Moto G4 Plus in Canada - Moto G4 Plus Questions & Answers

Hey y'all
I'm just curious if the Moto G4 Plus in Canada has a 3GB option available? A lot of the carriers information states the 32GB version with only 2 gigs of RAM...just wondering and wanting to confirm.

zeeBomb said:
Hey y'all
I'm just curious if the Moto G4 Plus in Canada has a 3GB option available? A lot of the carriers information states the 32GB version with only 2 gigs of RAM...just wondering and wanting to confirm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have links to the Canadian carriers that list the 32 GB and 2 GB on the specification sheet?
According to GSM Arena, the RAM in the Moto G4 Plus (link below, check the far-right column) is determined by the onboard storage. 32 GB ROM comes with 3 GB RAM.
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=8103&idPhone2=8104&idPhone3=8050
I haven't been able to find any Canadian retailer that sells this phone unlocked, unfortunately :/
However, I do have a $125 tab credit with Koodo, and thus was planning on buying it from them.
https://www.koodomobile.com/phones/moto-g-plus
That product page ^^ lists 32 GB of storage, so fingers crossed we Canadians don't get ****ed over like we did on last year's Moto G (which was limited to 1 GB of RAM when sold in Canada).

AvidPhisherman said:
I haven't been able to find any Canadian retailer that sells this phone unlocked, unfortunately :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm looking at this phone for my next device, I'd love to buy it unlocked! Though if I end up buying it from Koodo, I hope they won't prevent bootloader unlock, like the Xperia phone I last got.

Snaptraks said:
I'm looking at this phone for my next device, I'd love to buy it unlocked! Though if I end up buying it from Koodo, I hope they won't prevent bootloader unlock, like the Xperia phone I last got.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Canadian Moto E2s and Moto G3s were eligible for bootloader unlock, so the G4 should be as well.

32/2 here in chile too... looks like no 32/3 outside india/USA

dhk.- said:
32/2 here in chile too... looks like no 32/3 outside india/USA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not raelly

Spain, Brazil, Mexico, Chile, and so forth... can only get the 2GB RAM/32GB storage version...
UK and USA can choose between 2/32 or 4/64 versions...
India can choose between 2/32 and 3/32
Canada... sadly to say only 2/32..
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Dang, I guess no 3/32GB version UNLESS I manage to get my hands on an unlocked version. That's okay.
Now, another question:
I've been trying to look for a case and screen protector (tempered glass) that can be shipped here in Canada. Any results?

zeeBomb said:
Dang, I guess no 3/32GB version UNLESS I manage to get my hands on an unlocked version. That's okay.
Now, another question:
I've been trying to look for a case and screen protector (tempered glass) that can be shipped here in Canada. Any results?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not an unlocked version, an Indian version. It looks like only India got the 3GB option.

Bought one today for my wife. Very nice phone for the money!
Unfortunately Canadians have no option to get the 3 GB RAM version, but for my wife's use case she'll be fine with 2 GB.
We bought it through Koodo using a previous tab credit and got a $50 "bonus gift" discount so in total got $175 off, not bad at all. It is locked to Koodo currently however should we ever need to unlock it it will be easy to do so.

Related

Decoding manufacture serial number/date?

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(Image might not load due to referrer issues, try copy/pasting link to seperate window and refreshing if that's the case)
Looking at the leak picture and mine, I think it's:
SSN: D70KBC470174
D: Unknown: 2013? (If A is 2000)
7: July?
0K: Unknown
B: Black?
C: China?
470174: Unknown (possibly incremented unique value?)
(Fields 3 and 7 are mashed together until I can seperate them)
Mine was manufactured in June 2013 and the code is D60KBC1xxxxx.
Anyone else willing to throw in their serial numbers to assist?
You can either post part/all of it and details here or PM me and I'll filter out the unique parts.
What I need: (everything is on the box label)
Serial number (of course)
Date of manufacture
Location of manufacture
Model type: wifi/lte 16/32gb
I'll look up any threads on decoding the OG N7 in a bits, I'm guessing it will be a similar system since it's also made by ASUS
2013 China:
June:
D60KBC1xxxxx (wifi 16gb)
D60KBC1xxxxx (wifi 32gb)
D60KBC2xxxxx (wifi 32gb)
D60KBC3xxxxx (wifi 32gb)
July:
D70KBC4xxxxx (LTE 32gb)
D70KBC4xxxxx (wifi 32gb)
August:
D80KBC5xxxx (LTE 32gb)[?]
I have a D60KBC3xxxxx SSN and it's from Wal-Mart - 32GB
Made in China 2013/06
Ssn: D60KBC2XXXXX
32 gb
Made in China 2013.06
Bought at bestbuy
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
oneandroidnut said:
Ssn: D60KBC2XXXXX
Made in China 2013.06
Bought at bestbuy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, is yours a 16 or 32gb one? i'm going to make it more clear in op
Starting to get impression there's no way to predict lte/wifi and size from purely the serial number, ah well.
But it definitely seems like you can predict location and date of manufacture though.
TheManii said:
Thanks, is yours a 16 or 32gb one? i'm going to make it more clear in op
Starting to get impression there's no way to predict lte/wifi and size from purely the serial number, ah well.
But it definitely seems like you can predict location and date of manufacture though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad sorry. 32 gb
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Mine must be a brand new batch
Purchased yesterday (10/23/2013) from BestBuy. It's the LTE model
Made in China
"K009 D80KBC5xxxxx"
bntran02 said:
Purchased yesterday (10/23/2013) from BestBuy. It's the LTE model
Made in China
"K009 D80KBC5xxxxx"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When was it manufactured? was it august 2013?
TheManii said:
When was it manufactured? was it august 2013?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't tell you at the moment. I don't see it on the device so it must be on the box which I do not have on me right this second. Ill check when I get home
Here is mine but mine isn't a LTE.
D70KBC4*****
I bought mine from Best Buy. It's a 32gig model.
lespaulman67 said:
Here is mine but mine isn't a LTE.
D70KBC4*****
I bought mine from Best Buy. It's a 32gig model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have your box handy? was it manufactured in july?
TheManii said:
Do you have your box handy? was it manufactured in july?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2013.07 that's what's on box. Give me some info if any.
TheManii said:
When was it manufactured? was it august 2013?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the late reply. But yes. Mine was manufactured in august! Yay me =)
Mine says 2013.09 N7LTE 32G, not much problem with the grounding IF it is plugged with main charger, started to act weird if it's not....annoying a tad but doesn't do enough justice for me to go the extra mile for exchanging hassle since there are no play store in region.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
D80KBC05XXXXX
This is an LTE 32 Gb. Manufactured 08/2013 in China.
The 2nd digit seems to be the month. If the month is only one digit, then they'll have to go to letters for those made in Oct through Dec. Either that or 2nd & 3rd place are the month.
D70KBC2XXXXX 32 gig wifi only modele
2013.07 China
Bought on google store
N7 serial
Mine has
K008
DA0KBC******
It's 32G wifi.
Made in China Bought from Craiglist Feb 2014.
To those with the later models, do you still have the grounding issues? I'm thinking of purchasing a new one and would like to know if the hardware problem is fixed on those models. That way I just give mine, that was the initial release batch, to my girlfriend. She won't notice the issue. Thanks.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
I got my n7 last month but its old July 2013 stock. Was anything fixed in later batches that can't be fixed via software?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Q] Is this the right time to buy a Note 3

End of December 2013, with CES right around corner. Is this a good time to buy a Note 3 or should I wait for something like S5?
Depends on what u prefer a phablet or a phone.
Time for buying note 3 is great, its cashback time
hit 'thanks' if i helped you
SM-N9005 DBT-DMJ7 0x0
XDA Developers 4 premium app
I think for Promo's and cashbacks and other stuffs as previous comment said, the answer is yes.
But actually, Samsung phones are going through a tough time now with the latest firmware builds.. Battery life is really bad ESPECIALLY if you are using Mobile data. It's almost same for S3 and Note 2 also... Dats why I created this thread here - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2579075
My advice however is! Wait just a little bit, KitKat will soon be released for the Note 3. See what it brings... And then u can make ur decision. In about 1 month, KitKat will be released officially... Which means that we will get some leaks soon. Just be patient.
I normally buy every Samsung Flagship. But next year, I am waiting for the successors of HTC One, LG G2 and LG Optimus G Pro. Since Samsung decided to start playing with their bootloaders
ASKnASK said:
End of December 2013, with CES right around corner. Is this a good time to buy a Note 3 or should I wait for something like S5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMHO the S5 will only be delivered in March (the earliest), and at that point a 32GB version might be a lot more expensive than a Note 3 now or at the start of January.
Now or the start of January is also a good spot for another reason - if you look around a little you might not only find a large discount but also one of the models that still come with MI7 or MJ1/MJ2 bootloader, so you can still root with Universal Root De La Vega (if you really need to keep your knox warranty flag). That was why I bought mine about a month ago or so - even if the prices were still not great the old models were slowly running-out and being replaced with phones that come directly with MJ7 or similar (new bootloader).
In my experience, waiting can be disappointing where these devices are concern. I owned a S4 for a month, I really didn't gain the advantages of it over my S3. Then I was keeping an eye on the LG G2 and Nexus 5, to no avail, disappointment on both ends when they were released. Finally, I found the note 3 to be quite impressive and with a $700+ price tag, I went for it and I am very satisfied- S Note being my favourite native app.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Thanks for the responses guys. I'm getting a Note 3 right now for about $600 here in Pakistan. That's the LTE version (9005).
Only problem is that the black one went out of stock -_-
ASKnASK said:
Thanks for the responses guys. I'm getting a Note 3 right now for about $600 here in Pakistan. That's the LTE version (9005).
Only problem is that the black one went out of stock -_-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
White one is nice. ..I changed my black one for a white one and am very happy. ...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
I'm planning to buy one soon as well.
Sold my S4 LTE, and was planning to buy Note 3 LTE, when I heard news they're bringing out 3 new colors for Note 3 of which I'm waiting for Rose Gold Black impatiently
Just look at this beauty!
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That depends, if you just want the phone now is a good time, I got one overnighted for $200 (with contract renewal).
If you want to root it and run ROMs then you may want something else or to wait.
I intend to do the latter and will just have to be patient since I have this:
AP: N900AUCUBMI9
CP: N900AUCUBMI9
CSC: N900AATTBMI9​I am SOL for now.
That said the device is awesome.
Bought it. Got delivered day before yesterday. N-9005 32GB Black
ASKnASK said:
Bought it. Got delivered day before yesterday. N-9005 32GB Black
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
congrats
which firmware version it came with??
Do you plan to update it after all those battery drian cases on latest firmware???
any idea about exynos version price in ISL???
if you plane to buy note 3 do not update to MJ7 OR MK2 STAY WITH OLD ROM
Sent from my SM-N900 using xda app-developers app
gull_s_777 said:
congrats
which firmware version it came with??
Do you plan to update it after all those battery drian cases on latest firmware???
any idea about exynos version price in ISL???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't check what it came with. Rooted/Flashed as soon as I unboxed it.
And you can get the Exynos one for 62k.
CoolPyr0 said:
if you plane to buy note 3 do not update to MJ7 OR MK2 STAY WITH OLD ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already updated (custom ROM). Battery is fine. One my second day (first charge) and still 50% left.

Black Friday Deals

As there are still many of us looking to invest in a shield. We should start listing the best deals we can find for the tablet and official accessories for black Friday and cyber Monday.
Searching a week or two ago, I found nothing. BUT that was a week or two ago. I wonder if the app stores will have any deals on games?
---------- Post added at 05:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46 PM ----------
So a quick search came up with
www.zdnet.com/amazon-reveals-black-friday-deals-free-paid-apps-bargain-tech-7000036001/
No shield but who knows what kind of app deals might pop up. ??
I am keeping my eyes out for deals, nothing yet. Will post if I find something
Im not having luck finding the shield on sale. I imagine amazon will go crazy with deals on apps
I'd be a but surprised if this goes in sale, the price is already great for an android tablet, but it isn't a big name like Samsung or any of the Nexus line.
Please share anything you find
Black Friday o_0.... What are you talking about..,,. The shield... THEE SHIELD tablet starts at $299.... Who needs black Friday
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using Tapatalk
Last year the Shield Portable had a black friday sale everywhere. $299 reduced to $249 with the case thrown in. Also, it wasn't announced until thanksgiving day.
http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-shield-down-249-free-case-and-games-black-friday
I'm hopeful we will get something similar this year. If so, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. If not, I'll probably buy a used LG G Pad GPE.
Personally, I'm hoping for $249 with the cover and the green box thrown in for free. Maybe even a $299 option that includes the controller.
Well, it's happening but i it's only the LTE version which I have no use for.
http://www.phonedog.com/2014/11/23/...nclude-shield-tablet-free-controller-and-more
Poke_N_PDA said:
Well, it's happening but i it's only the LTE version which I have no use for.
http://www.phonedog.com/2014/11/23/...nclude-shield-tablet-free-controller-and-more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me too. was hoping the 16gb wifi version to drop to 249.
Poke_N_PDA said:
Last year the Shield Portable had a black friday sale everywhere. $299 reduced to $249 with the case thrown in. Also, it wasn't announced until thanksgiving day.
http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-shield-down-249-free-case-and-games-black-friday
I'm hopeful we will get something similar this year. If so, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. If not, I'll probably buy a used LG G Pad GPE.
Personally, I'm hoping for $249 with the cover and the green box thrown in for free. Maybe even a $299 option that includes the controller.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have fun with that LG, completely different products for different uses there, if you are just looking for a cheap tablet then the Shield is not where you need to be anyways.
Woot! http://shield.nvidia.com/promotions...IHETpodcMTcRlPa+TFAwTG5toziV8R7HAKs1v3NsQXBXg
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Booooo, what a shame, I wanted wifi one deal, not interested at all on the LTE one (I don't even have LTE on my country). Won't be buying this time, maybe next year when the price drops.
BlazeHN said:
Booooo, what a shame, I wanted wifi one deal, not interested at all on the LTE one (I don't even have LTE on my country). Won't be buying this time, maybe next year when the price drops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As did I. Ended up using a $30 off $150 purchase at tigerdirect.com
I wonder is that just when buying direct from Nvidia or if other retailers are included also.
system60 said:
I wonder is that just when buying direct from Nvidia or if other retailers are included also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sent an email asking the same question I will update when I get a response.
Update:
c l: Will the black Friday Sale of the Nvidia Shield tablet be available only online?
Mohemed Arshad: Let me check on that.
c l: Ok thanks
Mohemed Arshad: Yes, Black Friday Sale of NVIDIA SHIELD is available only Online. Retails store information has not updated on the website yet. More info will be updated soon
c l: So to confirm the sale will only be available online and not in any of the physical stores?
Mohemed Arshad: That information is not updated yet, currently its only for online stores.
Glad I have free LTE
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using Tapatalk
I really hope we see a deal on the wifi version as well, even just toss in the case for free or something.

Cheapest place to purchase Mate 7

Hi Guys,
I just purchase a brand new unlocked Huawei Mate 7 Gold 32gb (LT10) for $480 (EUR 400 / GBP 317).. I was surprised that his is the retail price set by Huawei! Keep in mind that the purchasing power is high in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Countries (UAE, Qatar, Kuwait.. etc).. usually phones are more expensive over there (simply because people can afford it!)
but the HAM7 is much cheaper than Europe and US.. I think it's even cheaper than Asia!!
What's the cheapest HAM7 32gb you've found ?
I think they are deliberately keeping the price low in gulf countries to catch up the market. Nice.
Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-TL10 using Tapatalk
Are there any sites that you know of that sell at that price and ship internationally?
unfortunately not.. they only ship locally or regionally (within the middle east)
hello i am travelling next week to the UAE and i plan to buy the huawei ascend mate 7
do you recommend any nice smartphone stores with good prices in the UAE and specially Sharjah?
thank you
waiting for your reply
chako123 said:
hello i am travelling next week to the UAE and i plan to buy the huawei ascend mate 7
do you recommend any nice smartphone stores with good prices in the UAE and specially Sharjah?
thank you
waiting for your reply
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here but in spain . on ebay cheap
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HUAWEI-As...9?pt=ES_Teléfonos_móviles&hash=item4ae4e05f35
Could you pls tell where have you find the 3gb/32 gold edition with 400 euro? I have my cousin in doha Qatar and I'd like to order a device from there. Could you mention any shop?
Thanks in advance
I think Jarir is having a bookstore in Qatar. They are selling in KSA for around $500 the 3/32 GB version.
Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-TL10 using Tapatalk
are there any jarir bookstores in the UAE?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391000996221&alt=web
Ebay USA
chako123 said:
are there any jarir bookstores in the UAE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.jarirbookstore.com/html/showrooms-abudhabi.asp
Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-TL10 using Tapatalk
cheapest place to purchase Mate7
i bought this phone at coolicool . the customer service is really good
yeah there are a lot of shops that have it, I see that COOLICOOL actually also support paying with Paypal so that should be a good safe place to buy from in my opinion - and they ship internationally also.
Spotted cheap
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Huawei-As...31491952356?pt=DE_Handy_s&hash=item35e5fedee4
This is cheapest in UK with most trusted and reliable dealer with 2 year warranty
http://www.handtec.co.uk/huawei-ascend-mate-7-16gb-black.html
onlinejobwork said:
This is cheapest in UK with most trusted and reliable dealer with 2 year warranty
http://www.handtec.co.uk/huawei-ascend-mate-7-16gb-black.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man mone cost me 300 in begining of december .
So now this phone cheapest goes for 280?
Simona Simmy said:
Man mone cost me 300 in begining of december .
So now this phone cheapest goes for 280?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes around £280 delivered is what I paid.
Amazon.it now for GBP 259.35 delivered
Used but Unmarked, damn £20 cheaper than last week!
Simona Simmy said:
Man mone cost me 300 in begining of december .
So now this phone cheapest goes for 280?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am thinking of buying, where can I get £280 in UK? Can you give me link please. no ebay please
onlinejobwork said:
I am thinking of buying, where can I get £280 in UK? Can you give me link please. no ebay please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
£260 delivered to UK? (Used excellent condition, no marks at all from Amazon Italy, 30 days warranty.)
http://www.amazon.it/gp/offer-listi...b_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used&mv_color_name=1
Log in via your normal amazon account, use Chrome and translate page. Pick the best condition one on there
I got one from there for £280 which will be delivered tomorrow, I will share some pics to show you how good Amazon warehouse is
I ordered a speaker from there before (UK warehouse, Klipsch KMC3) RRP 250, I paid 80 and it came brand new!
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onlinejobwork said:
I am thinking of buying, where can I get £280 in UK? Can you give me link please. no ebay please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why no eaby ?.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00NEEXACE/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Where to buy in New York?

Hi, as an unhappy owner if the Nexus 5X, I am looking to buy a 6P. As an EU resident however, I won't put up with the ridiculous price over here. Luckily for me, I am going to NY next week, and if I manage to find one for the right price, I will definitely get one.
I want to ask some local people for some tips and places where to look for one. It also doesn't have to be new..even refurbished or second hand in great condition would do.
Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Best Buy in NY have it in stock. Check their website.f
Check bestbuy, create an account if it is in stock and you can just pick it up with your photo ID and CC if you're afraid it'll be out of stock by the time you get there.
---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------
Or B&H link
So 499 is the lowest as I can get? What about some places that sell used or refurbished ones?
Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Rash-182 said:
Hi, as an unhappy owner if the Nexus 5X, I am looking to buy a 6P. As an EU resident however, I won't put up with the ridiculous price over here. Luckily for me, I am going to NY next week, and if I manage to find one for the right price, I will definitely get one.
I want to ask some local people for some tips and places where to look for one. It also doesn't have to be new..even refurbished or second hand in great condition would do.
Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not New York, but they're refurbished.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...&LH_ItemCondition=2000&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
OP: I assume you know that the US version (1511) only supports certain bands of the international version (1512) that may limit the usage in EU and elsewhere. A reminder post, if nowt else.
Rash-182 said:
So 499 is the lowest as I can get? What about some places that sell used or refurbished ones?
Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as @thecarp1975 said or you can check swappa on this link for the 6p. If you have friends or trust someone, do the purchase now because it could take sometime for the shipping
kboya
Guy from a local forum has bought the 5X from US and all the bands are working..he also posted a picture of the box with all the EU bands listed..but I might double check on that one
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Big thanks to all the others who gave tips
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
I'm in NY and for the last 3 weeks they were on sale. Best buy had the 32 gb version for 450 and 64 gb got 500
A store known to most in the NY and NJ area called b & H photo had them even cheaper.... 32 gb for 425 and 64 gb for 475, no tax and included a $50 gift card to use at the b&h store now. Unfortunately, those sales ended a couple of days ago on March 27th. I was lucky enough to get the 64 gb for 475
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...gift-card-with-no-sales-tax-outside-new-york/
bustinstugots24 said:
I'm in NY and for the last 3 weeks they were on sale. Best buy had the 32 gb version for 450 and 64 gb got 500
A store known to most in the NY and NJ area called b & H photo had them even cheaper.... 32 gb for 425 and 64 gb for 475, no tax and included a $50 gift card to use at the b&h store now. Unfortunately, those sales ended a couple of days ago on March 27th. I was lucky enough to get the 64 gb for 475
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...gift-card-with-no-sales-tax-outside-new-york/
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got one on order myself through the B&H website unfortunately when I placed mine they had just ran out of stock and the availability date keeps getting pushed back. Went from 3/29 to 4/8 now. Disappointed as I've had good luck with them in the past
crucialcolin said:
got one on order myself through the B&H website unfortunately when I placed mine they had just ran out of stock and the availability date keeps getting pushed back. Went from 3/29 to 4/8 now. Disappointed as I've had good luck with them in the past
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B&H is awesome. They recently had a sale where all 6P's were 50 cheaper plus a 50$ gift card... So everyone bought from them, that's why they are now ridiculously backordered.
mackster248 said:
B&H is awesome. They recently had a sale where all 6P's were 50 cheaper plus a 50$ gift card... So everyone bought from them, that's why they are now ridiculously backordered.
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yes probably going to somehow find some patience if I still want that discount :laugh: I'm sure it doesn't help that I got the 64 GB graphite which I see as potentially quite popular.
Looking forward to the upgrade from the original Nexus 5 to the 6p though. hopefully they won't make me wait too long

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