I have started a dialog with Rogers whereby I am asking nicely for them to honor the licenses which are listed in:
[Home]->[Menu]->[Settings]->[About phone]->[Legal information]->[Open source licenses]
The first source code I have requested is for the file /kernel listed in the above mentioned [Open source licenses].
An email sent nearly 24 hours ago has not been acknowledged by Rogers, despite the fact that their Contact Us email portal indicated that I would receive an acknowledgement within 24 hours.
Consequently, I called Rogers and managed to get a Rogers representative to email me back indicating that next business day (Monday) s/he would try to point me to the right person within Rogers.
Let's see if we can change what shows up when you search "Open Source" on the Rogers web site:
http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=search&Ntt=Open+Source
erdroid said:
I have started a dialog with Rogers whereby I am asking nicely for them to honor the licenses which are listed in:
[Home]->[Menu]->[Settings]->[About phone]->[Legal information]->[Open source licenses]
The first source code I have requested is for the file /kernel listed in the above mentioned [Open source licenses].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The actual kernel is written by HTC, but good idea, ask Rogers to point us in the right direction because we haven't gotten anywhere asking HTC directly.
Here's an update for you. I've been contacting HTC customer service for a month now, and I've had my issue escalated to a VP at HTC America. I relayed to him all the hassle I've been put through for something they're legally responsible to provide, and the story I heard is as such:
HTC was asked by Rogers to make some last minute changes, but they didn't specify what. They were also asked to withhold source code for reasons that HTC wouldn't comment on. Basically, the representative confirmed that Rogers specifically asked HTC to do this. So I had the issue escalated to a VP at HTC America. After a month of hassle, and the final escalation earlier this week, here is the email response I got back today from the VP today.
David,
Thank you very much for your note and more importantly, thank you for your business and loyalty to HTC products. We owe all of our success to you and customers like you. I also want to thank you for taking the time to write me personally and communicating specific areas where we can improve in our customer service. I will investigate the issue and get back to you by Tuesday, 7/28 at the latest. Additionally, I will have our Head of Customer Service drive our Call Centers to do a better job of communicating, particularly on this issue. My apologies for the time you've had to invest in this to date.
All the best,
Jason
Jason B. Mackenzie
Vice President, North America Region
E-Mail: (Removed, but not hard to find)
So while it isn't "source code in my hand", it's at least *something*. I'll provide more info as it becomes available to me for sure.
Wow, bullet dodging everywhere. I talked to some folks from Google and they don't have the code we are looking for, that's for certain. HTC blames Google, Google blames HTC, HTC blames Rogers. How complex is this problem really? It's probably 5 lines of code that they changed. We need to get past their buffer-wall of customer support and talk to someone in engineering.
PhaseBurn said:
HTC was asked by Rogers to ... withhold source code ...confirmed that Rogers specifically asked HTC to do this.
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Click to collapse
So Rogers asked HTC to break the law and they complied?
Can we get this confirmed in writing? An email (with headers) from an official at HTC stating that such a request was made regarding kernel source would help. If we do that, we would have the silver bullet we need to go after robbers AND htc in civil court -- think class action, and we should get some major kernel contributors and open source advocates on board-- I'm sure that LOTS of people would LOVE to take up this cause.
My prediction: if there was a class action civil case organized naming rogers and htc as defendants, htc will fold and hand out the source, probably quickly. Rogers... maybe not because they're bastards.
I'm pretty sure they are having some meetings about that internally at HTC right now because I inquired about the source from HTC 3 days ago and they still haven't replied to me, not even a canned response. I'm pretty sure they are investigating right now how they can give us source while not giving away whatever they are trying to hide.
lbcoder said:
So Rogers asked HTC to break the law and they complied?
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No, I don't believe this is a violation of the GPL, and some quick googling tells me that the FSF agrees (see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowNDA)
Even though Rogers would be in violation for distributing a modified kernel without source, HTC would not be.
Northsun said:
No, I don't believe this is a violation of the GPL, and some quick googling tells me that the FSF agrees (see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowNDA)
Even though Rogers would be in violation for distributing a modified kernel without source, HTC would not be.
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You're correct, and unless somebody who has code in the linux kernel they're shipping wants to file suit, we can't go after them legally as we aren't representative of somebody being damaged by their copyright infringement, despite that it hurts us. Stupid copyright law, even under the GPL, requires an author of the material to go after the company.
HTC designed the phone, and customized it for Rogers. I'm not honestly sure who bears the legal responsibility of releasing the source code for the GPL'd components, either Rogers or HTC, but one of them does and HTC is seemingly claiming responsibility for it.
Since you want email headers, here they are. Yes, I have blocked out email addresses (ONLY), as I don't need any more levels of spam nor does Mr. Mackenzie, I'm sure. I will post the full headers, unedited, in a .txt file somewhere if requested and link to it, I'm not trying to hide anything, I'm just not comfortable posting some things on public forums. I also did not disclose to Mr. Mackenzie that I'd be cross-posting his email reply anywhere, so the least I can do out of respect is not publicly post his email unless it's warranted.
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From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:12:05 -0700
Subject: RE: HTC Dream
Thread-Topic: HTC Dream
Thread-Index: AcoLLP63oOKwvepeQNu7rNvgHFsdFAABQdpw
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Something tells me that the software they are referring to is NOT the kernel and is most likely the custom apps and other software on the device. Your VP probably has no idea at all what a kernel is, especially if he wants to refer you to customer support. This should have been sent straight to their engineering staff. If you can get them to clarify this, maybe we should send the story to some huge site that loves this kind of stuff like Slashdot. Get the community nice and outraged
cyanogen said:
Something tells me that the software they are referring to is NOT the kernel and is most likely the custom apps and other software on the device. Your VP probably has no idea at all what a kernel is, especially if he wants to refer you to customer support. This should have been sent straight to their engineering staff. If you can get them to clarify this, maybe we should send the story to some huge site that loves this kind of stuff like Slashdot. Get the community nice and outraged
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I totally agree, and I sent a similar email to the VP of Engineering as well, but have not gotten a reply. In my email, I explained what a kernel was, and that the open source license in the Legal section of the device specifically covered /kernel which was all I wanted the source to. I'm not holding my breath I'll get something on the 28th besides a "we're still working on it" but at least it's something, and ultimately, I hope it does lead to the source we need. This is an excerpt of what I wrote to him, so I'm hoping that even if he doesn't understand it, it's enough for him to get over to the staff who does. I assumed that since it hasn't been released yet, it is likely NOT an Engineering decision, but being held up in Legal somewhere, which is why I went this route as well.
The code I'm asking for is specifically covered under the GNU GPL Open Source license agreement (there's an entry for /kernel specifically in the Legal section of my phone) that states all source code used to generate that file MUST be provided upon request (Section 3). All I am asking for is the kernel source code, nothing more, nothing less. I do fully understand that HTC has a lot of Android modifications that are not open source, or publicly available, but the /kernel file is explicitly required to have source code available as by the terms of the GNU GPL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least as a VP, he's in a position to comment and help if he so chooses. We'll see where it goes, all I can do...
I'm sure the FSF wouldn't mind knowing what's going on. ESR loves a good shuffle and the FSF COULD get a core member of the dev team or maybe a contributor or even Linus etc to bring it to the attention of Rogers and HTC that there is grounds to pursue further action of they remain non compliant.
I'm just saying there might be other avenues once we've seen how this one plays out. I'd hate to kick a wasp nest if there are valid and honest attempts to rectify the situation calmly. It could very well be just a case of honest ignorance that needs to be schooled back to a level of understanding
SpEnTBoY said:
I'm sure the FSF wouldn't mind knowing what's going on. ESR loves a good shuffle and the FSF COULD get a core member of the dev team or maybe a contributor or even Linus etc to bring it to the attention of Rogers and HTC that there is grounds to pursue further action of they remain non compliant.
I'm just saying there might be other avenues once we've seen how this one plays out. I'd hate to kick a wasp nest if there are valid and honest attempts to rectify the situation calmly. It could very well be just a case of honest ignorance that needs to be schooled back to a level of understanding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly why I haven't contacted them yet, and nobody (that I know of) is considering a lawsuit. I'm certainly not. If my attempts to get through to this VP fail, I have a few other contacts I can put pressure on to get HTC to provide it. Turning it over to the FSF and communities like Slashdot are an option I have considered, and may do at some point if HTC stops acting in good faith, but for now I believe they're either acting in good faith at the higher levels (the email reply from the VP confirms this IMO) or, really good at blowing smoke up my ass. Either way, I'll tolerate for now and have faith.
We totally have to consider that big companies like HTC need some time to turn around so let's all wait patiently for that 28th date and see what comes out of it. Then we can decide where to take this further, thanks alot PhaseBurn, maybe something will come out of this
hellfenix said:
We totally have to consider that big companies like HTC need some time to turn around so let's all wait patiently for that 28th date and see what comes out of it. Then we can decide where to take this further, thanks alot PhaseBurn, maybe something will come out of this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. Technical support is officially a dead end for this route, too. I just got a voicemail back from HTC's advanced support department saying "Technical Support does not have any way to distribute that [the Roger's kernel source] at the moment, so we've asked for our headquarters to weigh in and see what their official response is." They went on to say I've been put on a tracking list for when they do have their answer from headquarters, and when they have a response from HQ, they'll contact me when they have the official answer. So at least we know bugging tech support about it won't get us anywhere, but it will continue to draw attention to the issue at least... And yes, I have the VM saved as a .wav file just in case it's needed...
HQ would be China (Or Taiwan?) and I'm pretty sure they are the one with the goods so this is good enough news.
HQ is either Houstin, Texas, where HTC America is located, or, Taiwan, where HTC's world wide HQ is...
The HTC Dream platform was designed by HTC Taiwan, and released to HTC America and HTC Europe for sales and support, so I'm not sure if it'd be HTC America or HTC Worldwide that has the code for the Rogers version of the device - there are subtle hardware differences between that device, and the other HTC Dreams released world-wide. I don't know to what extent HTC America and HTC Europe have engineering departments of their own, for instance. If I had to guess, I'd say it'd be HTC Taiwan that has the code we're in need of, and is the group that engineered the Rogers Dream/Magic platforms specifically. Of course that's just speculation on my part. I'm sure you all can speculate as well as I can, I've posted pretty much all I have, and right now, I'm just waiting until the 28th for a reply. I'll post what I get when I get it...
So I got my reply from Jason at HTC just a few minutes ago.
The news is good - very good, but will require some patience...
David,
Thanks for your patience. As a follow-up to our last exchange I have done some research and found the following. As you noted, the Linux kernel in the Rogers version of the HTC Dream and Magic is slightly modified from the standard Android kernel - and we fully understand that granting access to this source code is important to you AND the developer community. Our team is currently putting the proper systems in place on our website to ensure that we have a robust, reliable platform for sharing specific Linux kernels. We expect that this will be in place by the first week of August on the htc..com website. I have asked Hsiao-wen Lin (who heads up my Product Management team) to personally e-mail you the link as soon as it's available). Additionally, from your email, we realize that our customer support team was not completely up to speed on this issue, and we are relaying the necessary information so that they can provide a more informed response to other inquiries like yours. We strive to deliver best-in-class service to all of our stakeholders, so we thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Thanks again for your business!
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So another 2 weeks. I'll post the link as soon as I get it, but at least we have our answer. They will be releasing it.
... did everyone else smile significantly when they read this? I love it when people and companies just 'get it', even if not every link in the chain is up to date. Great news and a serious dept of gratitude for doing the leg work PB!!
Wow, so basically they just didn't think about it and/or waited for someone to ask for it before setting up something on the website. HTC is playing it very safe and I can't blame them.
That is fantastic news, first week of August happens to be next week so it's not that bad of a wait, especially if they intend to implement some sort of source control system on their website.
Hopefully the sources will be integrated in the main Android Kernel assuming they were actually useful and not only meant to block us.
Wow, that's great. Good job and thanks.
Hey XDA Developers!
So with the holidays coming up fast there is no better time to indulge in a tablet. Weather your buying one for yourself or a loved one, the time is right. I did a post containing some of the hottest deals available for each price category and best tablets. Check it out here: Removed...
Thanks! :laugh:
Just to be clear, those are your affiliate links on that site, aren't they? In other words you'll get commissions if anyone clicks through and buys.
Sun_Cat said:
Just to be clear, those are your affiliate links on that site, aren't they? In other words you'll get commissions if anyone clicks through and buys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer your question in short, yes they are my affiliate links with Amazon and I do earn a commission whenever a product is purchased using those links. However, don't think that's the only reason I put them up. They provide more information about the product and the whole purpose behind this was to help people make informed decisions when contemplating to purchase different tablets for the holiday season.
Affiliate links arent allowed on XDA.
Consider this a warning on the subject.
Thread closed
（中央社記者劉建邦台北市18日電）35歲許姓男子在知名論壇張貼未上市hTC手機保護貼紙包裝和圖片，警方今天說，接獲宏達電提告，前往逮人，訊後送辦。
刑事局表示，2月間接獲宏達電提告，有民眾在Mobile01網站張貼未上市產品hTC One M8手機保護貼紙包裝及M8手機的圖片外觀，供網友瀏覽和散佈，因侵害公司商業權益，報警處理。
刑事局說，因hTC One M8手機正式發表期間為3月25日，且各手機大廠對新型手機產品競爭激烈，新型手機型式、功能，還未公開發表前，均保密到家。
警方表示，宏達電對未上市hTC One M8手機外型圖檔遭民眾在網路公開散佈、流傳格外重視，才向網友提告，追查不法散佈人士。
刑事局多月偵查後，掌握許男犯案具體事證，4月15日持新北地院核發搜索票前往許嫌位在新北市板橋區住所搜索。
警方當場查扣犯案電腦主機、含侵權圖檔的手機等證據，訊後把許男移送新北地檢署偵辦。
刑事局呼籲民眾應尊重智慧財產權，切勿在網路論壇中公佈未公開訊息以免觸法
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
translate
( Central News Agency reporters Liu Jian Bang Taipei 18 (Xinhua) ) 35 -year-old man surnamed Xu at the well-known forum posting unlisted hTC phone protection sticker packaging and pictures, police said today received HTC sue , to arrest people, hearing evacuation do .
CIB said indirectly for February sue by HTC , there are people in Mobile01 website posted unlisted phone protection products hTC One M8,M8 phone sticker packaging and appearance of images for users to browse and spread against the company due to commercial interests , alarm processing .
CIB said that during the phone because hTC One M8 was officially released on March 25 , and each of the new mobile phone handset manufacturers product competition, new mobile phone type, function , has not been published before , are confidential home.
Police said on HTC phones unlisted hTC One M8 public appearance was at drawing public distribution network , spread extra attention before they sue to users , who traced the illegal spread .
After months of investigation CIB , master Xu male offenders solid evidence , held April 15 in North District Court issued a new search warrant to promise too is located in New Taipei Itabashi home search .
Police seized the spot mainframe computer crimes , including mobile phones and other evidence of infringement drawing , after hearing the men transferred to the new North promised Prosecutors Office for investigation.
CIB urged the public to respect the intellectual property rights , do not publish the message in order to avoid conflict with the law are not public forums in the Internet
... what?
Can someone who can read the actual chinese please provide a summary? lol
It sounds like HTC filed suit against a guy for leaking the HTC One M8 prior to the official introduction.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Leaking things that could help with s-off????
MOD EDIT: Thread closed. Please use the existing thread, thanks!
UPDATES
22/11/14
BY VIKAS ON ONE PLUS ONE FORUM.
[Announcement] Week 49: Get ready, India. We are coming
VikasAdministratorStaff Member
Hello everyone,
It always feels great to bring smiles to our ardent followers. We appreciate the positive feedback received on our previous week’s announcement. This week we have even bigger and better news to share - something that everyone has been waiting patiently to hear.
Firstly, we are thrilled to confirm that the One will be available for our Indian users in December. We can’t wait to bring your favourite phone to your hands. As all the details have now been perfected and last-mile hurdles have been cleared, the exact launch date will soon be announced in the coming days on our forums.
As announced earlier, the product will be exclusively available through our e-commerce partner for users who have a valid India-specific invite. This is to ensure that all of our fans across India can easily buy the product online or through a mobile app without having to worry about payments, logistics or support.
The other key element that everyone has been waiting for is price. While we obviously can’t share the price at the moment, I can confidently suggest that it is priced at a very competitive price point.
Secondly, we have recently launched a contest to win India specific invites in celebration of our first anniversary. We are totally impressed with the enthusiasm and creative talent of our Indian fans. To our passionate fans, thanks once again and a sincere request to share your entries on your favorite platforms as well to spread the love. Today is the last day of our very first*India specific contest and you can still submit your entry here*by 10.30 PM today if you have not participated yet.
In case, you were not able to participate or did not win the coveted invite this time, don’t worry this is just the beginning and we have many more surprises up our sleeves in coming days. But for now, we’d like to thank all the participants and congratulate lucky winners who will get an opportunity to own the mighty One very soon.
How soon? Well, sooner than most people expect. We pride ourselves in positively surprisingly our fans and this time will be no exception.
Lastly, we have few other smaller yet important good news to share. The Indian team is set to expand as we have narrowed down our search to handful of individuals and will hopefully have them on-board very soon. In addition, we will be moving to our first local office next month. Recently, we also crossed*5,000 likes on our Facebook page*in less than a month. Do join us on Facebook in case you have not already done so.
We are excited to work together with you as we move forward. Keep watching this space for more updates as we will be back very soon. As always, your feedback and suggestions are welcome.
Never Settle.
*
20/11/14
By CAT H - ONE PLUS ONE INDIA INVITE COMPETITION
LINK- https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/neversettle-contest-for-india.183715/
Dear friends,
As our first birthday grows closer every day, we’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about the people who made this all possible. Our fans in India have been extremely passionate and supportive over the past 11 months, and we want to take this time to say thank you.
To show our appreciation to our friends in India, this contest will award 100 winners with the first India-specific invites for the OnePlus One. Enter to win by creating a “Never Settle statement.” Your statement can be anything that begins with #NeverSettle, such as “#NeverSettle for less than the best.” or “#NeverSettle for boring.” Post a picture of yourself holding your statement to enter the contest.
Please submit your entry to this thread. Winners will be chosen randomly in 48 hours and a confirmation email will be sent 24 hours after closing. All 100 winners will receive an India-specific invite for the One.
Rules:
Read our Terms & Conditions below.
Take a photo of yourself displaying your #NeverSettle message (i.e. “#NeverSettle for less than 100%”).Reply to this thread with your #NeverSettle photo (only one entry per person).
Just wondering if anyone was attending Big Android BBQ! I'll be giving away devices at the different Code Kitchen challenges and would love to talk about Android, ASUS, and anything else! For those who can't attend, I'll be going live with a Periscope on Thursday, so please follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MyZenASUS
I'll be covering the BBQ, meet some developers and enthusiasts, and more! Also, I'm doing another giveaway! For the details, check out my post here: http://myzen.asus.com/2015/10/20/big-android-bbq-and-a-new-contest/
Sorry about only being only open to US and Canada! It's just that I'm from the North America team and that's my restriction. #sadface
I'm guessing you have to be at the event to win ........sigh but ill follow you on twitter
Actually, you DON'T have to be there! The contest I'm running is for attendees and non-attendees!
nice
edit: but sadly malaysia is not included