Related
I have been quite dismayed with the predominate attitude, taken on lately by many senior members, that it is okay to treat people as lesser individuals, simply because their computer skills are lacking. Knowledge needs to be shared, and is detrimental to society as a whole when individuals feel afraid to learn. Additionally, the ever growing flame wars between senior members is not beneficial to anyone.
Many of have been treated horribly in the past by others, and it becomes all to easy to lash out from behind a computer at someone, using a faceless individual to represent those whom have hurt you. The truth is, we all have pain, we all have been belittled by others, and by continuing this behavior in a forum only hurts us all.
Though I know I will most likely be flamed for this, I want to make a post, asking senior members to agree to a pact stating:
1. I will be as patient as possible with each individual, and respect the fact that what me seem easy to me, can be difficult to others.
2. I will restrain from flaming others in the forum. If an individual attempts to start something with me, I pledge to be the bigger person, and ignore the comments.
3. If I so choose to help someone, I pledge to do it in a constructive, non-demeaning manner.
I recognize that this is symbolic only, and is not something that can, or was intended to be enforced. I feel that it is a strong thing for this community to have a core group of senior member that refuse to play into this hurtful, non-constructive behavior. Please join me in agreeing to this. Thank You.
I'll only agree if the posters SEARCH first, if a question has been answered 4 times that day, I'm going to be mean.
And do NOT post questions in development, that is my BIGGEST issue.
Agreed, Although only as a Member who has all but given up in asking for help around here. Its Great being part of a Community, But less so when the community almost turns on you because of your knowledge level.
I'm Fairly tech Savvy, but when I dont understand Something, I prefer to ask in the hope of some help, Athough at the moment I dont feel Inclined to as the pompous, Eliteists run riot around here for the time being, Pissing on anyone who dare ask a question.
Some people need to remember, Its only an easy answer if YOU know it, Not everyone does.
JAguirre1231 said:
I only sign if the posters SEARCH first, if a question has been answered 4 times that day, I'm going to be mean.
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It is nothing to sign. My point is that it is better to not say anything, then to be mean. I am not here to change your opinion, and I respect the work you do on here, but just feel that everyone needs to be nicer to one another.
killyouridols said:
Agreed, Although only as a Member who has all but given up in asking for help around here. Its Great being part of a Community, But less so when the community almost turns on you because of your knowledge level.
I'm Fairly tech Savvy, but when I dont understand Something, I prefer to ask in the hope of some help, Athough at the moment I dont feel Inclined to as the pompous, Eliteists run riot around here for the time being, Pissing on anyone who dare ask a question.
Some people need to remember, Its only an easy answer if YOU know it, Not everyone does.
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Having taught math at the University of Oregon for the past six years, I have learned that such an elitist attitude towards learning hurts everyone. I am a probabilistic researcher, and could make anyone on this forum feel incompetent with a few "simple" questions. We all have strengths and weaknesses, and touting yours above others, can never serve a beneficial purpose.
cloverdale said:
Having taught math at the University of Oregon for the past six years, I have learned that such an elitist attitude towards learning hurts everyone. I am a probabilistic researcher, and could make anyone on this forum feel incompetent with a few "simple" questions. We all have strengths and weaknesses, and touting yours above others, can never serve a beneficial purpose.
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At the Moment, it all feels like the Community is seperating almost, the exact opposite of what we (possibly) want to achive, all through total intollerance of other peoples knowledge threshold.
It feels like, for want of a half arsed comparison, a mechanic laughing at you because you couldn't fix your own engine. I have an Android Phone, am I expected to know how it works under the Bonnet Inside/Out, and if I asked a question to a Mechanic (XDA-User) would I expect to be made a mockery of, because I didnt have their level of Knowledge?
killyouridols said:
At the Moment, it all feels like the Community is seperating almost, the exact opposite of what we (possibly) want to achive, all through total intollerance of other peoples knowledge threshold.
It feels like, for want of a half arsed comparison, a mechanic laughing at you because you couldn't fix your own engine. I have an Android Phone, am I expected to know how it works under the Bonnet Inside/Out, and if I asked a question to a Mechanic (XDA-User) would I expect to be made a mockery of, because I didnt have their level of Knowledge?
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That is a good way to put it.
killyouridols said:
At the Moment, it all feels like the Community is seperating almost, the exact opposite of what we (possibly) want to achive, all through total intollerance of other peoples knowledge threshold.
It feels like, for want of a half arsed comparison, a mechanic laughing at you because you couldn't fix your own engine. I have an Android Phone, am I expected to know how it works under the Bonnet Inside/Out, and if I asked a question to a Mechanic (XDA-User) would I expect to be made a mockery of, because I didnt have their level of Knowledge?
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It is separating, and not necessarily for the best. I understand people don't have the same amount of knowledge, but most of this knowledge is readily available for those willing to spend the time to look for it.
Nobody on these forums started out as the Android gods, we all started out with the same amount of knowledge on Android. However we found out one thing and another thing, and so on, until we could piece the information together.
We're not asking for people to know everything, just enough to where somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through the entire process (i.e. If I give you some commands, you should know a where to input them [or at least have a general idea])
We're not asking for the world, just some common sense.
Anyways, good comparison
JAguirre1231 said:
It is separating, and not necessarily for the best. I understand people don't have the same amount of knowledge, but most of this knowledge is readily available for those willing to spend the time to look for it.
Nobody on these forums started out as the Android gods, we all started out with the same amount of knowledge on Android. However we found out one thing and another thing, and so on, until we could piece the information together.
We're not asking for people to know everything, just enough to where somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through the entire process (i.e. If I give you some commands, you should know a where to input them [or at least have a general idea])
We're not asking for the world, just some common sense.
Anyways, good comparison
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Very well put.
JAguirre1231 said:
It is separating, and not necessarily for the best. I understand people don't have the same amount of knowledge, but most of this knowledge is readily available for those willing to spend the time to look for it.
Nobody on these forums started out as the Android gods, we all started out with the same amount of knowledge on Android. However we found out one thing and another thing, and so on, until we could piece the information together.
We're not asking for people to know everything, just enough to where somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through the entire process (i.e. If I give you some commands, you should know a where to input them [or at least have a general idea])
We're not asking for the world, just some common sense.
Anyways, good comparison
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Correct. I, Along with a lot of others, dont WANT to be Spoon-Fed infomation, I'm one of those who like to study things and work it out myself if I can IMO the best way to gain Knowledge.
Many (Including yourself JAguirre) are very helpful, and no, no one needs to be GIVEN the infomation all the time, but when some are looking for a nudge in the right direction, all they are getting is a shove the other way.
What I can't stand is when others have to be polite jerks when asked for their personal opinion on a subject.
So I am all for this thread.
Coming from MMUS.US to this treatment, well I'm disappointed to see how immature this larger forum is...
I will help anyone I can provided they have posted in the right place.
I have never seen anyone on these forums getting flamed for asking a sensible question, most those that are is down to a sheer laziness displayed by a good few who can't spend five minutes reading the rules or doing a quick search.
As far as I'm concerned if that's there attitude then they deserve everything they get.
Harsh I. Know but that's just my opinion, I have run a fair few forums and getting tough is sometimes the only thing that gets through to them, being all nicely nicely you might as well throw the doors open and rename the place the nut house!
shadowch31 said:
I will help anyone I can provided they have posted in the right place.
I have never seen anyone on these forums getting flamed for asking a sensible question most those that are is down to a sheer laziness displayed by a good few who can't spend five minutes reading the rules.
As far as I'm concerned if that's there attitude then they deserve everything they get.
Harsh I. Know but that's just my opinion, I have run a fair few forums and getting tough is sometimes the only thing that gets through to them, being all nicely nicely you might as well throw the doors open and rename the place the nut house!
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I feel you on "that is what they deserve", but my point is that we can all be bigger than that and choose a better way in which to express our disapproval.
cloverdale said:
I feel you on "that is what they deserve", but my point is that we can all be bigger than that and choose a better way in which to express our disapproval.
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To be honest no matter how you word things someone somewhere will decide to take offence. I truly believe the best policy would be a standardized reply to them something along the lines of...
This post is in an inappropriate place. Please spend five minutes reading the forum rules stickied at the top of this forum and please contact a mod to move this to the appropriate place. Thank you.
Once seen in a thread that should then be left alone by other members until such time it is moved. That way stopping the crap that can go on and will admit to being involved with myself sometimes.
h
shadowch31 said:
To be honest no matter how you word things someone somewhere will decide to take offence. I truly believe the best policy would be a standardized reply to them something along the lines of...
This post is in an inappropriate place. Please spend five minutes reading the forum rules stickied at the top of this forum and please contact a mod to move this to the appropriate place. Thank you.
Once seen in a thread that should then be left alone by other members until such time it is moved. That way stopping the crap that can go on and will admit to being involved with myself sometimes.
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This is the right direction in which we should be moving. I am not going to let people walk all over me, but at the same time it is not okay to use the forum as a way to express anger (which we all have too much of).
I have been using this site for almost three long years. I rarely post but I do feel there is a change in the way things feel on here. I have modded and maxed out five devices of my own and could not even count what I have ,in one way or another, passed on to people where I work. I agree that people should at least put out some kind of effort to find an answer on their own. However, the search option ,for most people, just leads to information overload. Most of the posts are in a language that 99% of the newer members cannot understand. This site started out as a place for people to share what they have learned. It feels more like and exclusive club everyday now. Please people, do the world a favor. Be patient, listen, and help a newb. We were not born XDA addicts. We became them. Someone helped you once, so be kind and help others. At least be respectfull. Common human decency goes a long way. Help a fellow out. The world needs more teachers. And that folks is my rant...........
I have no problem respecting people who deserve it. If someone takes the time to read the stickies, post in the right place and search (even a little), they're fine in my book. But when theres already 6 open threads in one week in any particular forum on the same subject, and you open up a seventh, that doesnt deserve respect.
Dont get me wrong, it doesnt deserve noobish disrespect either, but I'm not going to be inclined to help that person. Perhaps thats what we all ought to do: instead of slamming people for asking the same questions over and over, we just ignore them.
Here's my pact: http://bit.ly/14d7yE
jubeh said:
Here's my pact: http://bit.ly/14d7yE
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I was wondering how long before you shared your ideas :b
no one deserves respect if they fail to respect others
they should have 1 strike each time they go against rules including cursing or discrimination.
Ive been lurking here for a while quietly helping through PM and congratulating great work.
Over the years the members have become like the fan boys at apple. Foaming at the mouth waiting to flame a new member for not finding the answer in search or posting a relevant topic in the wrong section.
Seriously?
When the G1 came out we were all noobs. This Samsung is no different. There are alot of people new to android who picked up this device and I love it when the community grows.
FYI. XDA isn't the Bentley of android forums... we are a community of people looking to help eachother. Can we please keep the flaming to a minimum? You are wasting bandwidth.
My two cents. (now watch the number of people who tell me I'm in the wrong section.)
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
I agree for the most part. But it does get old if there is a similar thread on the 1st page of the section. This is not a matter of being a noob to android but a noob to forum etiquette.
There are no stupid questions, but not attempting to find the answer first is a bit lazy.
I don't think its the fact that people are noobs. Its the fact that they have poor forum etiquette. Senior Members and New Members are both guilty of it. I think most people are more than willing to help or give advice. People just need to think before they post.
I hear ya on this one. Even as an android user from day 1, I, myself am guilty of becoming pompous member at times.
Back when the sh*t fest started in the G1 forum (during the Haykuro and CM C&D letter) I created a thread that was added into the "Informative links" sticky.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568011
While I feel it mostly feel on deaf ears and blind eyes, if you think a revision of this would help, I dont mind spending some time on updating it before we post here in Vibrant forums.
Sorry OP, im not trying to hi-jack the thread, but do you mind if use this thread as a start point? maybe we can have some ppl chime in to get this updated and more in line with Vibrant forum. I already see some things I would need to change, but anymore technical info and thoughts would be appreciated.
xda-developers.com displays textbook… narcissism...
Agreed.
What about a FAQ page related to specific phone That includes the most asked questions. Specific to flashing, apk, odin, a step by step guid.
30Glock said:
What about a FAQ page related to specific phone That includes the most asked questions. Specific to flashing, apk, odin, a step by step guid.
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Well the problem is we have that yet people don't read it. So people post the same thing over and over again and the older members get mad and take it out on the person.
The street goes both ways. New members need to put a little effort and older members need to be a little more forgiving.
I've worked very hard on the Sticky. If someone asks the same questions I've answered over and over, I have little patience.
No we just need more aggressive moderation and banhammers. We also need English as a second language, because places like Mobile-Review.com forums are far more tame and nicer, even though no one goes there. And that's probably the main reason, since XDA is the go to place for a lot of people when it comes to smartphones, whether they are concerned about modding or not. Popularity has its downsides. And there's another stereotype that may or may not be true, but people who want to hack their phone and be on the cutting edge are also *usually foul-mouthed brats living in their mother's basement with no social life or sensibilities to speak of. Normal people don't really care about any of this. Or maybe that's geeks in general, real nasty on the net but pansies in real life.
I've done my fair share of forum moderating and admining. I have the same thought process on every on.
1.Everybody is new day one.
2. Its the senior members job to point them in the correct direction.
3. Todays newbie is tomorrows expert.
Scare new members away and who knows what they would of contributed later. Senior members if you get tired of the same old questions either be helpful and answer it or don't say anything at all. Being rude just scares away members and honestly that is not a good practice.
Hijack away I dont mind I just got tired of reading flaming posts. Its good to know im not the only one who felt that way.
I think a forum ettiquette post would be great
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
kizer said:
I've done my fair share of forum moderating and admining. I have the same thought process on every on.
1.Everybody is new day one.
2. Its the senior members job to point them in the correct direction.
3. Todays newbie is tomorrows expert.
Scare new members away and who knows what they would of contributed later. Senior members if you get tired of the same old questions either be helpful and answer it or don't say anything at all. Being rude just scares away members and honestly that is not a good practice.
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Plus 1. Thats wat I was trying to say. Perfectly worded sir.
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
Yeah I go through and
Read many forums and the search option is not the greatest. Sometimes it'll point me to a line someone said on a thread with over 100 pages. Honestly although I try sometimes it's too much to read and a lot of bs to skim through about people arguing over who knows more. And sometimes I just get lost reading the technical stuff.
But because of some members attitudes here i am OFTEN reluctant to ask questions. They either get overlooked or people get upset. I understand a lot of times a lot of things are repeated but sometimes it's not clear the first time or someone else puts it in a different light.
I appreciate all the work done here but I wish sometimes people would just relax and have fun doing this. If someone asked a question that was already answered then YOU don't have to respond. Someone else is willing to help.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I've been reading internet forums since the dawn of USENET. Guess what? People asking questions that are in the FAQ has always happened and always will. Yeah, it gets annoying to the long-time readers/contributers, but you have to look at it from the point of view of the new user. Believe it or not, some of them just don't know better. They don't know to read the sticky. They don't know where the search button is, or they don't know what to search for. There are a multitude of reasons, but the bottom line is, they are all individual, unique people who come here seaking an answer to a problem. They have no knowledge of the 10, 100, 1000+ people that have asked the very same question. So when you get upset about reading the same question for the eleventeenth time, you are getting mad at a person for asking one question. Not a person who has asked the same question a bunch of times.
If you look carefully, you will see that after a person comes here (and any forum for that matter) and asks a question that has been asked before, and when that person is replied to with respect and helpfulness, generally that person will not ask any other questions that have been asked before. In fact, that person very likely may become a contributer, helping other newbies a long the way.
My wife teaches college and without fail, when it gets to the last two weeks of the semester, she starts getting floods of emails "What can I do for extra credit?" "What is the policy for late work?" etc. Guess what. All of the questions are in her course syllabus that she hands out on the first day. It drives her nuts too. I try to calm her down there too.
Have you ever gone to some public service desk (DMV, taxes, hunting license, anything like that) and received very rude service for just asking a question? Because that person is fed up for answering the same question over and over again, even though there is a sign on the door that you somehow missed reading on the way in. Remember how you felt? Was it really YOUR fault?
Some of them are truly lazy and want to ask even though they truly know better and for some crazy reason they think they will get a faster response by asking rather than searching.
Bottom line is, if you are the kind of person who gets really, visibly annoyed over things like this, then internet forums may not be the best place for you to hang out. If it just annoys you a little reading the same question over and over again, then congratulations--you are human. You can either choose to respond or not respond. And if you do respond, personally, I think it is better to try to keep a positive, helpful attitude.
I agree with the OP.
I have been using forums since it was first called UseNet, as a matter of fact, I still call them "newsgroups".
XDA nowadays reminds of the reasons why I left the Media Center forums back in 2005, after having earned 2 MVPs for my help there. Those who were once newbies themselves and asked stupid questions at first became arrogant and elitist and spent more time flaming and calling names those who asked questions like they once asked, than pointing them in the right direction.
Using the search is not always the answer. There are many ways to frame or word one issue or question. What for one person is a lag, for another one is slowness, delay, performance, etc. Words can be misspelled, shortened, euphemisms can be used, etc. For many English is not even their first language.
Posts by people well acquainted with the technologies at hand can be daunting not only for newbies, but for many who are not experts. References to CM6, Odin, Clockwork, Recovery mode, etc, in the same sentence can be intimidating, when you know that a simple misunderstanding can brick your $600 phone.
Like someone else well said before, today's newbies are tomorrows experts.
I understand that seeing the same question (not necessarily stupid) for which an answer has been provided before may bother some people (not me), but instead of spending valuable time and bandwidth criticizing and frequently offending others saying things that probably wouldn't be said in person, wouldn't it be better to answer the question, or at least point the person in the right direction and then humbly instruct them how to find the answers by themselves?
The anonymity of nicknames sometimes lead people to act in a less civilized way than what they would do otherwise.
Luis
I quickly browsed through this thread to read others thoughts. Here are my own:
Yes, this forum in particular does have it's share of rude members. What I'm noticing is that a lot of people will chime in and immediately chastise the OP, or call someone an outright liar about their particular experience. What I really hate is when someone with a particularly bad attitude posts something like "Well I really don't care about...." and then proceed to go on a diatribe about how they don't care about something or how someone else is wrong or stupid. They obviously care if they opened the thread, took the time to read the thread, and then took the time to respond.
Look, we are all here to share our knowledge on something in particular that we know, and to also gain knowledge from someone else on things that we don't. My hope is that this forum becomes more helpful to the people seeking it. For instance, I never found a clear-cut answer to the question if you root the phone and apply the lag fix and whatnot, if you will still get the OTA updates that are forthcoming. Some people say yes, others say absolutely not. I didn't get the feeling that anyone who answered that question knew exactly what they were talking about. Yet, if I made a post asking, I would get slammed because it's "been answered before you stupid noob".
orells said:
Ive been lurking here for a while quietly helping through PM and congratulating great work.
Over the years the members have become like the fan boys at apple. Foaming at the mouth waiting to flame a new member for not finding the answer in search or posting a relevant topic in the wrong section.
Seriously?
When the G1 came out we were all noobs. This Samsung is no different. There are alot of people new to android who picked up this device and I love it when the community grows.
FYI. XDA isn't the Bentley of android forums... we are a community of people looking to help eachother. Can we please keep the flaming to a minimum? You are wasting bandwidth.
My two cents. (now watch the number of people who tell me I'm in the wrong section.)
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
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\
I think it has to do with age. I've come to the realization that this board is full of 14 year old wanking little boys, so what else to do you expect? I don't care what their birth certificate says, maturity wise, the majority of the board is all of 14. It's disgusting and if I didn't need mod info, I sure as h*ll wouldnt be here.
What the hell is up with all the fighting going on in this forum. A lot of people seem to ***** and moan about every little detail. It seems that whenever i go in to the popular threads like. Eugene's, or the lag fix, etc. and hit the last page, there is a lot of arguing going on. Can't we just be patient and content with what we are offered by the awesome work of the dev's we got. If we continue to ***** and moan about every little thing all they are going to do is work for themselves and maybe a couple of close friends and leave us out because all we ever do is complain. I know we are all eager to use our sweet ass phone to its full potential, but its going to take time. Just look at the g1 and how long it took to have it running at full potential and beyond. All i'm asking for is peace in this thread and make it a pleasure to come in here and read about new developments in peace. [end rant]
thread reported
...twice for good measure
Right on the money
You hit it right on the money.STFU people. Your not dev'n your bit**in, casuing it to slow down. We would porbally have CM6 if people would quit there yappin. Go play outside.
I sincerely hope you don't believe this thread is going to stop anything. This forum has been the same for many years and It will never change. This forum is full of children and they're all going to argue and fight. Your best bet is to ignore it and continue to what you're doing. Posting a thread like this puts yourself right down at their level.
for real. Im not sure if 75% of people on xda are children, but 75% are definitely childish.
i have never seen so much childish like arguing, fighting, and comments in my life
If people posted their age (real of course) I would assume that the large majority are 12-17.
threads like this never seem to actually change anything, but it does make me feel a little better to see a few people not acting like 12 yr olds.
Im not getting all 'high and mighty' but i think i act like a 'normal' person (not a whiny brat).
--not saying that younger people should not be here, or course they should, they just should not act so stupid, aggressive, impatient, disrespectful, immature with the comments
Coming from ppcgeeks this place is a war zone. I actually stayed at ppcgeeks even when I had a nexus one because everyone here is so rude.
You make a new topic and God forbid there's been another one days ago made, so now everyone jumps on your case hard core.
Unfortunately I have to come here cause ppcgeeks is mainly cdma ..
But it took a learning curve coming here.. gotta put on war paint to make a thread or even a post..lol
or if people want to argue about silly little things they can use this thread or make one thread just for arguing, if thats what gets you off, but leave the development threads clean and only post about relevent things dealing with the actual thread
p.s. Thanks Mods for moving it to the proper forum
kboater said:
for real. Im not sure if 75% of people on xda are children, but 75% are definitely childish.
i have never seen so much childish like arguing, fighting, and comments in my life
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Welcome to the internet and the power of anonymous posting! Nothing works better than a mask to hide behind and do and say things *most* people wouldn't do or say face to face.
Luis
Cool story bro.
Sent from the Matrix
Funny all the *****y haters didnt post yet.....hahahaha
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
noticed it myself, and suspect some of it is due to feelings of inadequacy on some posters' - literally
there's one poster that 90%+ of his/her posts are rude, illogical and slamming on someone else's post - i've started to suspect that poster just needs to feed his/her own feelings of self-importance, and a keyboard is an easy & convenient tool
Waaah! My phone don't work! Waaaah! People won't stop complaining! Waaaah! People don't do the things I want them to do!
You know what complaining about complainers gets you? More complainers. Yeah.
Yeah?!?!?!
Well F you for starting this thread BRO!!!
/sarcasm
F everyone i'm done [throws vibrant out window] going back to the g1
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765441
I guess we should all be happy with beta-at-best quality work just because we're "lucky" to get the attention.
any phone has issues. Hell if its not the GPS its something else. N1s wacky touch screen that sucks, Droid x locked bootloader, evo separated screen and frame cap, etc.
No matter what there will always be something needing fixing or in samsungs eyes
OPTIMIZATIONS lol
joe.kerwin said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765441
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lol nice example
I read the title as "missing patches". Haha, I thought you were gonna be whining about no patches for gps or something.
I agree tho, been thinking it was just the captivate side with all the iphone people new to xda. I actually thought of leaving and coming back in a couple of months when things settle down.
Sent from my captivate
From what I see a lot of the pissing matches comes when 1 person has a different opinion on something and everyone has to tell him/her that is wrong.
I do agree though no one should EVER ***** or complain to a developer.
However if someone states a flaw without going oh my god this ruined my phone, but only just states it I don't see why everyone has to try to jump on them (usually the case).
For example in one thread I stated that I missed froyo and I hate that the Vibrant doesn't have it yet. Someone asked me what i missed, I answered with exactly what I missed and examples and I got jumped on for being impatient about developers releasing it. Never once did I say I wanted CM or any develeoper to release it (in fact I want it directly from Samsung), but the pitch forks came screaming those aren't big deals and and i needed to stfu and wait for a developer to release it.... which was never my point.
Too many people think there way is the only right way to think. Its rather annoying to see how far people will go too. Also I find that alot of people in these pissing matches don't read entire posts which I find funny because 1 person is usually arguing with someone who has the same general opinion but slightly different and they make it out to be a night and day difference.
In my past year being an android owner I have noticed a change of attitude in the development threads. When I bought my vibrant when it first came out a friend referred me to XDA. I was new to the android OS and didn't really know too much about how to root, flash, etc. This site taught me everything I know about my phone that I do today, and I learned by using the SEARCH button. I hate to ask questions especially if I was the one to break it. I have "soft" bricked my phone more times than I can count. And everytime I do and its something new that I have never seen I use the SEARCH button and like magic answers appear on my computer screen.
But back to my original gripe about the attitude in the dev section. Used to, people read the warnings that were CLEARLY posted in the OP of a new rom. They also followed directions like the rom dev posted. Now there were a few people who didn't and ****ed their **** up but nothing like there is today. I was a noob back then and really didn't understand half the stuff of what was posted. But I read and researched and now today I finally have an understanding (albeit small, but an understanding none the less).
For the last couple of months though everytime a new rom comes out and we'll use these 2 as an example (Frost by Krylon and then CM7) people fill the thread with pointless ****. Yeah I understand that problems and glitches need to be reported but after 10 pages of the same **** over and over again I think the dev understands that "hey this issue may need to be resolved ". Once 1000 people same the same **** about a issue they found STOP posting **** people. It clutters the ****ing thread for people who actually read for the sake of not bricking their $250 device.
Take for instance the CM7 thread right now. If you sit there and read every page you are going to find at least 10 people that have used the 2g/3g toggle widget and ****ed their **** up by doing it. Even though it CLEARLY STATES IN THE OP not to use it. Then they wanted to complain and say it was an issue with the rom and it should have never been released yet, but because of their actions and stupididty they caused the problem to begin with.
Then in the Frost thread people are just ASSHOLES. Krylon worked his ass off to put out a 2.2.1 TW rom. These people who flashed a rom that was FREE for them started demanding he do this, and put this into the rom, and blah ****ing blah. PEOPLE these guys and girls do this **** in their free time for FREE. And if you like what they put out then by all means donate. But we have a saying down here "Don't **** with the hands that feed you."
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
Pretty soon if the *****ing and nit picky **** continues the devs will just leave. Kinda like Eugene has done before. Like I said these guys do this **** for free in their spare time for fun but here recently with some of the comments that I seen posted it has kinda taken the fun out of it.
This is a community, basically we are one big android family. We all have a common goal and that is to make our stock phone run at its full potential. Part of the fun of flashing a new rom is seeing all the modifications and themes that were put into it. I have always thought of a new rom like opening a present on Christmas morning when I was like 5 years old. Yeah sure you might have a bad flash or 2 but that's the other part of the fun. Learning how to fix the mistake that was made. That way you learn from your experiences and the next time that happens, hell you will know what to do to fix it.
Im almost done I promise.
In short just use the search bar before posting an issue. I promise the answers you seek are out there. I know because I have had the phone to pc error, the E. Can't mount and I seen that error message several different ways. But also read read read the OP because 9 times out of 10 the devs already know about the issue or have posted what is not working and you should not use that feature of the rom.
Thanks for your time reading this and if it sounds like a madman ranting you can thank tapatalk and the small screen. It was hard to see and that's why there are so many paragraphs. But I felt this has been needing to be said for a while now and reading the cm7 thread tonight was the icebreaker.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
+1
I lurked on the Vibrant forums for a good month and a half before I even made my first post (coincidentally, it was the time when JI6 was going OTA). Before I even made my first Vibrant related post, I knew about the terms Odin and Froyo that doesnt brick and all the other goodies (although I was no expert at the time). It helped me immensely the first time I soft-bricked and it kept me from panic.
Reading is a lost art.
I know if people only read more it would save a lot of headaches.
I agree 100% with the FIRST 3 paragraphs, after that I fell asleep. Search button is everyones friend.
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
vibrant2010 said:
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
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I agree totally!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing I would add is that just skimming over the OP does not get it you need to read it THOROUGHLY AT LEAST TWICE and sometimes three times. I know I have to and even than I am ashamed to say I have not understood key points in the OP. I cannot even imagine how the Dev feels when reading the thread with all of the redundant questions and statements. I am so appreciative to the devs and to this community. Without them I would not have any of the very small level of knowledge and experience(very small) and the confidence to mess with this 250.00 phone. A tip of my hat to the entire community(those that read) and most specifically the DEVS!!!!!!!!!
But,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876777
Is a sticked post on every forum subsection...
Maybe the mods need to post in ALL CAPS!
So chances are... if people don't read the stickies (which answers most of the questions)
Then... well...
I think that the fact that the Vibrant is so difficult to hard brick and people's lack of attention to detail lead to a lot of the dumb questions. While that is annoying, people demanding the devs do this or that and the general rudeness is what really ticks me off. Asking that a feature be added nicely is one thing, but telling them to do something crosses the line. The Frost and MIUI threads are key examples of this. The sense of entitlement around here is dumbfounding.
Have you seen the MIUI thread? Its been cleaned at least 5 times. That thread alone makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. Here's a summary of some of the dipshits that wandered in there:
"I was forced to run this buggy beta on my phone for a week"
"This never should have been released" (never heard of beta testing apparently)
"He's sick? I don't care, updates or I want my money back.....oh wait..."
I love Android, but there are too many ****ing children here with no respect. (Makes me sound like an old man)
Only on the internet, can you have someone who provides an awesome service, at no charge to anyone, and people still be absolute pricks to them.
Haha you remind me of how i used to be on this forum with my crusader posts
unfortunately most of the **** you are talking about WILL NEVER change. its just the way it is. everyone is lazy to a certain degree, but some people are much lazier than others. its just how the world turns. and once you start giving these people hand-outs, for lack of a better term, it will only make it worse.
vibrant2010 said:
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
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+10 on this^^^
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature. I think the problem with most people is they do not know how "find" what they are looking for with ease. For example switching search entire post instead of search title will give information overload in the search results. To even use these options you must select advanced search. But all anyone says is use search. When a noob is faced with 10 pages of results he/she is goin to start a new thread or repeat a post. The op point is valid not new.
ntellegence said:
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature.
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i disagree with you. YES rant threads, in general, accomplish absolutely nothing.
with that said, just because the OP is annoyed with some very relevant problems, does not mean its his responsibility to coach people on basic forum rules. the rules are easily accessible, and honestly....lets not kid ourselves....these people know that the search function is there, they dont need us to tell them.
in fact, id rather see a rant like this than a "search function" thread. "searchsearchsearch" is the oldest ***** in the book. people arent going to search. thats the way it is, theres no reason to start a thread on it, its a problem you can find on ANY forum on the internet......and there are quite a few out there.
in terms of this rant, the OP does bring up some other points that are development specific that are important.
Being on XDA for 3 years, I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
To that, I say I do my best to make sure the stickies have the most common questions and are updated, and I solicit constantly for people to help me monitor/update. I feel the Dev Bible does a good job of this too.
So, ASSUME the searched information is correct.
And yes, do SEARCH!
EDIT, and the OP was so long I gave up on reading it all.
s15274n said:
I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
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this is very true. there are times when you will read something, but youre feeling over-cautious, and you want to just "hear it" directly from someone just to verify.
i really dont have any problem with that at all, its perfectly understandable. problem is its impossible to know when someones doing that, or if theyre just being a sack of sht.
hey am a living proff people learn from mistakes ............LOOK AT ME NOW )
Well said.......
But, people don't read and many that do don't understand what is being said. That contributes to 1/2 the problem,,,,,,But---
Couldn't agree with you more
Failure to search pales in comparison to the flat out disrespect and sense of entitlement shown by some members.
As TopShelf said, getting people to search is a problem that pretty much comes with the territory. Also as was mentioned, people want confirmation, or they feel their situation is somehow unique enough to warrant its own topic/post. We were all new once, so this is understandable.
There is no excuse, however, for the selfish behavior of a lot of these people.
Yes this is a rant thread that offers no real solutions, but short of banning anyone who steps out of line (I am not suggesting this should be done), there aren't really any real solutions. Its just good to vent every now and then, that's why its called a rant.
Problem: People don't read.
Solution: Text-to-speech. (ooo and make it Linda's voice)
Well said.
It's nice to see how passionate some of us can get, and I think that's what makes these forums so good. Sadly there's always going to be these idiots who should have purchased iphones that don't know how to read the OP or follow instructions. They just get flash happy and f*ck up their phones then blame it on the dev's all because they don't know how to read. Sadly what those imbeciles don't realize is that they are slowly getting rid of the dev's who make the roms. Without them we'd be stuck with boring devices.
I'd personally like to see more bans. Ask a question that has been answered in the OP: BOOM, warning. Make that same stupid mistake again, BANNED! XDA needs to start weeding out the morons. This isn't a place for brain dead pot smoking teens who dnt no how 2 sp3ll. It's a place for learning, helping and modding.
Ahh it feels nice to rant.
Paging Dr B said:
XDA needs to start weeding out the morons.
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HAHA say goodbye to 75% of the members, some might say myself included
lets face it, its hard to judge members, because every single member is going to have different opinions about every other member.
mho: they need to enforce the rules more. they need to start disclipining. whether its a 2-post noob, or a 2000-post vet....if someone gets disrespectful....drop the hammer. AND DISPLAY DISCPLINE COUNTS ON USER PROFILE AND WHEREVER THEY POST. we have a "thank you meter", how about a "**** you" meter. bad reputation should be meaured as well, so people know who they are dealing with, and members are held accountable for the way they act.
theres too much politics, and THATS the problem. we have noobs being noobs, but we also have old-timers running around thinking they can say whatever to whoever. and to be honest...i get much more upset when someone gets egotistical rather than when someone doesnt search.
theres too much "internet muscle" on this forum, and frankly its embarassing. some dudes seem to think that just cause they know how to mod a services.jar means they have some sort of special talent, which entitles them to some sort of virtual ego. please dude, it aint that hard, a little modesty never hurt anybody.
NO ONE here should be immune to discipline. from noob to dev....same rules for everybody....that is XDAs biggest weakness.
When I first came to this forum, I was admittedly lost and confused.
I had my Samsung Vibrant for a very short time, and it was giving me non-stop problems; It was nothing; but a headache. I bought the phone believing some of the hyperbole that surrounded it. My previous Samsung (Dumbphone) had worked beautifully for a year until it's touchscreen died. Considering the fact that it featured a "resistive" touchscreen, and factoring in normal wear from daily use. I just couldn't be mad about it. It served it's purpose. This was my reason for purchasing the Samsung Vibrant. I was ready to buy a much better device with a better touchscreen; I had done my homework on Android, and was waiting for the right time to purchase an Android device.
I didn't want the Behold 2; I checked it out, and after handling a live model at the store, it felt cheap and I was a little surprised by that; because the Behold 1 was literally made with REAL Metal etc.
I visited this site, and realized that I could ACTUALLY replace the inoperable ROM
that was leaving my Samsung Vibrant non-functional
I posted my issues looking for answers and was instead attacked vigilantly by developers and other members here
This was the exact opposite of what I was expecting.
I've noticed that Developers here frequently bully other users here, and they have friends who use rogue tactics which cause the developers to close ANY thread which openly criticizes Samsung or T-Mobile in a negative way.
Recently we found out that the creator of the Cyanogen mod was just hired by Samsung!
Based on the response even to the most subtle of my issues
I have had nothing but suspicion since the beginning.
I have been wondering who your company holds in the best interest
Is it the people?
Yourselves?
Or the corporations you seek jobs (and/or) sponsorships from or look to gain sponsorship from?
All I can say is that when your site claims it is for the developers you leave some important things out of the equation.
This site is frequented by regular people who do not have the money or time to go and buy ten different phones to play with.
Some of us don;t have the time to sit there for hours and work on code
There are REGULAR people who are members of this site
they have issues like me, and we do not act like we know everything
we are not selfish and narcissistic.
You have never considered as as a factor
were sick of the bullying and favoritism
and I was the first to fight back
I am asking
What's wrong with XDA?
It's not you, It's me.
The best advice to any new user that I can give is to sit, watch, and read. If you come in your first day and post a question that gets asked on a weekly basis you will be flamed. If you have a reasonable level of tech savy, and watch and read the forums for two weeks or so 90% of your questions will be answered and almost all of those that aren't can be found easily by searching (the xda search function sucks imo but a Google search returns xda pages easily).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Lol Your post really touched me because that's how life and the real world is. Not so much on XDA. If you at least read the first full post and the last page of the thread you will know about any bugs/fixes and won't be flamed for asking the same question. I know it's kind of intimidating when people who build the ROMS tell you your wrong about something and openly express displeasure about having to answer the same question over and over. But you also have to keep in mind that this is an open community and anywhere you go in life or the internet there will be assholes and trolls but 99 percent of the members of this forum are cool people who can relate to not being able to afford 3 phones. Lighten up bud. If you have at least the slightest knowledge about technology and problem solving. You should be just fine. BTW most trolls have 0-25 posts and 0-3 thanks and are juniour members. Just something I thought I'd share.
It be like dat
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
oh, and to answer your question, it sounds like you are the problem with xda. i've never had a problem. i've never blamed samsung or tmob for me purchasing the vibrant (and i love my vibrant), i don't demand or expect anything from the devs, i just appreciate what they do for us and try and help others when i can.
It's about respect bro.
I've only been flashing for a couple months but i was lurking for a month before I posted.
I read, learned, and then asked. I got flamed sure, but now I try to help other users with their repeat questions so the devs don't have to.
Anyway... your post is probably going to fall on deaf ears.
You do not complain ON the site you're complaining ABOUT.
You're wasting your time and venting to the community you're venting about.
Pretty much making people mad at you is all you did
Sorry man.
Vibrant+MIUI
I've been here a while. I just lurk so I don't have to deal with assholes. I also read and use the search to avoid asking questions. 98% of the time my questions have already been asked and I find the answer myself.
Hey MicBeast, how did that class action law suit go for you? Make any more songs about it?
Its funny how you sound self righteous here, when I remember a much different person starting a lot of drama when I first saw your name popping up around here, a simple search and anyone can read that whole soap opera.
But hey, this is just one man's opinion.
Sent from my ZenDroid, meditating on the XDA App
Dude....
Something uncomfy crawl up your pants leg ?
I've asked plenty of questions on this site....always got the answer (granted a few asswipes always show).
I've *****ed about both Slambung and Tblowbile, no one bad mouthed me for it.
Hell, I have a Motorola Photon on Sprint now (yes, it WAS that bad).
I don't see the problem.
If you don't like it.....walk the hell away.
Not one soul forced you to be here.
MicBeast, I just skimmed your 125 posts.
I will not say much, but maybe you should really think about what's wrong with xda... Keeping in mind that xda is a place for developing predominantly.
I've never had this kind of experience personally, and I actively discourage it in my thread. My thread its full of helpful nice posts and great individuals. I don't do this for any reason but the love of doing so, and never plan on doing it any other way. Its rude, insulting, and wrong to generalize anyone, you have only interacted with a fraction of the people on here. Once you have spoken with EVERY person, then you can make a statement, for now, please refrain from these gross generalizations.....
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I thought you have an Iphone now? So why are you lurking on these forums still?
You have nothing better to do than to waste your time harassing people you don't know on the internet?
If I remember correctly, I've seen YOU bullying quite a few different members. Causing much more drama than any developer I've ever seen.
XDA is for developers to share and "develop" their work, share ideas, etc... They don't necessarily have to be every newbie's personal tech support agent. They can help who they want on their own free will... And if they don't feel like being nice, or get fed up with the same questions asked over and over again, then by all means let them. No one is paying them, and they certainly aren't bound by any contracts.
This isn't a service, there's no 1800 number to call and complain to. It's a public forum, so deal with it. Take some time and appreciate the information that this forum is bulging at the seams with, for free, for anyone to learn.
I just looked at ur post an yea u are what is wrong with xda u go around an complain about how things aren't working troubleshoot it ur self an what about that iPhone which is "better" than android go to whatever fourm they have an just go away :-/
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Ok..here we go:
The name of the site should be a clear shot of what this site is all about, XDADEVELOPERS.COM.
Secondly...what's "wrong" with this site is the same as any other site...some members, either old or new, that think that they opinion is more valuable than other and for that they tend to bully themselves around
Third...why even start a thread about this topic when you clearly know the reaction it's going to cause...in my book that is considered a type of trolling and even though I'm up for trolling the OT fora every now and then, do not agree with threads that will stir up the pot (if you know what I'm mean )
Hence, thread closed.
Best regards with your future endeavors mate...come back and visit