Related
Having used XZ's camera for some hundred pictures in various conditions, I have to comment on the very smart automatic mode. It does produce excellent results in identifying conditions and exposure and colour rendition are trully very good. However, photograhic quality is just not there. Detail suffers a lot from either noise or too much post processing. In some cases when viewing at 1:1 zoom, it reminds me the results of applying some of photoshop's artistic filters in a subtle yet identifiable way.
Sony must have had a reason to incorporate such heavy post processing. The Exmor RS module was originally designed to handle RGBW coding (white plus the traditional RGB). Apparently somewhere along the way, Sony changed their minds as they could not make it work to their "image quality standards" and reverted back to traditional RGB (1), (2). One can only make assumptions, but perhaps the rather heavy noise processing of the image and compression may have its roots to decisions taken to correct other issues, ie. degraded light performance and consequent noise through higher ISOs.
It would be interesting to see how the sensor performs in other phones. One example is the Oppo Find 5. Unfortunately the results are pretty much the same, ie. plenty of noise which brings down detail. (3), (4) Which can only mean that the root of the problem is either any firmware handling the signal of the actual image sensor or that the design itself is flawed.
It is rumoured that the same sensor will also be used in the new SGS4 (we will know soon enough) and the revised iPhone 5S. So let's wait and see what they can make of it. It would be disappointing to see two highly anticipated phones featuring worse cameras than the models they are replacing.
In photographic terms, the way to get better pictures is larger aperture and image stabilization. Letting more light in is the secret and there are two ways of doing it: larger aperture or longer exposure times. The latter results in shaky pictures which is counteracted to some extent though image stabilization. The former usually requires a longer camera+lens module. (in DSLRs larger aperture also means small DOF but this is not an issue for phone cameras where the sensor is so small). That's why incorporating a F/2.0 or F/2.2 aperture usually means thicker phone or a lump at the back. Sony also makes a F/2.2 module which is 5.5mm thick vs 4.2mm for the F/2.4 which was selected for the XZ, probably to keep its thickness to an impressive 7.9mm. (5) The larger aperture could also an excuse for the thickness of the Nokia Lumia 920 which its F/2.0 aperture lens. (6) However, Lumia 920 does pull it off and the result of a good sensor, the F/2.0 aperture and optical image stabilization is great photographic quality. Another approach is having less pixels, something HTC implemented in the One, which again features a F/2.0 aperture @ 9.3mm thickness. However this also has obvious disadvantages in losing detail and the ability to crop a photograph.
Higher pixel count, 13MP vs 8MP, also means that to get the same exposure with the same speed, aperture and ISO rating you need MORE light. (7) Thus, when 8MP is pretty good resolution for every day photography, increasing the pixel count just for the sake of it is the wrong way to go. I do not need to use my Canon 550D at more than 8MP, even when on holidays, even though it supports 18MP resolution.
What has the future in store for us? Well, Sony has made a large investment in the new assembly line and tools to produce the Exmor RS series and they want to see it through. So, I would expect to see revised editions of the module with significant improvements.
Many thanks for reading.
Sources
(1) engadget.com/2012/09/21/sony-exmor-rs-stacked-phone-camera-sensors-detuned-over-quality/
(2) droiddog.com/android-blog/2012/09/sonys-exmor-rs-sensors-downgraded-due-to-quality-concerns/
(3) gizmochina.com/2012/12/15/oppo-find-5-using-sony-cmos-exmor-rs-sensor-camera-component/
(4) gsmarena.com/oppo_find_5-review-880p8.php
(5) imaging-resource.com/news/2012/08/20/sony-exmor-rs-sensors-to-allow-slimmer-better-camera-phones
(6) nokia.com/global/products/phone/lumia920/specifications/[/url]
(7) wpcentral.com/thoughts-and-impressions-nokia-lumia-920s-pureview-camera
so XZ camera issue is due to a software?
For the Mp count, u mean that a DSLR like nikon D800 is not only useless but pointless DSLR.
Photographer use extra MP to take pics at RAW format then convert them the way the Photographer want.
Only the engineers at Sony know if the issue can be corrected with revised algorithms or indeed the sensor can't give anything more. My view is that if this was possible they would not have resorted to so much post processing in the first place. If anything Sony knows photography photography much more than Apple or Samsung.
Of course I am not suggesting that dSLRs have the same function as a camera phone. My personal view is that as a casual photographer I don't need more than 8MPs. Of course there have been instances were I choose to shoot in RAW but I doubt that in such a situation a 13MP camera sensor will bail me out anyway. A dSLR is another beast. My message was about finding the best balance for a camera phone.
Thank you
8MP on dslr is not the same 8MP on a phone.
The sensor in dslr is way bigger than the one i a phone.
Sent from my C6602 using xda premium
Hopefully this is not the result of the Sony camera division trying to hold back on their phones. It happened before with Sony Music trying to stop them from releasing a MP3 player, thats why they were stuck with the mini disk atrac bs for a long time and enter very later into the mp3 market. Too often things like this happened in the company where we see the left hand is trying to fight the right hand making the company so far behind the competitors. Makes no sense that their phone camera is still very mediocre where they make some of the best camera out there.
comparing to my Xperia X10i i get the feeling the color is to much yellow in iAutomatic!
https://picasaweb.google.com/114460...&authkey=Gv1sRgCOO5m9yRrqu1Vw&feat=directlink
btw: Your Opinion on this Topic ?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6777/understanding-camera-optics-smartphone-camera-trends
Is there anyway to make taken images stay at the size they are suposed to be? I mean i want to stop the compression of the image like I had on Xperia S and quality was much better (not better than on xperia Z tho )
Front-facing Camera
Back-facing Camera
LG G3 vs Samsung Galaxy S5 Camera
Magic Focus Feature
/ Strömma
Small G3 camera shootout:
First LG G3 samples get compared with the Galaxy S5, One M8, Note 3, and iPhone 5s
/ Strömma
Very good
Good.
crappy audio noise cancellation
Boobook said:
crappy audio noise cancellation
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yes I wonder if they haven't finalized their software for it or if you should only turn it on in certain situations or what.
Anyways, I haven't seen many videos but here's one that shows the super steady and well exposed video the G3 can shoot, along with no audio issues. Pretty impressive for indoors video so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffz71YW02lM
Looking good, the audio cancellation issues aren't great, but I hope it is software related somehow. I really dig the "magic focus" feature. Much better implementation than HTC.
The real question is if they have improved the camera in low-light conditions with moving objects. The LG G2 stock camera suffered BADLY in trying to shoot pictures of moving objects in low light conditions.
In addition, the stock G2 camera denoising algorithm was way too aggressive leading to watercolor-like pictures, again especially in low-light.
Glad they tried to address the slow focus issue with the G2 by implementing laser focus.
here are some samples
http://www.androidcentral.com/lg-g3-initial-photo-and-video-samples
hello00 said:
here are some samples
http://www.androidcentral.com/lg-g3-initial-photo-and-video-samples
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It looks good
I wonder how it performs against Z2
beezar said:
The real question is if they have improved the camera in low-light conditions with moving objects. The LG G2 stock camera suffered BADLY in trying to shoot pictures of moving objects in low light conditions.
In addition, the stock G2 camera denoising algorithm was way too aggressive leading to watercolor-like pictures, again especially in low-light.
Glad they tried to address the slow focus issue with the G2 by implementing laser focus.
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Photographer here -- unfortunately, in low light with ANY smartphone you'll have difficulty capturing a moving object. With low light, you require a longer shutter speed, and depending on how fast the object is moving, you're guaranteed to have blur. Whether your phone is hand held or on a tripod does not matter -- the motion is relative to the camera, not the camera itself.
In low light to be able to effectively capture a moving object with no blur you will need a large sensor camera (e.g. DSLR APS-C or m4/3) and fast (large aperture) lens. Smartphones have small sensors and can't capture as much light which therefore requires lengthening the shutter speed to allow enough light in to expose the scene properly. Similarly, they can't use higher ISO (sensitivity) to keep the shutter speed short either due to having excessive noise at comparable ISO levels.
The exception to this is a good flash. With a good flash you can use a faster shutter speed and be able to "freeze motion" better. Of course, the flashes on phones are underpowered and will only help you out if you're reasonably close to whatever you're trying to capture.
Just to give some examples, in lower light situations small sensor cameras pretty much have to use a 1/30s or longer shutter speed. Any object that's moving faster than a snail's pace will therefore have blur. On the other hand, with a large sensor camera and fast lens, you can realistically increase your ISO to say 6400 if you have a fast moving object and set your shutter speed to 1/200s and fire away.
Another issue is that we really don't have effective control over shutter speed on smartphones. Hopefully this will come eventually with Android's new API (along with RAW support). Sure, most people don't know how to shoot in manual mode but for those who do it's very helpful. I believe many phone manufacturers include a "sports" or "action" mode that will prioritize shutter speed over ISO (and no idea if the G2 has a similar mode), but still there's only so much it can do with a small sensor in a situation where the physics just aren't in its favor. Smartphones are great in good light, but if low light is a priority, a dedicated camera is the only solution.
thx for all that info KLMD, really helpful and easy to understand! cheers bud
Of course, glad to hear it was understandable.
With all that said, what do I think of the G3's camera so far? Well first off, OIS is critical when you're not shooting outdoors and not using a tripod (due to the shutter speeds as I explained above). No other Android flagship has OIS which is quite a shame, so based on that the G3 is already starting ahead of the pack. The benefit of this is clearly demonstrated in PhoneArena's samples compared to the Galaxy S5. Due to the indoor lighting, the S5's shots appear to lack detail because of the blur induced by a long shutter speed that's not stabilized optically. Meanwhile, the G3's are tack sharp. Their samples are more of a "real world" demonstration compared to many smartphone camera reviews where they have the indoors shots stabilized on a tripod. Having the phones on a tripod eliminates the reviewer's shaky hands from affecting results, but it also hides the necessity of OIS for low light photos. 99% of the time we're not using a tripod with our smartphones.
From samples I've seen so far, LG appears to have gotten their software processing down pretty well -- way better than the G2. White balance and exposure seem to be handled well, and photos seem to have better saturation than the G2.
The G3 also appears to have a wider angle lens than the S5, and I appreciate that its sensor is 4:3 rather than 16:9. 16:9 may fill up your entire screen when framing the shot, but if shooting in landscape mode you're really losing out on vertical height (and vice versa if oriented in portrait you're not getting much horizontally). The G3 without a doubt fits more into the frame due to both the lens angle and 4:3 aspect ratio.
With the OIS and good software processing, at this point the G3's camera looks to be the most promising of any Android device. I'll wait for more samples to make a firm conclusion, but again, the G3 is more compelling than anything else right now.
Edit: correction the Nexus 5 also has OIS, but of course it's also made by LG
klmd said:
Edit: correction the Nexus 5 also has OIS, but of course it's also made by LG
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HTC One M7 also has it, M8 lost it coz it didnt play well with the duo camera setup apparently.
My view on G3,Sorry to break ice about camera but here are facts :
1. There is no laser in g3 but laserish IR light that gets detected by camera to focus for near objects.
2. No practical use in daylight.
3. Useless to detect & focus on far objects - let's check when reviews comes for range. Depends on how powerful ir included.
4. Same camera hardware except Lewis software promotion.
These are simple practical physics facts of camera working.
.
Just info share no offense [emoji89]
NaveenKumarXDA said:
My view on G3,Sorry to break ice about camera but here are facts :
1. There is no laser in g3 but laserish IR light that gets detected by camera to focus for near objects.
2. No practical use in daylight.
3. Useless to detect & focus on far objects - let's check when reviews comes for range. Depends on how powerful ir included.
4. Same camera hardware except Lewis software promotion.
These are simple practical physics facts of camera working.
.
Just info share no offense [emoji89]
Helping Others is helping Ourself
Helping Others is helping Ourself
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what did u think it had? a laser from a gun
hello00 said:
what did u think it had? a laser from a gun
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Yes
Sent from my SM-G900P using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
Any confirmation of 1080p60?
Rapidfire75 said:
Any confirmation of 1080p60?
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Yes. Its already in the G2 also, so pretty obvious to be in G3.
Ohhhhooo
hello00 said:
what did u think it had? a laser from a gun
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Yes Sir, I thought "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Light" but not the case Here. Hence a Lie.
http://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_6s_galaxy_s6_xperia_z5-review-1329p2.php
Xperia Z5 took top honors, and the ranking look more like the Dxomark ranking
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
schecter7 said:
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
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Thanks a lot! After looking at your pics, I also went back to Tim's 20 MP vs. 8 MP comparison pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22126137922/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21515893794/in/photostream/
If you look at the EXIF info, they both used the same shutter speed, but the 8 MP used a higher ISO. Better exposure and less noise, so 8 MP mode is better for low light, as Tim has shown. Tim also waited for the tripod symbol for his 20 MP night shots.
So my question is this: Does the tripod symbol show up for non-night scenes? Like in moderate to bright light? It seems to me the Z5 has two AF modes - fast vs. slow AF. Fast AF is super fast, but only good for capturing a specific subject (and tends to blur the background). Slow AF does full scene analysis and takes longer. It would explain why people are getting such wildly varying results with the Z5.
Anyone wanna test and see? Please?
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
schecter7 said:
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
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Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
joe_dude said:
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
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Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
schecter7 said:
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
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Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
joe_dude said:
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
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Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
schecter7 said:
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
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Yeah, I think the ZU was the best phone of all time (when it came out). On light use, I've gotten 4 to 5 days out of it on a single charge. And Kitkat 4.4 and Lollipop 5.1.1 have been rock solid. If there were a Z5 Ultra (or Z6 Ultra), I'd get it in a heartbeat.
Anyway, I should be able to do some testing with the Z5 and a G4 shortly (yea!), but I don't have a lot of free time, so I'm gonna try to grab a bunch of shots and analyze them later. Oh well, RL comes first.
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
chesterr said:
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
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Yeah, a fully unlocked camera would be really cool. Well, for us geeks anyway. I think Sony's simplified manual modes are still not simple enough for the average consumer. But that's a problem with the average consumer, not the phone. xD
As for low light performance, let's see how it does in comparisons using the default 8 MP SA. Even if the tests don't adjust for its 24mm lens, I think it'll do a lot better than in 23 MP mode.
If things go well I might have my Z5 next week.
And do some proper testing with Z5 and Z2 which I know really well since I have it for over 1,5 years.
I should do a proper comparison. All the questions will be answered.
joe_dude said:
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
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Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
TheEndHK said:
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
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There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
EQ2000 said:
There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
TheEndHK said:
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
In any case, the Z5's flash is rated better by DXOMark than the S6. So it was obvious that the GSMArena's flowers flash test had some kind of problem. I mean just look at the pic - the Z5's pic was mostly of the night sky, while the S6 and 6S were mainly on the flowers. Because they didn't consider the FOV and framed the shot incorrectly, the Z5 detected it as a night scenery pic with flash fill, not a flash pic of flowers. There are examples from other reviews that show the Z5's flash working well and as expected.
Reviewers are expected to understand and be knowledgeable about the product they are reviewing. Would you ever buy a car magazine where the reviewers don't know what kind of engine is in the car, or how much gas it uses? Reviews that give false, misleading and/or incomplete information are bad for everyone.
---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------
EQ2000 said:
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
joe_dude said:
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to buy Z5c today(not sure, but most probably, if I could find a cheaper one for sales) and let me see how well the camera. Actually, I think it is worthless to discuss the camera before any big updates.
EQ2000 said:
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I'm still playing with SA. As much as I want to fiddle with the camera, I'm gonna have to cut the experimenting short to get back to other RL things. Sigh. But thanks for the suggestion... I'll keep in mind!
FYI, I did more analysis on the IFA photo you had posted. Believe it or not, I think the Z5 was correct with the exposure. Look closely at the pics - in the other two pics, the model was over-exposed. In the Z5 pic, she had a nicely balanced colour and brightness. The other phones did not do face detection, so measured the exposure based on the entire frame, and not on the model. Since the pic was primarily of the model, the Z5 took the picture as it had been intended.
This is part of the problem - we assume if the Z5's pic looks different, it is "incorrect". I'm starting to understand SA tries to do a lot, although sometimes it will guess incorrectly. But I think Sony needs to tweak SA to work better/more consistently.
Background
While the Z5 has demonstrated that it can take good daytime photos and excellent video (thanks to its closed-loop actuator), low-light performance has been a concern, due to a lack of OIS and its smaller pixels.
I had the opportunity to borrow an LG G4 to test low-light conditions with the Z5. Testing took a while, as I needed to understand the different scene selections of the Z5's Superior Auto mode. I chose two classic, well-known, posters for the basis of the analysis: Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back and Breakfast at Tiffany's. The posters feature both artwork and text, which should provide a good mix of characteristics for comparison. Also, the posters can easily be found online, so no reference photos were necessary.
Test conditions
The SW:ESB poster was lit from a single, overhead, incandecent light bulb (60 watt), which was roughly 10 ft/3 m away. The Breakfast at Tiffany's poster had no nearby light source - the light comes from the next room over 20+ ft/ 7+ m away.
All photos were taken in automatic mode for both phones. The Z5 was set to 8 MP in 16:9 ratio. I had tried set up the photos to look as similar as possible.
Camera setup
The SW:ESB night pics were taken while sitting down. The Z5 photos are as follows:
a) Night mode icon (i.e. moon icon)
b) Night mode icon + tripod icon
c) Night mode icon + tripod icon, phone holder stabilized (not hand-held)
The Breakfast at Tiffany's pics were taken while standing up, with arms in an elevated position. This is was due to the fact that the poster was mounted higher on the wall. It should represent the Z5's worse case scenario, as there was no way to stay completely steady due to the awkward posture and poor lighting.
Note: I had to re-take the Breakfast at Tiffany's photo, as I discovered that the initial photo had moved the focus to the top of the poster, due to face detection. I manually adjusted the focus rather than cut off Audrey's elegant face. When face detection icon was not on screen, the low-light icon (i.e. candle icon) would come on.
Link to photos (7-zipped):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Put-ePeAktZXE4YkxpNmhmWUk
The photos have not been edited in any way, other than to rename the files. I will leave the photos up for a couple of weeks. If you are reading this post after November 2015, and would like a link to the pics, please send me a PM.
Conclusion
OIS definitely helped with the low-light pics. The difference in detail was due to blurring, not MPs as far I could tell. In better lighting conditions or when stabilized, the Z5 and G4 had the same level of detail. The G4 pics became more and more "washed out" as the light level dropped, which was probably due to its smaller sensor.
Kids vs. stills: For quick snaps of people in moderate-to-low lighting, the Z5 was better, due to face detection. OIS couldn't do much to help. G4 had a lot more blurred photos, but when it wasn't blurred, the quality was good.
So why choose the Z5 (without OIS)? For the video recording. Once you've tried taking FHD videos with the Z5, you'll probably never go back to using OIS. Try it in the store... take a walk, jump up and down, shake it all around. It's pretty dang amazing.
Anyway, I hope the pics and the comparison were helpful.
Cheers!
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
schecter7 said:
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gah... I don't have the G4 to test with anymore. I didn't say it was "dinner by candle light". But I'll change the title a bit.
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
bloodfire1004 said:
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
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Click to collapse
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
schecter7 said:
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see. Thanks!
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
EQ2000 said:
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me Sir. Do you actually know what are you speaking? You always blame S6 got strong noise reduction but when you found noises there you also said that S6 is too bad to has noise.
Sony is all good in your mind even there are indeed more flat area in photo but you'll just think that some noises to simulate fine grain so it's all good.....
To be honest, I've also played a lots of video stuffs, I was a video lover. The film grain isn't real using in this way. In the old days video encoding technologies were not yet mature, the encoder did remove too much things from the source and people was trying to apply some noises in flat area to fraud human eye but this method should not use again in recent year. Some others were trying to simulate old Film noises for special purpose though.
The environment is total stable and it won't change the result after 15 - 20mins like day time so it is meaningless to mention about this, I'm not only focusing to take photo because my friends whatsapp me. Furthermore, the Z5c is freaking hard to get good result in such low light condition, some scenes were actually been taken 4 to 5 times to try to get one with good result. S6 was almost all done in one shot.
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While an instructive and very interesting comparison, we do loose a bit of something by dealing with differing Fields of View. Some of the loss of detailing that you might otherwise put down to the sensor or software is actually far more about the focus of the lens on the sensor. To see what the detail reproduction is more accurately, we could do with seeing the two framed identically (IE, taking half a step nearer with the Z5 when taking the shot to correct for the different lens).
While I hate to put you to more trouble, could you have a go at this at all? Thanks
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
<Text removed>
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, Hong Kong... been there several times. Sorry, but I hate to say it, the video quality on the S6 was not very good. Maybe when standing still it's good, but as soon as you started panning, the video was jittery. In FHD, the Z5 was completely smooth. In 4K, both videos were jittery.
If you're going to critical of the Z5, you should be at least as critical about the S6's poor video performance. You live in HK... a fast paced city. Hold it up and walk around with the crowd, take it on the bus, go up and down the subways stairs. Don't use the Z5 and take video like it's an S6 - judge it on its own merit. If you've ever tried to keep up with a child and record video, you'd know what I mean!
Thanks for the vids and photos... I'll check out the photos later.
TheEndHK said:
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
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Click to collapse
Okay, I've gone through the pics, comparing both sets of pics side-by-side. First thing I noted was that a few of the Z5 pics were actually less blurry than the S6. LOL! I think I could have done better with the G4.
At 100% size, the Z5 and S6 had nearly the same level of detail across the pics, except for a few pics where either the S6 or Z5 was clearly blurred. The Z5 had smaller text because of the FOV, but it wasn't any harder to read.
I thought the S6 would be the clear winner with OIS, but the pics look very close in quality. Z5 should have slightly better colours, but I can't tell without neutral reference pics. I think you should have spent more time stabilizing the S6. From your pics and video, I'd choose the Z5, since the only thing that's clearly better from the two sets was the Z5's FHD video. xD
Now that I've had the Z5 for a couple of weeks, here are my thoughts:
Here on XDA, we tend to get overly technical (no, really?), so I've been thinking about how a "normal" person would decide to get and use the Z5. I bought the Z5 based on early impressions of its video performance and technical details of the new camera system (dat closed-loop actuator). After taking some family vids running around the house, I'd say it works as advertised.
But it was my SO's reaction (a non-geek) that was more telling. She was curious how the videos would turn out, as I barely paid attention to the phone while it was taking videos. She was impressed and commented that it was so smooth that it looked "professional". As any family man knows, having the "other half" onboard with a tech purchase means life is good! Heh!
The photo quality? Frankly, she didn't notice much difference between the Z5, G4 or even my old Z Ultra. The G4's OIS didn't help much for impromptu pics of people. I had plenty of blurred indoor shots of moving faces with each phone. The Z5 did try harder with face detection and scene selection to get good pics, while the G4 was basically a straight dummy point-and-shoot. The G4's strength is in its manual mode, and in quick snap situations, there was no time to play with the settings. Ironically, I caught some of the best moments - not talking about colour or details - from the Z Ultra, as it was the camera I was most familiar with. LOL!
The Z5 is now my go-to camera for videos. I think anyone who wants to take good family or vacation videos (or even vloggers), the Z5 is probably the best choice for a phone. Personally, I'd still take a real camera on vacations for better pics and optical zoom. Gawd, nothing is more annoying than taking a pic of something and have it show up the size of a pinhead because I couldn't zoom in.
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
schecter7 said:
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
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Good shots and a good example piece that demonstrates that you can get very good night shots from the Z5. I especially like the carriage.
As is my way, I've been looking through Flickr at S6 shots that random people have posted and have come across images like https://flic.kr/p/A14UVf and https://flic.kr/p/ytEfJq - both of which are noisier than a great many night shots and indoors night shots I've taken with my Z5. These are not isolated examples.
Not very scientific, I know, but it's evidence that getting good results is as much about the person behind the camera as it is about the camera itself. Those S6 shots aren't really any better than anything that the Z5 could produce: detail is relatively similar (though a little better with the S6, probably) and noise is higher. Compare that bar shot with one of mine in MUCH worse lighting (so much darker than the image produced): https://flic.kr/p/AHaxNj . Sure, the detail is smudgy but it is there and there is far less noise, to boot. Not saying that my image is perfect - anything but - but seeing the S6 bar shot above (Full of very ugly noise in an environment with many more light sources) makes me wonder just how much better the S6 would've handled that scene, if at all.
Some of my initial comparative shots.
Just my first day with Z5, and the shots are in difficult conditions sometimes, on purpose.
The Zoom is ok considering it was bad lighting.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsknZUGYc
Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?
It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.
Well money talks. S7 just cant match Z1+ line. Take a look at original S7 full resolution photos. Photo IQ is awfull on the S7. Over-sharpening that creates awfull halos and contrast, to much texture detail, texture extraction that gives a gritty look and to much noise reduction that makes for a blurry image with lost detail and plastic look. S7 has borderline the bad CRT chromatic aberration look and reminds me of old cheap digital cameras.
I'll quote one of my other posts wher one can see that even in an unfair comparision that favors the S7 my Z1 just performs much better. Much better and if making things more even by choosing 2048x1536 for my Z1 photos and same or similar for S7 my Z1 just walks all over the S7. Z5 does no worse unless in SA or the NR goes wonky.
When I look at S7 photos in good and low light it just reminds me of the bad CRT "chromatic aberration" look. Great artistic value but the persons S7 destroys IQ beyond reparation. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/
I mean even the Z1 blows it out and Z5 even more. Look at this comparision which favors the S7 as the images are shown at 100% size which means my Z1 is showing a far bigger image aswell as in worse lighting conditions with far less photons in the ambient to capture (see shutter speed difference) yet it performs better. Would I scale it down to same size as the S7 it would be a brutal comparision leaving the S7 in the dust. One can choose 2048 pixel width to see this in the links.
Stock original photos, default camera apps.
S7 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25743187832/sizes/o/
Z1 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25516883060/sizes/o/
S7 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
Z1 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25019022984/sizes/o/
Might take some time some day with the Z5c and capture photos in same locations once the sun is about same (wild weather over here).
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And here are more S7 samples.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25208922064/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25404249180/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25021532094/sizes/o/
And here is low light.
Will check files once released here and compare CRC to see if they changed algorithms. As for the S7 I agree, it does moderately good but far worse than Sonys Xperia Z1+ line. The biggest issue on the S7 besides tending to go overboard with sharpening and noise reduction which smoothes out to much and gives a bad fake plastic look (often easily visible around fine-grain detail like branches and leaves) is that it also when post-processing brightens up the image by tweaking curves. Most software does this but should be catiously used to extract detail from low contrast areas. Samsung goes overboard often giving it the 'fake ISO' look where black turns grey. Xperia Z1+ phones give quite a bit better low light photos same ISO for ISO and shutter speed while not even having to resort to major curve tweaking just minor or barely any and it does it selectively in a often excellent way. I assume the BIONZ is really a power beast for such dedicated tasks but sensors in Sonys phones are just better even though older and they are coupled with great optics.
It's just now that Samsung is starting use similar tech that Sony already employed in their mobiles years ago. I think Iphone 6s also got a bit of it but it relies mostly on multi-frame photo composition to create higher ISO like the Nexus 6p HDR+ does. Xperia Z1+ also does this but only when doing ISO 6400 (atleast the Z1) else not. Problem is you need to keep scene static else you get ghosting and bluriness. Haven't checked it fully out for the Z5c though but it should do better.
I guess you could say the S6 gives more detail and less blur but it also has way to much curve tweaking as the S7 but just much worse for same low light situations. S6 just turns to a mess at ISO 1000+ and low light while S7 does better. Both S6 and S7 also automatically (atleast in auto mode) if stable does multi-frame capture in low light to create improved noise reduction. Why some S6/S7 photos at say ISO 1000 looks bad and others much cleaner. Scene has to be static though and mobile firm. Same concept you can find in ProCapture camera app and their noise reduction mode.
Photo example of the S7 post-processing and curves.
Without HDR enabled.
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With HDR enabled.
Sony avoids this in most cases and dont go overboard like that keeping blacks deep and rich aswell as colors punchy and representation of captured scene is far better.
And a Z1 sample from manual mode 8MP, 1/8 ISO 3200. Little and smart use of brightening via the changing curves despite high ISO of 3200 keeping the blacks quite well, global contrast and colors punchy despite heavy tungsten lighting!
Manual mode, 1/8 ISO 1600 of same scene two days apart around same time.
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The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?[/QUOTE]
Let me answer :
Are you able to drive faster in a Bentley than in a Renault even if you are a bad driver ?
Yes !!!
Same with photos quality (not photo skills)
I agree that the human factor is there but can not excuse all Sony conservative attitude plus Sony do not want to let 3rd party improve their lack of dev.
But still happy with my Z5 result... It is a phone and we do not have to expect the same quality as a Reflex
NJ72 said:
The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?
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Click to collapse
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.
Xeon said:
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.
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Click to collapse
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.
NJ72 said:
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.
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Well to be honest, SONY only brags about their camera performance in their devices.... This time in September they mentioned nothing but the 4K screen and the IMX300. No major change to the device design, software is close to stock android and the IP68 has been there for ages.
http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z5/
See ? They are so proud of their camera that this is the only marketing card in their hands for now. As for lack of expertise, I really doubt but I can nothing but believe that they thought they nailed it when in fact it's still horrible in low light conditions.
The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi
FYLin21 said:
The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi
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This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
One thing I noticed is that even Whatsapp camera looks awful. I understand that the pic is compressed and the post processing is non existent but on my Xperia Z the difference wasn't noticeable that much.
gm007 said:
Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.
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Click to collapse
Sorry but I tend to disagree. I dont think OEM release need google assistance. In fact SONY is very conservative when it comes to camera software. I bet they know how to unlock raw mode and compatibility yet they don't want to.
It's obvious that the post processing has been inconsistent across the Xperia line. A bit of trial and error if you want my opinion....
What you say about bad software is correct however unjustified. I can't accept it from an industry leader such as SONY.
OK the camera is almost perfect in manual mode if you want to go hardcore and adjust every possible value and mode for a snapshot but I don't want to spend 2 minutes for that :
Look at the difference between iPhone 6S and Z5 camera.... this lack of details is what makes me go nuts.
Xeon said:
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
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Click to collapse
This has been zoomed a bit using "clear image zoom" which just oversharpens things. It could be fine if they just use something that rounds off the edges for up sampling, but you see a lot of jagged circular blobs throughout the edges. I had taken a few pictures of this bird standing there but the camera kept overexposing the scene. Then I brought the exposure down and tried taking a photo - the bird a still standing there the moment I pressed the shutter.
The only thing to get around no burst mode is using 4K video. You can capture 8MP stills while you film but sometimes it causes the video to stutter and it takes a long time to save them. The stills also look worse than the video itself - the contrast is lower with washed out colours. It's better to grab frames after filming but you'l need another app to do this and I'm not sure which one as I do it on my computer using Media Player Classic. You can also crop to 1080p which is better than using the digital zoom in the app - unfortunately the bitrate of 4K video is a bit low so you can see some artifacts when cropped to 1080p ...
Is the shutter lag due to software or hardware? it's hard to say. Low resolution photos from Facebook messenger can be taken instantaneously, but all the third party apps I've tried exhibit shutter lag - I think even worse than the stock camera app... and don't forget only 8MP works with third party apps.
If the images were downscaled to 8MP or something, they would be good compared to some other cameras but that defeats the purpose of having 20/23MP.
Imagine seeing the loch ness monster and you took a photo but the shutter lag means your photo doesn't show it because it dove into the water
I will give you a small example why sony is bad software wise,
In lollipop we had fingerprint scanner test in the diagnostic menu and the test was not working.
So instead to fix it in marshmallow they removed the test completely lol.
Xeon said:
Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?
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Click to collapse
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.
danw_oz said:
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.
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Click to collapse
Ironically their sales and marketing strategy is flawed to death and it's chaotic but they wanna do marketing they do it the wrong way.
Seriously they should start recruiting...
hawker_gb said:
It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
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post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say
Barthlon said:
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say
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They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.
EQ2000 said:
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
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Xeon said:
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
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Kinda hard to make out what you are reffering to but "disaster"? Z5 series applies to aggressive area based NR in low contrast areas, as for the rest the photo is quite good and natural looking. Certainly better than most S7 photos you can find of similar ISO, shutter speed and scenery type. Atleast the NR can be countered partially with texture detail and clarity filters to bring out contrast in smudged areas. S7 you cant do nothing to repair photos as they are beyond reparation.
Click on images to view them in Flickr default display size. Atrocious and beyond reparation. The Z5 IQ despite smudgy NR in low contrast areas is head and shoulders above the S7 IQ. Z5 looks to the DSLR side while S7 looks to the cheap old digital camera side.
S7. Atrocious, the borderline bad CRT chromatic aberration look. Like relief filter applied shifting pixels due to horrible post-processing and subpar sensor.
Z5. The area based NR problem is clearly visible yet it looks much more natural and better despite being taken in much worse lighting conditions as evident by shutter speed and postition of sun and shadows.
As for the highlights you made that is pretty much what I already noted though the left side is from lens problem, that unit has decentered lenses thus blurred sides, right and/or left. You can see that in S7 to depeding on unit. Such a unit should be replaced. And all cameras have to do some detail extraction in low contrast areas (shadowed/non directly lit areas) and thus wont be as detailed as lit areas.
Take a look at S7 photo with shadowed areas, see? Noisy, smudgy with blotches and horrible even though ISO is low. Atleast the Z5 smoothes it out mostly OK. (left and right side)
One more time! You see? (right side trees and bushes)
You still cant see it!? Well some more then!
To the right!
To the left!
To the left!
And all around! :laugh: