Related
Ok, so here’s my story:
Not too long ago, I bought myself a Samsung Galaxy Tab 7”. Ever since the device was announced by Samsung, I thought this was one of the coolest ideas since sliced bread. I could have a device roughly the size of a small book that pretty much did everything the iPad could do, and then some (like take pictures and run flash). On top of that, it was capable of making and receiving phone calls and text messages. Finally, a device that literally would do EVERYTHING I needed; no more need to lug around a netbook, a phone, a GPS in my car, or an iPod.
Not all was as peachy as I would have hoped however. Initially, it didn’t look as though this wonderful piece of technology would make it to American soil at all. Then, when it did, it was deliberately crippled for the North American market so that its native ability to make or receive regular phone calls and text messages was disabled at the software level. What a terrible thing to do! I was so disappointed by this news that I nearly abandoned any desire to head down to my local AT&T store to buy it. To add insult to injury, the only way AT&T offered the Tab was on a no-contract pay-as-you-go data plan, which is ludicrously expensive, particularly when compared with the fact that I’m one of the lucky customers who is grandfathered in to an unlimited data plan.
Eventually, however, my desire to own this device got the better of me, so I finally dished out the cash (and it was not cheap either!) for an unlocked and unbranded Tab which had the phone calling and texting abilities right out of the box. I popped the SIM card from my AT&T smartphone into my new Tab, fired it up, and started enjoying what was, up until recently, the best mobile user experience I have ever known.
I started referring to my Tab as my “Do-Everything-Device,” because it literally DID do everything I needed right from one device! It replaced my netbook, my phone, my GPS, my iPod, my Kindle, and the CD player/Radio in my car! It was so liberating not to have a phone attached to my hip and a bag on my shoulder for everything else I used to have to lug around with me. Sure there were occasions where carrying around a phone the size of a small book would have been ridiculous, but that’s what swapping SIM cards is for right? I’d simply switch back to my smartphone when the situation called for it.
Then things took a turn for the worse when AT&T started getting involved… Apparently this kind of quality user experience was not meant to be. I had received an automated text message one day telling me that I needed to be on the “proper data plan,” and that if I weren’t my service could be changed or suspended. Being a loyal paying customer to AT&T in its various previous incarnations for about 11 years now, and having an unlimited data plan on my line (which I should note I was NOT abusing; I generally used about 4 – 5GB or so per billing cycle), I was perplexed as to why I would have been receiving that message. So I called into customer service to inquire.
Upon some minor investigation on the customer service rep’s part, I was informed that the issue was that I was swapping back and forth between my Galaxy Tab and my smartphone (which it may be noted is a Samsung Captivate), and that I should stop doing that. Stop swapping out my SIM card between two of my most used devices? Really? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of having a SIM card in the first place? Still perplexed as to why this was an issue, I brought the matter to the attention of AT&T’s Office of the President to hopefully find some resolution to the problem. The gentleman I spoke with said he would investigate further and get back to me with his findings. A week later, get back to me he did! At first I thought, “Great! The highest level of customer service has come to bring me good news of a fair and reasonable compromise or resolution!” Little did I know he came to bear me bad news indeed…
The representative informed me that the issue wasn’t that I was swapping my SIM card per se, but rather the issue was with my Galaxy Tab specifically. Basically, I was told that AT&T’s intended use for the Galaxy Tab, regardless of where it was purchased, and regardless of whether it was carrier locked or unlocked or any of that, was that it was to be used as a data-only device, and furthermore as a pay-as-you-go data only device! I was basically given the option to get a pay-as-you-go SIM and use my Tab as AT&T intended it to be used (not as Samsung intended), or not use it at all, sorry. I was directed to the service agreement for “Specified Device Session-Based Plans.”
Excuse me? Sorry, but I don’t want to pay-as-I-go for data! I’m already paying for unlimited data, and there is nothing in those terms of service that say I can’t put my SIM card in whatever device I want, provided I’m not violating those terms! The representative proceeded to tell me that a user such as myself only accounted for a minority of the people subscribed, and that the current data plans AT&T offers caters to the majority. Ok, fine, cater to the majority. I get that. However, even as a lucky customer who has an unlimited data package, and even as a minority who chooses to stay informed about the latest technology, I should still be catered to as well. I mean, that’s what customer service is right? Making sure your customers’ needs are catered to? He said that the reason AT&T doesn’t still offer unlimited data is that “The average user only consumes about 2 or less GB a month.” Sure, that may be true for the average user currently, and it may be true furthermore for the average user who cares more about phones calls, text messages and Facebook updates more than frequently browsing rich web content and going to Youtube on their phone etc. However, with the much faster networks that are being deployed, and with more data intensive and media rich web content available today and tomorrow, that 2GB is going to be a bite-sized portion to the “average user” very shortly…
In my frustration, I argued that I am paying for the service to the SIM, not service to the device itself (otherwise what’s the point of the SIM in the first place?). As such, there shouldn’t be any issue with my circumventing AT&T’s artificial limitations on their branded Galaxy Tab’s hardware by buying directly from the manufacturer at a premium. I should be able to use my SIM in any device of my choosing, so long as I’m not violating the terms of service to that line, which I’m not (as I mentioned earlier, there was nothing in the Terms of Service that explicitly said I couldn’t use my SIM card in a tablet device.) Furthermore, I argued that the only real differences between the hardware in my Tab and the hardware in my Captivate were screen size, battery size, and the presence or absence of a front camera. For all the times I was told “Yes sir, I understand,” it really didn’t seem like he really understood…
It seems AT&T (and indeed any other US carrier which supplies a crippled Tab, or any other device) doesn’t want you to have a “Do Everything Device.” It’s bad for business! Why would they support a device that does everything your tablet or netbook does and everything your smartphone does, all on your single line subscription? Of course they’re going to cripple the Tab, because they want you to buy separate devices with separate line subscriptions and more money in their pockets! Not to mention, AT&T probably doesn’t want something that would have, up until recently, directly competed with the iPad, and frankly outdone it in some ways (when’s the last time you could make carrier phone calls, not SIP or VoIP, and text message on your iPad right out of the box?). I suppose that’s corporate America for you… What ever happened to providing superior service at the best value though?
So, if you are on AT&T, and you own a Galaxy Tab or are interested in getting one (or any other tablet on AT&T for that matter), here are some things to watch out for and speak out to:
AT&T is sweeping their network for devices by their IMEI, and if your device does not match up to whatever plan they want you to be on based on that device, your service could be changed or suspended.
If you have a grandfathered unlimited data plan, AT&T is doing the best they can to get you OFF of that plan by being very specific about what devices can be used with those plans.
I am only one person, and as one person, my voice has fallen upon the deaf ears of a very large company. As such, I urge you to speak out as a collective to AT&T, tell them about this situation, and others which likewise are upsetting to you as a customer. AT&T can ignore one person, but not a crowd…
Don’t contact customer service. Go straight to the source! Call AT&T’s office of the president at 866-751-5784 (option 1). Also, speak out on their Facebook page. Talk to your friends and family, spread the word!
EDIT: Here's a petition to sign.
honestly what is the point? i feel sorry for you americans - if the tmobile at&t merge goes through then there will only be 1 GSM carrier (i may be wrong) in the US and the rest will be CDMA - and that means that all the foreign visitors will be on 1 bad network.
The problem with any network "merger" is that you always get the lowest common denominator.
Up to the end of last year, I was on T-Mobile UK, but when my contract came up I left and went to Three. Retentions called and asked why I was leaving, and I explained that Three had a truly unlimited data plan and TMo UK had a 3GB FUP (which was pretty good to be fair).
The CS Rep swore blind that TMo UK would never do anything to uphold the FUP, but I stood my ground and left anyway because I *knew* that the merger with Orange could only ever end up with their plans becoming roughly analogous.
True to form, less than 1 month later, TMo UK reduced their "download" allowance to 500MB bringing them roughly in line with their sister brand, Orange.
Regards,
Dave
There are others, see this thread (if you haven't already).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1000921 (I have a post in there.)
FTR, I'm using AT&T SGT as a phone and data device, just not using 3G (or mythical 4G for that matter) data. You can't swing a dead cat w/out hitting a wireless AP so why hassle with AT&T over their expensive, slow 3G (if you're lucky) connections/data.
I hated AT&T so bad I dumped them years back and went Cingular. Well, I guess they wanted me back so bad...they went and bought Cingular
Thanks for the contact info. I'll rattle the cage.
Thanks for sharing, you have taken this a great leap farther then I have.
I love your justifications, definately will call tomorrow, more people that call, better chance of a change ( I can dream).
Again, I say what about some kind of class action for this, Maybe we should get a bounty going. I would give $100.00 towards the suit. And if more is needed, I would contribute.
Timtown said:
There are others, see this thread (if you haven't already).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1000921 (I have a post in there.)
FTR, I'm using AT&T SGT as a phone and data device, just not using 3G (or mythical 4G for that matter) data. You can't swing a dead cat w/out hitting a wireless AP so why hassle with AT&T over their expensive, slow 3G (if you're lucky) connections/data.
I hated AT&T so bad I dumped them years back and went Cingular. Well, I guess they wanted me back so bad...they went and bought Cingular
Thanks for the contact info. I'll rattle the cage.
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Att 3g data is slow? LOLWUT. Have a look at Verizon's 3g speeds.
-Sent from my Galaxy Tab
And to the OP, I just ordered a new phone today from att. They did not once attempt to get me off of my unlimited data plan.
-Sent from my Galaxy Tab
lockheedload said:
And to the OP, I just ordered a new phone today from att. They did not once attempt to get me off of my unlimited data plan.
-Sent from my Galaxy Tab
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Click to collapse
The issue (at least for the moment) isn't so much that AT&T will take away your unlimited data plan or not (although that WOULD be an annoyance), the issue is that AT&T doesn't want us using our Galaxy Tab's as phone devices, because that's not how THEY intended it to be used. AT&T would rather we have two SIM cards. One for a tablet device, and one for a phone device; not one SIM card for one device that just "does it all."
If they're artificially crippling the native capabilities of a device in order to force consumers into buying multiple devices to make up for those limitations, then they're price gouging, plain and simple.
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
Ok, so here’s my story:
Not too long ago, I bought myself a Samsung Galaxy Tab 7”. Ever since the device was announced by Samsung, I thought this was one of the coolest ideas since sliced bread. I could have a device roughly the size of a small book that pretty much did everything the iPad could do, and then some (like take pictures and run flash). On top of that, it was capable of making and receiving phone calls and text messages. Finally, a device that literally would do EVERYTHING I needed; no more need to lug around a netbook, a phone, a GPS in my car, or an iPod.
Not all was as peachy as I would have hoped however. Initially, it didn’t look as though this wonderful piece of technology would make it to American soil at all. Then, when it did, it was deliberately crippled for the North American market so that its native ability to make or receive regular phone calls and text messages was disabled at the software level. What a terrible thing to do! I was so disappointed by this news that I nearly abandoned any desire to head down to my local AT&T store to buy it. To add insult to injury, the only way AT&T offered the Tab was on a no-contract pay-as-you-go data plan, which is ludicrously expensive, particularly when compared with the fact that I’m one of the lucky customers who is grandfathered in to an unlimited data plan.
Eventually, however, my desire to own this device got the better of me, so I finally dished out the cash (and it was not cheap either!) for an unlocked and unbranded Tab which had the phone calling and texting abilities right out of the box. I popped the SIM card from my AT&T smartphone into my new Tab, fired it up, and started enjoying what was, up until recently, the best mobile user experience I have ever known.
I started referring to my Tab as my “Do-Everything-Device,” because it literally DID do everything I needed right from one device! It replaced my netbook, my phone, my GPS, my iPod, my Kindle, and the CD player/Radio in my car! It was so liberating not to have a phone attached to my hip and a bag on my shoulder for everything else I used to have to lug around with me. Sure there were occasions where carrying around a phone the size of a small book would have been ridiculous, but that’s what swapping SIM cards is for right? I’d simply switch back to my smartphone when the situation called for it.
Then things took a turn for the worse when AT&T started getting involved… Apparently this kind of quality user experience was not meant to be. I had received an automated text message one day telling me that I needed to be on the “proper data plan,” and that if I weren’t my service could be changed or suspended. Being a loyal paying customer to AT&T in its various previous incarnations for about 11 years now, and having an unlimited data plan on my line (which I should note I was NOT abusing; I generally used about 4 – 5GB or so per billing cycle), I was perplexed as to why I would have been receiving that message. So I called into customer service to inquire.
Upon some minor investigation on the customer service rep’s part, I was informed that the issue was that I was swapping back and forth between my Galaxy Tab and my smartphone (which it may be noted is a Samsung Captivate), and that I should stop doing that. Stop swapping out my SIM card between two of my most used devices? Really? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of having a SIM card in the first place? Still perplexed as to why this was an issue, I brought the matter to the attention of AT&T’s Office of the President to hopefully find some resolution to the problem. The gentleman I spoke with said he would investigate further and get back to me with his findings. A week later, get back to me he did! At first I thought, “Great! The highest level of customer service has come to bring me good news of a fair and reasonable compromise or resolution!” Little did I know he came to bear me bad news indeed…
The representative informed me that the issue wasn’t that I was swapping my SIM card per se, but rather the issue was with my Galaxy Tab specifically. Basically, I was told that AT&T’s intended use for the Galaxy Tab, regardless of where it was purchased, and regardless of whether it was carrier locked or unlocked or any of that, was that it was to be used as a data-only device, and furthermore as a pay-as-you-go data only device! I was basically given the option to get a pay-as-you-go SIM and use my Tab as AT&T intended it to be used (not as Samsung intended), or not use it at all, sorry. I was directed to the service agreement for “Specified Device Session-Based Plans.”
Excuse me? Sorry, but I don’t want to pay-as-I-go for data! I’m already paying for unlimited data, and there is nothing in those terms of service that say I can’t put my SIM card in whatever device I want, provided I’m not violating those terms! The representative proceeded to tell me that a user such as myself only accounted for a minority of the people subscribed, and that the current data plans AT&T offers caters to the majority. Ok, fine, cater to the majority. I get that. However, even as a lucky customer who has an unlimited data package, and even as a minority who chooses to stay informed about the latest technology, I should still be catered to as well. I mean, that’s what customer service is right? Making sure your customers’ needs are catered to? He said that the reason AT&T doesn’t still offer unlimited data is that “The average user only consumes about 2 or less GB a month.” Sure, that may be true for the average user currently, and it may be true furthermore for the average user who cares more about phones calls, text messages and Facebook updates more than frequently browsing rich web content and going to Youtube on their phone etc. However, with the much faster networks that are being deployed, and with more data intensive and media rich web content available today and tomorrow, that 2GB is going to be a bite-sized portion to the “average user” very shortly…
In my frustration, I argued that I am paying for the service to the SIM, not service to the device itself (otherwise what’s the point of the SIM in the first place?). As such, there shouldn’t be any issue with my circumventing AT&T’s artificial limitations on their branded Galaxy Tab’s hardware by buying directly from the manufacturer at a premium. I should be able to use my SIM in any device of my choosing, so long as I’m not violating the terms of service to that line, which I’m not (as I mentioned earlier, there was nothing in the Terms of Service that explicitly said I couldn’t use my SIM card in a tablet device.) Furthermore, I argued that the only real differences between the hardware in my Tab and the hardware in my Captivate were screen size, battery size, and the presence or absence of a front camera. For all the times I was told “Yes sir, I understand,” it really didn’t seem like he really understood…
It seems AT&T (and indeed any other US carrier which supplies a crippled Tab, or any other device) doesn’t want you to have a “Do Everything Device.” It’s bad for business! Why would they support a device that does everything your tablet or netbook does and everything your smartphone does, all on your single line subscription? Of course they’re going to cripple the Tab, because they want you to buy separate devices with separate line subscriptions and more money in their pockets! Not to mention, AT&T probably doesn’t want something that would have, up until recently, directly competed with the iPad, and frankly outdone it in some ways (when’s the last time you could make carrier phone calls, not SIP or VoIP, and text message on your iPad right out of the box?). I suppose that’s corporate America for you… What ever happened to providing superior service at the best value though?
So, if you are on AT&T, and you own a Galaxy Tab or are interested in getting one (or any other tablet on AT&T for that matter), here are some things to watch out for and speak out to:
AT&T is sweeping their network for devices by their IMEI, and if your device does not match up to whatever plan they want you to be on based on that device, your service could be changed or suspended.
If you have a grandfathered unlimited data plan, AT&T is doing the best they can to get you OFF of that plan by being very specific about what devices can be used with those plans.
I am only one person, and as one person, my voice has fallen upon the deaf ears of a very large company. As such, I urge you to speak out as a collective to AT&T, tell them about this situation, and others which likewise are upsetting to you as a customer. AT&T can ignore one person, but not a crowd…
Don’t contact customer service. Go straight to the source! Call AT&T’s office of the president at 866-751-5784 (option 1). Also, speak out on their Facebook page. Talk to your friends and family, spread the word!
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Click to collapse
I am not on AT&T network any more I moved to sprint a few months before the Iphone came out its been that long, However AT&T is well with in there right to limit what device is allowed to do what on there network. Its sad that they would do that but in there contract agreement it is listed there.
Since this has completely ticked you off I would suggest you move carriers if you truly want to show them how unhappy you are with there service. Calling and complaining really isnt going to do you any good since you are in the minority of users that do what you described.
just my 2 cents
In europe the wireless operators are selling services - like phone calls and data. In US they are selling devices capable of calling or having data.
This diffrenece means that in eu if I don't like something I can move to difirenet operator and keep devices. In us you can't. that is why are people complaing that at&t is messing with them. Cause if they go to other provider they need to pay again for every device. In my home country hspa+ is still caled 3g, dataplan 12Gig for 19eur/month included all taxes
icreepin said:
Since this has completely ticked you off I would suggest you move carriers if you truly want to show them how unhappy you are with there service. Calling and complaining really isnt going to do you any good since you are in the minority of users that do what you described.
just my 2 cents
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I would gladly switch carriers if it weren't for the fact that I do a lot of international traveling, and Sprint/Verizon both being CDMA carriers is a deal-breaker for me. I'm with AT&T because of the GSM bands it supports, and that's it. If it weren't for that, if Sprint and Verizon were GSM carriers too, just like most of the rest of the world, I'd have switched a long time ago without a doubt.
The other thing is, for the most part I'm not entirely unhappy with the service AT&T provides, when it's providing service to the equipment I use as that equipment was designed. I only have an issue when it's clear that they are imposing artificial schemes which force customers into a price gouging situation.
Crippling the native features of one device (i.e. phone calling on the Tab) in order to force the consumer into buying ANOTHER device and ANOTHER line subscription in order to fulfill that function, which was artificially crippled on the other device, THAT to me is price gouging.
AT&T absolutely has the right to lay out their own criteria for HOW their network is used. Likewise, the customers have the right to make enough of a fuss to AT&T about WHAT they can use on their network, particularly when they're not violating the HOW part of the ToS.
If we all as consumers are complacent and passive enough to just lay down and go with the attitude of "Oh well, it's their network, and they can treat us however they want with it..." then AT&T (and any company for that matter) will take advantage of that and gouge us for as much money as they can get.
I'm arguing that we've reached an "Enough is enough" point from the customer's perspective, and I am urging as many people as I can to speak out in a common voice to say "This is what we want. Please deliver."
If you don't like something, don't just say "Oh well..." and keep it to yourself. Express yourself, and make your issues known, and band together with people who share the same concerns, otherwise nothing will ever change for the betterment of the user.
Ok I think you need a better example what is fundamentally wrong with your wireless providers. Lets say the you would buy and electric drill and you use it as screwdriver as well. The power company would you charge $ more for that. And if you say no I go to someone else they say you need new drill cause it does not work on our grid. And cause of that some has made a standard power gird. Or am I wrong? If you solve this problem you get better service.
monoko said:
In europe the wireless operators are selling services - like phone calls and data. In US they are selling devices capable of calling or having data.
This diffrenece means that in eu if I don't like something I can move to difirenet operator and keep devices. In us you can't. that is why are people complaing that at&t is messing with them. Cause if they go to other provider they need to pay again for every device. In my home country hspa+ is still caled 3g, dataplan 12Gig for 19eur/month included all taxes
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Click to collapse
Exactly! And that's the thing, in America, we're in a largely CDMA network environment, where you can't just so easily keep on piece of hardware and jump from one carrier to another like you can with GSM using a SIM card. I mean you can still jump from one CDMA carrier to another using the same hardware, but it's a big hassle... Nowhere near as simple as popping in a different SIM card.
monoko said:
Ok I think you need a better example what is fundamentally wrong with your wireless providers. Lets say the you would buy and electric drill and you use it as screwdriver as well. The power company would you charge $ more for that. And if you say no I go to someone else they say you need new drill cause it does not work on our grid. And cause of that some has made a standard power gird. Or am I wrong? If you solve this problem you get better service.
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Click to collapse
No, the issue it this:
The Galaxy Tab, directly from Samsung and in virtually every other market throughout the world, makes and receives phone calls and text messages just the same as any other smartphone can.
AT&T (and pretty much all other US carriers) have artificially (that is, on the software level, not hardware) disabled those native capabilities. In essence, they've crippled the functionality of the device.
The consumer is therefore forced to buy and carry two devices with them (a phone AND a tablet) in order to fulfill the complete functionality and user experience desired, in addition to paying for TWO separate lines.
My point is that if there is an option to use ONE device, which when unhindered can fulfill the duties of BOTH phone AND tablet, and AT&T FORCES you out of that option, and therefore FORCES you into paying more money, when you really don't have to, then THAT is price gouging.
icreepin said:
Since this has completely ticked you off I would suggest you move carriers if you truly want to show them how unhappy you are with there service. Calling and complaining really isnt going to do you any good since you are in the minority of users that do what you described.
just my 2 cents
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Or we could get a http://www.groubal.com/ petition going and see just how many people are considered minority. I be it is not a minority,
Whos to say the SGT users are a minority.
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
Exactly! And that's the thing, in America, we're in a largely CDMA network environment, where you can't just so easily keep on piece of hardware and jump from one carrier to another like you can with GSM using a SIM card. I mean you can still jump from one CDMA carrier to another using the same hardware, but it's a big hassle... Nowhere near as simple as popping in a different SIM card.
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check ur PM
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
No, the issue it this:
...
AT&T (and pretty much all other US carriers) have artificially (that is, on the software level, not hardware) disabled those native capabilities. In essence, they've crippled the functionality of the device.
....
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Click to collapse
You don't understand the point. They can do it cause you have no other easy choise. (anti competitivie)
You should have standard, I am not saying GSM or SIM etc.
But to understand look at europe. (I am european, but that is not the point)
SIM - is external (that is the point of it)!!!... it's easy to change (dead phone... just borrow frends old and you fixed till you get new),
Protocol (GSM etc) is defined for allowed spectrum.
Defined Spectrum and no other. (they still need to buy the spectrum)
This gives you posibility of selling GSM phones without carriers cripple them.
So your US problem is free market. Sorry to say it that way I know you mostly proud of that. (Lest leave this alone... ).
Just I can see competition in this market as a bit virtual. (at least to me)
(check your history about power gird you will find that standards are sometimes needed for better consumer protection.)
Please no flame war.
mine just got blocked.
i got the email yesterday telling me to change it back to my phone or call in to discuss options for the tab. so i did at my first opportunity...
i just got blocked and then an email sent to me saying to call in and that it may be blocked on both devices...
awesome, just awesome...
This is a perfect example as to why i am dreading the att/tmo merger. I am a current tmo customer and i am currently using my tab as a phone like many tmo/att customers. I have called a few times to tmo customer service regarding different minor issues and they know that i am using the tab as my phone, because i have told them, and they have not said anything they just mention how good of a devise it is and all that stuff, no issues.
Basically i am on an unlimited android plan $24.99 and of course the voice is extra. Now since this is supposed to last a year before it goes through (i really hope not) i will probably be at the end of my contract if the merger goes through and i am sure i will be forced to make changes to my plan: first i would need to chose one of their plans (god know what they will be then and how much) and second, forget about even using my tab as i am currently using it. If they do this to their own customers they i dread to think what they will do to the tmo customers that decide to stay with them once their contracts are up.
So my question is what would be the chances of me keeping my original plan on a month to month basis and not sign a new contract? (don't want to sign a new contract as i am planning to move to the UK around 2013 if everything goes as planned), who knows the answer to this but all i can say that it is not looking good for us tmo customers that are used to good customer service.
A sad, sad day for us all!!!!!
honggee said:
mine just got blocked.
i got the email yesterday telling me to change it back to my phone or call in to discuss options for the tab. so i did at my first opportunity...
i just got blocked and then an email sent to me saying to call in and that it may be blocked on both devices...
awesome, just awesome...
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Click to collapse
and i am sure there is nothing anyone can do about this, either comply or move to sprint/verizon. i feel your pain even though i am not an att customer.
Did no one watch XDA developer TV last week. We are suppose to send Motorola a message by not buying or developing for their products so they start playing by the community way. Releasing source code, updating devices that they promised to update, etc. Just saying if we are going to work as a community we should all follow the advice of others that are recommending a complete boycott of said devices. What do you think?
INTEL INSIDE. X86. Will buy this device when devs start to release roms. And motorola is changed i think, they relased sources. INTEL, you can unlock bootloader,INTEL, and they use intel processors INSIDE! lol
Trolling mode off: Tell me, why i have to boycot motorola? Best materials, best signal strenght, best radio, best SoC. They relased sources, the opened a site wich in you can unlock the bootloader. Please explain.
(sorry for my terrible english)
vvveith said:
Did no one watch XDA developer TV last week. We are suppose to send Motorola a message by not buying or developing for their products so they start playing by the community way. Releasing source code, updating devices that they promised to update, etc. Just saying if we are going to work as a community we should all follow the advice of others that are recommending a complete boycott of said devices. What do you think?
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Motorola gave 5 free RAZR M Developer editions to US power-users (including myself and P3Droid).
Motorola has always released their source code for kernels... more timely than some but still could use some upload checkers hehe.
I got jellybean leaks for the RAZR M and RAZR HD.. and hopefully soon for RAZR i.
My bootloader is unlocked...
Boycotting this doesn't make sense. The old Motorola yes. Verizon yes. The new Motorola? Not so much. Every device released since they announced their unlock program has an option to be unlocked, and for Verizon they had to make a separate Developer Edition since they are the bad guys here. If anyone should be boycotted its Verizon for requiring locked bootloaders for retail devices and killing unlimited data.
Cheers
You can boycott them if you want, but I'll continue to buy Motorola devices. They rival HTC in build quality, and the radios can't be matched. Plus, they actually make form factors that I want. Motorola was the only one to make a portrait QWERTY with decent specs (and they were the first at all, as far as I can remember). That gave me 2 more years before I had to make the switch to a stupid slab. Now, they're the only ones making a small device with high end specs. Samsung's attempt at that, announced on Thursday, is a joke.
If all on xda boycotted Motorola I doubt they would notice? Anyway, no use cutting your nose off to spite your face. I certainly agree that their radios are by far better than their competitors. Now under the wing of Google I'm hoping they have changed. Time will tell!
Sent from my XT890 using xda premium
I watched this video.
paul89rulez said:
INTEL INSIDE. X86. Will buy this device when devs start to release roms. And motorola is changed i think, they relased sources. INTEL, you can unlock bootloader,INTEL, and they use intel processors INSIDE! lol
Trolling mode off: Tell me, why i have to boycot motorola? Best materials, best signal strenght, best radio, best SoC. They relased sources, the opened a site wich in you can unlock the bootloader. Please explain.
(sorry for my terrible english)
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I watched this video and always figured that the host was more informed of behind the scene information then I was. So now am I to believe that what he says is not based on fact? Does anyone censor these video hosts to make sure what they say is actually based in reality? I always turn to the community here to decide if I should invest in a certain product or app. I read countless user reviews and listen to XDA developer TV to make a final buying decision. I think that people that are more in the public eye as representatives of the community should be accountable for the information the are allowed to share. I guess this host just has a lot of hot air based in fantasy? That's all I was commenting about, He must be very misinformed. Sad really. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7HrYgO6uP4&feature=relmfu
vvveith said:
I watched this video and always figured that the host was more informed of behind the scene information then I was. So now am I to believe that what he says is not based on fact? Does anyone censor these video hosts to make sure what they say is actually based in reality? I always turn to the community here to decide if I should invest in a certain product or app. I read countless user reviews and listen to XDA developer TV to make a final buying decision. I think that people that are more in the public eye as representatives of the community should be accountable for the information the are allowed to share. I guess this host just has a lot of hot air based in fantasy? That's all I was commenting about, He must be very misinformed. Sad really. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7HrYgO6uP4&feature=relmfu
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All the information he gave is public, so he's not any more informed than any of the rest of us. He's only more informed than those who don't follow tech news, and those people don't care and weren't going to boycott anyway. Also, all his information is not completely accurate. The $100 rebate is not only for Verizon customers. The list includes several phones that are not Verizon phones. You can verify that for yourself here.
Ultimately, though, he's not misinformed. Motorola did lock bootloaders, they did push updates to an even later date, and they did cancel the updates for a few phones. He just has a different reaction to the information than I, and many others, do. He believes we should boycott Motorola to get them to change. As somebody who has an avenue to get their opinion out there, of course he's going to put his opinion out there. Personally, I think boycotting Verizon would be a better solution, because it's pretty clear that they are 90% of the problem. The new RAZR M/i and RAZR HD are only locked down on Verizon. In every other country they've been released in, they are unlockable. Motorola really doesn't care if you unlock your bootloader or not, because if you do, they don't have to warranty your phone. Verizon, though, for whatever reason, does seem to care.
The truth is, there will never be a widespread boycott of either Motorola or Verizon for this issue. For a boycott to be effective, you have to have a very large number of people upset about something. The number of people upset about locked bootloaders and a lack of updates is pretty low in the grand scheme of things. Most customers have no idea what a bootloader even is, and couldn't care less if they got an update or not. Then there's the fact that Verizon sells far more than just Motorola devices, so even if every Verizon customer that was pissed about the Motorola devices decided to boycott Verizon, it still wouldn't be a majority of those 100+ million customers.
Thank you, Very WELL said!!
freak4dell said:
All the information he gave is public, so he's not any more informed than any of the rest of us. He's only more informed than those who don't follow tech news, and those people don't care and weren't going to boycott anyway. Also, all his information is not completely accurate. The $100 rebate is not only for Verizon customers. The list includes several phones that are not Verizon phones. You can verify that for yourself here.
Ultimately, though, he's not misinformed. Motorola did lock bootloaders, they did push updates to an even later date, and they did cancel the updates for a few phones. He just has a different reaction to the information than I, and many others, do. He believes we should boycott Motorola to get them to change. As somebody who has an avenue to get their opinion out there, of course he's going to put his opinion out there. Personally, I think boycotting Verizon would be a better solution, because it's pretty clear that they are 90% of the problem. The new RAZR M/i and RAZR HD are only locked down on Verizon. In every other country they've been released in, they are unlockable. Motorola really doesn't care if you unlock your bootloader or not, because if you do, they don't have to warranty your phone. Verizon, though, for whatever reason, does seem to care.
The truth is, there will never be a widespread boycott of either Motorola or Verizon for this issue. For a boycott to be effective, you have to have a very large number of people upset about something. The number of people upset about locked bootloaders and a lack of updates is pretty low in the grand scheme of things. Most customers have no idea what a bootloader even is, and couldn't care less if they got an update or not. Then there's the fact that Verizon sells far more than just Motorola devices, so even if every Verizon customer that was pissed about the Motorola devices decided to boycott Verizon, it still wouldn't be a majority of those 100+ million customers.
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Now that's some information I can rap my head around. However, let me add one thing that Verizon does seem to care about besides money: They are one of the only service providers I have found that blocks text scam premium service providers. I recently received a text from some supposed event notifications service that I did not solicit. I of course paid no attention to it and deleted the text off my phone. When I was about to pay my bill I noticed an irregularity in the amount. $9.99 charged for a monthly membership fee. After notifying T Mobile of the fraud, they credited my account and told me if I wanted to block such services that I had to pay them $9.99 a month to have that feature. Or I could accept a block on all messages that come through their premium text services for free. I opted for the second and all of my important financial institutions were than blocked as well. After doing research on the web I found millions of cases of this same thing and the only provider not to have any complaints about it was Verizon! I was thinking of switching over to them when my term with T Mobile ends. But now that you have informed me of something else, I guess I'll stay away from them as well. Any other information that you can share would be very much appreciated. I know that we actually vote with our cash so even though it seems like one person is a small amount of revenue that won't be missed, when millions of us make the same decision I believe it does have an impact. Who knows? I guess I'll renew with T Mobile because it seems like no matter which service provider you choose, there always will be some shady business practices going on. Guess you have to choice the least of two evils, kind of like voting for a president. To bad XDA does not have a mobile provider of it's own with it's own devices as well. LOL
vvveith said:
Now that's some information I can rap my head around. However, let me add one thing that Verizon does seem to care about besides money: They are one of the only service providers I have found that blocks text scam premium service providers. I recently received a text from some supposed event notifications service that I did not solicit. I of course paid no attention to it and deleted the text off my phone. When I was about to pay my bill I noticed an irregularity in the amount. $9.99 charged for a monthly membership fee. After notifying T Mobile of the fraud, they credited my account and told me if I wanted to block such services that I had to pay them $9.99 a month to have that feature. Or I could accept a block on all messages that come through their premium text services for free. I opted for the second and all of my important financial institutions were than blocked as well. After doing research on the web I found millions of cases of this same thing and the only provider not to have any complaints about it was Verizon! I was thinking of switching over to them when my term with T Mobile ends. But now that you have informed me of something else, I guess I'll stay away from them as well. Any other information that you can share would be very much appreciated. I know that we actually vote with our cash so even though it seems like one person is a small amount of revenue that won't be missed, when millions of us make the same decision I believe it does have an impact. Who knows? I guess I'll renew with T Mobile because it seems like no matter which service provider you choose, there always will be some shady business practices going on. Guess you have to choice the least of two evils, kind of like voting for a president. To bad XDA does not have a mobile provider of it's own with it's own devices as well. LOL
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Hmm...I didn't know that about T-Mobile's service. I have that block on my account, too, since I got a fraudulent $9.99 charge a couple months ago. I don't really subscribe to texts from many places, but it sucks if I don't have the ability to.
I had them unblock me again!
freak4dell said:
Hmm...I didn't know that about T-Mobile's service. I have that block on my account, too, since I got a fraudulent $9.99 charge a couple months ago. I don't really subscribe to texts from many places, but it sucks if I don't have the ability to.
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I now receive text from my financial institutions and was given these procedures to follow if I receive anymore unwanted texts. Forward a copy of the offending text to 7726 immediately followed by a blank text to 4647. That will permanently block the text sender and also get them investigated for legitimacy. So I guess it's a slight pain in the ass but I need to receive important information from my bank or credit institutions anytime there is activity so I can verify that it is me making the activity happen and is approved.
This was the official link to purchase the developer edition, gone??
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SM-N910VMKEVZW
Yeah it has been down for about a week or so. Looks like the end for them new from Samsung. Shame because I checked the stock on them the day before it was pulled and they still had over 80 of them.
Note Edge DevEd is gone too.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Just when I finally decide to buy the developer edition it disappears from their site. It's getting harder and harder to find newer devices on Verizon that can be rooted and has external storage/removable battery.
Are they going to offer a Note 5 DE?
Get a unlocked phone off of tmobile and you can have removable back battery and sd card and you can put a verizon chip and root.
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
Confirmed by Samsung - no more developer note 4's for sale. off the website about a week ago.
good news though. there will be Galaxy S6 Developer Editions, this year, and there will be a Note 5 developer edition (next year)
rob
anticloud said:
Confirmed by Samsung - no more developer note 4's for sale. off the website about a week ago.
good news though. there will be Galaxy S6 Developer Editions, this year, and there will be a Note 5 developer edition (next year)
rob
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Unfortunately, a non replaceable battery is a deal breaker for me.[emoji20]
Extra Virgin said:
Unfortunately, a non replaceable battery is a deal breaker for me.[emoji20]
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I was thinking the same thing. Especially if they go with an even smaller battery then what the N4 has, like rumors state.
I haven't been using the spare battery for mine. Just to see if it would be a total inconvenience or not. Hasn't really been at all. Though they never decide to die until it is a major inconvenience haha.
Well, I have to get my Note 4 reflashed back to developer. It's being sent to texas on tuesday. I wasn't thinking, and duked my device with the latest update from Samsung / Verizon. not a good idea, stuck in retail land. I am also planning to get a new screen put in as the one I have has some severe burn-in.
btw - if you are near contract's end, consider this (I am). Don't opt to renew your plan for a new two year agreement just to get a new phone. Verizon, if your plan is expired, will drop your rate 24.99 to keep you. either keep your existing phone, or, pay full retail for your next one.
I know, if you buy a Note 5 (or S6) and want gob loads of memory you pay big bucks. You could also purchase a S5 Developer off of Samsung's site for 599.00 and get the luxury of a new phone plus developer, plus removable battery, plus additional storage.
just a few thoughts your way.
There's this too. Verizon Will Drop Phone Contracts, End Discounted Phones
Yup. No more contracts or contract pricing as of this coming Tuesday. Only options for phone purchase from VZW will be EDGE or full price. If you want a subsidized phone price point, get to the store tomorrow (although it doesn't seem like ANYONE wants more contract... lol)
And, the retail note 4, discontinued...
Sadly the development has never been great for the DE. Lack of root for the retail version has killed an otherwise amazing phone for tinkerers and Nandroiders.
If I am wrong let me know and I'll try to get one used... but until then I stick with my extremely versatile note 2!
Note 5 is a no go for 2 simple reasons: SD and fixed battery.
Samsung Will Feel It.
Telemachus said:
Sadly the development has never been great for the DE. Lack of root for the retail version has killed an otherwise amazing phone for tinkerers and Nandroiders.
If I am wrong let me know and I'll try to get one used... but until then I stick with my extremely versatile note 2!
Note 5 is a no go for 2 simple reasons: SD and fixed battery.
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Click to collapse
Yup, Note 5 looks great, but from a distance...
And that's why I picked up a 2nd Note 4, found one, at a Best Buy, who states their inventories are depleting and they are discontinued in their systems. So, as soon as they are all sold out, no more. I had to run to a store far away from my home to get a new one. Yup, it's retail, but of course has the two main features people want. And I'm holding on to it for right now, not sure what I'll do with it.
Samsung most definitely does not have em, and whatever Verizon has they REFUSE to sell one at full price walking out of the store with them - poop-heads
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But Samsung will feel it, for sure - Hmmm, apple-wanna-bees, maybe we'll call them "Sample", yup, we tried it, doesn't taste so good anymore...
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On a final note, and what might be regarded by most of you as a "Good luck with that.." attempt - this, is the reason I am named "Anti-Cloud"
I would like to start a petition, in which we, the users of phones, regain 100% control if it's use, who has access to it, what's on it, and with full administrative access rights. I would like that to see the petition be forged into a bill and work it's way up to Washington and become law: it basically puts the business of communication devices on a simple one-to-one basis, a simple business model - which in the end, if a person pays for phone service to make calls, send texts, run apps, browse web etc, that the business relationship is solely between "you" and the carrier - meaning you pay for the service and the carrier can only conduct business scoped to making phone calls sending receiving data / text - no collection of whereabouts, providing location services (which is BS anyway), nor using the phone by any means to sell more services - a simple contract more or less, that all other business conducted, whether the user knows about it or not, is prohibited by law - the phone is a phone, it is not a platform for a carrier / 3rd parties to conduct further business (or the government for that matter).
History / Background - A purchased computer, by any of us, is for the most part, an honest transaction - meaning once we purchase that computer, which may have an operating system / software on it, it is free to do with what we want. We, the user, can decide to employ administrative access to that PC, even go as far as completely remove an operating system. Note, not sure about apple, but with Microsoft, although a bit harder to do with Windows 8/10 etc, the user can still remove virtually anything they don't want in that operating system let alone they can fully preserve administrative access even in the midst of an update of operating system / software...
Phones, are not that way today. The phone's calling / data / text service is a basic service, yet there are many hands / fingers / services nested with a phone as it leaves the confines of the carrier, with the intent to solicit, collect, and control the business conducted of (on) that device - I want an end to it.
You realize that when you walk out of a carrier with your new phone it is not just a phone you can make calls with, send texts, browse the web - using Samsung / Verizon as a base example: It has Verizon, Samsung, Google, and the Government's fingers into it. The device is a platform to do "further" business with, on top of which we, the user, do not have full administrative rights to.
1. I seek to defund the business models (fingers), i.e. amputate - 3rd parties abilities to do ANY business (collect data, or sell) on devices that does not have to do with making phone calls, sending texts, using data (sending / receiving data between the carrier's towers and the device - the raw service, what you pay for)
2. Give the user FULL unadulterated administrative rights to the device with ability to remove ANY / ALL components / software / drivers - and that no non-essential-software shall be "baked-in" to the point that if removed the device becomes in-operable - i.e. NFL football, google maps. The device's ability to make calls, send texts, consume data must be independent of ALL other applications. Essentially, there would be no need for rooting / jail breaking as the phone's will come that way.
3. Location services can be disabled / removed and are completely free / untethered from the hardware GPS and or the phone's ability to operate - a consumer can, at will, have the ability to remove ALL location features even up to the point of removing drivers which employ the hardware GPS - if they so choose. And, a carrier / 3rd party cannot make the claim of greater accuracy (as that is a lie, complete lie) - using the hardware GPS is by far the most accurate and ALL software models at a minimum should be required to have the ability employ the hardware GPS only with no transmission of location datum to a 3rd party / carrier without the expressed consent of the user / knowledge there of.
4. Device manufactures and carriers MUST give the user a complete freedom from cloud service and or provide an equal means of storing / transmitting user's private data without the intervention / knowledge of a 3rd party provider / carrier - the user must have the choice as to whether to use the cloud or not. No carrier / manufacturer can put a device in service which forces the consumer to use cloud services. and the carrier / 3rd party provider MUST allow the user to move data off / on to the device in a sealed vacuum of privacy.
5. Operating System Providers MUST provide an operating system in which the user can have FULL administrative access to do all the above while maintaining a secure model - meaning carriers / manufactures cannot debilitate a secure service or claim the device is insecure if administrative access is gained by the local user. Secure models must be independent of administrative access - just like a PC!! It is an excuse, 100%, if a provider / carrier insists that security has been compromised if administrative access is gained.
This is a start -
Now, having said that. in a reasonable fashion, a carrier / 3rd party should have the ability to deem a device secure (or not) by virtue of a minimum set of requirements that deem the device safe to transact financial / secure private business - i.e. the user could remove components that defund a device's security model making it vulnerable for attack etc. carriers and 3rd party providers in order to maintain a secure model should be allowed to prevent an application / certain services from transacting if the device is not compliant. We see this in an application like Soft-Card etc. although I contend that a user gaining root access does not constitute a breach in security - if it does, it is because the operating system (or software) is weak - see #5, and providers must ensure that they can achieve a secure platform with administrative access.
any takers?
Ummmm...
Good luck with that!
lexbian said:
Yup. No more contracts or contract pricing as of this coming Tuesday. Only options for phone purchase from VZW will be EDGE or full price. If you want a subsidized phone price point, get to the store tomorrow (although it doesn't seem like ANYONE wants more contract... lol)
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Just to clarify, from what I've been reading if you are on a VZW legacy plan with a 2 year contract you can stick with it and get contract upgrades like normal going forward. I have not seen anything official from VZW on this, but that's the word on the street and I really hope it proves to be true. I still have unlimited data on 4 of my 5 family plan lines and if they steal the contract upgrade subsidies from me I'll be f*#king pissed since it's a value of around $20/month per line.
On a side note I'm looking for a DE Note 4. If anyone has any leads let me know. Those things are like leprechauns these days.
If someone here with a DE wants to move to a different phone I have a contract upgrade available with Verizon so I can trade you any new phone for a DE Note 4.
vmod32 said:
Just to clarify, from what I've been reading if you are on a VZW legacy plan with a 2 year contract you can stick with it and get contract upgrades like normal going forward. I have not seen anything official from VZW on this, but that's the word on the street and I really hope it proves to be true. I still have unlimited data on 4 of my 5 family plan lines and if they steal the contract upgrade subsidies from me I'll be f*#king pissed since it's a value of around $20/month per line.
On a side note I'm looking for a DE Note 4. If anyone has any leads let me know. Those things are like leprechauns these days.
If someone here with a DE wants to move to a different phone I have a contract upgrade available with Verizon so I can trade you any new phone for a DE Note 4.
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@vmod32 I sent you a PM.
madchainsawer said:
Get a unlocked phone off of tmobile and you can have removable back battery and sd card and you can put a verizon chip and root.
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
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Not to repeat what you just said but are you saying that if I get an unlocked phone designed for T-Mobile that I can run it on the Verizon network as long as I put the Verizon sim card in? That would be awesome as I want to buy a note 4 developer edition but can't find one.
burbank said:
Not to repeat what you just said but are you saying that if I get an unlocked phone designed for T-Mobile that I can run it on the Verizon network as long as I put the Verizon sim card in? That would be awesome as I want to buy a note 4 developer edition but can't find one.
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No - this doesn't work as Verizon has to white list the device for it to work on their network.
So is it just sadistic that this page is still up?
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/ET-N910VMKEVZW
Wondering if you guys care about android pay. Its just as easy for me to swipe my card as it is to swipe my phone I don't care about this feature and it scares me to be honest what are your opinions ?
Unlikely I will be using it. I haven't seen many places around here that even accept tap to pay, so it's unlikely android pay will be supported
I won't use it.
Why?
Because Google refuse to release it outside of the states (basically)
5+yrs & we still ain't even got the Google Wallet App, never mind Android Pay.
Yeah I haven't seen anywhere to use to use it
I'll be using it.
I really could care less about Android pay.
I've used wallet in the past, nice but unnecessary. My cards all have tap and pay so there's no difference in pulling out a card vs my phone. In fact it's faster to just pull out the card. I could see in the future making credit cards obsolete or unnecessary to carry but at this point it's not fast enough and I don't care enough to change.
domyou have access to it? and why so?
I will never use it thanks to my stratos card.
Cash all the way.
Electronic systems just profile you (yes tinfoil crazy, but why not avoid it) and most importantly they are not reliable.
I use it all of the time already. Love it!
Not unless they ever allow it on rooted/modded phones. Used to use Google wallet all the time until pay forced update to continue to work, but then it doesn't. Much rather have root. Google can miss out on the extra data mining from me then.
I love it and will use it. right now there is still more places that don't accept it then do. but once everywhere eventually accepts it... I plan on basically replacing my wallet. lol. I agree its annoying that it doesn't work with root.. but with a nexus phone being so bloat free and such a clean experience I'm hoping ill be able to survive without rooting. we'll see how long that lasts.
Why be scared? The biggest reason to use it is not convenience, but security. Stores never get your credit card info when you use Android Pay. All these data breaches stores have had where credit card info is stolen... you are immune to that if you pay with Android Pay. That is why I will be using it.
This was my main reason to use it. Luckily chip and pin will be required by the end of the year here in the states, so that stolen card info is less useful.
My first exposure to NFC payment was in Dec 2011 with the Galaxy Nexus and I've used NFC alot over the years. Funny thing is, in downtown Chicago, there are fewer places that accept NFC payments now (i.e. CVS Apple Pay incident) than there were in Dec 2011. So for me, without places to use it and without it gaining more traction in the area I live, I won't be using it.
Yes, it is going to get me the chicks since they will think I'm from the future.
Will this work in Canada?
They should have gone with MST like Sammy.
Won't be using it as I have yet to see a store in this area that has it. Rural area and don't even see apple pay or anything like that around here
I use it wherever I can, but there are very few places that have nfc. I actually prefer using it versus my cards.
Hey everyone. I just wanted to spread the word that credit card-specific tap and pay apps might be more easily fooled than Android Pay when it comes to using it on a rooted device. I just set up CapitalOne Wallet. Originally it detected my rooted device and refused to work, but after installing and enabling RootCloak (xposed module), the setup process went smoothly. I haven't tried buying anything yet, so I'll update this when I have more to report, but it's definitely something to be aware of.
UPDATE: I tried to pay for something at a Wegman's. The app detected that there was an NFC pay station there, but it was not able to communicate with it. I'll try more later.
UPDATE2: I realized that the reason why Wegman's didn't work was because I had disabled my phone PIN lock. I turned it back on and successfully bought something from a vending machine. It works! Wooo! Now to go back to never, ever using it.
UPDATE3: I factory reset my phone, and the app will no longer allow me to add the card, even with rootcloak. Without rootcloak, I get a "no rooted devices allowed" message. With rootcloak, I get a "some unknown error happened, please try again" message that I've gotten consistently over several days. Maybe someone from CapitalOne is reading this thread.
UPDATE4: I got a strange email today informing me that my card was disabled for mobile payments at my request. I made no such request. However, I went in to the Wallet app, reenabled it for mobile payments with rootcloak on, and it worked perfectly. So....maybe rootcloak does still work and there was just some sort of issue on their end? Either that, or some hacker really doesn't want me using mobile payments. We'll see whether or not it actually works when I try to buy something.
SwipeYours is a good HCE but you need to know your card dump
Might pickup a capital one card because of this. Chase pay is inbound I heard too. Any other cc tnp apps out now?
rayjr13 said:
Might pickup a capital one card because of this. Chase pay is inbound I heard too. Any other cc tnp apps out now?
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I'm not sure. I just checked to see if Discover had one, and it doesn't look like they do.
ha no. Discover pay would be a stretch for fathomable. Finally used Apple Android Pay on Turbo 2 though. Much cleaner interface but seriously wish there was a solution for unlocked users smh.
---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------
Side note I kinda think the goal may be to get another device probably a wearable that is not rooted or bootloader unlocked and use android pay with that is that a possibility or are all wearables companion to the point that they require a phone to function for android pay? I assume the coming cellular wearables would be able to function autonomously.
Has anyone tried Tapp? Its a simple demo app built on the SimplyTapp service, which seems to be a shared back-end w\ SDK, for developers looking to write HCE functionality into their own apps (e.g., a retail chain that wants to add NFC functionality into their loyalty card app; e.g., make it easy for the Starbucks app to use NFC instead of scanning a barcode).
Using the "SwipeYours" profile you can add in any card data, assuming you have access to a mag stripe reader to read your VISA card magstripe data.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tapp
EDIT: I see now this is the same as the "SwipeYours" suggested by @liquidburns, which is also available as a bare-bones technical demo (e.g., without a fancy GUI, PIN lock on the app, cloud backup, etc):
http://blog.simplytapp.com/2014/01/host-card-emulation-series-swipeyours.html
Unfortunately, it would seem everything relying on a mag-stripe dump is going to be short lived, as most POS terminals that support NFC also support EMV chip, and thus will not accept the mag-stripe data from a card that also has an EMV chip.
rayjr13 said:
ha no. Discover pay would be a stretch for fathomable. Finally used Apple Pay on Turbo 2 though. Much cleaner interface but seriously wish there was a solution for unlocked users smh.
---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------
Side note I kinda think the goal may be to get another device probably a wearable that is not rooted or bootloader unlocked and use android pay with that is that a possibility or are all wearables companion to the point that they require a phone to function for android pay? I assume the coming cellular wearables would be able to function autonomously.
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Click to collapse
Wait, you can use apple pay on an android device? Is that a hack, or does apple let you?
Also, I'm not aware of any wearables that have NFC, so that wouldn't work in any of them that exist today. Also, all wearables (apple and android) are designed to be paired with a phone, and have extremely limited functionality without one.
DA6030 said:
Has anyone tried Tapp? Its a simple demo app built on the SimplyTapp service, which seems to be a shared back-end w\ SDK, for developers looking to write HCE functionality into their own apps (e.g., a retail chain that wants to add NFC functionality into their loyalty card app; e.g., make it easy for the Starbucks app to use NFC instead of scanning a barcode).
Using the "SwipeYours" profile you can add in any card data, assuming you have access to a mag stripe reader to read your VISA card magstripe data.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tapp
EDIT: I see now this is the same as the "SwipeYours" suggested by @liquidburns, which is also available as a bare-bones technical demo (e.g., without a fancy GUI, PIN lock on the app, cloud backup, etc):
http://blog.simplytapp.com/2014/01/host-card-emulation-series-swipeyours.html
Unfortunately, it would seem everything relying on a mag-stripe dump is going to be short lived, as most POS terminals that support NFC also support EMV chip, and thus will not accept the mag-stripe data from a card that also has an EMV chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I suspect that we have a while in the States before magnetic stripes become obsolete. Most places I shop at don't even have the chip readers (or they do, but the chip functionality isn't enabled yet) even though I think they technically have to by law at this point.
TheSt33v said:
Wait, you can use apple pay on an android device? Is that a hack, or does apple let you?
Also, I'm not aware of any wearables that have NFC, so that wouldn't work in any of them that exist today. Also, all wearables (apple and android) are designed to be paired with a phone, and have extremely limited functionality without one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that was a slip meant to say Android Pay. Never had that problem when it was Google Wallet. So much for successful brand marketing, Google.
Also I was referring to the line of devices like the pending LG Urbane LTE that are presented as autonomous with their cellular connections. Wonder how independent they will be. Why have LTE if you are pairing to another device still anyway? Just silly and more expensive on the data.
TheSt33v said:
True, but I suspect that we have a while in the States before magnetic stripes become obsolete. Most places I shop at don't even have the chip readers (or they do, but the chip functionality isn't enabled yet) even though I think they technically have to by law at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally true, but my point is that any merchants that are upgrading their payment terminals in 2015+ to support NFC, are almost certainly getting chip readers in the same upgrade. And, at least theoretically, these "pay by NFC without Android Pay" hacks only work on terminals that HAVE NFC and DO NOT HAVE chip readers, which is a rare combination I've only seen at the handful of big chains that were original Google Wallet launch partners (e.g., Jamba Juice, McDonalds). Everywhere else that I've seen NFC (e.g., Trader Joes, small businesses with Poynt devices) also has chip readers, and all new installations will likely have both.
rayjr13 said:
Sorry that was a slip meant to say Android Pay. Never had that problem when it was Google Wallet. So much for successful brand marketing, Google.
Also I was referring to the line of devices like the pending LG Urbane LTE that are presented as autonomous with their cellular connections. Wonder how independent they will be. Why have LTE if you are pairing to another device still anyway? Just silly and more expensive on the data.
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Click to collapse
Hmm. I didn't know that was a thing, or why someone would want such a thing.
Walmart pay lol?
DA6030 said:
Unfortunately, it would seem everything relying on a mag-stripe dump is going to be short lived, as most POS terminals that support NFC also support EMV chip, and thus will not accept the mag-stripe data from a card that also has an EMV chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update: So far, I've tried this at a couple merchants that have terminals with both EMV and NFC active (and are soft-rejecting swipes when a chip is available), and it works great with both my Chase VISA cards. According to SwipeYours developer, the rejection I feared (for using the wrong card transmission type) would be enforced by the card issuer, not the merchant, so YMMV with other banks.
Getting set up was easy, using this card reader ($12 w\ free Amazon prime shipping): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D3D3L8Y
I chose to plug the card reader directly into my phone with a USB OTG cable, it was recognized as an external keyboard, and 60 seconds later I confirmed everything worked on my office vending machine.
Liability shift
Technically its still up to banks to recognize fraudulent activity regardless of how you use your card. The bank can't blame you for not recognizing a well made and executed skimming device, which presents a higher chance of getting your personal information captured than using hce in my opinion. You have a higher chance of losing your credit card information through a fake marketing scam or the waitress at a diner than HCE.
TheSt33v said:
True, but I suspect that we have a while in the States before magnetic stripes become obsolete. Most places I shop at don't even have the chip readers (or they do, but the chip functionality isn't enabled yet) even though I think they technically have to by law at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I work in payment technology and I can shed a little light on this topic. There is no law requiring merchants to accept chip cards. There is legislation requiring card issuing banks to issue all new cards with chips and there is a liability shift for all merchants who continue accepting payment without adopting the chip technology meaning that merchants now run a higher risk of the bank withholding(retracting) payment due to chargeback because the banks no longer carry the liability for fraud protection in the case of a merchant who is not taking chip payment.
I am a salesperson so the technology side of my industry is only known from what I have gathered along the way.
That said, AFIK NFC payments do not involve chip data at this time and I would assume they won't for the foreseeable future. Mag strip, chip, and soft pay are simply 3 different ways of encrypting the same set of data(card#, Exp, and cardholder data) for transfer. This gets a little above my level of understanding but my assumption is that soft pay uses a similar encryption method as the chips do and my best guess as to why AP is as aggressive as it is about system mods is not so much to protect your card data, but to prevent cloning from being achieved easily.
If I am right, then I assume that we will soon see MSD removed from merchant terminals as an accepted protocol by way of security patches (updated every day at merchant batch), effectively rendering SwipeYours and the like, useless.
This might be a good compliment to SwipeYours for as long as it continues to work: Rhombus - Play Store