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I'm using Modaco latest r8 rom with froyo 2.2. I noticed 2 things:
1. wave secure will not download my account data automatically when I factory reset. I need to register again which make it vulnerable. >> Anyone can disable wave secure
2. I don't even need to factory reset and I can reset wave secure by clearing the data in settings!!!!
I have tried in original HTC ROM 2.09(rooted) and flash in /system/app. same situation.
And I've tried that if wavesecure hasn't been register, you can't lock it from wavesecure.com or sms
I don't know if this is due to the nature of froyo or it's been like this since 2.1
wave secure is practically useless right now on my phone!!
Anyone can confirm this?
called them and they said they disabled the function for temp as they are working on some fix, it will be up again in 3 weeks as what they said
Yep, saw this on MoDaCo. Will not be renewing my WaveSecure subscription.
Lets be honest, it was a waste of money to begin with right.
This whole thing makes me wonder...can an Android phone REALLY be protected by these kind of softwares? Even assuming there are no security issues with the app..I mean,a lot of Android phones are rooted by their owners and all are rootable (?) without booting into the OS, so even if said apps are installed as system apps (just like wavesecure can be) what's preventing a "smart/geek" thief from pulling the battery, changing the simcard,(rooting a non-rooted phone), booting into recovery, mounting system and wreaking havoc through adb, including removing the security app?? Am i going on a wild goose chase or is all this sound??
MacCarron said:
This whole thing makes me wonder...can an Android phone REALLY be protected by these kind of softwares? Even assuming there are no security issues with the app..I mean,a lot of Android phones are rooted by their owners and all are rootable (?) without booting into the OS, so even if said apps are installed as system apps (just like wavesecure can be) what's preventing a "smart/geek" thief from pulling the battery, changing the simcard,(rooting a non-rooted phone), booting into recovery, mounting system and wreaking havoc through adb, including removing the security app?? Am i going on a wild goose chase or is all this sound??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but I don't think the average mugger/thief is that smart
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
So can I cancel my current subscription then and get a refund?
If you install wavesecure to /system/app and make sure its only there and not in /data/app as well then you should not have this problem.
Also wavesecure have gone through a rough month, got brought by Mcafee who in turn just got brought by Intel. They need to adjust to the new owners. They are (were) only a small company and lets face it their app is the best around by a long long way.
If you have any problems or suggestions on how to improve they usually listen (it was one of TeamVillain and a xda mod who suggested they make a update.zip for /system/app and a number of other improvements and they did it straight away).
Don't just say "oh no its not working" no app can protect your phone from the right people, if someone who knows all about rooting etc gets your phone then your screwed anwyay. But the average joe thug who steals your phone will get it, put in a new sim the alarm will go crazy then they panic, drop the phone and run. You can then use the tracker to find it, or give details to police.
Just put the apk in your rom next time before you flash in system/app and flash the rom. Restore data from a backup (but not the app) and you still get your market link too.
Lennyuk said:
If you install wavesecure to /system/app and make sure its only there and not in /data/app as well then you should not have this problem.
Also wavesecure have gone through a rough month, got brought by Mcafee who in turn just got brought by Intel. They need to adjust to the new owners. They are (were) only a small company and lets face it their app is the best around by a long long way.
If you have any problems or suggestions on how to improve they usually listen (it was one of TeamVillain and a xda mod who suggested they make a update.zip for /system/app and a number of other improvements and they did it straight away).
Don't just say "oh no its not working" no app can protect your phone from the right people, if someone who knows all about rooting etc gets your phone then your screwed anwyay. But the average joe thug who steals your phone will get it, put in a new sim the alarm will go crazy then they panic, drop the phone and run. You can then use the tracker to find it, or give details to police.
Just put the apk in your rom next time before you flash in system/app and flash the rom. Restore data from a backup (but not the app) and you still get your market link too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While i agree with you that a witch hunt isn't the proper response and that it is unlikely that the average thief will know his way around adb, i have personally tried to remove wavesecure from /system/app...it works...i did it without breaking a sweat. I intentionally triggered the lock by attempting to uninstall the uninstall-protection, pulled off the battery, booted in recovery and got rid of wavese cure with a single command. Reboot and presto! A free phone . So it is true that there is no full-proof way to be safeguarded, at least using this software, and in my humble opinion the guys over at wavesecure should clearly state so on their website. And they don't always listen..there is a long story of noisy silences concerning op's issue...omissions, censorship etc etc. I got a free lifetime subscription so i'm not particularly yelling at anyone, just making hypothetis, but wouldn't you be quite pissed off if someone stole your phone and rendered it's security software (for which you payed) impotent just because he knew "SU"?
MacCarron said:
While i agree with you that a witch hunt isn't the proper response and that it is unlikely that the average thief will know his way around adb, i have personally tried to remove wavesecure from /system/app...it works...i did it without breaking a sweat. I intentionally triggered the lock by attempting to uninstall the uninstall-protection, pulled off the battery, booted in recovery and got rid of wavese cure with a single command. Reboot and presto! A free phone . So it is true that there is no full-proof way to be safeguarded, at least using this software, and in my humble opinion the guys over at wavesecure should clearly state so on their website. And they don't always listen..there is a long story of noisy silences concerning op's issue...omissions, censorship etc etc. I got a free lifetime subscription so i'm not particularly yelling at anyone, just making hypothetis, but wouldn't you be quite pissed off if someone stole your phone and rendered it's security software (for which you payed) impotent just because he knew "SU"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is though, if they knew SU and other commands chances are they will get around any protection whatever it would be.
But Wavesecure offers you a way to track the phone, you can still contact your carrier and get them to IMEI blacklist it, then track the handset down via wavesecure.
hi - just check out secrep5265.blogspot.com - thats interesting information concerning your discussion.
So I'm new into the whole smartphone business.
One thing I've noticed is that you need to get lots of apps if you want any kind of good functionality of your mobile. I mean, I can't even record sound without an app, or record a phone conversation (even tho my 8 year old flip phone that that functionality innate)
In the Apps - All, there is even a innate app called "Sound Recorder" yet you cannot use it, and you have to download an app to record sound.
Anyway, now it comes to my concern. Almost all apps require some pretty ridiculous permissions such as:
read phone status, test access to protected storage or modify or delete contents of USB storage. And I'm talking about apps such as a game let's say.
I downloaded an app that shuts off music (I like to fall asleep to music) called Music Timer. It's permission is to "dirrectly call phone numbers"! Really? make phone calls? It even has approximate location.
Is it just something I must live with, sell every and any information I put on my phone to use most of the apps out there?
I even setup a corporate email (my school). Their app requires to: erase data, set password rules, etc. Erase data? ugh.
Maybe I'm missing something, since I'm all new to this smartphone business and never dealt with it.
Messerschmitt262 said:
So I'm new into the whole smartphone business.
One thing I've noticed is that you need to get lots of apps if you want any kind of good functionality of your mobile. I mean, I can't even record sound without an app, or record a phone conversation (even tho my 8 year old flip phone that that functionality innate)
In the Apps - All, there is even a innate app called "Sound Recorder" yet you cannot use it, and you have to download an app to record sound.
Anyway, now it comes to my concern. Almost all apps require some pretty ridiculous permissions such as:
read phone status, test access to protected storage or modify or delete contents of USB storage. And I'm talking about apps such as a game let's say.
I downloaded an app that shuts off music (I like to fall asleep to music) called Music Timer. It's permission is to "dirrectly call phone numbers"! Really? make phone calls? It even has approximate location.
Is it just something I must live with, sell every and any information I put on my phone to use most of the apps out there?
I even setup a corporate email (my school). Their app requires to: erase data, set password rules, etc. Erase data? ugh.
Maybe I'm missing something, since I'm all new to this smartphone business and never dealt with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) its a nexus device so its bloat free. Not everyone wants to record things so why force it onto everyone ? If you need said function you have the choice of adding said function
2) the sound recorder apk is used when you want to record an audio to an MMS.
3) not all apps require absurd permissions though I would agree that many do go to far in asking for permissions, BUT you always have the choice of not installing them.
Though some of the app permission names are written not as clear so it appears to be overreaching. Let's take a game. It asks to modify and delete USB storage. Normal as when you save a game its needs to be able to write to the phone. The other two you mentioned on not to educated on so I won't comment on yet
4) I looked into the music timer app you mentioned and I do agree that call phone number permission should not be their but again if you don't like it don't install it and try something else
5) your school email I don't see what the deal is? Permission to delete data, what do you think happens when you delete an email? It needs permission to delete it. Password rules is their to enforce your emails/schools password rules when using exchange
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
The email permissions can be due to it being a corporate mail server, so in order to prevent confidential information from being stolen, the admin can do things like remotely wipe the phone or disable the camera.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
So basically if I don't like 1 permission out of several for a specific app, then my only option is to not use the app at all and find an alternative, or if there is no alternative, live without it?
Messerschmitt262 said:
So I'm new into the whole smartphone business.
One thing I've noticed is that you need to get lots of apps if you want any kind of good functionality of your mobile. I mean, I can't even record sound without an app, or record a phone conversation (even tho my 8 year old flip phone that that functionality innate)
In the Apps - All, there is even a innate app called "Sound Recorder" yet you cannot use it, and you have to download an app to record sound.
Anyway, now it comes to my concern. Almost all apps require some pretty ridiculous permissions such as:
read phone status, test access to protected storage or modify or delete contents of USB storage. And I'm talking about apps such as a game let's say.
I downloaded an app that shuts off music (I like to fall asleep to music) called Music Timer. It's permission is to "dirrectly call phone numbers"! Really? make phone calls? It even has approximate location.
Is it just something I must live with, sell every and any information I put on my phone to use most of the apps out there?
I even setup a corporate email (my school). Their app requires to: erase data, set password rules, etc. Erase data? ugh.
Maybe I'm missing something, since I'm all new to this smartphone business and never dealt with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the permissions suck. Luckily the Android ecosystem has developed where there's enough competition that you can usually find what you want from a dev who doesn't want to hijack your phone. There are a lot of small guys out there, but they make some of the best apps. Low on permissions, holo-themed, great support. I usually find good devs on XDA with cool projects and donate as soon as I check out and like there app (GYT is the most recent example).
HOWEVER, if you are on an deodexed ROM (so, not stock), this works great: PDroid. Free, clean, doesn't crash apps (like Permissions Denied).
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).
(sorry about my chinglish )
So here's how:I locked my nexus10 and forgot the password, and I do not see the "Forgotten" button on the screen and also I didn't turn USB debugging mode on, so is there any possibility I can save my data instead of cleaning them up? Thank you (btw, I deleted the original recover files(because I once booted Ubuntu Touch on it) how can I reset it anyway?) Tanks a lot
EX_RIVER said:
(sorry about my chinglish )
So here's how:I locked my nexus10 and forgot the password, and I do not see the "Forgotten" button on the screen and also I didn't turn USB debugging mode on, so is there any possibility I can save my data instead of cleaning them up? Thank you (btw, I deleted the original recover files(because I once booted Ubuntu Touch on it) how can I reset it anyway?) Tanks a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have TWRP (not sure about Clockworkmod), "Factory Reset" will leave personal files on while clearing settings, custom apps, etc. FORTUNATELY, there is no way to bypass, other than resetting the device, the password for security reasons
dibblebill said:
If you have TWRP (not sure about Clockworkmod), "Factory Reset" will leave personal files on while clearing settings, custom apps, etc. FORTUNATELY, there is no way to bypass, other than resetting the device, the password for security reasons
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty sure that's not true, strictly speaking. Unless OP is talking about encryption, flashing a new ROM over top will preserve most user data saved on /sdcard (much to my annoyance).
Rirere said:
Pretty sure that's not true, strictly speaking. Unless OP is talking about encryption, flashing a new ROM over top will preserve most user data saved on /sdcard (much to my annoyance).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct. I forgot that circumstance. TWRP specifically excludes the data/media area
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Victory via XDA Developers App
dibblebill said:
You are correct. I forgot that circumstance. TWRP specifically excludes the data/media area
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Victory via XDA Developers App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean, it's useful because if you flub a flash you can use a backup, but these recoveries are not secure and aren't designed to be.
EX_RIVER said:
(sorry about my chinglish )
So here's how:I locked my nexus10 and forgot the password, and I do not see the "Forgotten" button on the screen and also I didn't turn USB debugging mode on, so is there any possibility I can save my data instead of cleaning them up? Thank you (btw, I deleted the original recover files(because I once booted Ubuntu Touch on it) how can I reset it anyway?) Tanks a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB debugging isn't required for ~all~ USB stuff, so you should try it anyways.
Then, as long as you still know your Google password you can install this to your Nexus, via the web (no log on to device actually needed):
http://www.androidlost.com/
I haven't actually tried or used that program, so cant say 100% it will work on N10 - but "in general" it seems like it should!
:good:
bigmatty said:
USB debugging isn't required for ~all~ USB stuff, so you should try it anyways.
Then, as long as you still know your Google password you can install this to your Nexus, via the web (no log on to device actually needed):
http://www.androidlost.com/
I haven't actually tried or used that program, so cant say 100% it will work on N10 - but "in general" it seems like it should!
:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if AndroidLost can unlock a device, and he doesn't seem to have lost it either. Unless an app had root/device admin access, I can't imagine that it would have the privileges necessary to remove authentication from a device (since that seems to be the pinnacle of bad security). Secure Settings + Tasker can do it, but you need to set that up beforehand.
Rirere said:
I don't know if AndroidLost can unlock a device, and he doesn't seem to have lost it either. Unless an app had root/device admin access, I can't imagine that it would have the privileges necessary to remove authentication from a device (since that seems to be the pinnacle of bad security). Secure Settings + Tasker can do it, but you need to set that up beforehand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It says it can:
Lock the phone
You can lock and unlock the phone from the web. If you forget your pincode you can simply overwrite it or remove it from the web
bigmatty said:
It says it can:
Lock the phone
You can lock and unlock the phone from the web. If you forget your pincode you can simply overwrite it or remove it from the web
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think this means what you think it means (and I could be wrong). Many security apps like avast! offer a similar "locking" functionality, where the normal lockscreen (whatever security it is) is covered by a second lockscreen, superimposed over all system UI elements to prevent access. This lockscreen is controlled by the app, but it will not affect any underlying security (basically, think of it as a replacement lockscreen for security reasons, not much unlike HoloLocker or Go Launcher's lockscreen).
Rirere said:
I don't think this means what you think it means (and I could be wrong). Many security apps like avast! offer a similar "locking" functionality, where the normal lockscreen (whatever security it is) is covered by a second lockscreen, superimposed over all system UI elements to prevent access. This lockscreen is controlled by the app, but it will not affect any underlying security (basically, think of it as a replacement lockscreen for security reasons, not much unlike HoloLocker or Go Launcher's lockscreen).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know man, and like I said I've never tried it. But its a super popular app, and has been featured in write ups. On their main page it states that text, as the fifth "main feature" which seems pretty straight forward to mean "the main lock screen"...
bigmatty said:
I don't know man, and like I said I've never tried it. But its a super popular app, and has been featured in write ups. On their main page it states that text, as the fifth "main feature" which seems pretty straight forward to mean "the main lock screen"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No good, sorry. You're right on one count-- I just tested it, and it does interact with the stock lockscreen. Unfortunately, as I said earlier, unless the app is granted root/device admin privileges, no Android app can change the stock lockscreen...and since OP can't get into his device, he can't grant it device admin.
Rirere said:
No good, sorry. You're right on one count-- I just tested it, and it does interact with the stock lockscreen. Unfortunately, as I said earlier, unless the app is granted root/device admin privileges, no Android app can change the stock lockscreen...and since OP can't get into his device, he can't grant it device admin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice on the testing! Too bad about the unlock. Perhaps he can still use it to offload his content though.
Did you try to "push" it to your device w/out installing it direct? I have wondered if I should pre-load this app on my devices, but "they" tout its remote-install-ablity, so I somewhat feel like I would not have to pre-install. (But then again, Im always apprehensive of claims that make things seem super easy.)
EDIT: Hmmm.... I see it requires "SMS" to install this on a device via Push - so I guess it NEEDS to be pre-loaded on a N10 if one wishes to use it to retrieve a lost N10, or even use it in this context! Now to decide if I install this or not...
bigmatty said:
Nice on the testing! Too bad about the unlock. Perhaps he can still use it to offload his content though.
Did you try to "push" it to your device w/out installing it direct? I have wondered if I should pre-load this app on my devices, but "they" tout its remote-install-ablity, so I somewhat feel like I would not have to pre-install. (But then again, Im always apprehensive of claims that make things seem super easy.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed direct. I use Cerberus (and before that, avast! Anti-Theft) to help secure my devices, but these things are all a game of chance. My advice: completely disregard remote-install abilities. If you're going to use this kind of service, it really doesn't make any sense not to install it yourself, where you can change your preferences (such as install to /system or rename the application) to work for you.
The bigger problem is that, obviously, six hundred million things could go wrong. I noticed that AndroidLost noted that they were using Google to push messages, which indicates that they're using C2DM (unlikely, it's deprecated) or GCM push services, which require your phone being connected to a network (itself a big assumption) that will allow Google's ports to send traffic. This excludes no small number of places, particularly corporate networks (and many schools as well). It also looks like one of the wakeup methods if SMS, which is not only noticeable (to a thief), but potentially may be intercepted by other apps on the phone (such as an alternative SMS app).
The idea is that these apps intercept and delete any command SMS before any other app, but in practice this doesn't always happen. So test your setup before something happens!
Rirere said:
I installed direct. I use Cerberus (and before that, avast! Anti-Theft) to help secure my devices, but these things are all a game of chance. My advice: completely disregard remote-install abilities. If you're going to use this kind of service, it really doesn't make any sense not to install it yourself, where you can change your preferences (such as install to /system or rename the application) to work for you.
The bigger problem is that, obviously, six hundred million things could go wrong. I noticed that AndroidLost noted that they were using Google to push messages, which indicates that they're using C2DM (unlikely, it's deprecated) or GCM push services, which require your phone being connected to a network (itself a big assumption) that will allow Google's ports to send traffic. This excludes no small number of places, particularly corporate networks (and many schools as well). It also looks like one of the wakeup methods if SMS, which is not only noticeable (to a thief), but potentially may be intercepted by other apps on the phone (such as an alternative SMS app).
The idea is that these apps intercept and delete any command SMS before any other app, but in practice this doesn't always happen. So test your setup before something happens!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info, I will look into Cerberus. I am assuming you would recommend that as you are currently using it? Do you think its better than AndroidLost, even though you haven't spent as much time w/ AndroidLost?
bigmatty said:
Thanks for the info, I will look into Cerberus. I am assuming you would recommend that as you are currently using it? Do you think its better than AndroidLost, even though you haven't spent as much time w/ AndroidLost?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like it a lot more, but I will admit I personally liked avast! better. Its uncertain future (plus a nice promotion) led me to jump ship to Cerberus. I'd have to play around with it a bit more to be sure though.
Rirere said:
No good, sorry. You're right on one count-- I just tested it, and it does interact with the stock lockscreen. Unfortunately, as I said earlier, unless the app is granted root/device admin privileges, no Android app can change the stock lockscreen...and since OP can't get into his device, he can't grant it device admin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, you're right I can't get root under this situation, thanks a lot I'm trying to figure out how to save my data mow
EX_RIVER said:
Yep, you're right I can't get root under this situation, thanks a lot I'm trying to figure out how to save my data mow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not root you need per se, it's device admin. But root isn't an easy option for you either, because unlocking your bootloader will hose your data. I also think most of the locked-bootloader exploits require the device to be on and unlocked. If you're signed into your Google account, you should have a fair degree of stuff backed up already-- what sorts of data are you trying to save?
Rirere said:
It's not root you need per se, it's device admin. But root isn't an easy option for you either, because unlocking your bootloader will hose your data. I also think most of the locked-bootloader exploits require the device to be on and unlocked. If you're signed into your Google account, you should have a fair degree of stuff backed up already-- what sorts of data are you trying to save?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mostly..........Photos and videos
EX_RIVER said:
Mostly..........Photos and videos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...do you have a Google+ account? Slash have you ever opened the app? If so, you might actually be in luck and your data should have been backed up to your Google+ (or PicasaWeb if you prefer).
I got a Like New NST, reset it, unregistered it, and rooted it. I haven't replaced the kernel yet. But I have noticed that (even before I rooted it) the battery consumption is unacceptable. I've seen some old threads about this (for example https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1475070) , and some suggested removing some APKs like Phone.apk and TelephonyProvider.apk, while others suggested removing or disabling some B&N-related APKs.
The thing is that some other threads seem to imply these solutions are bogus and that they don't really help. There is a lot of conflicting information spread around on this topic.
Does anybody know if there is a solution to this issue? I'm really loving the NST, it's an amazing reader in all ways except for this glaring issue.
Thanks!
Winston S. said:
I got a Like New NST, reset it, unregistered it, and rooted it. I haven't replaced the kernel yet. But I have noticed that (even before I rooted it) the battery consumption is unacceptable. I've seen some old threads about this (for example https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1475070) , and some suggested removing some APKs like Phone.apk and TelephonyProvider.apk, while others suggested removing or disabling some B&N-related APKs.
The thing is that some other threads seem to imply these solutions are bogus and that they don't really help. There is a lot of conflicting information spread around on this topic.
Does anybody know if there is a solution to this issue? I'm really loving the NST, it's an amazing reader in all ways except for this glaring issue.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sympathize and don't want to add to the conflicting information. Read what I wrote here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78287581&postcount=2 under "Decrapify system/app". I can tell you definitively that Phone.apk has little or nothing to do with your battery drain. I did a major study on that issue a long time ago: https://forum.xda-developers.com/nook-touch/general/battery-usage-phone-apk-t3341370
nmyshkin said:
I sympathize and don't want to add to the conflicting information. Read what I wrote here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78287581&postcount=2 under "Decrapify system/app". I can tell you definitively that Phone.apk has little or nothing to do with your battery drain. I did a major study on that issue a long time ago: https://forum.xda-developers.com/nook-touch/general/battery-usage-phone-apk-t3341370
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for all your work, you are very methodic and logical, and I appreciate your generosity sharing all your knowledge about the NST (I have been reading up on different things here before I decided to buy one.) :good:
So, to condense all this, it looks as if neither deleting Phone.apk nor disabling B&N apps helps with battery consumption. Also, am I correct in concluding that having an unregistered Nook (or a Nook which is offline, even if registered) will invariably result in poor battery life? That's quite unfortunate, as I was planning to use my NST as a fully offline device.
Winston S. said:
So, to condense all this, it looks as if neither deleting Phone.apk nor disabling B&N apps helps with battery consumption. Also, am I correct in concluding that having an unregistered Nook (or a Nook which is offline, even if registered) will invariably result in poor battery life? That's quite unfortunate, as I was planning to use my NST as a fully offline device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Almost, but fortunately not quite right. Although B&N did some questionable stuff when they cobbled together the NST/G system, I don't think they expected the devices to spend a lot of time online. If the system detects that there is no WiFi, it just slaps a post-it on its internal "refrigerator" to remind it to try a check-in later. All of that happens pretty quickly and in the grand scheme of things Android where stuff is not always killed outright even when you've finished with it, it's not a Big Deal.
So register and forget. It's the easiest path to device stability and the intended power consumption pattern.
nmyshkin said:
Almost, but fortunately not quite right. Although B&N did some questionable stuff when they cobbled together the NST/G system, I don't think they expected the devices to spend a lot of time online. If the system detects that there is no WiFi, it just slaps a post-it on its internal "refrigerator" to remind it to try a check-in later. All of that happens pretty quickly and in the grand scheme of things Android where stuff is not always killed outright even when you've finished with it, it's not a Big Deal.
So register and forget. It's the easiest path to device stability and the intended power consumption pattern.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you again, I suppose if that's the case then I will register my NST. A couple questions: So if I register the device and never again connect to Wireless that "refrigerator post-it" won't expire?
And, most importantly, if I register with B&N will they push the 1.2.2 update on my device, or can I prevent that without any ill effect? I'd really like to stick to 1.2.1.
EDIT: I read your previous OP about the 1.2.2 OTA update, and your link for how to block it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=34433959&postcount=3
Renate NST also suggested deleting /system/app/DeviceManager.apk, but I don't know if this would be problematic with the B&N registration issue I'm trying to fix to begin with.
Is there a preferred way to do this and still keep the device registered and battery life unscathed?
I appreciate your help!
Winston S. said:
Thank you again, I suppose if that's the case then I will register my NST. A couple questions: So if I register the device and never again connect to Wireless that "refrigerator post-it" won't expire?
And, most importantly, if I register with B&N will they push the 1.2.2 update on my device, or can I prevent that without any ill effect? I'd really like to stick to 1.2.1.
EDIT: I read your previous OP about the 1.2.2 OTA update, and your link for how to block it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=34433959&postcount=3
Renate NST also suggested deleting /system/app/DeviceManager.apk, but I don't know if this would be problematic with the B&N registration issue I'm trying to fix to begin with.
Is there a preferred way to do this and still keep the device registered and battery life unscathed?
I appreciate your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think since you are just starting out working with the device and don't have work to lose by updating and re-rooting, registering and then updating (you can do it manually by downloading the file yourself) is your best bet. The device keeps a "last date contacted" and "next date to try contact" in settings.db. If there is no WiFi, it will just keep changing the dates. That's all.
OTOH, if you do not update but NEVER connect to WiFi, there will probably be no issue. The method to block updates "works", as I found, but it did not prevent the occasional reboot when I was connected to WiFi, so I finally just threw in the towel and updated my devices, starting over from scratch. I'm happy with the many changes I've made since, so it worked out for me. Not sure why you want to stay with 1.2.1. It is virtually identical to 1.2.2 and I don't believe there is anything on-site here that worked with 1.2.1 which doesn't also work with 1.2.2. All B&N did was patch contacts with their servers for TLS 1.2 compliance.
Deleting/disabling DeviceManager will give your NST Alzheimers as far as your registration is concerned and it will just begin wondering why it can't remember who it is and how/when to phone home--wherever that is. One of the problems with disabling B&N apps is that there are also jar files which don't get disabled and the system still tries to fool with those. You can delete/disable those as well but the more you niggle at the system architecture the more unstable the device becomes and the more things fail to work properly (like the Reader and Library).
Like I said before, it's better AND easier to just treat the device the way it was designed as far as updating or registering. You don't have to use a credit card, you don't even have to use a real e-mail address, I suppose. Then when all that is out of the way you can just install your own launcher and set the "n" button to Home. Voila! You'll never see or hear from the B&N stuff again and your battery will last a good long time.
nmyshkin said:
I think since you are just starting out working with the device and don't have work to lose by updating and re-rooting, registering and then updating (you can do it manually by downloading the file yourself) is your best bet. The device keeps a "last date contacted" and "next date to try contact" in settings.db. If there is no WiFi, it will just keep changing the dates. That's all.
OTOH, if you do not update but NEVER connect to WiFi, there will probably be no issue. The method to block updates "works", as I found, but it did not prevent the occasional reboot when I was connected to WiFi, so I finally just threw in the towel and updated my devices, starting over from scratch. I'm happy with the many changes I've made since, so it worked out for me. Not sure why you want to stay with 1.2.1. It is virtually identical to 1.2.2 and I don't believe there is anything on-site here that worked with 1.2.1 which doesn't also work with 1.2.2. All B&N did was patch contacts with their servers for TLS 1.2 compliance.
Deleting/disabling DeviceManager will give your NST Alzheimers as far as your registration is concerned and it will just begin wondering why it can't remember who it is and how/when to phone home--wherever that is. One of the problems with disabling B&N apps is that there are also jar files which don't get disabled and the system still tries to fool with those. You can delete/disable those as well but the more you niggle at the system architecture the more unstable the device becomes and the more things fail to work properly (like the Reader and Library).
Like I said before, it's better AND easier to just treat the device the way it was designed as far as updating or registering. You don't have to use a credit card, you don't even have to use a real e-mail address, I suppose. Then when all that is out of the way you can just install your own launcher and set the "n" button to Home. Voila! You'll never see or hear from the B&N stuff again and your battery will last a good long time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The main reason I want to avoid 1.2.2 is because I tend to value stability overall, and since most of the stuff here was created by the era of 1.2.1 or before, I am leery of doing something that will make things less compatible. Plus I am distrustful of B&N changes on a device this old. I also thought I had read you explaining some changes that needed to be done after a 1.2.2 update to make something work (NM, maybe? I forget.)
So my question was more along the lines of whether, when I register the device, it will be flagged immediately for update and cause some trouble if I don't, or even if the update will be downloaded in the background without me being able to do anything about it. I suppose I could always patch the sqlite file to disable OTA updates and then register. That would be the safest way to go. And you need to use ADB for this to work, right? There is no way to edit the file onboard the NST itself?
I can't wait for the battery consumption to be normal, because I am really enjoying my NST with its great ergonomy and the ability to install different readers. Mine is going to be a dedicated offline ebook reader, but a great one. And much of the reason it is so amazing is thanks to folks like you and Renate who have contributed so much. :good:
Winston S. said:
The main reason I want to avoid 1.2.2 is because I tend to value stability overall, and since most of the stuff here was created by the era of 1.2.1 or before, I am leery of doing something that will make things less compatible. Plus I am distrustful of B&N changes on a device this old. I also thought I had read you explaining some changes that needed to be done after a 1.2.2 update to make something work (NM, maybe? I forget.)
So my question was more along the lines of whether, when I register the device, it will be flagged immediately for update and cause some trouble if I don't, or even if the update will be downloaded in the background without me being able to do anything about it. I suppose I could always patch the sqlite file to disable OTA updates and then register. That would be the safest way to go. And you need to use ADB for this to work, right? There is no way to edit the file onboard the NST itself?
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There's really no reason to be concerned about the 1.2.2 update. It's all fine. B&N would not go to the trouble on an old device like this only to somehow wreck it. It's just a TLS security update and involves connection to their servers. Since you do not intend to use the device online, the only minor issue (resigning Opera Mobile browser-- which I've already provided elsewhere) is moot for you.
As for changing the OTA flag, you can do it via ADB if you install sqlite3. This is probably best since moving settings.db back onto the device after editing can be tricky. But you could eliminate the entire tango by just updating to 1.2.2 and going on with your life
nmyshkin said:
There's really no reason to be concerned about the 1.2.2 update. It's all fine. B&N would not go to the trouble on an old device like this only to somehow wreck it. It's just a TLS security update and involves connection to their servers. Since you do not intend to use the device online, the only minor issue (resigning Opera Mobile browser-- which I've already provided elsewhere) is moot for you.
As for changing the OTA flag, you can do it via ADB if you install sqlite3. This is probably best since moving settings.db back onto the device after editing can be tricky. But you could eliminate the entire tango by just updating to 1.2.2 and going on with your life
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Thank you for clarifying that, I think I have had an overdose of information from reading too many threads in a short span of time and somehow I got the idea NookManager had some sort of issue after the 1.2.2 update that required some tinkering. The fact that the update is limited to the TLS update means it doesn't affect me, so things would be OK. On the other hand, not installing the update also seems like wouldn't be an issue and I really wanted to get ADB going anyway to install things wirelessly, so the most logical path seems to go through the minimal effort required to change that setting anyway. It turns out I already have sqlite3 installed (I am running an Ubuntu system,) so even more reason to do this!
I'll be reading up on the way to get ADB working.
BTW, I know you have proposed probably changing NookManager to address different issues you have encountered. Let me know if I can be of any help. I have no experience building Android components and limited experience compiling, but I would be happy to learn a new skill.
Thanks! :good:
@nmyshkin I easily managed to change the OTA setting through USB ADB. (I'm keeping track of all this process so when I have everything set up I will create a thread for posterity to help anyone else with the same questions.)
Now, the problem I wasn't anticipating is that I didn't foresee the battery problems, so I used that procedure to avoid the Register prompt on startup (Bypass OOBE procedure.) But of course now I don't know how to register the Nook. Do I need to reset to Factory using NookManager, root, disable OTA, and then register? It would be nice if there is a way to avoid this?
EDIT: Searching through another thread I saw your suggestions (almost 3 years old) to use the DeviceRegistrator, so after creating a B&N account I did and it said that the registration was successful, but in Settings the Account is showing up as unavailable, so I restarted the NST, and still I am getting Account Unavailable under Settings. Does the Device Registrator not work anymore? Or have B&N stop registering NST devices?
So I checked by logging into the B&N account and as expected there are no NSTs linked to my account. The DeviceRegistrator app has a few options (Register Device, Authenticate Device, Register User, and Authenticate User.) I didn't touch the User options so I guess that is to create a new account. I just used the "Register Device" option. Do I need to Authenticate Device too, or is this just not working anymore?
I read somewhere that there is also another app called OOBE Reg or something like that that basically runs the default registration procedure, but I haven't found that app in my NST.
I actually went down a similar rabbit hole myself at one point when I was investigating selective disabling of B&N apps, etc. Yes, you need to authenticate. That may or may not have the desired effect. Right now DeviceRegistrator is your only option. It may or may not be possible to authenticate a rooted device by this method.
Having said that, maybe it's time to take a step back and ask yourself whether all this angst is worth the end result when the path of least resistance will yield an equally functional result. The answer to that depends, in part, on how much other stuff you have already done. But before you do more things don't forget that the basic device needs to be in optimum working condition (like not eating battery) first.
nmyshkin said:
I actually went down a similar rabbit hole myself at one point when I was investigating selective disabling of B&N apps, etc. Yes, you need to authenticate. That may or may not have the desired effect. Right now DeviceRegistrator is your only option. It may or may not be possible to authenticate a rooted device by this method.
Having said that, maybe it's time to take a step back and ask yourself whether all this angst is worth the end result when the path of least resistance will yield an equally functional result. The answer to that depends, in part, on how much other stuff you have already done. But before you do more things don't forget that the basic device needs to be in optimum working condition (like not eating battery) first.
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I will Authenticate using DeviceRegistrator and see if it works. The Catch 22 is that if I revert to Factory and then register the device I might have a problem with the 1.2.2 update I want to avoid (but yes, I realize at this point my aversion to 1.2.2 is basically irrational.) So I will try this approach first and report back. I will double check to see if the Nook Device shows up in my B&N account too, and I'll report again.
I agree 100% about putting the device in a sound baseline state before installing a lot into it. I'm documenting all that I do, and when I reach that state I'll create a thread about it. Hopefully it can be of use to someone down the road, because I do see new NST units being bought still every week in eBay.
I was relieved that ADB over USB was already enabled by installing NookManager and that I only needed to create a couple of files in my Ubuntu machine for it to work.
Winston S. said:
I was relieved that ADB over USB was already enabled by installing NookManager and that I only needed to create a couple of files in my Ubuntu machine for it to work.
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That's actually news to me. I had thought the flag for WiFi ADB was set. I've never tried USB.
nmyshkin said:
That's actually news to me. I had thought the flag for WiFi ADB was set. I've never tried USB.
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Yes, apparently ADB Konnect is set up so that if you start ADB Wireless it sets the flag, and then unsets it. I just tried ADB through Wireless and it also works.
To update on the DeviceRegistrator, I tried to Authenticate the Device and it didn't work (I got a banner saying that the operation is no longer supported.) So it looks like I will need to restore to Factory, register, and then root (which defeats the purpose of disabling OTA updates, as I can't do that until I root.)
@nmyshkin, is resetting the Nook to factory by using "Erase & Deregister Device" option in the stock Nook Settings the same as resetting to factory.zip from NookManager or holding the two Page Back hardware buttons on startup?
I reset mine using the "Erase & Deregister Device" menu option, and then registered and rooted it again, but still I am having problems with CoolReader (I am using the cr3_0_49_13.apk posted in the relevant thread.) Basically, there are no options to set the refresh interval where they should be, and the Options interface is black. Somebody mentioned this as well but they fixed it by restoring to factory, so I'm wondering what the deal is. Is this the only version of CoolReader people use with the NST?
Winston S. said:
@nmyshkin, is resetting the Nook to factory by using "Erase & Deregister Device" option in the stock Nook Settings the same as resetting to factory.zip from NookManager or holding the two Page Back hardware buttons on startup?
I reset mine using the "Erase & Deregister Device" menu option, and then registered and rooted it again, but still I am having problems with CoolReader (I am using the cr3_0_49_13.apk posted in the relevant thread.) Basically, there are no options to set the refresh interval where they should be, and the Options interface is black. Somebody mentioned this as well but they fixed it by restoring to factory, so I'm wondering what the deal is. Is this the only version of CoolReader people use with the NST?
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No, erase and deregister does just that. It removes your account info and settings. The factory reset is an actual reimaging of the device from the protected onboard image. This can be done with the two button technique, NookManager or eight failed boot attempts.
I'm afraid I can't help much with CoolReader. I once had a version installed but found it had way too many settings for me. I ended up using only the screensaver/book cover option but that was pretty silly and I eventually got rid of and wrote my own app for that.
I located the version for the other fellow, but that's the extent of my knowledge. I'll try it in a bit and see what you're talking about.
nmyshkin said:
No, erase and deregister does just that. It removes your account info and settings. The factory reset is an actual reimaging of the device from the protected onboard image. This can be done with the two button technique, NookManager or eight failed boot attempts.
I'm afraid I can't help much with CoolReader. I once had a version installed but found it had way too many settings for me. I ended up using only the screensaver/book cover option but that was pretty silly and I eventually got rid of and wrote my own app for that.
I located the version for the other fellow, but that's the extent of my knowledge. I'll try it in a bit and see what you're talking about.
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Please, don't waste any time with CoolReader. As usual, you saved the day. I'll reimage the device using the correct procedure, as I mistakenly believed this is what the Erase and Deregister option did. I think this will take care of the CoolReader weirdness, and if not I have found that NoRefresh works remarkably well with it anyway. Thank you!
Winston S. said:
Please, don't waste any time with CoolReader. As usual, you saved the day. I'll reimage the device using the correct procedure, as I mistakenly believed this is what the Erase and Deregister option did. I think this will take care of the CoolReader weirdness, and if not I have found that NoRefresh works remarkably well with it anyway. Thank you!
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Mmm.....I see nothing in that version of CoolReader thats looks anything like it was adapted for the NST. I got that version from a e-book blog post link so shame on me for passing along bogus stuff. It's definitely NOT the version I once had installed (whatever that was...). The current market version is incompatible and the "new" CoolReader GL installs but does not run. I took a look at the CR home at SourceForge and there are many versions available there but it would be trial-and-error with them--and maybe there is no magic bullet. If you search for "CoolReader" on the forum you will find a variety of references. In some lists of "working" apps there are version numbers. Tracking down one of those might be a start.
nmyshkin said:
Mmm.....I see nothing in that version of CoolReader thats looks anything like it was adapted for the NST. I got that version from a e-book blog post link so shame on me for passing along bogus stuff. It's definitely NOT the version I once had installed (whatever that was...). The current market version is incompatible and the "new" CoolReader GL installs but does not run. I took a look at the CR home at SourceForge and there are many versions available there but it would be trial-and-error with them--and maybe there is no magic bullet. If you search for "CoolReader" on the forum you will find a variety of references. In some lists of "working" apps there are version numbers. Tracking down one of those might be a start.
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Thank you for looking at this. I am a little confused, because you helped @ALinkToTao who was having problems with it, and he seems to imply that the version linked here which you referred him to ended up working for him..
So I'm just going to write that off to him being confused about the version he ended up installing. I will see if I find something that works, thanks again.
Winston S. said:
Thank you for looking at this. I am a little confused, because you helped @ALinkToTao who was having problems with it, and he seems to imply that the version linked here which you referred him to ended up working for him..
So I'm just going to write that off to him being confused about the version he ended up installing. I will see if I find something that works, thanks again.
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Yeah, so I need to redeem myself there. In my lame defense, I was just going with what was posted here: https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2...artial-refresh-and-page-button-support-video/
Clearly that is bogus. So I checked out @wozhere's listed working version, or something close.
I think the place to start is with the 3.1.2 series from the SourceForge home of CoolReader. The attached version looks a lot more like what I remember and has screen refresh options (only visible as settings while viewing a book).
There were many more options on the version I once had, so this one is a starting point only.