Ditch the S6 - Galaxy S6 General

After having many android handsets, a number of which have been Samsungs, I've decided i'm going to get rid of my S6.
it's glitchy, slow, randomly freezes and isn't what I was expecting from such an expensive handset (bought outright) I'll be in favour of the 2015 nexus 5 or possibly the Blackberry Venice depending on official specs.
anyone else jumping ship?
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I love my S6,it may not have an SD card slot but it's fast. If you don't screw with them too much,they run great. It's one of the first 64 bit Android devices and I honestly think it runs just as well as an iPhone. #LovemyS6
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Will definitely check out the new nexus. I like my s6 but don't love it, and that's down to the software bloat and aggressive app closing all the time. I could happily multitask on my nexus 4 with 2gb ram but if you have 2 or 3 apps open on the s6 and switch between them they've closed and reload.
It's annoying more than a deal breaker, but shouldn't happen on a £600 phone

the S6 camera is the best i've ever used in an android phone
but the multitasking (closes background apps too aggressively) could be much improved
it ought to be an easy software fix... the hardware on this phone is class leading

Yeah I agree with you guys the camera and design of the phone is phenomenal, it just doesn't seem to want to work as well as it should on paper.
I haven't rooted this one due to warranty and knox trip and kept it standard.
I do think my time with Samsung has come to an end after owning this handset though, initially starting with the S2 and upgraded each year also had other handsets inbetween.
I had high hopes for one+2 but that didn't raise my eyebrows enough to hunt for one
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This is one of the most satisfying phones I've used in a while. I dislike the battery life and the RAM management, but how much I love the phone despite all that is a testament to how good it is.

I came back to Samsung after a short hiatus (S2). S6 is not perfect but I like it very much.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S6 Gold

iamsloany said:
After having many android handsets, a number of which have been Samsungs, I've decided i'm going to get rid of my S6.
it's glitchy, slow, randomly freezes and isn't what I was expecting from such an expensive handset (bought outright) I'll be in favour of the 2015 nexus 5 or possibly the Blackberry Venice depending on official specs.
anyone else jumping ship?
Sent from my SM-G920F using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it doesn't sound like my experience (except of course ram management, which is not very good), I would do a factory reset and flash one of the latest roms coh2 (iirc)

I have to agree, the S6 is very glitchy and it jutters. The worst thing is that it redraws my home screens often and it freezes. My HTC m9 is much faster neither of my phones are rooted and both were purchased sim free.

flash the Note5 port, makes big difference

The S6 hardware is just top notch(although extremely fragile body)! U can't get lag with this phone, seriously. It's faster than my bro's iP6 and the camera is the best I've ever used.
After S2, Samsung phones were over for me. But the S6 is just a grade above others and theming is so great. Feels like my old Nokias with lots of themes!

I love my Sprint S6, now it is even better after the August 24th Samsung Pay update. The icons and UI look just like the Note 5. I am really looking forward to using Samsung Pay, I am going to sign up for beta.

iamsloany said:
After having many android handsets, a number of which have been Samsungs, I've decided i'm going to get rid of my S6.
it's glitchy, slow, randomly freezes and isn't what I was expecting from such an expensive handset (bought outright) I'll be in favour of the 2015 nexus 5 or possibly the Blackberry Venice depending on official specs.
anyone else jumping ship?
Sent from my SM-G920F using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I've found completely the opposite
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iamsloany said:
After having many android handsets, a number of which have been Samsungs, I've decided i'm going to get rid of my S6.
it's glitchy, slow, randomly freezes and isn't what I was expecting from such an expensive handset (bought outright) I'll be in favour of the 2015 nexus 5 or possibly the Blackberry Venice depending on official specs.
anyone else jumping ship?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to read this thread - I imagine it's a bunch of people just telling you to go away if you don't like it.
This is the first Android phone that I have been completely miserable with, and wish a switched to iPhone instead of getting the S6. I love the camera, I love the body, and I hate iPhone/iOS, but the S6 is, overall, a miserable, crappy experience.

iamsloany said:
After having many android handsets, a number of which have been Samsungs, I've decided i'm going to get rid of my S6.
it's glitchy, slow, randomly freezes and isn't what I was expecting from such an expensive handset (bought outright) I'll be in favour of the 2015 nexus 5 or possibly the Blackberry Venice depending on official specs.
anyone else jumping ship?
Sent from my SM-G920F using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You realized that you are the only one planning to get rid of your s6 ??? (it's sends a strong positive message about the phone performance & qualifications)
In the world of none perfect smartphones today, the S6 is the most perfect phone!!!
Use it smart and get rid of the bloatware (I used no root Package Disabler Pro). My S6 runs smooth with no glitches what so ever!
---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------
iamsloany said:
After having many android handsets, a number of which have been Samsungs, I've decided i'm going to get rid of my S6.
it's glitchy, slow, randomly freezes and isn't what I was expecting from such an expensive handset (bought outright) I'll be in favour of the 2015 nexus 5 or possibly the Blackberry Venice depending on official specs.
anyone else jumping ship?
Sent from my SM-G920F using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Second part:
Let me give you a piece of advise (or how to solve your s6 issue):
1) backup your phone to Smart Switch
2) Reset the phone to factory setting (don't use restore), setup as new after reset
3) Reinstall your original stock firmware through Smart Switch
4) If you wish, restore your backup from Smart Switch.
Then, if this does not work, you got a "bad apple"!

I think it's more to do with the out of the box experience that hasn't really "wowed me" which is what I anticipated when I 1st had the phone.
I've refrained from rooting on this handset due to warranty in the UK being a pain in the arse.
If I am the only one planning to get rid of it's more to do with personal preference and the old saying of "you can't please everyone"
cheers for input guys nice to see I'm not the only one a bit disappointed with the S6
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i must say i was an apple fanboy up until my last iphone 5 i just got sick of having to jailbreak the dam thing to be able to mess around with it, thats why i turned to android and since getting the s6 i think its a great phone, im on ee and not rooted yet dont know if its an ee thing. from out the box the phone worked great not as many issues at all as I am hearing from people and then since the update to 5.1.1 its just supper quick solid phone.

I agree with you OP. And to those saying to root and flash custom rom that shouldn't be a solution around these issues. I shouldn't have to trip warranty and break functionality (ex. Samsung pay) just to have my $700 phone work without lag and slowing down when too many apps are open. Although my favorite feature is a Samsung only feature, multi window, I'll most likely switch to the new moto x when that comes out.
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I'm getting rid of mine too in prep for the new nexus.
The camera is great but general usage is just 'meh' compared to my older s5. The s5 is actually much smoother, especially in web browsing.

otariq said:
I agree with you OP. And to those saying to root and flash custom rom that shouldn't be a solution around these issues. I shouldn't have to trip warranty and break functionality (ex. Samsung pay) just to have my $700 phone work without lag and slowing down when too many apps are open. Although my favorite feature is a Samsung only feature, multi window, I'll most likely switch to the new moto x when that comes out.
Sent from my SM-G920T using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the multiwindow
feature is really good I do like it and yes I shouldn't have to root it to get a better user experience, I've rooted many phones in the past but that was due to wanting to root them, not the case with this as I can't be bothered with it in general
f1ux said:
I'm getting rid of mine too in prep for the new nexus.
The camera is great but general usage is just 'meh' compared to my older s5. The s5 is actually much smoother, especially in web browsing.
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Click to collapse
I think the s5 was good loved it had waterproofing to an extent which they should have stuck with but hey-ho samsung follow the trend of other smartphone makers instead of being innovators for such a huge company, this phone could have been so much better for all the hype and marketing its had, same goes for the s6+ edge I mean talk about imitating apple which samsung has done for a few years now, def last Samsung for me bored of them
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Related

Anyone else had enough of Samsung

Ive been with aamsung since the s3 days. Before i was a sense guy for the longest. Now with samsung waiting ages to release lollipop for a phone that cost me almost 900$ im almost fed up and really want to go another route next time i buy a phone..
Buy a Nexus then and enjoy beta testing? Getting any update is a crapshoot for pretty much any other OEM and varies from phone to phone...
$900. You got ripped off. LoL
Sorry man, just because they don't give your phone an update is not justice to say off with your head. They did not leave you with a broken non functioning phone. Whats next are we gonna put together a class action lawsuit. I still say samsung always has had the best hardware when it comes to phones. That's what intrigued me was the hardware not android. I used to be an HTC guy too back in the day. I switched because samsung phones always outperformed the HTC. This is still true to this date. If you mad cuz they haven't updated to lollipop, well that is just crazy.
I love Samsung, in fact most of my electronics are Samsung....no issues what so ever. FYI....I would've paid $900 with no problem, but it didn't cost no where near that.
Why r u so worried about getting lollipop? It's pretty crappy still. I have 5.0.1 on my Shield tablet it's got a bunch of weird bugs. I also have 5.0.2 on my nexus 5 and it's a piece of shirt now because of it.
Sometimes it's not best to be first. If you want lollipop so bad flash an AOSP ROM and deal with all the bugs just like everyone else is.
I have no issues with house this phone runs on TW. It's way better than either of my Lollipop devices.
The grass always looks greener. But tbh lollipop I'd looking like a huge fail. Hopefully 5.1 will fix a bunch of issues.
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If you want the fastest updates, get a Nexus. If you want spectacular hardware and a polished looked, keep your Samsung.
So is there a magical bug that makes every OEM skinned device a brick when Google releases a new version of android? Is your phone somehow less useful?
Am I the only one who is not anxious for lollipop to drop? I'm perfectly happy with kit Kat at the moment. It was a different story from Gb to ICS back in the Galaxy S2 days.
ShrekOpher said:
Why r u so worried about getting lollipop? It's pretty crappy still. I have 5.0.1 on my Shield tablet it's got a bunch of weird bugs. I also have 5.0.2 on my nexus 5 and it's a piece of shirt now because of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Nexus 7 and Shield Tablet. Lollipop is a complete mess. I can't believe they released it at all so far. Disappointed.
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using Tapatalk
Sigh, some folks get so dramatic over things. Outside of Nexus devices, other OEMs are not significantly different than Samsung. A month or two either way doesn't change the lifetime enjoyment of a device.
Would you rather have a device with an inferior screen, no S-pen, lesser performance, less functionality, a worse camera, etc? The Note 4 has been tops since it was released and will be top dog until the new phones come out at MWC.
Also - Samsung is updating the Note 2 with Lollipop- that's 2.5 years after release. Have other OEMs committed to updating their phones from 2012?
Well let's see. I've been a fan of amhung since the captivate days(galaxy s series)so that pretty much makes me a die hard amhung fan. Will I choose a different brand phone? Probably not. ?
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I love Samsung products. I've become a little bored with there design philosophy but as a whole I think there as good as it gets. I personally could careless how long it takes for the update as long as everything works like it's supposed to and as of right now it does with KitKat. Like others said, there have been a lot of bugs with LP so far and I'm kind of glad there taking there time instead of rushing it and needing to push several updates. If they were to push it and things were messed up, most of the people complaining about it taking so long would then complain about that.
And then when we finally get Lollipop there will be 20 threads about how bad/buggy it is and a bunch of people constantly asking how to flash back to KitKat.
I am using my iPhone 6+ until lollipop is released.
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I don't get all the hate on lollipop. I have it on my N7, had it before my One M7 GPE died and tried it on here. It ran perfect and lag free for me.
However I just enjoy the fingerprint scanner, the full S Pen functions and the one hand use features.
Also WiFi calling is a must for me at work right now.
Post started by someone who once they receive the update will also have something to complain about.
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egren58 said:
Ive been with aamsung since the s3 days. Before i was a sense guy for the longest. Now with samsung waiting ages to release lollipop for a phone that cost me almost 900$ im almost fed up and really want to go another route next time i buy a phone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you blame Samsung for not getting Lollipop already? Samsung released Lollipop for most of the international phones http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/910f-official-lolipop-germany-dbt-t3029508 just an example...perhaps you should find out what is the hold up from your carrier trying to stuff T-Mobile bloat onto Samsung's existing release or any other US Carrier for that matter.
I kn I w its not all samsung but i don't think its fair thst we buy their latest flagship than become last in line to receive the new OS.
Life isn't fair. Nothing is promised to you and Note 3 and S5 users bought the latest flagship before you..

What is the Future of this phone as of now ?

I've had this phone about 3 months now and thought it was going to be good in the dev community but as im seeing now it seems all dev for this phone is dead or dying, so what hope is there that we will have any roms or new mods for this phone?Yes i understand about the locked bootloader but i was looking at the note 7 forum and they have roms for there phone and the note 7 came out after the 7 edge? i would just like to know in everyone's opinion should we be waiting and hoping for someone to break the codes and unlock our phones true potential or just shut my mouth and sit back and take what i've got and be happy with it. Don't get me wrong i commend the Echoe rom team and all the hard work they did for us and that should not be overlooked. All im saying is what do we need to get this phone poppin like all the other phones ?
Thanks
A New S7 Edge Owner
I guess all we could do is hang on to this one and trade it in or sell it when the S8 comes out and maybe we won't get screwed on the next model.
I was thinking about trading it for one of the new Google Pixel XL phones, but they aren't going to have an SD slot. I think I am still going to trade it for something else though... having a hard time figuring out what I want that's comparable.
If you're looking for a mod friendly device, you should look elsewhere. With a locked bootloader, you're not going to get much dev support. Having said that, I would say that the future of this phone is bright. I can honestly say that I see no reason for me to mess with the system. It's excellent as it is.
slayerh4x said:
I was thinking about trading it for one of the new Google Pixel XL phones, but they aren't going to have an SD slot. I think I am still going to trade it for something else though... having a hard time figuring out what I want that's comparable.
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Click to collapse
The Google pixel will be a joke. You'll see iphone 7 Will be years ahead of it. And I'm a android guy
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Yea, hate to say it, but Google should stick to making software. Either that, or actually develop the production capacity to do your own manufacturing or at least quality control, instead of farming it out to random Chinese manufacturers. My only experience with Nexus is the Nexus 5, but that device was awful. In fact, I can't think of a single redeeming quality of that device.
I'm selling mine and going back to the Note 4
slayerh4x said:
I was thinking about trading it for one of the new Google Pixel XL phones, but they aren't going to have an SD slot. I think I am still going to trade it for something else though... having a hard time figuring out what I want that's comparable.
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Click to collapse
The V20 seems like a nice alternative
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minhajmsd said:
The V20 seems like a nice alternative
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yeah. I'm thinking about the OnePlus 3, the support for that phone seems very good. Plus it is not too expensive. I wonder what my options are for switching phones, I don't think T Mobile will take back my phone and stop charging me my monthly device installment.
Yeah, I think you have to wait a bit more to be eligible for jump
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Wow you guys amaze me, I guess if it isnt made out of glass and metal with diamonds on it then its not worthy for you. I've had the nexus 5, 6 and 2013 7, and although this is a nice phone. Id take the functionality and stability of a nexus any day. You do not know what you are talking about if you really think this phone or an iphone is worlds ahead of a nexus. Yeah, the nexus 5 was cheap feeling, it was $350 brand new, and it was the most reliable phone I've ever had. And I've had a couple iphones, you guys either don't know what your doing or got a bad device.
Andromendous said:
Wow you guys amaze me, I guess if it isnt made out of glass and metal with diamonds on it then its not worthy for you. I've had the nexus 5, 6 and 2013 7, and although this is a nice phone. Id take the functionality and stability of a nexus any day. You do not know what you are talking about if you really think this phone or an iphone is worlds ahead of a nexus. Yeah, the nexus 5 was cheap feeling, it was $350 brand new, and it was the most reliable phone I've ever had. And I've had a couple iphones, you guys either don't know what your doing or got a bad device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been a nexus user since the Nexus 5 launched. and a CM user for years before then. the S7 edge is my first Samsung device (and only because I got it for free), because I have always felt the same way about Samsung as I do about apple. all hype, all trend, ignorant (non-power-user) fanbase. Samsung is literally the apple of Android, if you know what I mean. I'll never own another Samsung device after this one.
minhajmsd said:
The V20 seems like a nice alternative
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Click to collapse
Do you think the bootloader will be unlocked? I'm still kinda new to Android and the first recent one I got was this S7 Edge. The V20 does look really nice though, hope it is released soon.
I also like the HTC 10 because there is a ton of stuff for it. The Viper rom looks awesome, pretty crazy they have OTA updates for the rom.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-10/development
slayerh4x said:
Do you think the bootloader will be unlocked? I'm still kinda new to Android and the first recent one I got was this S7 Edge. The V20 does look really nice though, hope it is released soon.
I also like the HTC 10 because there is a ton of stuff for it. The Viper rom looks awesome, pretty crazy they have OTA updates for the rom.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-10/development
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Typically LG doesn't lock their bootloaders, and since its going to be the same phone internationally its dev community may be loads better.
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A few developments in the last month:
Unified 935U based roms - This will be great as the unification of US rom development (and the ability to have VOLTE) will make life better for US S7 users as they will have the newest rom of the 5 options running.
Note 7 release: The Note 7's UI seems better (samsung has already started promised to unify the UI in android 7) and the rom has been ported (same chipset).
Enhanced T-mobile Support on international models: Wifi calling/Volte has now been ported to the International (935F) model, at least if rooted. I switched as the Exynos version is faster and has better battery life (and the gap is greater in rooted versions than stock) and a stronger development community including Note 7 ports.
rp3 said:
A few developments in the last month:
Unified 935U based roms - This will be great as the unification of US rom development (and the ability to have VOLTE) will make life better for US S7 users as they will have the newest rom of the 5 options running.
Note 7 release: The Note 7's UI seems better (samsung has already started promised to unify the UI in android 7) and the rom has been ported (same chipset).
Enhanced T-mobile Support on international models: Wifi calling/Volte has now been ported to the International (935F) model, at least if rooted. I switched as the Exynos version is faster and has better battery life (and the gap is greater in rooted versions than stock) and a stronger development community including Note 7 ports.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so we should all get the Exynos version and call it a day is what you saying then ?
Icebluemale30 said:
so we should all get the Exynos version and call it a day is what you saying then ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodness no. If you root and just care about speed, battery and custom rom options on android 6/touchwiz (and don't care about US warranty support), I would say yes.
If you care about warranty support, want an unrooted phone (or the ability to root without tripping Knox), want to use Samsung Pay or like T-mobile's financing options, The US model is definitely the one. It also has more upside
Long Term, Samsung's Android 7 may see a boot-loader unlock option, which would jump start CM/kernel development (cutting the performance gap between the phones and giving people who like Samsung's industrial design but not their software design a good solution). Next month, there will be Nexus phones running SD820, which will continue the advantage Qualcomm based roms have in custom development.
I'm going to be patient. This is a book I've read before. The fact is that the S7 edge will have the bootloader unlocked eventually.
axne1 said:
I'm going to be patient. This is a book I've read before. The fact is that the S7 edge will have the bootloader unlocked eventually.
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Click to collapse
i hope you are right i hate to get a new phone i really like my S7 Edge
axne1 said:
I'm going to be patient. This is a book I've read before. The fact is that the S7 edge will have the bootloader unlocked eventually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only fact here is that nobody really knows what may or may not happen. Wishful thinking is one thing, but it is far from fact.
---------- Post added at 06:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 AM ----------
Andromendous said:
Wow you guys amaze me, I guess if it isnt made out of glass and metal with diamonds on it then its not worthy for you. I've had the nexus 5, 6 and 2013 7, and although this is a nice phone. Id take the functionality and stability of a nexus any day. You do not know what you are talking about if you really think this phone or an iphone is worlds ahead of a nexus. Yeah, the nexus 5 was cheap feeling, it was $350 brand new, and it was the most reliable phone I've ever had. And I've had a couple iphones, you guys either don't know what your doing or got a bad device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus 5 was an awful device, with awful battery life, awful display, awful speaker, and awful camera. It was quick with stock Android, but it literally had no other redeeming qualities. Mine has been used as a paperweight, to keep papers from flying off my desk when my windows is open. I am not joking. I will take an Apple device over the Nexus 5 any day, and I can't stand Apple. And yes, I have an Apple device too. I have not had any other Nexus devices, and probably never will. Samsung devices have treated me very well over the years so I am sticking with them. And honestly, the GS7 is an excellent device all around, I couldn't care less about a locked bootloader. The days of spending hours/days flashing ROMs are behind me. I have more important things to do with my free time. So before you go off and make blanket statements such as "we don't know what we are doing," consider the fact that some of us don't share the same interests as you. The majority of the world wants a device that works out of the box and doesn't know what a bootloader is, much less that it can be locked or unlocked. You, and this community, are a tiny minority of smartphone users. And guess what, there are companies that cater to you as well. Don't be pissed at Samsung for delivering what their customers wanted.

Where to now?

I don't think there's a thread that's solely about this but just out of curiosity, where's everyone going? I'm thinking of going to google pixel but that price point is.... a bit too much.
I can't decide. Gotta get rid of it though which sucks. Feel like a fool downgrading to an S7E but the phone seems good. If they had 128gb iPhone 7 plus available I might get that. Never had an iPhone before so I'm not sure if I'd like ios but I like the looks of the phone and the speed. The main thing that worries me about the s7e is its only 32gb and I've never used an SD card before. Also I'm going to be real bummed if the s8 comes out and it's awesome but I can't get it because I used my upgrade on the s7e.
DeMi-GoD said:
I can't decide. Gotta get rid of it though which sucks. Feel like a fool downgrading to an S7E but the phone seems good. If they had 128gb iPhone 7 plus available I might get that. Never had an iPhone before so I'm not sure if I'd like ios but I like the looks of the phone and the speed. The main thing that worries me about the s7e is its only 32gb and I've never used an SD card before. Also I'm going to be real bummed if the s8 comes out and it's awesome but I can't get it because I used my upgrade on the s7e.
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Click to collapse
I feel the same way about the s8 being released. Yeah all the phones right now feel like a downgrade. I have a s7 active on one line and an open note 4 device. So I'm gonna move those around and probably use the s7 active if I really want to wait.
I might get iphone 7 plus but i will surely miss note 7 & its unique features. Don't want to go back to s7e or any other android as of now. I have used iphones before but its only worth for me if jailbroken. RIP Note 7
I just took my first step out of the Note 7 world. I ordered the Oneplus 3. Should hold me over until the next big thing comes around. One positive note I will still have note 7 for a couple of weeks until the one plus 3 arrives.
I'll likely be going to the v20 because it's not a downgrade to the level the s7 edge is and I'll be able to keep the BOGO deal we got on our note 7's. Otherwise I'd likely go to the pixel xl
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I ended up on the S7 Edge, so far not too bad. Yet it is definitely a downgrade. I did get the 256gb SD card, and glad that works with the s7e. I would rather have the N7, but this will do. The battery is great, the screen is close to the same size. After disabling the AT&T and Google bloat, it runs smooth. I looked at the other phones out there, and the display is what has always grabbed me about Samsung, you get used to amoled and can't go back. AoD is getting better on the S7 edge and they are working on making some form of s note available.
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---------- Post added at 07:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 AM ----------
If any other manufacturers made a premium "pen" device I would have given it a go.
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I'd like to hold out for the Pixel XL... I'm not a fan of LG. Personally, the likelihood of a phone failure now is quite remote. 100 issues (at best) out of 3 million phones is better odds than getting struck lightning in Tampa. I'd just as soon keep the 7, but if they force the issue by blacklisting IMEI, then there is little other option...
What other options other than S7Edge for fast wireless charge are there???
Radimus said:
I'd like to hold out for the Pixel XL... I'm not a fan of LG. Personally, the likelihood of a phone failure now is quite remote. 100 issues (at best) out of 3 million phones is better odds than getting struck lightning in Tampa. I'd just as soon keep the 7, but if they force the issue by blacklisting IMEI, then there is little other option...
What other options other than S7Edge for fast wireless charge are there???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Older Samsung phones, unfortunately Samsung is the only one with any kind of fast wireless charging
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I'm going to the LG V20. I had an Optimus G Pro before my Note 4 (which i had before the Note7), and I loved that phone. Great battery life and fun to modify via root. Though, the battery life I got WAS due to root. Lol
Then I went to the Note 4 for the stylus. I felt like I took a hit with battery life, and the N4 seemed more boring for some reason, but it was OK.
So I'm thinking of going back to LG for at least the rest of this generation of phones, and may return to Samsung if they come out with a Note8 and if it turns out to be better than both the N7 and the V20. I won't preorder though. I'm going to wait at least 2 months to see how the phone behaves. No fires, no issues, and if it has everything I want, then yeah, sure, I'll then buy one.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk
Anyone looking at the Moto z play? Hmmmm
I did, but I wasn't impressed. If they had made a Moto X Pure 2016 model I would have been very tempted. The screen on that phone was very close to the 5.7 Super amoled that we note fans love. They just didn't make one this year. The mods seem like a cool idea tho.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using XDA-Developers mobile app
DeMi-GoD said:
I can't decide. Gotta get rid of it though which sucks. Feel like a fool downgrading to an S7E but the phone seems good. If they had 128gb iPhone 7 plus available I might get that. Never had an iPhone before so I'm not sure if I'd like ios but I like the looks of the phone and the speed. The main thing that worries me about the s7e is its only 32gb and I've never used an SD card before. Also I'm going to be real bummed if the s8 comes out and it's awesome but I can't get it because I used my upgrade on the s7e.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy gets it! :good: Same thoughts all the way around, so I won't repeat anything he said.
I am going with the V20, I can't downgrade to anything else. I would have gladly picked up some kind of bootloader unlocked Moto Z Force if it existed, but stupid VzW over here had to make it exclusive.... I wanted to stay with Moto from my X Pure 2015, but there is no equivalent this year like the last post also mentioned.
The ONLY problems with the V20 for me are:
No stylus
No wireless charging
No waterproofing
No shatterproof screen
The last one refers to the Moto Z Force of course, not the Note7, but it is late 2016, I feel like we shouldn't be worried about our phones as much as we have in the past when manufacturers are doing so much to defend them from drops or spills. LG unloads this V20 and it's almost looking fragile to me!
KryptosXLayer2 said:
This guy gets it! :good: Same thoughts all the way around, so I won't repeat anything he said.
I am going with the V20, I can't downgrade to anything else. I would have gladly picked up some kind of bootloader unlocked Moto Z Force if it existed, but stupid VzW over here had to make it exclusive.... I wanted to stay with Moto from my X Pure 2015, but there is no equivalent this year like the last post also mentioned.
The ONLY problems with the V20 for me are:
No stylus
No wireless charging
No waterproofing
No shatterproof screen
The last one refers to the Moto Z Force of course, not the Note7, but it is late 2016, I feel like we shouldn't be worried about our phones as much as we have in the past when manufacturers are doing so much to defend them from drops or spills. LG unloads this V20 and it's almost looking fragile to me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screen may not be shatterproof but it has a very high drop rating so there's that at least
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk
Majin101 said:
Anyone looking at the Moto z play? Hmmmm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With Lenovo laying off massive numbers of Moto people, and stating there's more to come in 2017, I don't trust them to continue following through with updates. But if you're rooted, that may not matter anyhow.
---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------
DeMi-GoD said:
I can't decide. Gotta get rid of it though which sucks. Feel like a fool downgrading to an S7E but the phone seems good. If they had 128gb iPhone 7 plus available I might get that. Never had an iPhone before so I'm not sure if I'd like ios but I like the looks of the phone and the speed. The main thing that worries me about the s7e is its only 32gb and I've never used an SD card before. Also I'm going to be real bummed if the s8 comes out and it's awesome but I can't get it because I used my upgrade on the s7e.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tested out the 6s+ for a week just to get a feel for iOS again. It ain't for me. Whether it's emulation, torrents, S Pen, or Samsung Pay: Android natively does more than iOS natively allows me to.
This might be good for us.
http://www.sammobile.com/2016/10/23...tedly-let-customers-get-a-galaxy-s8-for-free/
borijess said:
This might be good for us.
http://www.sammobile.com/2016/10/23...tedly-let-customers-get-a-galaxy-s8-for-free/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I hope that's true. However, I already bought google pixel xl. So....... Oh well for them

Did you come to S7 from Iphone 7? What are the pros and cons?

I'm thinking of switching up. I'm not too hip on IOS yet, but maybe because i'm not at all familiar with it. The Iphone seems very smooth. I dont think Verizon can change up the Iphone system the way they change Samsung to their liking. Much better update system for Apple. (they actually get them) for years. Just trying to get some thoughts. Iphone does without a doubt blow away Samsung in any speed test as does a bunch of lower price phones these days. I think Samsung has been overrated as a powerhouse phone. Dont get me wrong, i've had every Note from Note 2 to Note 7. I've just never had an Apple product and may be ready for a switch to a truly faster phone.
I switched from an iPhone 6 to the S7 Edge (due to the Note 7 being recalled around 2 hours before I sold my Iphone, without my knowledge), and while I do like some things about it, I really miss the apple ecosystem. The update thing is a big plus for iOS, and I didn't research enough before buying the phone to realize the Samsung locks it down so much. My last android phone (Droid DNA) had it's bootloader unlocked before I bought it, so I could flash all kinds of different roms whenever I got bored and it just had the openess that I expected from Android. I bought the S7Edge on the assumption that it would be the same, but unfortunately that's not the case.
Don't get me wrong, I like the phone, but not near as much as my old Iphone, partly due to the software, and partly due to the overwhelming amount of accessories available for Iphones compared to the S7, especially the edge version. The S7E has a beautiful screen, is smaller than my Iphone 6 was (with the same screen size), but I find the edge screen so annoying that I turned it off. It's also annoying that part of the time if I'm using one thumb to reach across the screen to the other side I accidentally brush part of my hand against the edge and open an app that I didn't want to open.
I want to love it, but I like to root my android phones and having to use the engineer kernel to accomplish it has slowed my phone down and lowered the battery life. That's a trade off I accepted though, due to the limitations of the current original development, i.e. very few roms, still locked bootloader, etc... I love the stuff that everyone has done for the phone, especially given it's limitations, so I hope nobody thinks I'm blaming the developers for lack of development, because I sure as hell wouldn't know what to do with it.
runnerguy1987 said:
I switched from an iPhone 6 to the S7 Edge (due to the Note 7 being recalled around 2 hours before I sold my Iphone, without my knowledge), and while I do like some things about it, I really miss the apple ecosystem. The update thing is a big plus for iOS, and I didn't research enough before buying the phone to realize the Samsung locks it down so much. My last android phone (Droid DNA) had it's bootloader unlocked before I bought it, so I could flash all kinds of different roms whenever I got bored and it just had the openess that I expected from Android. I bought the S7Edge on the assumption that it would be the same, but unfortunately that's not the case.
Don't get me wrong, I like the phone, but not near as much as my old Iphone, partly due to the software, and partly due to the overwhelming amount of accessories available for Iphones compared to the S7, especially the edge version. The S7E has a beautiful screen, is smaller than my Iphone 6 was (with the same screen size), but I find the edge screen so annoying that I turned it off. It's also annoying that part of the time if I'm using one thumb to reach across the screen to the other side I accidentally brush part of my hand against the edge and open an app that I didn't want to open.
I want to love it, but I like to root my android phones and having to use the engineer kernel to accomplish it has slowed my phone down and lowered the battery life. That's a trade off I accepted though, due to the limitations of the current original development, i.e. very few roms, still locked bootloader, etc... I love the stuff that everyone has done for the phone, especially given it's limitations, so I hope nobody thinks I'm blaming the developers for lack of development, because I sure as hell wouldn't know what to do with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely love the phone too, but I will be switching to the iPhone 7 Plus shortly. This is mostly due to every reason you mentioned plus the fact that I have not really owned an Android phone that has not slowed down significantly over time (except for the LG G5, but it had many other problems).
iPhone is great. I've had several but this phone is so much fun. The only gripe I really have with this phone is battery drain but then again, fast wireless charging completely makes up for it.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
My wife has always owned iPhones and I just bought her the 7 Plus for Christmas. But I do not like ios at all. Also the screen is the same size as my S7 Edge but it has a much larger footprint. One guy replied that Samsung locks down their phones. No one locks down their devices more than Apple. Most of the Android restrictions are from the carriers. I have not noticed a slow down of my phone as another reply suggested. Sometimes you have to clear the cache if things seem to be sluggish. Speed test don't mean a thing when it comes to real world use. I always play around with my wife's iPhones to see how well they run and to me I don't see a significant advantage compared to my Android flagships. My only issue, like someone else mentioned is the overly sensitive edge. That's a common issue with the S7 Edge but not everyone has it. Others have the opposite issue of screen being slow to respond. If not for the screen issue I would keep my Edge for at least 2 years because I like everything else about it. I plan to get the S8 when it is released. But I'll never buy a iPhone for myself.
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Thanks to everyone that replied so far. The feedback is good info. I'm going to keep comparing and patiently wait for Note 8 and new iPhones to come out. A switch to IOS is scary, and the size of the Iphone plus is absurd. That thing is huge!
Honestly I have both and currently hate my iPhone. The loopholes in order to just get a custom icon set is enough for me to miss Android lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IPhone does win in getting OS updates. For Android it's the pixel/nexus devices. The s7 edge maybe behind in getting the updates but Samsung is innovative with what they put in TouchWiz/grace ui. IPhone is locked down and you can't customize it at all. It comes down to personal preference.
Example: Pixel got multi window with 7.0 but yet Galaxy devices have had that feature for years. Galaxy devices have and support themes. Samsung pay is better than Android pay. Point is that Samsung devices already have some features of Android 7.0
Also if you buy a s7/s7 edge and hate all the bloatware then just flash g935u firmware on it which gets the updates straight from Samsung and not the carrier.
The only negative thing I'll say after having the s7 edge since launch and coming from a nexus 5 is not being able to unlock the bootloader. I wish I could unlock the bootloader and flash an AOSP rom on my S7 Edge. But I'm gonna stick with this phone for like 2 years (or the Note 8 and get it black Friday 2017) and my next phone will be another Samsung device. I'll make sure my next it has an unlock bootloader so I may have to import the European version if Samsung keeps locking down the US phones. Only the s7 edge g935f European version can unlock the bootloader and run custom roms.
But I've been fine with no root. You can root the US version but the kernel is horrible. Your phone will overheat, lag, and have battery drain issues. So I flashed my S7 Edge to stock non-root g935u firmware a long time ago with the Verizon modem/radio. Plus to use Samsung pay, chase and other apps, you can't have root which I've been using so I'm loving since the first day I got it.
You mention speed test and I can tell you my phone is lag free and runs great including multi tasking in real world. My wife has an iPhone 6s plus and both of our phones run great.
IPhone, galaxy, pixel/nexus: all these phones have their pros and cons and it all comes down to personal preference.
looney2388 said:
IPhone does win in getting OS updates. For Android it's the pixel/nexus devices. The s7 edge maybe behind in getting the updates but Samsung is innovative with what they put in TouchWiz/grace ui. IPhone is locked down and you can't customize it at all. It comes down to personal preference.
Example: Pixel got multi window with 7.0 but yet Galaxy devices have had that feature for years. Galaxy devices have and support themes. Samsung pay is better than Android pay. Point is that Samsung devices already have some features of Android 7.0
Also if you buy a s7/s7 edge and hate all the bloatware then just flash g935u firmware on it which gets the updates straight from Samsung and not the carrier.
The only negative thing I'll say after having the s7 edge since launch and coming from a nexus 5 is not being able to unlock the bootloader. I wish I could unlock the bootloader and flash an AOSP rom on my S7 Edge. But I'm gonna stick with this phone for like 2 years (or the Note 8 and get it black Friday 2017) and my next phone will be another Samsung device. I'll make sure my next it has an unlock bootloader so I may have to import the European version if Samsung keeps locking down the US phones. Only the s7 edge g935f European version can unlock the bootloader and run custom roms.
But I've been fine with no root. You can root the US version but the kernel is horrible. Your phone will overheat, lag, and have battery drain issues. So I flashed my S7 Edge to stock non-root g935u firmware a long time ago with the Verizon modem/radio. Plus to use Samsung pay, chase and other apps, you can't have root which I've been using so I'm loving since the first day I got it.
You mention speed test and I can tell you my phone is lag free and runs great including multi tasking in real world. My wife has an iPhone 6s plus and both of our phones run great.
IPhone, galaxy, pixel/nexus: all these phones have their pros and cons and it all comes down to personal preference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you get for battery life after flashing the 935u?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
liquidraven said:
What do you get for battery life after flashing the 935u?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's screenshots of what I'm getting for today.

My review of the Mate 9 and I am a self confessed Samsung Fanboy!!!

See my signature below for the range of phones I have owned, that is: every Galaxy Note including the Edge (except the Note 5 as it wasn't available in the UK), every Galaxy S series phone since the S3 and many other Samsung phones, tablets and smartwatches!! So pretty much into Samsung you could say!
So, I was reading an article about the best phones of 2016/17 to date and obviously the S7 Edge was up there along with various others including the Huawei Mate 9. I had never considered buying anything beyond Samsung, except maybe Sony, HTC and Google devices and really looked at Huawei as being a cheap and cheerful Chinese brand that couldn't possibly be of interest. But the article gave the Mate 9 a huge thumbs up. It got me curious.
I was due for an upgrade on my contract and was still grieving over the loss of my Note 7. I think my S7 Edge is a fantastic phone but it really lacks the big screen I was used to. So out of interest, I watched endless reviews of the Mate 9 and all I could hear was huge praise for it, with very little to complain of. I was interested in a big screened alternative and decided to give it a look over and order one.
After a few days with the Mate 9, I was so impressed and I mean REALLY impressed that my S7 Edge is now destined for eBay. Sure I will miss the Gear VR and wireless charging and... well nothing else really. So I spent a day or two transferring all my stuff over and installing all my apps and all that painstaking setup you do with a new phone. It all works flawlessly, even with my Gear S3. I love the big crisp screen, the impressive battery life, the camera, the design, the performance, the rapid fingerprint scanner and the little extra features not found on other phones. I love the IR blaster, stereo speakers and 64Gb+ storage and rapid charge. Yes, I can say that this beats the S7 Edge in most of my preferences and has convinced me there are other excellent phones out there not made by the top manufacturers for Western markets. Huawei has exceeded my expectations and I love that.
OK, when the Note 8 arrives later this year, I am probably going to jump ship again. Afterall I have always held the Note series as my ideal phone. But you know, I am still going to be keeping more of an eye out for what Huawei and Xiaomi have to offer too. If you are on the fence I say go for the Mate 9. It won't be a bad choice. Take it from a Samsung fanboy!
.
I agree.
It's the little extra things Huawei does, AND this one's quick!
You can tell the difference in screens though when you're playing certain games or watching videos side by side.
Otherwise, yes. Till the Note 8....
I'm the same that have been using Sammy phones from the S1 up to the Note 4 and stopped when the Sammy decided to take away that memory card slot. Then when the Note 7 announced with the coming back of the sd card with Note 7, I was destined to get that to replace the 4. Lucky I didn't ad I almost got the preorder if not for the stuff up of the telco of my order. Anyhow, the new phone itch got to me that I had to find one with the large screen like the Note. I'm extremely happy that I made the right choice in choosing the Mate 9 at the end.
Same here, and loving the Mate 9!
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Me too. Mate 9 should keep me happy until the Note 8 comes out.
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I totally agree with you, I was in the same boat. I had a Note 7 (which I loved), had to trade it in and get a S7 Edge, not what I wanted, mainly because the downgrade of internal storage space. If you are using a 64 GB phone and have to go to 32 GB you really notice it. I looked at the LG V20 or Pixel as an alternative but I just could not get into the look and feel of it for the V20 and the Pixel doesn’t take an SD Card which I need.
So Man I am glad I held out for the Mate 9 only thing I have to say I truly miss is the wireless charging (love being able to just pick my phone up from charging) and the many accessory options but other than that, I don’t miss anything else. Don’t miss the waterproofing or the actual edge panel like I thought I would (There’s an app for that).
This phone is amazing from the looks, speed, to little things like being able to swipe down on the fingerprint scanner to expand the notification bar, simply amazing. Only reason I haven’t sold my S7 Edge yet because of the rumored free S8 or discounted Note 8 because of the battery fire fiasco. Not sure if I’ll have to trade in my S7 edge or not for the deal. But I agree the Mate 9 is an AWESOME device.
ayinde6 said:
I totally agree with you, I was in the same boat. I had a Note 7 (which I loved), had to trade it in and get a S7 Edge, not what I wanted, mainly because the downgrade of internal storage space. If you are using a 64 GB phone and have to go to 32 GB you really notice it. I looked at the LG V20 or Pixel as an alternative but I just could not get into the look and feel of it for the V20 and the Pixel doesn’t take an SD Card which I need.
So Man I am glad I held out for the Mate 9 only thing I have to say I truly miss is the wireless charging (love being able to just pick my phone up from charging) and the many accessory options but other than that, I don’t miss anything else. Don’t miss the waterproofing or the actual edge panel like I thought I would (There’s an app for that).
This phone is amazing from the looks, speed, to little things like being able to swipe down on the fingerprint scanner to expand the notification bar, simply amazing. Only reason I haven’t sold my S7 Edge yet because of the rumored free S8 or discounted Note 8 because of the battery fire fiasco. Not sure if I’ll have to trade in my S7 edge or not for the deal. But I agree the Mate 9 is an AWESOME device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah we pretty much think alike.
I was never under the impression that we would get a better deal on the S8 or Note 8 as ex Note 7 customers though. I am guessing it depends on your country, the supplier and/or whether you directly traded in the Note 7 for the S7E. I got a refund then went to Argos to buy the S7E as it was cheaper by £100!
Where did you hear about this deal? Also I doubt that they would need you to prove you still owned the phone, just that you actually purchased it in the first place.
But yeah, the Mate 9 is a far better alternative (for now) than the S7E if you want a powerful featured large screen phone.
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apprentice said:
Yeah we pretty much think alike.
I was never under the impression that we would get a better deal on the S8 or Note 8 as ex Note 7 customers though. I am guessing it depends on your country, the supplier and/or whether you directly traded in the Note 7 for the S7E. I got a refund then went to Argos to buy the S7E as it was cheaper by £100!
Where did you hear about this deal? Also I doubt that they would need you to prove you still owned the phone, just that you actually purchased it in the first place.
But yeah, the Mate 9 is a far better alternative (for now) than the S7E if you want a powerful featured large screen phone.
.
Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was pretty much a rumor around the time the whole Note 7 ordeal took place, I haven't heard anything lately, but I am sure it will surface again once the S8 is released but I read it here initially: http://www.androidheadlines.com/201...ning-free-galaxy-s8-for-note-7-customers.html
and http://phandroid.com/2016/10/24/samsung-galaxy-s8-discounts-for-note-7/
How does starting a text work on the gear S3 with the Mate 9? I'm about to upgrade my wife from the Samsung J7 to this phone and was thinking about getting one for myself as well I currently have the S7 edge. I love wireless charging but I can give it up, I do use Samsung pay but honestly not enough to miss. My biggest problem with switching would be the compatibility with the watch. Any help with that would be greatly appreciated
kratos313 said:
My biggest problem with switching would be the compatibility with the watch. Any help with that would be greatly appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://forum.xda-developers.com/mate-9/help/gear-s3-mate-9-t3547588/page2
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA Labs
Exactly the same figure here. Coming from Note 1,2,3,4,5 and 7, when I had to return my loved beast, got a S7E, but did not like it, mainly because of the smaller screen. But the fire thing with the N7 was good for us because we could finally think about other brands like Huawei and its wonderful Mate 9. I am very impressed with all those "small features" like turning apps off just after locking the device, giving us the option to choose which apps will be turned off.
I just did not like the firmware update service from Huawei. I bought my phone in another country and it seems the only method I can use to upgrade the firmware if by funky huawei, which is a paid service, fortunately provided by a XDA member. But this is something we had for free with Sammy (not so fast indeed).
cabtouch said:
Exactly the same figure here. Coming from Note 1,2,3,4,5 and 7, when I had to return my loved beast, got a S7E, but did not like it, mainly because of the smaller screen. But the fire thing with the N7 was good for us because we could finally think about other brands like Huawei and its wonderful Mate 9. I am very impressed with all those "small features" like turning apps off just after locking the device, giving us the option to choose which apps will be turned off.
I just did not like the firmware update service from Huawei. I bought my phone in another country and it seems the only method I can use to upgrade the firmware if by funky huawei, which is a paid service, fortunately provided by a XDA member. But this is something we had for free with Sammy (not so fast indeed).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get OTAs if you get a SIM from the region of your phone.
Thanks. Yeah I know. But for some regions like mine (Latin America) it seems there is not any update newer than B110, from November. So I had to rebrand my phone to the European model. OK, it is still the best phone I had, pairing only with the much missed Note 7.
kratos313 said:
How does starting a text work on the gear S3 with the Mate 9? I'm about to upgrade my wife from the Samsung J7 to this phone and was thinking about getting one for myself as well I currently have the S7 edge. I love wireless charging but I can give it up, I do use Samsung pay but honestly not enough to miss. My biggest problem with switching would be the compatibility with the watch. Any help with that would be greatly appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You simply open the contacts app on the watch, select recipient and you can either call or text. When you select text, it opens up a compose box with the keyboard. Works well from my experience. I was concerned my Gear S3 wouldn't work as well with a non Samsung device, but so far no issues at all. You will need to install S-Health on your phone (if you use that) and for texting, the best app is Textra (which is pretty much the best SMS app for Android anyway! ) The stock one allows notifications but doesn't allow you to reply from the watch whereas Textra does.
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Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk
After using it for a few weeks, I'm going to sell mine and go back to my Note 5. While it's a good temp phone, it;s not for me and I'll just stick with Samsung. I have the Chinese 6/128 that was rebranded to EU L29-c432b138
apprentice said:
You simply open the contacts app on the watch, select recipient and you can either call or text. When you select text, it opens up a compose box with the keyboard. Works well from my experience. I was concerned my Gear S3 wouldn't work as well with a non Samsung device, but so far no issues at all. You will need to install S-Health on your phone (if you use that) and for texting, the best app is Textra (which is pretty much the best SMS app for Android anyway! ) The stock one allows notifications but doesn't allow you to reply from the watch whereas Textra does.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK
I had tried Textra awhile back on my S7 edge and it wouldn't let me start a text on my S3 told me I had to use the stock app . I'm not a fan of the stock app that much there's somethings Textra does better.
I'm still on the fence if I'm going to upgrade to the Mate 9 from my S7 honestly.
The mate's battery life is the main thing that draws me in..
At this stage of the game may as well just wait for the s8 and see what that brings.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk
kratos313 said:
OK
I had tried Textra awhile back on my S7 edge and it wouldn't let me start a text on my S3 told me I had to use the stock app . I'm not a fan of the stock app that much there's somethings Textra does better.
I'm still on the fence if I'm going to upgrade to the Mate 9 from my S7 honestly.
The mate's battery life is the main thing that draws me in..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you use a Samsung phone with the watch then it will nag you to use the stock app. But Textra works flawlessly with the Mate 9 and Gear S3 (Huawei's stock messaging app doesn't)
As I said, you've nothing to fear using this phone/watch combination. I am doing well with both
.
Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk
hackdrag0n said:
At this stage of the game may as well just wait for the s8 and see what that brings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not if the s8 is gonna be close to the rumored $1000 that's crazy.
aknotts415 said:
Not if the s8 is gonna be close to the rumored $1000 that's crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well we won't know for a month but yeah wouldn't surprise me - Note 7 was pretty expensive as well.
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