Database Users

Blue Stacks Beta Is Available.

Hey Guys
The beta of blue stacks in now available. Now u can run Android app on windows Downloading on CP now. Will post later how it is

I would not install it, caused me to get bluescreens after reboot

I have just installed it, played angry bird space and it works fine for me.

1/2asleep said:
I have just installed it, played angry bird space and it works fine for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On Windows 8?
I can't get BlueStacks to run in Windows 8 at all. Every time I run the installer I get a blue screen with a frown face saying that something went wrong and Windows needs to restart. I have been testing the private beta build on Windows 7 though and it is definitely fun and useful

After Few blue screen restarts it worked. Uninstalled it because it not what i expected to be. I cant run any app in full screen. I run in only a portion and i cant use gmail and angry birds because of some high performance driver issue. The alpha version before this was better.

At the moment, this is so bad

Thanks for the heads up! Going to try this.

I really wanted to try it on my Windows 8 netbook but the Thinstaller executable they gave me refused to install because my it claimed my graphics performance would be under the minimum recommended requirement. It was rather sad since the Alpha worked fine and even running the same version of Android they base their rootfs images off of (Android-x86) as a addition to my Linux dual-boot.

buggatti said:
After Few blue screen restarts it worked. Uninstalled it because it not what i expected to be. I cant run any app in full screen. I run in only a portion and i cant use gmail and angry birds because of some high performance driver issue. The alpha version before this was better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows 8? I tried as many as 8 blue screen restarts so far. No luck. Still keeps crashing my system into the BSOD. Did alpha work on Windows 8 CP x64?

I was part of the closed beta 1 test and have been in email communication with Bluestacks development and they informed me that they do not have a beta ready for Windows 8 because it is still changing. It sounds like the focus is on Windows 7 for now.

Pls provide download links.....
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA

nitin1978 said:
Pls provide download links.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://bluestacks.com/

nobody wants this cancer on their computers

Be on the lookout for this (when or if) it comes out
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-33377_1-57355786/bluestacks-goes-metro-with-windows-8/

o2neouzr said:
nobody wants this cancer on their computers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, Bluestacks should be avoided. They have no support forums (personal top gripe) and have made it quite clear they plan to try to make a quick buck leveraging VirtualBox and Android x86 while not giving anything back.
As best I can tell, they have just added an OpenGL pass through driver to Android x86 when running on VB as well as started to recompile some apps which use the ARM NDK to the x86 NDK. Far better to have the Android x86 community work on an automated NDK conversion and their own driver implementation than be shackled.
Also, their TOS lets them abuse your facebook page in new and interesting ways as well as do some serious data mining without any form of opt-out or transparency.

There are support forums:
https://getsatisfaction.com/bstk
BlueStacks even went as far as supplying a link on how to root and install gapps. I wouldn't say there is a lack of support. BlueStacks in my opinion also runs faster than x86 on a virtual machine.

aaronb1138 said:
Indeed, Bluestacks should be avoided. They have no support forums (personal top gripe) and have made it quite clear they plan to try to make a quick buck leveraging VirtualBox and Android x86 while not giving anything back.
As best I can tell, they have just added an OpenGL pass through driver to Android x86 when running on VB as well as started to recompile some apps which use the ARM NDK to the x86 NDK. Far better to have the Android x86 community work on an automated NDK conversion and their own driver implementation than be shackled.
Also, their TOS lets them abuse your facebook page in new and interesting ways as well as do some serious data mining without any form of opt-out or transparency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Virtualbox and android are licensed under GPLv2/CDDL and apache respectively. Android specifically is exactly the same as stock device roms, they're under no obilgation to return code to upstream. (though every large project like this should return code, but bar the kernel they dont have to for the android portion).
virtualbox, i'm guessing they're using CDDL for it if they're not returning code.
Tell oracle (or whoever is developing it) and the android x86 teams to not release their sources under free software licenses that arnt also copyleft then.
At least with androidx86 I believe that they're free to migrate from apache -> gplv3 (according to wikipedia I dont believe gplv2 is applicable without relicensing?). But they didnt, they're still apache, which means they full well know that they can be forked and not have code returned.
Those two points are pretty much universally expected for android devices. Samsung and HTC are good enough that they provide mode then the minimal GPL modules, but they're closer to the exception then the norm. There's plenty of very low end (but inexpensive) ICS tabs being hawked on our own market. I cant really see them giving more then the bare minimum (even if that) much less providing any updates at all. They're just as much making a quick buck by only offering updates by buying a new model.
They've havnt required facebook since 0.5.0.2002, which I believe was their first public release. It was merely the cloud client that required it. You can easily use the alphas and betas without even having a facebook acct. I cant speak on how they are about people that actually opt-ed in to attachign their FB accts, but I dont have one period.
Perhaps their cloud sync isnt respecting your privacy as it should, because you right about that part. Bstacks doesnt have a clear privacy policy (or any at all on their site currently)
They're not the only ones using getsatisfaction, which acts as their support point. I cant say that I like it, but it's there. They've added a couple suggestions due to it, but it's not a forum.
Realistically, how long do you have to wait for androidx86 to be bundled in a way that lets you run it in a vm, have fair virtualization/emulation, and is stable? (though bstacks is still beta, and androidx86 is 'rc1') Androidx86 is targeting bare metal, bstacks isnt. Perhaps androidx86 actually runs perfectly well under a vm and also supports some level of hardware passthough too. Their site has instructions for using the eeepc froyo iso on virtualbox. But they obviously dont officially support virtualbox or qemu as they dont provide direct images, they merely happen to work/boot on them.
Androidx86 has 5 different isos targeting 5 different platforms, and none of them match my devices (or any of my vms explicitly). Bstacks explicitly supports vista/7 and implicitly is going to support xp/8 in the future.
I'd much rather have something working now that targets my interests then wait for something that might be more sustainable but isnt targeting me.
It's much like how xda has moto droid forums, really you shouldnt be supporting moto at least when it comes to their locked down bootloaders.
But we're not telling people to buy a different device, we give them workarounds and guides.
Finally, all bstacks is is just an opengl passthough, why has noone else done it already?
I dont expect that androidx86 on virtualbox integrates as well otherwise it'd already be huge news.
I want a virtualized android so my convertable laptop can double as a really high end android tablet, and that's what bstacks will eventually offer.
(if and when they migrate from 2.3.4 to 4.0.x)
If there's any errors, feel free to correct me. I'm rather unsure about how correct I am on the virtualbox parts.
Edit: after trying androidx86 2.3/3.2/4.0 it's fairly useless as a android tablet replacement. They dont support VM integration, and that's pretty much a requirement if you intend to use it to compliment your OS (vs merely being a utility on your os).
4.0 doesnt even work on vb with vb 4.1.8, it cant reach the home screen.
Dont take this as criticism of androidx86 though, they're always going to be undermanned and underfunded. And like previously mentioned VB isnt even a tier 1 target for them.
But realistically, there's no current alternative to bstacks for windows. Seriously suggesting androidx86 + virtualbox right now is like saying to trade for a transformer to someone asking how to install CM9 on the touchpad

moved to general - not dev

[Q] Few general questions - before I buy tablet now

Hi (sorry for length of the post!),
I am on the verge of getting new tablet.
I have good, old iPad 1 but unfortunately it is more toy than tool.
I have decided that device like Transformer (hybrid tablet/laptop) would be perfect for what I do. Till few days ago I was all set to wait for such a device with Win8 on-board... but now I am not so sure anymore.
Perhaps you will be able to help me make a good choice.
Currently during day I use at least two PC's with Win7 (and Windows Live services) + Google Chrome and iPad.
As much as I like iPad I hate that it can not sync (in full) like two PC's and especially Chrome (not to mention the lack of keyboard).
Because as I wrote I use Live services I was thinking that by the end of the year I should get a Windows Phone device (few of the things I need to know about WP are here, can you help? : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1643996), Win8 for desktop and tablet with Win8 onboard.
From what I read Win8 will be much more "closed" when compared to prev. vers of Windows.
Questions are:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
All insights are welcome!

Sry, didn't have the time to answer all of your questions but hopefully some parts will be clearer in some minutes ^^
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
4.) If Google is willing to release Chrome for Windows 8 RT (the ARM version), you will be able to install it on all your W8 devices. But you could buy a x86 tablet and the desktop version of Chrome will run.
So, have to go...
Some last words: Tablets with x86 are just like a desktop pc for win7 with a touchscreen, a new look and feel and in one little case

galtom said:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps. So an ARM version will force you unless you: Have a developer account, Are on a Domain, or Use an items signed by a trusted cert provider and make some registry settings.
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
galtom said:
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
galtom said:
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
galtom said:
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
galtom said:
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 yes. Metro requires an App. I use this today on Windows 8.
galtom said:
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 is completely open. ARM is restricted to things that install on ARM, and in most cases to things that are acquired through the METRO store (except for the exceptions listed in item 1
galtom said:
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.

most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too

First of all thank you all for your time (and answers).
Since (as usual) answers to questions raise new questions... we... here we go
hanswurst24 said:
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I am not so sure... and I think even for MS "all this" might be a problem.
On one hand they should not change "philosophy" of Windows because no one would swap Win7 to Win8 if they would have to buy all software form 1 (or few) stores only).
On the other hand Windows Phone is showing the way they want to/would like to go (which company would not want to make extra cash on apps the way Apple, Google and Amazon are doing??? - to find balance will not be easy).
All this shows (in my opinion) another problem - system fragmentation. Only iOS is safe as Apple has full control over system and devices (but THANK GOD - is not that stubborn on geo/market restrictions as Google or Ms).
If you remember how confusing for customers it was with Vista and Win7 versions imagine what will happen now?
To be honest (if those versions RT and x86) will differ so much in terms of practicability, options, openness, functions of hardware I cant imagine how everything will be introduced, market and advertised in order for "Mr Average Joe" to comprehend and not run back next day to the shop with complaints - about system, software, compatibility, etc...
Looks like a pure nightmare and I think this is the reason (they do not know what to do exactly with all this mess) we have so little information on how it all is going to work and c0-work with each other :-(
2). You see... as far as I know if I would buy Windows Phone (or RT Win8 tablet - by the end of the year) I will be limited to apps available only in my location. If Live ID is assigned to UK than forget (even free!) apps for US market (and others). In my case it is a disaster... For my pleasure and entertainment I use apps (on iOS and Android [if I can find them - it is way more difficult than on iOS] from UK, US and Poland.
Installing Netflix or BBC iPlayer on a dive form other parts of the world on iOS is very simple and does not require any hacking/rooting/jaibrakes/etc/.
On Android one has to know how to root the device and than simply search the net... not alwys finding what he/she wants.
On Windows Phone if you create new Live ID (like on iOS), switching those equals HARD RESET of the device.
If that will be the case with Win8 RT... that is a very bad news! Even if x86 ver will have less restrisctions those news will be bad for ARM manufacturers as they will get like "handicapped" system when compared to x86... - would you be happy about it if you were Nvidia or Qualcomm?
hanswurst24 said:
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it will, maybe it will not... question are:
- will it at all?
- how difficult it will be to install (root? bootloader? other restrictions? unauthorized software when compared to what your Live ID has bought from the shop?)
- how many AVERAGE people will want to go into all this mess?
michiganenginerd said:
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... if there will DESKTOP mode on Win8 RT don't you think it will limit its general appeal. If it will be so restricted, without desktop mode... why would you want it over Android?
michiganenginerd said:
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you are right... this move from MS would mean that hardly anyone will buy ARM version of the system -> ARM devices with Win8 will not sell. If that would be the case what would be the point for ARM ver of Win8 in first place if no sane manufacturer would invest money to produce devices that can not compete with x86 devices because of system they have. Unless they are very, VERY cheap (looking at cost of Android devices is not making me hopeful in this matter) or if people do not much care for the system but for batt. life - again why would you want Win8 over Android or (well established) iOS. It is worth to remember that it will be even more difficult to win customers who already own Android or iOS device - there is a good chance that they have spend quite a lot of cash so far on apps.
QUESTION (off topic): if you got iOS, purchased apps are assigned to account, not device -> meaning if you buy an app for iPad 1 you can still use it on iPad3. How dose it work on Windows Phone and Android devices?
michiganenginerd said:
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proxy/VPN is not a problem - problem is in Live ID that is assigned to a specific country during creation and registration. In this case your IP does not matter. It is the same with Google Play. Once you have your Google account you can connect to the store form any location but it will not allow you ti install software not in your market (even if you can see it).
michiganenginerd said:
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if it will be so difficult with getting those apps it might influence sales and opinions outside of the US.
It looks to me that if only manufacturers of x86 devices will resolve problem with heating and active cooling (which imho have no please on tablet or hybrid laptop) it will be the only ver of Win8 that will make sense to buy.
Shame, as I would love to have "all this freedom" on an ARM device - I do not need computing power on mobile device but I also do not want to be limited in what I can install and from where/who.
michiganenginerd said:
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happens now 9on x86 Win8) if you try to add shortcut to Chrome on Metro UI? It dose not shows... or what?
If so, you mean you can lunch any software from desktop but not from metro screen? Does not make much sense... does it?
I understand that a "Metro app" will be easier to use and more touch friendly that current range of apps designed for mouse but still... it should be my choice. If I want to use it let me start it from any interface.
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering buying now something like TF Prime or TF 300 - it might do what I need. And with some outside help (perhaps from here) beside usual stuff I should be able to get VPN client, Hulu +, Netflix and BBC on it. I am not worried about text editors as there should be quite few of those that will work with docx files and skydrive and hotmail.
And if Win8 will be a hit (I already bought Vista on a first day of sale - never again the same mistake! ) than I will consider getting it for my desktop and perhaps swapping a hybrid mobile device.
Does it make sense?
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what I wrote above .
dazza9075 said:
most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I see your points, but...
It is still long wait for Win8, devices, decent reviews, all the hype and prices to settle and actual (physical) choice in the shop. I remember all the hype about competition to iPad 1 when it came out - it took almost a over year for devices to get to shops (remember CES and MWC in 2010 and 2011) - it is 2012 and not all devices are here.
How long it took Xoom to get to shops outside USA...?
Although Win8 (RT as well???) will go on sale after holidays... time for actual devices with the system (laptops, ultrabooks, netbooks, desktops, all in one PC's, tablets and hybrid tablets [have I missed anything?]) to get to the shop is a whole different story.
Meaning.... if it will take another (at least) 6-8 months to have an actual choice in the shops is it worth to wait and suffer in the mean time? But if I do get a TF300/Prime now - will I need a Win8 replacement for it?

sounds like you already made your mind up what you want to do and that Win 8 will not be as good as we think.
So perhaps save yourself to hassle and don't bother with it.
As for buying now that's up to you, but Win 8 wont be that long, hardware will be out soon and if you don't want that new hardware the older stuff will be a lot cheaper. 8 months after launch is way to far down the line, MS will be bending OEMs over backwards to get hardware out for launch.
You would be completely Bonkers buying now, we are about to get an RC of win 8, ARM will be getting developed in parallel, OEMs will have hardware taped out already to test the OS, which is something Apple doesn't have to worry too much about as they build the OS and hardware around one another where as Windows needs to support it all hence the longer development cycle and early gear in the wild
IF you get something now, there is no guarantee it will work or work well with Win RT or x86, so yes, potentially you will need to get new gear, and of course Win RT is OEM only meaning you can only get it with hardware soo.... you choice I guess.

As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
galtom said:
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
You have two types of devices: Windows & Windows RT
You have two types of applications: Metro & Classic
RT devices are low power tablets running metro only.
Windows devices are likely to be ultrabooks, convertible laptops, and desktops running what they run today.
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Not letting Diablo II & HALO run on Windows RT isn't just an arbitrary restriction. It won't run. It wasn't written, compiled, and tested on an ARM architecture.
galtom said:
Restrictions / curation:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
galtom said:
Flash Support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
galtom said:
Why would I buy Win8 RT over android if it is restricted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
galtom said:
It is still long wait for Win8 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.

michiganenginerd said:
As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is true but only to a point.
At the moment I think I will give ICS on Asus TF a try and byt the end of the year if x86 tablets with W8 will get good reviews I think I will jump the ship.
My concern (I had Asus 1201n with Atom 330 onboard and have Samsung NC10) is performance of current Atom chips - is it really better (forget about watching smooth YT video on NC10 - and it is not a problem on iPad!).
Heat! - cant have tablet with active cooling system.
Weight! - the likes of current fliptop netbook/tablets its just not nice (heavy and hot).
Battery life - 8h is a must (basically x86 W8 tablet [with a dock] has to be able to work (videos, internet, e-mail - nothing very heavy) to work 1 day
michiganenginerd said:
Originally Posted by galtom
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not exactly what I have asked or at least not what I meant.
It is clear from me that x86 and ARM are two different platforms and I have never, ever expected old software to work on ARM devices.
But! If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT? If someone wants to create an ARM app that will support both modes, if users will want to use it...? Why not let us have the option to do so.
Second is the limitation of the sources of the software.
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is. But since iOS i way ahead of Windows and there is lots of Android devices on the market I can not see this as a PLUS point for W-RT, quite opposite.
W-RT (and devices with this system) will have to compete with:
- iOS: that is well marketed, well known, still cool, less restricted (no problem in swapping iTunes accounts), people already spend cash on software for their iPads, there is Office for iOS + lots of other business & entertainment software - why would current Apple customers ditch iPads?
Why would and iOS device owner said - OOO, another closed and restricted enviromet just looking different - I want it! - somehow I do not see that happening
- Android: envelope of openness that surrounds Android, no problem with root, community support, ROMS, apps from Google (or from wherever you want), probably a bit lower prices of devices, as iOS (in most cases) works with all Microsoft services + points as in iOS - folks have already spent cash on software, some devices are already in second or third generation
- Windows 8 x86 it has everything W-RT has + lots of more. Beats iOS and Android in terms of software availability, it is basically what you now have on desktop and laptop but with the proper support for touch (when you need it), if Intel&Friends will solve problems of weight/heat/battery life and price range will not be as for current line of Windows tablets it looks like a winner to me.
Having said (wrote) all that - why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things :-(
+ Office for iOS should be here any moment (I thought it is already out). As much as MS would love to ignore iOS and keep Office out of iPAD I do not think they can. how many millions devices is already out there? If only 25% of those people would want one of Office products... its quite a lot of cash...
+ to all points above - there is also a question of price of the software for all platforms and system itself.
What's more, considering how big profit Apple is making on iPad it seems as lots of room for price adjustment once Windows8 & RT devices are out.
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite true, but since I miss this sort of functionality every day (and I doubt I am only one) why not go for TF300 or TF Prime now?
There is nothing wrong with those devices and when I look at ICS and what RT will bring to table I do not see any reasonable points that would convince me to wait (that was the reason I wrote here - to see I my line of thinking is correct. So far (unfortunately for W-RT) you have not wrote that I am wrong or that I have misunderstood something about Windows RT.
The only thing worth considering are devices with x86 Windows onboard but:
- its still few months (in the mean time I could give ICS a try?
- they are unknown in terms of battery/heat/weight and price!
Windows RT seems like a great idea that was f...up during creation. If Windows RT would be first on the market (before iPad with iOS and Android) - no problem. They could do all that and people would still get it... nowadays, whey MS is trying to chase others... I do not really see it happening with Windows 8 RT looking as it is.
It is pretty similar to situation with Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either. In some case is like or a bit worse than iOS in some it is like or a bit worse than Android - but it is not BETTER.
And just look how iPhone and Android phones are selling. look where is manufacturers focus.
Samsung/LG/Sony/HTC - how many Android models and how many WP models?
I got strange felling that W-RT will share the same fate. It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
michiganenginerd said:
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.[/qoute]
Yes, and there is nothing wrong with this... especially that (I hope) with x86 version we will always keep the choice where we want our software to get from.
Looking at the history (of thing in general) I can not remember 1 good exaple where introduction of more and additional restrictions actually worked well. It is against human nature.
If in 10-15 Windows will become completely shut... than Linux (or something else) might raise its head and actually win hearts of customers - like Apple did not so far ago!
michiganenginerd said:
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can not agree! It is bad for every one - even developers as they will be forced to accept any policy and conditions from Microsoft (similar to what it is right now with Apple ).
Limiting the choice is never good for anyone beside "The Man" in control.
michiganenginerd said:
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with recent news that RT will not support other browser but its own, best it is another point against this system.
It looks to me as MS is doing all it actually can to make it bad.
michiganenginerd said:
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY! If all above is true... who is going to get W-RT???
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying, who dont really need it and who will not really use it (will not buy additional apps). Because if they do, if that will think before they buy... W-RT will be the last on the list (unless it will be the cheapest - which I doubt!)
michiganenginerd said:
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only there would be an x86 ver of transformer with no fans to cool it down I would already be on it and this thread would not exist.
I just wanted to make sure that I am not missing something about Windows RT or situation in general.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Short version:
W-RT is not for targeted at You, I, or many xda-readers. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a place or that the option existing is bad.
galtom said:
Heat, Weight, Battery Life!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel is getting closer, but you just can't pull off an iPad size / weight device with 8h+ battery life on x86. The tech isn't there yet.
galtom said:
If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
W-RT is OEM only. It is meant to be an 'appliance' not a PC.
Whether you agree with the approach or not, the justifications for limiting are somewhat explained here:
Microsoft's Windows chief Steven Sinofsky:
If we enabled the broad porting of existing code we would fail to deliver on our commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time. The conventions used by today's Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ndows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
galtom said:
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Less immediate need to jailbreak it. There are supported methods of sideloading, but I am sure there will be other people who extend it beyond that.
galtom said:
why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Joe may work for a BYOD company, or Joe is buying for his company.
Joe may be my Father, who would like a tablet device he could do email, netflix, hulu, office, and wireless screencasting.
Some Joe's this will work for, other's it won't. We have to recognize, just because we aren't the target market doesn't mean their isn't one.
Many Joe's will buy an iPad or an Android, some will buy W-RT, some will buy none of the above.
A device that is 300-500 dollars, that comes with a free copy of office, and integrates well with a enterprise, has a market.
galtom said:
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excel, OneNote, PowerPoint and Word are expected to support all of the same Office 15 x86 features.
galtom said:
Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, except in the base security model, and as a feature phone replacement. The phone is massively ahead in terms of sandboxing and enforcing secure practices. It would also be a better phone in terms of ease of use and simplicity for a subset of users. Would I replace my Android with it? no. But that doesn't mean it doesn't do some things well, and that their are users who would find the experience simpler than iPhone or Android when buying their first smartphone.
galtom said:
It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does something have to be an 'iPad Killer' for there to be a place for it? Why is choice a bad thing?
galtom said:
Restrictions .... bad for every one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For some consumers the security and curation makes their experience better, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For some developers the market will be better than one not existing, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For most people on this board the restrictions outweigh the upside.
As a developer, while I hate the restrictions Apple and MS impose, I also now have a market to sell to that did not exist 10 years ago.
I will continue to be a proponent of more open options, and an end to restrictions put in place to support a business model rather than architecture or security, but that doesnt' mean that the app store's existance is a net negative on my life.
galtom said:
RT will not support other browser but its own
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. RT will not support other browsers in 'Classic / Desktop' mode.
I think MS should work with major vendors to allow them to deliver 'classic' mode applications on ARM, but this isn't a ban on other browsers, it's a ban on all software that does not run in the sandbox.
galtom said:
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I share concern in this area. I believe that most people who bought netbooks did not get what they expected.
I do think there is a place for these devices for a larger group of users than netbooks had a place for.
But I do think they need to make sure it is sold / marketed in a way that makes it clear what it is, and what it is not.
I will probably get my Father one for Christmas. I probably will not get one of my own. Different users have different needs, hopefully the marketing, sales, and staffs at stores do a better job of directing them.

Is Microsoft risking too much with windows phone 8?

Yo, so I installed the windows phone 8 SDK today, only to figure out that most computers in this world will not run this SDK's emulator.
You will need in an i3 or better CPU from intel or equivalent from AMD (aka latest generation) to run the emulator.
You also have to run this emulator on windows 8 x64 (yep, it HAS to be x64, otherwise it won't work). This, by itself, asks for at least 4 GB of RAM to run the system at a decent speed, also forces you to upgrade to windows 8 (i got it for free due to msdn) and to get Visual Studio 12.
This is, in my opinion, a terrible move from microsoft.
Not everybody has CPUs that have all the requirements. In fact, not even all the newest CPUs have this requirement (Second Level Address Translation it is called). This, automatically, makes developers like me either:
get a new PC
Get a windows phone 8 device.
Luckily for me i have a fairly new laptop, which has an i3 CPU capable to run this stupid emulator.
On top of that, there comes the non-backward compatibility from wp8 to wp7.5 apps. Applications compiled for windows phone 8 SDK will not work on Windows phone 7.5, unless you make another project for 7.5, compile it as dll and reference it from your 8 app. This is kinda overkill.
Windows phone 8 will probably bring in a lot of users, but for developers, it is a blow to the head. I bet windows phone 8 submissions will be very, very low in the next 1 to 2 years.
So, is microsoft risking a bit too much with the switch from 7.5 to 8? On top of all the development slaughter, there's the non-upgradable old devices...

Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore and I guess most of them know that. Just look at the front page, not even a single article/news about the Windows (Phone) 8 launch events. It's just android. Even the forum sections for the HTC 8X/S and Samsung ATIV S are missing whereas all the new Google devices have been added shortly after their announcement. So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.

morpheuszg said:
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore ....So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?

Are there any lol? I saw about 6 new apps, and one of them (Pandora) won't be out until sometime in 2013!
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.

vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All in all WP8 announcement was not that good...
also, they didn't release the SDK for us devs in order to build nice apps ready to be distributed for new win8 devices...Making us wait for months like if winphone had killer features hidden..and then it was the same old stuff so... i'm also considering to jump the android ship...

StevieBallz said:
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?

ohgood said:
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
64 bit is likely to not be the big issue here. I haven't seen to many 32 bit Windows 7 machines. The more problematic move is to lock out everyone who is not using Windows 8. Given that students have access to Windows 8, Visual Studio and the Marketplace for free through Dreamspark that does not sound as that big an issue to me.
In the end it seems they had a reason to go with Hyper-V and Windows-8 simply is the only Desktop operating system which has Hyper-V functionality. The biggest problem is that hardware that is older then 2 years does not support the needed virtualization modes.
How the ecosystem argument plays into this I don't really understand but I guess you meant: new OS that has not that big an installed base yet. Well 4 million upgrades over the last 4 days, not counting the people who bought it with new Hardware or downloaded it from MSDN or Dreamspark it seems to go big rather quickly.

The emulator is a crucial part of application development.
I don't think you want to bring in your early app in alpha stages or even earlier than that on your phone, simply because:
a) you don't have it.
b) Your code might cause damage to the phone, especially on things that use hardware components like vibrators, camera, leds and stuff like that. An unleaded exception can wreck havoc on your phone.
c) The emulator is faster.
Yes, you will eventually need a windows phone 8 device before you publish it, but you should be able to develop your apps before you even have one...
The windows 8 issue is not big. The upgrade from win7 costs like 50 bucks. It is really not that much of an effort.
The insane hardware requirements are, however, and most PCs will not have them. From intel's side, only i3, i5 and i7 processors have what they need, and Pentium dual core for sandy bridge won't...
This is the biggest issue here.

ohgood said:
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm just a noob, but i think when the devs don't hang out here they hang out nowhere or compared to android extremely rare so that it makes no sense to spend time on...
I wish WP8 RT a good future with Dualboot Android.

Android on Intel chip hardware project

Ok, I want to start out by mentioning; some of you may or may not know about a project I've been working on since March 2013, the Android Desktop OS which is now in version 2.0.
Can test the interactive demo online here: http://invis.io/95IKINK4
I've been on this project by myself, putting together ideas and re-imagining how Android should be on a desktop. Now, I know that Android x86 does exist, so please don't announce that android on the pc has been done already, because it's not how I envision any of this.
I think also they have started this as a hobby with no real distinct intention, I started my idea to give Android a very bright future. I believe as well as many others who are excited for this project that Android could be massive on desktops.
Yes, I know that it is written with a Linux kernel and it is aimed for mobile, but my goal is to change that. I want it to be able to run all the apps from the Market Place in it's normal fashion without anything complicated, but I want the core of this, the heart of this to be written for Intel hardware for starters.
I know there are some guys wrote some Intel hardware code for android, but I don't think they did it to be anything major. I want to take this to a whole new level, I really want this project out there, I want it to stand out.
Why does Windows, Mac and Ubuntu get pc and mobile counterparts but not Android? I feel personally it isn't quite fair and that Android should have its potential shown.
For those of you who have never seen my project, you can check it here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2214161
Everything is still subject to change, but overall I am happy with what I have. I want to advance on Android without steering away from the heart of it. There are more ideas I have, but have been short on time with doing what I want.
Now here comes the icing.
I am stuck at a crossroad; I need a team, I need to find those who are just as interested in this as I am, but I don't know where to find them. I've posted this in numerous places without much coming back as far as coders.
I've been told to do a kickstarter, but I don't know the first thing about it, how to find the people, manage the money, who to trust, bring this to completion etc... So this brings me back to square one, where I just continue to develop this idea in it's visual form, because I don't know what to do.
I have been dedicated to making this happen for a long time, this can and will be a long term career, but I need the man power, those who believe in this. But where to find it? I figured since the internet is vast people would come at least wanting to give it a crack, but it has been dry out here.
I am open to feedback and really hope this can get off the ground.

Android on Ativ Tab 3

i want to install android on ativ 3 , is that possible? , what version do you guys recommend? has anyone tried that? Thank you!
here you can see it

Bump?

Wow, it seems i bought a nono... it seems no one has it or ever heard of it...

It does indeed seem that way. Since it runs "real" Windows you can probably use something like BlueStacks on it? Actually installing Android (and having it work) will require driver support in Android which may not exist; even fairly popular Windows tablet lines like the Surface Pro family have driver troubles in Android.

I've been doing a lot of research on this tablet. Ended up picking up a refurb for $250, and with 64GB I'd like to do a dual boot if possible.
However, looking at Wikipedia, there isn't a single tablet with the Atom Z2760 with Android. They're all running Windows 8.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(system_on_chip)
I'm an amateur developer, finishing up my CS degree this Spring. If someone more experienced than me thinks this is actually possible, I'll look into trying to make it happen. If there are any resources that may be relevant, post them or send me a PM.

I own a Samsung ATIV Tab 3 as well. I have not been using it since after updating to windows 10 it has become extremely slow. On the other hand I really like the pen and its responsiveness.
Have you found any way to install android or another light OS?
Ideally I would like to utilize the device as a digital notepad.

Currently, there are Bliss OS or Prime OS but I am testing Prime OS, I don't expect straightforward and easy installation but let's hope for the best...

@UserBroskyXDA, have you been successfull with Prime OS ? I have windows 10 running on my machine and its extremely slow.