Related
Can someone clarify something. There are a lot of the phones out there that use a use a GSM sim. I do not plan on using a watch as a phone as I do not want to pay for another monthly fee. I need something that will work as a watch and alert me/vibrate when I get an alert as my hearing is not the best (and phone vibration in pocket does not always get my attention). The pebble does this, but is sort of boring/limited. The Gear is way to expensive and the Sony smartwatch2 is a little pricey.
I am unclear if these other ones like the smartQ and the ZGPAX will work for me if I do not use the built in cellular. Are there other options under $150usd that I should consider?
Thanks
Walt
I do believe that if the smartwatch runs off GSM that a SIM would be required, unless it syncs off your phone using Bluetooth. For the watches that are stand alone units, thats when I would have to say that a SIM is required. If you look at the Neptune Pine, it asks what service do you want (GSM or CDMA).
My advice would be to give it a couple of months as this tech. starts to trickle out of CES and hit the shelves. There are tons of models rolling out that will fit your needs, this is quickly becoming a saturated market. I had a chance to play with some and most of the good ones have what your looking and even more, if your willing to pay more. Seems that most are trying to hit a common price point, so there will be many options.
If I was in charge of developing the Note 4, I would do this:
1. Make it duo sim card compatible
I don't know if it is possible but with duo sim cards you can have 2 phone numbers. One phone number can be for work/business and another for personal use. That way, when you get a phone call, different ring tones would let you if the call is coming from work or from personal calls.
2. Make the Note 4 unlockable to all carriers like the iphone 6. The iphone 6 (the t-mobile version) from the Apple store is essentially unlocked and it can be used with Verizon, AT&T, and T-mobile. It does have some issue with Sprint at the moment though. Anyway, if the Samsung web store can sell extra batteries and other accessories, then it can certainly sell and unlocked Note 4 at full price and there would still be a lot of people willing to buy it.
To cut down the cost, the Note 4 can eliminate some of the less than useful sensors such has a heart monitor, a UV sensor, and others. How often do you use the UV sensor and you can check your pulse with your fingers on your wrist with a stop watch or a regular watch with seconds counter.
This was the official link to purchase the developer edition, gone??
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SM-N910VMKEVZW
Yeah it has been down for about a week or so. Looks like the end for them new from Samsung. Shame because I checked the stock on them the day before it was pulled and they still had over 80 of them.
Note Edge DevEd is gone too.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Just when I finally decide to buy the developer edition it disappears from their site. It's getting harder and harder to find newer devices on Verizon that can be rooted and has external storage/removable battery.
Are they going to offer a Note 5 DE?
Get a unlocked phone off of tmobile and you can have removable back battery and sd card and you can put a verizon chip and root.
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
Confirmed by Samsung - no more developer note 4's for sale. off the website about a week ago.
good news though. there will be Galaxy S6 Developer Editions, this year, and there will be a Note 5 developer edition (next year)
rob
anticloud said:
Confirmed by Samsung - no more developer note 4's for sale. off the website about a week ago.
good news though. there will be Galaxy S6 Developer Editions, this year, and there will be a Note 5 developer edition (next year)
rob
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Unfortunately, a non replaceable battery is a deal breaker for me.[emoji20]
Extra Virgin said:
Unfortunately, a non replaceable battery is a deal breaker for me.[emoji20]
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I was thinking the same thing. Especially if they go with an even smaller battery then what the N4 has, like rumors state.
I haven't been using the spare battery for mine. Just to see if it would be a total inconvenience or not. Hasn't really been at all. Though they never decide to die until it is a major inconvenience haha.
Well, I have to get my Note 4 reflashed back to developer. It's being sent to texas on tuesday. I wasn't thinking, and duked my device with the latest update from Samsung / Verizon. not a good idea, stuck in retail land. I am also planning to get a new screen put in as the one I have has some severe burn-in.
btw - if you are near contract's end, consider this (I am). Don't opt to renew your plan for a new two year agreement just to get a new phone. Verizon, if your plan is expired, will drop your rate 24.99 to keep you. either keep your existing phone, or, pay full retail for your next one.
I know, if you buy a Note 5 (or S6) and want gob loads of memory you pay big bucks. You could also purchase a S5 Developer off of Samsung's site for 599.00 and get the luxury of a new phone plus developer, plus removable battery, plus additional storage.
just a few thoughts your way.
There's this too. Verizon Will Drop Phone Contracts, End Discounted Phones
Yup. No more contracts or contract pricing as of this coming Tuesday. Only options for phone purchase from VZW will be EDGE or full price. If you want a subsidized phone price point, get to the store tomorrow (although it doesn't seem like ANYONE wants more contract... lol)
And, the retail note 4, discontinued...
Sadly the development has never been great for the DE. Lack of root for the retail version has killed an otherwise amazing phone for tinkerers and Nandroiders.
If I am wrong let me know and I'll try to get one used... but until then I stick with my extremely versatile note 2!
Note 5 is a no go for 2 simple reasons: SD and fixed battery.
Samsung Will Feel It.
Telemachus said:
Sadly the development has never been great for the DE. Lack of root for the retail version has killed an otherwise amazing phone for tinkerers and Nandroiders.
If I am wrong let me know and I'll try to get one used... but until then I stick with my extremely versatile note 2!
Note 5 is a no go for 2 simple reasons: SD and fixed battery.
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Yup, Note 5 looks great, but from a distance...
And that's why I picked up a 2nd Note 4, found one, at a Best Buy, who states their inventories are depleting and they are discontinued in their systems. So, as soon as they are all sold out, no more. I had to run to a store far away from my home to get a new one. Yup, it's retail, but of course has the two main features people want. And I'm holding on to it for right now, not sure what I'll do with it.
Samsung most definitely does not have em, and whatever Verizon has they REFUSE to sell one at full price walking out of the store with them - poop-heads
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But Samsung will feel it, for sure - Hmmm, apple-wanna-bees, maybe we'll call them "Sample", yup, we tried it, doesn't taste so good anymore...
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On a final note, and what might be regarded by most of you as a "Good luck with that.." attempt - this, is the reason I am named "Anti-Cloud"
I would like to start a petition, in which we, the users of phones, regain 100% control if it's use, who has access to it, what's on it, and with full administrative access rights. I would like that to see the petition be forged into a bill and work it's way up to Washington and become law: it basically puts the business of communication devices on a simple one-to-one basis, a simple business model - which in the end, if a person pays for phone service to make calls, send texts, run apps, browse web etc, that the business relationship is solely between "you" and the carrier - meaning you pay for the service and the carrier can only conduct business scoped to making phone calls sending receiving data / text - no collection of whereabouts, providing location services (which is BS anyway), nor using the phone by any means to sell more services - a simple contract more or less, that all other business conducted, whether the user knows about it or not, is prohibited by law - the phone is a phone, it is not a platform for a carrier / 3rd parties to conduct further business (or the government for that matter).
History / Background - A purchased computer, by any of us, is for the most part, an honest transaction - meaning once we purchase that computer, which may have an operating system / software on it, it is free to do with what we want. We, the user, can decide to employ administrative access to that PC, even go as far as completely remove an operating system. Note, not sure about apple, but with Microsoft, although a bit harder to do with Windows 8/10 etc, the user can still remove virtually anything they don't want in that operating system let alone they can fully preserve administrative access even in the midst of an update of operating system / software...
Phones, are not that way today. The phone's calling / data / text service is a basic service, yet there are many hands / fingers / services nested with a phone as it leaves the confines of the carrier, with the intent to solicit, collect, and control the business conducted of (on) that device - I want an end to it.
You realize that when you walk out of a carrier with your new phone it is not just a phone you can make calls with, send texts, browse the web - using Samsung / Verizon as a base example: It has Verizon, Samsung, Google, and the Government's fingers into it. The device is a platform to do "further" business with, on top of which we, the user, do not have full administrative rights to.
1. I seek to defund the business models (fingers), i.e. amputate - 3rd parties abilities to do ANY business (collect data, or sell) on devices that does not have to do with making phone calls, sending texts, using data (sending / receiving data between the carrier's towers and the device - the raw service, what you pay for)
2. Give the user FULL unadulterated administrative rights to the device with ability to remove ANY / ALL components / software / drivers - and that no non-essential-software shall be "baked-in" to the point that if removed the device becomes in-operable - i.e. NFL football, google maps. The device's ability to make calls, send texts, consume data must be independent of ALL other applications. Essentially, there would be no need for rooting / jail breaking as the phone's will come that way.
3. Location services can be disabled / removed and are completely free / untethered from the hardware GPS and or the phone's ability to operate - a consumer can, at will, have the ability to remove ALL location features even up to the point of removing drivers which employ the hardware GPS - if they so choose. And, a carrier / 3rd party cannot make the claim of greater accuracy (as that is a lie, complete lie) - using the hardware GPS is by far the most accurate and ALL software models at a minimum should be required to have the ability employ the hardware GPS only with no transmission of location datum to a 3rd party / carrier without the expressed consent of the user / knowledge there of.
4. Device manufactures and carriers MUST give the user a complete freedom from cloud service and or provide an equal means of storing / transmitting user's private data without the intervention / knowledge of a 3rd party provider / carrier - the user must have the choice as to whether to use the cloud or not. No carrier / manufacturer can put a device in service which forces the consumer to use cloud services. and the carrier / 3rd party provider MUST allow the user to move data off / on to the device in a sealed vacuum of privacy.
5. Operating System Providers MUST provide an operating system in which the user can have FULL administrative access to do all the above while maintaining a secure model - meaning carriers / manufactures cannot debilitate a secure service or claim the device is insecure if administrative access is gained by the local user. Secure models must be independent of administrative access - just like a PC!! It is an excuse, 100%, if a provider / carrier insists that security has been compromised if administrative access is gained.
This is a start -
Now, having said that. in a reasonable fashion, a carrier / 3rd party should have the ability to deem a device secure (or not) by virtue of a minimum set of requirements that deem the device safe to transact financial / secure private business - i.e. the user could remove components that defund a device's security model making it vulnerable for attack etc. carriers and 3rd party providers in order to maintain a secure model should be allowed to prevent an application / certain services from transacting if the device is not compliant. We see this in an application like Soft-Card etc. although I contend that a user gaining root access does not constitute a breach in security - if it does, it is because the operating system (or software) is weak - see #5, and providers must ensure that they can achieve a secure platform with administrative access.
any takers?
Ummmm...
Good luck with that!
lexbian said:
Yup. No more contracts or contract pricing as of this coming Tuesday. Only options for phone purchase from VZW will be EDGE or full price. If you want a subsidized phone price point, get to the store tomorrow (although it doesn't seem like ANYONE wants more contract... lol)
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Just to clarify, from what I've been reading if you are on a VZW legacy plan with a 2 year contract you can stick with it and get contract upgrades like normal going forward. I have not seen anything official from VZW on this, but that's the word on the street and I really hope it proves to be true. I still have unlimited data on 4 of my 5 family plan lines and if they steal the contract upgrade subsidies from me I'll be f*#king pissed since it's a value of around $20/month per line.
On a side note I'm looking for a DE Note 4. If anyone has any leads let me know. Those things are like leprechauns these days.
If someone here with a DE wants to move to a different phone I have a contract upgrade available with Verizon so I can trade you any new phone for a DE Note 4.
vmod32 said:
Just to clarify, from what I've been reading if you are on a VZW legacy plan with a 2 year contract you can stick with it and get contract upgrades like normal going forward. I have not seen anything official from VZW on this, but that's the word on the street and I really hope it proves to be true. I still have unlimited data on 4 of my 5 family plan lines and if they steal the contract upgrade subsidies from me I'll be f*#king pissed since it's a value of around $20/month per line.
On a side note I'm looking for a DE Note 4. If anyone has any leads let me know. Those things are like leprechauns these days.
If someone here with a DE wants to move to a different phone I have a contract upgrade available with Verizon so I can trade you any new phone for a DE Note 4.
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@vmod32 I sent you a PM.
madchainsawer said:
Get a unlocked phone off of tmobile and you can have removable back battery and sd card and you can put a verizon chip and root.
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
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Not to repeat what you just said but are you saying that if I get an unlocked phone designed for T-Mobile that I can run it on the Verizon network as long as I put the Verizon sim card in? That would be awesome as I want to buy a note 4 developer edition but can't find one.
burbank said:
Not to repeat what you just said but are you saying that if I get an unlocked phone designed for T-Mobile that I can run it on the Verizon network as long as I put the Verizon sim card in? That would be awesome as I want to buy a note 4 developer edition but can't find one.
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No - this doesn't work as Verizon has to white list the device for it to work on their network.
So is it just sadistic that this page is still up?
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/ET-N910VMKEVZW
Ok I have been reading around but I have what I think is a moot question but i have not heard it answered specifically before.
I currently have a Galaxy Nexus (completely stock) phone with grandfathered unlimited on Verizon. I use an app called Extended Controls from the Google play store and by turning on the widget app for wifi hotspot I have been getting free use of my unlimited for when I am working out of range of any decent wifi.
Since my device was not updated past 4.2.2 I am now wanting to buy the new Nexus 6P for Christmas ( I have had the same Galaxy Nexus for 4 years! - no case either).
From what I have been reading once I get Verizon to give me the new sim and add me to the account to maintain my unlimited (after I pay full price ) I will no longer be able to use this app to gain access to my free wifi hotspot.
It seems that other people's methods (foxfi etc - I never used any other besides Extended Controls) no longer work but I have not seen anyone here mention having used Extended Controls.
So my questions are :
1) when I get the Nexus 6P - will I have to use root in order to obtain the free wifi hotspot as some others have mentioned?
2 ) is there a safe rooting for dummies yet for the Nexus 6P which is just about foolproof?
3) What is it that Verizon did that now blocks those apps - which we used before - from working now?
So I currently use about 28 - 35 GB per month so moving off unlimited is out of the question at this point. I stream music at my job - in a building where there is no wifi allowed - and I do it in my car as part of my cummute (45min - 1hr ) getting to work. I cannot imagine buying a $650 phone as nice as the Nexus 6P and not having the ability to use my unlimited the way I still do now.
I have done a few searches in the 6P thread but I didn't see anyone mention the Extended Controls app not working and they don't say it does work on the Google Store.
thank you in advance for anyone to steer me in the right direction. At this point I will be lucky to get a 6P by Christmas and hopefully by then have a few days vacation to figure out how to get the phone working like I need it to work.
Hmmmmm, if memory serves me correctly (had the same phone, same plan from vz - but over 2 yrs ago), I never had to use an app for hot spot - but - I unlock/root as soon as I get a device and run custom roms/kernels.
So, again, if I remember, part of vz tweaking the os is hiding the Android native hot spot feature. So, by getting stock Android, you'll have that feature, and shouldn't need any special apps - you can even add a tile to the quick settings drop down to switch hot spot on/off.
If I also remember, there was an entry added by some carriers in a database on the phone that would check if hot spot was allowed by the carrier - when carriers would charge separately for hot spot data. Most if not all custom roms at the time were kind enough to fix that for ya - yet another good reason to unlock and root.
What you could try is - cutting down your present SIM - and just using it in the new device. My understanding is if you already have an activated SIM, you can just use it in a new device, no need to get vz involved - which is always a good thing imho.
I'd Google - cut down SIM - you'll get tons of info and how tos on the subject. I'm planning on doing this when my 6p comes in.
Lol - this is what I said to Verizon when I got my n5 2 years ago;
"I've been waiting about 15 years to say this - cancel my forking account"
Verizon never had coverage where I lived, not even calls, so I was paying $125/month for 2 lines - pay for each text, sharing like 700 minutes talk between 2 lines - and never really able to use any of it!
Unlimited talk/text and 5 gigs a month fit $45 on straight talk now - and I can make calls and text from home now. Would never go back to Verizon!
Phazmos,
Thanks for the reply but I am probably still a little confused.
If I remember correctly when the Nexus 6 came out many did what you suggest - cut their sim to fit - but the phone didn't always register as an official verizon device. Unfortunately my company provides me with a 17% discount on my monthly bill but only if you can prove that your phone is officially on the network. Verizon actually calls me every year to reverify it.
I am not sure how Extended controls works on the 4.2.2 version Galaxy Nexus I have now but I am pretty sure that it turns on the wifi hotspot without Verizon knowing about it. If I go straight to the "portable wifi hotspot" part of my settings then it comes up with the same error as everyone else on Verizon without wifi hotspot enabled. But "this .99 app- Extended Controls - just turns it on ... on the sly.
If the new version of the 6P has that feature and I just turn it on then Verizon will charged me. - I am already going to have to eat the extra $20 per month.
I am planning on buying the phone through Google but I will have to talk to a couple of the main Verizon stores here to guarantee that they will turn on my new sim (I am scared of cutting my current sim- what if I **** it up then I have no phone not even the Nexus!)
I have heard of people convincing the store manager to activate their new micro sim in a store model and then put it in the phone.
I am so leary of spending $650 and then having them refuse to activate it correctly.
Also I have always been afraid of rooting because I figured that right out of the box I could have a brand new $650 brick on my hands.
What I do know is that I cannot continue with this dinasour that I have now! It is way past it's prime days.
I really would like to switch over to something like T-mobile but even here in Northern VA - their coverage lacks in too many areas that I travel to.
mhughes1966 said:
Phazmos,
Thanks for the reply but I am probably still a little confused.
If I remember correctly when the Nexus 6 came out many did what you suggest - cut their sim to fit - but the phone didn't always register as an official verizon device. Unfortunately my company provides me with a 17% discount on my monthly bill but only if you can prove that your phone is officially on the network. Verizon actually calls me every year to reverify it.
I am not sure how Extended controls works on the 4.2.2 version Galaxy Nexus I have now but I am pretty sure that it turns on the wifi hotspot without Verizon knowing about it. If I go straight to the "portable wifi hotspot" part of my settings then it comes up with the same error as everyone else on Verizon without wifi hotspot enabled. But "this .99 app- Extended Controls - just turns it on ... on the sly.
If the new version of the 6P has that feature and I just turn it on then Verizon will charged me. - I am already going to have to eat the extra $20 per month.
I am planning on buying the phone through Google but I will have to talk to a couple of the main Verizon stores here to guarantee that they will turn on my new sim (I am scared of cutting my current sim- what if I **** it up then I have no phone not even the Nexus!)
I have heard of people convincing the store manager to activate their new micro sim in a store model and then put it in the phone.
I am so leary of spending $650 and then having them refuse to activate it correctly.
Also I have always been afraid of rooting because I figured that right out of the box I could have a brand new $650 brick on my hands.
What I do know is that I cannot continue with this dinasour that I have now! It is way past it's prime days.
I really would like to switch over to something like T-mobile but even here in Northern VA - their coverage lacks in too many areas that I travel to.
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Registering as official may be a problem - a problem with most any unlocked device. Carriers, vz in particular, can be real touchy about devices not supplied by them.
Oh, took a look at that app on play store - guess what - I also bought that app! Had to be like 3 or 4 years ago! Was surprised to see "purchased" when I found it. But, I didn't have to use it for hot spot, not after unlocking/rooting and loading custom roms.
I never used hot spot much, mostly when our network would go down - I'd for up the hot spot to get a few co-workers internet access till it came back up, and I'd just use native Android hot spot. That tells me you have the database thing going on. If I remember, that would send the native hot spot through a certain gateway (I think) and if you didn't have access, browsers would be redirected to the "sign up for hot spot" page from the carrier.
I also thought most carriers, vz included, didn't care about hot spot usage any more. There was a BIG stink about that a few years back - as in you're paying for data - how you use it is up to you, not the carrier. As I recall, there were a few law suites from users.
Anyway - since the new device isn't carrier supplied - or approved as they like to call it, you'll have other issues when going the new SIM/imei not in their database route.
A note on SIM trimming - it's super easy - and if you do screw it up - tell them you lost service and tried pooping the SIM out, then you dropped it and the dog ate it and get another! They want your $$$ - believe me - they'll give you another. I'd even "mention" to them you're gonna get this device - which works on any carrier, and mention att, tmobile and any other carrier - and you'd be more than happy going to a carrier that does support the device. Again, they want your $$$, they'll accommodate - and try to get ya to a new limited data plan - beware!
And a note on unlocking/rooting - real easy and real reliable on that device - same for any nexus device, especially if gotten from Google. The nexus line is actually for developing the os and apps. You could say it's made to load custom Android versions - when you want to test, you do it on a nexus.
PS - I resurrected my gnex a few months ago - loaded lollipop on it and gave it to my sister as her droid x2 finally died. It ran it pretty good for an old timer! Just like I run pretty good - for an old timer!
Good luck!
Wow you rooted your old Galaxy Nexus and got Lollipop running? Interesting.
Maybe after I get the newer phone I will experiment on the old nexus. The screen actually still looks pretty good. it is just the way it operates on the older software that makes me want to throw it in the Potomac.
mhughes1966 said:
Wow you rooted your old Galaxy Nexus and got Lollipop running? Interesting.
Maybe after I get the newer phone I will experiment on the old nexus. The screen actually still looks pretty good. it is just the way it operates on the older software that makes me want to throw it in the Potomac.
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I did, actually unlocked/rooted a week after I got it. As soon as some development started happening, I started loading roms. Nexus devices get the most love from devs, there was a lollipop version available, so away we went. Once you're unlocked and rooted and have a custom recovery, loading roms is basically a matter of downloading it and installing it. Pretty painless.
Don't know if you've seen lollipop, but it finally made Android a beautiful looking os - Android lost the acne and grew up, so to speak. And since newer Android is made to work on many different devices with lots of different hardware, it's made to run on minimal, or marginal, hardware. The gnex certainly fits into the minimal hardware category now days.
I forgot to mention yesterday, there is another thread here - what to expect from Verizon - I think it is, where questions like this are being actively discussed.
You may get more info there - you're not the only 1 wondering about Verizon. Googling - 6p on Verizon - also gets an article or 2 on the subject. That's where I got some of my info (I've been in technology close to 20 years now, so I'm the go to tech guy for a lot of people, including more than a few Verizon users).
And always remember, there's a work around for everything, ya just gotta find it!
Oh, surprised to hear the screen was still good. The gnex had a horrible screen. Amoled displays have come a looooong way since the gnex. Mine w had a horrid blue cast to it, especially when turned down, and was starting to burn in. Never noticed the blue till I got my next phone, the nexus 5. On that the whites were actually white - I almost fell over - it was that much of a difference!
To prepare for new 6P and nano sim you can buy a Sadapter Sim to Nano Sim adapter. Buy this quality brand only.
Visit a Verizon company store mention you'll be getting a new phone, one with nano sim like iphone or moto-x, and would they activate a new nano sim for you so you are prepared to plug and play when you get new phone. In meantime insert nano sim and adapter into your Gnex. For above you might get better cooperation going to Bestbuy vs Verizon.
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For activating Hotspot while bypassing Verizon check, it is to be determined if any current apps like Foxfi will work. You will probably need to do the build prop edit for "tether provisioning" mentioned elsewhere. You can prep for this also by downloading tools (adb & fastboot) and Drivers to your PC.
There are some Guides on XDA to walk you through steps to get to and through the "tether provisioning" bit.
Thought I might add a little to the conversation based on my experiences... I recently updated from my Nexus 5 (which I loved) to the Nexus 5x. on my unrooted Nexus 5 Wifi worked wonderfully with ATT as my carrier. On my updated Nexus 5x I can turn on the Wifi hotspot and bluetooth network sharing - HOWEVER it is buggy and the throughput is not good. A few of the bugs are I cannot turn on the wifi hotspot via the quick tile, only from the settings menu, the first time I select the hotspot a toast message pops up stating it is checking with carrier then flashes off and I have to turn it on again at which point it does come on. I actually get better speed from the Bluetooth network sharing...
so from what I have read the Nexus 6p is the same in this area as the Nexus 5x so you may want to look at getting a Nexus 5 which would be a great update from your phone and can run Android Marshmallow - I am strongly considering going back...
I have a nexus 6p, and cannot use my hotspot (I'm on an AT&T based MVNO). The phone will say "please contact AT&T to enable hotspot". There are workarounds (at least as of android 6.0.1) for non-rooted phones, such as ejecting the sim card, reinserting it, and quickly activating hotspot before the phone has a chance to provision (confirmed working if your timing is right), but this gets annoying really fast. There is no other way to override this check at this time on the stock ROM, which is really disappointing. I don't know if other MVNOs will be the same, but I'm really disappointed Google chose to take this path
Hey everyone. I just wanted to spread the word that credit card-specific tap and pay apps might be more easily fooled than Android Pay when it comes to using it on a rooted device. I just set up CapitalOne Wallet. Originally it detected my rooted device and refused to work, but after installing and enabling RootCloak (xposed module), the setup process went smoothly. I haven't tried buying anything yet, so I'll update this when I have more to report, but it's definitely something to be aware of.
UPDATE: I tried to pay for something at a Wegman's. The app detected that there was an NFC pay station there, but it was not able to communicate with it. I'll try more later.
UPDATE2: I realized that the reason why Wegman's didn't work was because I had disabled my phone PIN lock. I turned it back on and successfully bought something from a vending machine. It works! Wooo! Now to go back to never, ever using it.
UPDATE3: I factory reset my phone, and the app will no longer allow me to add the card, even with rootcloak. Without rootcloak, I get a "no rooted devices allowed" message. With rootcloak, I get a "some unknown error happened, please try again" message that I've gotten consistently over several days. Maybe someone from CapitalOne is reading this thread.
UPDATE4: I got a strange email today informing me that my card was disabled for mobile payments at my request. I made no such request. However, I went in to the Wallet app, reenabled it for mobile payments with rootcloak on, and it worked perfectly. So....maybe rootcloak does still work and there was just some sort of issue on their end? Either that, or some hacker really doesn't want me using mobile payments. We'll see whether or not it actually works when I try to buy something.
SwipeYours is a good HCE but you need to know your card dump
Might pickup a capital one card because of this. Chase pay is inbound I heard too. Any other cc tnp apps out now?
rayjr13 said:
Might pickup a capital one card because of this. Chase pay is inbound I heard too. Any other cc tnp apps out now?
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I'm not sure. I just checked to see if Discover had one, and it doesn't look like they do.
ha no. Discover pay would be a stretch for fathomable. Finally used Apple Android Pay on Turbo 2 though. Much cleaner interface but seriously wish there was a solution for unlocked users smh.
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Side note I kinda think the goal may be to get another device probably a wearable that is not rooted or bootloader unlocked and use android pay with that is that a possibility or are all wearables companion to the point that they require a phone to function for android pay? I assume the coming cellular wearables would be able to function autonomously.
Has anyone tried Tapp? Its a simple demo app built on the SimplyTapp service, which seems to be a shared back-end w\ SDK, for developers looking to write HCE functionality into their own apps (e.g., a retail chain that wants to add NFC functionality into their loyalty card app; e.g., make it easy for the Starbucks app to use NFC instead of scanning a barcode).
Using the "SwipeYours" profile you can add in any card data, assuming you have access to a mag stripe reader to read your VISA card magstripe data.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tapp
EDIT: I see now this is the same as the "SwipeYours" suggested by @liquidburns, which is also available as a bare-bones technical demo (e.g., without a fancy GUI, PIN lock on the app, cloud backup, etc):
http://blog.simplytapp.com/2014/01/host-card-emulation-series-swipeyours.html
Unfortunately, it would seem everything relying on a mag-stripe dump is going to be short lived, as most POS terminals that support NFC also support EMV chip, and thus will not accept the mag-stripe data from a card that also has an EMV chip.
rayjr13 said:
ha no. Discover pay would be a stretch for fathomable. Finally used Apple Pay on Turbo 2 though. Much cleaner interface but seriously wish there was a solution for unlocked users smh.
---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------
Side note I kinda think the goal may be to get another device probably a wearable that is not rooted or bootloader unlocked and use android pay with that is that a possibility or are all wearables companion to the point that they require a phone to function for android pay? I assume the coming cellular wearables would be able to function autonomously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, you can use apple pay on an android device? Is that a hack, or does apple let you?
Also, I'm not aware of any wearables that have NFC, so that wouldn't work in any of them that exist today. Also, all wearables (apple and android) are designed to be paired with a phone, and have extremely limited functionality without one.
DA6030 said:
Has anyone tried Tapp? Its a simple demo app built on the SimplyTapp service, which seems to be a shared back-end w\ SDK, for developers looking to write HCE functionality into their own apps (e.g., a retail chain that wants to add NFC functionality into their loyalty card app; e.g., make it easy for the Starbucks app to use NFC instead of scanning a barcode).
Using the "SwipeYours" profile you can add in any card data, assuming you have access to a mag stripe reader to read your VISA card magstripe data.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tapp
EDIT: I see now this is the same as the "SwipeYours" suggested by @liquidburns, which is also available as a bare-bones technical demo (e.g., without a fancy GUI, PIN lock on the app, cloud backup, etc):
http://blog.simplytapp.com/2014/01/host-card-emulation-series-swipeyours.html
Unfortunately, it would seem everything relying on a mag-stripe dump is going to be short lived, as most POS terminals that support NFC also support EMV chip, and thus will not accept the mag-stripe data from a card that also has an EMV chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I suspect that we have a while in the States before magnetic stripes become obsolete. Most places I shop at don't even have the chip readers (or they do, but the chip functionality isn't enabled yet) even though I think they technically have to by law at this point.
TheSt33v said:
Wait, you can use apple pay on an android device? Is that a hack, or does apple let you?
Also, I'm not aware of any wearables that have NFC, so that wouldn't work in any of them that exist today. Also, all wearables (apple and android) are designed to be paired with a phone, and have extremely limited functionality without one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that was a slip meant to say Android Pay. Never had that problem when it was Google Wallet. So much for successful brand marketing, Google.
Also I was referring to the line of devices like the pending LG Urbane LTE that are presented as autonomous with their cellular connections. Wonder how independent they will be. Why have LTE if you are pairing to another device still anyway? Just silly and more expensive on the data.
TheSt33v said:
True, but I suspect that we have a while in the States before magnetic stripes become obsolete. Most places I shop at don't even have the chip readers (or they do, but the chip functionality isn't enabled yet) even though I think they technically have to by law at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally true, but my point is that any merchants that are upgrading their payment terminals in 2015+ to support NFC, are almost certainly getting chip readers in the same upgrade. And, at least theoretically, these "pay by NFC without Android Pay" hacks only work on terminals that HAVE NFC and DO NOT HAVE chip readers, which is a rare combination I've only seen at the handful of big chains that were original Google Wallet launch partners (e.g., Jamba Juice, McDonalds). Everywhere else that I've seen NFC (e.g., Trader Joes, small businesses with Poynt devices) also has chip readers, and all new installations will likely have both.
rayjr13 said:
Sorry that was a slip meant to say Android Pay. Never had that problem when it was Google Wallet. So much for successful brand marketing, Google.
Also I was referring to the line of devices like the pending LG Urbane LTE that are presented as autonomous with their cellular connections. Wonder how independent they will be. Why have LTE if you are pairing to another device still anyway? Just silly and more expensive on the data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. I didn't know that was a thing, or why someone would want such a thing.
Walmart pay lol?
DA6030 said:
Unfortunately, it would seem everything relying on a mag-stripe dump is going to be short lived, as most POS terminals that support NFC also support EMV chip, and thus will not accept the mag-stripe data from a card that also has an EMV chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update: So far, I've tried this at a couple merchants that have terminals with both EMV and NFC active (and are soft-rejecting swipes when a chip is available), and it works great with both my Chase VISA cards. According to SwipeYours developer, the rejection I feared (for using the wrong card transmission type) would be enforced by the card issuer, not the merchant, so YMMV with other banks.
Getting set up was easy, using this card reader ($12 w\ free Amazon prime shipping): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D3D3L8Y
I chose to plug the card reader directly into my phone with a USB OTG cable, it was recognized as an external keyboard, and 60 seconds later I confirmed everything worked on my office vending machine.
Liability shift
Technically its still up to banks to recognize fraudulent activity regardless of how you use your card. The bank can't blame you for not recognizing a well made and executed skimming device, which presents a higher chance of getting your personal information captured than using hce in my opinion. You have a higher chance of losing your credit card information through a fake marketing scam or the waitress at a diner than HCE.
TheSt33v said:
True, but I suspect that we have a while in the States before magnetic stripes become obsolete. Most places I shop at don't even have the chip readers (or they do, but the chip functionality isn't enabled yet) even though I think they technically have to by law at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I work in payment technology and I can shed a little light on this topic. There is no law requiring merchants to accept chip cards. There is legislation requiring card issuing banks to issue all new cards with chips and there is a liability shift for all merchants who continue accepting payment without adopting the chip technology meaning that merchants now run a higher risk of the bank withholding(retracting) payment due to chargeback because the banks no longer carry the liability for fraud protection in the case of a merchant who is not taking chip payment.
I am a salesperson so the technology side of my industry is only known from what I have gathered along the way.
That said, AFIK NFC payments do not involve chip data at this time and I would assume they won't for the foreseeable future. Mag strip, chip, and soft pay are simply 3 different ways of encrypting the same set of data(card#, Exp, and cardholder data) for transfer. This gets a little above my level of understanding but my assumption is that soft pay uses a similar encryption method as the chips do and my best guess as to why AP is as aggressive as it is about system mods is not so much to protect your card data, but to prevent cloning from being achieved easily.
If I am right, then I assume that we will soon see MSD removed from merchant terminals as an accepted protocol by way of security patches (updated every day at merchant batch), effectively rendering SwipeYours and the like, useless.
This might be a good compliment to SwipeYours for as long as it continues to work: Rhombus - Play Store