are potentially dangerous for our beloved data. Our data sometimes gets stolen or deleted due to viruses. Viruses enter our machines by exploiting bugs that allow for code execution or priviledge escalation. To stay patched, we regularly execute our "apt-get update;apt-get dist-upgrade" or use windows update. We do this to close security holes on our systems.
In the PC world, the software and OS manufacturers release security bulletins to inform users of potentially dangerous issues. They say how to work around them or provide a patch.
How do we stay informed about issues and keep our Android devices updated?
Here's what Google says:
We will publicly announce security bugs when the fixes are available via postings to the android-security-announce group on Google Groups.
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Click to collapse
Source: http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/faq/security.html#informed
OK, that particular group is empty (except for a welcome post). Maybe there are no bugs in Android. Go check yourself and google a bit - they do exist.
"So why doesn't Google tell us?", you ask. I don't know. What I know is that the various components of Android (WebKit, kernel, ...) do have bugs. There's nothing wrong with that BTW, software is made by people - and people make mistakes and write buggy code all the time. Just read the changelogs or release notes.
"Wait", I head you say, "there are no changelogs or release notes for Android releases".
Oh - so let's sum up what we need to stay informed about security issues, bugs and workarounds:
* Security bulletins and
* Patches or Workaround information
What of these do we have? Right, nada, zilch, rien.
I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's good common practise.
"But why is this important anyway", you ask.
Well, remember my example above. You visit a website and suddenly find all your stored passwords floating around on the internet. Don't tell me that's not possible, there was a WebKit bug in 2.2 that did just that. Another scenario would be a drive-by download that breaks out of the sandbox and makes expensive phone calls. Or orders subscriptions for monthly new ringtones, raising your bill by orders of magnitute. Or shares your music on illegal download portals (shh, don't tell the RIAA that this is remotely possible).
The bug is probably fixed in 2.2.1 - but without changelogs we can't be sure.
But that's not all - there's a second problem. Not only are we unaware of security issues, we also don't have automated update mechanisms.
We only receive updates when our phone's manufacturers release new firmware. Sadly, not all manufacturers support their phones in the long run.
In the PC world, most Distros have a central package management - that Google forgot to implement in Android. Agreed, some phones can receive OTA updates, but that depends on the carrier. And because of the differences in Android versions it's not possible to have a central patch management either. So we do not know if our Android devices might have security issues. We also have no easy way to patch them.
Perhaps you knew this before, then I apologize for taking your time.
What do YOU - the computer literate and security aware XDA users - think about this? Do you think that's a problem? Or would you rather say that these are minor problems?

Very intresting, thanks! The update problem should be fixed with the next release, no more custom UIs and mods from phone manufacturers,at least google said that
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Excellent post and quite agree with you. The other significant problem looming is the granularity (or rather, lack thereof) in app permissions which can cause problems you describe without bugs and exploits. I install an app that does something interesting with contacts and also has internet access to display ads. How do I know that my contacts are not encrypted, so making sniffing useless, and beamed back to mummy? Nothing other than blind trust!
I love Android but it's an accident waiting to happen unless the kind of changes you advocate are implemented and granularity of permissions significantly increased. I don't like much about Apple but their walled garden app store is something they did get right although IMHO, they also abuse that power to stifle competition. Bring out the feds!

simonta said:
The other significant problem looming is the granularity (or rather, lack thereof) in app permissions [...]
How do I know that my contacts are not encrypted, so making sniffing useless, and beamed back to mummy? Nothing other than blind trust!
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I agree, although I'm not sure that less experienced users might have difficulties with such options.
simonta said:
I love Android but it's an accident waiting to happen
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Sad but true. I'm just curious what Google will do when the first problems arise and the first users will have groundshaking bills.
If that happens to just a few users, it'll get a kind media coverage Google surely won't like.

I've seen quite a few android exploits posted on bugtraq over the years. It's a high-volume email list, but with some filtering of stuff you don't care about, it becomes manageable. It's been around forever and is a good resource if you want the latest security news on just about anything computer related.
http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/description

People are bashing a lot about the Android security model but the truth is you can never have 100% protection with ANY solution.
Apple is not allowing any app in their store. Fine. but mostly they are only filtering out apps that crash, violate some rules or they just don't like them or whatever. but they can never tell what an app is really doing. Therefore they would neeed to reverse-engineer every app they get etc. That's just impossible considering the amount of apps....
Speaking again of Android. I think the permission model is not bad. I mean, no other OS got such detailed description about what an app can do or not. But unfortunately it can only filter out very conspicuous apps, i.e. a Reversi game asking for your location and internet access. But then you never know... if the app is using ads it requires location and internet access, right? so what can you do?

RAMMANN said:
Apple is not allowing any app in their store. Fine. but mostly they are only filtering out apps that crash, violate some rules or they just don't like them or whatever. but they can never tell what an app is really doing. Therefore they would neeed to reverse-engineer every app they get etc. That's just impossible considering the amount of apps....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really, they do blackbox testing and let the apps run on emulated devices they then check if the app "behaves" as desired...

Of course you can't get 100% security and I don't think that's what we're saying, but there is a lot you can do.
Take for example internet access which is the biggest worry I have. The only reason most apps request internet access is to support ads. I now have a choice to make, don't use the app or trust it. That simple, no other choice.
If I installed an app that serves ads but did not have internet access, then the only way that app can get information off my phone is to use exploits and I'm a lot more comfortable knowing that some miscreant needs to understand that than the current situation where some script kiddy can hoover up my contacts.
However, if internet access and ad serving were separate permissions, you could in one hit address, taking a wild guess, 90% of the risk from the wild west that is Marketplace. With a bit more design and work, it would be possible to get the risk down to manageable and acceptable levels (at least for me).
I absolutely agree with you on Apple, one of the main reasons that I chose a Desire instead of an iPhone, but the Android approach is too far the other way IMHO.
Just my tuppence, in a hopeless cause of imagining someone at Google paying attention and thinking you know what, it is an accident waiting to happen.

marty1976 said:
Not really, they do blackbox testing and let the apps run on emulated devices they then check if the app "behaves" as desired...
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Click to collapse
Well, so why did a tethering app once make it into the appstore?
Also I think there are many possibilities for an app to behave normal, and just start some bad activity after some time. Wait a couple months until the app is spread around and then bang. Or remotely launch some action initiated through push notifications etc.
If there is interest, then there is always a way....

simonta said:
However, if internet access and ad serving were separate permissions, you could in one hit address, taking a wild guess, 90% of the risk from the wild west that is Marketplace. With a bit more design and work, it would be possible to get the risk down to manageable and acceptable levels (at least for me).
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Click to collapse
I agree that a seperate permission for ads would be a good thing.
But there are still many apps which need your location, contacts, internet access.... all the social media things nowadays. And this is where the whole thing will be going to so I think in the future it will be even harder to differenciate.

Getting back on topic: I just read that Windows 7 Phone will get updates and patches like desktop windows. That means patchday once a month plus when urgency is high...

simonta said:
However, if internet access and ad serving were separate permissions, you could in one hit address, taking a wild guess, 90% of the risk from the wild west that is Marketplace. With a bit more design and work, it would be possible to get the risk down to manageable and acceptable levels (at least for me).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, how do you distinguish them? Today, (as a developer) I can use any ad-provider I want. In order to distinguish ads from general internet access, the OS would need one of:
A Google-defined ad interface, which stifles "creativity" in ad design. Developers would simply ignore it and do what they do now as soon as their preferred ad-provider didn't want to support the "official" ad system or provided some improvement by doing so.
An OS update to support every new ad-provider (yuck^2).
Every ad-provider would have to go through a Google whitelist that was looked up on the fly (increased traffic, and all ads are now "visible" to Google whether Google is involved in the transaction or not). This would also make ad-blocking apps harder to implement since Google's whitelisting API might not behave if the whitelist was unavailable. On the upside, it would make ad-blocking in custom ROMs be trivial.
Even if Google did one of these things, it still wouldn't provide any real increase in privacy or security. The "ad service" would still need to deliver a payload from the app to the service (in order to select ads) and another from the service to the app (the ad content). Such a mechanism could be trivially exploited to do anything that simple HTTP access could provide.

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
issues submitted are reviewed by google employed techs... they tell you if you messed up and caused the issue or if the issue will be fixed in a future release or whatever info they find.
probably not the best way to handle it but its better then nothing.

twztdwyz said:
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
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Knew that bug tracker, but the free tagging aka labels isn't the best idea IMHO.
You can't search for a specific release, for example...
twztdwyz said:
probably not the best way to handle it but its better then nothing.
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Ack, but I think Google can do _much_ better...

Two more things to have in mind:
1. I doubt that many Android users bother much about what permissions they give to an app.
2. Using Google to sync your contacts and calendar (and who knows what else), is a bad, bad idea.

[Q] Do you lose anything by rooting?

I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868

Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

DroidBois said:
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
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Click to collapse
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
SacGuru said:
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
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Click to collapse
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.

Rirere said:
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
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You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

SacGuru said:
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.

Rirere said:
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

SacGuru said:
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.

Edit

SacGuru said:
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we're reading the comment a little differently. This is why I brought up what I did.
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the questions being asked, I think it's reasonable to assume OP doesn't know anything about rooting or ROMs, so I'm being a little more liberal in looking at this comment than I would be otherwise. As such, I'd rather err on giving them information a little outside the original scope than too little.

Rirere said:
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment). Somehow your answer seemed pretty similar to mine ('just about everything would be fine'), so I just wondered why you had to mention to me problems with apps like the google wallet which are easily fixed.
By now, I am sure both of us understand what the other is talking about. Also, the op has enough info to take a decision on his own. My only qualm is that the inclusion of some seemingly complex terminology might turn him off rooting his device
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.

DroidBois said:
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not had any problems with Google Play services and root, although most of my books are sideloaded after ripping DRM off of Amazon purchases (I don't really believe in the idea of a "perpetual lease"). As someone who has spent time working on that "employer junk" for corporate use, it may annoy the living **** out of you as a rooted user, but from a corporate standpoint it's actually pretty damn important.
Now, as far as MTP goes, don't quote me on this, but I remember seeing a setting in DriveDroid a while back (it's an app that lets you mount an ISO on your computer by connecting your device) that would let you change your USB connection mode to something other than MTP/PTP. I dont' remember the acronym, unfortunately, but it was a lot more in line with the way a "standard" USB device would connect (with the attendant issues of not using FUSE).

LineageOS/CM are there benefits for privacy?

In the last year I've moved to Linux to protect myself from Microsoft. I know there's a lot of FUD but given that Microsoft can't join a nut and a bolt I don't trust their privy and clumsy hands in my stuff.
I was wondering if LineageOS/CM had that kind of benefit for privacy as opposed to stock firmware? Are there any other ROM that could be?
Thanks!

Prosis said:
In the last year I've moved to Linux to protect myself from Microsoft. I know there's a lot of FUD but given that Microsoft can't join a nut and a bolt I don't trust their privy and clumsy hands in my stuff.
I was wondering if LineageOS/CM had that kind of benefit for privacy as opposed to stock firmware? Are there any other ROM that could be?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably more privacy than stock with Lenovo, but if you install gapps you can forget privacy with google, and even without Gapps iam doubtful. The Google business is to know our life
And I don't talk using apps like Facebook or whatsapp...
I think it's a question of shades, you can't be fully protected, but you can reduce risks

fablebreton said:
Probably more privacy than stock with Lenovo, but if you install gapps you can forget privacy with google, and even without Gapps iam doubtful. The Google business is to know our life
And I don't talk using apps like Facebook or whatsapp...
I think it's a question of shades, you can't be fully protected, but you can reduce risks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I get what you mean. Except the "Probably more privacy than stock with Lenovo". Is there a privacy problem with Lenovo?

Prosis said:
Yeah I get what you mean. Except the "Probably more privacy than stock with Lenovo". Is there a privacy problem with Lenovo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not only chinese companies like lenovo, but do you think chinese communist party is democratic ?
If it's currently admited that google work with NSA, don't you think Chinese autorities wouldn't like to use all these smartphone made in china and sold all around the world
If you don't trust MS as you said, it would be a little bit naive to trust chineses companies
But i'am afraid we have to live with it. when i see the download number of facebook on playstore i think most people don't care anymore about privacy , so why governments or big companies would care to not spy us.
Even on xda a lot of people continue to use supersu (closedsource and chinese owned) rather than magisk-phh opensource, most people simply don't care.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/174...lled-on-lenovo-huawei-and-xiaomi-smartphones/
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/ar...a-smartphones-spy-on-users-researchers-found/
lenovo laptops :
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/...use-of-lenovo-computers-over-chinese-spyware/
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/military-warns-chinese-computer-gear-poses-cyber-spy-threat/
http://thehackernews.com/2015/09/lenovo-laptop-virus.html
And we don't talk about qualcomm "bug" that could be an usefull backdoor : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...million-android-devices-vulnerable-to-attack/

Wow I wasn't aware of all of this! I also didn't know SuperSU was closed source.
Is there a ROM you use that you would suggest?

The less stuff you run the less spyware you're likely to run into.
Two weeks ago I gave up on Google Play Services and it feels great, less stupid useless services in the background.
I've running a really debloated version of CyanogenMod 13 with xposed and the only Google apps I left there were Maps and Translator.
Now I would love to stop using WhatsApp to move myself out of Facebook hands, but most of my contacts are there instead of Telegram so that will be harder.
Love android hate google.

OliverG96 said:
The less stuff you run the less spyware you're likely to run into.
Two weeks ago I gave up on Google Play Services and it feels great, less stupid useless services in the background.
I've running a really debloated version of CyanogenMod 13 with xposed and the only Google apps I left there were Maps and Translator.
Now I would love to stop using WhatsApp to move myself out of Facebook hands, but most of my contacts are there instead of Telegram so that will be harder.
Love android hate google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'm going down that road too. I have Facebook but barely use it anyway. I just installed LOS 14.1 and I think I will keep it. I was thinking of getting Xposed and Xprivacy as well.

Noob dipping toe in Android waters...

Hi -
As the title says, I'm a total Android noob. I tried a droid phone many years ago, but found it irritating and fiddly, and went with an iPhone. I'm no fan of Apple, but it works pretty good, and as long as I was able to jailbreak the phone, I was OK with it. I think the future of JB for iphone may well be at the end of the road. If I ever have to replace or reload my iphone, then I lose my JB & I'm locked into Apple's walled garden. Unacceptable, as then I lose my ad-block and other items that make the device tolerable.
Realizing that my current iPhone is very likely my last, I snagged a Samsung Galaxy Tab A SM-T580 to see if I could learn to live with Android. One of my biggest issues with Android is Google. I despise Google and avoid using Google & their services to the greatest extent possible. (Yes, I know, flames and criticism headed my way for saying that ).
I don't want anyone's cloud, mail or other services.; I have my own servers for caldav, mail and file services. I want a stripped down, unbloated, and ad blocking android experience that is as free as possible from google or 3rd party services.
I understand there are other images (Cyanagen, AOKP, etc) but I don't know enough about any of this yet to know what I'd be getting into there.
But as a start, following a guide found here on XDA, I have rooted the tablet, and using Titanium, removed a good bit of the bloatware. I notice that since rooting the tablet, there is a 6 - 8 second delay after entering the pin code and hitting OK before the tablet unlocks. Not sure what that's all about.
There's a lot to learn and a lot of mis-information out there. It's hard to find a straight answer. Any tips or info appreciated as I try and figure out how to get as close as possible to my goal.

kalart said:
Hi -
As the title says, I'm a total Android noob. I tried a droid phone many years ago, but found it irritating and fiddly, and went with an iPhone. I'm no fan of Apple, but it works pretty good, and as long as I was able to jailbreak the phone, I was OK with it. I think the future of JB for iphone may well be at the end of the road. If I ever have to replace or reload my iphone, then I lose my JB & I'm locked into Apple's walled garden. Unacceptable, as then I lose my ad-block and other items that make the device tolerable.
Realizing that my current iPhone is very likely my last, I snagged a Samsung Galaxy Tab A SM-T580 to see if I could learn to live with Android. One of my biggest issues with Android is Google. I despise Google and avoid using Google & their services to the greatest extent possible. (Yes, I know, flames and criticism headed my way for saying that ).
I don't want anyone's cloud, mail or other services.; I have my own servers for caldav, mail and file services. I want a stripped down, unbloated, and ad blocking android experience that is as free as possible from google or 3rd party services.
I understand there are other images (Cyanagen, AOKP, etc) but I don't know enough about any of this yet to know what I'd be getting into there.
But as a start, following a guide found here on XDA, I have rooted the tablet, and using Titanium, removed a good bit of the bloatware. I notice that since rooting the tablet, there is a 6 - 8 second delay after entering the pin code and hitting OK before the tablet unlocks. Not sure what that's all about.
There's a lot to learn and a lot of mis-information out there. It's hard to find a straight answer. Any tips or info appreciated as I try and figure out how to get as close as possible to my goal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My advice.
Ignore built.prop mods. I haven't seen any empirical evidence to prove it does what people say it does. Infact I've read more to say its bolony. However, I did find 3c toolbox improved my battery life on my Galaxy s5 with lineage os installed.
I managed to remove google from my android box. Use aptiode for an app store.
Download F droid,
Install newpipe YouTube client. Then ads are banished forever.
Install ad-away. Helps block ads on browser.
I use mi-explorer.
Don't use greenify or clean master they don't help.
With 3c toolbox and root you can remove a load of rubbish. My basic M8S runs really great with google removed.
I would recommend lineage OS, I have it running on 3 devices so far. I'm the nougat Aosp from this forum on my tab 10.1.