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So having battled and broke my last android unit I am looking at getting a new one asap.
Is there a unit that has decent sound quality, a bass sub out which is controllable and has a good graphic equaliser that has good clear unmuffled sound.
Thanks
This is exactly what I'm looking for. I did find a unit from ownice (wintech c200) running 4.4.2 that has the sub-woofer level control. Rk3188 chip.
It has the 2 knobs so I'm still in the market.
dazza007 said:
So having battled and broke my last android unit I am looking at getting a new one asap.
Is there a unit that has decent sound quality, a bass sub out which is controllable and has a good graphic equaliser that has good clear unmuffled sound.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, an MTCB Android head unit with @7floor's audio mod and equaliser will give you controllable sub out.
i wouldn't be surprised if the OP broke his unit by attempting the @7floor audio mod. It's how I broke mine too. I got a replacement that is better than the UQ-124 that it replaced in almost every way, but sadly still has the **** EQ & overall poor audio controls.
It's a 2nd gen AN-21U.
Maybe you shouldnt attempt that sort of thing then ? - others have been successful.
typos1 said:
Maybe you shouldnt attempt that sort of thing then ? - others have been successful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that. Though you tout your solution as though it viable, when in reality 1% or so of average users are capable of pulling it off. You shouldn't have to physically modify your HU to get good sound out of it.
Anyways, I think the best way is to just buy an external DSP. Even with 7floors audio mod, you are still using a cheap mainstream quality DSP built into the unit. A cheap alternative is miniDSP 2x4.
https://minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/2-x-in-4-x-out
an even better is the 6x8 as it is custom-built for car audio installations -
https://minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/c-dsp-6x8
Comes with downloadable plugins that allow you to set true crossovers, a 31band EQ, and comes with a high quality DSP on board. 7floor mod is good for those with a lot of technical skill that don't want to spend any extra money, but it still won't compare to the results you get from a external DSP.
Its not my mod, its @7floor's, you dont have to do the mod, but it improves the sound, its only a bit of soldering.
Hello, Im new here. Have always used an iphone. Only ever had a smasung s3 for a few months and was presently surprised by how solid android has become.
Anyways, I am looking to put a double din HU that runs android in my car.
I have ordered and used the Joying headunit 4.4.4 and it was great except for a few points:
1. Doesnt read address book from phone via bluetooth, needs to be imported.
2. SOUND QUALITY.... is not great. Not unbearable but barely passable in my opinion. And that is with the bc06 bluetooth. Running mp3s from the HU directly was slightly better/clearer. But I mostly stream audio from my phone, so I was not happy with the audio quality. I played around with the EQ and got it as good as I could and was slightly dissatisfied. Very boarderline.
3, UI is difficult to use in clutch situations. Would be nice if there was an app\overlay that would give me just a couple of high priority apps on screen within reach. Im sure this is easily done, didnt spend much time trying to get it to work.
I see that PUMPKIN is coming out with a unit that uses the parrot Bluetooth card that should bring the bluetooth audio quality up to max. Leaving the preamp to be the weakest link.
How are you guys dealing with this? And do you think I should spring for the pumpkin that will give me good BT quality? Also, are there any good EQ apps I could use to fine tune the audio to get maximize audio quality?
I really like the headunits that run android and cant live without all those other features but the audio quality really needs to be addressed.
Here is what Ive used:
(cant post links yet)
JY-UQ130 Joying
Here is what I want to buy now:
11-RQ0259E-US-A Pumpkin - only available on their site for now, will be on amazon soon.
Let me know what you think and if rooting it would help me get the most out out of the pre amp module.
I also have an external 2200 watt amp that I have in my car, so maybe I could tune that? IDK...
Thanks
glad i read this before buying the joying unit for my VW. looking for something with decent audio quality as well.
none exist at the moment, sadly. the only way to deal with the poor sound quality of these HUs is to buy an external DSP & use that to process your sound instead. minidsp 2x4 is the cheapest option to accomplish this ($100).
Hi,
I've just found MXTRON HU with dual ST sound processors.
Here is the website : www mxtron com
thekoter said:
Hi,
I've just found MXTRON HU with dual ST sound processors.
Here is the website : www mxtron com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still only dual core 8GB and only 4.2.2. The question is what do they mean with dual sound processors? Because the standard KLD has
dual sound processors too, sometimes with the brand ST.
---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------
[/COLOR]
sithcommander66 said:
I see that PUMPKIN is coming out with a unit that uses the parrot Bluetooth card that should bring the bluetooth audio quality up to max. Leaving the preamp to be the weakest link.
How are you guys dealing with this? And do you think I should spring for the pumpkin that will give me good BT quality? Also, are there any good EQ apps I could use to fine tune the audio to get maximize audio quality?
I really like the headunits that run android and cant live without all those other features but the audio quality really needs to be addressed.
Here is what Ive used:
(cant post links yet)
JY-UQ130 Joying
Here is what I want to buy now:
11-RQ0259E-US-A Pumpkin - only available on their site for now, will be on amazon soon.
Let me know what you think and if rooting it would help me get the most out out of the pre amp module.
I also have an external 2200 watt amp that I have in my car, so maybe I could tune that? IDK...
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've bought that unit and the sound quality is not okay even if they are using parrot. The two microphones
are still in parallel with lower sound quality. It's equal to my modified KLD. I.e. no improvement.
Hisma said:
none exist at the moment, sadly. the only way to deal with the poor sound quality of these HUs is to buy an external DSP & use that to process your sound instead. minidsp 2x4 is the cheapest option to accomplish this ($100).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the sound quality like if you use an external DSP? Is it as good as a good car audio system, or is it just smoothing over the cracks?
Yes the sound quality is not great, the rca pre outs are super weak, i tested mine the pumpkin from amazon and the voltage is on like .8 VAC rca i bought a line driver and that got my voltage up to 4.2 VAC rca which now my bass hits like before.
tangoman99 said:
What's the sound quality like if you use an external DSP? Is it as good as a good car audio system, or is it just smoothing over the cracks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I still feel like something is missing. It is absolutely better, but a DSP can't generate frequencies the sources doesn't produce. So I still would prefer a HU from someone known to produce high quality audio. But the android units have all the features I want so I just go with it.
Hisma said:
Personally I still feel like something is missing. It is absolutely better, but a DSP can't generate frequencies the sources doesn't produce. So I still would prefer a HU from someone known to produce high quality audio. But the android units have all the features I want so I just go with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Darn it - I wish I'd seen the stuff on here before buying it.
I really notice the frequency cut off - it's like listening to a really badly chopped low bitrate mp3.
tangoman99 said:
Darn it - I wish I'd seen the stuff on here before buying it.
I really notice the frequency cut off - it's like listening to a really badly chopped low bitrate mp3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep, huge disappointment to say the least. with the amount of time and energy I've put into my system, I'm still not completely happy w/ the results. I'm still learning how to tweak it, so I am certain I can get it to sound better, but I guarantee a high quality audio HU would not need near this much TLC.
Most probably don't notice missing frequencies, but a critical listener would. I own some high quality headphones, so I know what my music is supposed to sound like, and its just not there.
Think I'm going to add a line driver to my signal chain next, as the pre-outs are a measly 1V (and the DSP chops that signal up even more). Hope that does the trick.
Any point in doing 7floor's mod and using an external dsp or are they achieving the same end?
theoretically flattening the EQ should remove all custom audio processing, making 7floor's audio mod useless if you use an external DSP. However, b/c of how suspect these units handle audio, I wouldn't even be surprised if a supposedly flat EQ on a non-modded unit isn't really flat.
But yes, they are achieving the same end. Of course the internal DSP, even w/ the audio mod, would not be near as effective or give you as much control as an external DSP.
most of the time I read about sound problems, it is due to using Bluetooth. Is the sound still bad if you use Google Play on the actual head unit?
CadillacMike said:
most of the time I read about sound problems, it is due to using Bluetooth. Is the sound still bad if you use Google Play on the actual head unit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my question as well.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
It has taken me soundproofing, 3 sets of frontstage speakers (currently on my third set), an amplifier and a good subwoofer to improve sound quality in my car and a 7floor mod with these units. There is always something to improve in the sound in a car and I am leaning towards a decent headunit now. The radio tuner and sound quality on these units are its' weaknesses it is such shame as the OS is great.
I just read that with Android Lollipop it is possible to connect an external DAC via USB:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Android-5.0-Lollipop-supports-USB-DAC-audio-devices-we-go-ears-on_id66399
Would that be an option to have better audio quality? Is there a USB-DAC which would be suitable for a car?
Pumpking as a new one coming out next month, apparently with a new DSP with better audio quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poAkdg6Y3Wc
nice find checksum. if the price is right I may pick one of those up to replace my current unit. I wonder what the pre-out voltage will be.
Do these devices have the same sound card? I need some of the apk of one to control sub vol on the Joying
I think that sound quality playing mp3's on these units is excellent.
On my Joying unit, while the bluetooth is not the best in the world, if you are playing mp3's off an SD with MediaMonkey, or PowerAmp it is VERY good.
Is the audio on the Joying 2g 32gb units good? i hear things that the EQ is terrible and only 3 band. Is this true or was this for the old units? I am debating between this joying unit in 10.1 or the px5 cpu units that just came out. I am a audiophile and was worried about audio quality and subwoofer output control. anyone that has these units can shed some light would be appreciated
megapimp said:
Is the audio on the Joying 2g 32gb units good? i hear things that the EQ is terrible and only 3 band. Is this true or was this for the old units? I am debating between this joying unit in 10.1 or the px5 cpu units that just came out. I am a audiophile and was worried about audio quality and subwoofer output control. anyone that has these units can shed some light would be appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Out of the box the EQ is really bad on all of the Chinese units. I've changed quite a lot of models in the past 5 years and all of them were pretty bad.
For that we have Viper4Android, that is an AMAZING piece of software EQ (probably more like an sound processor).
The unit has a separate Sub output control but I haven't tested it... don't have a sub in my car.
BUT
If you are an audiophile these units are not for you. As an audiophile you must have pretty high standards and I am afraid the sound quality of the cheap Chinese units will let you down. Don't get me wrong, for an average user like me, streaming most of the music at 128/256/320 kbps and has medium quality speakers the sound is quite good (with Viper4Android enabled) but It's an only 300$ piece of hardware.... you simply can't ask for more.
Yes you can mod them and maybe change the amp mosfet but you will not get to have audiophile quality out of it. If you get an good external USB DAC and pair it with an real sound processor and maybe with an good amplifier... maybe then you can get closer to a real audiophile solution.
Again, if you are the kind of guy that his cheapest set of headphones are in the 1000$ range or your speakers at home are 3000$ worth.... look somewhere else.
Change the amp chip with a Pioneer chip and the unit is bad ass
edit said:
Out of the box the EQ is really bad on all of the Chinese units. I've changed quite a lot of models in the past 5 years and all of them were pretty bad.
For that we have Viper4Android, that is an AMAZING piece of software EQ (probably more like an sound processor).
The unit has a separate Sub output control but I haven't tested it... don't have a sub in my car.
BUT
If you are an audiophile these units are not for you. As an audiophile you must have pretty high standards and I am afraid the sound quality of the cheap Chinese units will let you down. Don't get me wrong, for an average user like me, streaming most of the music at 128/256/320 kbps and has medium quality speakers the sound is quite good (with Viper4Android enabled) but It's an only 300$ piece of hardware.... you simply can't ask for more.
Yes you can mod them and maybe change the amp mosfet but you will not get to have audiophile quality out of it. If you get an good external USB DAC and pair it with an real sound processor and maybe with an good amplifier... maybe then you can get closer to a real audiophile solution.
Again, if you are the kind of guy that his cheapest set of headphones are in the 1000$ range or your speakers at home are 3000$ worth.... look somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for this answer... Maybe I chose the wrong wording. I do love quality audio but im not anal about sound. as long as i can adjust the mids highs and lows and for it to sound great not cheap hallow sounding. im used to 7 to 10 bands will i be able to get a true adjustment out of these with 7 band software? Ive seen the Pioneer upgrade just now but thats only for power output. Im currently wanting to install in my escalade with the stock bose amplified speakers. I will be adding 2 sundown 8 inch subwoofers in a tuned box and want to have full media from the unit. spotify music apps loaded music and vids
megapimp said:
Thank you for this answer... Maybe I chose the wrong wording. I do love quality audio but im not anal about sound. as long as i can adjust the mids highs and lows and for it to sound great not cheap hallow sounding. im used to 7 to 10 bands will i be able to get a true adjustment out of these with 7 band software? Ive seen the Pioneer upgrade just now but thats only for power output. Im currently wanting to install in my escalade with the stock bose amplified speakers. I will be adding 2 sundown 8 inch subwoofers in a tuned box and want to have full media from the unit. spotify music apps loaded music and vids
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pioneer chip upgrade is not just for power but also sound quality.
megapimp said:
Thank you for this answer... Maybe I chose the wrong wording. I do love quality audio but im not anal about sound. as long as i can adjust the mids highs and lows and for it to sound great not cheap hallow sounding. im used to 7 to 10 bands will i be able to get a true adjustment out of these with 7 band software? Ive seen the Pioneer upgrade just now but thats only for power output. Im currently wanting to install in my escalade with the stock bose amplified speakers. I will be adding 2 sundown 8 inch subwoofers in a tuned box and want to have full media from the unit. spotify music apps loaded music and vids
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your best bet with these units, if you don't want to buy additional hardware (sound processor, an external am with a fancy EQ) is to root them and install Viper4Android (that requires root). Viper gives you the ability to have a pretty good EQ and many other features to tune the sound to your liking. Like I said in my previous post the onboard 3 way EQ is maybe decent for some but I found it pretty poor. Viper was the only piece of software that could bring back the good bass that I was having from the original headunit of my Ford that was made by Sony (this time) and it was made specifically to drive the speakers to their best. Viper has feature that limit the bass not to overwhelm the mids , very usefull.
The DAC in the Joying units is decent and probably closer to good (for my ears and my car speakers) but don't expect audiophile quality out of it by any means. If I had to grade the amp+dac from 1 to 10 I would chose an 6 maybe 6.50.... 7 it's a stretch but maybe with many Viper teaks....
Your Bose sound system is definitely more revealing in therms of sound quality than what speakers put Ford in my car so after installing the Joying you might be a bit disappointing that I've gave the HU an 7
Sound quality is a delicate matter, what is good for some is bad for others.
The cheapest hardware sound improvement would be to change the amp chip (into the Pioneer one), I haven't done it for 2 reasons so I can't comment much on how big the sound quality changes...First I NEED to know that I am buying an genuine chip and not an fake one, ebay is full of them and you simply can't detect a fake, or test it somehow after you received it. The original from Pioneer is around 40$ and the ebay ones are from 2.50$ to 15$ that doesn't inspire me confidence.... and second, even if I have the soldering skills I don't have the equipment needed and finding someone with the proper skills and tools it's a bit complicated.
If you want to control the sub from this unit I read that it's not an good option but you have to look into it:
Read here, these people wanted more sound quality from this unit and they started to mod it : https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...ts/joying-2gb-sofia-headunits-common-t3577217
edit said:
Your best bet with these units, if you don't want to buy additional hardware (sound processor, an external am with a fancy EQ) is to root them and install Viper4Android (that requires root). Viper gives you the ability to have a pretty good EQ and many other features to tune the sound to your liking. Like I said in my previous post the onboard 3 way EQ is maybe decent for some but I found it pretty poor. Viper was the only piece of software that could bring back the good bass that I was having from the original headunit of my Ford that was made by Sony (this time) and it was made specifically to drive the speakers to their best. Viper has feature that limit the bass not to overwhelm the mids , very usefull.
The DAC in the Joying units is decent and probably closer to good (for my ears and my car speakers) but don't expect audiophile quality out of it by any means. If I had to grade the amp+dac from 1 to 10 I would chose an 6 maybe 6.50.... 7 it's a stretch but maybe with many Viper teaks....
Your Bose sound system is definitely more revealing in therms of sound quality than what speakers put Ford in my car so after installing the Joying you might be a bit disappointing that I've gave the HU an 7
Sound quality is a delicate matter, what is good for some is bad for others.
The cheapest hardware sound improvement would be to change the amp chip (into the Pioneer one), I haven't done it for 2 reasons so I can't comment much on how big the sound quality changes...First I NEED to know that I am buying an genuine chip and not an fake one, ebay is full of them and you simply can't detect a fake, or test it somehow after you received it. The original from Pioneer is around 40$ and the ebay ones are from 2.50$ to 15$ that doesn't inspire me confidence.... and second, even if I have the soldering skills I don't have the equipment needed and finding someone with the proper skills and tools it's a bit complicated.
If you want to control the sub from this unit I read that it's not an good option but you have to look into it:
Read here, these people wanted more sound quality from this unit and they started to mod it : https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...ts/joying-2gb-sofia-headunits-common-t3577217
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very good thank you so much for the detailed response. I am more the able to swap the amp chip as i build stand alone ecus for vehicles. I am just turned off that these units wouldnt put good items inside. What headunit may come out in the future that everyone is keeping their eyes on? I see other units with 7 to 10 band EQ settings on them that are cheaper. are those fake eq settings or just the same ole bs?
megapimp said:
very good thank you so much for the detailed response. I am more the able to swap the amp chip as i build stand alone ecus for vehicles. I am just turned off that these units wouldnt put good items inside. What headunit may come out in the future that everyone is keeping their eyes on? I see other units with 7 to 10 band EQ settings on them that are cheaper. are those fake eq settings or just the same ole bs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are cheap units for the average Joe. They need to sell many so the low price point is the key...
When it comes to the EQ all I can say is that my previous unit (Witson) had out of the box a 7 band EQ that was absolutely rubbish... Unusable... Major crap. Viper saved the day. So even if the hardware is decent/good, they are dragging it down with poor software.
Joying with the Sofia implementation it's the best unit that I have used so far.... With each year new units pop up but not all are decent and just a few get a good support from xda.
megapimp said:
very good thank you so much for the detailed response. I am more the able to swap the amp chip as i build stand alone ecus for vehicles. I am just turned off that these units wouldnt put good items inside. What headunit may come out in the future that everyone is keeping their eyes on? I see other units with 7 to 10 band EQ settings on them that are cheaper. are those fake eq settings or just the same ole bs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
funny thing is, some units that have more than 3 band EQ sliders (like 7 or 10), do bundle them in 3s anyway...you move one and the ones left&right of it move as well go figure....
i guess if one's not happy with the default output, there are 3 choices right now: replace amp, viper mod and 7floor hardware mod+custom EQ sw. That's pretty much the pinnacle of what can be achieved, sound-wise, on chinese units atm. Unless someone really skilled tears the thing apart and re-does pretty much everything down the audio-chain.
....4th option being always of course: stay away from chinese android HUs and get something else....like a Pioneer AVIC-series. U do the math and pro/cons on that..
Hey guys,
I just finally installed Avin Avant4 unit in my E39 M5 and I am SO disappointed with the sound quality.
I got the dsp chip with it. (Yes, I've adjusted it, but its the unit components/build quality itself)
I previously had an old Pioneer Avic Z130BT - and have MB Quart components up front powered by JL 300/4 for cabin and a sub with JL 500/1. It sounded great.
I have a feeling the unit may be defective, but not sure if all of them are like this. In which case it is extremely disappointing.
I hear interference at random times, like when using the touchscreen. The carplay adapter sounds a TAD better, but not by much. The highs are just terrible and sound as if it is a poor connection (it is not).
Has anyone compared the PX6 with DSP chip to a Pioneer/Alpine/etc.
I love having the ibus functionality and carplay in one, but the audio quality is just terrible.
Perhaps there are some options? Otherwise I may have to resort to going back to regular double din, and I really don't want to because this one looks 100%.
bea5t said:
Has anyone compared the PX6 with DSP chip to a Pioneer/Alpine/etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not the px6 yet. I have it but haven't installed yet. My px5 is still in there though.
I had a pioneer NEX4200 in my jeep which got replaced with a Kenwood 9903s, which got replaced by my present px5.
If you're strictly concerned with audio quality (out of the box) then you should go to kenwood or pioneer (I don't like Alpine... you pay too much for the name) because the audio quality is most definitely better. Now I say "out of the box" because you CAN make the sound better in these Chinese machines with external amps and sound processors (which I have done).
But I choose to spend additional money making the sound better on my Dasaita px5 because these machines offer FAR more flexibility than my pioneer or kenwood ever could be.
Hopefully I will have my px6 installed next week for further comparison but I can already pretty much tell you that my pioneer nex4200 or Kenwood will sound better. It's tough to beat the sound quality of today's traditional hardware based head units with a Chinese android unit.
I have JL 300/4 going to MB Quart (old school made in germany) components. The minute I plugged in the android and turned on some audio, even before touching ANY settings, I was already disappointed.
The "alive" sound is just gone. You can tweak the highs and EQ and loudness all you want, but its still polishing a turd.
Wondering if anyone has connected a proper DAC to these (but how would it work with front/rear/sub outputs?)
bea5t said:
I have JL 300/4 going to MB Quart (old school made in germany) components. The minute I plugged in the android and turned on some audio, even before touching ANY settings, I was already disappointed.
The "alive" sound is just gone. You can tweak the highs and EQ and loudness all you want, but its still polishing a turd.
Wondering if anyone has connected a proper DAC to these (but how would it work with front/rear/sub outputs?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.... I was pretty disappointed in the beginning too. The sound was nowhere near as good as my kenwood, but I was determined to make it fly because of everything else these things can do.
I don't use the onboard amp. I use the front and rear rca outputs to a crossover which CREATES a new subwoofer channel which all (front, rear and new sub) is then fed to a signal processor (Axxess AX-DSP-X Digital Signal Processor) and then on to front, rear, and subwoofer amps.
I still get the odd screen noise to the speakers every so often but it's livable. The sound however is back up to par with my Kenwood.
I think that the big difference between the cheap chinese units and the more expensive ones is not so much the sound output. It's pretty much the same shallow audio across all these units. The difference is in how much processor and screen noise gets passed on to the audio. Some of these machines are just shielded better, with better pc board layouts so that noisy chips aren't near the audio preamps.
I would just absolutely love it if pioneer or kenwood built one of these android machines. It would be a killer machine. Pioneer/Kenwood audio quality mixed with the power of what is essentially an android tablet.
I pulled it out and put a new pioneer instead. The android is just not reliable and has its own quirks. No matter what the audio quality was just not there. Pioneer is levels beyond.
I put a android media player and running ibusapp off that with hdmi into the pioneer - anyone know how I can power the android media player using 12V constant, + ACC? - having the accessory wire send a signal to turn on/off so the android doesnt lose time settings?
Hello,
I have bought a 2 DIN Android 10 head unit for my car.
I found the only product matching with my car (alfa romeo 147) to fit properly.
But I am very disappointed about what is inside.
First specifications do not match (4 gb RAM instead of 8, 800x480 instead of 1024x600...)
In addition sound is not very good.
I wonder if it is possible to change parts like
- Screen , to increase resolution
- Sound board , to have a better audio quality
- Increase RAM ...
Is there standard connection, like in a PC, allowing us to change some elements ?
Thank you for your responses
theog11 said:
Hello,
I wonder if it is possible to change parts like
- Screen , to increase resolution
- Sound board , to have a better audio quality
- Increase RAM ...
Is there standard connection, like in a PC, allowing us to change some elements ?
Thank you for your responses
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Screen size has nothing to do with screen resolution: GIYF ...
Sound quality can get increased with an EQUALIZER app: GIYF ...
RAM may get increased physically, but will not be detected. You may try to install a SWAP memory ( virtual RAM ): GIYF ...
To manage Android OS from PC via USB cable you use ADB.
Thank you for your re
jwoegerbauer said:
Screen size has nothing to do with screen resolution: GIYF ...
Sound quality can get increased with an EQUALIZER app: GIYF ...
RAM may get increased physically, but will not be detected. You may try to install a SWAP memory ( virtual RAM ): GIYF ...
To manage Android OS from PC via USB cable you use ADB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For screen resolution, with a higher resolution you are able display more information with a same size screen. If you don't believe me try to connect your PC to your TV and play with resolution.
Sound quality is not really increased by the equalizer APP. You can tune a little but if your device is poor, you will never have good sound
It sounds like there is enough wrong here so that it's not worth it. Just a new higher res screen will set you back a pretty penny.
Either live with it or return/sell it and start over with a better known brand.
Sorry but all incorrect answers. Every single aspect of the unit can be improved. Especially sound quality.
It will require hardware modding as well as software modding but it is more than doable.
We run a charity project where I bring these £100 units to a level of products costing many thousands, only spending £50-£100 in materials.
One of the mods we do is to replace the need of external amplifier and DSP altogether.
You can check out extrememod.co.uk for more ideas, particularly the FAQ section.
iceblue1980 said:
Sorry but all incorrect answers. Every single aspect of the unit can be improved. Especially sound quality.
It will require hardware modding as well as software modding but it is more than doable.
We run a charity project where I bring these £100 units to a level of products costing many thousands, only spending £50-£100 in materials.
One of the mods we do is to replace the need of external amplifier and DSP altogether.
You can check out extrememod.co.uk for more ideas, particularly the FAQ section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charity is lovely I respect that. But do you seriously believe that your mod can truly replace the need for a power amp? If so then please tell how you mod the headunits output to deliver 500+ watts of clean RMS power required to power a sub+woofers+midbass+tweeters with sufficient headroom in a noisy environment like a car?
And regarding the DSP. Sure any DSP with time alignment is better than no TA but a nice dedicated DSP offers so many features that no mods will bring these headunits.
So please stop spreading false claims about 100$ mod magically transforming these headunits into sql competition winning material.
Ok I checked Extrememod.co.uk and that page was just about as untruthful as Chinese sellers on AliExpress. Quote: "These units come equipped with a powerful built-in audio amplifier"
Very powerful indeed -and miraculously only require a tiny winy power cable AND runs fine with a 10A fuse. A truly Nobel prize worthy achievement!
Allan_Hun said:
Charity is lovely I respect that. But do you seriously believe that your mod can truly replace the need for a power amp? If so then please tell how you mod the headunits output to deliver 500+ watts of clean RMS power required to power a sub+woofers+midbass+tweeters with sufficient headroom in a noisy environment like a car?
And regarding the DSP. Sure any DSP with time alignment is better than no TA but a nice dedicated DSP offers so many features that no mods will bring these headunits.
So please stop spreading false claims about 100$ mod magically transforming these headunits into sql competition winning material.
Ok I checked Extrememod.co.uk and that page was just about as untruthful as Chinese sellers on AliExpress. Quote: "These units come equipped with a powerful built-in audio amplifier"
Very powerful indeed -and miraculously only require a tiny winy power cable AND runs fine with a 10A fuse. A truly Nobel prize worthy achievement!
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All great points. Now let me respond to some of them.
1. I believe you missed the core point of it all - we build Android head units for audiophiles on budget. This essentially means all the people looking to have great sound at the smallest cost while keeping full functionality of an Android device.
2. Your comment on "500W RMS" and "tiny tiny cables" is irrelevant. Why? Because your sound will only be as good as the source. An Android Head unit will often output very poor sound from pre-outs. We therefore maximise the internal amp and surrounding electronics, advising folks not to use external amps and DSP's. Most of the cars we build for use 18 AWG speaker cables already, same as in the ISO harness. We do however use 16 AWG power cables with proper grounding.
3. I'm sorry but I'm yet to see a DSP processor that offers what Viper4Android does. Especially within feasible cost range.
4. The units we build have their TDA7850 amps running at 18v, not 12v - obviously with bespoke cooling to support the high temps. In most cars, true 200W output will be more than enough.
To summarize, we started this project to build all-in-one Android Head Units that offer everything an audiophile would want without spending thousands of dollars, while keeping all that an Android can offer. We had a good look around and found absolutely nothing in the Android Head unit space that did not require the user to sacrifice at least something, whether it's the sound, the handsfree quality, the UI, Android apps limitations etc.
The real reason for why no manufacturer is building units such as this - is the cost. In mass-production, it would simply be too expensive. Luckily we can work with what we've got and replace components with much better ones, hardware and software alike.
We are also looking into optimizing these units specifically for people that want to use external amps and DSP's. This too requires quite a lot of modding to ensure the pre-outs deliver as high quality output as possible. We'll be looking for audio pro's to test them and give us feedback. You can apply on our site if you're interested and located near London, UK.
iceblue1980 said:
Sorry but all incorrect answers. Every single aspect of the unit can be improved. Especially sound quality.
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I didn't say it can't be done. I said it's not worth it. There is a difference.
If you want to mod and improve, then start with a good quality base. This head unit is not that.
iceblue1980 said:
4. The units we build have their TDA7850 amps running at 18v, not 12v - obviously with bespoke cooling to support the high temps. In most cars, true 200W output will be more than enough.
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Replacing (and using) internal amps is a useless and fruitless endeavor. There are far more options available in external amps, quality and ease of installing when going with external amps. Indeed, if you are on a budget then external amps (and dsp's if need be) are the better way to go because you can upgrade a bit at a time.
Does an external amp increase audio quality ?
I think if source is not very good, external amp will just allow more power output, but what about quality ?
How to check if head unit has DSP ? Mine is supposed to have but I want to verify
theog11 said:
Does an external amp increase audio quality ?
I think if source is not very good, external amp will just allow more power output, but what about quality ?
How to check if head unit has DSP ? Mine is supposed to have but I want to verify
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An internal amp does not increase audio quality any more or less than an external amp does, so it is a moot and irrelevant question. If you have bad audio quality going into an internal amp, then the outcome is exactly the same. Regardless of what amp you use (internal or external), if the audio quality is bad going into the amp, then it will be bad going out of the amp too.
What an external connection with external amps does is allow more flexibility in the quality of amps used, the number of amps used, and the power involved. You can also add external dsp's if you wish.
Bob_Sanders said:
I didn't say it can't be done. I said it's not worth it. There is a difference.
If you want to mod and improve, then start with a good quality base. This head unit is not that.
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It is a charity project so Besides, we're focusing on 8227L units primarily. They are cheap and pretty much made for low-cost modding with more than respectable outcomes.
Bob_Sanders said:
Replacing (and using) internal amps is a useless and fruitless endeavor. There are far more options available in external amps, quality and ease of installing when going with external amps. Indeed, if you are on a budget then external amps (and dsp's if need be) are the better way to go because you can upgrade a bit at a time.
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But then I would go back to the point 1 I made - the bottleneck is the Android Head unit itself. If it doesn't deliver good output at pre-outs, no point in investing in external gear. Today you pretty much forced to choose - either good sound or an Android Head Unit. This is what we're trying to remedy, while keeping the cost in the lower brackets.
iceblue1980 said:
But then I would go back to the point 1 I made - the bottleneck is the Android Head unit itself.
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That has nothing to do with the choice of amp (internal or external) you use. The output of the RCA's is the same input for either amp. It is simply delivered internally to the internal amp and through RCA's for the external. If it is not clean audio from the RCA's then it also won't be for the internal amp. The only difference is that the internal amp is cheap and under powered so it can't emphasize the crappy audio as well as a cleaner and more powerful external amp can
Internal amps are crappy.... always have been... and with the cheap price of external amps these days and the large selection of them, it doesn't make sense to upgrade an internal
And with that, I go back to my original point.... modding and improving a cheap head unit is not worth it. You are better off starting with a good quality base model first.
This particular head unit is clearly a sub par unit with bad sound quality, low screen resolution, and insufficient memory, so all of that would have to be fixed first before anybody worries about an output amp to begin with.
The long and short of it is that the OP is going to be spending probably twice as much as the head unit is worth trying to make it into what he wants.
Bob_Sanders said:
That has nothing to do with the choice of amp (internal or external) you use. The output of the RCA's is the same input for either amp. It is simply delivered internally to the internal amp and through RCA's for the external. If it is not clean audio from the RCA's then it also won't be for the internal amp. The only difference is that the internal amp is cheap and under powered so it can't emphasize the crappy audio as well as a cleaner and more powerful external amp can
Internal amps are crappy.... always have been... and with the cheap price of external amps these days and the large selection of them, it doesn't make sense to upgrade an internal...
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I have to respectfully disagree. In these units, there is little to no correlation of the sound output between the internal amp and RCA's. This is why there are 2 different directions that modders take - one focused on the internal amp and one focused on the RCA output. Both mods cannot exist in the same unit by the way.
The RCA's have poor electronics behind them as well as poor shielding, resulting in the equally poor audio output. What you will be amplifying is just that - poor sound.
Bob_Sanders said:
And with that, I go back to my original point.... modding and improving a cheap head unit is not worth it. You are better off starting with a good quality base model first.
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I would agree to a point but many "hi-end" android head units are very difficult if not impossible to mod and it's also a matter of price. As this is a charity project, we're looking to keep the cost low while maximizing the value.
Bob_Sanders said:
This particular head unit is clearly a sub par unit with bad sound quality, low screen resolution, and insufficient memory, so all of that would have to be fixed first before anybody worries about an output amp to begin with.
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Yes many of these units are honestly not worth touching. As for CPU and memory - the use of these can be considerably optimized with Android programming skills, making them very much usable in day-to-day scenarios. As an example, you can check out the video in my signature and fast forward to where we show the Google Maps loading times on a 1Gb RAM unit.
Bob_Sanders said:
The long and short of it is that the OP is going to be spending probably twice as much as the head unit is worth trying to make it into what he wants.
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This is probably true. But then again, he as many others are always faced with a choice of what to prioritize: sound quality or a fully-fledged Android onboard computer.
Finally, I think anyone can improve their head units if they would really want to as there is so much information out there and guides. It would cost time but not much money. This is, I guess, why XDA also exists - for everyone to share knowledge
iceblue1980 said:
I have to respectfully disagree. In these units, there is little to no correlation of the sound output between the internal amp and RCA's. This is why there are 2 different directions that modders take - one focused on the internal amp and one focused on the RCA output. Both mods cannot exist in the same unit by the way.
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Yes there are.
The output from the fm chip (just for example) does not have separate outputs for rca and internal. It has only one (L&R) output set which is fed to an input selector which is in turn fed to a preamp. That preamp output is fed to the internal amp with what basically amounts to a tap off to the rca's. Aside from a few decoupling caps and such, along with a filter and output set for the sub, the RCA signal is virtually the same as what is being fed to the internal amps.
"poor shielding" amounts to a crappy set of rca output cables which can be replaced for a couple of bucks if you have shielding issues.
BOTH the internal and external amps get their signal from the same preamp and filter stages. Not only that, but the internal amp also gets its power from the same internal power supply as the rest of the head unit does, so if that power supply is not clean then it affects the internal amp too. Drive any power supply too hard then you start getting dirty sound. An external amp has it's own dedicated power supply, which means you don't have to drive the head unit's power supply very hard at any time. That leads to a cooler running head unit with lots of power to run its other components.
Internal amps are IMO... a crappy way to go.
I would agree to a point but many "hi-end" android head units are very difficult if not impossible to mod and it's also a matter of price. As this is a charity project, we're looking to keep the cost low while maximizing the value.
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Well... you mention "charity" not the OP, but the point is that the cost is NOT low when you start talking about having to purchase higher res screens (complete with driver), new memory and dsp boards. Your pretty much replacing more than half of the head unit's essential electronics. Heck... if you're going to be replacing that much.... you may as well start from scratch and build one from the ground , up
Bob_Sanders said:
Yes there are.
The output from the fm chip (just for example) does not have separate outputs for rca and internal. It has only one (L&R) output set which is fed to an input selector which is in turn fed to a preamp. That preamp output is fed to the internal amp with what basically amounts to a tap off to the rca's. Aside from a few decoupling caps and such, along with a filter and output set for the sub, the RCA signal is virtually the same as what is being fed to the internal amps.
"poor shielding" amounts to a crappy set of rca output cables which can be replaced for a couple of bucks if you have shielding issues.
BOTH the internal and external amps get their signal from the same preamp and filter stages. Not only that, but the internal amp also gets its power from the same internal power supply as the rest of the head unit does, so if that power supply is not clean then it affects the internal amp too. Drive any power supply too hard then you start getting dirty sound. An external amp has it's own dedicated power supply, which means you don't have to drive the head unit's power supply very hard at any time. That leads to a cooler running head unit with lots of power to run its other components.
Internal amps are IMO... a crappy way to go.
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Ah, I see now what you're trying to say. Okay so yes, you are correct on a number of points, however, as I mentioned before - we are driving the internal amp with a separate 18v 15A power supply (we only need 10A but there you go). A power supply that is custom-built using a step-up DC-DC converter with temperature-controlled cooling (at 8A+ it starts to get pretty warm).
The internal amp is completely disconnected from the internal 12V power, while still being connected to everything else. We improved the audio output quality by quite a staggering 40%.
Internal amps will never be able to compete with external equivalents, but when you put it in a perspective of an Android - it's a totally different comparison. Like comparing cars with trains. Sure, both are means of transportations but quite different in themselves.
By the way, the "RCA" mod actually removes the internal amp altogether from the circuit.
I will agree that 200 true Watts is probably enough for most people -If they also have a powered sub. Check the recommend amps for popular subs like alpine and JL. Deep bass require some muscle. And 200W feeding a sub, two (mid)woofers + two tweeters ain't much. Heck my woofers sounds notably better @2x150W compared with 2x75W.
Most modern car subs are mostly optimized for low frequency production in small boxes. This is achieved with a stiff suspension and big motors. -Not a very efficient in therms of db/W.
I also think your definition of true watts is quite different than mine...
In my book true watts means continuous 20-20khz 1% THD.
I just checked the 7850 specs, and it is actually quite impressive for it's size. With 18V input it delivers almost 90W. BUT at 30W the distortions increases and at 40W it skyrockets!
Regardless of budget I don't think many "audiophiles" would appreciate >10% distortion...
For a budget android car hifi experience I believe HU, USB DAC + external amp would be the way to go.
IMHO Viper is by far the best sound mod app but it can't replace a DAC. Does Viper have auto tune? Automatic input selection ? Autoand programable turn on/off?Hardware volume control? Ground isolation? Logic 7 centerchannel? Fully costume covers?
Viper and a standalone DSP is two rather different things.
My DSP also have high level inputs so maybe I should try if the 7850 output vs the preamp RCAs. You do seem to know the HU's internals quite well. Can you explain why internal amp sounds better compared to the preamp output?
Isn't the 7850 recurving same signal as the preamp plugs?
Allan_Hun said:
I will agree that 200 true Watts is probably enough for most people -If they also have a powered sub. Check the recommend amps for popular subs like alpine and JL. Deep bass require some muscle. And 200W feeding a sub, two (mid)woofers + two tweeters ain't much. Heck my woofers sounds notably better @2x150W compared with 2x75W.
Most modern car subs are mostly optimized for low frequency production in small boxes. This is achieved with a stiff suspension and big motors. -Not a very efficient in therms of db/W.
I also think your definition of true watts is quite different than mine...
In my book true watts means continuous 20-20khz 1% THD.
I just checked the 7850 specs, and it is actually quite impressive for it's size. With 18V input it delivers almost 90W. BUT at 30W the distortions increases and at 40W it skyrockets!
Regardless of budget I don't think many "audiophiles" would appreciate >10% distortion...
For a budget android car hifi experience I believe HU, USB DAC + external amp would be the way to go.
IMHO Viper is by far the best sound mod app but it can't replace a DAC. Does Viper have auto tune? Automatic input selection ? Autoand programable turn on/off?Hardware volume control? Ground isolation? Logic 7 centerchannel? Fully costume covers?
Viper and a standalone DSP is two rather different things.
My DSP also have high level inputs so maybe I should try if the 7850 output vs the preamp RCAs. You do seem to know the HU's internals quite well. Can you explain why internal amp sounds better compared to the preamp output?
Isn't the 7850 recurving same signal as the preamp plugs?
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You're absolutely correct. While this unit will drive some of the passive subs (thanks to all the additional cooling), we do highly recommend using an active subwoofer for the best sound experience. Even an underseat sub like Kenwood KSC-SW11will make enough of an impact as many people don't want to use the extra space for a sub.
You're absolutely correct on the distortion part. I haven't experienced it driving 4 Ohm speakers in various cars but all of them had active subs.
On USB DACs - totally correct. However these head units have fairly unreliable internal electronics to effectively drive them (surprise surprise). Hardware modding is required and we haven't been able to get any good results. The internal hardware is too weak to drive DAC's. Drivers are unstable as well. External DAC's was one of the first things we tried.
As for internal vs RCA output - what you're mentioning is correct when it comes to most devices out there. This is how it should be. On these head units however, it's a bit of a mess. In fact, we tried to "rewire" it internally but it resulted in an even worse output from RCA's.
The internal electronics are many times completely removed and we install an internal preamp microchip with separate power supply (step down DC-DC converter) and redo the capacitance as well as internal shielding.
We haven't had any requests yet for RCA-only projects so it's still very much an area of testing and development for us.
My DSP is connected through usb and it works fine with USB audio player pro. For anything else I use the optical output. Do you think the speaker output would improve the soundquality compared to the optical output?
Also tried a I had a 8227L I also tried a E1DA 9038D DAC and it worked except I could not control the volume, so it would play at full volume. So I guess a DAC with a volume dial could work.
Your statement about only needing 10A at 18V don't match your claim about 200 true watts. The 7850 is class AB so efficiency is probably about 75% . 10x18x0.75=135W...