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Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
Yours to change and modify:
https://github.com/CyanogenMod
Ideologies differ. Work ethics differ. I think a move like this would be destined to fail.
Have you personally experienced both Macnut and Nero? Both ROMS are outstanding. I think the more fragmented the ROMS are, the more ideas, experiments, and innovation will occur. I think to push devs to a single common platform would be both stifling and detrimental to the android modding community as a whole.
Besides, all the devs have the same problem... Drivers. Until we start seeing Gingerbread leaks, all devs would have the same stumbling block anyway, whether they are working as one, or separately.
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
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This makes me moist.
d33dvb said:
Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
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my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
what a communist suggestion
I, personally, love that there are many diff ROM's to choose from. I love having that variety. I prefer <tw> ROM's, just because they theme it pretty much how I would theme a ROM (and they scream), If I was even remotely capable of Dev'ing. Eugene makes an awsome ROM too, But not to my personal taste. On my G1 I always used cm ROM's, but the way they work at this point that's not possible for a Vibrant. So I guess what I'm saying is, I'm glad they're not all concentrating on one ROM because we would still be waiting... stuck with RFS !
I just want that Cyanogen bluetooth stack on a regular (sans Touchwiz) Galaxy S rom with TV out. The Bluetoouth stack is the only reason why I am using Cyanogen outside of the speedy OS.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
I get what you mean but I have to say that I love flashing different devs roms & kernels, I would hate to be slave to one idea...I could have gone iOs for that.....get it iOs 4! I kill myself sometimes...
vibrant
GingerR2JL4
TopShelf10 said:
my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
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Agreed. It seems to be the "you want what you can't have" theory. It's going to be funny when there is finally a CM ROM and all these same ppl that wanted it are going to wonder why CM is so plain looking and isn't themed up. It's an endless cycle. CM offers support to multiple devices, which gets their name out there. But I can promise you if you've ran ROMs such as Nero + voodoo, even the best running CM isn't going to "blow it away" in performance, maybe some fun features, but that'll about do it.
I'm satisfied with TWs stuff. All I'm hoping for is that we can get drivers written to do our own ASOP roms, so we can one day have 2.3 and beyond.
im curious about this as well and being that i have no clue, i feel completely authorized to put in my .02 that i thought the primary reason we dont have cm for the galaxy was due to lack of aosp/drivers...
LOL, you sad bunch of folks think I have never flashed a rom on the vibrant? Sure I have, but they are all roms based off of samsuck files, with a theme pushed on top. This requires some skill and understanding, but it does not make you a "ROM D3V"
I am not in any way trying to push everyone to cyanogenmod, I am trying to get the "real devs" to work on things like GPS drivers and such as a whole, to benefit everyone, you think the tricks we learn as a group you cannot then use as an individual? You cannot say I am communist (lmao) because I want the devs to work together, I suppose that what people say about XDA is true, the users who are flaming me make it unbearable to have a real conversation. I mean just look there are several "FANBOY" posts already, and we are on post 13. No wonder the real devs ficking hate XDA. The sole reason I personally like cyan is because of the testing that it goes through, to make sure embarrassing bugs dont happen often. He has developed a rom for my G1, then both my Mytouch's and just miss running it on my vibrant, thats all. My G1 is sitting here running CM 6.1.0 and my phone still sits here on Ginger Clone, the best there is right now.
FYI when there was lack of drivers on the Dream/Magic someone re-wrote them, mmkay?
It has always seemed that the devs share fairly well. While they don't work together on one project, they share what is needed and form teams of likeminded people to push out better and better products. If you want to see what happens when you get everyone together and make them all focus on one big new release look at samsung itself. These small teams can operate with greater freedom to build and release mods and roms as they see fit. Xda is about sharing info and improving our machines. Would we really want to have gingerbread today without all the options and flavors that different dev teams put together. If you say yes, that's fine, but I like the variety and am happy to wait for what's next.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Moved of: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant Android Development
To: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant General
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
mindaika said:
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
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Yeah, that's the thing. The skill set involved in getting AOSP (and the rest of CM) building properly is a different skill set than modifying a Samsung released ROM.
The approaches are almost entirely opposite - whereas most ROMs here take what the vendor provides and replace the junky bits with stuff that works better, the AOSP-based ROMs such as CM start from a bare bones google source repository that never had any of that junk to begin with.
Both approaches have their merits. As should be obvious by now, the former results in much more rapid progress since you can start right away with a working build from Samsung. The latter approach can take substantially longer, since you don't have a working base to start from (especially with a device like the SGS, which has hardware very different from most CM-supported devices).
Eugene had an AOSP 2.1 rom pretty well built. Needed some kinks worked out, but there didn't seem to be a lot of interest because all everyone wanted was froyo. I'm sure we're probably see at least a couple of AOSP efforts if/when froyo officially drops.
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
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Click to collapse
Yep, codeworkx and the CMSGS team have stopped worked on 6.1 and (along with Supercurio and others) are working on an AOSP Gingerbread port for SGS.
It makes sense--no point in continuing to try to build a 2.2 without source when the 2.3 source is already out.
Here's what Cyanogen said on the Official CyanogenMod Forums.
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/a-note-on-unofficial-ports-and-how-to-get-it-right
With this said, why don't we jump on the bandwagon and just join the CM team? Why don't we make this thing official (if we haven't tried already)? Just a thought, so don't kill me with your opinions. The Devs here are freakin' legit here and I'd like to see 'em do some of the work on the CM Team.
I trust the devs I download from because I follow their work. I don't need it to be "official". Besides, I like the personal touch and one-on-one support I get right here on the xda eris forum. And there's variety.
We could debate the politics of branding and what is CM and what is not CM. But the devs here disclose their sources, changes, known issues and brand their roms as uniquely their own while providing the support and updates. I don't think there's any confusion as to what is 'official' and what is not as the Android Police article referenced in CM's statement implies.
+1. The devs here are excellent, and the devs that base there ROMs on CM list them as "based" on CM not the official CM ROM. I'm not aware of any confusion that this has caused. I'm also not sure what creative constraints would be put on our devs if they went CM. I like the way they individualize the roms for thier personalities and their audiences. I also am not sure what benefit would come with being an "official" CM rom. Just my 2 cents.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not discrediting the Developers that cook these ROM by ANY MEANS whatsoever. They do incredible work with what they push, but here's what I'm saying. The CM ROMS are based off of Official CM Source Code, yes, but I think we'd be making it way easier on ourselves and the developers if we were an actual part of CyanogenMod. If we were a part of CM, then we'd get the CM ROMS as perfect as they can get and THEN the developers can add their own customization to a ROM based off of the Eris Release of CyanogenMod. They all are already doing the work that it would take to actually /BE/ a part of the CyanogenMod team, so why not get on with CyanogenMod so we can be official, and THEN the devs can customize and tweak ROMS they way they see fit?
Once again, absolutely NO discredit to the developers here, and I understand what it takes to keep these ROMS current and I am very appreciative of their work.
The CM ROMs that we have are either built from CM source or ported from the Hero builds already. I'm not really sure what this would give us other than maybe a "go team go" feeling and maybe a little more help than we already get. But the Eris and CDMA Hero are so similar, that doesn't matter much in my opinion as long as any Hero issues get worked out.
The CM buildbots are just building from source and posting the results, much like you would get if you ran EasyDev or did it manually. Now, there's a lot of work going on before that with the code, of course. But... That's what we use too.
I'm not against this at all. It just means that someone will have to 1) want to do it 2) have the time 3) convince Team Douche to let them in. I seem to remember that someone asked early on and the response was that we had to send them an Eris. This might have changed.
This comes up every so often. I guess one of us can find out what we would need to do at least...
Nothing would really change for the end user if we became official cm at this point. Basically one of the devs here that builds from source would submit their vendor tree to the cm source and they would be responsible for maintaining it just like we do now. The only real difference would be that it would get built by the cm build bot and nightly's would be released. I tweeted to cyanogen about getting my 2.2 tree in there along time ago when 2.2 was new but either I did it wrong(not a twitter person lol) or it just got lost in the many many tweets that go through cyanogens account. I never really pushed the issue more because of the extra time it would take me personally and it was just easier to work on my own schedule.
The only added benefit would be that maybe if there was an issue we could not fix then the cm team would take an extra look at our specific phone to help out but really since our phone is so close to the hero and it has official support they sort of fix most of our bugs anyway. I've personally always tried to give the cm team all the credit they deserve(which is alot) and I think the other dev's do the same.
Here's what Cyanogen posted up to www.cyanogenmod.com a week or so again. It looks like we'd need an interested dev here to stop by #cyanogenmod-dev on Freenode to start the process.
I think (and I use xtrSENSE, so I could be wrong) that a lot of people would like and "official" CM port for the Eris, just so they'd have "peace of mind" knowing they've got something "official."
And again, as we've seen mentioned in this post, it couldn't hurt to ask. Provided Team Douche doesn't actually want an Eris, we only stand to gain extra help on our ports.
Cyanogen said:
There’s been some recent talk about unofficial versions of CyanogenMod being created and released on sites like XDA, with large amounts of missing features and broken functionality, and I just wanted to talk about our position on this.
An “official” CyanogenMod version is one that uses our code review system, our source repository, and our mirror network. It should look, act, and feel like CM on any other device, and more importantly, it should follow our release schedules (which is a “when it’s ready” kind of thing, but we do plan our final/RC releases when we feel it’s ready). Most importantly, no major hardware functionality should be broken.
We want to see CM available for every device out there, and our infrastructure (and our developer community) is there for anyone to use. We spend a lot of time making new releases of Android backward-compatible with devices that are not ready for them, and we also spend much time making all of these (sometimes not so pretty) changes co-exist together without breaking other devices. The more eyes on your code, the better it will be.
That said, as much as we’d like it to be, the CMSGS project is not yet an official part of CyanogenMod. There are also a number of other unofficial ports out there which haven’t been submitted to us that we’d love to include. If you’re interested, stop by #cyanogenmod-dev on Freenode. If you didn’t get it from our mirror network or the CM forums, don’t expect it to be up to our standards.
The biggest thing to keep in mind when porting to a new device is to think about how your change is going to affect other devices. This is the biggest reason why we aren’t supporting Samsung devices other than the Nexus S yet. Don’t change hardcoded default values just to suit your device. Use the configuration options available, or add new ones with the original values as defaults. Do a build for another unrelated device after you make your changes (it helps to have another device to test with, of course) and verify it as well. Android was made for this, so do it right.
Like I’ve said so many times before, CyanogenMod is all about the community. And our community can help you too. I’d love to see more of these ports contributed to the project- it’s only going to make things better. We’ve grown from just a mod to what I’d call an “Android distribution” and we need to keep our standards high.
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Oh no, does this mean we're all running unofficial CM ROMs ?
Wait, everything is working fine though... Official, unofficial, pffft
hallstevenson said:
Oh no, does this mean we're all running unofficial CM ROMs ?
Wait, everything is working fine though... Official, unofficial, pffft
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+1 10 char......
A dev would have to maintain the device and be committed to building it up, like Darchstar was (is?) for the Hero CDMA. It really all depends on the Dev/Devs for the device, for example I've seen Cyanogen say in his twitter that he would also like to see the Dream/Saphhire continue to be developed for but no one has stepped up to maintain it. I can also only imagine that there are some qualifications for someone to maintain a device. Here is a list of the current maintainers for the devices
https://github.com/cvpcs/android_vendor_cyanogen/blob/gingerbread/CHANGELOG.mkdn
Yeah, I can understand that. That's all I was saying, though. If they were doing all of the same work anyway I just thought it would be nice to have. I also didn't know if anyone had pursued this in the past, but seeing as how Conap had already tried I think I'm good with that. I also have no problems running the unofficial ROMs, just so you know. Thanks, guys!
It's not like we just want it to be official... but porting a ROM has its downsides. There's nothing to say devs couldn't take a ROM that is NATIVELY supported for the eris (and not for the hero) and do exactly what they already do... we would just be cutting out work for them and it would definitely effect the end user.
Hungry Man said:
It's not like we just want it to be official... but porting a ROM has its downsides. There's nothing to say devs couldn't take a ROM that is NATIVELY supported for the eris (and not for the hero) and do exactly what they already do... we would just be cutting out work for them and it would definitely effect the end user.
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the way i do it is best for me,,and seems to be going fine,,, the cm7 ports have been alot better then the froyo ,, and alot faster ,, look how long it took the froyo camera to work,, gb the camera works outta the box,,
Hungry Man said:
It's not like we just want it to be official... but porting a ROM has its downsides. There's nothing to say devs couldn't take a ROM that is NATIVELY supported for the eris (and not for the hero) and do exactly what they already do... we would just be cutting out work for them and it would definitely effect the end user.
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There is more than one definition of porting that people are using around here.
1) Porting to an unsupported device = compiling source, building a vendor tree, and getting it to work on said device (This is basically what the CyanogenMod team would do to make it an official build, although they would integrate the changes into the main source. The changes would mostly still be in a separate vendor tree in the repo. And it would be 'official'. From a practical/technical view, what workshed is doing is the same thing that the CM team would do.)
2) Porting an existing build to an unsupported device = taking an existing, already compiled ROM and making it work on said device (This is what tazz is doing with the Heroc build. This works out well when going from the Heroc.)
Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I have that right.
The only downside that I see from either of these is MAYBE not getting quite the support that we would get if the Eris had an 'official' build. I really don't think it's affecting much of anything, IMHO. It might in the future as the Heroc and Eris become more and more dated devices. But then, many of you won't really care because you're kids will be using them as mp3 players anyway while you use your fancy, new quad core HTC Destroyer 6G. (What's a Beiber?)
gnarlyc said:
There is more than one definition of porting that people are using around here.
1) Porting to an unsupported device = compiling source, building a vendor tree, and getting it to work on said device (This is basically what the CyanogenMod team would do to make it an official build, although they would integrate the changes into the main source. The changes would mostly still be in a separate vendor tree in the repo. And it would be 'official'. From a practical/technical view, what workshed is doing is the same thing that the CM team would do.)
2) Porting an existing build to an unsupported device = taking an existing, already compiled ROM and making it work on said device (This is what tazz is doing with the Heroc build. This works out well when going from the Heroc.)
Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I have that right.
The only downside that I see from either of these is MAYBE not getting quite the support that we would get if the Eris had an 'official' build. I really don't think it's affecting much of anything, IMHO. It might in the future as the Heroc and Eris become more and more dated devices. But then, many of you won't really care because you're kids will be using them as mp3 players anyway while you use your fancy, new quad core HTC Destroyer 6G. (What's a Beiber?)
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I thought it was a girl
tazzpatriot said:
I thought it was a girl
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Its a dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zb64y6Nvs0
refthemc said:
Its a dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zb64y6Nvs0
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nope still a girl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwIa2S0YQs4
FYI: http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/45246447385452544
@cyanogen said:
@Algamer we don't officially support the eris, it would be nice if someone doing the porting joined up with us though
about 8 hours ago via web in reply to Algamerhttp://twitter.com/Algamer/status/45235578886815744http://twitter.com/Algamer/status/45235578886815744
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I think OUR devs are doing just fine. Why change now?
wildstang83
wildstang83 said:
I think OUR devs are doing just fine. Why change now?
wildstang83
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Our devs are doing more than just fine, especially considering the amount of development we STILL have going on even though the Eris was a short-lived device that was EOL'd after like 8 months, was mid-range compared to the original Droid, and is a pretty niche device being MDPI on Verizon...
Why change now? That's a good question and I don't have a great answer. Like some have said on this post, maybe we'll get more support with bugs, etc. Additionally, a lot of the users here on XDA are looking for consistency. Since many who read and post here lack the skill set to do any meaningful ROM development themselves, they rely on the kindness of willing devs. However, devs will often add their own "personal touches" to their ROMs, which is great and well within their right to do. Having said that, many users are just looking to for something where they know, "Oh OK, so this is the base CM ROM that's officially distributed."
Personally, I don't care whether we have an "official" CM build or not for the Eris. I'm pretty reserved when it comes to ROMs for everyday use and am still using xtrSENSE as my default. The only reason I posted up cyanogen's recent tweet was to show that cyanogen himself is well-aware of the Eris development, is personally following the Eris ports, and is open to a partnership. My hope is that, by bridging communication, I am doing my part in helping to expose any possible mutual benefit (Eris XDA devs, ROM end-users, and Team Douche at CM) that could be gained by considering an "official" build. Ultimately, I understand that this is a decision that can only be made by the devs and also, not fulling understanding ROM development or having the skill set myself, I believe they are in the best position to make that decision. Like I said, I'm merely acting as a messenger, bringing this communication to light on our forum.
Hi, at the risk of starting a massive flame war, please dont, I'm just after information...
Being that the S2 stock ROM is already pretty good and we already have a number of decent ROM alternatives I am wonder what else CYANOGEN is going to bring to the party.
I have read all the spiel so I am not looking for the usual answers, what advantages exactly does it have, will it have, say over COGNITION when COGNITION Is fully working with video, games etc etc and has decent battery life. Doesn't have the CM7 messaging but I prefer K9 stock anyway.
I am also surprised that people are already using CM7 looking at the amount of DEV that still needs done.
I tried a CYANOGEN port on my old HD2 and I was left thinking what all the fuss was about, i'm probably missing something huge here, or CYANOGEN is really for advanced users or something.
Again, please keep this thread clean and calm
Please just go through the threads and read. It's all there. I won't rewrite the book. In short though, think a year from now. Cognition is based on stuff samsung released. What happens when samsung moves on? Cm7 will still be pushing the latest goodies.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I'm not going to lie I never understood the hype of cyanogen rom. I have also tried with an hd2 and wasn't blew away and didn't see anything special. I think cyanogen mod is for people looking for aosp.
I have much respect for that team though because as far as I know there roms are built from ground up. Unlike most custom roms sgs2 have are really just themed stock roms with a couple tweaks.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
you should probably stop wasting space here and go to cyanogen's site and read what it is about. if it doesnt interest you after that you dont have to think about it ever again. no need for threads like this, it just makes you look bad because you obviously have not spent any time researching and educating yourself before asking this question.
Isn't Android reinventing the wheel? iPhone was here first, and Android is just duplicating iPhone functionality. Google should shut down the Android project immediately.
da.trute said:
i'm probably missing something huge here, or CYANOGEN is really for advanced users or something.
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Bingo!!! Some of us don't want to use crapware installed by the manufacturer who is really not a software expert, just a hardware expert, and want to come as close to the stock Android experience as possible. For me personally, things like hold volume button to skip to next song, switch between percentage battery and analog battery anytime you want, a very advanced OS theming engine which doesn't require you to flash anything to change the theme, always being on the bleeding edge of new Android releases/bugfixes etc. is the icing on top of the cake.
However, it's really about the excitement of checking the commit logs of the nightlies everyday to see what's new.
Yeah I never understood what the hype was all about either, don't get me wrong its a great aosp Rom and I give the devs a world of credit, but it feels like a number of things are just incomplete.
It has a few features that aren't found on most roms and runs quick as Hell, but if your looking for an in depth user friendly experience I would not say that this is the best for that as it lacks a lot of simple things you might be used to if your coming from a sense or some other kind of based rom
All I can really say is back yourself up and give it a try for a day or two and if you don't like it then just go back.
CM has only just come out, and is far from stable, and only really should be used if you are willing to help debug or want to live on the bleeding edge
We want CM for when samsung have abandoned us.
Its always good to have options!
Each rom,whether its a "themed" stock rom, or a ground up one like CM7 offers something different.
The obvious advantage has already been mentioned - once SGS2 goes EOL for Samsung, CM7 will continue to support newer versions of Android till as long as the (very) capable phone hardware can handle it.
There are improvements... for some... e.g. the native Samsung bluetooth stack doesn't work with Wiimotes... for instance... i believe CM7 and know MIUI does...
Its really a case of... pick and choose... no1 charges for these... try...as many... if you like one... say thanks to the Rom maker... and possibly a small donation!!!... and stick with it...
Thanks everyone, thats pretty much what I thought, nothing special compared to a good feature packed cooked ROM but very useful in the future when sammy stop updating, I just thought I was missing something huge the way people get excited about it.
Will stick with COG for now until CM7 is looking fairly complete and then give it s roll.
yeah its all about when samsung abandons the device. in addition, it also is about running a fully open source ROM on your phone. once the cyan rom gets stable, each night it will be updated with a change log, so gives you the ability to constantly be seeing the fixes to the software actually running on your phone. something you dont like? commit to the code, and it may get merged into the repo. its about having total control over the device you are using, seeing every little feature, the code for it, how it works, and ability to modify it if you want.
of course it also has some good features too. but the above is what i think the point of cyan is.
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
I think that leak does not come with the source code. Thus there will not be any practical improvement right now.
Or, most likely ever. I doubt things will go much farther, and I'm usually the optimistic one
no chance
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
Pixelguy said:
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
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Click to collapse
Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
Having the kernel source would solve many issues, but after Motorola abandoned the device it's very unlikely they'll commit any more resources into releasing the half working source code. Of course we'd like to see the source released as it existed under development, but from what I understand, the the source that gets released isn't always exactly the same as what they work with when they compile it and things like extremely helpful comments in the code get removed because of things like NDA's. And although many of the libs and drivers can be extracted from the ROM, the code to use them has been lost.
As it stands, the Atrix Rebirth Project is probably the best chance for seeing a fully functional kernel source for ICS and beyond. But as has been pointed out already, interest in the device has been dying, and even if the project does manage to make it happen, it's not going to happen overnight.
Jotokun said:
Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
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Click to collapse
hmm i used pinters cm10 for a week and went back to MROM cm7 and customised it to my liking with ICS themes and text changers, looks just like ICS runs just as smooth as a buggy JB rom, thats the problem the performance of CM10 roms without HWA is about the same as a good CM7 rom... just with a few features like google now which nobody really uses anyway, although i understand where your coming from when it comes too the UI and animations on JB roms they are very nice but id rather sacrafice them and have a phone that will work 100%
I'm very naive to the inner workings of android
I also returned to mrom from epinters cm 10 and icsrom because of lack of camcorder or terrible battery life.
Now with mrom I have a very smooth launcher and all apps working. I do miss jellybeans nice interface, but what are the more fundamental improvements that gingerbread lacks? Besides feeling outdated and old of course :/
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Zero usefulness. Novelty item at best.
It's interesting to read opinion of no-developers is it something useful or not. Only developers could say something about it. Also most of you are so pessimistic, complaining that developing is dying.
xda-developers is for site and forum for developers. If you think that developing is dying, come on, do something about. Join Atrix Rebirth Project, start to learn how to develop kernel and rom. There is a lot of guides here and on Internet. Instead of spending time on forum and waiting that someone else do it for you and for free. If you don't have time to learn, contribute on another way: support developers, donate money or device, try to find solution, use your contacts to get leaked sources...
The easiest way is to buy a new device and start complain after a while
I have been very pleased with the stock GB rom. I have a Nexus 7 and an old HTC Aria, both running the latest version of JB and, other than a more up-to-date appearance, there's really nothing I can't do on the Atrix that I can do on the JB devices.
Its amazing what the developers have been able to do with the HTC Aria. It has very little memory, but they have created virtually unlimited program memory by using an extended partition on the SD card. The Aria also runs JB almost flawlessly.
If JB could run on the Atrix 4G the way it runs on my Aria, I would use it. But from what I've read, it has a long way to go. I am not even sure I would even be able to root my Atrix, which has the latest GB update from Motorola.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Slymayer said:
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah right ! talking about this leak ... is a >small< step foward !
Just imagine Michael Montuori out of here, Or the Bill ?! epinter !? Faux, or jocker that has made a wonderfull job and the other in the early days of the atrix .... all source code builder out of this atrix family at once !
Well ... Motorola doesnt have a great support for the moment ! as their Blur OS is ****ty slow ! :S
I own a Car dock, A HD Multimedia Dock and a great lapdock !
I approve that this is still frustrating (and i know the devs out there are NOT getting Paid enough for a better work than MOTOROLA itself,) that motorola own product doesnt have support yet ! but still have on a direct DHMI cable straight to the tv !! WTF ?!?!!
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
Our devs are GREAT but unfortunately, we still need that damn MOTO support for their drivers source for the new OS :S
Meanwhile
sathelate said:
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
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Click to collapse
I would even say "Bordel à couilles de constructeur de mes deux !". I'm writing this using my lapock... On my tiny screen, with my main screen at 45° so I can still read what I'm writing. I dreamt about WT3.0 with working LAPDOCK, it would have been so gorgeous, but it's currently not happening. "Nique cette merde !", I'm buying a Windows Phone next year when the ecosystem gets more apps and stuff. The news are getting warmer for this OS ! The amazing keyboard made in WP7/8 will replace my lapdock I use as a keyboard.
Development IS actually dying, look at the Atrix 4G development section where there used to be several ROMs under active development there are now just a few. Nearly everything that can be done has been done with the exception of what the Atrix rebirth project is doing. But there is no guarantee of success. If you have the money or a device to donate to the rebirth project, great, by all means go for it. Maybe one of the other tegra based moto devices might help a bit too. Unfortanately I think it's pretty hard to hold any level of optimism for the device after such a long string of let downs.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
I see the ICS leak as interesting but not overly useful.
Now, if they'd also leaked the source code, I don't doubt that the devs could have created a fully-features and stable ICS/JB within a couple of months. However, with no source for such a buggy leak, we're reliant on a few people trying to create a kernel almost from scratch. I wish them well, but I'm not holding my breath...
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
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Click to collapse
Like you? And you think that you're smart. That's exactly what vendors wish, get a new device. Bravo
Edit: With your latest posts in Atrix forum you're the same as maggedo or member with Atrix in name. Ups, you have Motorola
How long N4 will be the best device for you? What I see not so long
I think it's interesting how people work:
First everyone was crying about the fact, that Motorola left us out in the cold and now that we have a actually really good leak, people cry that it's not good enough... That's just sad. The leak is useful and it's a big step into the right direction. A lot of people put in hours of work for you (and for FREE!!!), to make this leak better. All you need is PATIENCE. Be grateful that some devs stick to this EOL-device and provide great work for us.
-Just my 2 cents-
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And... What about people who can't get a new device ? I bought mine like 6 months ago, it was for my birthday and I can't waste money on a newer phone like this.
But there must be some kind of "break-even" ahead.
How many hours of work and energy may be put from the most "valuable brains" into the leak (without having sourcecode), until they must decide: "enough is enough, it just will never turn out as "stable"?
From what I've understood there exists some good chances that maybe some day valuable parts of the XOOM kernel get migrated to the Atrix (see respective thread under development area).
May the last remaining devs of a dying device - whose work I greatly respect and appreciate! - join forces and turn more efforts into porting the xoom?
Since I don't think I can re-phrase myself in a better way, I'll just quote myself from a different topic:
CrisR82 said:
The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that the problem is the ROM devs themselves - seems like most rush ahead and as soon as a new Android version pops out - scrap bug-fixing what they made so you can have a fully stable version and move straight to a new one, bringing all the old bugs along with a ton of new ones.
I have to be honest, after some replies and PMs I decided to use dual-boot and try some other stuff...and I'm convinced the ROMs that can be classified as "stable" are less than 5...total. All others seem to have some type of issue that can screw over a person's daily life in one way or another.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would really like to see what you guys think on the subject: should developers slow down [maybe skip a version] to provide a genuinely stable ROM, or leap ahead for the new version and patch it out to a "usable" degree?
Most ROM developers are pretty much unpaid volunteers.
They should do whatever they want.
If you do the ROM, you get to choose.
It all shakes out one way or another.
^^^^^
Exactly. What a presumptuous thread. Also, why do you even need a 2nd thread to pose this question given your ongoing thread about not dissimilar issues ?
mikereidis said:
Most ROM developers are pretty much unpaid volunteers.
They should do whatever they want.
If you do the ROM, you get to choose.
It all shakes out one way or another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already know that...but here's the thing - noone makes a ROM him himself/herself only. Most people make a ROM and share it for others to use, so while the final decision is ALWAYS up to the individual dev, it's still good to know what the community prefers (or at least it would've mattered to me if I was a dev).
If we go with the logic that community opinion doesn't matter at all, we might aswell get rid of all topics that are not bug reporting or guides.
MistahBungle said:
^^^^^
Exactly. What a presumptuous thread. Also, why do you even need a 2nd thread to pose this question given your ongoing thread about not dissimilar issues ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it has little to do with the other thread?
"Share your first experience with custom ROMs" - "Do you think custom ROMs are being made and moved on from too fast?"...see the difference?
AFTER A BIG BANG a STABLE EARTH WAS FORMED.. If u want a pure stable ROM u have to progress. So its better we leave the DEVs work on it. Moreover its free be happy... We are not supposed to judge them what they focus on...
CrisR82 said:
I already know that...but here's the thing - noone makes a ROM him himself/herself only. Most people make a ROM and share it for others to use, so while the final decision is ALWAYS up to the individual dev, it's still good to know what the community prefers (or at least it would've mattered to me if I was a dev).
If we go with the logic that community opinion doesn't matter at all, we might aswell get rid of all topics that are not bug reporting or guides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, sure.
But I don't like the statement that "the problem is the ROM devs". It's criticism, and I think criticism is better directed at parties that are doing it for commercial purposes where I/we are paying customers, such as Google or the phone OEMs, or even CM Inc and MIUI Inc.
For popular phones there are a variety of ROMs. Some are more stable (often stock based) and many are more bleeding edge.
Even Google is more bleeding edge with AOSP on Nexus devices. How many times have we heard of longstanding AOSP Nexus bugs, such as BT issues ?
People slam the phone OEMs and carriers for taking so long to provide updates. Yet those bleeding edge updates, even from Google are often very buggy.
I'm happy to have a variety of choices. Let the chips fall where they may. Unless I've contributed financially to a ROM dev, I'm not generally going to ask him/her to follow any wishes I have about stability or leading edge features. (I've made a few exceptions where a popular ROM has nasty bugs that impact the users of my commercial apps.)
I have 20 phones to do testing and development of my apps. I go into these XDA forums and look for the most popular ROMs. Sometimes I want the latest to do KitKat testing, sometimes I want the most popular, and sometimes I want something stable (often stock based, as it turns out, or based on CM10.2 for example.)
i think first they should progress a bit then make that much part stable and move son
mikereidis said:
OK, sure.
But I don't like the statement that "the problem is the ROM devs". It's criticism, and I think criticism is better directed at parties that are doing it for commercial purposes where I/we are paying customers, such as Google or the phone OEMs, or even CM Inc and MIUI Inc.
For popular phones there are a variety of ROMs. Some are more stable (often stock based) and many are more bleeding edge.
Even Google is more bleeding edge with AOSP on Nexus devices. How many times have we heard of longstanding AOSP Nexus bugs, such as BT issues ?
People slam the phone OEMs and carriers for taking so long to provide updates. Yet those bleeding edge updates, even from Google are often very buggy.
I'm happy to have a variety of choices. Let the chips fall where they may. Unless I've contributed financially to a ROM dev, I'm not generally going to ask him/her to follow any wishes I have about stability or leading edge features. (I've made a few exceptions where a popular ROM has nasty bugs that impact the users of my commercial apps.)
I have 20 phones to do testing and development of my apps. I go into these XDA forums and look for the most popular ROMs. Sometimes I want the latest to do KitKat testing, sometimes I want the most popular, and sometimes I want something stable (often stock based, as it turns out, or based on CM10.2 for example.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people are misinterpreting my words...I'm not saying devs are terrible, bad at their work or anything like that, I'm sharing a thought on why I think most ROMs are not stable enough for everyday use and made a poll to see if others think this too, or simply put "a topic where people can show preference", I never once said "you should listen to me" or "do it how I say because it's better". While I personally don't have any use for custom ROMs in my daily life, I'm always happy to see more and more people making ROMs, stable or not.
However, I will say one thing and back it up forever - "it's not commercial" is not a valid reason not to criticize something. Any forum or work (coding, art etc.) is fully subject to criticism. So to people telling me "you cant criticize developers because they do it for free" - yes I can (not to mention it's my real life job)...it's called "having a point of view", if you agree or don't agree - that's up to you.
In short - this is a topic to see points of view on this, NOT to force anyone into changing his/her way of work. So stop treating it like one. It's how forums work - you open a topic to discus something.
P.S. yeah, now after re-reading it, I might've picked wrong words when I said "the problem are the devs"..."problem" in particular doesn't seem like an appropriate word for it...I apologize if I offended any dev with it.
Devs should continue to do whatever the hell they want to do however the hell they want to do it & ignore people like you.
Opinions & arseholes.
In my opinion, in order for rom makers to gain loyal users, they should prioritize stability while making progresses.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I also prefer stability over features.
@CrisR82 +1 for posts.
Which ROM You now using?
And with which you feel most satisfied?
dinos3 said:
@CrisR82 +1 for posts.
Which ROM You now using?
And with which you feel most satisfied?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the Samsung stock ROM (Spain region) since my job requires me to do so, but I really like MIUI for its awesome stability and customization (though I have a feeling they'll never update the S2 to 4.2 or higher)...but I also like CyanogenMod 10.1 (the stable build) for the slight performance increase (and I would've probably kept it if it wasn't for the unfixable MHL and other Samsung closed source things that don't work).
I'm also keeping an eye on Omni and I plan to give it another try once it reaches a more stable stage since it fixes some graphics issues on the S2 GT-i9100.
CrisR82 said:
I'm using the Samsung stock ROM (Spain region) since my job requires me to do so, but I really like MIUI for its awesome stability and customization (though I have a feeling they'll never update the S2 to 4.2 or higher)...but I also like CyanogenMod 10.1 (the stable build) for the slight performance increase (and I would've probably kept it if it wasn't for the unfixable MHL and other Samsung closed source things that don't work).
I'm also keeping an eye on Omni and I plan to give it another try once it reaches a more stable stage since it fixes some graphics issues on the S2 GT-i9100.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice...
This http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2562055 4.4.2 ROM?
dinos3 said:
Nice...
This http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2562055 4.4.2 ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's the Omni one I used
CrisR82 said:
Yes, that's the Omni one I used
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you try it, let impressions. I can't even find a rom that suits me...
dinos3 said:
If you try it, let impressions. I can't even find a rom that suits me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already have and I posted my thoughts on it here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2580635
dinos3 said:
If you try it, let impressions. I can't even find a rom that suits me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can try slimsaber 4.4.2 by FJ. good battery,stable for me and ART working on all my apps.:good: