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The first Nexus 4 I received was a rev10 I got that shipped the third week after release. It has a perfect calibration with beautiful popping whites and dark blacks. Unfortunately, I had the issue where a portion of the screen would tint yellow (about the size of my thumbprint) after it heated up.
This annoyed me so I got an RMA phone and it turned out that the entire scree was an ugly yellow even without heat. This was shipped to me from jan 1-7 I forget the actual date but it was recent. It also had a sluggish vibration issue that annoyed me. I sent it back and they sent me another RMA phone that arrived on the 14th and what do you know, it also has a yellow tint to the screen. The colors are much darker compared to my original screen as well and I tried color calibration apps but they just don't look as good as the original. This phone is a rev11 if that matters.
Do all the newly made phones have color issues? Or are there well calibrated ones out there and I should keep on RMAing?
The new screens just don't look as good and are really ugly. Someone let me know if they have a good screen
If you figured that out from an extensive poll of people then I'd understand that conclusion but from 2 RMA that's just plain stupid!
My screen is white as can be, compared to One X its looks insanely good, the One X colors pop and are really vibrant though
slashei2 said:
the first nexus 4 i received was a rev10 i got that shipped the third week after release. It has a perfect calibration with beautiful popping whites and dark blacks. Unfortunately, i had the issue where a portion of the screen would tint yellow (about the size of my thumbprint) after it heated up.
This annoyed me so i got an rma phone and it turned out that the entire scree was an ugly yellow even without heat. This was shipped to me from jan 1-7 i forget the actual date but it was recent. It also had a sluggish vibration issue that annoyed me. I sent it back and they sent me another rma phone that arrived on the 14th and what do you know, it also has a yellow tint to the screen. The colors are much darker compared to my original screen as well and i tried color calibration apps but they just don't look as good as the original. This phone is a rev11 if that matters.
Do all the newly made phones have color issues? Or are there well calibrated ones out there and i should keep on rmaing?
The new screens just don't look as good and are really ugly. Someone let me know if they have a good screen
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Click to collapse
o am jee :d
SlasheI2 said:
Do all the newly made phones have color issues? Or are there well calibrated ones out there and I should keep on RMAing?
The new screens just don't look as good and are really ugly. Someone let me know if they have a good screen
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Click to collapse
My screen is perfect. You should maybe change the light bulbs in your place..
I have a revision 11 and a revision 10 which is going back due to speaker crackle. The screen on my revision 11 looks cooler but I certainly wouldn't have described either as being yellow.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
It goes away after a couple days...
As ctowne said, it goes away after a while. It's the glue that is used to laminate the glass and display.
Mine was pretty yellow at the start, however a couple of weeks on, and it's absolutely fine now.
Yes let us assume that the two phones we received is indicative of all phones. Makes sense.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
ctowne said:
It goes away after a couple days...
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lambomanx1 said:
As ctowne said, it goes away after a while. It's the glue that is used to laminate the glass and display.
Mine was pretty yellow at the start, however a couple of weeks on, and it's absolutely fine now.
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+1. Mine was yellow. After a few days, the screen is normal. Rev. 11.
lambomanx1 said:
As ctowne said, it goes away after a while. It's the glue that is used to laminate the glass and display.
Mine was pretty yellow at the start, however a couple of weeks on, and it's absolutely fine now.
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r5xscn said:
+1. Mine was yellow. After a few days, the screen is normal. Rev. 11.
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Click to collapse
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Yeah mine went away within 3 days at the very most. Also, you can adjust the screen settings with fauxclock if you really want to tweak it. As long as you have uniform yellow on the whole screen then don't worry about it. If certain spots are yellow after a few days then you might have a problem.
To those of you whose yellow tint went away, was the yellow tint uniform over the entire screen before it went away?
I just got my rev11 RMA, and I've only got a yellow tint on the bottom half of the screen. Should I expect it to go away over the next few days?
Also, just holding it side by side with my rev10, I have to say, in addition to the yellow tint, the rev11 just seems a little bit less clear and a little bit less sharp. Could be because it has the factory Google screen protector on it, I guess, whereas my rev10 has an SGP crystal clear on it.
On the plus side, the light bleed is improved on rev11. Nowhere near perfect, but signifciantly better than my rev10.
If the yellow tint goes away, I can live with the rev11. If it does not go away, it will be another RMA.
I got a Rev11 one, but never had a yellow screen from the start. I guess i've been a lucky one..
When I did my RMA, my rev_11 had a more yellow tint to it on whites.. I could really tell on apps like SMS...
colors look OK and I've gotten used to it..
My rev 11 doesn't have a yellow tint.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
phositadc said:
To those of you whose yellow tint went away, was the yellow tint uniform over the entire screen before it went away?
I just got my rev11 RMA, and I've only got a yellow tint on the bottom half of the screen. Should I expect it to go away over the next few days?
Also, just holding it side by side with my rev10, I have to say, in addition to the yellow tint, the rev11 just seems a little bit less clear and a little bit less sharp. Could be because it has the factory Google screen protector on it, I guess, whereas my rev10 has an SGP crystal clear on it.
On the plus side, the light bleed is improved on rev11. Nowhere near perfect, but signifciantly better than my rev10.
If the yellow tint goes away, I can live with the rev11. If it does not go away, it will be another RMA.
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Click to collapse
All 3 of my phones have had an uneven yellow tint. I RMA'd a rev10 first which had a brighter and cooler screen than the two replacements, but and uneven tint along the bottom 1/3rd. My rev11's, the one I sent back and the one I have now have a less bright display, and the one that went back had half of the screen horizontally yellow tinted, this one has yellow tint in the bottom left corner. It's the least tinted out of all of them.
FTR the uneven tint did NOT go away on my first two phones. While overall yellowness may clear up, the uneven factor doesn't change.
All 3 have had backlight bleed, was probably the least on my rev10, the first rev11 had it pretty bad along the taskbar and left/right hand sides. The second rev11 has it on the taskbar, but a little less, and the top left hand side.
The displays are just pretty crappy LG IPS panels, I'm certain most people will be on an RMA goose chase to get a phone without any uneven tinting/backlight bleeding. They'll exist, but how long do you want to ride your luck changing? I also think LG have changed the display between rev10 and rev11, as as I said both my rev11s are duller.
I got my third replacement N4 today (REV 11) and it (like the previous 2) has the yellow tint to the bottom of the screen and left edge in particular. Looks noticeably brighter the bottom half too (slight though). I'm really disappointed with this as I don't think it's looking like there will be any (or many) from this current batch that don't have this problem.
Does anyone know from a technical point of view why LCD panels are prone to this - why is it such a consistent problem in manufacturing? What exactly is the cause and why isn't it prevented? Any links? I've Googled it but no results...
Hey guys, I've recently noticed my nexus 6p has a very warm/yellow feel to it when compared to other devices such as my old HTC one m7!
I did some reading and apparently the nexus 5x has had a massive problem with "yellow screens".
Now am I just being naive as I've never had an AMOLED display before or is there likely to be something wrong?
Also, is it likely to be software related as its affected both the 5x and 6p?
Thanks
Mine does not have a yellow tint, not sure about if it is software.
I am coming from Oneplus One. After two days with 6p it does have yellow whites and a bit of pinkish hue when looking straight at it, when tilting it disappears (pink).
Looking back at Oneplus One feels too blue on the other hand
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA Free mobile app
Could it be the adaptive display?
I seem to recall the Nexus 6 having various screen issues upon release, too.
I switched adaptive display off and no change so I guess its not that. I think this is its "feature" and we have to live with it
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA Free mobile app
It's just the way the screen is calibrated. This will be adjustable later on in development I'm sure.
yea, its how the screen is calibrated. i compared it to my oneplus and the oneplus has a more white color, though a slight blueish tint. the nexus 6p has a more yellow screen.
Loose Part(s) When Tapping on Screen?
Yes. If they don't tweak it, then surely the community will.
On another hand, does anyone have a hollow/loose sound when tapping on the top right quarter of the screen? The sound reminds me of a loose ceramic buttons on a Nexus 5. It feels as if it's behind the screen just right of the speaker but sounds as if it's out the side.
Could be the adhesive for attaching the screen... If the yellow goes away after a day or two the adhesive needed to cure. It's happened with other devices
Put it side by side with my Nexus 6. Apparently the Nexus 6 screen is super yellow, never noticed. The 6P is MUCH whiter. Looks great.
Ask Google if you should return it. I've seen some complains around about yellowish screens. During the reviews one thing that was pointed out was precisely the opposite, with the 6P having a much cooler screen than the 5X, way more to the blue (cool) than to the warm (yellow) whites.
A bit strange you find the opposite.
Tung_meister said:
It's just the way the screen is calibrated. This will be adjustable later on in development I'm sure.
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So its not likely that I need to return the phone?
Alferboy said:
Ask Google if you should return it. I've seen some complains around about yellowish screens. During the reviews one thing that was pointed out was precisely the opposite, with the 6P having a much cooler screen than the 5X, way more to the blue (cool) than to the warm (yellow) whites.
A bit strange you find the opposite.
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I bought it from Carphonewarehouse (UK) so I may speak to them!
Pink not Yellow
Mine's got a pinkish hue at certain angles, but no yellow. Have come from an S4, which has a much whiter screen. Changing to sRGB gets rid of the pink hue but gives ghastly washed out colours instead. Guess we have to wait for some kind of tuning facility.
I'm very disappointed in the screen calibration. The 6p has the same pixel dimensions as the Nexus 6 with the 6p having slightly more pixels per inch. When I play a youtube video side by side the 6p looks terrible!!! Especially since during the keynote they said they worked really hard to get the colors right on the screen calibration. I hope this can be fixed with a software update. I might be returning mine.
A2Eric said:
I'm very disappointed in the screen calibration. The 6p has the same pixel dimensions as the Nexus 6 with the 6p having slightly more pixels per inch. When I play a youtube video side by side the 6p looks terrible!!! Especially since during the keynote they said they worked really hard to get the colors right on the screen calibration. I hope this can be fixed with a software update. I might be returning mine.
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It does seem like the calibration is off compared with my old HTC one m7. However I just compared my 6p to a mates nexus 6 screen and his is a lot more yellow than mine! So that's made me feel a bit better.
Hopefullythis can be fixed on the software side!
darfbozo said:
Mine's got a pinkish hue at certain angles, but no yellow. Have come from an S4, which has a much whiter screen. Changing to sRGB gets rid of the pink hue but gives ghastly washed out colours instead. Guess we have to wait for some kind of tuning facility.
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Click to collapse
I too have the pinkish hue but I have come use to this on amoled displays. Every single phone I've had with a amoled display has had a pinkish hue. So either I'm very unlucky and keep getting device after device with a bad screen, or I have eagle eyes and I can see it when others can't.. haha Some times people do not notice it. I think it really has to do with your eyes. If they are sensitive enough to see it. For example. I work for Swappa and me and my co-worker both had the international version of the Droid Turbo(The Moto Maxx) I had asked him if he noticed a pink hue, he said no he did not.. When we met in person I saw it right away. While it wasn't as pronounced as it was on my device, it was still there. He didn't see it.
Last night I was chatting with Derek Ross from phandroid and I showed him a pic of my 6p screen.. I saw pink..he said it looked fine to him.. lol I still might order a replacement just to see if the next one is like that.
graffixnyc said:
I too have the pinkish hue but I have come use to this on amoled displays. Every single phone I've had with a amoled display has had a pinkish hue. So either I'm very unlucky and keep getting device after device with a bad screen, or I have eagle eyes and I can see it when others can't.. haha Some times people do not notice it. I think it really has to do with your eyes. If they are sensitive enough to see it. For example. I work for Swappa and me and my co-worker both had the international version of the Droid Turbo(The Moto Maxx) I had asked him if he noticed a pink hue, he said no he did not.. When we met in person I saw it right away. While it wasn't as pronounced as it was on my device, it was still there. He didn't see it.
Last night I was chatting with Derek Ross from phandroid and I showed him a pic of my 6p screen.. I saw pink..he said it looked fine to him.. lol I still might order a replacement just to see if the next one is like that.
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I am using a screen filter app now and it seems to fix the screen so I'm pretty happy!
hltbest said:
I bought it from Carphonewarehouse (UK) so I may speak to them!
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Store bought or online?
I'd go there indeed. If they have stock they should replace it.
Saw below you tuned it with an app (which?) but that may not be a permanent solution.
Alferboy said:
Store bought or online?
I'd go there indeed. If they have stock they should replace it.
Saw below you tuned it with an app (which?) but that may not be a permanent solution.
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It's called MOBTI screen filter. I just put it to like 15-19% opacity and only had the blue halfway, a tiny bit or red, no green and it feels a lot better. Obvs its a temp solution, but it shows it can be fixed by software changes!
This is my first time with an AMOLED screen and I keep reading things about tints and such with the screen. I don't see any colored tints yet though I'm still waiting on my Sim card to really use it, just set it up ahead of time. I did notice though that when I compared it to my Nexus 5 the whites on my N6P look kinda off white. I'm not sure if that's normal or not?
Infamous512 said:
This is my first time with an AMOLED screen and I keep reading things about tints and such with the screen. I don't see any colored tints yet though I'm still waiting on my Sim card to really use it, just set it up ahead of time. I did notice though that when I compared it to my Nexus 5 the whites on my N6P look kinda off white. I'm not sure if that's normal or not?
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Click to collapse
If the tint of the screen is uneven or there is an excessive yellow tint then the screen is duff. Have a look in the "pink hue" thread in the Q&A section and there's pics of the uneven green/pink tints. If you don't see any and you like the screen then there's no issue. At the end of the day, it's your perspective of whether or not you have a problem.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
If it looks fine your screen is fine. Don't psych yourself out reading all those posts. Most of those people are crazy
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Infamous512 said:
This is my first time with an AMOLED screen and I keep reading things about tints and such with the screen. I don't see any colored tints yet though I'm still waiting on my Sim card to really use it, just set it up ahead of time. I did notice though that when I compared it to my Nexus 5 the whites on my N6P look kinda off white. I'm not sure if that's normal or not?
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Click to collapse
If you don't see anything wrong with it why are you going to go looking for something wrong?
Really. I have this ever so slight purplish/pinkish thing on the right that doesn't seem to be there all the time. Literally the only time I ever see it again is when I'm in these forums and someone reminds me to start looking for it with a post about it. Seriously.
Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P
If you can't see a problem with the screen by looking at it then you're fine. Don't go looking for issues with something because you'll psych yourself into thinking something is wrong when nothing is wrong. . I use to be the same way trust me. Just enjoy a great phone with a really good dev community..
I was just asking if the whites not looking pure white was normal. I said I don't see any colorish tint but I posted this cause I have no experience with AMOLED and didn't know if that was normal for this type of screen or not. I'm not looking for issues its just a question.
Is there an app to test for tint?
There's considerable variability in the white point of AMOLED displays due to the manufacturing process. Each one is a little different. Hey, it's "organic", right? Seems like they should be able to calibrate that at the factory, but apparently not. If you send it back and get another one, it might look whiter, or it might not. It should look reasonably uniform, and reasonably white. If you think it's unacceptable, send it back.
If you're worried that it might not be exactly 6000 Kelvins, then you should seek therapy.
Back in the Galaxy Nexus days, I saw one that was very pink, one very yellow, and one that was just right (mine!).
So I got a replacement cause I felt the screen had a tint.. Here is the comparison pics... The one on the left is the replacement. Think the difference is clear.
Just out of curiosity, how are the perfectionists claiming the screen should look? Mine is like the left image, and I'm happy with it.
TheReverend210 said:
Just out of curiosity, how are the perfectionists claiming the screen should look? Mine is like the left image, and I'm happy with it.
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Click to collapse
The screen should have an even tint all the way across it. Both of the screens in the pic change from a pink to a green/blue tint.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Rma
TheReverend210 said:
Just out of curiosity, how are the perfectionists claiming the screen should look? Mine is like the left image, and I'm happy with it.
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Click to collapse
As long as your happy, thats what matters.
I admit I have OCD when it comes to electronics. Got an RMA with a screen that works for me, so I am happily enjoying my phone. :victory:
Got get over it at some point.
Call me crazy but I can deal with the uneven tint. Hell, as I was taking the pics I didn't even notice it, although I probably will now lol but what bugged me and made me RMA was the solid film which looks like a yellowish tint that dulled whites and kinda the screen as a whole. I'm happy with the replacement even if its not perfect
Infamous512 said:
So I got a replacement cause I felt the screen had a tint.. Here is the comparison pics... The one on the left is the replacement. Think the difference is clear.
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Click to collapse
The replacement device on the left looks worse than the 'defective device' but they're both bad if I'm honest. RMA again buddy.
I just checked with my mate's 6P and mine and mine was brighter than his and he noticed this. His display was less warm too but a bit on the grey side. Both panels had an even color finish, unlike your samples mate.
Here's mine at lowest brightness. Not sure if its "perfect" or not but seems fine to me.
subhani said:
The replacement device on the left looks worse than the 'defective device' but they're both bad if I'm honest. RMA again buddy.
I just checked with my mate's 6P and mine and mine was brighter than his and he noticed this. His display was less warm too but a bit on the grey side. Both panels had an even color finish, unlike your samples mate.
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Click to collapse
Think I'm gonna keep the replacement actually.. Still got a year to get another replacement anyway..
Infamous512 said:
So I got a replacement cause I felt the screen had a tint.. Here is the comparison pics... The one on the left is the replacement. Think the difference is clear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the one on the right looks more even.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
when I look at my Nexus 6P directly it is white, but when tilting it has a blue tint.
Is this common in AMOLED displays or is it a defect.
Normal.
Yes that is normal. But if you had said it was blue directly looking at it and turned white at an angle, then it would be a defect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
markwebb said:
Yes that is normal. But if you had said it was blue directly looking at it and turned white at an angle, then it would be a defect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is very noticeable in white pages tilting it a little causes faint blue.
Compared the device to a nexus 6 mine has little blue when tilting a little like 10-15 degrees the nexus 6 doesn't why?
Very little viewing angle change turns whites into light blue
I have a nexus 6p and it drives me crazy with its color shifting, for a very little viewing angle change it turns all whites into blue and the more i turn it it goes into a rainbow effect. According to the people of internet an amoled panel should have great, nevertheless better viewing angles than a lcd panel. Well i have to say thats not the case now, i have a oneplusone to compare the two to eachother and the oneplusone has basicly no change of whites other than it gets a little bit darker but it does not rainbows out whatsoever. But on the other hand the nexus 6p for the smallest change from straight can change its white color. Very annoying.
Is there any solution for that, or it is what it is, and take it or leave it?
Anybody might has a solution for that?
It is what it is: third one arrived today and still not the best whites but it is the better of the three. The build date on mine is 11/3.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Honestly it doesn't bother me because I always look at directly. If you really want to go postal, tilt it almost at 180 degree then you'll start to see rainbows. What bugs me is that even on direct facing, mine doesn't have even whites. Bottom is more green and top is more pink. But that's another topic on this forum.
It shouldn't be normal. Viewing angles are supposed to improve as tech improves. You wouldn't accept viewing angles like this from an oled tv.
My Samsung galaxy s3 had amoled screen and didn't suffer from this. And that was when amoled tech was way behind what it should be now.
Is this really normal for all 6P users? I think my phone didn't have that blue tint until I accidentally turned on "Picture Mode: RGB" under developer options. Now it doesn't matter if I turn it off or on again. The blue tint is seen each time I don't look straight at the phone. I even did a hard reset just to be sure. Did that accident really break the viewing angle or is it just my imagination?
My older Nexus 5 doesn't have that issue. The blue tint isn't seen when looking from all angles.
Apparently that's normal for Amoled screens.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
I've gone through a few Nexus 6P devices and all have been very similar and all of them have this issue. I would agree that all AMOLEDs have a similar issue however the Nexus 6P has a very narrow band of vertical visibility. I am either very susceptible to this and/or I use my phone at a slight enough angle and it drives me nuts.
I'm coming from a Nexus 6 that I didn't have the same issue with. Sure, if you angle it at extreme angles it gets weird, but I'm okay with that.
I just got the new gold variant and it does this.. Been trying to get used to it but it's driving me insane. anytime I type or move the phone around when pressing things all the whites turn a blue tint..
Has anyone noticed any screen tint and/or discoloration? On a white background I've noticed that my screen has a slight pink tint on the bottom 20%. Dark backgrounds/images are unaffected.
Mine is uniform top to bottom... In dark lighting it does look a little holographic at times when I'm reading text on white background though.
I have a similar problem. Bought the US unlocked version and whites all over the screen have pink hue.
zerone55 said:
I have a similar problem. Bought the US unlocked version and whites all over the screen have pink hue.
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Click to collapse
I preordered one from Verizon and received it yesterday. I'm going to drop by my local Verizon store and see if their display(s) have the same issue.
Mine has a redish tint as well. If you go to Display you can change the color profile. Can't tell if it actually helps though.
RusTachio said:
Mine has a redish tint as well. If you go to Display you can change the color profile. Can't tell if it actually helps though.
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Click to collapse
I tried playing around with the color temperature settings. Making the color temperature cooler makes it better, but still visible.
You mean like temperature ? Mine's a tad cooler than what I'm used to but I'm leaving it default. No reddish tint here.
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
I've got no tint unless I look at the screen at extreme angles (like >70 degrees). Even then, it's only a very slight pinkish color.
When I first turned on the phone, the screen was slightly warmer than I prefer. I fixed this by knocking the screen temperature slider 2 ticks over to the right.
Mine is fine. I can see it at extreme angles as well but just barely and really wouldn't notice it without stumbling on this thread
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
Mine has it at the bottom too, I think it is slowly going away but maybe not. I will give it a few days and if it is not completely gone I will get it replaced. This time yesterday my lower left side was really pink and bad, now it is hard to tell most of the time. Some LCD screens take a few days to cure properly. They say the sun or UV lights will speed up this process. Lets keep updating each other on our progress.
My htc 10 has a yellowish screen tint at the bottom when looking directly at the phone. However, it seems to go away if i tilt the phone away.
Sent from my HTC 10 using XDA-Developers mobile app
I definitely noticed a pink tint on my verizon model
I think maybe the "hologram" effect I'm seeing is almost an interpolating of white and pink. It is similar to the "shiny" effect you see if you slightly tilt to the left or right, but less pronounced. I mostly only see it when I'm scrolling thru text. Definitely seems slightly pink on white.
If I look at my screen at the perpendicular it is noticeable. On a pure white background the top 80% is white but the bottom 20% gradually fades into a subtle pink hue at the bottom.
Sent from my SM-T320 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Yeah... I'm going to get this unit replaced. It's just too pink
Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
joshuadjohnson22 said:
Yeah... I'm going to get this unit replaced. It's just too pink
Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
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Let us know if the replacement unit is any different.
iamloco724 said:
Let us know if the replacement unit is any different.
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Will do, it will probably take a while for it to arrive since it just started shipping. Judging how most people have perfect units I don't foresee any issues
Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
I've seen a few people complain on Reddit as well. And someone said it's due to the glue and it should be gone with time, but I don't know if it's true. Was considering buying the 10 myself, but it's still not available in my country so I'll wait for you guys to say how it goes.
And I'm also sorry to hear every one of you has the issue ;//
Spot on! Finally someone who has the same issue as me (and clearly a lot of other people have it too)
And yes, mine does have that, very visible. I have no idea why they didn't pick an IPS or amoled display, the price is already pretty ridiculous.
Also tried the temperature changing function, doesn't do any thing. No software will fix this either, its just a hardware thing.
Peshyy said:
I've seen a few people complain on Reddit as well. And someone said it's due to the glue and it should be gone with time, but I don't know if it's true. Was considering buying the 10 myself, but it's still not available in my country so I'll wait for you guys to say how it goes.
And I'm also sorry to hear every one of you has the issue ;//
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Click to collapse
Can you post that reddit link?
---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
Quick question for those having this issue, if you pull up a plain white background like say one part of a display test do you see the discoloration on that?