Related
Hi there people,
I've started a petition in Change.org hopping that Microsoft listen to it.
Let me be clear about it:
I am not asking to neutralize Metro, as I understand it is the only way to have a proper Windows, fully funtional, into a Touch device, such tablets or laptops.
I am only asking to let us decide if we want Metro activated or not in Desktop PCs. Today's world is made of decisions. Let us decide on our own what we want.
We will all have the same Kernel, same core and same quality and performance, and being able to choose interface, will add the best experience for each one of us: the one we trully want.
Please sign the petition, and make it reach Microsoft.
Thank u very much.
http://www.change.org/petitions/microsoft-company-allow-to-disable-or-decide-whether-we-want-metro-interface-or-not
PS: I couldn' find Microsoft e-mail from Redmond or similar, if anyone has it, please PM me, and I'll add it to the petition.
Thanks. I've tried the Consumer Preview and couldn't agree more. Signed.
nodjack said:
Thanks. I've tried the Consumer Preview and couldn't agree more. Signed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Little by Little, lets change it and improve Windows! thanks!
If you can't accept Metro then stay with Windows 7, simple as that. Support for Win7 has been extended till 2020 so there is no need to move on to Windows 8 if you don't like its interface.
I am not against Metro, I like it, but against HOW they implemented it for desktop PCs. For tablets and netbooks or smaller notebooks with touchscreen it's actually realy great.
The point is the missing harmony between the old styled windows desktop you are using the most time if you are at home or at work and the new Metro UI, espacily the switching between the two modes and the implemantation of elemental functions like the system settings.
It's like an interuption if you "click" start. I am not against a new type of "start menu/screen" but it should fit the design and "feeling". It should support the (desktop)user in his work. In the current way this is not possible. The Metro surface allows to pin this realy nice live tiles (I realy like them!)... but if I push the start button I want to start a new application to do some work.
Ok, I can pin my favourite applications on the screen like I did with Windows 7 by pinning my mostly used programs to the start screen. But some applications I am using are changing by time so i enjoy the feature of the dynamical menu entries of frequently used programs like in vista and 7. If I want the same quick program launch on Metro I have to pin a lot of tiles to the screen and the live tiles become obsolete because they are somewhere right out of the screen.
They could have done it so much better...
the best way (in my oppinion) for desktops would have been to
a) chose between metro on - metro off
or
b)go much further:
1. consistent design (colors, icons, fonts,...)
2. pin live tiles on the desktop (like on metro start screen, maybe with a smaller size) or the taskbar (only with the notification, no messages, like it's done on MacOS or the IE9)
3. run Metro styled apps in a new kind of window including the buttons from the charmbar (share, search, settings). so all this "swiping" (with a mouse!) is not necesary but you get some kind of consistence between the usability of tablets, deskopts, and phone but keep the simple task management from windows.
4. a start menu mix between the old one and the search dialog from Metro.
Hm... just noticed my english sucks to express my rage about win 8 xD
Maybe I should run Photoshop and make some concepts how it should look
morpheuszg said:
If you can't accept Metro then stay with Windows 7, simple as that. Support for Win7 has been extended till 2020 so there is no need to move on to Windows 8 if you don't like its interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it so hard to add an option to get both interfaces ? Just to keep everybody happy and updated.
I don't think so.
I like the new kernel, about a 25% smaller, very fast and better working. I don't wanna miss that, but I am totally against buying a new Touch Monitor only for using Win 8.
That's too much for me. And if u take a look over some forums, we are many who think the same.
plus there are some nice new features in windows 8
Plus, I'd love to be able to sync between Win 8 without Metro on my desktop and Win 8 on my future tablet with Metro.
So yeah, staying on Windows 7 is a poor solution.
lol...trust me, this won't make any difference. Half of the internet doesn't like Metro (myself included).
Microsoft know this...they are aware of what people are saying, but they won't change it.
the_scotsman said:
Microsoft know this...they are aware of what people are saying, but they won't change it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I (and others) will vote with my wallet. Hopefully Microsoft will change it for win9. I don't see how win8 is better than win7. Anything new is metro related, which is useless for desktop.
P. S.
I switched to Kubuntu on one of my computers already. It has all I need.
I find Windows 8 is boooting up and running faster than Windows 7.
There is a lot more than just Metro that's changed. The kernel has been improved for one thing.
Yeah.. Voting with my wallet sounds about right. Not digging the demo builds right now.
Microsoft has this knack for screwing the pooch on revolutionary software. Lets face it, 2002 was basically updated NT4 and XP took that and stuff that ACTUALLY work from WinME.. Not there was. Vista was the first "new" Windows in a while. And Win7 is still version 6 [dot something]. Any OS that has been successful also had decent hardware to back it up.
That being said... This is a preview build. MS have heavily inferred they are giving someyhing that is nothing like the RTM. Well for PCs at least.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
What I cannot understand is why Microsoft, in the past, launched about 10 or so versions of windows 7 ( Enterprise, Home Premium, Starter, Profesional, Ultimate, Enterprise N, Home Premium N, Profesional N, Ultimate N... etc ) and now, when they really need to add One more version with Normal Desktop added in kernel, they decide not to do it.
It's a pity, but there's going to be a lot of people staying in Win 7 or migrating to Linux or Mac.
You know Metro isnt your only option right, you can go to desktop mode as well?
I haven't tried the consumer preview, but I used the developer preview extensively, and I remember that there was a registry key you could modify and get the win7 interface back...
krapplejaxx said:
I haven't tried the consumer preview, but I used the developer preview extensively, and I remember that there was a registry key you could modify and get the win7 interface back...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't work on the Consumer Preview. All the Windows 7 Start Menu bits have been removed from this build.
andrew2163 said:
You know Metro isnt your only option right, you can go to desktop mode as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a white lie. When you pick desktop mode you dont get same desktop as always. You get a reduced version without stat button.
And in new desktop you get instead 4 motion-reactive corners that, for instance in some FPS games just sucks and bothers all the time.
Thats the desktop you get: a reduced, corner-active,weird version of what real desktop was.
Lie to yourself not to us.
i dont get it,
the desktop is still there , right? so why this petition.
dont like metro, dont use metro apps!
---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
xatornet said:
That's a white lie. When you pick desktop mode you dont get same desktop as always. You get a reduced version without stat button.
And in new desktop you get instead 4 motion-reactive corners that, for instance in some FPS games just sucks and bothers all the time.
Thats the desktop you get: a reduced, corner-active,weird version of what real desktop was.
Lie to yourself not to us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
, desktop is there, window app function like it always has , start menu is there, just lil a bit hidden and replace with metro theme. OMG you sound like whining for nothing.
dialupboy said:
desktop is there, window app function like it always has , start menu is there, just lil a bit hidden and replace with metro theme. OMG you sound like whining for nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Start menu? No. Metro is not start menu. And the petition is to ADD a selection of kind of interface, not to erase Metro. Read it first, and then start spitting your thoughts.
I do not want to have a "bit hidden and replaced" start menu. I like it as it was before, because it defined Windows as Operative System. What we are having now is a weird mixture of Windows Phone and Xbox Dashboard, which is wonderfull for Tablets, but a complete sh*t for Desktops with keyboard and mouse.
If you like metro, allright, keep it, but why not having an option to get traditional start menu? Would it be so hard to get questioned at installation whether I want it or not?
I am asking to add something more to the OS, not to erase something from it.
And if my whining bothers you, feel free to get out of this thread and visit different ones. Thanks.
have you tried using the hot key short cuts? or navigating metro by typing the app name you are looking for? I take it both are likely no. I'm telling you Metro isn't just for touch screens, a power user can navigate it quickly with no trouble, and it's a lot easier than searching through an endless list of programs in the start menu. If you want 8 and the start menu just add http://www.vistastartmenu.com/ MS shouldn't stop trying to revolutionize the way we use computers over people who want to hold on to the old way. Touch screens are becoming increasingly more common, smart phones and tablets are changing the way people learn to interact with software, and Microsoft is headed in the direction it should be.
PREVIOUS POST:
Hi all!
My post should be in the developer page, but since I have less than 10 posts I'll post it here. Hope someone'll read it, I think it may be useful to everybody. BTW sorry for my poor english.
I am a user of Windows 8 from the developer preview, and I learned to appreciate the new Start Page and get used to.
The only thing that makes it still "just bearable" to me is the poor (more like nonexistent) non-metro applications customization. I understand that Windows wants developers to create Metro Apps, but their usability on a desktop PC does not fully not convince me; for some uses I prefer a thousand times to use the classic applications.
The question is: how to get the tiles to the classic desktop applications more pleasing than a monochromatic square with an icon?
I started to look far and wide on the Internet, finding not that much (really this does not affect anyone?), but I found something, something (even right in this site).
I've thought about three different ways of solving this problem. Since it's a little bit tl;dr i'll organize them under quotes.
1- An app that opens programs
- it is relatively easy to modify images of Metro Tiles for metro applications already installed, just follow this guide.
- For those who have knowledge of programming C + +, Javascript, or, generically, any language to Visual Basic, creating a tile for your application is extremely easy, so easy even I did it (I don't know programming, sadly). Still, nobody yet has thought to create standard desktop applications with these tiles, even Microsoft itself (Visual Studio RC hasn't got it!).
- I know that Metro Apps work a bit like the sandbox, but you can set the permissions to access images, documents and so on, so should not be impossible to make up a "double bounce" (metro app that opens a link in the Documents which opens the user desktop) without slowing down too the opening of the original program. I do not think is too complex, yet I can not do it alone.
- Also, an xda user found a way to bypass the sandbox and HERE someone (looks like the only one on the ENTIRE internet, apart from me) wondered about this problem and tried to solve this by itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2- The icon, centered and bigger
- a simple and elegant solution: can't we just edit the registry to bring up the icon in the middle of the tiles and change as well as the size of it equal to the tile itself? Then we should just make bigger icons for programs large enough to not be pixelated.
I searched a bit in regedit on:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER \ Software \ Microsoft \ Windows \ CurrentVersion \ ImmersiveShell \ Grid
However, I found "only" how to enlarge or shrink the tile itself or the number of these files. There are a lot of other data but does not have competence to understand the setup.
Seems the easiest way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3- Copying from Google
As you surely know Google has launched the Google Chrome metro interface, with some special features:
- The program does not come from the Windows App Store, but can be downloaded from the Chromium Project site, therefore, is installed in the usual place of Chrome (User / AppData / Local) and not in the folder WindowsApps. This is quite unusual, because I thought it was the "exclusive" folder for metro applications;
- From my analysis I understood that the application that starts, both in desktop and Metro look, is always the same, "chrome.exe". To confirm this I noticed that, in fact, the folder "Metro" in "Google Chrome" folder contains only the userdata files and not specific ones for the program, which instead are contained by the classic Chrome folder;
- I'm pretty sure that all Google Chrome files are in this folder, since I found inside the "Manifest" and the images for the tiles. Trying to change the PNG and cleaning the cache also changed the tile in the Start bar.
- The first step, too simple for it to be working ( ) was to copy the manifest and the images folder in the folder of another program (obviously changing the directory on the manifest through Notepad), clearing the cache and restarting the PC. It did not work, of course.
- The next step was to open the folder "C: \ Users \ MYUSERPROFILE \ AppData \ Roaming \ Microsoft \ Windows \ Start Menu \ Programs" and try to understand more of nature of the link to Google Chrome...Only to find out that the link to Chrome was not there! ... Does anyone know where it is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's all. There is still nobody in the world that seems to manage a tweak for having tiles in non-metro applications, so if someone here manages to do this he'll be like the first in the ENTIRE WORLD
Hope this motivates you. I hope to read something from you developers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The user Argony-OT has found a solution to add metro tiles in the start page for common legacy application. Link to his thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1899865
Otinademoniac said:
Hi all!
My post should be in the developer page, but since I have less than 10 posts I'll post it here. Hope someone'll read it, I think it may be useful to everybody. BTW sorry for my poor english.
I am a user of Windows 8 from the developer preview, and I learned to appreciate the new Start Page and get used to.
The only thing that makes it still "just bearable" to me is the poor (more like nonexistent) non-metro applications customization. I understand that Windows wants developers to create Metro Apps, but their usability on a desktop PC does not fully not convince me; for some uses I prefer a thousand times to use the classic applications.
The question is: how to get the tiles to the classic desktop applications more pleasing than a monochromatic square with an icon?
I started to look far and wide on the Internet, finding not that much (really this does not affect anyone?), but I found something, something (even right in this site).
I've thought about three different ways of solving this problem. Since it's a little bit tl;dr i'll organize them under quotes.
1- An app that opens programs
2- The icon, centered and bigger
3- Copying from Google
And that's all. There is still nobody in the world that seems to manage a tweak for having tiles in non-metro applications, so if someone here manages to do this he'll be like the first in the ENTIRE WORLD
Hope this motivates you. I hope to read something from you developers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would think that Microsoft would give a way for Google to bypass the restriction on side-loading (for verified developers like Google or the like) if they requested (Of course, they could also have found a way to install Metro Applications without the developers license/enterprise requirement, etc.)
This is probably how it works since the Metro application is not in the usual Installation folder. It is something to wonder about though.
My god! Me and my friend are having this same problem with windows 8! We like the metro menu a lot, but we want to customize non metro program tiles!! We can make some pretty cool images for the tiles, but we just dont know how to change the tiles. I think ur on to something with Google chrome though! I hope some can figure this out! Ur not the only one who wants this!
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
bb12489 said:
My god! Me and my friend are having this same problem with windows 8! We like the metro menu a lot, but we want to customize non metro program tiles!! We can make some pretty cool images for the tiles, but we just dont know how to change the tiles. I think ur on to something with Google chrome though! I hope some can figure this out! Ur not the only one who wants this!
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that I haven't got enough knowledge (not as much as my dedication to the cause ) to really do something with this...I am kinda searching for some help from XDA Developers
Same problem here
I'm also having the same problems on Windows 8. I'm also finding a way to change the default traditional app icons to the metro look, like what google do. Hmmmm.... Microsoft should add a feature to change default non-metro icons to non-metro tiles.
What's weird is that, as someone made me notice, if you make Google Chrome (the W8 version) the default browser for Metro instead of Internet Explorer, IE loses it's metro icon and become a normal Windows monocoloured tile. It's weird enough for making me think that the "copy Google" way is a bit harder than expected.
On the other hand, I've got a friend of mine searching in Windows 8 resources for a way to enlarge and center icons in Start Scren. Nowadays all the icons are big and detailed enough to fit inside a tile, and if they don't we can always make our own. I think that this is actually the easiest way.
Anyone have any clue that might help the cause? Also, since I still have less than 10 post, might someone link this thread in the Windows 8 hacking-developer forum?
Otinademoniac said:
What's weird is that, as someone made me notice, if you make Google Chrome (the W8 version) the default browser for Metro instead of Internet Explorer, IE loses it's metro icon and become a normal Windows monocoloured tile. It's weird enough for making me think that the "copy Google" way is a bit harder than expected.
On the other hand, I've got a friend of mine searching in Windows 8 resources for a way to enlarge and center icons in Start Scren. Nowadays all the icons are big and detailed enough to fit inside a tile, and if they don't we can always make our own. I think that this is actually the easiest way.
Anyone have any clue that might help the cause? Also, since I still have less than 10 post, might someone link this thread in the Windows 8 hacking-developer forum?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what might cause it, but I know that it's a behavior that's been there since Developers Preview, after setting Chrome as the default browser it would go away, Even when I set the older chrome versions as default it would do it.
Still nothing...! This is quite frustrating, I'm searching really deeply a way to edit the METRO UI, but nothing yet found. Any help?
The way I think would be easier is to center and make bigger the Icon inside the Metro Tiles. I'm trying to use a Resource Editor in windows, but I haven't found anything yet.
Hi, I'm (obviously) new here.
I actually joined just to try and help figure this very issue out.
1. I actually noticed about an hour ago (when installing Firefox) the change that occurred with the Metro tile for IE, changing to a default tile. Your post made me chuckle, as I had literally just done that very thing. It was as if IE felt unloved. :laugh:
2. I am a designer. The ability to not change these tiles right now is killing me from the inside! I could easily set some color values or make my own icons in Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop and then make new metro-esque tiles the way I want for nearly all my apps in no time.
So, with all of that said... I too shall be looking into how we can manage making our own tiles for non-metro apps.
I wonder (and this is a cheap cheap fix) if one were to design an application icon for say, Firefox, and it would be the actual size & dimension of the pre-fixed metro square...would that icon fill the sqaure and at least give the appearance of being a metro app? It may, but I fear it might just down-size the icon entirely leaving us at square one.
All my design programs are on my OS X hard drives. Later I'll plug them back in, then re-boot my hackintosh and try to make a fill-in metro styled icon for testing purposes.
-TYPØ
Hi TYPOGRAPH1C, sadly changing the icon size won't work, nowadays almost every application icon for Windows have a resolution big enough to fit more than just the METRO tile; sadly, it's still not working.
Also, I've tried (withouth success) another experiment: In the "Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu" folder you can find the links for some of the METRO APP; those icons are from a DLL! I've tried to simply copy one of those in another folder and make a legacy program use it, but it didn't work. I guess is one way less to try
That is unfortunate. And, who knows this may be something we can't fully tackle until the full release of the OS. But, I do know that I went through yesterday and counted 30+ apps that I personally would like to make icons for. Mainly the general stuff I use, but a lot of them are things many people use as well. So between now and the finalized OS release, I should have them all done. And if worst case, we can never set the tiles ourselves... at least I'd rock some custom metro style icons on my taskbar.
But if we do get this working... I was actually thinking last night about this. If we were able to achieve the correct look for the tile icons, I suppose it would be 100% possible to have practically nothing living on the taskbar in Windows 8 (besides the current open desktop application). Everything could be bound to the Start Menu and grouped accordingly in theory.
-TYPØ
I am also looking for a solution. I really want all my programs to have the tile icon.
What i already did is make a white icon for some programs and then specify it as the icon.
Like this you have the icon in the tile (downsized ofc) but the tile itself isn't filled with a background color.
I looks better than the full colored icons from before but i still want the whole metro tile look.
Otinademoniac said:
Hi all!
3- Copying from Google
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can read all about "metro enabled desktop browsers" when you get some free time. It's a cool idea, but unfortunately, you can only have one.
Could someone who knows how to make Tiles not make a custom tile app that can then handle custom image and file path, so we just update the details within the app so it points the the right place? So we could install the placeholder with the new set details and pop the icons are Larg and Small and offer booting the exe?
I have NO idea how to make tiles but I just thought maybe that could be a way?
rexzooly said:
Could someone who knows how to make Tiles not make a custom tile app that can then handle custom image and file path, so we just update the details within the app so it points the the right place? So we could install the placeholder with the new set details and pop the icons are Larg and Small and offer booting the exe?
I have NO idea how to make tiles but I just thought maybe that could be a way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Phone has custom tile apps...Wiztiles is one I use. A user can create custom tiles using pictures they have on their phone. These tiles can then be used to link to specific functions. The function I use it for is to point to websites. You can have it open many of the built in apps on WinPhone. It will open email and draft a new email for you with contact, subject and even the body of the mail drafted...all you have o do is hit send, or edit then send. Same with sms. It can be used to dial a contact or perform a search in the marketplace or Bing app. So it doesn't just open an app, it opens and performs an initial action in the app. Not sure how much of a leap it would be to have it point to 3rd party apps, but the basic idea is there.
The website the OP posted which was this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9527644/launching-a-desktop-application-with-a-metro-style-app actually does have a method on creating an app to launch a desktop app if anyone wants to try it. Me I'm not that great with code.
a tip for hex editors, just DUI hackers: twinui.dll UIFILES.
I think that it's possible, because you can open internet explorer desktop from internet explorer immersive
@Ka-la I've tried some time ago, but twinui.dll get corrupted... (Next time I will retry )
Pasquiindustry said:
I think that it's possible, because you can open internet explorer desktop from internet explorer immersive
@Ka-la I've tried some time ago, but twinui.dll get corrupted... (Next time I will retry )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I managed to size content in my tiles in RTM pretty succesfully, not sure why you corrupt it. Im not using Windows 8 at the moment so I cannot really help. I remember there were templates for many variant of tiles (widewithpicture and smallwithpicture and so on). If there is one for that applies to desktop apps, it might be possible to apply a metro one to it
I'll give it a shot once im using Windows 8 but cant promise anything.
Maybe i had wrong edits in wrong place
Can anyone tell me when / why I want to use desktop mode (I've got a Surface for Windows RT)?
I know the Office apps force you there. Otherwise, is it only when I want to hit up the control panel or Explorer?
Is there anything else to do in Desktop mode?
Also, stupid question, but is there any way to launch an app (other than the 5 pinned to the taskbar) directly in desktop mode?
When you don't have a tablet?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
JihadSquad said:
When you don't have a tablet?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I should have specified, I'm asking about the Surface for Windows RT
I think when Microsoft releases the next visual studio it will be compatible with rt in desktop mode. Also you have calculator, paint etc. on the desktop.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
I believe Desktop mode is short term legacy support. Should disappear in the next version of RT.
junialum said:
I believe Desktop mode is short term legacy support. Should disappear in the next version of RT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And quite possibly in a couple iterations of Windows itself...
Thanks.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Windows explorer? IE with addons? Control Panel?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
junialum said:
I believe Desktop mode is short term legacy support. Should disappear in the next version of RT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JihadSquad said:
And quite possibly in a couple iterations of Windows itself...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Desktop mode is never going to be phased out, "legacy" is just a marketing ploy to accentuate that the new UI is "modernUI".
Desktop mode is for desktop things. Like when you plug a keyboard and mouse into your Surface, and you browse the internet with IE desktop and manage your files with explorer or use office. The full functions of office could never and will never be crammed into an app: it would violate the simplicity/stylistic/touchfriendly guidelines.
Desktop will never be phased out of RT or Windows, I don't know why people think this.
Other things to use Desktop Mode for:
Scripting (CMD, Powershell, etc.).
Proper multitasking (more than two windows at once).
Task Manager.
Advanced management tools (Management console and all its snap-ins, diskpart and netsh and other command-line tools, etc.).
IE developer tools.
Setting up file and folder sharing.
anything else that apps can't do...
Oh, and (especially once we get this working better), running existing apps that have ben recompiled for ARM.
link68759 said:
Desktop mode is for desktop things. Like when you plug a keyboard and mouse into your Surface, and you browse the internet with IE desktop and manage your files with explorer or use office. The full functions of office could never and will never be crammed into an app: it would violate the simplicity/stylistic/touchfriendly guidelines.
Desktop will never be phased out of RT or Windows, I don't know why people think this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's how I've been using it. I picked up a bluetooth mouse that works nicely without a dongle. I used desktop mode to copy some files around - it was nice. I plan to use Remote Apps and some other stuff that will only work well in desktop mode.
Its nice. I can switch back and forth with ease. Some things (content consumption with ass parked on a couch) are easier with the don't-call-it-metro mode and some things (content creation/manipulation while sitting at a desk) are easier to do in desktop mode. I can't do that with any of my iOS or Android tablets. Because of this, I see desktop mode as an advantage WinRT has over iOS and Android. Neither of those have anything similar and probably never will have.
But hey - don't like desktop mode? Don't use it.
I see the don't-call-it-metro mode and desktop mode as similar to the way DOS and Windows used to be. Win95/NT/2000 was nice, but sometimes you just needed to drop into DOS to do some things easier. I still use ipconfig /all quite a bit now that I am thinking about it.
I sincerely hope desktop mode is never phased out. I can't imagine why it would be - DOS Command Prompt is still around after all these years and it still has its uses.
Just to clarify, because this is a pet peeve of mine: THAT IS NOT DOS! It is a command-line shell which emulates certain portions of the DOS user interface and, on 32-bit machines, also the DOS API... but it's not DOS. CMD can do all kinds of things that DOS can't, ranging from UI features like path or command completion to system capabilities like running apps in the background (DOS had no multitasking capability). 32-bit builds of Windows NT (including 2000, XP, Vista, Win7, and Win8, plus corresponding server builds, which all use NT) include NTVDM - the NT Virtual DOS Machine - for running 16-bit DOS apps with emulated hardware (DOS granted full access to the hardware for any app; NT doesn't, so it had to provide virtual hardware for compatibility). NTVDM will *claim* to be a version of DOS, for compatibility's sake, but that's no more true than Wine on Linux claiming to be a version of Windows.
However, I absolutely agree that some things are best done in the command line. I actually rather dislike CMD; its command completion sucks, its scripting language is lame, its quotation parsing rules are bizarre and archaic, and it's missing some capabilities such as what you get from `command-goes-here` on POSIX shells. On versions of Windows which can run it, I prefer to use bash via SUA; on versions which can't, Cygwin is an almost-acceptable alternative. I'm slowly learning Powershell (accelerated somewhat by the fact that the Surface RT has both CMD and Powershell, but neither SUA nor Cygwin) as well; it's very powerful but its scripting syntax feels weird to me and the software itself is very heavyweight and tends to run slowly at times (such as when loading new modules).
GoodDayToDie said:
Just to clarify, because this is a pet peeve of mine: THAT IS NOT DOS! .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... I know... But its much easier to type DOS than it is to type "a command-line shell which emulates certain portions of the DOS user interface and, on 32-bit machines, also the DOS API..." Don't you agree?
or "CMD", "CLI", "command line", "command-line interface", "terminal", "command prompt", "TUI", "text user interface", "text shell", "cmd.exe", "powershell", even "NTVDM", ...
Sorry, totally off-topic, I know. It's just frustrating when people claim that 'Windows is just a graphical interface over DOS" (hasn't been true since the early 90s) or 'Windows is still built on a DOS core" (hasn't been true since ME), or "Windows still includes a copy of DOS" (not true at all for 64-bit or ARM or Itanium or anything other than x86, and arguable even there). To people who actually heavily used (or, haven forbid, still use) DOS, or have old DOS apps they need to run, that just results in problems which, annoyingly often, I end up needing to solve. It would help a lot of people who knew better didn't perpetuate the untruths.
Oh, and back on-topic: if you use desktop IE, you can add Tracking Protection lists (and edit the automatic one) and also enable ActiveX filtering (which might not be needed on RT due to its limited Flash list and lack of many other plug-ins, but I still prefer it).
Well I came by this notebook Asus Q200E by accident. I was helping a fellow worker by setting up this notebook for his wife's Christmas present. I was taking it back to work and i didn't latch the box properly and the notebook flew out onto my driveway. Now I'm the proud owner of this Notebook with windows 8. Nothing broke it just bunged up two edges. I have been playing around with this windows 8 mess and I have to say i'm not impressed. I have been tweaking the hell out of this start page. I already killed over half the tiles so they wont open. So i just uninstalled them all and found more in the store.Which is still lacking but I'm sure will grow. That is if Microsoft doesn't decide it isn't a good idea and pull the whole works in a year or two. They have a habit of doing that. Anyway does anyone have any experiance with going back to windows 7 on a windows 8 notebook? Windows 8 seems to be a service pack to 7 with a overlayed start interface.
splatoid said:
Well I came by this notebook Asus Q200E by accident. I was helping a fellow worker by setting up this notebook for his wife's Christmas present. I was taking it back to work and i didn't latch the box properly and the notebook flew out onto my driveway. Now I'm the proud owner of this Notebook with windows 8. Nothing broke it just bunged up two edges. I have been playing around with this windows 8 mess and I have to say i'm not impressed. I have been tweaking the hell out of this start page. I already killed over half the tiles so they wont open. So i just uninstalled them all and found more in the store.Which is still lacking but I'm sure will grow. That is if Microsoft doesn't decide it isn't a good idea and pull the whole works in a year or two. They have a habit of doing that. Anyway does anyone have any experiance with going back to windows 7 on a windows 8 notebook? Windows 8 seems to be a service pack to 7 with a overlayed start interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again dear Splatoid there is huge difference being made in windows 8 in comparative to windows 7 with boot optimization, source files, firewall native antivirus (windows defender) and many more
though u were having a little bitter experience with windows 8 new metro UI. which is little bit annoying in the start but windows 8 is far better in comparison to windows 7.
But rest depends on one individual's taste
I have been thinking I will just wait till a nod comes out to disable metro and then I can still run windows 8. There are things I like about the feel of it but just don't care for metro.
splatoid said:
I have been thinking I will just wait till a nod comes out to disable metro and then I can still run windows 8. There are things I like about the feel of it but just don't care for metro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ladies and Gentleman, i proudly present you StartIsBack, version 1.0!
http://www.startisback.com
Resized to 94% (was 1024 x 768) - Click image to enlargePosted Image
Short story: I've reinstated Windows 7 start menu without using any files from win7 and it's awesome. No Ex7forW8 limitations.
Long story: There is a problem with Metro on desktop. In fact, there are many:
- Removed Start Menu and other UI and voiding existing Windows skills and muscle memory
- Touch paradigm works bad for mouse
- Metro multi-tasking is breaking usual workflow and can be very annoying on desktop
- New Start Screen is not so cool and quickly becomes a mess unless you keep it clean, which is hard
So i've took the chances and i'm rethinking Win8 / Metro interface. That's what i've done:
Restored Desktop to its place With StartIsBack, computer starts to desktop. Always. Unlike other tools, which 'skip' Metro by sending keypresses, StartIsBack loads Metro alternative way and keeps it in its place.
Restored Windows 7 Start Menu and Start Button There are tons of start menu clones (check the thread here), but they're all inferior. StartIsBack restores original Windows 7 start menu (with very special magic). It's NOT a replica, it's 100% original Start Menu as you remember it, with search, drag&drop, customization, etc. Start Menu is shown on Win key, as you expect. Start button is behaving as you remember it.
Disabled hot corners By default, all but charms hot corners are disabled. You can customize which corners to show on desktop. And this works better than in any start menu clones i've tried.
Modified Start Screen Now, we have Start and Start. Start Menu and Start Screen. Both search and start programs. Isn't that schizophrenic? So! Start Screen is no longer Start Screen. It's Apps Screen and shows only Metro programs (optionally). This way, Metro and Desktop experience are separated and Start screen is just a launcher for funny Metro apps, while real work and programs run in Desktop.
Also not in your startmenu replacer No extra services running, no extra processes running, no files patched, no admin rights required, fully translated into your language.
Additional features
* You can close Start Screen with Alt-F4
* F3 on desktop launches standard search
* Press Ctrl+Win to invoke Start Screen (configurable)
* Choose start button orb from thousands of alternate ones
* Use msstyles with natively skinned start menu
So that's how i make Windows 8 desktop better.
Now, let's discuss and try beta. Rules for this topic:
* No Metro flamewars
* No off-topic
* No whining 'please restore this function from win7'
* Constructive concepts are welcome
---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------
shreshth89 said:
Ladies and Gentleman, i proudly present you StartIsBack, version 1.0!
http://www.startisback.com
Resized to 94% (was 1024 x 768) - Click image to enlargePosted Image
Short story: I've reinstated Windows 7 start menu without using any files from win7 and it's awesome. No Ex7forW8 limitations.
Long story: There is a problem with Metro on desktop. In fact, there are many:
- Removed Start Menu and other UI and voiding existing Windows skills and muscle memory
- Touch paradigm works bad for mouse
- Metro multi-tasking is breaking usual workflow and can be very annoying on desktop
- New Start Screen is not so cool and quickly becomes a mess unless you keep it clean, which is hard
So i've took the chances and i'm rethinking Win8 / Metro interface. That's what i've done:
Restored Desktop to its place With StartIsBack, computer starts to desktop. Always. Unlike other tools, which 'skip' Metro by sending keypresses, StartIsBack loads Metro alternative way and keeps it in its place.
Restored Windows 7 Start Menu and Start Button There are tons of start menu clones (check the thread here), but they're all inferior. StartIsBack restores original Windows 7 start menu (with very special magic). It's NOT a replica, it's 100% original Start Menu as you remember it, with search, drag&drop, customization, etc. Start Menu is shown on Win key, as you expect. Start button is behaving as you remember it.
Disabled hot corners By default, all but charms hot corners are disabled. You can customize which corners to show on desktop. And this works better than in any start menu clones i've tried.
Modified Start Screen Now, we have Start and Start. Start Menu and Start Screen. Both search and start programs. Isn't that schizophrenic? So! Start Screen is no longer Start Screen. It's Apps Screen and shows only Metro programs (optionally). This way, Metro and Desktop experience are separated and Start screen is just a launcher for funny Metro apps, while real work and programs run in Desktop.
Also not in your startmenu replacer No extra services running, no extra processes running, no files patched, no admin rights required, fully translated into your language.
Additional features
* You can close Start Screen with Alt-F4
* F3 on desktop launches standard search
* Press Ctrl+Win to invoke Start Screen (configurable)
* Choose start button orb from thousands of alternate ones
* Use msstyles with natively skinned start menu
So that's how i make Windows 8 desktop better.
Now, let's discuss and try beta. Rules for this topic:
* No Metro flamewars
* No off-topic
* No whining 'please restore this function from win7'
* Constructive concepts are welcome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or Install ClassicShell, disable the Hotcorners and activate SkipMetro to directly boot to the desktop and now Metro is gone.
I know a few people have made threads like this before, but those were all before Windows 8 was released in its final version. Now that Windows 8 has been out for a while, how do you think it compares to Debian? The gestures and apps are cool ideas, but I don't think they were implemented as well as they could have been on the OS when it came to non-touchscreen devices. Apps are a good idea, but I spend almost no time on the start screen apart from checking mail and breezing past it on my way to search for something.
Drivers have been a nightmare for some users, me included, as a few random automatic updates (now turned off on my PC) rendered my wifi unusable without a complete reinstallation of all the Toshiba drivers. I haven't had any problems with things such as mouse drivers, but I've heard of others who had to get them from another computer and install them via a flash drive.
Graphics are superb on Win8, much better in my opinion than Debian's, but when it comes down to it, they just aren't that big of a factor when choosing an operating system. Debian, on the other hand, lacks fancy graphics while it has a much more ("power user", I guess) friendly way of dealing with files and customization when installing packages. Windows does have options while installing programs, but they are limited to what the installer offers to let you do.
As far as ubiquity, Windows wins hands down. With a Windows system, you will almost never be stuck with a file format that nobody around you can open, and Microsoft Office is just as widespread on school and work computers as it is on home computers. Debian, meanwhile, comes with OpenOffice, or you can install OpenOffice's newer branch, LibreOffice. Both use the .odf format, which is readable in Microsoft Word, but some formatting options and graphics don't translate nicely into Word format. Fortunately, they also include the .doc and .docx formats, though they restrict you somewhat on what your document can have in it (same translation issues). Back to ubiquity, programs are nearly always easier to install on Windows, and plugins such as Flash and Java require much less experience and work on many more browsers when installing than on Debian.
For customization, I like Debian better because packages can install either programs or give you new system changes, such as new window managers and graphics options. In Windows, you either have to change group policy settings, or edit the registry, both time consuming, inefficient, and risky tasks (not so risky for group policy, but whatever). Programs such as Wine (actually, just wine, AFAIK) can safely add a different file system type into Debian, while you have to use the much less well known program Cygwin to have a Linux-esque environment on Windows.
I could go on and on about information that's readily available on google, but I need to know, do you like Debian or Windows better? I've been running Debian on Virtualbox for a while now, and I like it, but the whole thing about it not being as widespread and well-supported (yes, I know it has a support community behind it, but you can google literally just about any problem for Windows) is what's holding me back. I've done a dual-boot arrangement in the past, but that doesn't work because I allot half my hard drive space to both OS's, then end up using only one. So I want to have only one OS installed. I don't use Microsoft Office anyway (LibreOffice all the way! ), but getting used to using pretty much ALL open source alternatives to common Windows programs will take more than the month of sporadic testing on a VM that I've done with it.
Is it worth the switch? Or is Windows 8 too good to give up?